How the Grinch Preached Christmas - Episode 23 Branham Historical Research Podcast

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In this episode, Charles and John discuss the very controversial celebration of Christmas in William Branham's Message cult of personality.
We discuss:
* Branham's strong position against celebrating Christmas in some versions of his stage persona while advocating for celebrating Christmas in other versions of his stage persona
* Branham's use of Christmas marketing for his revivals
* William Branham condemning other Christians for Christmas trees, and the Christmas tree that he himself owned and decorated
* Branham family lifestyle vs. the stage persona

[@hattiekiptukyo1640]

Two weeks after leaving the message i realized i was completely healed from years of anxiety. Its been over six months now and i am so grateful to God that He brought me out and now i am free

[@brothercaleb]

Welcome to reality. Glad one more sheep 🐑 is saved. Breathe the free air my friend 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@lesliewells1062]

Praise the Lord!!

[@bemoguy]

Thank you Jesus! "Whom the Son sets free is free indeed "!!

[@jaylam]

I celebrate Christmas through and through as couldn’t before for almost 28 years🎉🎄

[@smokelesschoice165]

William Branham preached against Christmas in his sermons but celebrated it in his own home? He preached against women cutting their hair yet the women in his own family cut their hair? He preached how women should have long dresses yet the women in his own family had skirts above the knees? You know what? This man obviously didn't take what he preached seriously because he clearly talked it but didn't walk it. This is a classic case of "Do as I say not as I do." That should anger anybody right there. Know this: A genuine teacher lives out what they preach, a false teacher does not. Period.

[@Fredericko-k7p]

Don't take it so badly my friend it's called "persona"- speak and act as your role demanded. If he said he was Elijah he must act the part in condemning his Jezebel. Branham was a masterful deceiver!

[@smokelesschoice165]

@@Fredericko-k7p He obviously put the "C" in Charlatan. A duplicitous individual indeed. Unbelievable.

[@lesliewells1062]

The thing that makes me the most angry is the hypocrisy. The cult has had such a negative impact on my life, and to know WMB didn't even believe everything he said and didn't practice what he preach is simple so infuriating!!! There we were ruining our lives to conform to WMBs teaching and he didn't even follow them!!

[@glendatelgenhoff6514]

I remember the first time I listened to a record of Christmas songs. I was 18 and had left home. It was the first time I heard the lyrics to songs like "Go Tell it on the Mountain", "We Three Kings", "Silent Night." I cried through the whole record. It was the first time I knew that Christmas was a beautiful holiday that brings people closer to God. That Christmas may be the only time of the year that some think of others and give to programs that benefit society. And that's a good thing!

[@wendyreal247]

My uncle a minister in the church "spanked and rebuked" me one year for singing Silent Night, which I was singing verbatim from the Melodies of Peaise songbook, a book that was routinely used in song services

[@glendatelgenhoff6514]

@wendyreal247 I'm sorry that happened to you! I used to wonder why they expected kids to know everything 😕

[@pastormosesalu3918]

You guys are doing a great job of opening our eyes to the errors we were all involved in called THE MESSAGE. However, like William Branham would often say, I will say amen to any truth I hear from anyone irrespective of my disagreement with whatever else he does or teaches. I have since corrected the errors I was believing and teaching in my Assembly despite the attacks I have been recieving from the followers of William branham, including calling me names in the social media. May God bless you both and others who have taken it upon yourselves to expose these errors. It has helped many of us out there who are sincere and seeking for truth. I see you people as a type of Moses who God arranged to be trained by the same people who enslaved God's people so that he can know all their secrets to arm him to later deliver His people from the Egyptians. It is a great ministry. I see it as the final EXODUS, the BRIDE'S FINAL REVIVAL. I thank God always for making me to come your way at this time. Please look at that scripture you quoted again in her proper context. Colossians 2:8-17 was not referring to pagan celebrations. Paul was referring to the teachings by some Jewish preachers trying to make the gentile converts to practice the Jewish ordinances that Grace had done away with. That was Paul's major headache with those legalists at that time. I believe 2cor.6:14-17 is still applicable to us today. I also agree with William branham that we should do away with anything he teaches that contradicts the Bible. His followers went so far in there errors because they stopped following him only as he too followed the Lord Jesus. Thank you both for your efforts to return us fully to christ. May the Lord protect you and give you more knowledge and materials for this great ministry the Lord has called you into. May we all serve the Lord acceptably and remain rapturable. Amen.

[@LeavingtheMessage]

I'm glad you enjoy it! I think you might need to study the history and culture for Colossians a bit more, however. The situation was known as the "Colossian heresy", which is the keyword that can be used to search. The problem was not that Colossians were legalistic in Jewish custom, though there was Jewish influence. They were ... not ... Jewish. Colossians were influenced by a combination of Jewish legalism (and mysticism), oriental mysticism, and Greek asceticism, and had long histories of Colossian worship and culture. It was a heretical cocktail that was nothing like Christianity. The combination of asceticism and legalism produced doctrines claiming (like Branhamism / Pentecostalism) that they could achieve "perfection" and higher levels of "salvation" by denying themselves the things they enjoyed. Paul had never been to Colossae, and the celebrations of "new moons" etc., were Colossian custom. Even without reading in context, Paul clearly tells them to ignore those who judged them by partaking in these things -- not the reverse. (In other words, he was scolding those who tried to stop them, not those who were enjoying the festivals/food/alcohol). An argument could be made for the Jewish Legalism forcing Colossians not to eat certain meats, but the overall theme is this: Don't let these people judge you for enjoying the things you enjoy, and give thanks to God. Hardcore fundamentalists ignore the first sentence of that passage, claiming and doing the exact opposite of what Paul stated. This is a fairly detailed study guide if you are interested: www.blueletterbible.org/comm/guzik_david/study-guide/colossians/colossians-2.cfm

[@FaithandFoodSecrets]

Many hard Oneness Churches taught against Christmas also. That's why i got a good laugh about the Christmas lights at your house. That would of told us you had totally backslid. Other oneness churches were not saved if they celebrated holidays. All pagan. Everything was a heaven or hell issue. Listening to you guys, is bringing all that back. Just so thankful Jesus has opened my eyes and delivered me from all that.

[@dmp2461]

Whoever cut your Christmas lights was being childish, I'm not sure how that was supposed to draw you in. I'm sorry you have to deal with so much hate.

[@forgetmenot4600]

Herbert W Armstrong was very much against Christmas trees, etc. and all traditions that originated in heathenism.

[@josesarinsemanzi]

This title is killer. The Grinch

[@michaelriley2]

I am familiar with antidepressants being taboo in the message. And it came from Billy Paul branham saying that people who take that sort of medication will leave the message. That is how they get the message rules started, either billy paul or joseph will drop a statement or opinion to someone and it blossoms into cult doctrine from there. It seems to me that maybe the majority of message believers should be medicated for mental health.

[@LeavingtheMessage]

I really wish I could say what billy Paul told me about his depression without being sued. All I can say is this: there are very cowardly, evil men, and I won’t say who until they are dead, who prey upon the weaknesses of cult members by using their own mental health experiences as strategy. These men, in my opinion, deserve a prison not imaginable by human minds.

[@michaelriley2]

I totally agree, these people should be in prison for the mental abuse and trouble they've caused.

[@lesliewells1062]

I violated the rules and went to see a psychologist and that led me to take ant depressants and eventually leaving the cult. They don't want you to think! If you actually do therapy you have to think!!

[@lesliewells1062]

Yes, I wish they would end up in prison!

[@jonirennirt2391]

Love your music on this segment and all the other ones!!! Thank you for this segment; brought much clarity. Merry Christmas John and Charles!!!💞 Emmanuel, God with us!!!💞

[@leahmckay1431]

Always look forward to your podcast gentlemen. Growing up in the message, we never did decorate but I found out later that some people would.Merry Christmas to you and your families John and Charles. And blessings in the new year.

[@hattie-thebatty-2486]

Scandal Skirt 😲love it 🤣

[@charleshays5407]

Are you familiar with the book Mystery Babylon Religion by Ralph Woodrow? He mentions the origins of Christmas and the Jehovah's Witnesses plagarized from him.

[@glendatelgenhoff6514]

Branham had a Christmas tree? I never knew this!

[@LeavingtheMessage]

I got a little boy, small enough yet to kind of want a Christmas tree, and we had it in the room 60-1225 - God's Wrapped Gift Rev. William Marrion Branham table.branham.org

[@lesliewells1062]

Crazy, isn't it?

[@Weissguys6]

Wow. So much information in this episode. History is so important for us to learn from. Thank you for your diligence. Merry Christmas to you and your families! 🎄

[@forgetmenot4600]

William Branham was teaching law, he knew nothing of Grace.

[@LeavingtheMessage]

Branham’s version of “Grace”: By grace are ye saved by faith in my law which I shall utter, which hath been hidden to the wise and prudent by not having been written in the Bible Canon.

[@jknga5869]

​@@LeavingtheMessageWow! That's a pretty strong comment

[@hattie-thebatty-2486]

and thank you for being vulnerable about Depression, I suffer with it intermittently & so sorry about your bereavement. I lost one of my oldest friends last week after 35 years of friendship so hard

[@LeavingtheMessage]

Very sorry for your loss my friend. I am really feeling it today. Holidays are very difficult after leaving a doomsday cult that practices emotional or physical shinning. My cousin was the pillar that I leaned on.

[@hattie-thebatty-2486]

@@LeavingtheMessage yes this time of year makes it all the more poignant, my friend left an 11yr old son so so sad. Just remember how much your work is helping those poor people enslaved by the cult & your music is wonderful too

[@lesliewells1062]

I'm so sorry!!

[@kaydickens1899]

@@LeavingtheMessage 1

[@michaelriley2]

Merry Christmas you guys!

[@reidferguson3386]

Had to laugh at parts. The "skirt" story reminded me of how the "law" in our Latter Rain church was the sin of women wearing open-toed shoes. And hearing one gal get up to testify that "Coca-Cola has never passed these lips." Oh my!

[@LeavingtheMessage]

Lol! Those were both doctrines in the main sect as well. One famous Branham cult minister got turned on by women’s toes, and so it became “sin”. A majority of cult members were never aware. And the coke thing made it’s way in as well, though I believe it originated with a Mormon convert.

[@sacredrose5477]

@@LeavingtheMessage Don’t the church of God Penetecostal churches also forbid open toe shoes?

[@reidferguson3386]

@@sacredrose5477 That's possible depending on which branch of COG. I had a friend in it and in his group women couldn't shave their legs or armpits either. No wedding rings. And wrist watches were forbidden jewelry though costly and ornate pocket watches were just fine.

[@lesliewells1062]

I've never heard of the coke thing!

[@lesliewells1062]

Wow, we were allowed to do those things in this cult

[@carlosparra1777]

Ppl in this message dogma... by wmb end time profit, sear, dispensationlism profit...you can pick from HIS multiple in depth THEOLOGY. IF you want a Christmas tree or dont; you can be a Trinitarian or you don't; you can wear shorts wmb did or you dont; if you want a television or you dont; get married interracial or you don't ((by the way profit Joseph branham ALLOWS IT)) EVEN he dont beleive profit messager...what the FLAVOR?

[@wmb1977ify]

He's not very much of a man. That's exactly right. True. He don't love her or he'd take a board and blister her with it. You know that's the truth. Now, I don't say that to be smart. I'm telling you the truth. That's right. 58-0324, Hear Ye Him

[@dleyba3199]

thats so messed up!

[@ggrraannddmmaasstteerr1555]

That intro music though 🤩😅 Nice cut!

[@BC-qb2if]

Merry Christmas 🎄🌲

[@lesliewells1062]

We gave each other presents, but nothing else. WMBs daughter cut their hair???!!!???

[@lesliewells1062]

We were told that if we didn't give our kids Christmas gifts, they would hate the message, so we needed to give them gifts. But the adults also gave each other gifts.

[@harrysingh6522]

Great job guys,God bless.

[@helenr4300]

Curious how many branches of the message sects are there? Maybe you say on website, will pop over and look.

[@LeavingtheMessage]

I started to catalogue this, but unfortunately there are too many to count and they are too complicated to describe. Every single cult church, in every single state or country, of between 2-4 million people, in one way or another could/should be considered a splinter group. Even the headquarters church itself has splintered from the trunk and resembles Jim Jones/Peoples Temple more than they do William Branham. They all look nothing like the original cult, and the original cult had rebranded itself too many times with each version of the stage persona. Simply put: it would take an “Encyclopedia of Branham stage persona doctrines” to even explain it. It is an ever-changing, ever-splintering dragon from the pits of hell.

[@lesliewells1062]

Every church I was ever in was different enough to be called a splinter group.

[@timharper5543]

I know countless oneness people who totally disregard Christmas. I think many of them believe by not celebrating Christmas, gives them a feeling of more “super Christian “ and “holy” than others.

[@discipleinlight]

The UPC highly exalts Christmas.

[@helenr4300]

Oh so much to comment on, apologies for the essat. Dating of Christmas, yes this was overlaid on existing seasonal festivities, it is easier than changing the culture fully. It is very northern hemispheric., and most spiritualitiez have a 'light in darkness' type winter festival. And bringing in evergreens as a marker of nature persisting through the barren months. Also in shorter daylight hours an agricultural society has less work to do, so it's a natural point in their cycle for feasting. Date of Jesus' birth. The October / April options are I believe are from looking at when the shepherds would be in the fields and a link to lambing as the arrival of the lamb of God. April has the added impact of the middle ages myth that a Saint died on the same day they were born. If that was the matk of holiness, then for Jesus..... Banning Christmas, before you got to it later on, I was thinking about Jehovah's Witnesses. I am not such what year Judge Rutherford, (who took over from Russell) banned Christmas and various other days, but I have seen a 1930s photo of JW HQ with tree and Christmas decorations. Rutherford also banned beards, though to be a way to mark shift fromthe well bearded Russell's times. Colossians quote. Whilst certain cultures have had human sacrifice it is actually rare and thought to be used as a last resort to placate their Gods in times of societal crisis. None of the cultures around the time of Paul, nor his circuit of influence and knowledge were doing human sacrifice. There was temple prostitution, Inc homosexual acts forced onto slaves, but the only killing was of animals, whose meat was then sold on the markets. Some on becoming Christians felt that they should not eat food that was tainted by being offered to the idols, and as most meat on the market had been they promoted vegetarian diets. Others said that as mere idols there was no power to spiritually influence the meat and it is safe to eat. Hence Paul's comments on the issue, the abstainers were doing so to remain holy; the meat eaters were doing so through a belief in a strong faith not impacted by mere idols. So in the end he says do what you choose, and don't look down on others for their choices. However your actions impact others, so be willing to give up your view to help them. Eg. someone believes that you were eating the meat as part of endorsing the temple gods, and that stumbles their faith, then avoid doing it.

[@lindajohnson4204]

You make many good points, but this always throws me: if the shepherds had only been in the field April through October, where would the sheep have been the rest of the year? I mean, they didn't go down to Eilat for the winter! They were still up where their shepherds were, even if it snowed. The sheep wouldn't have been in some barn, eating ChaffHay with molasses. And the shepherds were probably out with them. Cold weather makes wolves and thieves even hungrier.

[@BC-qb2if]

Wm. Branham's kids received Christmas presents with money from poor congregants?

[@LeavingtheMessage]

Yes, but not the reverse: Quote: Now, as Brother Neville has said, and so do I want to thank each one of you for the remembrance of Christmas, your cards. Brother and Sister Spencer, I got yours. And all the different ones here that sent me your cards, around, I do appreciate them and the gifts and things that you sent. We certainly do appreciate it. From-from my wife, and I, and-we-and the children, we thank you. We would like to be able to send a Christmas present to everyone, but that would sure be a hard thing for a preacher to do, wouldn’t it? 59-1223 - Questions And Answers Rev. William Marrion Branham table.branham.org

[@BC-qb2if]

Was there a mandolin played in the closing?

[@LeavingtheMessage]

Yes. Actually there is a mandolin in almost every song I do, maybe not as noticeable.

[@snappytherefore]

Oh my, I can relate to this. We always celebrated Christmas, but we had to do it secretly. Our pastor was really hard against Christmas.

[@wmb1977ify]

Now, you can take some of these little two-by-fours if you want to, but that's what God said. That's what Christ said. Now, that's the truth. Oh, God be merciful. What must the great Holy Spirit think when He comes before the Father? You say, "Why you picking on us women?" All right, men, here you are. Any man that'll let his wife smoke cigarettes and wear them kind of clothes, shows what he's made out of. He's not very much of a man. That's exactly right. True. He don't love her or he'd take a board and blister her with it. You know that's the truth. Now, I don't say that to be smart. I'm telling you the truth. That's right. Branham, William. 1958, Mar 24. Hear Ye Him

[@lesliewells1062]

Are you posting this to show how brutal WMB was towards women, how wrong he was? I hope so!

[@wmb1977ify]

@@lesliewells1062 False prophets need to be exposed thats why im posting this. these are branhams words not mine

[@lesliewells1062]

@@wmb1977ify I couldn't agree more!! I wasn't sure if you were exposing WMB or agreeing with him! I'm glad you don't agree with him and these terrible, violent words!

[@twanettefourie3131]

Love hoe you display brotherly love anc transparency in matters where you hold different views. Thank you, brother John and Rev Charles, for this podcast.

[@wendyreal247]

Sorry, was your grandpa scared that he might see her cutch from a 4-inch slit that was probably by her shin 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@carlyoung8657]

Crazy how such a small thing like this matter to anyone.

[@nancymiesczak7573]

It's what you call being a hypocrite

[@scrapingrama1]

Yeah but the Grinch redeemed himself. 😂 ❤merry Christmas.

[@sharongilbert6712]

Great wisdom!

[@emeldakerkhoff5754]

I put up a tree decorate and put up lights because it’s festive. I never associate this with Jesus. Simply enjoy the colors during traditionally blah weather in the North.

[@donnag.3611]

I'D REALLY LIKE FOR YOU TO CEASE FROM CALLING him BRO. Branham. :-)

[@Charles-Paisley]

Haha! A lifetime of cult brainwashing is difficult to overcome.

[@leahmckay1431]

@@Charles-Paisley It definitely is

[@lesliewells1062]

That takes time to end that habit. I think Charles has only been out of the cult less than two years.

[@juliemedlin7443]

We refer to him as "Marvin "!

[@LeavingtheMessage]

@@juliemedlin7443 LOL

[@leandukharan4626]

Christmas is paganism Mithras the Persian sun god born on the 25th of December with 25 more goddesses BC Christmas was 600 centuries BC. Christian who celebrated Christmas are praising the devil 😈 and the are mocking God Jer.10:1-5 refers not to follow the ways of the heathen

[@jknga5869]

Ok. If you don't believe in Christmas, ignore it.

[@jknga5869]

What does Paul say in the New Testament about days and holidays?

[@roseaugatzke7877]

a very pointless broadcast........it's obvious these brothers do not have a LOVE for the truth..........

[@BillyPaulBranham]

William Branham is the truth, he is the word made manifest. And all who reject the prophet are rejecting God.

[@donwilbur5265]

@@BillyPaulBranham The living Jesus Christ is the word of God .Brother Branham was only a man. ( a sinner like you and I)Not the word God)These men need to seek the living Jesus Christ for wisdom. They are not giving any Glory to God. Jesus is still teaching his living word.

[@BillyPaulBranham]

​@@donwilbur5265 How can you call God's prophet a sinner? He was more than a man. He was the voice of God. You're no better than the voice of unbelief you are listening to in this video, accusing the prophet of being a sinner.

[@bonniebarlow4939]

@@BillyPaulBranham Those who believe false prophets are rejecting what they say is God's word.

[@dleyba3199]

@@donwilbur5265 amen!

[@angelacox6848]

If you actually research the Christmas it is pagan through and through! I have never believed william branham as a prophet or even a true believer ! I say what I say about Christmas because I read my Bible and God said DO NOT worship Me the way other nations worship their gods! And I researched the roots of Christmas! And you totally miss quoted Paul in colossians! Paul is responding to a letter from an assembly he started in a pagan city and their family and friends were critizing them for no longer celebrating pagan holidays because now that they know God they were keeping God's holy days mentioned in leviticus 23! They are His appointed times not just for the jews!

[@pennymuthui2999]

I am happy today because God send His prophet William Branham His Malachi chaphter 4 verse 5-6 and The messenger who has revealed the book of The revelation of The Lord Jeus Christ .God has revealed His word to His children.

[@jknga5869]

William Branham and the doctrines he preached have done more damage to children than possibly anything in this world.

[@ericvanderstel5373]

God is against the Christmas tree Jeremiah 10.1.5.in de bijbel talk it over with him

[@BillyPaulBranham]

That is exactly right! And the prophet had one in his home so he could learn about the effects of pagan practices. And he found out just how evil it was, and told us all about it. God thought it, the prophet spoke it, and I believe it.

[@lesliewells1062]

Is that also why he went to the place in Paris where men were openly having sex together? Did WMB sample every kind of evil to so call learn the evil effects of it?? That is absolutely ridiculous!!!

[@bonniebarlow4939]

@@BillyPaulBranham And the word "gullible" isn't in the dictionary. Check it out.

[@donwilbur5265]

Where in the Bible does it tells us to celebrate Christmas. (The birthday of Jesus Christ) We know that Christmas is a pagan holiday.

[@LeavingtheMessage]

Where in the Bible does it say to eat at a restaurant? Or to drive an automobile? Seems many people today like to cook their meat, as did the pagans!!! Friend, seems like you don't enjoy celebrating! My advice is not to do it if you don't like! For those who do, let no man (even this one) judge you for it! Quote: Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. - Colossians 2:16

[@FeremoRacumu-ci8ec]

Many believers are still living under the law of the old testament without realising it.New testament believers live in the new law of Christ which is grace.Only those who are in Christ can fulfill the law through this abounding grace . Hallelujah .❤❤❤

[@wmb1977ify]

I said, "If my girl ever stretches herself out like that, she's going to get a sun tanning, but it is going to be Charlie Branham's son, give her a tan with a barrel slat and bring her home." That's right. I'd tan her. She'd... Well, she'd remember it a long time too. Amen 51-1003 BELIEVEST.THOU.THIS_ NEW.YORK.NY