How The Manga Ruined Persona 3

[@NINJAMUSHI]

I made a follow up to this video about the Persona 4 manga and... well, you'll just have to go check it out. Have a good day✌

[@aventurine0517]

i tried to read the p3 manga (online) and i thought the website was missing a few chapters because how much it was jumping around 😭

[@younicegalot7976]

I was watching that interesting video kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnWpmIGwfdmZr8k and KZbin brought me here to watching this game 🎮

[@Jacob_G9]

Are you telling me they tried to write both the Beginning of the game AND the Final act at the same time in one manga series? WHY?! Even somebody who played the Game would be lost!

[@spydersoup8447]

Well, I'd say Persona 5 did this much better since that's how the game's plot is set up. It's better fixed in Royal thanks to Akechi being given a proper set-up to his story and build-up to his big reveal. it make sense in P5, but I agree that it doesn't make sense here.

[@randomt800kiddo2]

@@spydersoup8447a couple flash forwards here and there to an interrogation room that coincides with what happens in the past is completely different to what the manga tried doing lmao

[@NovaBomb3676]

Imagine this jumbled mess of a plot structure in the game. You'd barley have an idea of what the hell is going on. I feel bad for anyone who wanted to experience the story through the manga.(especially if doing it blind) It feels like it kinda wants to be Haruhi Suzumiya in terms of mixing up the order of events which is insane. Great video and a very interesting look into how the manga adapted things.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

It's a heck of a comparison hahaha. Thank you, though!

[@Starhamp]

I guess the manga should've been called Persona 3:Scramble

[@itsCrust]

i'd just assumed the manga was like the movies: a linear, acceptable-but-somewhat-lacking retelling of t he events of the game in a different medium with its own quirks and advantages as well as disadvantages compared to the source. i.... kinda wish it stayed that way LOL. sogabe's a great artist, and the manga does appear to have great moments, but wow. that's... just kind of terrible. much as i want to sugarcoat it, no, that's a terrible way to tell the story of persona 3. this was a very interesting video and i found your critiques to be sound, fair, and well-communicated. i'll be keeping an eye out for your channel from now on :)

[@NINJAMUSHI]

I think that's what we'd all want to assume, if only it were actually the case haha. Thank you though!

[@shelbybayer200]

You'd be sorely mistaken Here is why The Protagonist is called Makoto in the Anime movies Minato in the Manga

[@CheesyLizzy]

@@shelbybayer200 Honestly I'm not sure I want to call him Minato now and have to reflect on the state of the manga everytime I say that name

[@younicegalot7976]

I was watching that interesting video kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnWpmIGwfdmZr8k and KZbin brought me here to watching this game 🎮

[@magicwandstudio3141]

It such a shame because there are several original element from the manga that I like that I wish they adapt, how Ryoji try to distract Mitsuru by disguising as Makoto only to have his towel fell and Makoto being a good rapper and singer (a nod to his Persona). Also Makoto being a dork compare to his game and movie material(remind me a bit of Narukami). I also really love the artstyle, probably even more than the movie. But overall, the story is a disappointment, especially the ending. I still pick the movie overall. And I think it make sense Makoto end up with Aigis because of The Answer.

[@koichice]

I didn't think it was THAT bad until the last chapter. Having the protag just... reviving kills the entire point of the story of P3

[@exyzt9877]

And also conflicts with the story of the optional FES epilogue "The Answer", which makes it a point to hammer in "Minato/Makoto/Sakuya/Whatever is fucking dead, he is NOT. COMING. BACK. EVER." by having you fight a shadow that represents the party's desires to see him again. Frankly, a lot of the adaptations make the remake epilogues null, which to be fair, it was released BEFORE the remake, but... eh.

[@gaetanocolella4778]

@@exyzt9877 Only the Persona 5 manga follows the extended version of the story (Royal). The manga of Persona 3 and 4 were written as if there was only the story of the first edition of the video game

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

@@gaetanocolella4778 4's actually got nods to Golden, just no Marie, tho.

[@gaetanocolella4778]

@@ChiefMedicPururu Right, I forgot about that. However, the Persona 4 manga is more similar to 4 Vanilla than 4 Golden, while the Persona 5 manga already has Kasumi and Maruki

[@Joker3180Z]

he didn't revive, he just didn't die

[@jf4132]

The movies are a way better entry point to the game than this. Sure they’re mostly highlight reals, but as highlight reels go, they’re still really well done and you still get the idea of what’s going on in the story. I also like how the movies give extra depth to Makoto by actually giving a reason for why he barely emotes, implying that he acts this way because he’s going through trauma and just hides his emotions. Especially since in movie one he picks all the asshole dialogue options, and seeing my boy acting like a prick to everyone just feels right.

[@0uttaS1TE]

And it also just looks good. Like, damn.

[@jf4132]

@@0uttaS1TE yeah they’re probably the best things A1 Pictures did with the Persona series before they ruined Persona 5’s anime

[@GaeaRage0798]

The Manga is still better than the Movies for the most part. For starters the manga isn't so fan pleasing at giving most of the cake to just one character (Aigis), leaving the rest from very little to almost nothing (Yukari, Mitsuru and Akihiko). Not to mention how flanderized Aigis is in the movies, I dare say she got even worse than Akihiko, Chie and Teddie in the Spin-offs.

[@jf4132]

@@GaeaRage0798 that’s not exactly a good thing dude. Yeah most of the characters have been flanderized, but at least it better than giving them no character at all. When your defense for a bad manga adaptation is that it “doesn’t pander to the fans” you’re doing something VERY wrong

[@GaeaRage0798]

@@jf4132 The only issue the manga has is that it's not chronologically ordered at the start, since it features events from both the story's beginning and November, but other than that I dare say it's a better and more faithful adaptation than the Movies will ever be. Not only the manga doesn't give the spotlight to just the MC, Ryoji and Aigis (the latter being a flanderized copy in the Movies), but also it does give more spotlight to the other characters to have a more proper character development, specially Yukari, Mitsuru and Akihiko, who are nearly forgotten in the Movies once Aigis enters the picture.

[@heroicgangster9981]

One of the things that made Persona 3 very unique to me in the way it tells the daily life aspects is in how the game music is used funnily enough. What I found cool about how music works is that the music has a chance to crossover the social link events and story events when they use the same tracks. To me, one moment from the game was when the track Troubled was used in one of Maiko's slinks and a random story event using the same theme without stopping. It's a neat detail that sorta shows how big events from daily life and the overall story are truly equal and sorta makes you feel like you're watching a drama show that has an A and B plot happening per episode. What makes Persona an iconic franchise even if main character development is stuck in slinks in 4 and 5 is that the everyday life stuff does matter in general. It's why Persona 4 is considered the best adaptation because it uses the appeal of daily life and bonds building up the story.

[@shnorkeythefourth4572]

The “not having a good enough part in the story” happens a lot to the last party member, specifically naoto and haru getting very little development because they’re used for like 2 maybe 3 dungeons before the end

[@NINJAMUSHI]

Yeah, a least Naoto is sort of involved in the story from the 2nd dungeon onwards, Haru isn't even there at all until the end

[@ILiekFishes]

Naoto gets 4 dungeons if you do all of them

[@exyzt9877]

I feel like a way to fix that problem might be to include the character closer to the start, get some small little bits of characterization and development but not enough for them to become summoners, then build off that small development once they get their personas and join the party. so... basically, kinda what they did with Kasumi in P5? I mean, most of the Summoners attend the same school (Yusuke is the obvious exception), most of them would likely be able to meet each other BEFORE joining, and it certainly makes a lot more sense both plotwise and themewise to do something like that than having them pop up almost unnanounced get all the development required for basic summoning out of the way and getting hit with a truckload of (optional) character development all in one go.

[@advmx3]

@@NINJAMUSHI Even in Royal, they missed the point of making Haru an actually NPC for a while, being able to see her walking, or in places she would be later in the game once you have her in the party would have helped. Frankly her entire setup should have changed, including her entire Confidant story just to make her a better experience, but then again nothing is perfect.

[@VixYW]

To be fair tho, Naoto i particular carried the main plot of 4 completely on her back because it barely moved forward at all before she joins the team.

[@backupschmliff1156]

Every Persona game is simultaneously the most overrated and underrated game in the series.

[@malikmartin3723]

persona fans hate persona the most

[@adachy]

@@malikmartin3723 just like sonic and pokémon

[@chronica6457]

Except Persona 1, no one Overrates Persona 1

[@ccmemes5898]

@@chronica6457 what persona 1 u must mean persona 3 which is the first persona game

[@ginger-ham4800]

> What is Persona 1 & 2?

[@dracmanish]

Persona 3 was also my introduction to the series and to this day it's still my favorite game of all time. I own all of the P3 manga which I got as a gift and I do want to read it at some point so I can give a fair shot but Man I will never get over knowing how much the story switches between dates and to such a ridicules degree. I know the movies weren't the best adaptation for P3 but I loved some of the new content they had. Some examples for me are Minato's character arc, how Ryoji was written to be more of a friend to Minato compared to Junpei and Shinjiro and Ken's relationship which I think was handled way better in the film compared to how the game did it. Great vid btw and I agree that P3 not being perfect adds to its charm.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

I hope you enjoy the manga more than me! I don't hate it or anything, just wish it were better. Kinda same thing as the movies, but worse. And thank you!

[@dracmanish]

@@NINJAMUSHI I’m really hoping I do enjoy it myself. Like I said I’m giving it a fair shot.

[@ThiccFurryBoi34]

I mean the last one was better with the team struggling to accept death and makoto realize the reason who he lives for and when the sun shines on them and showed them what they were fighting for wish mitsuru had makoto help with her father at least they barely interact in the movie

[@dracmanish]

@@ThiccFurryBoi34 I liked that as well great scene.

[@ThiccFurryBoi34]

@@dracmanish but I’m still mad they butchered Elizabeth relationship so aigis can be a love interest wish they did something similar to p4 and made all the girls like him but he doesn’t notice their affection and it just ends like that

[@hexenvexen]

I feel like the Persona 1 Manga has been the only Persona adaptation that's been able to really fully capture the essence of the original game. Its handling of the story and characters is completely on point, and it often surpasses the original game in many areas. Persona 1's story was always good, but it also felt a bit lacking with much untapped potential (probably because it's a PS1 game). The manga was able to actually tap into this potential and introduce new concepts/characters that fit perfectly within the preexisting story and only strengthen the narrative. I don't want to spoil but one new concept in particular was so naturally implemented that it felt like it was a major aspect of the story and had been there since the beginning. It's not completely perfect (especially with it's handling of the Snow Queen Quest) but I still adore it for how beautifully it captured the game and was able to successfully build on top of its groundwork. It's what the story should've been from the beginning. I can't say that any other Persona adaptation has been able to do that (to be fair though P3-P5 are like 100+ hours and P1 is at the most 30 at doesn't have any life sim stuff, much more wiggle room to improve stuff)

[@NINJAMUSHI]

I'll be sure to give it a look sometime!

[@saberx2321]

Say it louder for people in the back! Persona 1 manga is great. I wish more people would check it out.

[@peronafanman]

I recently tried to get into Persona 1 but I found the gameplay to be atrociously boring and slow, can reading the manga be a good substitute for playing the game?

[@hexenvexen]

@@peronafanman For sure, some of the details are a bit different but the overall plot is the same. It's a great version of the story

[@jester_8092]

I feel the manga seemed like it was made for fans that has already experienced the story, but in other parts of the book, it's trying to act like it's for the new fans who haven't experienced it. My advise? The manga is bad for new fans, like really bad, so if you wanna read it, play the games or watch the movies first. Then you will be less confused and be able to enjoy it more. Of course, the pacing and order of events are terrible, but if you know the story, you can still enjoy it. TLDR: Bad for new fans, ok for fans who already know the story.

[@Ergeniz]

Even if you approach the manga from the standpoint of a fan that's played the source material and is knowledgeable on the lore it doesn't excuse the manga. The only point in its favor is the artwork. I understand not making a beat by beat translation, but there are huge gaps missing. Even worse it doesn't take advantage of the medium to expand on or provide an alternative perspective on the plot. Its comparable to those filler episodes in anime where they use clips from past episodes to allow the viewer to catch up on events they may have missed but somehow even worse.

[@Ilwenray85]

I only read the first one, but my impression was that it was a recollection of the player experience (obviously the mangaka's one) while remembering the game. Like, if the editor asked the mangaka: what moments in Persona 3 you liked the most? Which ones would you like to draw? And went and did exactly that. And the mangaka would remember those scenes in particular for personal reasons we don't have a way to understand. Because the scenarios were cool, because the mangaka loves Ryoji and every time he shows up wants to draw that (I played Portable and romanced him, so I would understand that ;P) or because whatever. I stopped reading after the first volume, not because it was chronologically flawed (I enjoyed _Rayuela/Hopscotch_ from Julio Cortázar after all) but because just like abstract art, I don't understand what was in the author's mind to fully appreciate those choices. Even following that logic (draw what you remember the most) I would have chosen other things. I didn't know it was that bad in other areas too (that new ending reminds me of someone I know who didn't even understood the Protagonist died at the end of the game and thought he was just napping under the sun, so when I mentioned it, he literally said _what drugs are you on_ fully sure I was mistaken) I guess I was lucky I stopped then without feeling too disappointed.

[@Ergeniz]

That's an interesting interpretation of the author's intent.

[@KrystineBrown]

The P3 manga is so weird I found scans of it years ago and just assumed that chapters were missing

[@hannahcochran5995]

I understand you so much as someone who was also a teen playing Persona 3. It is also my favorite game because the social links all are attached to the overall storyline. While I do enjoy the social links in Persona 4 and 5, I can say it didn't give me the same impact that the ending of 3 did. That story was seriously well done. I can't get over how good it is tbh. I was really upset with the movie and manga adaptations as it really didn't hook you like playing through the game did. Not that they were bad or anything, but if I wanted to convince my friend to play the games it would be hard given that is what I have to work with to give them the light experience

[@LonerofGaming]

The manga for me is definitely a case of "I honestly really wanted to like this". The structure was something just confusing and only a little be understandable with previous knowledge from the game. I feel like I'm a bit attached to the manga would be just from the individual pieces, the art, and Minato himself. I have a bit of respect for the author for trying so I can't really think too harsh but man his first outing definitely shows he wasn't experienced in structure. I guess the fact the adaptation wasn't soulless but poorly executed is why it's hard for me to be extremely harsh on it.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

I wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment

[@Luchux177]

The one thing I'll take from the manga is Minato's name.

[@ADumbMf_]

Also volume 11 cover is just too well done

[@tsf9600]

Hmm, I see fans overall seem to not like the movie *that* much, but I considered it a great companion piece for the game. One of the weakest parts of P3 imo, is that the main character often feels more like a passive observer than an active participant in the plot despite their plot relevance. The male MCs overall stoic behavior contributes to this notion...and this is why I love how the movies handled Yuuki Makoto. The guy *is* cold and stoic and it makes *sense* why he seems so dispassionate and aloof. He is traumatized and afraid and he's hiding behind a shell to protect himself, and the entire movies are about him coming out of his shell because of his contact with the people around him, culminating in him making the ultimate sacrifice. It was brilliant, it made me cry all over again for his fate in a way only the original game managed to. Even if most of the other characters suffer in terms of development as a consequence of this, I could accept it due to the inherent constraints of adapting the game into a series of movies with limited run time. It felt like it was worth it to me anyway because oh god, the last movie hits your feels like a freight train slamming into you after 3 movies of setup. The manga though. I really have nothing to say. Thanks for your effort, Sogabe, but this isn't the manga adaptation P3 deserved.

[@Vlayer]

The argument about how Persona 3 has its characters develop with the story as opposed to how P4/5 does it, is rather misguided in my opinion. If you really look at it in terms of how much story relevancy the characters have, it's not actually that much of a difference. Characters like Akihiko and Mitsuru are in the game from the very start and are rather one-dimensional for a huge part of the story. It isn't until the major event that works as a catalyst for their second awakening that we get a deeper look into them. Really, the main difference between P3 and P4/5 when it comes to character development, is that the latter put much greater importance in giving you that deeper characterization from the start. Every character upon getting introduced is pivotal to the current story beats, you don't get them suddenly joining the party like Ken does in P3. They're fully realized by the time they join your party, and the social links/confidants with these characters is more so the next step in their journey, rather than the journey as a whole.

[@paperluigi6132]

And yet people still like to refer to the MC as Minato. As if they wanna remind themselves of that train wreck of a manga. We stan Makoto Yuki in this house.

[@deserteagle0191]

bro they the same person

[@wuba5456]

Minato Arisato just sounds like a much nicer name, like both names are less common and they compliment eachother perfectly... Makoto and Yuki are both nice names individually but also they're both pretty generic and they don't pair up nearly as well

[@ThiccFurryBoi34]

Dude we already have makoto nijima and besides we have a better name then those 2 names for our emo Jesus’s it’s roger clevor

[@GlitchyPixExtra]

Makoto Yuki is the most generic name they could've gone with so how about nah, I'll stick with Minato

[@spydersoup8447]

Keep in mind, most of those people have never actually read the manga nor are they interested in reading them anyways, all they know about the manga is the main character has a name there and they just really like the name.

[@torainsmash7351]

Huh I always interpreted the ending as his spirit leaving and I actually really liked the frame and the art how it was done in color but I definitely agree that the story was all over the place...I bought volume 1 and started reading and kept having to check if I was reading the right one. I would like to say though despite the rough spots I really enjoyed the battle against nyx in volume X with the whole the arcana is the means by which all is revealed frames. Still I much prefer the persona 3 manga to the persona 5 one,maybe people are destined to hate the manga of the persona game they started with.

[@mijofalco6355]

My theory is that this manga was made for people who have already played the game. Otherwise there would be no way to appreciate it as a newcomer. It's impossible to understand a story if it's a complete jumbled mess. I'm sure the author knows this, so it had to be made for people who have the entire knowledge of the story. And I could truly feel the passion within this manga, The artstyle is great and the important moments are really well illustrated. However, the narrative structure is a mess. Which is the most important part of a story adaptation. That shouldn't be a mess, but it is. It's quite unfortunate. Still, I do like this manga for how well it portrayed the big moments. And it made Yukari the main waifu, which, as we all know, is the correct thing to do.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

I can't speak on the author's intent of who the manga is for, but it certainly would be tough to imagine any newcomer being convinced that Persona is a series worthy of their time. That said, glad you're on the correct team. Mitsuru and Aigis are great but Yukari is best girl.

[@gingerhoney1038]

@@NINJAMUSHI With the manga books I bought, there was a page with an Author's Note in it. It straight up said that it was intended to by read by people who had already played the game.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

@@gingerhoney1038 Even then, author's intent on who reads it is really not much of a factor in who actually reads it. Plenty of people that have never played the game will read it, likely because they've heard of Persona and want to try it out.

[@gingerhoney1038]

@@NINJAMUSHI Yeah I know. But I'm just saying that the Author did intend it to be read by people who already heard of the game. Of course, that's stupid for reasons that you said earlier.

[@ThiccFurryBoi34]

I was told he had to rush it to make the p4 manga quickly

[@knightshade2654]

8:09 This right here is the most underrated aspect of _Persona_ for me. I began with P4G on Steam, and, even though it did have many excellent social links, I would be wrong to say that I did not feel emotional connections to the kid with bickering parents and a loving grandma, a gossiper who learns from her actions, the girl who loves her senpai, the husband who was "too nice", and more.

[@spydersoup8447]

There's also a few more I remember like an owner of a model kit shop and how his place is going down because customers just aren't interested in model building anymore, and also a mother, a daughter and their dog, which their dog became sick and its health kept getting worse and worse until it dies at the end of the year, how the expanded rerelease of the game has their dog feel better in the third semester.

[@knightshade2654]

@@spydersoup8447 If you are talking about the characters in P5R, I am quite sure that the dog was a stray that the mother and daughter often took care of until it died near the end of the year. The daughter wishes for it to come back in the third semester, but, of all the people in Tokyo, she was the one who broke free of Maruki’s influence by accepting that her beloved friend was gone.

[@AbelMusa]

This is why I didn't like P5. Most social links, specially the women, seem designed to fawn over the main character. It makes the game so condescending, like the game itself thinks you're an antisocial loser who wants to play pretend. P3 felt more real, grounded.

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

...This is a video about P3, why bringing P5 up?

[@NINJAMUSHI]

Tbf, I talked about the social links and character writing of 3 while comparing them to 4 and 5. That said, I like P5R a lot more than him lol

[@spydersoup8447]

You know, that bit you mention of how the first manga book starts off is how Persona 5 starts off. Persona 5 doesn't straight up begin with Joker on the train ride to Sojiro like previous Persona games do, it starts before the third act of the story where he's escaping from what turns out to be Sae's Palace, Royal has the new flagship character turn up to help him and then he gets captured, imprisoned, and interrogated by Sae after being drugged and beaten up, and then it goes to the train ride to his new home, exactly how this manga starts off with. But there is a reason the opening begins with this which I'm sure is what the manga tried to do here, which is to get us into the story, make us wonder how did our main character got here and if we follow the story, we'll find out for sure. But it worked for Persona 5 because the theme is about imprisonment and bring hope to the public and the interrogation our main character goes through there is how the rest of the story is told all the way to where he is now, by him recalling how he got here to Sae. Plus, it helps that Joker has been drugged up and the drug itself is effecting his memory and thus, it makes it hard for him to recall the whole series of events that happened before and find out why he's here. Here, it doesn't work as well because Minato isn't really telling the story of how he got here to Ryoji, some friend of his, Elizabeth nor even the rest of his team since the last two already knew what's been happening at that point of the story. Minato hasn't even lost his memory or anything, so there's no reason for the story to start off this way and it doesn't even make sense either. Well, you can see Yukari being interviewed being asked what Minato is like and that kicks off the main story, but it's not the same as Joker being interrogated by Sae into telling her the whole story. I just thought I bring this up. Also, The4thSnake does a very good job at analyzing this manga series very well and most likely the reason why it was handled the way it was. You should go check that video out.

[@kakizakichannel]

Honestly P5 didn't do it well either

[@spydersoup8447]

@@kakizakichannel Well, everyone has their own opinions.

[@RaspyCh]

@@kakizakichannel I agree simply because the reason the reveal happened is because akechi slipping up on one very obvious word (not gonna say it the (akechi) fandom ruined it) which was the whole reason for his downfall

[@spydersoup8447]

@@RaspyCh Well, Persona 5 Royal did fix it kinda by giving Akechi a proper set-up to his story where his Confidant is a semi-proper one instead of a story-based one.

[@ma.2089]

@@spydersoup8447 5R really fixed a lot of issues with 5. The definitive and only real way to play the game

[@The4thSnake]

P4's works better as an adaptation but it's considerably less interesting than P3's with how weird 3 was structured. 4's is just the baseline of what you'd expect a Persona adaptation to be, which is a shame since the anime version is arguably the best Persona adaptation to date.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

That's pretty much what I expect. And yeah, the anime for 4 is actually pretty solid all 'round

[@archivist_13]

2 things that this video made me realize that I want to share. 1. Thanks to this I finally understand a tag in one P3 fanfiction I read. "Making fun of the P3 manga cause fuck that manga" or something like that. In the first chapter Makoto Yuki wakes up from his nap a few seconds after his friends run up and see his body and says something along the lines of "BAZINGA!" Thanks to this video I now understand the correlation. 2. It's interesting how each adaption of Persona 3 further invalidates the theme of Persona 3, with Chidori coming back in FES and confirmed to be alive in Persona 4 Arena, Shinjiro coming back in the female route of Persona 3 Portable and now Makoto Yuki himself rising from the grave in the manga, pretty soon I imagine we'll have a story about death with no death in it

[@ShizukiShirano]

I mean i can argue about how Chidori and Shinjirou actually works in the narrative, but having MC survive for no reason is the biggest mistake that should not be made as its not even P3 at that point.

[@archivist_13]

@@ShizukiShirano if you don't mind me asking, how would Chidori and Shinjiro coming back work with the theme?

[@polarbearstudio90]

@@archivist_13With Shinjiro its more about giving FEMC three ending so it will balance with its Male MC. Three girls three boys for the ending. Shinjiro and Chidori revival are optional, it means for every choice you choose, it will affect other people which is what Persona Game is.

[@Xionjoreyo]

I actually enjoyed the fact that you could not control the AI party members. It was interesting going from Mainline, where you control the demons vs persona where you are simply the leader of a group of people. The lack of true control felt appropriate to me because they are their own characters. And i felt like this was also built into the design of the games story as well. Where the characters have their own influence outside of their social links. My interpretation was that they are meant to feel more like people than any of the other games. it all felt really cohesive to me. But i definitely understand how this can be frustrating in a turn based RPG and why some people might loves games like divinity 2 but can't play it multiplayer. It sucks to wait your turn and it doubly sucks to watch your party members or friends make bad decisions in games that usually have an optimal set of actions in any given situation. Normally i like to micromanage everything. But i let it go here because at the time, it felt like i was fighting WITH akihiko not as him.

[@Fureiji88]

To be fair they didn't remove this, it's still there as an option in persona 5 and P5 royal. Not sure about 4 but regardless this feature is still there it's just an option and the reason it's not talked about is because likely a majority and yes this includes the japanese fanbase as a whole chose to have control of the characters.

[@chronica6457]

@@Fureiji88 It's also not talked about because it's made WAY worse, in the new games, atleast in 4. It's cool that they kept it in, but in 4 not only are half of the tactics options removed, but the tactics that are kept themselves are simplified, and often times party members will just ignore them anyway

[@darknessknows1235]

honestly rather than take away the lack of party member control they literally just need to expand on it. Give us the options to toggle skills off, actually give the party members better decision making AI. Look at pokemon roms for how they can even predict pokemon changes.

[@Cynicalhamptur]

As someone who's on the opposite spectrum, I can understand how the lack of controlling the character made them feel more human, but that's still bad game design since the A.I wasn't even implemented that well. I mean just look at all the videos of people dying just because a certain party member used the wrong skill instead of the one you want them to use. And before anyone says that they met no issues with the A.I and the characters always used the skills or attacks they wanted, you were simply the lucky few that didnt have to deal with Mitsuru using charm skills on a enemy when you wanted her to heal or Yukari missing every attack every god damn time (why is her agility so low?!) Additionally, before anyone says that I should have used the tactic option to set the characters to use certain types of skills, it fails pretty frequently.

[@chronica6457]

@@Cynicalhamptur Yukari's agility is low because she specifically says Bows miss often, with the trade-off being that she doesn't get knocked down when it does miss, like physical weapons sometimes do

[@star6wars1]

Wait the manga does a way worse version of what P5 does? The hell? Wait wait wait they show Mitsuru's answer backstory? The first 7 volumes sound like if you tried Baccano in a Persona which sounds like a bad idea in concept alone. I'm interested to see what the Mangaka wrote besides P3 manga to see if they could be better with a different story. The end to the video was sad but oddly fitting. Overall great video.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

yeah, I guess by the end I'm not so angry, just sad. I would've loved to see a better adaptation. But thanks, chief!

[@exyzt9877]

Simple. The scene of Ren's Capture is designed as a cold open from the bottom to the top. Everything about it is a perfect designation for the "How the fuck did we get here?!?!" story that follows it for... what even is it? if you count each heist as a seperate chapter, which is what I do, the next 6 chapters are an attempt at answering that question, not just from the player's perspective, but justifying it since the character themselves has ALSO forgotten the last half a year of their life and is in possibly mortal peril if they don't remember what the fuck happened. The moonlight bridge was never intended as such. The way that scene ends is with the reveal that defeating the Full Moon Shadows doesn't end the dark hour, that one of their leaders has betrayed them, and that they have inadvertently accelerated the literal fucking apocalypse. Those aren't exactly the kind of thing you reveal at the start of a story without destroying all suspense and immediately making everyone wary of that one character despite not really having much reason to.

[@regularshowman3208]

You know, I honestly don't see the point in adapting Persona to other mediums anyway. It just doesn't work in any other medium but a video game. The structure is tailor made for gameplay. You balance the daily life stuff with dungeon crawling stuff because neither on their own are substantial enough to hold an entire game, and combined they provide a much more complex experience. Not to mention smaller stuff like the look and feel of combat, the rhythm of the dungeon crawling, or, like you mentioned, the choice aspect to what you're going to do in a given day. You just can't translate Persona into any other medium without severely watering it down.

[@Patrick-bn5rp]

For me personally, the forced romances in FES and MC route utterly ruined the game for me. It's like... Why is an entire third of the game dedicated to undercutting the power of friendship that's so important towards the end...? (Which is why FeMC route is best route. Also because you get SLs with male party members) Also, in regards to p4, I disagree with your assessment. When it comes to how social links are handled, the characters' initial arc covers the concept of accepting one's shadow, and their social link covers the concept of implementing one's shadow. I think for P4, the way SLs are done is actually genius. And honestly, the plot of P4 isn't the kind of plot that lends itself to character development. 5 though? I dunno why party member character development isn't relevant to the plot, honestly. There aren't that many jungian themes in p5's SLs, so I don't really know what they were going for.

[@chronica6457]

5's theme isn't really very Jungian, it's mostly just "Society Bad". Every character, atleast in Vanilla, haven't played Royal, was somehow fucked over by society

[@curse-banger]

The Manga is the reason why i never call Makoto Minato

[@cryguy0000]

Although I wasn't introduced with P3 it's become my favorite in the series for similar reasons to your own, and I also have similar gripes with it. The only one I somewhat disagree with is the distain for the uncontrollable party. I think it's perfectly fine, seeing as the game doesn't expect perfect play from your whole team, and simply learning about the tactics menu and each commands' quirks should make it a non issue. I beat the answer (which is set to hard by default) with next to no issues and no real grinding because I used my knowledge of the tactics menu and my teammates.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

That's fair. Although, maybe I didn't make it clear that it isn't a matter of difficulty that prevents me from liking non-controllable party members. I just find it super annoying to deal with, mostly because I'm the type of RPG player that likes to micromanage everything. Also, because there's like 8+ turns to sit through until it's my turn again is just super boring to me. I get other people not having a problem with it, but it's just not the way I enjoy Persona at all

[@sillyfudgemonkeys]

While I've always preferred Minato's name (love the rhyme scheme, and I just never like the name Makoto...possibly thanks to School Days), I really do not like the manga nor a lot of the changes. I prefer the movies greatly and Makoto Yuki as a character more. That being said, I love the mangaka's art style, and small fun additions he did. And I love his P4 adaptation a lot more (then again I despise the anime so...that adds to it too XP). The opposite is the case with P5 compared to P3, I prefer the name Ren, but I prefer everything else with the manga. (except artstyle, I'm eh for both adaptations tbh).

[@spydersoup8447]

Even if you're willing to get past the movies' favouritism of Aigis and them ruining the important plot points for Yukari, even having her own Persona attack her (Which is still Io and not Isis at that point in the story. I wonder why they did that...) because they want to please the fanboys of Aigis and haters of Yukari?

[@sillyfudgemonkeys]

​@@spydersoup8447 Don't know why you suddenly want to reply to my comment about MC names and characterizations with Aigis and Yukari but ok we're doing this. XP "Favouritism" You mean, having Makoto react to canon events with Aigis? And then building off of that naturally? And Aigis (and Ryoji) already being the focal point early mid to end game. Yeah, it's no wonder they're going to focus on them in relation to Makoto, it's kind of weird not to go into their relationship considering their past. (oh wait we did get a bland weird version of that, it's in the manga). The drama tied to the MC/Aigis/Ryoji dynamic should be explored, esp in a medium where they have the MC talking. Also the manga showed blatant favouritism towards Yukari first, and worse at that (actually ruining multiple canon events/Aigis-only events for Aigis), but I don't hear Yukari fans cheering about that. And it's not like Yukari really gets any big *MC-centered* events (in-story/aka *outside* of SL) post Aigis introduction scene so not much is lost. Yukari's focus is more with Mitsuru once Aigis shows up (but you don't hear anyone complaining about the lack of Mitsuru/Fuuka stuff do you? and yes I am sad they don't get more screen time.....in pretty much all the adaptations, if anything they might've been the ones more messed up than Yukari). Plus both manga and movies have Yukari having issues with her Persona. The manga it leads to absolutely nothing (a lot of these changes just amount to that), while the movie it at least showcases the raising of stakes. It also makes sense why she feels so down trodden considering this girl keeps getting L's at every point with her reason to fight it makes sense she breaks at some point. All in all I like how they explore SEES questioning their resolve, I think it's more fitting to marinate in it considering the heavy topic (with it making sense Yukari is hit the hardest). Don't know why you hate that, I find it to make her more sympathetic because it's easy to understand a character that's been throwing themselves into something 100%, only to have set back after set back until it's just too much.....and then she gets the one last ray of hope she needs in her darkest hour. (and that's probs why they didn't have her persona evolve, because it would've contradicted a resolution that didn't take place just yet). Sure I'm not a big fan of the cheesy "they all find their final reason at the same time," but I'll let it slide since it gave me an in depth look of the cast at their lowest. But yes it's all the "haters'" and "fanboys'" fault. >_> There are those changes that the movie makes, but at least it feels like it's for the sake of the pacing of the medium. Manga's changes are a whole on aneurysm (and when put into chronological order it's.....not much better.......a lot of dates aren't even on the right date, and a lot of events are smushed together on top of it, it's a mess).

[@leifster7762]

The mangaka seems sincere,but WOW. How did they mess up that bad? Never mind changing the perfect ending but absolutely nuking the structure is just mindblowing to me. How could you do that when you love what you're adapting from and not realizing you're ruing everything. On a more positive note,I really like your beginning sections of the video. It reminded me of why I love and think Persona 3 is amazing. How the characters are handled so that the cast is leagues better than 4 or 5 and how independent they are of the protagonist and not to mention how he's still important to them all. Also how you spoke my thoughts on the way P3 balancing social life and rpg battles. It's why I love Tartarus. I love P3's gameplay even if P5 can feel more fun to me because it's so streamlined. Made me really glad I watched this video. And makes me motivated to replay Persona 3 again sometime. But just saying that what you said about the AI party member makes me think you don't know how to use Tactics commands sorry

[@NINJAMUSHI]

I should have clarified, I don't dislike tactics because it's hard or challenging. I just dislike it because I find it super tedious and boring and I don't think that'll ever change. Having to wait my turn to make a choice in battle when there's 8 characters on screen just puts me to sleep. Hate the waiting and minimal influence I have, especially because I like micromanagement in RPGs. Like in Devil Survivor, I really enjoy having so many characters/demons to work with and make choices through. It makes it feel like I am playing a game with a lot of inner workings that I can tinker with as much as I like. That's just me though

[@johngreek8239]

C'mon, Aegis is one of the worst characters in gaming history. It is not a person but a Check box for "magical" harem girl taken from average anime series like Chobits or Oh My Goddess. Both P3 and manga are done on samd level of creativity - not a very high one. In original game half of social links are repetitive, unimaginative and boring. Like the fat-boy link. There is no fresh philosophy or ideas behind it. Manga have nothing special to offer either. This day i prefer games with better writings

[@NINJAMUSHI]

don't think I agree with much of anything you said, especially because you took the lowest hanging fruit by using the one truly bad social link in the game as the example lol (and even then, it has some pretty interesting ideas that are just misguided). I don't really need social links to be ~exciting~, I like that they have a thematic focus, and I rarely found them boring. Plus Aigis and Chobits are both pretty rad 😎

[@Ergeniz]

@@NINJAMUSHI Not sure why you wouldn't agree with him. He just told it how it is. Persona 3 and up are stock JRPGs that distract from their tedium with the sim life/social link/waifu aspects. They are popular with lonely men like us for obvious reasons; this implementations play to our escapism because real women will never touch us with a ten foot pole. We also tend to be autistic and socially awkward so its great to feel like we're back in high school and actually being a chad (because we weren't). I don't like Persona 3 and onwards but I understand. Just don't act like these games are high writing and the social sim stuff isn't there to banaid what is otherwise a meh system. Similar to Chobits and other harem anime. The character is always a fucking loser so that we can imagine ourselves in his place. He's relatable because all of us are fucking losers. I mean come on, the main character in Chobits has an 'off' switch in 'that' place. Seriously?

[@NINJAMUSHI]

@@Ergeniz I disagree because what he said isn't how it is for me? It's called having perspective, ya know? He might see it one way but that doesn't mean I, or anyone else, has to see it the same way. Speaking of, you make a lot of assumptions that paint you as a pretty sad guy, my man. You know people can play a game for reasons different than yourself without you making them out to be total losers, right? Just because you're lonely does not mean other people playing the same game as you are, you can tone down the projecting. Like, I hate to break it to you but "lonely men like us" doesn't include me and I still really love Persona 3's life sim elements (especially the SLs that explore understanding/coming to terms with death). Over the past two years, I played through P3 and 4 with my girlfriend and we both had a blast. Feel free to be downer on yourself-you could totally be a loser, I dunno you-but I'm pretty happy with my life overall, Persona waifus or not. I got my college degree, I'm creatively satisfied, I don't struggle with social awkwardness, I'm working out frequently, I have longstanding friendships, my girlfriend is great, and my family life is pretty good. Not trying to brag about how amazing my life is but I want to illustrate that someone can like the game (or Aigis) without any of the projecting you were doing. I'm generally happy and certainly not lonely, yet I still think Persona 3 is pretty rad. I don't wanna marry Aigis or some shit, I just think she's an interesting character. You don't have to but hey, there's that magically term again: ~perspective~. You can say, "don't act like it's high writing" but I'd retort with don't act like Persona 3 can't be enjoyed for reasons other than being a lonely man. Likewise, I didn't really relate with the protagonist of Chobits in any meaningful way but thought it was still a good manga. Even the vagina button, which is admittedly cringe, has a pretty interesting point in the end (only in the manga, I think). That said, I truly hope things get better for you, because it sounds like you need a breath of fresh air in your life, chief. Stop calling yourself a loser and get out in the world. Take care out there! edit: also, only 5 out of 22 social links are romantic. There's plenty to the social link that are non-romantic. Like, a majority.

[@Ergeniz]

@@NINJAMUSHI The escapism may not apply to you, but you have to admit it does to a lot of people. Games with dating sims and waifu options becoming more popular in correlation with the current social climate simply can't be a coincidence.

[@chronica6457]

@@NINJAMUSHI You're arguing with the Persona purist loser. Just save your time, he'll just say "waifus bad" and continue to ignore the harem bullshit that both P1 and P2IS had

[@maxiargos1971]

Honestly. If they where going to change the ending they should have just done this. It's implied that by the time the group remembers who you are, and you hear there foot steps you never see them face to face as you are on Aigis lap. You are too far gone to even recognize them as you close your eyes and pass on. If the manga wanted to do something different they should have just done it where the protag is able to finally see them, He is smiling as he thanks them for everything they have done for him, and then closes there eyes and passes over. But hey, that's just me.

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

The movie kinda did.

[@jackcampbell7898]

Personally, I really like the manga adaptation of P3 it’s not perfect but eh I kinda like the unique ending

[@putrangos]

You know what, for me the best moment in P3 is talking to Junpei or Akihiko in the dorm lobby like: "hey-ya watcha doin?" then they goes: "just usual" and then Mitsuru asking whether or not we go to tartarus and I goes "Nope."

[@fenrisarts8648]

I actually agree with the ending of the Manga. It really just sucked off the meaning about Mortality of our lives. I saw some pages of the manga. As much as I enioyed the art style of the manga I do agree that story kinda sucked.

[@TheSwordsman100]

Yeah its such a shame that the structure is a total mess that mistakenly removes the social sim elements thinking that its just filler needing of removing. Person 3 is my favorite out of the series as well but unlike some other fans I'm not opposed Chidori surviving as in canon or Makoto/Minaoto being saved by Elizabeth, (Still waiting for that Arena 3 ) after all his ultimate Persona is Jesus (who rarely appears at all in SMT) so thematically it fits. However, this is not how you bring him back, seriously it comes out nowhere and is too soon. Why even keep up the pretense that he is sacrificing himself at all if this was the route you where going to go?

[@K24B]

Lol i thought the online reading site was making mistake by putting the wrong chapter.

[@shroobzzz]

It’s really a shame since the illustrations look so good.

[@Ergeniz]

Indeed, its the only saving grace of this product. Makes me want to look up the artist and check his other works.

[@MagnetonPlayer_2]

The manga made people call the protag Minato so I already had it under the “why Atlus why” mark Makoto Yuki IS the canon name, fucking fight me

[@aerth6946]

The Canon Name is the name that I choose unless Atlus confirms otherwise. Fuck people that try to pick fight over names, of all things.

[@aerth6946]

@idfk lol Oh yeah? I didn't play the Dancing games at all.

[@spydersoup8447]

@idfk lol Actually, it's evident that the anime names being present in the last two games was a last minute choice. It feels like they were actually going to have the player name the protags in the two games whatever they want, but then at the last minute, they scrapped it and went with the anime names. Have you ever noticed that in both games, none of the characters in the voice game parts ever addresses the protagonists by the anime names, instead calling them "Leader" and "Joker"?

[@smoker5989]

​@@spydersoup8447 Well now Makoto Yuki, Yu Narukami and Ren Amamiya are the default names of the Protagonists if you change the games language so I think Atlus really adress them more by their anime names when you can't name them yourself

[@crimsonskrub8984]

Yeah that story was messy and disjointed but I personally liked that the MC was still alive at the end, if it was set up better lol

[@boomprower]

Hey why not read the persona5 mementos quest manga it's so good and it helps develops the main character and give interesting scenarios for the other party members and seeing the team work together is very peaceful. I was shocked this book even exist😀

[@spydersoup8447]

Plus, there's one volume which was clearly based on one of Joker's costumes from Dancing in Starlight, which exploded on the internet. Pretty much reminds me of how Dr. Eggman's exercise clothes from this one Sonic Channel artwork is made into his main athlete outfit for Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020.

[@paolocalapatia6401]

...I can't believe the manga is going make me say something I NEVER wanted to say: " I actually wanted Minato to die" :(

[@peropero2208]

I REALLY want you to review Devil Survivor 2 animation and how it's kinda weak compared to the game

[@ZhongliArchonofSwag]

It's interesting to me that you were able to illustrate to me why I dislike Persona 3 in this video, albeit entirely unintentionally. Not all of it, and I love all the characters, but rather in general it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Unlike the other two I never played it again after beating it. It didn't fully register with me, likely because of how young I was when I played it, that it was because I had a philosophical disagreement with its core message. In that death gives life meaning, as opposed to being the enemy of everything that exists. I'm afraid I can't see that viewpoint as anything but the desperate coping mechanism of people who like to think they've conquered the fear of death by accepting it. Worshipping it, even. As if a life that didn't end would somehow be invalidated by its lack of an endpoint. Honestly I find the very notion a bit disgusting, despite being able to see the ephemeral "beauty" in viewing life from such a perspective, which may sound confusing, but I mean when examining it from my own perspective versus others. Still you've allowed me to understand something that always eluded me, so thank you.

[@chronica6457]

That's kinda missing the point. Of course you have to accept death, there's no other fucking alternative. Accepting that death is an inevitability, and chosing to live your best life and become a better person because of that is not "worshiping it", it's accepting the facts, and moving on with life. That's the point, not some fancy buzzword heaven about "worshiping" or whatever.

[@chronica6457]

And yes, life would have no meaning if it didn't have an end. If we all lived forever, we had no reason to strive to be better people. Why try to live your best life when there's no end for said life. It's the fact that there's an endpoint that makes people go "oh shit, my life sucks, I need to do something about that."

[@ZhongliArchonofSwag]

@@chronica6457 Sorry, I guess I’m not making myself clear enough. There’s a difference between accepting that Death will likely occur and what I am referring to as worshipping. (Incidentally it doesn’t necessarily, as at least theoretically it’s plausible to scientifically give something permanent longevity, we just haven’t worked it out yet while retaining memory or how to apply it to human physiology should we do so, outside of cancer cells.) But what I mean about actually worshipping death, rather then simply admitting defeat to it, is that they assign actual importance to death. As if it was a good thing. As if it wasn’t the enemy of humanity. They even go so far as to claim that life would not have any value without death. That is what I am referring to by worshipping it. If “worship” is a word that you find gives needlessly religious connotations, then I’ll say “putting it up on a philosophical pedestal” instead.

[@ZhongliArchonofSwag]

@@chronica6457 That’s a pitifully narrow minded view of what motivates people, you know. It’s also ignorant of basic human nature. Humans brains are built in such a way that they will almost inevitably strive to be “correct”. It is at our core one of the most universal instincts humans have. Some people delude themselves or rationalize to achieve it, but in the end the drive will always pull at you. Its the reason why when introduced and assimilating a moral system, most humans will then strive to do the “good” thing, because it is by extension the “correct” thing. Time and mortality do not factor into this. That’s literally pseudo psychological nonsense.

[@exyzt9877]

@@chronica6457 I vehemently disagree with literally everything that was said here. Number one "Worship" refers to putting anything or anyone on a pedestal. Whether it's the concept of dreams, or of that one guy who went around healing people and was killed by the roman government for reasons, or even money. Those all fall under "Worship". There is of course, a difference between admitting death's inevitability (which I mean, immortal jellyfish exist, they defy death, we can already bend the laws of reality to a small extent, what's stopping us from finding a way to kill the grim reaper?) and saying "Without Death, Life isn't worth living." I already have huge problems with the idea of grand purpose in life. Life is meaningless by default, you create meaning out of it in the same way you create goals in a sandbox game. Life isn't worth living because it ends, Life is worth living because there's nothing else to do. And people are naturally driven to develop themselves, you don't need to hang a sword over their neck to get them to change, they'll do it on their own. As a matter of fact, removing death from the equation would fix a lot of problems since then people wouldn't be forced to do bad things just to stay alive. I thoroughly do believe that death is responsible for nearly ALL of the problems we have literally ever faced. And if I ever do go to my grave, I'll go furious that we have just accepted our enemy as unbeatable and done NOTHING about it.

[@commando7706]

...atleast MINATO LIVES IN THE END!!! :D ...I really like the P3 MC and i was... a little bit too happy that the manga Minato was the only one to actually live in the end

[@AlphaPHK]

In regards of social links being reserved for character development for party members in P4 and 5, while I do agree that P3 makes better use of everyone in your party through the entire plot, I kinda like how things are handled in P4 and 5 because I feel like by making you, the player, choose which party member you "develop" adds more replayability and uniqueness for each playthrough for each player. For example, on my first playthrough of P5, I couldn't even bother with Haru's social link because I was busy with other characters that I actually cared at the moment. (Not to mention me struggling to get the stats required to advance certain S.Links :'v) But on my second playthrough, as soon as Haru joined the party, I made my mission to focus ONLY ON HER, making the entire end game a completely different thing from my first playthrough! Not saying this is better than how things are handled in P3, I'm just saying that I like being able to choose when I'm advancing every social link in the game. :P

[@scrapyarddragon]

I took psychic damage on the reveal that minato lives in the manga.

[@Fureiji88]

Actually it's more likely the author and mangaka thought they were gonna be be finished within a specific set of volumes but executive management changed that on them. Persona is not their IP which means the writer and artist dont get to make the calls on length

[@NINJAMUSHI]

Even if that's the case, I have zero clue how it was supposed to wrap up in only 1 volume. The pacing is already extremely rushed, I don't know how the climax could possibly be cut down to a third of its length.

[@Fureiji88]

@@NINJAMUSHI I know what you mean but keep in mind that Japan in the manga industry while successful isn't that simple and there's always factors we're never fully aware of at play. This isn't to make excuses but it is something to keep in mind that not everything is within the author's control

[@recordkeepertype0662]

Game/Movie: Understandable. Manga: I have a lot of questions. First and foremost: WHY.

[@angermyode]

I may be the only one who thinks this, but I thought the ending where the MC dies was bullshit when I first played it years ago and I still think that. True, the story is about how we all have to face death because it's inevitable, but you can also say that was Ryoji's logic and that every other member of SEES decided to fight on and sock Death in the jaw. And while Death is inevitable, the MC is like 17. Most of the social links are about connecting with others, not the inevitably of death. Think about how the MC's death will affect all the people he touched. Bunkichi and Mitsuko connected with a boy who reminded them of their son, who died tragically… And then he dies, too. Maiko is trying to adjust to her new life in a new city, and one day she learns the friend she made just died inexplicably. Chihiro finally gets over the trauma that led to her androphobia, and the boy who helped her through it just dies. I could go on and on. Of course, in the moment that you see the ending it seems beautiful and poetic, but people don't think about those who are left behind and the sense of meaning of tragedy they will be left with. Some of them may never get over what happened and will be scarred for life. My mom died when I was in high school, and l it was after that I noticed that most people find it easy to talk about the beauty of this kind of ending because they've never had to deal with death in real life. It's not a poetic thing when someone dies way before their time, it's the most meaningless, absurd thing you can possibly face

[@richardshiflett5181]

Manga isn't canon. Only game and the truth as well as arena. Mc is male and bangs Yukari and aigis

[@NINJAMUSHI]

Doesn't stop newcomers from reading it

[@Ergeniz]

MC didn't bang anybody, especially Aigis. Aigis is a robot without 'that' function installed.

[@juanabreu3619]

I love the movies, even believe it tells the themes of the game, better at points than the game itself. My favorite scene is Makoto and Ryoji sharing headphones and just vibin'. It barely last but is a huge step for the protagonist, stuff that the game didn't portray that well imo.

[@jaden149]

aigis being my favorite P3 party member hurts to hear how terribly the manga handled her character arc

[@NINJAMUSHI]

I'm in the same boat; it hurts my soul a little lol

[@spydersoup8447]

The movies however did the opposite, in the worst way possible.

[@Ergeniz]

@@spydersoup8447 Everything sucks hard

[@sbfh014]

As someone who also started out with persona 3, yeah I can definitely see this as being jarring. They really did aigis dirty, huh? Hopefully 4s manga is better but damn, it's a shame about this one

[@allthedumbthingz-oc5cc]

The way you describe the story structure makes it sound like the manga author tried doing the “your probably wondering how I got here” trope & went crazy with it.

[@CheesyLizzy]

Man, well good to know I shouldn't bother with the manga now, thanks for the warning P3 is also my favorite so far out of the p3-4-5 trilogy and after finding the anime just okay I was really curious about the manga. But dang, what were they thinking when they just shuffled everything around, they could've still included all the scenes they made for the manga if they had decided to show them in their chronological order. I'd imagine telling any story out of order like this would be immensely frustrating unless said story was very specifically made to be told out fo order.

[@artificialaceattorney6822]

I actually liked the manga. Using volumes to focus on characters stories was a bit unconventional, not to mention a bit confusing for those who weren't familiar with the game, but it was a nice way to see the characters' arcs. Most of the non-party Social Links weren't very interesting or relevant to the plot, so not including them wasn't a huge loss. The fight scenes were well done, and I liked how they adapted elemental weaknesses into enemies having weak points(e.g. Emperor and Empress). Having the protagonist live in the end was a nice meta surprise for people familiar with the series.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

While it isn't for me, I like seeing a different perspective on it!

[@HamazuraGOD]

The P3 manga gave us Minato fucking Arisato and that's its biggest fucking sin

[@Akechi_The_Phantom_Detective]

This is a great video but really, isn't it redundant saying Persona 3's Manga ruined everything when Persona 4 Arena Ultimax took the SEES team and basically undermined everything they went through in Persona 3 FES? And for some reason gets a free pass for doing it. As of the current Persona entry most of them have abandoned or intend on abandoning the fight their leader sacrificed his life for. All the while the Phantom Thieves are out there on their own doing what the Shadow Operatives should've been doing in the first place taking on the threat of the Shadows while trying to save people. The Phantom Thieves are doing all this and Mitsuru can't be bothered to pick up the phone and ask for help from the guys who embody what these guys are supposed to be doing. Not to mention the fact Elizabeth is the only one trying to free his soul from the seal. I wish just one Person would address that.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

All that seems fair. I'm not that well versed in Ultimax because I don't generally play fighting games, but it sounds kinda shitty. That said, I think it's usually worse for an adaptation to be bad than for a sequel to be bad. Ultimax will never be a replacement for P3 but the manga will surely be the way a lot of people experience P3, and that's unfortunate.

[@spydersoup8447]

Well, The Answer does explain this at the end which you really need to pay attention to it to fully understand it. Plus, there's one scene in Ultimax which actually shows that Aigis had actually forgotten about Elizabeth, much like how Yu Narukami have had trouble remembering the Velvet Room and Margret at the beginning of the first Arena game.

[@Akechi_The_Phantom_Detective]

@@NINJAMUSHI Bless you Ninja that's more than fair. I will say it's interesting to see this take on P3's Manga as I'd almost heard nothing about it prior but you've definitely saved me the trouble of having to look for it. It sounds like the best way to experience P3 is either FES, Portable or The Animation. I've actually been reading a manga just recently focused on P3P's female protagonist called P3P Dear Girls and while it's not a retelling of the story, it's more of a POV chronicle of her character from other characters perspectives and... that was genuinely insightful.

[@Akechi_The_Phantom_Detective]

@@spydersoup8447 Bless you Spyder, you're right it sounds like I really need to play FES again. :D Which is never a bad thing.

[@spydersoup8447]

@@Akechi_The_Phantom_Detective Also, I don't think the 4 P3 movies are better in terms of telling the story. Sure, it's better than the manga and I really do like the protagonist being given character growth and him actually being shaken by Shinji's death, which is way better than the game. I also like the protagonist actually fully interacting and forming a bond with Ryoji. But there's one part people didn't like about it, and that's Aigis's role in this. I swear, every adaptation of P3 since the manga have really been fan-pleasing adaptations.

[@Tennosan]

The problem about Persona manga is that they are inspired, so the plot kinda changes. I love Persona 3, imo is the best of the series and my favorite game even if there are lots of flaws in this game, I knew something about it when I was a kid because even in that period other than anime games I loved to play SEGA games, like Phantasy Star Universe that is a magnificent game, and in some of them there were Persona 3 references if I'm not wrong, the PS2 era was amazing, but the first game of the series I played is Persona 5 because Persona 3 was so rare to find and expensive. Fun fact: in theory Persona 3 is the fourth game of the series because Persona 2 is a duology.

[@Xavster]

"Ikutsuki's heel turn", gotta love unexpected wrestling references. I became enamored with Persona throughout 2019 and I was overjoyed to find out that the P3 manga got an official Spanish translation, let alone my local comic book store selling it book by book over the course of two years. I followed the adaptation that way, until just a few months ago. Because of how much I like P3, I have a soft spot for the manga, but damn is it a clusterfuck or what haha. At least it validates that "Minato" cannot be a canonical name by no means.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

I totally understand having a soft spot for something, god knows I have soft spots for a lot of my old favorites that haven't held up super well haha

[@TrivatorGaming]

The only reason I started buying the manga is because 1 I don't have a PSP and 2 I couldn't watch the movies I'm not a sub watcher because either the subtitles are too fast for me or their too slow and I was hoping that the manga would be a more better paced version of the movies, but by volume 4 I realized that the manga relys too much on the assumption that the reader has played the game and thus knows the chronological order of the events. And since P3P and P4G are coming to Xbox and PS4 I decided I'm only going to be collecting the P5 Manga because that one actually is well paced and doesn't treat the protagonist like a side character

[@mraeon3728]

To be honest, I think i have only heard about this series once and I didn't even look into it but thank you for the video.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

It's a series worth looking into if you're at all interested in JRPGs. Either way, no problem! Hope you enjoyed

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

And hence why I wince when Makoto Yuki gets refered as "Minato Arisato". It reminds me of this mess.

[@raynegro666]

I wonder what you think about the P3 movies, I personally think they're pretty good

[@NINJAMUSHI]

Certainly better than the manga, but I'm still not a big fan mostly because the life simulation elements get overshadowed a lot. Could be a lot worse, though.

[@Ergeniz]

@@NINJAMUSHI To be fair, I'm not sure how one is supposed to shoehorn all that stuff into a movie? Why would you expect that?

[@NINJAMUSHI]

It's not a matter of expectation, because I don't expect it. It's like I said in the video, I just don't think it's likely that an adaptation of Persona will ever be as good as the game

[@insertjokeh3r3]

only good thing the manga gave us is the protag name which is way better then the basic generic name they gave him in the anime.

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

Bruh. Minato is also Naruto's dad's first name. It's not as ideal as you think it is.

[@NgocMai-ln6qy]

Well.... ur point about confusing plot structure is true, but only to newcomers. And clearly sogabe expected the readers to have fully experienced the game be4 reading the manga. And viewing things that way, i personally love the structure (still felt confused at first tho). I mean following the game's plot step by step is okay (like p4 manga adaption) but breaking that structure into characters arcs to me is a more creative approach, a fresher way to re experience the story. Sogabe couldnt do this with p4 manga ( given how the "char development" of the cast is chop down into a dungeon, not spanning across the game) So yeah i appreciate his approach with p3. The only problem with the structure is that it isnt suitable for new fan, but again, how many ppl would read the manga first instead of playing the game?

[@NgocMai-ln6qy]

And well while this doesnt sound too convincing, i believe sogabe want to focus more on "living" part of p3's message. Hence why chidori got revived and so was minato. I think fans r too fixated on the "death" part

[@onihero126]

I wanted to buy the Manga, before i watched the Video. But it Looks too chaotic. Great Video Overall, you earned a new subscriber.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

Thank you!

[@statz3697]

I just played p4 like last month and I’ve played 5 I’m playing p5r right now and I can’t wait to play p3.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

All great games, but 3 is my personal favorite! Hope you enjoy the rest of P5R and 3 when you get to it!

[@kevinSniper-zf7mq]

P3 is my least favorite, and I went with high expectations

[@YungTimeWeaver]

Just because Minato stands up at the end doesn’t mean he lives. The author even said he left it up to interpretation. He could’ve still died after seeing his friends.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

But that isn't communicated at all. Someone that is new to the series will have a zero chance of thinking he died. Shouldn't be left up to interpretation either imo

[@YungTimeWeaver]

@@NINJAMUSHI To be fair, a lot of people didn’t even know he died in the original game. At least back then I remember alot of people thinking he just went to sleep. Until the answer confirmed he did indeed die.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

But that's the difference of people missing subtle storytelling and a story being interpretive. The ending of p3 isn't up for interpretation, it's just subtle. Especially for the Japanese audience who could understand the lyrics for the ending song, which make it pretty obvious that protag died

[@YungTimeWeaver]

@@NINJAMUSHI to each their own bro. I’m not here to argue whether your opinions are right or wrong. Just giving you some info you probably didn’t have.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

Nah, you're all good. Appreciate keeping it respectful. Lot of people don't know how to do that lol

[@jakkufurosto]

The only reason why I read the manga is for seeing Thanatos in action

[@NINJAMUSHI]

valid reason LOL

[@snozer6966]

It seems like the manga reads a lot like a film student who's favorite director is Tarantino

[@kevinkite3418]

It's a shame the story is this messy because the manga has such good artwork!

[@Destanyxoxo]

This is a great video! Could you do one about the persona 4 manga? I heard it had it's own set of problems.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

It's something I've considered doing!

[@IHatoHandels]

The only way I can see them adapting social links outside of the way Persona 4 Ani did it is by giving the protagonist a personality

[@speedm222]

I wish more social links were written to be dependent on story progression, like the Faith in P5R which was locked halfway until the final arc

[@gavinlewis2853]

Persona 3 will always be the best persona

[@VixYW]

What if you were to read the Manga following the correct chronological order? Would make it any better? I mean, there's no saving the ending, but still...

[@NINJAMUSHI]

It would things a lot better (I've considered making a fan edit of it), but it still would be only okay imo.

[@TurboAlice]

I was trying to read the manga years ago. The whole timeskip thing made it so unreadable for me, but I didn't know the whole thing is THAT BAD.

[@amarant1275]

My friend started the manga and I´ve tried but is a total mess. I´m glad that Sogabe improved his storytelling with P4 but this one... omg. The ending, THAT ending..

[@Luis_Alvarez17]

At least the main character had a cool name. I always thought Minato was better than Makoto

[@LinkaDL]

In occident we only care for the "cool" name but in Japan they give meaning to the names. As has been said above, "True Courage" is more fitting for the MC.

[@Luis_Alvarez17]

@@LinkaDL personally I find it kinda cheesy. Like naming a character who can control fire Pyro to clue you in they use fire, using Ultron as a last name for a robot just in case you didn’t know he is one, or calling your main character Ruby and making the color red their clothes main color pallet. Though it’s cool if you find it fitting and meaningful, I personally think a name should just be a name to call a character, not something more than that, again I find it cheesy.

[@Luis_Alvarez17]

@idfk lol maybe saying it sounded “cooler” was an awkward way of putting it. I think I can make a new opinion on it from what I’m getting. It sounds realistic his name wouldn’t mean the entire theme of the game, having “true courage” to face death and everything in life. If you put it like that, I think it’s just cheesy his name “fitting” is just by some chance. Names can be just names y’know? My name means famous warrior in Spanish, but I don’t think my parents choose it for the meaning and hope I’d be something like that. They couldn’t think of one and just decided to give my dad’s name in the end due to a lack of ideas. Names don’t need meaning to define someone or their life. Unrelated to this I guess, I always combine the names to make Minato Yuuki, don’t know why it was just a decision I made my first play through of the game.

[@ryukopoolpeacemaker228hd9]

Honestly I prefer the persona 2 cast more cause it's more darker than 3 but persona 3 does do good in certain ways

[@advmx3]

And here was I thinking that turning Persona 3 into a Visual Novel was the worst thing that happened to the game.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

I wish. HA

[@zackroemer9028]

its very interesting to hear why people love a game that you yourself like, but think is the least good of those you 've played

[@michaelhall736]

The Persona 4 manga was really bad as well. There were things in it that made no sense. Like someone awakens to their Persona to kill their shadows. They are literally one in the same so that makes no sense.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

yikes

[@Ergeniz]

Well..going by Persona 1 and 2 logic that actually is not necessarily true but yeah. Shadows aren't exactly consistent across all the games. Even P4 Arena brings back this concept.

[@exyzt9877]

Eh... some people have multiple shadows, most of the summoners we've seen have just one, but if the persona they awaken and the shadow they're fighting embody the same thing, that makes absolutely zero fucking sense, yeah.

[@denmark1226]

I love Persona 3 for a variety of reasons. Characters, themes, music, the style, they're great, but the thing that really made it for me was the gameplay. I will stand by the lack of direct party control, as they give you a commands list that expand as you play through the story. I will admit that it is not perfect, but if you just pay attention to the game's and use some deeper thinking, it's a fine system

[@NINJAMUSHI]

I totally get the appeal and am glad others enjoy it, it's just not for me

[@artificialaceattorney6822]

@@NINJAMUSHI I personally think the point of turn-based combat is to be able to plan your moves carefully and making every party member's actions count. AI-controlled party members work well in real time combat, in which you can't control everyone(although in some cases, it's nice to be able to pause combat and issue orders), but in turn-based combat, it takes away too much control from the player.

[@hermitfox3053]

This video made me remember the shivers that ran down my back when the death arcana social link suddenly was unlocked and rekindled my love for the game

[@marcomcgann2522]

I played p3 for the first time a few years ago, and my god that game drove me fucking insane. Part of it is prolly that I'm bad, but as bullshit as it felt a lot of the time, and even though I had to restart at one point because I was soft locked, the stuff that's good in there is so unbelievably good I've re played it 3 times since. Overcoming what felt impossible was so satisfying persona 3 is now one of my favorite games of all time. Idk if I prefer it too 5 because I find the gameplay better though

[@NINJAMUSHI]

Totally understandable. I didn't really get into it because I didn't wanna bloat the video, but I had a phase in my teens of not liking P3 much because I had also struggled with it. But, after getting over that, P3 has absolutely some of the best stuff in Persona. Though I can agree 5 has the much better gameplay lol

[@michaelhall736]

Yeah, what the hell were they thinking with the placement of the story. When I was reading it online I thought I might have accidentally clicked on a later chapter or volume because that can happen sometimes or that the site messed up the placement of the pages somehow. It's like all the pages were tore out of it, scattered, then put back in at random. The Persona 4 manga may be bad like I said but even then it's structured like the game. It didn't suddenly start at the fight against Kunino Sagiri.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

That's exactly what it feels like. I guess I'll have to find out about p4 lol

[@insertnamehere658]

Was actually gonna watch the movies, but I'm glad I went with the games. It's tied with royal as my fav (can't pick), and is quite flawed, its strong points more than make up for it.

[@shelbybayer200]

You're supposed to read the manga after playing the Game The whole manga are Flashbacks

[@Ergeniz]

That doesn't work even with prior knowledge of the plot. As a product it is still extremely flawed.

[@cupsoup7244]

Yo fr you should play 2 especially with your criticism of the other games with how they don’t properly handle their characters 1 and 2 not having social links all character development and plot development are connected also 2 got the best story and characters imo but 3 is pretty close

[@NINJAMUSHI]

I've played roughly 3-4 hours into the game but didn't continue it. Actually, I've done that 3 times lol. I thought it was super cool, though. Would love to continue it sometime soon.

[@cryguy0000]

From what I can tell 1 and 2 seem to be very repetitive gameplay wise.

[@Ergeniz]

Persona 1 and 2 were created and written by different teams. 3 adding social links and waifus for weebs was a completely new addition due to a different producer/writer. Its not a knock on the first two games. Their battle system is largely derived from devil summoner games and they hadn't fully developed a different identity yet.

[@orangesunshine7666]

maybe a hot take but I prefer the manga over the game. Out of all Persona games 3 is the only one I dislike

[@NINJAMUSHI]

Lmao. You do you, chief

[@Tabarnthebrave]

I remember. Getting the first volume of the manga. I was very disappointed when I got it. Persona 3 is such a special game for me and you talked a lot in this video why it is such a special game. The ending of this manga just kills what makes persona 3 so special.

[@NINJAMUSHI]

Yeah, it's really a shame too

[@AdamEspersona]

@@NINJAMUSHI "Makoto Yuki"? He gets a perfect ending. "Minato Arisato"? He gets to live, cheapening EVERYTHING that is P3.

[@issackoff8529]

The art is pretty, but when I read I was so confused. Since I didn't get to play Persona 3 I wanted a way to learn the story only for me to not understand what was happening.