How To Argue Against Abortion

"Michael Knowles debunks the notion that abortion is biblical.
Listen to this episode of The Michael Knowles Show on iTunes: apple.co/2FoAMJt"

[@JP-zb3yb]

Pro-choice should be honest about what abortion really means to most of them: A way to separate the pleasures of sex from consequences.

[@BrickFilmsCinema]

Very well said. I've been contemplating this a lot recently. The reason the Left and Democrats in general have been so open to abortion is because they lack the values of responsibility and will do anything to shift that responsibility to someone else. You see it with all of the social safety programs that the Left is pushing, you see it with abortion, and with the general ideology of the Left. They hate negative "judgement" because judgement generally equates to their lack of responsibility and values.

[@forestschoenrock3040]

Condoms do that, bro.

[@rachybaby72]

@@forestschoenrock3040 Well then, they should do that more, instead of using _abortion_ as birth control...

[@forestschoenrock3040]

@@rachybaby72 I'm glad you support them.

[@quoththeraven5631]

@@forestschoenrock3040 Condoms are a moral evil too.

[@TheSinicus]

It's really a lot more simple than this. Ask any pro-abortion person - who decides at which point the fetus becomes a human being? Not WHEN, but WHO DECIDES.

[@jannmacdougall1448]

Nancy Pearcey..Love Your Body(book) out youtube her..she is fantastic

[@TheSinicus]

​@Juan Pablo Andueza You're joking, right? You realize, that mother who just don't want their babies can just decide they're not babies? That's a biased judgement.

[@TheSinicus]

@Juan Pablo Andueza Exactly my point. The only serious approach to making any abortion law is by sticking to science.

[@GunNr-]

@Juan Pablo Andueza Them being angry doesn’t prove their point

[@oldworldorder9424]

Nobody remembers time in the womb. The mother at that point is doing no harm. Ever heard of a reincarnated person talking about that abortion they suffered through?. No. Apparently religous mental illness hasnt reached that stage of delusion yet. Oh, and for ever sperm down tje drain, you are going to hell for rape and murder. They will all be there to fhukhu in the ahsc.

[@arcadealchemist]

Killing babies is bad. No argument needed

[@lexmortis5722]

Arcade Alchemist A „babie“ will be born disabled and mentally retarded. It will never contribute anything to society and will live a life of pain and suffering. What do you do? Force it to live? Death is a mercy.

[@mysterqmark6349]

Lex Mortis the percentage of people who abort their child because of a mental disability is extremely low. Your argument is irrelevant when it comes to the vast majority of abortions that occur to avoid financial responsibility or responsibilities in general.

[@lexmortis5722]

@Paul And who does it? You? What is better: a life in pain or a quick and painless death?

[@lexmortis5722]

@@mysterqmark6349 My argument is only invalid if such a scenario would never happen. So: same questions.

[@mysterqmark6349]

abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/

[@avivastudios2311]

"I would calmly rip apart his arguments." I love this guy. 😅

[@goranmilic442]

One argument that pro-lifers cannot answer in logical way - do other humans have right to use woman's body without her consent?

[@avivastudios2311]

@@goranmilic442 The right to life is the most fundamental right. Sometimes it supersedes other rights.

[@goranmilic442]

@@avivastudios2311 You are contradicting yourself. If it's the most fundamental right, then why did you wrote "sometimes it supersedes"? Why not always? And if it's fundamental, then why can't any human use woman's body (or your) to survive (assuming woman or you won't die by that)?

[@Syberi388]

Michael Knowles is something else. It's refreshing to see someone with such strong faith.

[@ploof1012]

@Druhrfe Hadishia Well although he is a strong Christian, he only mentions this because he is addressing the question about another Christian man who believes that abortion is a moral good. He argues that the common Christian thought is that abortion is immoral.

[@petyrbaelish1216]

Glad we will be seeing less of that in the future.

[@iamtoohottohandle5234]

@Druhrfe Hadishia dude abortion is not a political argument, its a moral one so religion has something to do in it

[@agustinl2302]

I don't know enough about him to comment on his faith, but part of what he said here should have caught your attention - and if it didn't, you may want to look up what "confirmation bias" is, as it gets us all from time to time. Let me copy-paste a comment of mine: "So abortion is racist now? That's some far-left level smearing right there. Abortion is wrong, period. Claiming that abortion is racist is beyond stupid. Especially when you people are the ones saying "facts don't care about your feelings", and arguing that statistics themselves cannot be racist, it's extremely hypocritical to say that if someone favours abortion of future criminals, and blacks happen to be overrepresented in crime, then the person supporting abortion is racist. It's just retarded because it contradicts your own past claims. Abortion, and the particular argument of "they will be on welfare and probably criminals", is wrong for a myriad of reasons. The one Knowles presented here, about it somehow being racist, just isn't one of them."

[@avivastudios2311]

@@agustinl2302 he's saying its kinda racist cause black babies are killed the most. Black people are more likely to live in poverty. It's not the best argument but I see the logic.

[@trenton7156]

If you read jerimiah 1:5 it's says he knew you before you were formed in the womb so I believe abortion is wrong

[@JassZoigel]

if you read numbers 5:11 it's not wrong if He says so

[@GodsGladiator]

Big argument I always see is stats about kids in the foster system. And how it’s better to kill them instead of financially struggling or putting them in foster care

[@tonyaprim3047]

For every argument they give(crime, disability,poverty, etc.), we can counter with that same argument for already born people and ask if they are okay with killing them.

[@GodsGladiator]

Jarrid Gable totally blows my mind how murdering is better..... always thought it was better to be alive than dead

[@CurtisJensenGames]

A misunderstanding of overpopulation has a lot to blame for this. China is now paying for their policies on limiting childbirth. If we had 300,000 more workers, voices, and thoughts being born each year because this was eliminated our country could be a better place. Also, we'd have less people who feel okay being murderers.

[@kennymiller5837]

people crapping on knowels for bringing religion into the debate.... he didn't lol. he's talking about another christian dude who is using the christian religion as a backstop for his argument. knowels is merely using the other mans argument against him.

[@ryanstrohman7429]

Finally someone who gets it other than “hurr durr religion idiot”

[@johnnyllooddte3415]

hes not using them against him.. hes just stating the others guys argument..if you want to invoke it...moron

[@kennymiller5837]

@johnny lloddte The other guy is using Christianity as a basis for why abortion is moral. Knowels is using Christianity, the other guys argument, as a rebuttal.

[@markedfang]

To be fair, his argument was calling another religious person racist just because there's an overlap in the demographics that are 1. black and 2. children born in low-income areas to single mothers. I doubt that his religious opponent will just concede that. The racist is obsessed with race. It's why I don't like the modern Marxists.

[@cassie1421]

There are people who hear the word “Christian” and “REEEEE” as hard as a lefty at a Trump Rally.

[@DanielHernandez-qu7oz]

This is a great upload it can help me for my debate class

[@makeshiftaltruist7530]

Do NOT use this guy's advice in debate.... He is truly the worst, unless all you want to do is strawman your opponent. Ben would be better, Sam Harris even better. ;)

[@DanielHernandez-qu7oz]

@@makeshiftaltruist7530 yeah i know but in the class they separate the class into two groups pro and anti

[@isabelsanmartin3060]

I agree. Straw man argument is present here. I can understand in a class full of theologians but this is an audience of all faiths: atheists agnostics of the irreligious who don’t believe in god and/or Bible will completely discredit him. As Makeshift Altruist said listen to Shapiro. He spits up statistic after statistic about abortion.

[@makeshiftaltruist7530]

@@DanielHernandez-qu7oz gotcha mate. I think the strongest prolife argument is that it is a unique set of DNA that constitutes a new individual and thus should be given certain protections. The strongest pro choice argument is that embryos are not persons and that potential persons are not actual persons. So the argument at it's most fundamental (if your arguing over life at conception) is a difference of opinion or conception of when we say a collection of DNA is a person as opposed to a piece of a person, or potential person. Fred's severed finger is not Fred.. is a dead body still a person? Are fictional characters persons? All very facinating questions that people never get to because they get hung up on strawmaning or lost in cognitive dissonance or willful ignorance.

[@jannmacdougall1448]

Do a quick search on youtube Nancy Pearcey...she is terrific..Love Your Body(book)

[@essequamvideri]

good work knowles 👍

[@AdirondackRuby]

Right on, Michael! I feel like there are a lot of compromising "Christians" out there that will be hearing "I never knew you." when the time comes. They expect "Well done, good and faithful servant" but it won't be Jesus uttering those words.

[@yellowSmileyFacee]

Read the Bible, it literally gives instructions on committing abortion. Numbers 5:27 On top of that, Passover likely killed a ton of babies, and let's not forget God asked Abraham to kill his son.

[@AdirondackRuby]

@@yellowSmileyFacee Hahahaha! That "literally" describes a Jewish ritual used to prove/disprove a husbands claim of a wives infidelity. Read the whole chapter. It's superstitious nonsense, used to lead a woman to confess her sins for fear of such an outcome. I've read the Bible. I studied the Old & New Testament in college as a Theology major. Try again. Only God is God, only He can chose who lives or dies and when. This has nothing to do with abortion.

[@yellowSmileyFacee]

@@AdirondackRuby Thanks, will do.

[@ceo8677]

Within 6weeks the baby has a heartbeat

[@Ryan-pm1hp]

Any pediatric doctor that says abortion is okay should not have a license to practice medicine

[@JR-su4xq]

Why?

[@GonthorianPX]

What? Are you insane. A doctor isnt going to judge a person based upon their political beliefs. Abortion is legal and therefore a doctor will offer it. Its completely ethical, you think a doctor should lose their medical license because they are simply practising medicine?

[@herbvergara1]

​@@JR-su4xq Abortions that have to be performed due to an endangering of mother's life are less than half of a single percent. Please reconcile that with the Hippocratic oath.

[@herbvergara1]

@@GonthorianPX Slavery was considered legal at one time too and like abortion is a devaluation of human life.

[@GonthorianPX]

@@herbvergara1 Luckily society doesnt seem to agree with you :)

[@torin1006]

I actually got shivers from thinking about abortion.

[@Yaboikilljoy]

Because you're Nerfed

[@brandongibbs83]

Amen

[@jordanhendrix2619]

Pro choice is not a thing. It hinders on the rights of another to choose. It is pro self.

[@YTWgamer]

Typical debating tactics. The entire audience already agrees with you that a fetus is a baby. The people who disagree with you don't.

[@johnwisniewski8712]

Well said

[@ramsoncole4605]

Numbers 5:12-22 KJV

[@ERG173]

The have the right to make discissions that affect your family, but not other families.

[@higiniomorales459]

That's not a Christian, that's a Tare.

[@slobiden.2593]

You can’t make an argument about the “baby” they don’t see a baby. They see an inconvenience. You have to argue why it’s bad for the mother. So far I have two arguments. 1. Fertility rates of women post abortion are dreadful. My ex had an abortion and she Never got pregnant in 5 years of us being in a relationship. (The abortion was before I met her) 2. The mental health of the mother is also drastically affected. That ex I mentioned would wake up sobbing with what she had done. She knew deep down that there is a person that’s now dead because she chose it. She could’ve had a healthy child but didn’t. All of what Micheal said is true. But the only argument I would use in a debate is that more black kids are aborted than born which is shocking.

[@johnnyllooddte3415]

THATS A LIE.. and they know it...it is ILLEGAL to kill the eggs, offspring, or genetic reproductive tissues of 1000s endangered animals in the wild or in captivity in 100s of countries.. THEY KNOW.. THEY have personally passed the 1000s of laws

[@92bagder]

over 70% isnt it? makes sense seeing how the creator of planned parenthood was a total eugenicist. Seems like the blacks greatest enemy is themselves, high abortion rates, high chance of being raised by a single parent stable household.

[@arionassis-niarchos2895]

of course you can make the case it's wrong due to the unborn child..being a Human Life..which cannot be refuted...no matter at what stage of development that unborn Human Life is... the mother's role..is irrelevant ...the debate is about the willful killing of an Unborn Human Life... and they clearly know it's an unborn Human Life.. most of them do not have the courage to stand on their convictions to sya..declare...they are in favor of killing the unborn Human Life... . .. . .

[@avivastudios2311]

True. Good idea to look at it from the mother's perspective.

[@ChristianHernandez-mt5zq]

9 month olds have souls, they are not just a ball of cells

[@luminous6969]

Ben Shapiro's arguments about abortion are way better. I would recommend those ones over this one.

[@avivastudios2311]

He's very convincing.

[@Achromania]

It's evil. /fin

[@lexmortis5722]

Achromaniac Define evil.

[@arionassis-niarchos2895]

Evil | Definition of Evil by Merriam-Webster www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evil Evil definition is - morally reprehensible : sinful, wicked. . . e·vil Dictionary result for evil /ˈēvəl/ adjective adjective: evil 1. profoundly immoral and wicked. "his evil deeds" synonyms: wicked, bad, wrong, morally wrong, wrongful, immoral, sinful, ungodly, unholy, foul, vile, base, ignoble, dishonorable, corrupt, iniquitous, depraved, degenerate, villainous, nefarious, sinister, vicious, malicious, malevolent, demonic, devilish, diabolic, diabolical, fiendish, dark, black-hearted;. . ..

[@777thejesusfreak777]

Here’s an answer: Its murder. end

[@yellowSmileyFacee]

Not sure if stupid or just trolling.

[@jeremykurtz9031]

When does life being?

[@KiddKoalaz]

So I'm wondering, if there was a pregnant women that had complications to the point where the baby would kill the mother if she gave birth, who do you save?

[@gerrym91]

Look up the term double jeopardy. (C-section is always possible for a viable pre-born boy or girl.)

[@bogartmotomoto8222]

Both of them. That is pro life. The doctor must treat the patient and the child inside the womb. Did you know that there is such thing as removing the fetus from the womb but not the same thing as abortion ? The doctors will try their very best to treat the child in incubator as muchhh as they cann. This cases are rare. There were instances that the baby is not compatible to the mother in which the baby must deliver early so that they can treat the mother and the child and that is not the same thing as abortion. There is a huge difference between the intention of the doctors and abortionist (yeah abortionist are doctors too) . The Intention of the doctors is to treat the mother and the child while he/she is in incubator. If the baby did not last long or did not survive in incubator, its not counted as abortion. Because abortion is intentionally killing the child in order to terminate the pregnancy. There were instances that the mother only survive but not the child😢 but still not considered as abortion because the doctors did not intentionally dismember the child, just like what abortionist doing. Intention matters.

[@hanscrow2056]

Can someone link me the source for 1:54 about more black babies are aborted than born; I’m giving a persuasive speech on abortion soon

[@coldfireball6384]

www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/state-indicator/abortions-by-race/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D

[@Failzz8]

@@coldfireball6384 That's just a chart of race distribution of women who got abortions, not at all what he was asking for.

[@tb109987]

What's wrong with being more responsible, sexually? If you know for an absolute fact that you don't want to get pregnant, why not do everything in your power to prevent a pregnancy from happening? As opposed to doing something so evil, such as killing your baby. There's so many options as far as contraception, to the point where the term "accidental pregnancy" shouldn't even be a thing anymore. Of course, my point is assuming that the pregnancy happened because of consensual sexual encounters, which is the case with about 90% of abortions.

[@avivastudios2311]

So many women have no integrity or responsibilities. They have one night stands and get pregnant.

[@hritikdhaka6979]

On point.

[@hexl702too5]

Lol silly!…. How many sexually active people are there in America, of child-bearing age…. 50 million, 60 million?…. you be the judge….. Do you think a population that big will include at least a million idiots who are too stupid to use birth control… Who are too dumb to be responsible…. Or who might get carried away in an intimate moment without taking precautions?….. There must be, because every year the abortion level hovered around 1,000,000…. That’s sea level now… Stupid people having sex is a fact of life…. That will never change…. and therefore neither will unwanted pregnancy, and neither will abortion…..

[@silvershadowjsh]

Definitely. Pro choice teaches and coerces that a developing foetus has no moral value, which is wrong. So they do not see it as a mother killing her own child. Would be interesting to see how they felt about it outside of the womb. And abortions due to rape is more like 1%. 99% of the time it’s, “oh I can’t be bothered” or “I can’t be bothered grabbing a condom”.

[@kylepilon33]

Michael Knowles looks like a straight Milo Yiannopoulos

[@itsasetup8652]

Gone Monk for over a year now. If it’s her right to chose, it’s my right not to participate.

[@TickedOffPriest]

All anyone has to do is turn away from sin and ask for forgiveness and He will ceperate your sins as far as the east is from the west.

[@klscott874]

Mr. Shapiro, what's your stance on the S1 attack against our 1st Amendment rights on Israel's behalf ?

[@meghabhatt2063]

Pro life atheist here. I understand the question was in regards to a Christian pro choice person but I wish Michael had said it doesn’t matter what the speaker’s religious reasoning is because we don’t use religious reasoning to decide policy. The case against abortion is even stronger using secular arguments. Religious moderation allows people to hide behind the whole “abortion should be legal because who am I to judge only God can” type of arguments.

[@rEALLYn00B]

The question wasn't even about policy making but rather the ethics of abortion from the Christian perspective. That's why he specifically cited the Bible in response to a Christian making a claim that Christianity supports abortion.

[@avivastudios2311]

Here's my secular arguments (even though I'm a Christian): 1 we know that human babies are sentient in the room. They feel things and react to sounds and stimulus. 2 having an abortion eventually has terrible effects on the mother. They become depressed and regretful. 3 Adoption and foster care is a thing. 4 Doctor's are supposed to 'do no harm.' 5 Teenagers cannot drink or vote or drive but they're allowed to kill babies. WTF!!! 6 We all have a right to life. THAT'S THE LAW.

[@user-rh1gk3mg2f]

How is the case against abortion possibly stronger using secular arguments?

[@tysonmoore8857]

Abortions are GREAT!!! They literally saved me thousands of dollars in child support payments.

[@thicctony6236]

Tyson Moore n-n-no no its not

[@user-wp7wx7yw4i]

@@thicctony6236 y-y-yes it is

[@thicctony6236]

@@user-wp7wx7yw4i nill

[@user-eg5er2ce9t]

just put the bitch up for adoption

[@deadeye7924]

Ok but what is the actual meat of this Strat. I get allowing the opponent to state their claim and use racism as a way to shoot them down but this is only one part of the pro choice arsenal. You then have the argument of "its a womans choice" or how we justify murder all the time between animals and how we kill people abroad. If you want a pari debaters pov id say make the arguement that all babies in utero are a "prospective life", regardless if you deny my premise that they are life at the very moment they choose they would at some point be Alive. You then ask whether it should be in your power as a person to remove the agency of another. If the person is a woman then id say shift and say "if you don't enjoy people making decisions about your body to you, then why are you making those same kind of big choices for a perspective someone else" In fact legislation is normally also made with future generations in mind so its very honest to make the arguement that its at leasst similat if not a logical equivalence.

[@agustinl2302]

"Use racism as a way to shoot them down". Deplorable. If you don't see a problem in dishonestly labelling others as racists to further your agenda, you're no better than most radical leftists. If abortion is wrong, which I believe, there's no need to resort to lies and slander.

[@unitedintraditions]

What a genius...never uses the word fetus

[@goranmilic442]

Pro-lifers know that "baby" is "human being after being born", but word "fetus" isn't so emotional, so they ignore that.

[@geraldharrison5787]

If you believe in the soul, then there's no special reason to think the soul inhabits the body from conception. It could enter then - but it'd be arbitrary to be sure about it.

[@rickyo8145]

To extract the baby, they have to tear it apart, limb by limb. Sometimes having to rip it's head off. The baby feels great pain, until it dies. They sell the body parts, just like an auto salvage yard. Watch (2 minutes in) kzbin.info/www/bejne/hYu7gnWeiditprc

[@flexin-n-stuff]

at our school there is a youth in government class as a conservative I want to add my views. These people are abortionist and libs and I just hope I don't say something dumb and I look like a idiot

[@MrApontjos]

Jesus h christ what in the fuck......I gotta hear that speaker

[@esanuevamexicana]

Jesus liberated women

[@lexmortis5722]

This man should have been born 700 years ago. No arguments. Or did I miss them, because they were that bad?

[@yellowSmileyFacee]

He didn't really make any arguments besides dismissing other people's pro-abortion arguments as racist.

[@poofythedog]

you're an idiot because you also don't make any argument

[@agustinl2302]

@@lexmortis5722 Most people here are blinded by confirmation bias. I know it happens to all of us, including me, but in this channel it's just worrying (as much as in most heavily leftist channels). Particularly regarding the "Abortion is racist!" bit. Knowles should be ashamed of himself for even trying that.

[@arbretree5463]

Ever googled how an eight-week-old fetus looks like?

[@KiddKoalaz]

Every woman should have the right to decide the future of her pregnancy according to her conscience, whatever her reasons or circumstances bortion should be accepted as a safe, effective means of birth control in modern society Access to abortion is an integral part of women’s reproductive health care and women have the ethical right to receive this along with other supportive services. Legal, political, social and economic changes are necessary worldwide to allow women to exercise reproductive choice

[@hector3810]

I just have a question for people who are against abortion, What are your opinions on rape victims? I know they make up a small percent but, should they be able to abort the child if they end up getting pregnant? Also what about baby’s who’ll be born with life changing illnesses. Should parents be able to abort them? I just wanted to see a different point of view lol

[@avivastudios2311]

No they should not abort the child. The circumstances of a child's birth should not dictate whether or not it gets to live. What do you say to that?

[@hector3810]

@@avivastudios2311 You are punishing a rape victim for being raped in this instance which is incredibly cruel and insidious. We do not offer pregnant women nearly enough as it stands now. Pregnancy is expensive and always comes with the risk of death. You’re essentially damning a woman to months of hell with the risk of her dying, permanently scaring her body, and mental health because she was a victim of rape, a crime that already is incredibly traumatic for an individual to be the victim of. Over the years I’ve becoming much more pro choice. I’ve seen too many women get their medical procedures delayed because of pregnancy and too many women refused certain treatments because of the potential for pregnancy. Even women who go the lengths of attempting to get their tubes tied are met with hardship. We simply do not have the infrastructure to ban abortion, and banning abortion simply does not lower the amount of abortions. All it causes is unnecessary maternal death and roadblocks towards medical options that anyone that has the possibility of getting pregnant may have.

[@Havi-bi2kt]

@@hector3810 Abortion won't take the trauma of rape away. It will take the life of an innocent baby away. Mental or physical illnesses should never determine your value or right to live and shame on those who believe it does.

[@Mike-xh2vm]

@@hector3810 Tell that to all people born because of a rape, you are basically saying they deserve Death, also, another crime won't nullify the first crime, you are punishing the baby for the crime of the rapist. You are going a utilitarism approach, which is really concerning... With that logic let's rid off of everything that's an inconvenience in this society...

[@lasttime500]

​@@hector3810I wouldn't really call that alone as a punishment, it's a moral responsibility. Blaming someone else for something they didn't do. The two should be given help at all times like how we help disaster victims. No aid given to support or protect her and the baby is the real punishment. Pregnancy is expensive, I know that but that shouldn't mean to just terminate the baby altogether like how genocide is the answer for overpopulation. Don't want the baby after its birth? Fine, get it to adoption. There are many women who desire for having children but have miscarriages. We Pro-lifers advocate for Sex-Ed and contraception to avoid unwanted pregnancies. We condemn rape as much as you do if you didn't realized that. We just don't agree on abortion.

[@forestschoenrock3040]

This isn't honest Knowles. You've literally created a straw man. The average pro-choice individual does not mention the welfare state. Are you going to distinguish a difference between 2 weeks and 20 weeks? Not honest...

[@tonyaprim3047]

It's not a straw man at all. He is specifically addressing the question of how to respond to someone who claims to be a Christian and says that abortion is a moral good. And he has found that people who hold that position DO mention the welfare state.

[@forestschoenrock3040]

@@tonyaprim3047 Rofl, if you want to just make shit up, leave my notifications out of it.

[@dalep.2508]

What about rape victims?

[@snteevveetns]

Rape is a statistical zero for abortions.

[@dalep.2508]

@@snteevveetns I'd like to see those stats.

[@snteevveetns]

I see, no reply to facts?

[@inceldetector6148]

@@snteevveetns where the fuck are the stats

[@thiscannotbeyourname]

I've never heard that argument before. Tell me how you feel about the subject when the health of both mother and child are high risk; you could save one life or end two. What then? Is it black and white?

[@thiscannotbeyourname]

@Lizzie Allen Can you share your sources? I'm interested in your claims. Opinions are irrelevant.

[@radertrader]

First comment first oh yeah yeah

[@Strykerx31]

JP beat you by 4 minutes man.

[@JohnDoe-bt8jz]

First

[@TheRantingsofaMadman]

The moral argument should be your point, not the religious one. The religious argument against abortion fails as soon as anyone brings up psalms 137:9. God seems perfectly okay with those babies deaths because they were the other the Babylonians. Just more okay for me, but not for thee bs from the bible.

[@TheRantingsofaMadman]

​@Jose Garcia Will do if he exists. I got a laundry list of issues with him and his dad.

[@isabelsanmartin3060]

That’s a misinterpretation. David was prophesying what was going to happen to the Babylonians after that very same group were mistreating the Israelites. But since you see things skeptically, let’s be hypothetical about it. Allow a suspension of disbelief for a second and say “Okay, God is very big on the sanctities of life. So why are children dashed to pieces? What is his REAL position on it? Also, why would he execute all of those other groups in the Old Testament, “devoting then to destruction” as quoted. Two points: 1) God gives plenty of time for people to change. He gave the canaanites 400 years to change before Moses and the Israelites went to war against other groups according to God’s decree. The Israelites were also considerate enough to allow groups to surrender before they bore arms to execute the Canaanites, Hittites, Jubillites etc. (Some of them didn’t because of their own hubris) also accounts such as Rahab the prostitute and the Gibeonites show God and the nation of Israel were merciful enough to spare those who showed genuine interest in the God of Israel and who wanted to follow his standards 2) People like the Canaanites, Babylonians, Hittites, etc. Worshipped other Gods that involved in them temple prostitution, orgies and-get this-the burning of children for a sacrifice. Children. God’s position is very clear on babes being killed in the name of either religion or secularism. It also blows the belief of hellfire out of the water since that type of dogma came from-ironically-the Babylonians. So ask yourself: isn’t it we who are okay about slaughtering children? Malachi is very clear: “God doesn’t change.” Jeremiah 7:31 “The burning of children... has never even been brought up in my thoughts.” God’s own words. I understand and sympathize with your position, and I agree too: moral arguments should be the point; unless this is theology or if you’re genuinely interested in religion I don’t use my religious beliefs as a basis to argue. But you brought up Psalms and that opened the door to religion. This is to challenge you a little bit ina theological sense. I stress I do not impose my beliefs on you. Still, at the same time, do not presume something just because you’ve heard one text or read one chapter in the Bible

[@TheRantingsofaMadman]

@@isabelsanmartin3060 1. in this case his talking about the taking of innocent life and god does the common crime of the left and dispenses what he see as justice collectively. This goes against what you said because these infants had no time and no understanding of the crimes of their fathers. The left blames everyone for what their color has done. Your god does the exact same thing in it's barbaric simplicity. And the last bit about showing mercy to those who showed intrest is the same philosophy modern islamist employ in jihad, so I don't think you should tout "change to my religion or die" as at all merciful as christians are being slaughtered in the middle east currently. 2. His position about killing babies is clear yet David who many consider to be a prophet, or at least hold in high regard talks about killing infants, the innocent. I have asked myself the questions you asked before when I was losing my faith, but ask yourself this. Can a truly all knowing all loving and all powerful god who never changes really be moral if modern morality have evolved beyond that of god? Remember that no where in "the good book" does it say that is slavery is bad when done against anyone except the Iserialettes. It also advocates for selling your children to rapists and to kill them if they are disrespectful. These are all things that in a modern context we find abhorrent, would not god have known that this would be where we would go and have been there before we ever got here? Or would this god give out commandments on how to treat your slaves? I only opened the door to theology to show how easy it is for those to dismiss it who don't believe and for very good reasons. I'm not here to change your mind in this regard either, merely to point out as a nonbeliever who also agrees that abortion is immoral you win over absolutely no one by arguing the god point except those who already agree, and at the rate the abortion "movement" is going, you need all the allies you can get to stop this car and get it turned the fuck around.

[@13579lazlo]

But it doesn't matter what arguments you put forth OR your opinion in general about abortion. It only matters to the woman who's pregnant and it's HER opinion that only matters. It has nothing to do with YOU or anybody else. Nobody should force their own morality on anyone else. You say America is a free country then people should be able to exercise their own rights in a free country.

[@colealia7988]

I 100% agree with you. Who are we to condemn the choices of women? It’s their body, they can do what they want! Just like you until you’re 18, fetuses are parasites and less than human because of it. It’s so disgusting how they have to rely on other human beings to survive! I mean, if they want to kill that parasite as they give birth to it, who are we to judge? It’s not like it’s a fully formed child or anything. I think personal responsibility and intelligent decision making are super overrated. Who needs morality when you have flawed science, am I right? All jokes aside though, killing something because it’s inconvenient to you is evil and any who condone it should burn in the deepest pits of hell for an eternity.

[@13579lazlo]

And again as I said what's it got to do with YOU. Yes that's right NOTHING. Sarcasm is all well and good but let me repeat again it's not YOUR choice it's NOT your decision and it's not YOUR place to tell people how they live their lives. It's a free country and that's how it's going to stay. If you don't like that then feel free to relocate to any socialist country since it seems that's what you prefer.

[@13579lazlo]

And again your missing the point. It has NOTHING to do with YOU. We don't care what your opinion is, it DOESN'T matter. You can argue as much as you like but it's STILL has NOTHING to do with YOU. It doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter what I think. It's only what the woman thinks. That's all. We are just in an echo chamber to ourselves. I don't push MY beliefs onto other people and neither should him or you. It's that simple. Get over yourselves.

[@colealia7988]

Russell Peach So, if they’re killing children, we shouldn’t stop them? We should stand by and watch innocents perish so that a few selfish people can have peace of mind? You’re wrong, it’s got everything to do with me. It’s everything to do with everyone. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. If you sit here and ignore it, you’re just as guilty as the perpetrators. Yeah it’s HER body, but that child is a separate entity. If you kill that entity, it’s murder, plain and simple. Quit wrapping this up in the guise of women’s rights. It doesn’t have a damn thing to do with that. This is about murder and whether women should have the right to commit it on their own children, whenever they choose, free of consequence. What’s the difference between a 9 month old baby inside the womb and outside the womb? Nothing, yet lawmakers and leftists would still have you believe that aborting that child isn’t murder. It is

[@13579lazlo]

And again. It's not the governments decision, it's not your decision it's not my decision. It's the woman's decision. And up to a certain point it's not a human being it's just a collection of cells then a fetus and then it's finally a human being. BUT that's a side argument that STILL doesn't take away from the fact, and remember facts don't care about your feelings, that the ONLY persons decision is the mother.And this myth that loads of people are having abortions is just to distract from people not having a strong coherent argument. But that's also the problem with Americans, they can't seem to mind their own business and always have to insert themselves into other people's lives without the good grace to even ask. And you wonder why there are so many problems with your country.

[@bigair785]

By the Bible's standards, a grown woman is worth 3/5ths of a man, a 5-year-old male is 2/5th of a man... and a male BABY (at least one-month-old) is one-TENTH of a man, and a female baby is even LESS. Side note: The bible doesn't even BOTHER addressing the value of a newborn or a baby in the womb. Leviticus 27:3 And thy estimation shall be of the *male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old* , even thy estimation shall be *fifty shekels* of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary. 27:4 And if it be a *female* then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels. 27:5 And if it be from *five years old even unto twenty years* old, then thy estimation shall be of the *male twenty shekels, and for the female ten shekels.* 27:6 And if it be from *a month old even unto five years old,* then thy estimation shall be of the *male five shekels* of silver, and for the *female* thy estimation shall be *three shekels* of silver.

[@Rundas045]

The nation of Israel under the Old Covenant had their own rules. Not comparable to modern times in that sense.

[@bigair785]

+Rundas045 Covenant or not... today's rules or not... it shows us what the 'timeless' and perfect Yahweh valued his own creations. And btw, _The nation of Israel under the Old Covenant had their own rules. Not comparable to modern times in that sense._ ... that is a hypocritical cop-out. And even if it were true... it would negate ALL the other covenants and tenets of the OT... including 'original sin' and of course the Ten Commandments.

[@Rundas045]

@@bigair785 No my friend. Learn Biblical history in its context.

[@bigair785]

+Rundas045 Learn Biblical history in its context. Nice. Such a feeble and weak retort. I have studied... for YEARS. But you KNOW it really doesn't matter right? If you were _remotely_ correct about 'its context'.... there would be only ONE sect of Christianity. However... there are *thousands* of Christian sects that ALL believe they are the only ones that interpreted the bible accurately. Spin and squirm if you wish, the entire religion is based on bronze-aged superstitious ignorant history-hijacking goat herders. Enjoy!

[@Rundas045]

@@bigair785 for YEARS. Sure you have haha

[@paulmidgley8040]

You can argue all you want but it's just not acceptable telling a woman what she can and can't do with her body. Especially a man because he can give his opinion but he has no frame of reference. I don't always agree with the situation but it's not my body or my business.

[@silvershadowjsh]

A developing child is genetically distinct from the mother they ARE NOT the mother. Could you please define for me when you believe life begins? Because any answer other than at conception is flakey. Many abortions are coerced and there are statistics that show that mothers who have killed their child feel guilt and pro life charities help these mothers. Nobody told that mother to have sex, it was her decision. This argument of men not having a say is bad- would you tell every straight woman at an LGBT rally to go home because they have no say on the matter?

[@kbxredxk]

The right is all pro life until it comes to healthcare for the baby both born and unborn. Healthcare should be a right not a privilege. Ration by need and not by the weight of your wallet. We have children and infants in this country not seeing doctors because their parents can’t afford it, and yet the right virtue signals about abortion while also condemning the idea of government provided healthcare that would benefit infants that they claim they care so much about. I’m against abortion personally and think the parents should be responsible for their child, but there’s no reason why a family in the US has to ask themselves, “Do we get groceries or do we take our child to the doctor?”. Being pro-life is so much more than just abortions it’s also about being against taking life in general. That includes being against offensive wars, being against torture, being against infanticide (that should be a no fucking brainer), and being against any idea consider to be inhumane in general.

[@mightyswordmaster]

Except fetuses are not babies or individuals. Fetuses are living tissues in development that with the right biotic (morphogens, factors, hormones, signals, etc) and abiotic elements (pH, temperature, oxygen, mechanical priming, etc), will form a complete organism. There is no biological statement behind the anti-abortion position, (at least with the arguments this guy is proposing).

[@dcgregorya5434]

Their flesh is the same when they leave the womb. Humans continue to develop after birth. If you don't poison them or rip them apart with forceps they will survive until birth. We all require conditions to stay alive one of which is that we don't get murdered.

[@mightyswordmaster]

dcgregorya The same applies to almost every cell type from our bodies (MSCs for instance are not the same). They all continue to grow, live and develop with the right conditions. Under this rationale you kill human lives when you scratch your skin or brush your teeth.

[@beginnertoend310]

mightyswordmaster The better question is what made you decide that it was “living tissues” instead of a baby. When you were 5 years old and saw a pregnant woman did you say “how are the living tissues developing?”

[@beginnertoend310]

mightyswordmaster We’re all just living tissues, our understanding of consciousness is mediocre at best. Laws arejust the agreement as a society on what is fair, if someone thinks it’s fair to kill you because they are offended by your aesthetics what would your retort be?

[@beginnertoend310]

mightyswordmaster Im tired and I’m realizing my previous arguments probably weren’t persuasive to someone who doesn’t see the fetus as a baby. Just answer this question: at what specific point does it become a baby and you’re okay with aborting it up until that point?

[@jmt24]

He has to be one of the worst speakers on this channel, his arguments are just so terrible

[@tyler8363]

Jo Taylor I think they’re all great speakers but yeah I guess I would put him lower on the list of speakers at the Daily Wire.

[@epicvicroyepic6725]

Jo Taylor f u

[@meesterSmeeth4182]

I think his problem, compared to the others at dw, is that he is a nerd that thinks he's cool. The other guys know they are nerds and that makes them more likeable. He definitely is a smart man, but he has an arrogance about him that I don't like even though I share like 90% of his political/social opinions.

[@meesterSmeeth4182]

@Xavier Smith is he the one that was always in a car?

[@Failzz8]

I don't think abortion is "biblical", nor do I particularly care about the bible in the first place, but this guys arguments are utter strawman-trash.

[@jvlinx665]

Yall really seemed to not listen to the video and how he was talking about the Bible because the guy who was going to go there next week was going say it's moral even on a biblical standpoint

[@dcgregorya5434]

What's your argument for why abortion isn't murder? Mine is simple, they're a person with their own flesh and their own DNA. The womb is a location, kill them in the womb or out it's still murder.

[@Failzz8]

@@dcgregorya5434 That's the point where a discussion can and should be had, "when is it murder?", personally I'd put that marker somewhere in the first 30% of a typical pregnancy. However, that's just my personal opionion and completely irrelevant to why I think the arguments the speaker makes are bad. His arguments are bad because he makes it a race issue when it isn't, and because by using the word "baby" he tries to conjure up an image of killing a small child, rather than one of the several stages that lie between an actual baby and a sperm cell.

[@dcgregorya5434]

@@Failzz8 This video has a bad title. He was asked specifically how to debunk someone who says abortion is Christian. It's a pretty rare thing for someone to claim, so he went down counter arguments to claims he has heard from people with the 'abortion is moral' mindset. And I've also heard the, "These babies would be criminals" argument and yes it is pretty racist if you see it. It's not like he uses these arguments as general arguments to someone not claiming evidence from scripture. It is not actually a "how to argue abortion" video other than when he says not to yell at people.

[@Failzz8]

@@dcgregorya5434 I agree that claiming abortion to be a biblical thing is quite a unique standpoint and I'm having a hard time imagining as to why it would be, which is why I might even be interested in hearing said speakers arguments. However, me agreeing with abortion probably not being a very christian thing, doesn't make the arguments the guy in the video brings up any less garbage. How is saying these children have a high chance of becoming criminals racist? Race doesn't matter here, the guy just makes the example a black dude for the sole reason of being able to claim racism, these children would have a higher chance of becoming criminals regardless of their race. If anything it's racist as fuck to assume black color as soon as someone mentions criminals.

[@richardrandall4388]

Why did this nonsense show up on my feed?

[@Milestonemonger]

I'm pro-choice in the first trimester only.

[@William77_]

Amen