How The White Lotus does Satire

How does The White Lotus cover so much ground and how does it tie it all together?
//Park Chan-wook's DECISION TO LEAVE is streaming exclusively on MUBI in the US, UK, and many other countries. Get a whole month of great cinema FREE: mubi.com/skipi...
The White Lotus on HBO is one of the best satires on TV, commenting on all sorts of -isms like imperialism, colonialism, sexism, and more!
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[@SkipIntroYT]

//Park Chan-wook's DECISION TO LEAVE is streaming exclusively on MUBI in the US, UK, and many other countries. Get a whole month of great cinema FREE: mubi.com/skipintro// What do you think of The White Lotus and its second season? Is it a good satire? Is it too cynical? Too optimistic?

[@sean721888]

Will u do an essay on Decision to Leave?

[@kostajovanovic3711]

Aaand, it was disappointing...

[@am1ra.6]

Hey dude, I was wondering if you could look into what I think would(in my opinion) be an interesting episode of copaganda by looking into the Need For Speed franchise. It's one of my childhood favorites but ever since I discovered this channel it's gotten me thinking a lot.

[@aminalka14]

Park Chan-wook's DECISION TO LEAVE is not streaming in Mubi. Don't confuse people please.

[@Dubs22005]

too bad they didn't tackle wokeism

[@dw309]

I loved this new season; especially the pure irony of the young character thinking he’s saving the “poor”prostitute when in reality she played him; just genius.

[@rileyambrose3444]

Seriously my favorite part

[@plants_before_people5329]

Yeah, he thinks he's better because he's "figured out" how sex workers get exploited and not realising that although that is often the case, a woman can still choose to be a sex worker and be fine with that. And then of course believing that because he "freed" her from her exploiters she will now stay with him

[@bryanbryan2968]

And Leonardo Da Vinci's mother was a prostitute, so she must have had some sort of influence and teaching over her son.

[@Judexxxxxjjjjj]

I loved albie so much… I felt like I had such a huge crush on him. I wish someone like him came into my life to save me

[@nosedondeelmarsetermina]

@@plants_before_people5329 probably one of the worst takes of all time. He literally initially saw her as a just a woman he had a connection with seeing as though he didn't even realize she was a prostitute until she asked him for money. Once he did realize she was a prostitute he was literally tricked into thinking that she being harassed and possibly abused by her pimp.

[@myong2206]

the gag is that peppa pig scene was improvised which makes it even funnier 😭😭😭

[@deadskinconsumption]

Sabrina is a genius, I love her dearly

[@deannas2778]

@@deadskinconsumption I had never heard of her before this. I saw her in interviews and she's delightful. I loved her as Valentina. Hard as exterior but really very delicate and insecure. Compelling character.

[@LuisSierra42]

@@deannas2778 in a word, Valentina is a tsundere

[@deannas2778]

@@LuisSierra42 accurate lol

[@heyyyguuurl]

Now, whenever I see Peppa Pig, I think of Tanya. 😂

[@stonecake313]

Paula was the most infuriating character for me across both seasons and I'm so glad they wrote someone like her. I can't help but roll my eyes when shows like this only have innocent, well-behaved and altruistic POC characters. Paula thought she was more self-aware than the wealthy family that invited her on their trip but in the end Paula pressured a desperate indigenous man to commit a crime and left him to fend for himself while she went back to her comfortable life on the mainland like nothing happened. A really great display of her character that I found more meaningful than any of the others.

[@Christopher-md7tf]

I think it's interesting that both seasons have a pair of young girls that are just the absolute worst lol.

[@Maria-ph2jd]

Thank u, nobody talks about her and she was the worst, she is frieds with a girl that she doesn't like just for the money and she is openly racist to white people

[@ollieenger1424]

​@Christopher and they both use sex to manipulate the men

[@noamasaf2668]

@@Christopher-md7tf idk portia isnt as entitled if i remember correctly, thought she was just pretty boring from a character standpoint, but like everyone are since they’re not written to be close to likeable lmao

[@Christopher-md7tf]

@@noamasaf2668 Wasn't talking about Portia, I meant the two prostitutes

[@thevinyltruffle]

Jennifer Coolidge is a fucking master actor in this show. Her mouth alone deserves an academy award. The stuff she does with her face is just unbelievable. I really never knew her as much more than Stiffler’s mom. And wow. She is just phenomenal.

[@AnaLucia-wy2ii]

It makes me wonder if the third season will be any good.

[@mehjauw2810]

This made me laugh so much. But yeah you're right, she was brilliant.

[@orionred2489]

Negative!.... Very negative!....

[@deannas2778]

I've always loved her, but she really got to show her talent in this.

[@LuisSierra42]

@@AnaLucia-wy2ii She'll be back (as a water zombie)

[@akshayde]

I think the point of kai's story ending off screen or the pregnant lady disappearing is exactly that. These people aren't even a 2nd thought around the wealthy. Out of sight, out of mind. Only those of us who truly care are supposed to ask.. "Hey, what happened to that guy?"

[@rebelraccoon9018]

👏🧡

[@molsondutch93]

Damn, love that take!

[@cosmicsprint]

Who was the pregnant lady?

[@akshayde]

@@cosmicsprint it was the fat on who worked at the hotel

[@kikihernandez410]

That’s one of the things Armand told the pregnant lady. He’s like be a background person pretty much invisible and only be seen when they need you to be.

[@amitnagpal1985]

“Women are depressing, and that’s ok. They have a lot to be depressed about.” - Tanya. That line will stay with me. I thought about it for days.

[@planetruths1373]

Just don't get depressed about it.

[@davideassis87]

That's gae.

[@evgenkhersonets880]

OMG, in order to say this, you need to know what's it's like to be a man. But you can't do that. Damn, you can't even tell what other women think. Everyone is depressed actually. Everyone.

[@breasonable4343]

I think you might want to find another type of girl to go out with ;-)

[@lucca8709]

@@evgenkhersonets880 men were not even mentioned in this comment

[@trinaq]

A lot of Greg's behaviour from earlier on in the season suddenly makes more sense after the finale. He's annoyed with Tanya inviting Portia along, since she wasn't part of the plan, and it would be easier to kill Tanya without her assistant lingering around.

[@bascal133]

I feel like Greg’s behavior from the first season makes more sense. Sorry but a random guy happening to stumble upon crazy sloppy Tanya and accepting all of her trauma no strings was sus to me from jump.

[@SirBubbly33]

@@bascal133 i really don’t think he planned this from season one. he was having health issues and thought he wasn’t going to live very long and tanya saved him, but they were married at this point and he felt like he was stuck with her, so he concocted this plan.

[@MichaelPybus]

@@SirBubbly33 yeah but do we know he was really deathly ill? He said he was terminal and then magically he finds a doctor after he marries Tanya who "cures" him. I think this was a set up from the beginning.

[@Mo-hz9tv]

@@SirBubbly33 i thought it was obvious what he was doing from the second they met. they made little sense together, not from the same social class, and he was clearly annoyed by her. we know Greg has known Quentin for a long time, and Quentin has been conducting predatory scams on women like Tanya for a while, so it makes sense that Greg chose Tanya as a victim. when he first met her, it was clearly a fake story that he was "trying to get into the wrong room because he was drunk", that is a known predatory move. he also ended multiple serious conversations with well-timed coughing attacks, and his story about his poor health was suspiciously timed too. in general that's just not how writers tend to write a sympathetic love interest who is genuinely dying.

[@dineinunes]

@@SirBubbly33 Of course he wasn't planning that from season one since there wasn't supposed to be a season two.

[@kiefershanks4172]

The resort manager in the first season was my favourite character. The narrative about him being a recovering addict being pushed back into his old habits in an extreme and impulsive way due to the never ending nightmare of trying to keep people happy who will never be satisfied. He is continually tempted to find a way to cope and when he gets a hold of the bag of drugs, he goes bananas to take the edge off, eventually losing his inhibitions and taking revenge in probably the most graphic, hilarious fecal scene ever. I'm sure many of us were cheering him on. He felt so powerless and so disrespected that his sole mission became using what little he had (a master key and a digested meal) to regain his sense of dignity while ironically, doing so in an incredibly undignified way. It was very interesting because the pettiness of continuously badgering for the room upgrade led to incredibly petty retaliation. The two of them completely lost their minds over pretty stupid stuff and with it leading to a death, that is a good commentary on just how unreasonable a lot of human conflict is.

[@Miaa0303]

You write beautifully

[@jennatandy6272]

The first season really should be titled The White Lotus: How Armond Snapped

[@akshayde]

I don't know, armand was a pretty shitty unsympathetic dude. The only likeable characters in season 1 were maybe the Hawaiian dudes, the teen son and the masseuse.

[@harrisonsmith958]

@@akshayde He was my least favorite character until towards the end of the season when something just clicked and he became my favorite. Something about this fake smile while constantly bullshitting and lying to every guest just became hilarious to me

[@mariamiliotis]

I am disappointed that it ended in death, that part of the stabbing was so disturbing to me

[@trinaq]

I really liked how the second season was even stronger than the first, without losing the magic of what made the original installment work. The actors all played their roles well, and the twist was very well executed.

[@callistowolf8958]

Although one thing I missed from the first season was the interaction of the guests. In first season, the guests interacted with each other at some point, and hated each other. In 2nd season, I think Portia and Albie were the only main guests who interacted.

[@edieandy1]

I loved bouth, but 1 still better for me

[@lucasshea3382]

First was better

[@Pythonzzz]

Albie’s dad and grandfather also interacted with the hooker girls, as did Justin and Cameron.

[@SuperNerd528]

@@callistowolf8958 I feel like being in a resort / Hawaii actually pushes people to interact with other guests more. When I was I. Hawaii people would ask a lot questions / be tourist friendly. Vs a European city I don’t feel like it would be the same.

[@alexdelaloire8739]

Quinn and Lucia are my favourite characters from season 1 and 2...I just love the fact that Quinn preferred exploring the culture he's visiting and be part of it while Lucia uses a system that is supposed to be against her at her advantage. They're kinda what challenge the archetypes of the main theme of the season

[@LuisSierra42]

Kinda messed up that Mia only got the job she wanted by almost murdering the guy who occupied that position before and then sleeping with the boss, reminded me of Parasite

[@alexdelaloire8739]

@@LuisSierra42 Yeah but she fits the theme perfectly. White said that the season is about "sexual selection" and her character kinda embodies that imo

[@bubblehead4270]

@@LuisSierra42 I’m glad the dude didn’t die and it sucks he ended up in the position, but he did do it to himself

[@Pythonzzz]

He was lying about helping her make connections in the music industry to get her to sleep with him anyway, so it’s hard to feel too bad for him.

[@porsche911sbs]

@@LuisSierra42 That's kinda a major theme of the show. People with power use their position to extract sex from those dependent on them. People without power use sex and seduction to advance their position in society. Mia and Lucia were in the latter group. EDIT: To shorten it, power is a means to acquire sex while sex is a means to acquire power.

[@redrumblond]

Tanya's "Do you know these gays, do you know these gays" has to be one of my very favorite lines ever 😂

[@azure113]

one thing i want someone with more knowledge than me to talk about is the costume design in the show! i was OBSESSED with it. every character had a unique and consistent style that was easily recognizable as them and really reflected their character.

[@rocco364]

AND the story line. Harper's style starts to become more playful and relaxed, from structure to colors. Portia is all over the place with random trends, to reflect her age and current mental state. Valentina stops buttoning her tops all the way up after she has sex with Mia, then even her styling reflects a more relaxed attitude. Dominic's tones reflect his current attitude and mood, the darker the meaner, the clearer the more open and relaxed. And every character gets that treatment. I watched the show a second time JUST to study the storylines told with the clothes of the characters and GODDAMN, it's amazing.

[@natalie0505]

Maybe Mina Le or ModernGurlz will make one soon!

[@joshregitz]

When they visited the house where Godfather was shot in Ep 3 they show the mannequin of Apollonia in the car and talk about her murder (car explodes). The mannequin wears the same blouse that Tanya wears in the last episode as she dies. Love these easter eggs!

[@nighttrain1565]

I'm a male and it was my favorite part lmao

[@azure113]

@@nighttrain1565 well of course because it’s amazing anyone can enjoy it

[@izkarralde7393]

as a POC working in luxury tourism, the white lotus is PERFECTLY depicting the idiots we get some times. I can’t even count the Shanes and Nicoles of my life

[@LipSyncLover]

I live and was born and raised on Maui and my husband works at one of the hotels. I honestly think it was one of the most honest and accurate depictions of the class and cultural struggles here I've ever seen. I was impressed

[@vasiamente7166]

Yeeessssss, the first season was so cool showing the visions of the employees of the Hotel, i worked for some time on a place like this and the show just shows why i give up this job LOL its exhausting dealing with people like this ... A real nightmare but i have a little fun in the time, really love this show and the reality that this represents

[@vasiamente7166]

Sorry for my english. Its not my mother language and i have some difficults writing stuff

[@AW-uv3cb]

@@vasiamente7166 Your English seems just fine and your comments are easy to understand. So don't worry about it, you're doing great!

[@kmhkennedy]

Long story: I was once lucky enough to spend the weekend at a five star private game reserve in South Africa (I live here but that’s out of my price range, we are talking helicopter landing pad and chilled towels on arrival, i.e fancy pants). One of the game drivers told me that they pretty much know where the big game is going to be at certain times of day and they only go on these long searching trips to find them because it makes people feel more like they ‘earned’ seeing the animals. It was a small reserve, so this isn’t true of all of them. Later i asked him if they have to deal with entitled douche bags (while hoping my group didn’t fit into that category) and he said most people are chill but that they do get real assholes sometimes. Being a vindictive person myself, I asked him how he dealt with them and he looked me straight in the eye and said “some people wonder why they come here and never get to see any big game.” We had seen a white rhino and two brother lions earlier and the driver had even bundu bashed to get to them on time because he thought they were going to take another route given the season, so it seemed like we were safe from the entitled asshole category. I didn’t tell anyone in my group what he had told me (it was clearly private) and it was really funny seeing everyone acting like they had ‘achieved’ something by finding so many animals, like it was a good luck or an omen. Meantime they had a good trip because they were nice to the staff. Karma in real time. when people have a bad holiday I always have a little bit of suspicious side eye, wondering if they had a bad one because they were being treated to real time karma. Moral, be nice just because it’s the right thing to do, but also because you might get to see mufasa and scar so close you could touch them. I laughed, a lot. It was more of a cackle.

[@lovemylillie1]

Portia’s character is the one I identified with the most as a young often dissatisfied woman. So in the scene where she talks about how fucked the world is and Jack disagrees, I felt called out in a good way. Because Jack is NOT speaking from privilege in this scene. He has had a tough life while Portia appears quite sheltered. She has less status than White Lotus clientele but in the scope of things still privileged enough that her worst problem is her life not being fulfilled or exciting enough. She is swallowed up by egotistical self pity and Jack calls her out on that.

[@MariaSuarez-tu9zf]

Exactly!

[@lm_b5080]

the fact that you're typing a comment on youtube watching a video about a series that's on an exclusive streaming site means you're better off than many of my fellow africans. there is a lot of beauty to be grateful about in life

[@nikkiXx19]

i think we need to stop throwing the word 'privilege' around. Portia represented a lot of new post-grad students, in their early 20's, figuring out their place in the world and trying to seek adventure out in life. A lot of people can relate to her character, she essentially represented a lot of 'gen z' people who are caught up with trends, social media, status, etc. just because Jack didn't go to college, is not as wealthy, and is just rawdogging life doesn't make him the ideal character - he just had a different path. There's nothing inherently wrong for people who dont feel like settling

[@t221000]

Isn't Jack a sex worker? That character is a mystery

[@betterknownasjen]

Great insight

[@malloryaler4040]

not to mention how Albie sold out the only two women he's ever truly loved (his own mother and sister) to the sweet tune of 50k "I refuse to have a bad relationship with women"

[@gabiluch87]

The fact that he completely betrayed his mother was so infuriating

[@yourstruly7086]

@@gabiluch87 wait what do you mean?

[@shellyscreation3339]

@@yourstruly7086 He means that Albie essentially lied to his Mother about his Dad "changing" and "always thinking about his wife".

[@traceyairhead513]

Wow I totally missed this. Thank you for commenting! How messed up

[@ThomasFoolery8]

Wait how did he betray his sister? I must have missed that.

[@leilaniz5909]

Honestly through networking and using her friend Paula is just as privileged and the craziest part was when she screwed over a local when identifying with all of his real struggles through her history book, she pressured him to steal and felt good about it and got him arrested. She didn't even own up to stealing because she was even more entitled than the people who worked for that money with their privelege. Then she waltzed off with her friend back to her privelege paradise while that local kid lost the trust of every employer on the small island.

[@thinking7667]

100%

[@endangeredlanguageschannel3441]

yep!

[@ShiftyShifts]

Paula is an absolute piece of shit, just like the rest of the cast. The overall arcing theme is oppression begats oppression, and power begats power. There will always be an upper class and a lower class an oppressor and oppressed. If you're not the oppressed you're the oppressor baby! If you get the leg up and it's "your turn to eat" like Paula said. Then she becomes the oppressor. Everything else is just noise.

[@uk999jr7]

Facts

[@C87452]

She was the villain of the season

[@Dada00x]

Nobody can play Tanya as seriously yet as funny as Jennifer Coolidge. She was able to make us feel sympathy for her even though she was a crazy character. Amazing show and so glad how Mike White put Jennifer Coolidge on the spotlight while leaving room to other characters to tell their story.

[@MrMt67859]

If you pause at 6:27 you will see a painting, which is depicting saint Lucy. To summ up the tale, Lucy didn’t want to be with a guy that didnt want to leave her alone, so much so that she gauged her own eyes out and served them to him on a plate. The attention to detail and symbolism in this show is quite admirable.

[@christianmeyer2921]

Wow, that's pretty much exactly the plot of The Banshees of Inisherin, less the sexuality

[@ginao6810]

Team Lucy!

[@vicki5322]

omg i missed that, i kept thinking about this legend during the show since she's called saint lucia (which is a holiday in sweden, where i'm from). never thought about it having thematic relevance!

[@MrMt67859]

@@emersonorange both coul be true

[@yanaverenchuk]

who do you think this painting referring to? which character?

[@SR-kh6yq]

I don’t think we should put the Testa di Moro story in a “violence by white people against the colonised” context like we can do with Madama Butterfly (written and set in the 20th century). The Testa di Moro legend is from around the year 1000 when the Arabs had invaded and were ruling Sicily, so the Arab soldier who seduced the local girl and then abandoned her would actually be the “coloniser” in this story. I'd also argue against applying modern American categories of "white" and "POC" to a story set in the Mediterranean melting pot of 1000 years ago, but that's another story.

[@greasybumpkin1661]

He can't do anything other than impose his American lense onto other nations. His sociology degree means he's enlightened you damned europeasant.

[@StNick119]

I think he wouldn't be considered a "coloniser". If I understand the explanation made by a history KZbinr correctly, and the explanation is correct, there's a difference between conquering a place and colonising it, and that colonialism as we understand it really only became a thing a couple hundred years later. The difference being is that in the former, you merely become the ruler the place, you tax it, you can set laws and whatnot, but you don't necessarily rework the entire society to be for the sake of producing resources to be sent back to the motherland, as would be done in the latter. Overall I think your point is correct. The legend doesn't neatly line up with our modern context, although I think the "modern reinterpretation" Jackson does of it here is still really interesting and worth including.

[@SR-kh6yq]

@@StNick119 I agree, the term "coloniser" also can't really be applied to this context as it is. That's why I put it between quotation marks

[@TheLittleJred]

That is what stuck out to me as well because to me the head does not only represent revenge on a unfaithful lover but also revenge on the 'conqueror'. "It's basically, you think you can come to my land, take what you please and then leave, don't think so"

[@drawntofashionillustration9596]

Dude was just a ratbag, not a coloniser. And all you guys who look to KZbinrs to give you history lessons, well, Y’all as dumb as they are.

[@ethanrummel7638]

The best satires not only mock their subject matter but also hold a faded mirror to the audience. White Lotus does a great job of this.

[@Blaisebullion]

Fantastic analysis. I disagree on one thing though: sure, Cam and Daphne were the type of privileged people that can and do ignore the problems of the world, but I do believe Jack (despite his willingness to possibly kill Portia), having seen the bottom, is genuinely trying to convince Portia of her blessings and privilege in that scene.

[@wearmeout1]

yea and he actually has a point

[@benjaminroman916]

Jack monologue on the pier is underrated. Portia was mistreated by Tanya but annoying at the same time.

[@irock550]

Albie’s story hurt me so much and it hit me the hardest. I wanted him to be good so bad but then he turned out to disappoint me still.

[@NikkiJabs]

White Lotus does a phenomenal job at showing the good and bad sides of everyone. No character is safe in White Lotus scripts.

[@popland1977]

Why was he so bad?

[@mehdimouss7977]

@@popland1977 he betrayed his mother and sister so that he can be the savior of « the poor girl that didn’t have a choice »

[@t221000]

I felt the exact same way. Hopefully he learned from his actions in the end.

[@StrongImaginationA]

@@popland1977 His whole storyline is about like not wanting to step into the shoes of a 'patriarchal male' and wanting to treat women right, but ultimately failing to do so because in his attempts to form connections with them, he still gets caught up in treating them as women (and how they relate to him) instead of as a person. His whole connection with Portia plays around him being sexually interested in her but not communicating this to her. It's the whole 'I'm a nice guy but keep getting friendzoned' spiel but make it 2023 and clad in 'woke' phrasing. He feels responsible for 'saving' Lucia from her fake pimp without looking beyond that and realizing he's being scammed. His grandfather is portrayed as this old fashioned misygynistic pig, but he's the one who directly sees through all of it and has been around long enough to see that sex and sexuality can be complex and simple at the same time, and that our society has specific ideas about faithfulness that may not always hold up. The grandfather has made choices that he's okay with, the father made similar choices that he's currently grappling with, the son is facing similar choices that he SAYS he's refusing to make but then turns around and shows himself to be the exact type of person who would make these choices in his life. It's not a coincidence the show ends with a shot of the three generations of men all turning around to look at the same young woman with curly hair while waiting in line at airport security/check in. We think feminism and women's liberation have made us go from a misogynistic society to a woman-friendly society in a century, but that's not how that goes (I'm a historian, I can say this with confidence). Men (and women) in the past could hold an immensely sexist opinion on one topic and be more progressive about the other. It's not all black and white.

[@NewJerseyRaver]

The first season intentionally dropped storylines like the pregnant worker and Kai. When their stories no longer affected the cast, they were dropped off, showing that the only thing that matters is what directly impacts our characters.

[@clarabp2613]

Exactly, it all comes back to the end when they replace the hotel manager like nothing has happened and everything continues

[@JC-yy8iv]

One of my favorite things in season 2 was [MAJOR SPOILER] . . . . . . . . Once we get to the stand-off on the yacht between Tanya and the murder gays, where she knows what’s going on, they know she knows and they’re basically tormenting her with it, this whole “campy lady and wealthy gays” dynamic starts to fall away until we see it’s just a group of men menacing and threatening violence against a woman. I’ve read what White had to say about it, and it seems his intention was for it to stand in contrast with hetero male macho violence against women, as coming from this totally different place, “these flamboyant gays wanting to decorate their houses” But personally that wasn’t what the finished product said to me at all, as a gay man who’s observed the dynamic between us and straight women since the 90s (when it was normalized for said dynamic to be extremely toxic and dehumanizing on both sides) Misogyny is misogyny when you get down to it, and gay men can be plenty misogynistic, hell often some of us are worse, because they believe they’re incapable of it as they’re doing it. Anyway despite White’s intention I think it was an excellent commentary on that.

[@MsDemonism]

Wonderful, thx you. If you look at drag, it is a satire of what they think being a woman is with the hypersexualiAtion and joke of being a woman essentially. I live a good drag show but sometimes it makes me think of what they are perpetuating on a deeper level than just the face value of the comedy that I don't think people are consciously aware as they do it and consume this.

[@otsoko66]

@@MsDemonism Drag is a thing because straight audiences love it. In re WL: Given season 1 and 2 --- where both end with the gay guys getting violently killed -- I would say that Mike White just likes to kill gay guys (his republican speechwriter dad came out as gay in the 1980s - I think he must have some serious daddy issues he's still trying [and failing] to work out). And from just about every comment I've read, straight people just effing love it when the gay guys get violently killed in the end. If you have to make them evil to justify killing them as violently as you can, yeah, well: make them evil murder gays. But it just serves to justify violently killing gay men in real life.

[@MsDemonism]

@otsoko66 Some people love it, it is more.mainstream mow so yes now straight communities are more accepting of it. Likely not ones killing them. I would never ever encourage that kind of violence. I am also speaking on myself. I love drag it is a entertainment and art I eat up. I enjoy the craft i am not dehumanizing. I am pointing out an aspect of misogyny within a sub gay community in how they depict being a woman.

[@MsDemonism]

@otsoko66 wow, I am in no way am saying what you are saying, which is a tragedy and should never happen anyone. You went right over my point which is pointing towards the misogyny within a gay community and is actually if you want to talk about dehumanizing, is dehumanizing what it means to be a woman if forget it is a comedy it's for entertainment value. But that stereotyping of women and hypersexialization of women is there. Which I would argue also leads to the erasure, and hehumanization of women.

[@jadacampbell9331]

@otsoko66 omg 😲 that explains the inspiration behind the storyline w/ the dad in season 1

[@aniketchoudhary4562]

What I like most about 'The White Lotus' is that it positions the entitlement of rich as an absurdist dark humour with one character playing the call of consciousness as the audience. These people talk like idiots sometimes but these things are not idiotic for them because they thinks it's normal for them but when we heard these things they seem fools to as these things don't matter much to us. In that case Mike White doesn't need to infuse more humour as the situations almost feels satirical and the underlying themes of privelidged, imperialism and sex politics...

[@cdedberry]

Was it harper this season? Who was it last season… Belinda?

[@aniketchoudhary4562]

@@cdedberry I think it was the two hookers, Mia and Lucia this season

[@Random___________]

@@cdedberry harper was the exact example of entitlement actually. She was narcissistic and manipulative and ended up exactlly like what she always criticized. She’s like rachel from season 1. Hating on what she’s becoming having break downs trying not to become it but at the becoming it anyway.

[@cdedberry]

@@Random___________ who do u think it is then

[@Random___________]

@@cdedberry i think it was valentina. I think it really showed that the gays with tanya could be so open about being gay bc they were rich and in power. As valentina was a woman from working class kept quiet about it for years. Also when she was eating from the box outside by herself sitting on the streets. It rlly showed the difference between life at the hotel and her real life. But this season was less about rich and poor. It was more about how sex can be used from ppl in power and how it’s viewed differently depending on your social class and status.

[@Fusilier7]

In a way, White Lotus is a modernised Downton Abbey, instead of established wealth and nobility, also called "Old money", White Lotus uses current wealth, attained via gambling and trust funds, basically "New money". What makes new money so insidious compared to old money is its ability to adapt, change its appearance, being the face of youth and modernity, and appropriation of modern vocabulary, as opposed to old money, who remained stagnant in classical ways, ignorant of the modern world leaving them behind. New money are basically chameleons, disguising themselves as allies, using the rhetoric of the downtrodden, flaunting the symbols of progress, and "Reading theory", while subtilty creating a new hierarchy for themselves. But whether it's old or new money, both are still rich and insulated from the grievances of ordinary people, their only interest is maintaining a status quo, where it is seen as "Normal".

[@qweraws6829]

Does downtown abbey have gays

[@Jasmine-id8kd]

@@qweraws6829 Yes actually!

[@ThomasFoolery8]

Where did you get “gambling and trust funds” from? Every rich character except for Tanya earned their wealth. Ethan is a tech bro so just sold his startup, Cam is a finance bro. They both went to Yale so obviously they’re smart and hard working. Italian dad was a big executive in Hollywood and his son went to Stanford so obviously they’re smart and hard working genetically. The first season has the mom who is basically an executive at Facebook, and the guy complaining about the honeymoon suite has a dad who is big in real estate. Where is “gambling and trust funds” part? It sounds like you’re just a woke leftie who has erased the word “earned” from your dictionary and you need to assume that anyone who has money never earned it, but inherited it or gambled and got lucky.

[@thomasmorrisey1681]

Except that Downton Abbey isn't in any way a social satire or critique of the systems it's depicting. It's made by a modern member of the aristocracy nostalgic for the days when his kind had even more wealth and privilege and the rest of us were even more downtrodden.

[@chrissiek8706]

​@@qweraws6829Yes, the butler, don't remember the name, dark haired pall, and one of the guest, there was a story line

[@queerlybeloved257]

The line about holding space to remember that you're human is so good. I think it's tempting to think of the world as divided into Good People and Bad People. And that mindset can make it hard for us to accept when we make a mistake or act in a way we shouldn't have. When we do Something Bad, we either think, "Oh, no! I did Something Bad, now I'm a Bad Person" and drown in guilt and despair and self-loathing... or, to avoid this, we rationalize it away: "Actually, I'm a Good Person, and what I did wasn't actually bad for xyz reasons." When really, I think the truth is more that all of us do good things and bad things, selfish things and selfless things. All of us sometimes act out of fear, act impulsively, assume the worst in others, don't exercise empathy... But the key word there is "sometimes." All of us ALSO have moments of courage, moments when we help others even if it inconveniences us, times when we really try to understand where another is coming from, times when we act thoughtfully and kindly. And that's a big part of being human. We're all of us many things.

[@lorenzoarce7406]

This is very interesting observation, and very helpful for my daily intrusive thoughts. Thank you!

[@ChrisSena]

That was so well written and insightful. Appreciated!

[@willfeen]

yep. Cultivating a safe space where we can bare all our bad, be witnessed and held by another person, and see ourselves through to the other side is the key principle of therapy, self-psychology and psychoanalytic treatment, all rolled into one! Brilliant you are.

[@Sebisajiminstan]

This is exactly the reason why cancel culture is such a stupid, narrow minded trend. Just because someone did one bad thing, sometimes years ago, doesn’t necessarily mean they are a bad person. The world isn’t as black and white as that. We are not so easy to categorize. We need to learn to be kinder to each other, and especially to ourselves. Incredibly well written, op❤ you’ve managed to perfectly articulate how i feel about this

[@gwen9939]

It also heavily influences moral standing and what someone perceives to be bad or cruel things done to other people. We are all prone to prejudice and in order to avoid putting ourselves in the same category as those we deem as "bad people", we'll draw the line of respectable behavior right at our feet: Anyone who's worse than us is a sexist/homophobe/racist, and anyone better are trying too hard in order to make themselves look good. Everyone thinks they're the moral center of our social universe and so will never recognize any behavior they carry out as cruelty, and if they do believe it's cruelty they'll think it's justified, and this spans all the way from neo-nazis to ultra-progressives. As a result, anyone who holds an inherent higher social standing are in great risk of being guilty of entitlement. Any criticism on their behavior or ignorance from the people they exert power over will be understood as an unjustified attack. It's exaggerating, the situation is not that bad, "but I'm a nice guy", and so on. But bad isn't something you are, it's something you do, and if you do something bad and actually consider yourself a good person then you'll reflect and grow from that bad thing. If you decide to deflect you're actively choosing to repeat the same pattern. "The discourse" becomes too invested in when exactly is something or someone racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, etc., so that we can properly sort the "bad people" into one box - agree on where the line is - and all it achieves is giving plausible deniability to those right on the edge, and simultaneously validates the argument that whatever counts as heinous bigotry and cruelty is a matter of opinion. Instead of trying to find America's Biggest Bigots instead we can just realize that even the smallest acts of racism and sexism are still racist and sexist, and when we're guilty of them we leave room for that mistake, look at it, apologize if anyone was affected, forgive ourselves, and learn from the experience so we can course-correct in the future. It's much less painful to learn from our small infractions slowly over time, than double down, refuse to change or admit that you've done anything wrong, stay the course and eventually be guilty of something much worse of which the pain you'll cause others you'll then have to learn to live with.

[@fandominspired7779]

Easily one of Jennifer Coolidge’s best performances. She somehow looks like she has absolutely no idea what’s going on 99% of the time and makes that look intentional rather than just bad acting. Her facial expressions were so thought through. Truly a national treasure

[@KatieBadenhorst]

Such a rare depiction of sex tourism and humanising sex workers. I just hope more seasons deal more with this topic and how it intersects with colonialism and racism.

[@ThomasFoolery8]

Nobody wants to see how it intersects with colonialism and racism. That’s a bunch of woke propaganda and this show shines BECAUSE it exposed wokism as self righteous hypocrisy. For example, the darker skinned girl who pushed Kai into stealing from the family who was kind enough to invite her was a complete hypocrite who wouldn’t confess to the police or family about her being the mastermind behind the crime.

[@Komnenit]

How does it intersect with colonialism and racism? Elaborate

[@KatieBadenhorst]

@@Komnenit I'm not an expert but if you look on YT you can find plenty of videos on this topic. Basically poorer countries cater to rich tourists with desperate locals using sex work for money. These are of course mainly white tourists who are looking for Asian or African sex workers, and tourists want an "exotic" beauty. The counties where sex work is common and mostly former colonies and the people engaging in sex work are POC so there's a big overlap with issues of colonialism and racism.

[@thedanespeaks]

Such human monsters! A murderer and a rapist. Just beautiful

[@lm_b5080]

one of the seasons should be in bali or thailand to cover this

[@kynsley565]

My husband did the print work for white lotus ( we live in Hawaii ) and I’m just watching the series now and I’m dying over seeing all of his work in almost every scene

[@emerald764]

Your husband is very talented!

[@lmn977]

That's amazing! I think it's one of the most visually exciting parts of the series

[@hardcandy9880]

Love Daphne and Harper's faces when Ethan went after Cameron. Harper was like "damn didnt know you had it in you" and Daphne was like "he's got a point, you know".

[@manus21]

the Peppa Pig line had me in stitches, I had to laugh so hard I had to pause.... I enjoyed both seasons a lot. They are quite different, not just in setting but also in pacing. With season 1, it took time to see what the characters would be like...in season 2 it's pretty clear from the get go. I really appreciate how the show manages to touch upon topics like masculinity, colonialism, sexism...in a very clear way, without being cheesy or weird. It's very well written.

[@sherrymad1421]

I wish you had talked more about the power dynamic and tension between ethan and cam more but overall great analysis

[@rai2423]

Exactly! It was also very sexual in a way. Really interesting dynamic between the two. They both hate each other but at the same time admire each other. And I think Cameron also wanted Ethan, if you know what I mean 👀

[@doedelbroesel3239]

Demeter NEVER forgave Hades for raping and hostage her daughter. In fact she let the whole world die, since she forbid the plants to grow and sheit... that was wrong

[@gawkthimm6030]

it might not be in the series; but Sicily and southern Italy in general compared to the rest of Italy is generally much, much poorer with very little opportunity, and so as a tourist area with lots of rich foreigners it sort of has the same disparity in wealth, status and power, between the local workers and the rich visitors.. They might not be colonized people of a different skin color, but they certainly come from a much poorer segment of society than in the rest of Italy.

[@yourfavoritebubbe7444]

I would just like to remind everyone that Mike White was on Survivor and almost won! I want to be like him when I grow up. He was ICONIC

[@tinabean713]

I somehow forgot that, but I really loved him and his dad on Amazing Race.

[@StevieQ]

Sicily has been colonized many times over its history and its residents have been subjected to racism in Italy due to their varied genetic background including Arabic. Italian immigrants have also been subjected to xenophobia similar to other immigrants, including as far as internment during WW2. None of this is the intended theme of this season but thought it was worth noting.

[@ShiftyShifts]

My favorite thing about the show is what it says about Albie. I found a lot of myself in him yet deep down I know I'm still just a human with carnal desires. I saved injured birds throughout my entire life. The crack in the armor was the "I am a nice guy but women don't always want that", what's funny about that statement is its what guys like him say and it's frowned upon. I immediately had a negative reaction to it. However Porscha proved the statement right through action and conversation with Tanya. We get through the whole season with Albie being a "White Knight" only to see he is really just the new generation of his father, and his fathers, father when he turns with them all and looks at the girls ass while in queue.

[@LieslIncorporated]

Maybe he learnt to embrace his natural human/male desires in the end and felt no longer ashamed of them?

[@connecting3066]

@@LieslIncorporated "natural human male desires" pathetic and unintelligent way to excuse misogyny and disrespect. stfu.

[@LieslIncorporated]

@@connecting3066 Where is the misogyny and disrespect in admiring somebody's sexual allure?

[@sunny-gt7qw]

@@LieslIncorporatedoh god please seek help. your “natural desires” are nothing more than you being extremely selfish and seeing human beings as objects. Disgusting behavior

[@sunny-gt7qw]

@@LieslIncorporatedthis has got to the most brain dead comment I have ever read. Are you kidding me? Re read it and use two brain cells next time.

[@KnightMD]

Can't believe I just got that she was implying her kids are the trainers' and not her husband's.

[@robLV]

I loved all the performances, but I especially enjoyed Lucia (Simona Tabasco). She has such an easy elegance: sexy, girly and a little dangerous with all of the glamour you want in donne italiane from those 1960s vespa, scarf and sunglasses days. I hope to see more of her.

[@shortyp1000]

Excellent recap and character analysis. Correction: Puerto Rican is not a race anfld it's a commonwealth. Puerto Ricans can be Black, white, mixed, etc.

[@pro-choicemom]

He’s referring to her as being latina which fine is still an ethnicity but it doesn’t make you white in the sense of privilege. Puerto Ricans are still seen as other unlike say Italians.

[@anhedonic-antediluvian]

@@pro-choicemom Italian were perceived and treated very differently, especially in the US, historically. Up until post-WWII America there was a much narrower definition of whiteness under which most Italians were excluded (especially if Catholic or Jewish, as these have long been inseparable from many European ethnicities). Most Italians who emigrated from Italy to the US to become the forebears of, say, the Sopranos, were leaving a nation that was under 30 years old. Nationalism wasn’t yet quite a thing, nor was the modern nation state.

[@pro-choicemom]

@@anhedonic-antediluvian I think we all know that Italians were other-ized just like Jewish folks & Irish folks but they were nonetheless included into white society after decades. The same can be said for some latinos who are white passing (european Latinos like Argentineans). The reason latinos for the most part haven’t been merged in is because we are a mixed ethnicity spanning different nations. You have afro Latinos who will never be considered white because they aren’t. So its a far more complicated with latinos.

[@dario_lind]

Also he got the “testa del moro”point he was trying to make completely twisted. The Moor was the invader in the story and it’s supposed to be a symbol of independence and obsession

[@sio6223]

@@anhedonic-antediluvian italians are very much white

[@methos-ey9nf]

I was really amused by Albie's reductionist views on The Godfather. There's a reason it's considered such a great film and it's precisely because it's a layered nuanced film that has a lot to say.

[@justthecoolestdudeyo9446]

I like how they link his shallow, yet "progressive" understanding of The Godfather and his manipulative use of progressive politics to try and seduce women

[@jb31969]

@@justthecoolestdudeyo9446 I didn't get that read at all, I found his espousing of progressive values as genuine rather than manipulative, meaning he actually believed what he was saying, rather than wielding them in order to seduce Portia. This point seems to be driven home by the fact that he employed those same talking points when convincing his father to wire Lucia the $50k. Not to mention his general naive understanding of the world in general.

[@bece00]

@@justthecoolestdudeyo9446 i feel that albies view on it is in response to men like his father and grandfather that see The Godfather's portrayal of masculinity as aspirational

[@utkarsh2746]

I read the book before I saw the movie and sorry to disappoint you but it really isn't. Mario Puzo is a good author but it wasn't some deep treatise on human nature.

[@hollym4051]

@@jb31969 Except he sold out his mom when getting his father to wire the money. So he manipulated his mom in exchange for a favor. I feel like he genuinely felt like he was being progressive, but still possessed major blindsides.

[@4nxy]

i think Daphne was subtly telling Harper that she is also unfaithful, especially after the scene where she leads Ethan to a remote part of the beach

[@MariaSuarez-tu9zf]

Right! no one mentioned this in the comments

[@Alexa-pt7fv]

I love how ethan destroyed cameron in the first clip. Definitely my fave scene in season 2

[@CadaverJunky8]

All of this was pretty much confirmed by the creator in the behind the scenes of the last episode. S1 is about race play and money, S2 is about sex and infidelity, S3 is going to be about eastern spiritualism, life and death.

[@dingus2k]

This show is phenomenal and the second season proved that they can keep making it as long as Mike White has interesting new characters and twists.

[@CanelaAguila]

Finally an in depth essay about this great show! Lovvve it

[@sandrostegmaier4990]

I hated the idea of a second season for what was a masterpiece limited series but somehow season two was even better and now I think there should be so many more seasons!

[@alexcoyg3281]

Loved the first season, the 2nd season was fantastic, no superstar actors, no dumb action and special effects, just great writing and perfect casting, Bravo!!! P.S. Peppa pig scene made me laugh out loud😂

[@Radjhitoocool]

I thought Coolidge was a super star 😢

[@billcipher3168]

@@Radjhitoocool yeah, she was also an action star in it, no less

[@Radjhitoocool]

@@billcipher3168 Idk it seemed more like a horror movie to me. Like we didn’t even get confirmation there was a real plot to murder her. The whole season I was waiting for him to make a real estate proposition kind of like the husband dude who set up the trip to make a business proposition

[@alexcoyg3281]

@@Radjhitoocool There was duct tape, rope and a gun in the bag he brought, the kid was told to take Portia away from the lady, id say they were going to at least kidnap or kill her 100%, the background French people on the boat were nervous/sad the whole time. Her husband was gay and wanted to take her money and split it with his old lover.

[@Radjhitoocool]

@@alexcoyg3281 yeah you’re absolutely right it was enough to fight for her life. There’s something about her killing everyone else that kind of just hit me weird. The lack of diplomacy when she started shooting is like the monopoly of violence the rich have. The living get to decide what happened or what was about to happen

[@BroccoliAndCheese01]

“It knows who is watching a prestige drama on HBO” I literally laughed out loud I felt so called out by this, but you’re absolutely right. This was such a great breakdown.

[@alicewren3505]

Im so excited to see where they take this in season 3, I heard somewhere they were thinking somewhere in east Asia... could be really interesting!

[@kissuck]

haha Singapore, Indonesia or the Philippines will be cool.

[@otsoko66]

Well, it's Mike White, so we can be sure that gay guys will be introduced in episode 1, and they will meet a violent death in the last episode -- and straight people will love it, as they always do when gay guys get killed.

[@sodasarbat]

There's a hint at it being in the Maldives

[@reignlopez5094]

Its in MALDIVES for season 3.

[@chelseawildflowerloftinwey1945]

@@otsoko66 Mike White is openly bisexual, so I don’t think he has a vendetta against queer men.

The North Africans that invaded Sicily were no different racially from the Sicilian women they raped and took as slaves. It is SO american to label that story as colonial.

[@theSupercasa]

Me not understanding why Cameron and Harper's marriage is so bad was a huge clue to me realizing I'm asexual.

[@ellencoffey4431]

Ethan and Harper, not Cameron and Daphne, right?

[@theSupercasa]

@@ellencoffey4431 Ethan and Harper, yep. Sorry, i got mixed up 😃

[@annikakeller5396]

Wait... plz go into detail on this for me

[@theSupercasa]

@@annikakeller5396 So they were not having sex but it was very clear they still loved each other. In my asexual eyes, that setup is totally fine in a marriage. In fact I literally didn’t understand at episode 2 where their story arch is gonna go because to me there was no problem for the plot to resolve by the end of the season. It felt like a forced problem for me. Then I realized “oh, right, I’m asexual” so I had to remember the vast majority in this world is allosexual (“normal”) people, so it makes sense for them to have this issue for 2 characters in a plot.

[@theSupercasa]

@Donald Donald I do agree with you that our world is oversexualized but at the same time I do think sex is for pleasure too, not just exclusively for making babies. I mean not for me as an asexual, but for others I guess.

[@pia1758]

This is my favorite commentary channel on media. This was too good

[@ToxiCisty]

You need to study the history of Sicily a little further. There’s a unique relationship between the north and south of Italy in regards to race, class and culture. White Lotus also features some symbolism of the Moors conquest of Sicily.

[@d.oertliche]

Tanya turning her back on Belinda because another transactional relationship was bad for her yet leading to her demise is really really on point

[@Gouthamedara]

Mike White has one good thread going through in both the seasons. That its status that corrupts more than the colour. Everyone wants to be top dog. Steve Zahns monologue perfectly put it into perspective.

[@ThomasFoolery8]

Wow wow you’re not supposed to admit that the right leaning dad is actually right haha. This is a progressive channel, so you’re supposed to frame everything through the cult-like lens of race,gender,sexuality and create a hierarchy of oppression through that. The world can only be interpreted through that lens and any disagreement makes you a bigot.

[@Gouthamedara]

@@ThomasFoolery8 I am not even white lol. But I have an outsider perspective on all things USA. For a "right leaning" dad Steve has the most relatable character. He knows rights and wrongs but also has wisdom on what can be and cant be done.

[@ThomasFoolery8]

@@Gouthamedara I know I was just trolling haha. I’m a fan of the dad played by Steve Zhan. He was completely right about everything he said. Paula’s little scheme blew up and she didn’t confess to save Kai because she would never “cede” her privilege either.

[@FirstnameLastname-zq8oy]

@@Gouthamedara are you talking about the dad from season 1? Because yes, he was far from the worst character in terms of exploiting their privilege, however he was definitely still ignorant and hypocritical, like him claiming to understand that colonialism is bad yet he still sees nothing wrong with, and freely chooses to partake in, the weird power dynamic between the white guests and the colonised people working at the hotel.

[@FirstnameLastname-zq8oy]

@@ThomasFoolery8 ^^

[@hardcandy9880]

Ethan's voice is so nice and well paced, I thought he was the narrator of this vid.

[@YouB3anz]

For me the political discourse is just the surface level for this show. The main theme is really how we all build little prisons for ourselves, rich or poor, black or white.

[@lyricallynot]

Can you explain this further, I'm not really seeing that

[@levadamusic]

That's no human ouside polítics, the little hell that we all being in is also because how power work in our society, human misery is aways connect with the dynimics of power no apart off

[@ellenspear50]

I liked Belinda, the masseuse, and wanted to know more about her.

[@kamoheloiannk617]

In the last episode the way Cam didn't wanna go to the phone ... Do you think he knows his kids aren't his?

[@artursaizikovics3433]

Yes, he knows

[@voxomnes9537]

That scene was apparently improvised.

[@skshore338]

Def

being set in Sicily doesn't remove colonial sub-text. Sicily is a colony of Italy. You just didn't notice it because you're american-centric.

[@gd5158]

Wait the Sopranos was talking about historical oppression towards Italians IN THE US, not in Italy... That's an historical fact. But yeah Sicily has been a nice mix of southern European, North African and arabic people since forever now. No real imperialism there (unless you take into account every empire that conquered that area in the last thousand years)

[@SunnyOnTheInside]

Damn you really called my smug ass out. I definitely participated in the ogling. The butt game in this show is unparalleled.

[@justagrlwithnoname]

Wonderful and intelligent analysis! Loved both seasons because apart from being so beautifully filmed the show is very smart, well written, and thought provoking

[@cohenthomas04]

8:16 “and the punchline goes, I get older but your lovers stay my age”

[@sarthakkhanna9903]

Great analysis. Probably the best one available on the internet. Almost everyone missed the overarching power element in the series.

[@SciFi2285]

Almost all the rich characters have some sort of connection to San Francisco and/or New York City. These places figure very prominently in the narrative of both seasons. Even though they never actually appear on screen. Probably because they are the epicenters of elite progressivism and cutthroat capitalism in the US. With significant overlap between the two.

[@meganh7526]

I wanted to pause on the claim that Olivia had a secret crush on Paula. While I was aware of the possessiveness and above-average physical closeness between them, I had interpreted Olivia’s attitude toward Paula to be exemplary of her emotional immaturity, lack of sincerity/authenticity, and deficit in treating her family and friends with empathy. I did a mini deep dive to see what the common feel was and it seemed to be evenly split with a lot of queer women saying they could relate to Olivia’s behaviour as an expression of jealousy over a friend turned crush starting to date. With that being said, I could relate to their dynamic because it reminded me of a friendship I had with a friend who could be very controlling, manipulative, and demanding of her friends, expecting them to be at her disposal. Apparently the official word is that while an Olivia/Paula crush wasn’t intentionally into the story but it was a fair audience interpretation.

[@anaalnsiqueira]

There is so much about Italy before it was Italy, specially about what happened in Sicily that is not exactly as simple as you put. Italy is a sociopolitically messy country, with a messy history and a lot of exploration and oppression and enslaving of Sicilians throughout history.

[@PrimerCinePodcast]

I was really surprised with this show. Started on the second season on purpose, as an experiment, knowing it was an anthology. And it got so harsh and cruel all of a sudden, pretty amazing writing

[@martiniangel]

Each season represents different themes. The first is about money. The second is about sex. The third will be about death

[@thevinyltruffle]

Can everyone who’s seen both seasons weigh in? Was Greg meeting Tanya in Hawaii intentional?

[@yuyutubee8435]

I doubt Mike White had things written out that far in advance, but it could be retconned to be the case.

[@deadskinconsumption]

It wasn’t intentional because the second season wasn’t written yet! But from the character view, it was intentional all along! It was a set up from the jump!

[@AnaLucia-wy2ii]

I don’t think so. He wanted sex.

[@freegadflyathome]

I think it was a device for Tanya to screw over the massage therapist. It did seem sincere though. Then he got healthier and realized what a mess he had gotten himself into...I think written for season 2.

[@michaeldematteis3409]

I think so,he seemed annoyed by her from the beginning.seemed like a job for him

[@TonyTime3_]

This is the best White Lotus video essay I’ve seen by far!

[@relaxationstation7634]

the first season was greed the second season is lust the white lotus is going to do all seven original sins

[@danielrubinstein896]

Like American horror story

[@anthonyscarborough3813]

I love how this season of the White Lotus took a jab at Americans who go to Italy and other European countries to “find their roots”. You’re not Italian/Irish/Polish etc. You’re American. Get over it.

[@voxomnes9537]

You're conflating nationality with ethnic origin, no?

[@anthonyscarborough3813]

@@voxomnes9537 The Di Grossos and people like them are European ethnically, but not culturally. To claim they are is insulting to people who grew up in Europe and speak Italian/Polish/Irish etc. From the point of view of the Di Grosso women in Sicily, Bert, Dom and Albie are three random strangers who don’t speak their language and claim to be their long lost cousins. How would you react?

[@voxomnes9537]

@@anthonyscarborough3813 Fair point!

[@celseac8107]

I was waiting for this comment because I didn't expect from US Americans to catch it. And it's not only the "roots" thing (paired with the fact they think we still live inthe 1950s) but also theor imperealistic attitudes towards the localz ("Do you know who I am?" is the loudest example of that)

[@sol3899]

Those statues are of the moors which are BLACK PEOPLE. those are white sculptures with black features. So that was disconcerting…love the show

[@MarkyMat23]

The WHITE LOTUS taught me that IF THIS IS THE WORLD WE ACTUALLY LIVE IN I DON'T WANNA LIVE HERE ANYMORE. 🖤😭

[@lingeringquestions519]

13:12 Was she supposed to have a crush on her friend or just be possessive but in a friendship way? That was what I thought and something I see in portrayals of friendship sometimes, kind of more for girls.

[@wombatconrad]

I read it as you did, but I now I'm not sure 😅

[@user-rz3nu3lm5r]

I think it’s meant to be ambiguous. That scene where Olivia spies on Paula having sex w Kai, she has this rlly strange expression on her face and it’s hard to tell if she just wants to control Paula or if she’s jealous of Kai or Paula or both

[@lingeringquestions519]

@@user-rz3nu3lm5r The fact that I never even thought of this and others did still gets me.

[@rosa-zh9sx]

personally, as a gay woman, as soon as paula mentioned the ways olivia has stolen her prospects, I suspected comphet (compulsory heterosexuality). comphet is a behavioral phenomenon (?) that is present in everyone, but is most deconstructed by queer women. it is a manifestation of the heteronormative patriarchal framework upheld by society, and is essentially the subconscious pressure felt by (mainly women) to maintain this framework. it has many ,,, symptoms (?) but the most prominent is a forced attraction to men. another really common behavior is competition with other women romantically. i think a lot of queer woman can attest the realness of this, that often an attraction to a woman can be reframed as competition, and results in jealousy or trying to steal the man that is getting in the way of things, by assuming an attraction to him. i also do agree though that it could be interpreted differently, but I saw this to be a very primary cause especially since i noticed several scenes between olivia and paula with a homoerotic undertone. and i do think it is not comphet alone that fuels olivia's behavior, but also of course general manipulative and possessive tendencies that she carries and that also can be common in female friendships (though one could argue that even in female friendships the possessiveness is a result of comphet but idk!). i think they definitely made it ambiguous, but as a gay woman i saw the crush aspect immediately lol

[@蜘丏陌]

testa di moro as symbol of colonial power relationship is a solely a reading from an American perspective, as actually it's an artefact of the period when Sicily was ruled by Arabic conquerors and was actively colonised by Arabic-speaking people of Maghrīb

[@emmasworld9037]

I’ve been waiting for a critical perspective on the show. Thank you so much for putting this video together. 💜

[@josip342]

Why is everybody blaming the rich guy for the beef with the hotel menager. The menager fucked up his reservation, lied to him instead of apologizing, then intentionally fucked up his romantic diner on the boat, and in the end took a shit in his room

[@yourneighbourtodoro]

Great breakdown of the themes! I know you probably didn't want to make an hour-long video, but I wish you'd touched on how even the relatively disenfranchised characters still used what power they do have against people even lower on the rung than they are. Paula using her resentment for and proximity to the Mossbacher family to (unintentionally) fuck up Kai's life; Valentina, a lesbian, using her romantic attraction and womanhood as a justification for isolating Isabella (her employee) so she can have a chance at her. There is something to be said in the show about people who are marginalized, but still privileged in one way or another, subconsciously weaponizing their identities and marginalized status to achieve their own goals. It's easier to point out when Albie uses progressive language and thoughts to justify treating women poorly or when Tanya exploits Belinda in a gross White Protagonist / Magical Negro dynamic, but I think it's a much more uncomfortable and nuanced discussion to have when discussing how queer people or POC can use their identities to harm those over whom they have control by way of another privilege they wield.

[@Katlick]

Ayyy this would be a great video essay I hope someone does it!

[@t221000]

Great point about Valentina using her power

[@soniachauhan4459]

Love your point about how we are all PART OF THE DISCOURSE in our own way. I am an upper middle class person from India and yes, my being born into a particular family gives me an edge over those who got it worse than me. I, for one, do feel shitty about the power dynamics of society but I am helpless. Yes, I do go to vacations without really thinking about those who serve me and the likes of me. Yes, I am polite and caring and I try to never take advantage but ultimately, one wonders how far does that go. And then there are those who are dowright abusive and careless with the power fortune bestowed oj them. The point probably is, no matter which side you swing on, you are a part of the problem you can't do much about. Admit it and feel shitty about it. Not admit it and be a shitty human. That is the price of being in the power game.

[@debbieakadely1212]

daphne was my fave character cause she kept it real from the beginning. was her bougie clueless self but i like the whole "refuse to be a victim" angle, cause sometimes itsa coping mechanism. Harper was smart but the whole "im better than them" energy she gave the whole time was so unlikable. and she lacked self awareness, she talked so much shit. all perfomances were amazing

[@bernicemurphy5328]

I love this series, I feel like I am on vacation with them

[@wwaxwork]

I have a litmus test for people now. I ask them what main character from either season of White Lotus is the the one you don't think is doing anything wrong or that "has a point" and then I know how they see themselves. Because not one main character in these shows is blameless or "without sin".

[@skkms910]

This video is even better after actually watching the show a year later.

[@charlotterobertson2849]

Solid commentary on the subtle and not so subtle nuances of the human psyche and shadow, that are so masterfully baked into that show.

[@vidmuncher]

The impression I'm getting is that the "Oh, you think this has nothing to do with you?" speech is eternal...........

[@Cheskaz]

Have been putting off watching The White Lotus, but this video finally convinced me! Edit: Did. Was absolute gold.

[@Indyawillis85]

Damn, maybe I should pay my HBOmax bill so I can watch that show 😂

[@deannas2778]

Yeah, do yourself a favor.

[@jules16022]

Amazing review! I am a fan now! 😊 I only watched the first season, was shocked by many parts and really wanted to hear a good quality review of a moral behind featuring these characters. So thank you! 🎉

[@mygeorgiaokeeffe]

2 is a re-envisioning of greek tragedy, with a bit of opera thrown in. Brilliant.

[@Faustobellissimo]

But the most interesting difference between the two seasons is the relationships of Americans to the location. In Hawaii the Americans end up being the ones who screw the locals (see Kai's story). In Sicily it's the locals who end up screwing the Americans (see Albi's story).

[@juniecw]

This show is proof that bisexual writers are the best because both the queer and straight relationships are so well written and feel very real.

[@rosieposie4372]

Justice for Belinda!

[@pontip3262]

the most accurate analysis and interpretation of the characters, what they symbolize and their story arcs on the show.

[@flamethrow868]

Just to clarify, Hades didn't Rape Persephone. It's a common mistake because the title of their story was mistranslated to 'The Rape of Persephone', when the original name was actually 'The Abduction of Persephone', the latin word for To seize, abduct is Raptus, thus the later confusion.

[@hellofriend545]

I always that it was an analogy to rape, but co siderite g how explicit rape is in other myths, I suppose it’s possible that Hades is more of a “gentleman abductor” than his rapey brother, Zeus.

[@animasuperfreakgirl]

Umm Actually (🧐🤓😜)while it is true the title has been mistranslated sometimes it is also correct that hades raped Persephone. It’s just some translations soften it (such as classical gods and heroes by Rhoda Hendrix). Read the article The Rape of Persephone: A Greek Scenario of Women's Initiation by Bruce Lincoln to see an examination of the text that doesn’t soften it in translation. Edit: Here’s the quote I was thinking of from the Homeric hymn : “She was sitting in bed with Hades, her bedmate,. Much against her will,” The fact she was unwillingly in bed with hades sounds like rape to me. Now I’ll admit that no translation is perfect and interpreting things differently is valid but this ‘forced bedmate’ seems pretty consistent across most of the scholarly/university sources that I have found. Edited to clarify

[@yassslay8269]

whatever you say

[@lucca8709]

The original story is older than any text about it, there are multiple interpretations even in ancient greece

[@chrissiek8706]

Ok, she was abducted first, then r *d, then forced to marry, then gained some slight independence, and they lived happily ever after 🙃