How to Autolyse Enriched Dough | Why You Should/Should Not Do It

Autolysis with fat. I have had several people ask me about this. So, here we are. Another experiment to see why we should or should not do it. Gluten is made up of two proteins, glutenin and gliadin. It is when water is added that they combine to form gluten. If flour is well hydrated it results in good gluten development. For a more detailed explanation on how to autolyse your dough click here.
By adding fat into the mix, the proteins get coated. The fat coating prevents the proteins from connecting and forming long gluten strands. That is why shortbread is called shortbread. It has truly short gluten strands resulting in a crumbly texture.
Autolysis is normally used for higher hydration ‘lean’ dough. Lean meaning that it does not contain fat. The main purpose of autolyse is to shorten mixing time thus preventing the dough from over oxidizing. This is only possible when using a mixer, but in short, a dough gets over oxidized by mixing too long and loses colour and flavour because of it. We are not powerful enough to over mix dough by hand.
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CHAPTERS
0:00 Intro
0:53 The two doughs
3:00 Kneading fist dough
5:00 Kneading second dough
7:00 Folding
8:40 Final proof
9:36 Messy experiment
11:12 Recap and conclusion
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#Bread #Baking #ChainBaker

[@ChainBaker]

📖 Read more in the link below the video ⤴️ 🌾 If you would like to support my work click here ⤵️ www.ko-fi.com/chainbaker 🔪 Find all the things I use here ⤵️ 🇺🇸 www.amazon.com/shop/ChainBaker 🇬🇧 www.amazon.co.uk/shop/ChainBaker 🥨 To learn more about bread making click here ⤵️ Principles of Baking bit.ly/principles-of-baking The Steps of Baking bit.ly/steps-of-baking

[@vq5962]

Can you make video about how to make bread super soft ?, like japanese bread, not just about yudane and tangzong but about the super soft bread that have a soft cotton like texture that didn't have crust even the outer layer is super soft.

[@zaeema]

I have a bachelor in physics and have recently taken up cooking so I’m always thinking about things from a scientific aspect. I am constantly unsatisfied with the lack of scientific explanations when it comes to most recipes on the internet and this channel, which I discovered just an hour ago, fills me with so much joy. Thank you so much for all your hard work - I am watching one video after another and can’t stop! You’ve added a whole new layer to my fascination with cooking and I salute you wholeheartedly. Thank you!

[@ChainBaker]

Thank you so much for the nice comment 🙏 I will try and make more videos on the principles of baking next year.

[@WyattOSchaefer]

Bro same here! Biochem major and none of the cooking channels explain the WHY

[@70TheProfessor]

I, too, am a physics major. I had the good fortune to marry a home economics teacher 47 years ago, so we have worked on these ideas. This channel has cleared up questions we both have had for a very long time!

[@CraigEngbrecht]

HAHAH, All these hoity toity peeps on here, and I am going in for engineering! HAHAHA Glad to see my brother and I aren't the only ones who are like, nah man this has to also be a science.

[@91YEHNAH]

@@ChainBaker same from me, mate! Love the proper explanations as to what's going on. That's how I advise friends when they try to bake - not a pro, just a hobby baker🤩

[@Kyle_Schroeder]

I’ve definitely done the last experiment once and never again 😂 Nightmare to knead by hand

[@almonies]

😂I'm having sticky flashbacks with that third dough. I tried a recipe off tiktok. Focaccia, left in the fridge for 2 nights. But I added the oil in at the beginning. I tried kneading the 'dough'...slime..sludge for about 2 minutes before I panicked and added more flour. I am starting to see my error. These videos are great. Thanks

[@elvirafarrah3642]

Incredibly informative! Thank you very much! 🌞

[@toddwmac]

Now that I'm hooked and binge watching this channel. it seems like I've seen every dough disaster I've ever had and now I have ideas why. Your documented experiments fantastic Thank you Charlie.

[@CraigEngbrecht]

I found it today and am on something like video 20. HAHAHA

[@tehreemazmat2929]

Thanks for the incredible insights

[@jeannielopez6407]

This is SO helpful for us bakers. You’re awesome. Thank you for your hard work!

[@HannibalJV]

Always appreciate your videos! The oil before makes it look like one of those high hydration sourdough loaves

[@sugarybakedgoods1593]

I learned a lot from your video, thank you!

[@xgamingpoorly92]

very informative. Thanks

[@BlackM3sh]

Thank you, especially for the side-by-side comparisons!

[@ChainBaker]

I'm glad you found it useful :)

[@MrMaltasar]

Your channel is fantastic! I've been baking at an amateur level for a few years and gotten ok at it I'd say, however from watching just a few of your videos since discovering your channel a week or two ago, I have learned soooo much. Thanks man, I love what you are doing!

[@ChainBaker]

Thank you :) I'm so glad you're finding it useful. Cheers!

[@jvallas]

So much information! 👍 This will be a good one to revisit a few times to get it all firmly in my brain.

[@ChainBaker]

I think I should make more videos like this :))

[@jvallas]

@@ChainBaker There’s so much to learn about bread; there can never be too much information IMO 🙂

[@ChainBaker]

That gives me comfort as I will never run out of video ideas 😄

[@binwaelle1138]

You're good teaching 👍

[@ChainBaker]

Thank you 🙏

[@jbirdyhome-4050]

Your videos, experiments, comparisons, explanations and recipes are absolutely the BEST! And I love how you let people know that you do not know it all and welcome feedback and input. But you know more than I about bread, doughs and baking. Absolutely love all your videos and do watch them over and over again. And I do appreciate how your recipes make smaller batches; not everyone wants to make a three pound giant loaf of bread or eight pounds of cinnamon buns or three dozen bagels at one time! But of course, with your explanation of how to calculate and adjust recipes using baker's percentage allow us all to effective downsize or upsize your recipes - or anyone's recipes for that matter. Cannot get enough of your instructional series and love the experiments. The funniest one was the bread with 10% salt. It looked like a sorry little refugee dried out sink sponge.

[@ChainBaker]

Thank you so much! 🤩

[@rudysaldivar4228]

It’s kind of weird, but I make my bread the way you did the last dough. The difference is I autolyse it overnight in the refrigerator. It comes out perfect!! Try it please.

[@Its1a2date]

Thank you

[@Vivienvixen]

Hi Charlie, I just enjoy listening to you and your content is so relatable and relevant. What I would pose, even though you insist handling your product by "hand" is far superior over machine; however, due to physical issues, I have to use my mixer. Would you consider a small series on "optimizing" bread making using your mixer? TIA

[@ChainBaker]

Thank you 😊 I will make a video on this in the future. But I can tell you now that most of the recipes can be made with a mixer and you can mix the dough for the same amount of time on medium speed. One thing to note is that I normally use 250g flour which makes for a small dough, so you may need to double a recipe like that in order for the mixer to be able to mix it properly.

[@BenjaminISmith]

Using a dusted workspace as a chalkboard in the intro made my day

[@AnthonyLeighDunstan]

Oh my lord! I wish I’d seen this video before watching this Irish joker show me how to make a pizza dough (about 4 years ago). He literally just did what you’ve done here (10:30) and reckoned it would take no less than 15mins to bring it together. It took me 45 mins of straight hardcore kneading to get it to come together and of course it got super hot which just kept perpetuating the problem of it not coming together. 🤬 eventually I just accepted the result. I left a bombardment of critiques without knowing why. Now I know. At least I knew at the time it was BS. I so relieved I wasn’t crazy.

[@kelseafeatherston1420]

Thanks!

[@ChainBaker]

Cheers 😎

[@luke11.35]

Your "messy experiment" actually did have me laughing too the point of tears. I was cracking up remembering all the times I did that & was wondering how I always got such a huge mess & what the heck I did wrong. Hehehehe great videos bro!

[@kellymay8070]

Hey, Charlie! What a fantastic, thoroughly educational, tip-packed video!!! Well done! And thank you for making and sharing it. Just wondering...did the focaccias vary in taste at all?

[@ChainBaker]

Hey Kelly :) Thank you so much! They tasted exactly the same because they were fermented for the same amount of time and contained the same amount of the same ingredients. The autolyse step does not do much for flavour when mixing by hand. But it can save the dough from losing flavour when mixing in a stand mixer.

[@AleksoVerdo]

Oh

[@user-bh1tl1rf9e]

베이킹에 관한 원리와 기본 지식을 자세히 알려주셔서 감사합니다.

[@ChainBaker]

🙏

[@ChainBaker]

What are your thoughts on this topic?

[@mark970lost8]

this is great! i find extremely frustrating the fact there's never a factual, let's say "scientific", explanation when you follow a recipe. You see recipe after recipe, of the same thing, croissaints for example, and you see people doing things very differently. some incorporate the butter after the flour has been mixed with the liquid, and some incorporate the butter at the same time, alltogheter with every other ingredient, and yet you hear other professional bakers say things like "add the sugar last, because glucose affect negatively the gluten formation, other say add the butter lastly, for the same reason. other let the flour and liquid incorporate, then let the dough rest 10-15 for autolyse action, then they add the butter . it's so frustrating,there's seems to be no method, no consensus and no literature on what has to be done, why and how

[@ianhames2465]

Such a great wealth of information you share sir, I was wondering if you have any knowledge of making Keto bread with or without cheese? It would be fantastic to see your take on it.

[@ChainBaker]

I will try and make gluten free bread in the future for sure. Need to do some more research.

[@RainbowTurd]

Thats a great video. You should do more of these side by side experients, they are incredibly insightful! I usually let the dough rest for a few minutes before kneading, regardless of the method. I find only a couple of minutes are enough to make it more workable. And if I have lower hydration doughs with only a small amount of fat added, I usually mix everything together, to avoid the work. It worked so far!. But for higher hydration doughs, you are absolutely right!

[@ChainBaker]

Thanks! Yeah I think so too. I will make an effort to make more of these kinds of videos in the future. Plus they are far easier to make than recipe videos :D That is a good method. Mini autolyse - I like it. I usually do that once already in the process of kneading and when I realize that the dough is too sticky :) And for sure if it's a small amount of fat then it's perfectly fine to mix it all from the beginning. Anything under 10% I would add straight away. Of course, depending on the hydration and other ingredients used. I have found that dough containing egg and a little fat can get very sticky even if there is only a little amount of it.

[@RainbowTurd]

@@ChainBaker that makes sense, egg is mostly water, and it contains a lot fat. I normally add the weight of the egg to my water calculation to account for that.

[@ChainBaker]

Of course I account for that. And I would aways do it exactly the same way as you said by calculating the egg weight as part of the dough hydration, but still I find that when ever I make a dough that has egg, a little butter and is around 60% hydro it becomes quite sticky.

[@ChainBaker]

@@RainbowTurd actually come to think of it that kind of dough contains sugar more often than not and sugar also acts like a 'liquifier'. Maybe that's why it becomes stickier :)

[@RainbowTurd]

@@ChainBaker that sounds like a perfect topic for an experiment!😂

[@BobbyFiermonti]

Great video. I’ve been making pizza for just about 19-20 years in NYC and Long Island. Most of us then and now mix the water, salt, putty yeast, oil and flour all together in the 60qt Hobart mixer on speed 1 for about 10-12 min then cut, weigh and shape it. It then sits out for about an hour then right into the fridge for use later in the day or normally the next day. It was so interesting to watch this video because the way we do it was not this difficult as it was for you. Granted we mix in giant machines and you did it by hand BUT there were times when our machine did brake down and our hand was needed. ( not fun) our batchs were 60 - 1lb 6 oz balls. I now make pizza at home and I do the exact same method although I have no idea my hydration maybe you can tell me. 2 1/2 cups water 5 cups flour That’s the home recipe so what hydration would that be? The s pizzeria recipe was 50lbs of flour with about 26-30 qts of water.

[@ChainBaker]

It will depend on how packed the flour is in the cup. The conversion works out to 568g water to 625g flour which would be 90% hydration. Seems pretty high for pizza, but then your flour may be much stronger than what I'm used to :)

[@JoyOfLive33]

couldn't imagine if it's 1000 gram flour with the third method. great video!

[@ChainBaker]

I'd still be mixing it to this day 😄

[@equator180]

I do a white bread, 450 Flour, 250 water, 1 lg egg, 7 gm yeast, 9 gm salt, 10 gm sugar, 20 gm milk powder, 25 ml olive oil. I mix, water, salt, sugar, yeast, stir, add oil, add egg, stir to completely dissolve sugar and salt and incorporate oil, I then add it to 450 gm Bread Flour and mix on low (Kitchen Aid) for about 3 minutes, increase to med for 6 and then one speed below full for an additional 2 min. The dough comes out just fine, coat in oil, and I get a doubling in size in about 30 minutes (I live in the tropics), shape, pan, let rise for 30 min, about 3 cm over the 9X5 pan and give it a spray of water, put it into a oven at 220C, add a few ice cubes, reduce temp to 200 in a conduction oven, bread is finished in 35 min with an internal temp of 94C. The crust is even, light brown, crumb is soft and very good body. I have no problems adding the oil from the very beginning, maybe lucky I guess.

[@thaabieddante5182]

Love your channel and your narratives bro! Very informative and educational. I run a micro bakery from home, self taught, and really apply your methods and useful advice. Thank you so much, all the way from South Africa! Keep it up bro, we still have much to learn from you!

[@ChainBaker]

That is so awesome! I was recently thinking of possibly doing something like that in the future. Would make for an interesting video series too. I'm glad you're finding my videos useful. There will be a couple of very interesting ones in january. All about freezing bread/dough. You got that right! The more I learn the more I understand how little I know 😄 but that's what keeps it interesting. Cheers my friend!

[@loam6740]

Love this channel and has helped a lot with my bread! With sandwich loaves I like to mix everything but the butter then let it sit for a half hour or so and mix in the butter.

[@nikkiloves78]

Hi Charlie! First of all, I LOVE your name! When I was a little girl I would say "I'm going to name my son Charlie" ... well I had two sons & didn't get to name either of them! Lol maybe next life😁 ok, I am working on perfecting my homemade cinnamon rolls for my family. I have the filling done, however the dough is giving me grief. I like the texture but I can taste the sour yeast. Is it the type if yeast I'm using? Is there a method to dull the yeast flavor? I feel like it's something I am or am not doing, but it could be the yeast too. Please let me know what you know about tasting the yeast in doughs. Thank You ! I also love your channel. You have unique content. ✨💖✨

[@ChainBaker]

Hey Nikki! :) How is it fermented? How long do you let it rise for? What is the percentage of yeast in the dough and which kind of yeast are you using? There should be a fermentation flavour, but not much in terms of straight yeast taste. Perhaps you could use a bit less? Here is one of my cinnamon roll recipes, perhaps you can find some answers there - kzbin.info/www/bejne/pnOkdKSAnq1ke7M

[@khurram88]

Curious to know the baker’s percentages for this particular recipe, especially for the oil.

[@ChainBaker]

It is this recipe - kzbin.info/www/bejne/gX2WkmWkmMp2jNE 20% oil :)

[@alexjohnston7456]

This is great stuff, thanks man. One question, what happens if your dough heats up too much during mixing?

[@ChainBaker]

The warmer the dough the quicker it will ferment and a lot of times that is not what we want. Here is a detailed video on temperature control - kzbin.info/www/bejne/g6PKiYWtoN9gadk Cheers!

[@mark970lost8]

this is great! i find extremely frustrating the fact there's never a factual, let's say "scientific", explanation when you follow a recipe. You see recipe after recipe, of the same thing, croissaints for example, and you see people doing things very differently. some incorporate the butter after the flour has been mixed with the liquid, and some incorporate the butter at the same time, alltogheter with every other ingredient, and yet you hear other professional bakers say things like "add the sugar last, because glucose affect negatively the gluten formation, other say add the butter lastly, for the same reason. other let the flour and liquid incorporate, then let the dough rest 10-15 for autolyse action, then they add the butter . it's so frustrating,there's seems to be no method, no consensus and no literature on what has to be done, why and how

[@ChainBaker]

I'd say if a professional baker is saying something then most likely it should be sound advice. But random people on youtube most of the time don't know what they're doing. That is why I try to bring some principles along with my recipes :)

[@georgepagakis9854]

@@ChainBaker I agree 100% with you. Most people on KZbin who claim to be chefs are not chefs. Anyone can put a title if front of their name, And even if they are pro backers doesn't mean nothing, There are great chefs and bad ones. Its a part of life and KZbin has tons of bad ones but when you find gems like this channel its really great. all your methods work there is always proof to back up what you are doing.. Keep up the amazing work!

[@vq5962]

Can you make video about how to make bread super soft ?, like japanese bread, not just about yudane and tangzong but about the super soft bread that have a soft cotton like texture that didn't have crust even the outer layer is super soft.

[@ChainBaker]

I will try in the future for sure !:)

[@vq5962]

@@ChainBaker thank you

[@mikey19608]

Charlie, first thank you for making these experimental videos, it takes so much time and effort, not trying to critisize but it would be so beneficial if you showed a simple table at then end as a conclusion, I had to go back and rewatch few times to keep up. I do autolyse and add my yeast/salt/oil (in that order) after, 70% pizza dough (very little oil 4%), was wondering if the duration of the autolyse played a big factor, seen others let the autolysed dough rest for 18 hrs, me I only let it rest for 30-40 min.

[@ChainBaker]

Thanks! That's fair and I might do it in the future for sure :) the numbers in this video are not important though and you can read my blog post where I write down most of the things I talk about to not have to rewatch the video over and over. You can find it in the link below the video 👍 When it comes to autolyse times then 30-40 minutes should be sufficient for any dough. Some bakers swear by leaving it for a long time,but I have never seen any advantage to it.

[@doragordon1385]

when do you fold it in? after the second rise just as/before you shape the dough?

[@ChainBaker]

During bulk fermentation.

[@aprophetofrng9821]

A more american style of focaccia recipe I use at work goes like "bloom yeast in water with the sugar, add to half of the flour, let sit for 20 minutes (the autolyse step?), add in remaining flour along with salt, seasonings, and oil, then knead until elastic and smooth, spread out into pans for baking, let proof for 45 minutes to an hour" Is this a "worse" method than I could be using? The extra added flour could be making it a harder kneading process as it's not hydrated right? How would you go about improving a recipe like this?

[@ChainBaker]

There is no need to bloom yeast. Ever. Here is a video on that - kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6KplouulsSBis0 Autolyse is normally done with all the flour. Here is a video on that - kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZTcZZJ-fMtliac I would suggest reducing the yeast and letting the dough ferment for longer. That way it will develop more flavour through fermentation. Here are some of my focaccia recipes. Perhaps you can find some inspiration there: 1) kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYPVfZ6Nnbl9sLs 2) kzbin.info/www/bejne/gX2WkmWkmMp2jNE 3) kzbin.info/www/bejne/mKKVfJykqJd0hMk Hope this helps :)

[@RafaGmod]

day after day watching your videos i understand more why my bread making machine is so unconsistent hahahaha

[@greentea995]

I've tried autolysing for an enriched bread previously (Pain de mie) for at least 15 mins. The reason was because I thought it might be good to hydrate the flour for easier mixing later. Afterwards, I used to mixer and kneaded my bread dough for about 10~11 mins, until it is soft and supple. Everything seemed fine from the first proof and etc however, perhaps because of the autolyse and mixing with the stand mixer, it dried my bread dough for quite a bit? Since low hydration dough need as much moisture locked as possible. During the 2nd proof, the skin of my bread tore before I can proceed to break. So, I do agree that probably autolysing for enriched doughs might not be needed here! Thank you for going thru such detailed explanations!!!

[@ChainBaker]

For pain de mie you could definitely add all ingredients in at the same time and mix right away. But that will depend on the amount of fat you use. If the fat content is higher, then you could mix all but the fat for 5 minutes or so and then add the fat and finish mixing. That way you will get to develop the gluten a bit and also incorporate your fat properly 👍

[@roccosdough]

Wondering what happens when dough is too warm like you mentioned in this video? Please advise thanks

[@ChainBaker]

It ferments too rapidly and may overproof.

[@roccosdough]

@@ChainBaker Gotcha thanks! Excellent videos !

[@johncarter5685]

@@ChainBaker Doesn't that just mean you can bake it sooner? ie. It's a Good Thing?

[@fenugreekqueen6805]

Hi chainbaker,love your content 💓💓 I have a question I thought that autolysis replace the kneading altogether (and everyone I've seen do it like that) But you're autolysing and kneading, what's the autolysis purpose then?

[@ChainBaker]

Hey! :) You could use autolyse to replace kneading when making a no-knead dough, but then you should fold the dough more during bulk fermentation to build tension and make it stronger. I normally use autolyse to help with gluten development so that I can more easily knead high hydration dough and it reduces the kneading time too.

[@plouteo6612]

Why do we avoid the dough from getting warm? how warm, is "warm" (in Celsius)? I usually use a bread machine where the kneading is 30 mins, and I make sweet enriched dough - with whole milk, butter and eggs. So... are you saying that an autolyse step on that kind of dough is unnecessary? Sometimes, I add the butter last, a step which i dislike because it can take as long as 20 mins to incorporate butter into the dough.

[@ChainBaker]

Anywhere upwards of 26C would be too warm for any kind of dough. You should be aiming for 23-25 depending on the temperature of your kitchen. Here is a detailed look at temperature control - kzbin.info/www/bejne/g6PKiYWtoN9gadk I don't have any experience with bread makers, but what I can say is that kneading a dough for 30 minutes in a mixer would destroy it. It would over heat and the flour would get oxidised making it lose flavour and colour. The gluten would break down and you'd end up with a pancake. Adding butter should also not take very long for most dough unless it's brioche. Here is a detailed look at adding fat to bread dough - kzbin.info/www/bejne/oqCcZnybZ5aAaKc But the conventional rules and principles don't really apply for bread making machines. The main purpose of them is to create a loaf of bread as quickly and as mess free as possible.

[@jdsood7101]

Sir what happens if we use both curd and dry yeast together to make pizza dough?Is using curd a good idea for making pizza dough?

[@ChainBaker]

I have never tried using curd for bread dough, so I'm not sure.

[@veronikahiebert7858]

What is best for mixing burger buns? Which order?

[@ChainBaker]

I never autolyse burger buns. There is just no need.

[@StilettoSniper]

@@ChainBaker What about if you were making whole wheat hamburger buns, and wanted to allow the whole wheat flour time to absorb the water? Wouldn't a 30 minute autolysis make sense in this case? I have a recipe for whole wheat buns that also calls for fat in the form of butter or oil. Would love to hear what you would recommend doing in this case. Thanks! Love your channel and videos btw, I learn a lot from them.

[@twitchlazy]

Just found this channel...I'm gonna be here a while. Good stuff, can't wait to learn!

[@ChainBaker]

Thank you. And welcome to the channel 🙏

[@evanhdez]

For high hydration doughs I usually just throw everything into the mixer at once. Liquids, sugar, salt, yeast, and fat and just add the flour on top and mix it for about 15 minutes. In my defense I work in a Mexican bakery and we need to get everything done quick. If it was an American or Italian bakery then we probably would follow all these steps but you know it is with us Mexicans. Our bosses overwork us. :(

[@lucym8562]

For me kneading the dough right after it's mixed is annoying and unnecesary even if it's less than those 16 minutes. I just leave it mixed more than 20 min. and then it's in a very comfortable condition to work with it. In fact kneading it for more than a minute always results for me in starting again with the gluten network broken. I don't understand why for other people seems to work, they knead until the gluten network is developed. Doesn't work like that in my universe... 🤷‍♀

[@ale-lx9gp]

That was a nice set of a ...... "Dough" set :P

[@MustafaBirsoz]

i would like to have a bite of that

[@mark970lost8]

great video, i needed this a week ago, when i had the stupid idea to add a bit of oil in the water i was using to make a tray of pan pizza. i said to my self "let's try, oil will make it more fluffy and have a better spring oven" ... basically i did the last example, was miserable, had to knead that thing for 20 minutes, and give it extra time to rise... and it still wasn't enough. i had to let rest overnight in the fridge, and only then was somewhat presentable. baked was the most amazing pan pizza i ever made though, that has to be said, but it wasn't because i added oil like an idiot at the beginning to the water, i know that now thanks to this video lol

[@ChainBaker]

It all depends on how much oil is being used. In some cases it is totally fine to add it from the beginning and not do autolyse at all. It was most likely so good because of the long cold proof :) Here is a more detailed look at adding fat to bread dough - kzbin.info/www/bejne/oqCcZnybZ5aAaKc If you like pan pizzas check out my no-knead sourdough pan pizza recipe - kzbin.info/www/bejne/a2OXaIiYfrGKr6c Or my 24 hour no knead yeast dough pan pizza - kzbin.info/www/bejne/bGbNoox_nt99gqs 😁👍

[@AJAA2916]

hi ChainBaker, I might be late, but does autolysing flour with milk still considered as interrupting the gluten development? I have this 75% hydration sweet enriched dough with full milk and butter and it took forever to mix so I decided to do an autolyse and it does indeed shortens the overall mixing time

[@ChainBaker]

The fat content in milk is relatively low so you can certainly use it to autolyse. What kind of bread is that for? Sounds interesting.

[@AJAA2916]

@@ChainBaker yes the fat is around 9g per 200ml of milk, and I'm autolysing with around 11g of fat. So it's also okay to put a whole egg into autolyse as well? I was about to add the whites into autolyse and the yolk later after autolyse.It's for milk bread, thank you for your reply! your videos are really insightful especially the brioches video on shaping and stretch folding after putting it in a fridge for an hour. Might as well ask another question if you don't mind. How many stretch and fold exactly needed when I cold proof my dough for the first rise in the fridge? I intend to cold proof it for 12 hrs in the fridge to fit my baking schedule

[@ChainBaker]

Yeah it would probably be better to add the fatty yolk after the autolyse when adding the rest of the ingredients just to make sure that the fat content is kept to a minimum from the get go. But then again the gluten will be broken up later anyway so it may just work either way. I have not tried this method before so I can't say for sure. I always try and make a recipe as simple as possible so I'd probably just add the whole egg to the autolyse and then deal with the consequences haha! Do you mean like my brioche where I fold it to cool it down and give it strength before the cold bulk proof? I think two folds at 1 hour intervals would be just right. That way you will cool down the dough evenly and give it some extra layers. Or if you don't have time then do it at 30 minute intervals, but still give it two folds. Each recipe will have different requirements though and you will only find out for sure when you try it. Even one fold could be sufficient in some cases.

[@rezahashemi1398]

It is good that you say the first dough and the second dough; but it would make it even better if you keep the same relative position of the samples (left, right, top, down)

[@yellowperil6307]

Thank you for the experiment! Now what would happen in a sourdough situation......? What do you do if you don't like too much of the sourness of the sourdough, you love the texture of it with the flavour of butter..... is it achievable?

[@ChainBaker]

If you don't like too much sourness then don't ferment it for too long. That is the only reason for that flavour 👍

[@ZefixYT]

@@ChainBaker i'm no professional - but one told me the temperature affects the kind of bacteria that get ahead in multiplying. Below 10°C the wild yeast is getting ahead (round/full flavor), between 14-20°C the lacto-acid bacteria is the strongest (yoghurty saurness) while at 30°C+ the vinegar-acid bacteria dominates (vinegary-sourness). Also the hydration-level of your sourdough-starter seems to affect the taste - because different bacterias love different humidity (seems watery starter = yoghurty, stiff starter = more vinegary). And there is always the way of splitting it up - taking a bit of starter just for taste and texture and let the risinig be done by commercial yeast. And now that i'm thinking about that all.... what different taste you can get with just small changes - my head is going to explode ^^

[@islamkarty5981]

🔴 What happens when the dough is warm up ? ??

[@ChainBaker]

Ferments too quickly and risks over proofing.

[@islamkarty5981]

@@ChainBaker thank you 🙏❤

[@barlevi1]

This is super useful! Its amazing how after 4 years of making bread and pizza you can still learn and be better just by having a very good teacher. Thanks!

[@ChainBaker]

Thank you so much! :)

[@juliusdarmawan8234]

Is it possible the gluten breaksdown (like in overmixed dough case) if we autolyse the dough too long before we adding the yeast, salt and fat, and kneading it..?

[@ChainBaker]

Not at all. The autolyse will only help with gluten development.

[@chefpizza4677]

Can you talk about doughs with alcohol ? And how you can add alcohol to enrich doughs like stollen, pandoro,pannetone, or infusing dried fruit with alcohol and aging them like whats the science behind that? Love your content. Huge fan, watch almost every video. Tha ks again!

[@ChainBaker]

I have not had much experience with using alcohol in dough, but I would probably stick to alcohol flavouring instead of straight up alcohol. You can get rum, whisky, vodka etc. extracts and they add the flavour without the alcohol itself. Such things are commonly used for cakes. But when it comes to soaking fruit, then there is not much to it - just drown in booze, let is sit for a day or so, drain and use :)

[@chefpizza4677]

@@ChainBaker greatly appreciate the reply! Super killer. The soaking of the fruits in alcohol wouldnt enough the yeast in the final proof?

[@ChainBaker]

I don't think so because the alcohol wold be mostly inside the fruit 👍

[@chefpizza4677]

@@ChainBaker i get it now do i need to wash them off with water? Or just strain it?

[@ChainBaker]

@@chefpizza4677 just strain and perhaps give a light squeeze to remove any excess 👍

[@conniepr]

I thought salt deactivated yeast but you added it with yeast.

[@ChainBaker]

Watch this kzbin.info/www/bejne/m6ucZoejiLB6ZpY ✌️

[@mr.Mikeyboy]

So this is what I do let me know what you think about this process i mix flour yeast salt water and I let it sit for about 15 minutes and then I fold within the first hour and then I put it in the fridge and rest overnight next morning I form focaccia let proof get nice and bubbly and then I bake just trying different things …thoughts?

[@ChainBaker]

Cold bulk proofing is a perfectly fine method. I am actually getting ready to film a video on the topic 👍

[@mr.Mikeyboy]

@@ChainBaker awesome it’s like small side gig for me I make all different types just curious with different methods

[@gastonrando6016]

I am trying to do a panetone with only eggs and fats (no water), how would u mix it? I first tried adding all from the get go, and I could never develop gluten on a mixer. How does an over kneed on a machine looks?

[@ChainBaker]

I have never made such an extreme example. But it could be made similarly to brioche dough. Add the fruit at the very end. Here is my brioche recipe - kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoO6eHefpc14haM You can use that as a guideline.

[@gastonrando6016]

@@ChainBaker thx

[@robertpolaco6921]

Yoh! Great instructions, are you South African?

[@ChainBaker]

Latvian 😎

[@hs4xace]

👍👍

[@georgepagakis9854]

One thing to point out is. There are doughs that can be 70% hydration but have a starter it them. If you use 20-30% starter the flour and water left to mix for autolyse will not be more then 50% hydration thus creating lumps that are hard as a rock. its impossible to mix the starter into that kind of scenario. I would think the water and flour that is supposed to be in autolyse should have a hydration of at least 70% for this method to work which would end up in a final hydration of probably 80% which would make sense. But this doesn't work if you have low hydration and then hit it with a starter like poosih which has most of the water as I did one with 35% Poolish starter and i had to put it in the garbage. That ends up in a horrible ultra sticky mess. What are your thoughts?

[@ChainBaker]

In that case you can simply add the preferment to the autolyse and still take all following steps like normal. Keep a bit of water back to dissolve the yeast in and add the salt after autolysation too. Or you can switch from poolish to a lower hydration biga which would leave more water for the autolyse 👍

[@georgepagakis9854]

@@ChainBaker That's why you are the master :) Great ideas. One step at a time, I am trying to perfect poolish and then I will attack Biga. :) I will go for this autolyse one more time. I am so happy I asked that question I was about to give up on autolyse!

[@ChrisTopheRaz]

Did you go to culinary school?

[@ChainBaker]

I did. But it had almost nothing to do with bread making. We only had one day of it. Saying that, it was the day I fell in love with it 😄

[@ChrisTopheRaz]

@@ChainBaker yeah they do the basics of lean dough, yada yada. I would have suspected the bakery side for you but it appears you just took that direction in favor but it’s pretty obvious that you did culinary school. I am a chef but I am starting to love baking more and more lately. I just wish I knew some of the industry secrets for volume production. Another thing I have trouble with is obtaining the level of softness that some major bakeries can achieve for hoagies and brioche. Tangzong helps but I’m sure they are using some kind of conditioners. I need some insider information lol. I like your videos though because you do a lot of testing and that saves me time from having to do the same tests ha ha so thank you for that!

[@ChainBaker]

I am planning some videos on lecithin and vitamin C. They might bring some more answers :))

[@ChrisTopheRaz]

@@ChainBaker then conditioners, malts (diastatic and non), oh and don’t forget weights associated with varying grains, agricultural location, nutrient density! you know, how product sometimes fails because the use of recipes to begin with rather than bakers percentages lol. OK maybe I’m going a little too far here ha ha.

[@vengeancejustice5329]

10:36 If we mix ALL and let the autolyse works for hours , it's Ok ? (my english language is not perfect)

[@ChainBaker]

Then your dough would ferment during that time. That would not be autolyse anymore, it would just be a bread dough proofing. You can mix the water & flour and leave that for many hours, but salt and yeast should be added later.

[@vengeancejustice5329]

@@ChainBaker >> That is, fermentation prevents autolysis, if I understood. Ok.

[@DeminicusSCA]

Very cool , in the brewing world we would call this a protein rest, or enzyme rest, and that it what it is . I am learning that autolysis is the excepted term in baking, coined by French scientist and bread expert Prof Raymond Calvel. But I feel its a little loose with the definition, In brewing we would not call a enzyme rest , autolysis. because we already use that word much more accurately to describe a mostly negative event where the yeast sits in a fermented beverage for so long it eats it self (making nasty flavors in the process). In brewing and biology autolysis is defined as self-digestion or destruction of tissue by its own enzymes , but normal has a negative connotation ie something has gone wrong or died.

[@theclimb8632]

why is it bad for your bread dough to be warm?

[@ChainBaker]

Because it will ferment too quickly and not develop enough flavour. Also you risk over proofing if it's too warm.

[@theclimb8632]

@@ChainBaker thank you!

[@johncarter5685]

@@ChainBaker This seems to be missing something... if it's not from the fermentation... where is the flavour coming from?

[@ChainBaker]

It comes from fermentation. The longer it ferments the more flavour it develops. That's why supermarket bread is bland.

[@johncarter5685]

If it's fermenting quickly, you're getting more fermentation hence more flavour in less time.. Therefore there must be something other than just "fermenting" going on then.

[@seventian6117]

I never need to knead my 6% oil 80% water pizza/focaccia dough, just do several folding on day 1, then divide it into 4 smaller containers at a later time, use it up to 10 days, keep it in the colder part of the fridge during the whole time.

[@martymctry20]

Hey, from looking at your video thumbnail I thought it was about a kinda prehistoric animal skull!

[@ChainBaker]

Haha I can totally see it now 😂

[@atrotsiuk]

When I worked at a bakery, my boss ruined 50kg of flour because he made autolyse in croissant dough. Then I learned that you can make autolyse in enriched dough 😅

[@tophat230]

Hi Do You have a boat channel ?

[@ChainBaker]

Like ChainSailor? 😄

[@tophat230]

@@ChainBaker This guy talking sounds likekzbin.info/www/bejne/eabVpXuaZrKeq9k