How to actually play over Giant Steps Part 7 (Messiaen modes)

How to actually play over “Giant Steps” part 7. In this video I show you how you can use a single Messiaen Mode over different groupings of chords. B mode 3 for maj7, Bb mode 3 for dom7, and A mode 3 for min7. I also take a solo at 300bpm using this concept. Please watch parts 1-6 first :)
This one was a bonus to shake off any doubts people have about using Messiaen modes over the changes. Hope you like it!
To clarify, I am not saying you should just noodle around in these scales. (I mean you can lol) But, you should extract material from Messiaen Mode 3 and use them as substitutions over the chord changes. It’s no different than extracting the ii V and I from a major scale.
#coltrane #johncoltrane #jazz #giantsteps #jazzlesson #jazzguitar #musictheory #jazztheory #jazzstandard #fusionguitar #jazzlife #musictheory #composerlife #contemporaryjazz #artmusic #musicnerd #jazzfusion #giantsteps #jazzmusic #jazzharmony

[@Don_Quesadilla]

Subscribed. Rarely will one see such high level-advice, rendered simply, and then backed up by clean, incendiary playing. Stellar.

[@jareddavismusic]

Thank you very much !! 🙏

[@SJazkid]

Bro just play

[@jareddavismusic]

did you watch the end?

[@DaMonster]

You disproved your thesis real quick at the end there. Cut that out!

[@jareddavismusic]

It is just one example. There are many ways to use the theory. If you don’t like it, make your own example

[@DaMonster]

@@jareddavismusichey I just wanna say I was being a jerk in my comment. This is a cool idea.

[@jareddavismusic]

@@DaMonster Thank you for saying that. ❤️ I believe it’s very important that musicians choose to support each other rather than put each other down.

[@AndrewJanusson]

I think you’ve misunderstood the meaning of “polytonal”.

[@jareddavismusic]

Really ? Please elaborate?

[@jareddavismusic]

If you play an arpeggio that has Bmaj7 and Ebmaj7, that is a bi-tonal arpeggio right? And If you play an arpeggio that has Bmaj7, Ebmaj7 and Gmaj7, that is a poly-tonal arpeggio right? And if you reduce the notes of that poly-tonal arpeggio down to a scale, that is a poly-tonal scale right? And then If you use 3 of those poly tonal scales to make a chord progression that connects the 3 key centers, and use that scale to write the melody, that’s a poly-tonal piece of music right? Or am I missing something?

[@AndrewJanusson]

​@@jareddavismusic Gladly. "polytonality noun poly·​to·​nal·​i·​ty ˌpä-lē-tō-ˈna-lə-tē : the simultaneous use of two or more musical keys" SIMULTANEOUS is the part your forgetting. Also, there are no such thing as "polytonal" arpeggios or scales. It doesn't make sense. 1. "If you play an arpeggio that has Bmaj7 and Ebmaj7, that is a bi-tonal arpeggio right?" Incorrect, your are simply playing a Bmaj7 and then a Ebmaj7. No simultaneity. Just because they are unrelated doesn't make it "polytonal". 2. "And If you play an arpeggio that has Bmaj7, Ebmaj7 and Gmaj7, that is a poly-tonal arpeggio right?" Incorrect, Refer to point 1. 3. "And if you reduce the notes of that poly-tonal arpeggio down to a scale, that is a poly-tonal scale right?" Incorrect. A scale is simply a collection of pitches. Once again, just because unrelated chords appear in a scale does not make it "polytonal" 4. "And then If you use 3 of those poly tonal scales to make a chord progression that connects the 3 key centers, and use that scale to write the melody, that’s a poly-tonal piece of music right? Or am I missing something?" Incorrect. Refer to point 1 and 3. Again, no such thing as polytonal scales or arpeggios. Giant steps quickly moving to 3 unrelated key centres is not polytonal, it's simply is moving keys quickly. By this logic, is "Have You Met Miss Jones?" polytonal? Also by this logic any superimposition of any chord over another chord would make it "polytonal", which is technically true I suppose, but no one who plays jazz at a high level thinks of it that way. Then every solo would be "polytonal" and that doesn't capture the true meaning of the word. I understand there is a lot of semantics in music, and we could sit here all day arguing about what certain words mean and how they can be interpreted, (especially on a colloquial level) but at the end of the day, and if thinking this way helps you, that's cool. But you're wrong when you say "Giant Steps is polytonal."

[@jareddavismusic]

@@AndrewJanusson Well I’m sorry you had to write that much. Problems with your criticism, You’re assuming the arpeggio is Bmaj7 THEN Gmaj7, when in fact it could be a blend of the two not in separate orders or groupings. Likewise with the scales. And the difference is that Giant Steps’ harmonic progression was derived from the polytonal arpeggio from Slonimsky #696. Which if compressed to a scale creates Messiaen mode 3, which can be classified as a polytonal scale depending on how you use it. (like if you derive harmonic progressions from it) Which is how Dennis Sandole would have said and taught that to coltrane.

[@jareddavismusic]

@@AndrewJanusson I would also add some suggestions for you. Google Sandole polytonal, go through the Thesaurus, and look at the giant steps melody. In the first 3 measures, you have a Gmaj7 arpeggio as the melody, and the starting chord is Bmaj7 and ending chord of the phrase is Ebmaj7.