How The Baltimore Ravens ALMOST Joined the NFC East

[@xavier5297]

The "Jacksonville Jaguars vs Winning" rivalry is pretty lopsided.

[@animenopaawaa]

I'm curious on that history to be fairly honest. lol

[@someperson3883]

Winning just went back to back

[@marquan1976]

1999 They were unstoppable, if the Tennessee Titans didn't exist

[@someperson3883]

@@marquan1976 I bet Jacksonville wished they were still the Houston Oilers

[@sabgab]

Yeah but the Jets and Browns are pretty allergic to winning as well. LOL!

[@wcjohnson123]

Bill Musgrave said it best, " That game should not be played on a Sunday afternoon. Steelers vs Ravens should be played at a back alley at midnight."

[@andrewpadaetz5549]

This was from the NFL Network's Top 10 Rivalries (Steelers-Ravens was number 6-FYI number 1 is Giants-Eagles). PS I would have thought the objection would have come from the Cowboys as while geographically Dallas could easily switch with Carolina, no WAY Jerry Jones (and Clint Murchison before him) would have wanted to switch out of the NFC East, citing the long time rivalies with Washington, Philly and New York (and the old Tom Landry connection with the Giants).

[@lakebay972]

@@andrewpadaetz5549 Also note, NYC (1), Philly (4), DFW (5) and DC (9) are in the Top 10 Media Markets in the United States.

[@thestapler]

Could you imagine if the move went through and we got to see those early 2000's Eagles and Ravens teams play each other twice a season? Eagles vs Ravens would have probably became the new big rivalry in that alternate scenario.

[@psychopathyoutubeemployees280]

Now that I think about it, Art Modell didn't want to be in the same conference, let alone division with the Cleveland Browns for obvious reasons. Luckily, Pittsburgh and Cleveland weren't letting him off the hook.

[@cbdyna]

What kind of thinking is this? The new Browns owner (Lerner) was best firends with Modell, he was tight with Pitts owner and the NFL click forced Modell onto Baltimore to get him the most cash, so, he never was on any hook with them or anyone else that matters, except in the imagaintion of a peon fan who knows nothing.

[@rstreet5537]

It would make perfect sense DC Baltimore rivalry Philly and Baltimore could be a rivaly NY and Philly is already one I-95 division

[@MarloSoBalJr]

TV market blackouts. CBS and FOX would be pissed having either games simultaneously in such a short distance. It fairs better the way it is cos Baltimore is covered by CBS and Washington by FOX

[@rstreet5537]

@@MarloSoBalJr does it matter that both teams have played on the opposite of there normal channel or its still some red tape bs I thought this was supposed to be about ratings you will have more eyes on the TV in that market for those division games I look at the nfc north that's regional football

[@vincesmith2499]

Teams in the same market are always in opposing conferences: 49ers and Raiders, Rams and Raiders, Rams and Chargers, Jets and Giants, Redskins and Colts, and Commanders and Ravens. Two teams in the same conference typically play on the same network, and you can't really schedule both teams' games on the same network on the same week.

[@MarloSoBalJr]

​@@rstreet5537 Yes, it matters a lot. You can see (if you live in Maryland) the feud between the O's and Nats regarding the MASN broadcast of baseball since 2005. Besides that, the competition to grab the viewership of an area with 4+ million is not gonna work if both teams are playing in the same division OR conference.

[@lsmftymf]

As a Ravens fan, just glad everything worked out in the end.

[@lewis9702]

Me too! I love being in the AFC North, and love the Ravens-Steelers rivalry!

[@colinflynn1203]

@@lewis9702 I love the rivalry's we have in the AFCN, but man we would run the NFC East.

[@MarloSoBalJr]

​@@colinflynn1203 Talk about a cakewalk to the division title. The damn Steelers & Bengals just continue to find a way to screw us over 😂

[@jeffanderson3962]

Seahawks have made 3 SB appearances as NFC Champs which likely wouldn't have happened in the AFC with NE/Indy/Pit etc so it worked out for them as well

[@MarloSoBalJr]

No cap! '98-'03 Raiders; '04-'09 Chargers; '10-'15 Broncos '16-present Chiefs... No way in hell, the Seahawks even won the AFC West had things stayed the same pre-2002. Seattle going to the NFC was a blessing for that franchise's legacy

[@nickmontanabass]

Makes more sense than placing a team from the southwest in an East division

[@themedianman9712]

The word for the odd man out on the roller coaster buddy system is "dad".

[@bmoxley16]

As a redskins fan having the ravens in the division would be awesome as a person from Maryland the battle of the beltway is awesome both stadiums are super accessible and alot of houseolds are dived between the two I would have loved to see it twice a year

[@rockvilleraven]

It would have overshadowed the Cowboys and Redskins, or Ravens and Steelers.

[@DinnersOnSaturday]

It would have also resulted in losing the Cowboys/Redskins rivalry along with the Cowboys/Eagles and Cowboys/Giants rivalries as Dallas would have been moved to the NFC West along with Arizona. Today that wouldn't be such a big deal but back then it would have been.

[@DanStrayer]

F-cking Dan Snyder strikes again. Baltimore vs Washington would’ve been a great rivalry. Screw his tv market bs: he already has Philadelphia nearby and can survive just fine despite.

[@Coyotek4]

I suppose if Geography meant more than tradition, the current conferences would have Dallas in the NFC South, Carolina in the NFC East, Miami in the AFC South, Indianapolis in the AFC North, and Baltimore in the AFC East. (Not that this would help Kansas City any.)

[@psychopathyoutubeemployees280]

Thank goodness baseball and hockey owners are smarter, unIike football and basketball owners.

[@CTubeMan]

This unofficial Official Jaguar Gator 9 historian will remind everyone you made videos about the following: 1. How the NFL almost added a third conference. 2. Washington’s antics surrounding their game against Baltimore in 2000.

[@Donald38]

This unofficial link provider will provide links to the 2 videos the unofficial Official Jaguar Gator 9 historian just mentioned. 1: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3-ZeWCcbbpkgsk 2: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f6axZmOabZ2lldU

[@johnmanier7968]

Nearly 50 years earlier, the Baltimore Colts were placed in the old Western Conference, ensuring their home schedule wouldn’t basically duplicate Washington’s in the Eastern Conference. They had recently moved the Chicago Cardinals away from the Bears’ division for the same reason. So it was a no-brainer that Washington would veto putting the Ravens in the NFC East. And I’m sure Modell’s motives weren’t altruistic. The NFC East has long been the darling of TV networks.

[@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154]

The NFL actually changed their names to American and National in 1950...then idiotically went back to geographic names in 1953! Stupid is as stupid does!

[@TheAlfrulz]

I agree. These moves aren't done primarily for geography, or altruism. Money makes the world go round. I'm sure Jerry Jones squashed any talk of being switched out of the highly marketable northeast, for the smaller market South division.

[@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154]

@@TheAlfrulz - You can thank Tex Schramm for starting all this.

[@djohns808]

From my understanding, despite the proximity, the NFL considers Baltimore and Washington two different TV markets. I do remember seeing something on TV around this time when they were trying to figure out the divisions about how some things could not work with the TV contracts the way they were. I am interested to see how the NFL will be when every game is a free agent. I think it'll really change things.

[@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154]

Have no idea why the FCC thinks that Baltimore should have their own TV and Radio stations when San Jose is FARTHER away from San Francisco.

[@LogoAttitude]

My proposed move of the Baltimore Ravens to the NFC East combined with all games being free agents could still allow the Ravens and Commanders to be seen every week throughout the whole BaltWash area. They could take turns being on CBS and Fox every week, except when playing each other or in primetime.

[@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154]

@@LogoAttitude - Alright, another KZbinr mentioned this but, West Pacific: Seattle, San Jose, Los Angeles, Anaheim West Southwest: Las Vegas, Arizona, Denver, Kansas City West Midwest: Dallas, Houston, Tennessee, New Orleans West Central: Minnesota, Green Bay, Chicago, Detroit East Southeast: Miami, Tampa Bay, Jacksonville, Atlanta East Coastal: Carolina, Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia East Northeast: Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Pittsburgh East Atlantic: Buffalo, New England, New York, New Jersey There. Now shut the bleep up!

[@sr7312]

It would make a lot more geographical sense for the Ravens to be in the AFC East, the Colts in the North, and Miami in the South.

[@marcus813]

Miami being in the AFC East does make sense from a cultural standpoint, though. Most of Florida is Southern only in a geographical sense.

[@Marylandbrony]

Miami is technically is the eastern part of the country. I just don’t get why when some people say “Eastern U.S” they mean an area roughly between Washington D.C and Boston.

[@mjwatts1983]

@@marcus813 Further north you go in FL, the more south you are Further south you go in FL, the more north you are I-4 is generally the dividing line between the two Floridas

[@marcus813]

@@mjwatts1983 I thought the dividing line would've been closer to Ocala, but I have to add that I'm not sure how culturally Southern we can consider Jacksonville at this point.

[@big8dog887]

For most of the first 30 years that the AFC East existed, the Dolphins were the flagship team of the division, much as the Dallas Cowboys were the flagship team of the NFC East. At the time, the Bills, Patriots, and Jets always had the Dolphins as one of those circle-on-the-calendar games, so although your scenario makes more sense geographically, it never would have flown from a fan/business interest perspective. Of course, since the realignment, had it gone the way you suggest, we now know that those other three teams wouldn't have missed much, but we didn't know that at the time

[@x-90]

Ravens vs Philly vs Washington would make a good rivalry though.

[@mkendra29]

The Ravens' non-move - and Seattle doing it instead - started off a golden age of Seahawks football as they went into the new conference with Hasselbeck, Alexander, Walter Jones and company coming into their prime shortly thereafter (and Super Bowl winner after some re-tooling with Carroll in '14). Getting out of the AFC West and going to a division where they only had to worry about a declining Greatest Show on Turf team was a great accident for them and I say that as a 49ers fan.

[@LogoAttitude]

I think Seattle was going to move regardless of what the Ravens did. The AFC had four teams in the Mountain and Pacific Time Zones at the time while the NFC had only two. One of the AFC teams needed to move to the NFC to balance that, and Seattle was chosen because they were not an AFL franchise like the Broncos, Chargers, or Raiders. Likely then the Panthers, the youngest NFC team, would have moved to the AFC if the Ravens went to the NFC.

[@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154]

@@LogoAttitude - The Seahawks were chosen because they couldn't OUTPOLITIC Alex Spanos since there were scenarios that had the Chargers in the NFC West. The NFL had the owners say who their biggest rival was before coming up with the scenarios. Al Davis said nothing, while the other four teams obviously said the Raiders. But of course, if you are Al Davis, you'd rather have San Diego anyway because it's the BATTLE OF CALIFORNIA! The Broncos and especially the Chiefs were Iike whatever, since they didn't really care about Seattle and San Diego compared to the Raiders, so they obviously decided to respect Al Davis wanting to keep San Diego over Seattle.

[@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154]

@@LogoAttitude - The Panthers were NOT going to the AFC if the Ravens/Browns 1.0 returned to the NFC! Did you forget that Houston was already going to be AFC #16? Did you fail kindergarten?

[@LogoAttitude]

@@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154 the moves of the Ravens and the Seahawks together to the NFC would have required an NFC team to move to the AFC - and Carolina would have moved as the youngest NFC team

[@LogoAttitude]

@@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154 So yeah, this should have been the alignment in 2002: AFC: E: BUF, NE, NYJ, PIT N: CIN, CLE, IND, KC S: CAR, JAX, MIA, TEN W: DEN, HOU, OAK, SD NFC: E: BAL, NYG, PHI, WAS N: CHI, DET, GB, MIN S: ATL, NO, STL, TB W: ARI, DAL, SF, SEA The Cowboys and Rams would have swapped divisions in 2016 after the latter returned to LA

[@fantasticvoyage262]

I wish all the NFC games were on FOX. And all the AFC games were on CBS. Just like it used to be.

[@americangiant1003]

Times change Aaron. I actually like this current TV scenario that will start with this ‘22-‘23 season, the first year of this new 10 year TV contract. In the early 90s when NBC had the AFC conference and CBS the NFC, I am sure the peacock 🦚 station would have loved schedule “flexing.” Especially during this era, when the AFC had an almost 15 year losing streak in the Super Bowl before Elway and the Broncos won back to back titles in 1997 and ‘98. The only benefit for NBC at that time circa 1992, was they paid the league tens of millions less each season, than CBS for the AFC. Now I think in this current TV contract both CBS and Fox *equally* pays $1.5 to $2 Billion a season each for the mostly Sunday afternoon games.

[@fantasticvoyage262]

@@americangiant1003 I hate having AFC games on FOX. And NFC games on CBS. It makes finding the games more complicated. And how did NBC end up with back to back Super Bowls? When the Cowboys won back to back, both of those Super Bowls was on NBC. And they were an inferior network to CBS and FOX. And I know times change. But that doesn't mean it's for the better.

[@americangiant1003]

@@fantasticvoyage262 I could be wrong (if so someone here can correct) but I think I read somewhere that SB in early 1992, was supposed to air on NBC. However since CBS was also showing the ‘92 Winter Olympics as well starting a week or so later, they decided to trade up and broadcast the Original NBC scheduled one in ‘92. While NBC got SB 27 aka the Cowboys first blowout of the Bills at the Rose Bowl in Jan. ‘93. SB 28 since it was the end of that then long term tv contract was “auctioned” off as an 1 time only deal. NBC won that bid to that broadcast January 94 game. The Cowboys won again for back to back titles. Again I think from my understanding is that how it explains in the early 90s, why NBC showed 2 straight SBs. And finally back to the topic Aaron. You probably a millennial era born adult born in the ‘80 or ‘90s. In 1994 when Fox got the NFC TV package there was outrage by some viewers that since they was brand new broadcasting sports(Fox only started in 1987 as a network and without getting both the NFL and soon after the main MLB package would have probably been long gone by now) And then starting in the ‘98-‘99, some long time AFC fans not thrilled of the switch from NBC to CBS as well. Yet after a short while NFL fans adjusted to an once in a generation change in TV coverage. Times change Sir. If you are a NFL fan, you will adjust.

[@fantasticvoyage262]

@@americangiant1003 I can't help it when I was born. I hated NBC when they had the AFC rights. And I dislike them still the same today. They put so much annoying clutter on the screen it makes it distracting to watch the game. Some of the same unnecessary junk graphics happen on the other networks too. But NBC takes it a step further. I liked FOX back when they first aquired rights. They were the first to do all the little things that made the games so much better to watch. I liked turning on the TV without having to wait 5 minutes to see the score like all the other networks. And their pregame show was so much better. And they had far superior broadcasters. Even if I adjust, that still doesn't mean the telecasts are presented any better than what they used to be.

[@americangiant1003]

@@fantasticvoyage262 Aaron while I personally don't like Fox TV Owner Rupert Murdoch conservative views (that is for another discussion)I do give him tons of credit for 1 thing. Murdoch and his team brought the NFL into the 21st Century with the so called 'score bug" all through the game. Not to mention other standard graphics now standard in every NFL game. Thus now every sports broadcast in America and Worldwide has been modernized almost 30 years later after Fox TV first got the NFC rights to the NFL. FYI. Technically ESPN was the first station anywhere to use the "scoreboard" full time on screen for the 1994 USA Hosted FIFA World Cup Soccer Tournament as an "experiment." However Mudroch had made Fox the first to use the score bug on a permanent basis. So Fox TV did revolutionized and bring the biggest changes to the entire sports broadcasting industry since the switch from Black & White to Color TV 30 years earlier in the Mid 1960's.

[@jbj7599]

With MLB having 14/16 team conferences didn't make a schedule problem, splitting it at 15 made them change the way the schedule is made. Sucked as a Brewers fan in the 6 team NL central, but it worked

[@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154]

@Kevin Green - It's all the SAME thing! In fact, the NFL was stupid to use that name as their governing body. It should have been Major League Football, then you would have the AFL and NFL instead of AFC and NFC.

[@MikeyKaos716]

I was wondering if someone was going to mention this, even if I'm 9 months late to this party. MLB having a 14/16 split back then made sense. It was before the advent of interleague play, so, you either had the imbalance in order to have an even number (as in multiple of 2) of teams in each league, or you had a team taking a series off in each league because of the odd numbers. Interleague play, and making it a regular part off the schedule, made the 3x5x2 MLB alignment uses now work.

[@rockvilleraven]

I'm also glad both the Commanders and the Ravens are in separate conferences. I watch the Ravens most Sundays on CBS.

[@dchang11]

The Commanders and Ravens are technically in the same market, so both teams should be in separate divisions. I see a lot of Washington fans in northern Maryland. Baltimore-Washington is like New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles markets.

[@rockvilleraven]

@@dchang11 Washington is a secondary market for the Ravens, they do have a DC radio affiliate station, but their flagship 98 Rock in Baltimore puts out a blow touch signal on the car radio to most of the DC area, unlike 630AM WSBN

[@reverend_wintondupree]

Though not divisional, the Ravens-Titans also developed a strong rivalry during the 00s that would not have been possible had they jumped conferences. And while they also weren't divisional foes, sustaining the Colts-Ravens rivalry was appreciated by NFL fans and made for some memorable games.

[@someperson3883]

He literally said the Ravens and Jags were in the same division in 2000 and 2001

[@reverend_wintondupree]

@@someperson3883 I didn't reference anything about the Jaguars.

[@someperson3883]

@@reverend_wintondupree I meant Titans

[@reverend_wintondupree]

@@someperson3883 I should have added their rivalry post 2001. All of their games but 1 from 2002-2010 was dexided by less than a touchdown.

[@psychopathyoutubeemployees280]

Ravens vs. Titans was once Browns vs. Oilers.

[@pensfanga]

Modell probably wanted to save on travel costs.

[@fantasticvoyage262]

You never touched on how easily or difficult the Seahawks willingness to move to the NFC was.

[@MarloSoBalJr]

Seems fairly easy and better off in the Seahawks favor. They stuck in the AFC West they'd never have a chance at winning that division

[@fantasticvoyage262]

@@MarloSoBalJr But at the time no one could have predicted that.

[@MarloSoBalJr]

​@@fantasticvoyage262 I dunno. The Seahawks weren't all that good for the first 35 years they were an AFC team. Moving to the NFC in 2002, the only threats they had were the 49ers. Rams were reeling after 2003 & the Cardinals... are the Cardinals 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@MartinGorski]

I think when the divisions were realigned that Baltimore should be in the AFC East with NY Jets, NE, and Buffalo. And Indy should be in the AFC North with PGH, CLE, and CIN. While Miami would go to the AFC South with JAC, HOU, and TEN. If THAT would have happened I think different rivalries such as IND and PGH or even BAL and NE would have been fun to watch. JAC would still have their rivalry with winning!

[@mayduck1]

Martin Gorski as a Dolphins fan I would have loved the realignment in the AFC South as that would have prevented the Dolphins from becoming frozen fish sticks when they have to play at New England and Buffalo and New Jersey in December and January plus the old Baltimore Colts used to play in the AFC East so that would be a good match.

[@johndorsey931]

To me Miami is another Dallas situation. Geographically the move makes sense, like moving Dallas to the NFC South or West. But you lose some great rivalries in the process.

[@MartinGorski]

@@johndorsey931 I agree with rivalry…however, has Miami been relevant in the nfl the last 20 years? Unfortunately NE has owned that division. Buffalo is getting better and the jets are team in the AFC.

[@johndorsey931]

@@MartinGorski The dominance of the Patriots is certainly an outlier that throws rivalries out of whack. I hope that's changing and we're seeing a return to a more normal situation. Maybe the AFC East won't be competitive every year, but I hope one team won't have a stranglehold on the division the way the Pats did and that the rivalries can be re-energized. I lived outside of Boston for many years when the Patriots were awful. They were probably the worst franchise in the league. So I was glad to see them do well. But I also think it's good to see a reemergence of the Bills and hopefully the Dolphins too. I'm not sure the poor Jets will ever figure things out.

[@tonyduckett5315]

it would be a bad move for Miami to leave the East. Giving up three longtime rivalries and starting a new division rivalry with the Jags will not live up to the hype. And the winner of the two would still have to deal with New England, Indy and Pittsburgh. And Philly, New York and Washington would fight to keep Dallas in the East.

[@oowoozee]

Geographically speaking, the Ravens in the NFC east makes more sense than the Cowboys. How the NFL ever considered labelling Dallas as 'East' is beyond me.

[@lavanderwilliams794]

You're totally right on that one. I'm from Philly, but live in NJ. At least I can watch the Giants if I go up the turnpike, the Commanders if I go down 95, and the Eagles ( including the 15min walk to the bus stop) 1 hour. The Ravens would've been great in the NFC East So what would I want to fly to Dallas for a game?

[@TheSonicsean]

Geographically yes, historically no.

[@freezer8530]

It all had to do with rivalries at the time, as Dallas had rivalries vs. Washington, Philadelphia, and New York (Giants). Otherwise, the division alignments (geographically speaking) would've probably had Carolina in the NFC East and Dallas in the NFC South ... although at that time, the Rams were in St. Louis; so maybe St. Louis would've then been put in the NFC South with Dallas being put in the NFC West.

[@novanebula8004]

I've been saying this for years

[@diehardnygiantsfan6569]

Phoenix/Arizona used to be in the East as well

[@cjs121675]

As a Cleveland fan- I hate the Baltimore-Pittsburgh attention to me because that should have been Cleveland v Pittsburgh on steroids- I have been a Cleveland Browns fan my entire life since 1981- and I can see why it became it did- it became what Cleveland and Pittsburgh was in the day. I was devastated in 1995 when the move was announced because the Browns were beloved in Ohio and losing the team sucked. I had to comment- as a Browns fan- and also I LOVE your channel- I love learning football history as a football fanatic- my grandpa taught me the game in the early 80s and I love learning things I may not know about football!!! Keep it up!!!

[@freddyvidz]

I wish they had. I would like to see a NFL division shake-up.

[@johne6106]

Love your channel! Doing a great job

[@joshuaperez1999]

Spoiler Alert: The Seahawks change conferences

[@shruggzdastr8-facedclown]

@This channel's owner: If you haven't already made one, that is, how about doing a video on the briefly-lived CFL franchise in Baltimore (the Stallions -- who won a Grey Cup in their final season before relocating to somewhere in Canada) back in the mid '90s just before the arrival of the Ravens?

[@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154]

Montreal to be exact.

[@shruggzdastr8-facedclown]

Ah, yes, the Alouettes, eh?!

[@WaltGekko]

Speaking of crazy stuff: Few people know about this because it only appeared in a small blurb long after the fact in USA TODAY, but when the Eagles almost moved to Phoenix following the 1983 season, it was noted in that blurb if that had happened, instead of moving to The Meadowlands for the 1984 season, the Jets would have instead moved to Philly to replace the Eagles (this was only averted because at the last minute, Norman Braman stepped in to buy the Eagles from Leonard Tose, whose gambling problems forced him to sell the team after Tose had originally agreed to sell the team to a group that would have moved the Eagles to Phoenix for the 1984 season). This suggests had that actually happened, what would have instead wound up happening was Leon Hess would have taken over ownership of the Eagles while the Jets would have been the team that moved to Phoenix, and with that, a likely move to the AFC West with the Chiefs likely forced to move to the AFC Central in that scenario (or the Seahawks move to the NFC West and either the Falcons or Saints moving to the AFC Central or AFC East with in that scenario the Bills moving to the AFC Central if the Falcons moved to the AFC East). This one should have a video done on it.

[@jab1289]

Maybe they change the name from the Jets to the Scorpions or something.

[@psychopathyoutubeemployees280]

Sadly, seeing how politically driven these division realignments are, I'd probably say that no division realignment would have taken place.

[@brandond5963]

As a ravens fan this would actually have been really cool. 2 of our 3 division opponents would be within driving distance from baltimore making it really easy to go to away games

[@Acrocanthosaurus]

My Seahawks moving to the NFC is one of my favorite things.

[@toddcouture4001]

I miss the AFC West as a Seahawks fan

[@Acrocanthosaurus]

@@toddcouture4001 You're getting your wish somewhat this year. During something they're calling the Arms Race.

[@MarloSoBalJr]

Without a doubt for you guys. That AFC West -- even to this day -- is a trench warfare that the Seahawks would have come up short each time BUT going to the NFC West in '02, your only competition was... the 49ers?

[@Acrocanthosaurus]

@@MarloSoBalJr I consider our time in the AFC as our time in the minor leagues. Didn't do as well as we would have liked but it made us ready for the majors.

[@Acrocanthosaurus]

@@MarloSoBalJr But seriously, you really think the Chargers and Raiders are more dangerous than the Rams and Cardinals?

[@davidcobb2693]

Art Modell was given a $3 million "incentive" to move the original Cleveland Browns to the AFC and Old Man Rooney of the Steelers didn't want to be left out of receiving free money.

[@chuckwest7045]

I'm not saying that the narrator's wrong but I don't remember ever hearing that the Ravens might be moved to the NFC. From what I recall it was always going to be the Seahawks who changed conferences. I do remember hearing that the Ravens might be in the AFC South with the Colts being in the North. That was about it. The realignment of 2002 went along rather smoothly when compared to the one in 1970.

[@georgeblangfordjr.1771]

Remember the 2011-2012 NHL Season were the new Winnipeg Jets the 🏒 team used to be called the Atlanta Thrashers. They played the Eastern Conference's Southeast Division and play against teams within their own Conference and against future Western Conference and Central Division rivals for one time only in the 2011/2012 NHL Season. Did not play them in the 2012/2013 NHL Season due to the shortened season after the Lockout. When the Jets play against teams not just the Southeast Division but the entire Eastern Conference. When the NHL had a 6 team division format at the time with 3 Division for the Eastern and Western Conference & Until the 2011-2012 Winnipeg Jets move to the Western conference after the 2012-2013 NHL season.

[@paytonbyrd6578]

Dope content my guy..

[@FAITHandLOGIC]

I still think the Colts should've been in the AFC East and the Dolphins in the AFC South. We could've had Manning vs Brady 2-3 times a year. Geographically, what would have made the most sense would have been: Colts in the AFC North Ravens in the AFC East Dolphins in AFC South If the Ravens were in the AFC East, the Pats may not have dominated the division like they did.

[@MarloSoBalJr]

Without a doubt. Patriots dodged a bullet not having the Ravens twice per year.

[@benjaminboehl2425]

As a Raven fan and a resident of Maryland, I never heard this proposal. I did hear talk that the Ravens could have join the AFC South because of rivalry with Tennessee, Jacksonville and Indianapolis. Also Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati and Houston would have made up old AFC Central so Texans would have been traditional fit

[@mattmullins7369]

Now this is interesting for several reasons. I was 10 when the Ravens came to Bmore; and been a fan ever since. Now most of us were unaware of this, but ironically the running joke here has been (at least 2006) "what if the Ravens were in the NFC East?" We always thought that we would've ran roughshod over that Division w/ that Defense since the Division itself is a joke. Kyle Boller WASTED the prime years of that Defense! So it almost did happen? Lol. Love your vids bro. Keep up the great work!

[@shruggzdastr8-facedclown]

Depending upon which franchise would've been ejected from that division to accommodate the Ravens swapping conferences (the Cowboys being the best candidate given their being a geographical anomaly what with Dallas being decidedly more of a southern than eastern city), the one franchise in that division during that time period that might've been a challenge for the Ravens back then was the Coughlan-era NY Giants (the franchise that humbled the Bellechik-Brady Patriots and denied them not one, but two, additional Lombardi trophies)

[@mattmullins7369]

@@shruggzdastr8-facedclown Interesting take, given that the Ravens had already beaten the Giants before Coughlans arrival. I've always seen Dallas as more of a Southwest City. But I see your point there w/ the geography.

[@mattmullins7369]

@@shruggzdastr8-facedclown Then again, that would've been quite a clash in that Division. Guess we will never know.

[@jab1289]

Another fun fact: In 1960, Houston was almost the other NFL expansion team instead of Minnesota, but Craig Cullinan couldn't get a lease for a stadium in Houston. Minnesota went to the NFL, the Raiders became a reality, and the rest is history.

[@psychopathyoutubeemployees280]

Houston Oilers vs. Houston Roughnecks (or Gamblers)

[@vincesmith2499]

What do the Raiders have to do with any of this?

[@jab1289]

@@vincesmith2499 When the Vikings decided to join the NFL instead of the AFL, the Raiders replaced them (the Vikes were originally going to be an AFL team).

[@nikaoharbour6962]

Miami was too entrenched with their rivalry with Jets to leave

[@psychopathyoutubeemployees280]

Then they should consider themselves lucky that Robert Irsay is an 1st letter 19th letter twice 8th letter 15th letter 12th letter 5th letter! Otherwise, the Baltimore Colts would still be in the East instead of Miami.

[@scottybbadd]

There's no way Jerry Jones would've gone along with any move that would've put the Cowboys out of the NFC East

[@johndorsey931]

That was my thought too. Plus, the other NFC East teams wouldn't want to lose the rivalries with Dallas. I get that keeping the Cowboys in the East doesn't make sense geographically. But the rivalries are too important to the fans of all four NFC East teams. I think the NFL got the realignment largely correct. Moving the Colts, Falcons, Saints, and Cardinals made sense. Someone suggested swapping the Colts and Ravens. That probably would have worked too back then before the current rivalries between Balt and Pitt cemented. As the video notes, the rivalry between Balt and Clev was already there.

[@reedermh]

No matter how bad the entire division is, all four teams are top 10 media markets. Plus each team has a rivalry with the others. At day's end $$$ talks.

[@c.t.turner2123]

Geographically the Cowboys don't belong in the NFC East. It would make better sense if the Panthers and Cowboys trade divisions.

[@scottybbadd]

@@c.t.turner2123, I have proposed that, but I know that Jerry Jones would throw a conniption fit if it were proposed for real.

[@psychopathyoutubeemployees280]

@@reedermh - And if I was a Stalin, the Cowboys would be playing in Hartford instead!

[@jasonfire3434]

If I remember, when the Browns rejoined the league in 1999, part of the legal settlement included a provision that they had to be in the same division with the Bengals and Steelers. But for some reason I thought the Ravens also had to be in that division in the legal settlement. Either way it’s great for football that Baltimore was kept in the same division with CIN/CLE/PIT

[@Bruce12867]

I would have preferred Indianapolis to be in the AFC North, with the Ravens going to the AFC South, considering that Baltimore is south of the Mason-Dixon Line.

[@drewdixon5556]

@@Bruce12867 True but the real Mason Dixon line doesn't extend as far as Indiana. So the Colts are not technically either north or south of it.

[@teen_laqueefa]

INDY, CIN, CLE, BUFF (NORTH) RAVENS,NE,JETS,PITT (EAST) HOU,TEN,JAX,MIAMI (SOUTH) WESTERN DIVISION IS FINE

[@geebee6010]

We're the oldest team in the division and we have no affiliation with Paul Brown or Art Modell.

[@mspionage1743]

We are just missing the Oilers.

[@MikeJr9284]

It would have made more sense to have a team on the East Coast like Baltimore be in the NFC East. Even though I understand why the Cowboys are in the NFC East, it doesn't make sense geographically because Texas is nowhere near the East Coast.

[@FireballFlareblitz734]

It's like the Pittsburgh Pirates moving from the NL East to the NL Central when the divisions split from 2 to 3. Sure, it meant that a great rivalry with the Phillies was gone, but it just made sense

[@sirstewartwallace3917]

@@FireballFlareblitz734 Originally, the Braves were to have been in the NL Central but chose to be in the NL East as they wanted to develop a rivalry with the Marlins, causing the Pirates to go to the NL Central.

[@Garrett316]

More sense, yes. But, I’m glad the Ravens and Steelers play each other. Great games.

[@marcus813]

To be fair, finding the proper alignment with Texan franchises isn't the easiest thing to do.

[@KWCline91]

@@marcus813 only realistic way I see it is if the Cowboys were in the NFC South.

[@UserName-ts3sp]

id miss it tbh... the ravens are the continuation of the browns/steelers rivalry

[@deadend1041]

I wouldn't have cared even when we had the season tickets. I genuinely don't like the steelers I don't mean like to beat them I just don't like them I'd prefer if they went away. To be honest I'd like them to go the way the redskins went only change cities and move to the West Coast

[@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154]

Give this man a cookie.

[@psychopathyoutubeemployees280]

@@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154 [gives Chips Ahoy cookie to User Name]

[@jeffm9770]

To be honest Baltimore in the same conference with Philadelphia, Washington, and New York makes sense. But it would definitely kill some good rivalries.

[@matthewbanta3240]

Harrisburg PA is close enough to Baltimore that the CBS station is obligated to play all Ravens road games. Harrisburg is a lot closer to Philadelphia than it is to Pittsburgh. So I imagine that the Eagles would have been even more pissed off than the Steelers are if the Harrisburg Fox station had to start airing Ravens games. As a Ravens fan, it would have been interesting to see Donovan McNabb vs Ray Lewis, or Eli Manning vs Joe Flacco twice a year. Also, two free wins against Snyder would be nice. However I am glad that we got the Pittsburgh rivalry along with a better local TV situation

[@lawoflamont15]

that ravens/steelers rivalry would exist somewhat in the nfc east… as ravens/eagles

[@mikeybarboza3086]

Not gonna lie an NFC West of my 49ers, Rams, Cards, and Cowboys would be a MILLION times better than what we got

[@stryder414]

I’ll keep the perennially overrrated Cowboys over the often appropriately highly rated Ravens as a division rival.

[@okolo22000]

11:57 It was actually 25 years and the AFC😡!

[@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154]

And the uploader of this vid wonders why he's about as popular as Zennie62.

[@paulmiller4654]

Titans ravens was absolutely a rivalry

[@OfficialJaguarGator9]

I’m just talking from 1996-1999. In the 2000s (especially after that 2000 season), absolutely

[@paulmiller4654]

@@OfficialJaguarGator9 ah I thought you meant up to when Houston started. I forgot this takes a couple years to get going. Carry on

[@psychopathyoutubeemployees280]

Especially since it was Houston Oilers vs. Cleveland Browns 1.0 (stripped history or not).

[@wilhelmheinrich7502]

Rivalries are always circumstancial. Baltimore I’m the NFC East would have been awesome.

[@KWCline91]

If we were to be honest, I think the divisions need to be geographically based. Some of the divisions are confusing. It’s like the NL Central had six teams and the AL West having four teams. All you did was put the southern most NLC team to the ALW by way of geography and the divisions are even. In the case of the NFL, what needs to happen are two things. 1) BAL, IND, and MIA have a three-team swap per division. So therefore, Baltimore takes Miami’s spot in the East, Miami takes Indianapolis’ spot in the South, and Indianapolis fills Baltimore’s spot in the north. 2) Carolina and Dallas would swap divisions. Obviously, this would cause an uproar in Texas even though they are in two different conferences but there should be a rivalry like that. Plus, North Carolina is Eastern.

[@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154]

Sad thing is, the Brewers and Astros wouldn't have to switch leagues if the Kansas City Royals were moved back to the AL West in 1998. But this Bud is for you Selig wanted his Brewers in the NL, so, you know...

[@agentzeeda4421]

Man if we were in the NFC East we’d have been dominating that division for 3 decades atp 💀

[@jamesdulany2176]

Just as the city of Cleveland still hasn't forgiven Modell, we will never forgive Irsay. What Irsay did was a million times worse, as the Browns still got to keep their history (that we never wanted anyway). So, to say the Ravens didn't have any rivalries was flat out wrong.

[@jab1289]

No, it wasn't. Google Descendants of the Mayflower Colts. What Modell did was a lot worse. Irsay got caught up in someone else's (Rosenbloom's) problem.

[@psychopathyoutubeemployees280]

I hope you can still get the Colts name back from them someday. If you can figure out a way to get a sleeper agent to buy the Colts after you secretly cause a scandal for the Irsay's to force them out of the league, then you'll have your name back.

[@psychopathyoutubeemployees280]

@@jab1289 - There is no such article, lying 19th letter 1st letter 3rd letter 11th letter of 19th letter 8th letter 9th letter 20th letter!

[@MarloSoBalJr]

​@@psychopathyoutubeemployees280 We don't want it back. An entire generation has gone bye and the Ravens are OUR team. Indy can keep the Colts... and Irsay

[@Nyg5618]

Funny about that 99 AFV Central. The jags lost only 3 games including the playoffs. All three were to the Titans. Crazy.

[@ThomasSpooner-f7d]

Heres a fun idea for video this made me think about. You lovebthe little fun stories...how about Steve Everitt (Browns and Ravens Center) who was threatened with eitger fines or suspensions (i forget which or if it was both) if he kept wearing Browns stuff under his Ravens gear after the move

[@Jonesnaltitude]

Good stuff

[@patrickstogsdill74]

I mean geographically Baltimore does belong in either in the AFC East or NFC East

[@danimalman3]

Have we ever had a superbowl with the teams having the same type of mascots? Like the bird bowl? Or Cat bowl?

[@andrewross3523]

We had the Pirate Bowl, Buccaneers vs. Raiders, in 2003

[@psychopathyoutubeemployees280]

@@andrewross3523 - We now need the cancer bowl. Las Vegas Raiders vs. Dallas Cowboys.

[@seannetworkblogsandgames7504]

Crazy thing is the Ravens won the super bowl the very next season so I'm sure the fans felt they dodged a major pitfall there

[@spectrevampire]

And against the Giants, no less.

[@ericdunbar6230]

I always thought Baltimore should be in the AFC East, Miami in the AFC south and Indianapolis in the AFC north. Baltimore and New England would have been a great rilvery. But who knows why that don't happen. Then again there are a lot of Washington D.C. fans in Baltimore so the NFC East would have been good also.

[@psychopathyoutubeemployees280]

Baltimore and New England WERE division rivals...when the Colts were there. Too bad Robert Irsay was an 1st letter 19th letter twice 8th letter 15th letter 12th letter 5th letter that ruined the Colts, then came 1984...

[@ellarosenzweig2098]

Can you imagine a three way rivalry along the Northeast Corridor between Baltimore, New York and New England to mirror the rivalry between Washington, Philadelphia and New York? That would make for some VERY interesting train rides.

[@dchang11]

One of my college mates grew up in Northern Maryland, and he's a diehard Redskins fan, which surprised me a bit. Baltimore and DC is kind of the same market.

[@MarloSoBalJr]

​@@ellarosenzweig2098 The baseball side of things mirrors that. That would be an insane feud on Amtrak

[@sabgab]

DAMN couldn't you have found some clips where the Steelers prevailed on that particular play? That is very interesting.

[@brianhiedemansr2936]

How did the Seattle Seahawks get the ho ahead to move from the AFC West to NFC West

[@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154]

By way of the NFC West needing another team, plus Seattle's lack of political influence to outpolitic Alex Spanos, and yes, the Chargers almost became an NFC team in 2002.

[@MarloSoBalJr]

Because the Seahawks didn't have any merit for the first 35 years in the AFC. If anything, Seattle going to the NFC was a blessing for that franchise's legacy up to present day

[@shocktrauma85]

While part of me is glad the Ravens ended up in the AFC North (given our rivalries now), part of me will always wonder what could have been had we been an NFC East Team.

[@nikaoharbour6962]

I always wanted the NFC East or AFC South (for indy and titans) smh what could've been

[@nikaoharbour6962]

Us leaving cleveland is their beef NFL should've gave us an expansion team, *looks at Jacksonville*

[@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154]

@@nikaoharbour6962 - Or better yet, don't move the Colts to begin with!

[@MarloSoBalJr]

​@@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154 Should blame the Maryland Legislation in 1984 for not taking Irsay seriously

[@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154]

@@MarloSoBalJr - Both are to blame.

[@Merricat_likesu]

The weirdest thing about this is that Dan Snider had a good point.

[@Utuubuploader2012]

You should do one of these videos on Week 17, 2005 - that time Bill Belichick lost to the Dolphins on purpose so the Patriots could face the Jaguars instead of the Steelers, as evidenced by benching Brady so early, Flutie’s drop kick, and running a game-tying two-point conversion that had zero chance of working.

[@eromitlabhitw]

I'm a Ravens fan that never liked Art Modell.

[@Ghostrider6A]

If Baltimore went to the NFC, they would have played the Steelers in Super Bowl XLIII. That would have been interesting.

[@floodsterssportszone3814]

When you said Jaguars, I was so hoping you were gonna say Titans 😂

[@mayduck1]

I did not know the Ravens wanted to go into the NFC East thanks JaguarGator9 for the great info and who knows if this gas prices keep rising their could be some division movement so teams can save gas money. If gas prices were to go to $ 7.00 a gallon a team like Miami would love a home and home with the Jags instead flying to New England Buffalo and New Jersey.

[@marcus813]

I had no idea that the Jaguars were being seriously considered for the old NFC West. To this day, I don't understand how two clubs in the Deep South were in the old NFC West.

[@jpmnky]

They were putting expansion teams wherever they could to balance out division counts.

[@marcus813]

@@jpmnky It sure made travel for those in the old NFC West pure hell. Thank goodness the current NFC West's footprint isn't as unwieldy.

[@djohns808]

The old NFC West came out of the old Coastal Division. The NFL thought it'd be a good idea to put teams in a division that were in coastal cities no matter what coast that was. 😬

[@jeffanderson3962]

In 2001 the West had 2 Teams in the Southeast (ATL/CAR), 2 on the Mississippi River (STL/NO) and then SF as the only actual team in the West. Meanwhile Arizona and Dallas were in the East

[@LeMan8o4]

I’ve never said this without sarcasm before…. But cool story bro! 💜🏈✊🏾

[@Donald38]

you seem to be going on a raven rampage

[@washingtonsportsden5365]

12:16 To further your point, DC and Baltimore are so close, they were in the same metro area until 1990, and are closer to each other than some of their own respective suburbs. Also, growing up in the area, I saw the fanbases geographically overlap somewhat. BAL fans in the DC area are usually my age (mid 20s) or younger, but closer to Baltimore you'd still see a heavy WSH influence. Then, consider this: The WSH area/BAL area boundary isn't universally agreed upon, so a lot of people would have had their "local team's game" blocked for much of the season if this proposal went through.

[@MarloSoBalJr]

Yup!... It's a blessing how things are now. Ravens on CBS; Redskins🗿 on FOX. We don't need a repeat of the forever ongoing MASN dispute between the O's & Nats

[@MatthiaGryffine]

I always felt that the Browns should have gone to the NFC East in 2002. The main reason, was to balance out the markets in each conference. Secondly, reducing travel for teams in each division.

[@marcus813]

I think the Bengals would've objected to this.

[@MarloSoBalJr]

One of the contributing factors is also flight patterns and marketing. Dallas is an east coast market by revenue, but, also, because flights to/from DFW Airport is a lot cheaper and easily accessible for Philly; NY and DC regions. Here in Baltimore, BWI is easily accessible because it links both Baltimore & DC to either CLE; Cincy and Pitt for cheap prices. Those 3 three teams on the other hand requires driving an entire state to reach each other and more expensive to access each other. [Takes a longer time traveling by car b/w Cleveland and Cincy than flying to Baltimore] Baltimore [albeit a small city] is clumped together with the BW Metropolitan market, making the Ravens the highest revenue generator regarding TV marketing in the AFC North division. Steelers ARE traditionally the most watched & most followed franchise in our division by a landslide "BUT" Pittsburgh is damn near at the bottom as far as TV marketing revenue. Accessibility matters a lot and TV money talks the most

[@LogoAttitude]

Dallas is also Eastern in the sense that it is in the Central Time Zone, which combined with the Eastern Time Zone forms one definition of the Eastern US (this is the definition adhered to most notably in broadcasting).

[@tedkijeski339]

Wasn't it your Jacksonville Jaguars who were the early favorites to go to the NFC back in 2001?

[@jeffprovo7604]

Imagine a world where they didn't need to worry about local markets and TV contracts because everyone could just stream whatever game they wanted... then you could have geographically named divisions that actually follow geography. Dallas should not be in the East and Indianapolis should not be in the South, for example.

[@psychopathyoutubeemployees280]

Or Dallas relocates to Quebec, and Indianapolis relocates to Louisville!

[@spectrevampire]

"Can we have the Texans in the same conference as the Cowboys?" "No, that would screw up the TV scheduling." "Can we have Washington and Baltimore in the same division?" "No, that would screw up the TV scheduling." Meanwhile, the state of Ohio: *laughs in Browns and Bengals*

[@psychopathyoutubeemployees280]

Except Ohio is not as divided when it comes to Bengals and Browns support. Sure it might cause problems for Columbus, but everywhere else? Nah.

[@Jason_Maier]

Ravens/Steelers is a more compelling rivalry (several times it's been a Sunday Night game) than Ravens/Commanders.

[@fromthehaven94]

The NFC East and AFC South are two examples of being the outliers of actual geographically aligned divisions. The Cowboys, of course, are in Texas, in the central time zone with three division opponents all within a day's drive of each other. The Colts are in Indianapolis, northwest of Cincinnati.

[@urbanleftbehind]

The Colts are maybe 5 driving hours from Nashville and Indiana is often described as the South's middle finger to the Midwest.

[@stevengrvp]

Wow this seems interesting ray Lewis in the nfc east

[@mrmajikjr]

You hear people say Paul Brown founded 1/16th of the NFL, but really, he founded 3/4ths of the AFC North

[@brianmiller1077]

Cleveland, Cinnci and ?

[@MarloSoBalJr]

​@@brianmiller1077 Browns; Browns (Ravens); and Bengals

[@slibertas1996]

The Cowboys should’ve gotten screwed

[@raytaylor6412]

Cleveland never forgave (nor will ever forgive) Art Modell for moving the Browns out of town. Baltimore never forgave Bob Irsay for moving the Colts out of town (in the middle of the night) but celebrated Modell for doing the same thing with the Browns. Is something wrong here?

[@reidbrinkley8652]

Irsay moved because of a rift Modell moved for a different reason

[@promedio2933]

In the end both old farts suck big time.

[@MarloSoBalJr]

​@@reidbrinkley8652 a "rift" Irsay wanted a FOOTBALL specific stadium but the Maryland legislation voted NO, so they let their guard down thinking "Ol' Bobby boy ain't moving the Colts anywhere 😅" ...then came that Winter night in 1984 Next morning, in Annapolis, MD, legislation were 😢... then came the ceased & desist order that failed. Moral of the story "Don't Let Them Know Your Next Move"

[@ianward3647]

I’m a ravens fan and even I didn’t know this

[@LegionOfShrooms]

Art wanted that hardly travel game in Maryland

[@jpmnky]

More important it would’ve kept the Seahawks out of the NFC West.

[@jeffanderson3962]

Would have broken up Dallas' historical rivalries in the east....but Cowboys-49ers in the same division would be interesting.

[@finkness8483]

NFL divisions are still stupid. Jets/Giants should be in the same division. Jaguars/Bucs/Miami should be together. Rams/49ers/Chargers/Seahawks should be a division. The AFC/NFC spit is dumb and during realignment they should have blown it up and aligned the teams properly.

[@TheRealfan1]

They did that because of scheduling conflicts. Say if Jets/Giants and Steelers/Eagles were in same divisions, networks would have had to pick between two teams to show on TV and would have outraged lots of fans.

[@niteporter]

Actually it does make sense. Cowpies should be in the NFC south. Bring back the Houston Oilers. Texans is Terrible name.

[@juicyfartsofjimcornette1154]

Bud Adams is out of the way. Now you need to get the McNair's to deal with Bud's heirs in order to get the Oilers name back. Good luck.

[@WaltGekko]

The Ravens moving to the NFC East would likely have set off a number of logistical issues that went beyond the issue with the then-Redskins (now-Commanders). There likely would have been a host of other changes: Likely Scenarios if the Ravens did move to the NFC East: Cowboys, Cardinals and Seahawks all join the 49ers in the NFC West NFC East is NY Giants, Baltimore, Philadelphia and Washington. NFC South is as it would be, NFC West would be Arizona, Dallas, San Francisco and Seattle. The then-St. Louis Rams move to the AFC South with the Dolphins (division would be Houston, Jacksonville, Miami and St. Louis) while Indy and the Titans go to the AFC North (division would be Cleveland, Cincinnati, Indianapolis and Tennessee) and the Steelers move to the AFC East (division would be NY Jets, Buffalo, New England and Pittsburgh). AFC West would be as we have known it. Could you imagine how big Steelers-Patriots would have become if that scenario played out and they played twice every season?

[@WaltGekko]

Another possibility would be Tennessee would be in the AFC South and St. Louis would have been in the AFC North.

[@supersaturn956]

Man my Ravens would eat in the NFC East!

[@princeofdarkness1647]

We don’t always need context

[@briansedeyn8757]

The divisions before expansion made absolutely no sense to begin with. Phoenix in the east, Atlanta and New Orleans in the west? Lol

[@MarloSoBalJr]

Buccaneers in the NFC Central...