How to Avoid Having a Skydiver for a Hood Ornament

Pilots are often nervous about flying into or around airports with skydiving operations. There's really no need to be, as Paul Bertorelli explains in this AVweb video. Just avoid the airport by three or four miles on the downwind side when transitioning and don't overfly a dropzone airport if you're landing there. Just fly a normal (not too tight) pattern.
Thanks to Ed Scott at www.jumpersaway.com/ for assistance in producing this video.

[@ejl9363]

Luckily, as a helicopter pilot, I’ve got a clever system that keeps them off my windshields.

[@WX4CB]

or at least the majority of the bits of them :D

[@ImplodedAtom]

Is it the same thing that keeps you cool?

[@WX4CB]

@@ImplodedAtom must be i guess.... you can imagine how hot they get when the fan stops turning

[@ejl9363]

@@WX4CB I start to sweat a lot

[@scottfranco1962]

Yea, I'll bet you have a lower chance of surviving the incident than fixed wing.

[@cuteswan]

Paul, I love your informational videos enough, but I freakin' love the humorous tidbits in your animation. Best wishes for many more years of safe flying whether in a plane or not.

[@christopherbedford9897]

It's the deadpan delivery that makes it though isn't it.

[@aa134368]

“…or worse, a mooney.” 😂😂

[@rv6amark]

I, too, love his deadpan delivery and slightly askew humor. His humor keeps me interested in the subject matter no matter how dry it is. As an aging pilot who really doesn't like motorcycles, I can watch his videos all day...in spite of his motorcycle comments. Love ya, Paul!

[@sethfreedman3473]

As a skydive jump pilot, this cideo does a great job of unraveling what seems to be a mystery for most regular pilots. One thing that was slightly missed is that some skydive operations have slightly different departure procedures than the standard traffic pattern, and also that at times will be entering the traffic pattern at higher speeds then is normal for the aircraft they are flying (traffic permitting of course). Another thing to note is that we are always willing to be corteous and give way to other aircraft, but if you are not in a rush it's polite to allow the jump plane to go ahead of you because we are almost always in a rush and typically get paid per jump so by holding us up you are effectively making our hourly rate lower. We typically also fly very short approaches to get down as quick as possible, in addition to having very high decent rates from altitude (it can be in excess of 3000 ft per minute). So make sure to look out for the skydive plane and they will be looking out for you!

[@WX4CB]

i agree ... deland does a similar thing. and sometimes it freaks me out when im on final for 5 and the jump plane is coming on the cross. even though i knew that's what they were doing (they communicate REALLY well). the other thing is there's been a couple of times when i've been taxying down and letthem go in front cus as you say. im in no rush and they wanna get paid. so why not let them go... gets them outta my hair and one less thing for me to worry about.

[@HANGMAN126A]

I was flying into L08 while jumping was happening. Winds were light from the east I set up and was on final for 08 and had announced, then the jump plane said he was going to land on 26 in front of me. I radioed I'm not playing your game and went around. What an A-hole. Should have got his N number and filled a report.

[@joetroyner]

Learned how to Fly by dodging skydivers all day at Cross Keys (17N). They have a really good system to keep everyone separated, but sometimes you'll get a jumper crossing the runway at midfield while landing and taking off. Love seeing you mention my little home airport..

[@ltlwalt]

Years ago I was getting fuel on the south side at Bill's, and was lamenting my fears about the jumpers. Bill said "no worry, they stay north of the field". As I get into my Stinson, here comes a jumper walking up Tuckahoe Road (555) from the south. I think there was a small cafe there at that time. Yeah, it was a hoot seeing Cross Keys mentioned.

[@danielstarnes7354]

The Cross Keys guys always party hardest and have the biggest beards at Invasion

[@peterallen4605]

I can say from personal experience that when I jumped (admittedly 25+years ago) in NE Pennsylvania, it was a high wind day and we dropped much more than 2 miles from the airport and drifted/backed into the airport. A couple of later jumpers missed the airport entirely and ended up in the auxiliary drop zone which was the jump school owner's back yard a few miles beyond the airport. We were briefed this "auxiliary" as a possibility the day before and were given the impression that it was not uncommon for jumpers to end up there on windier days. Otherwise, good info as usual.

[@mikedejung]

Thank you Paul, another good one! Regarding the Mooney, if you're going to get hit you might as well get it over with quickly rather than dragging it out with a Cirrus.

[@PuppyDogPilot]

Nah, you can do CRW with a Cirrus.

[@jpfurnari5056]

13,000+ skydives, 16,000 loads of skydivers flown. This is fantastic. In a nutshell, don’t be NORDO around dropzones, if possible avoid overflight by 3 miles when possible. Simple things that can keep everyone safe.

[@richardseton7014]

Highly valuable safety operational information, sucintly and comprehensively articulated, to the point with all with the best humor and graphics. Thank you Paul, every time you present a topic there are more memorable valuable take aways than any official law, rule or guideline.

[@mikefougere]

well said

[@omegacage]

I did some of my training at KAVQ. The pilots for the jump aircraft always included “do not overfly the field” with their calls leading up to the jump.

[@scarybaldguy]

Same at Eloy. Doesn't stop the occasional idiot from flying through the drop zone.

[@NathanBallardSaferFlying]

Always love Paul's commentary, keeping it REAL!

[@AlecThilenius]

I love your humor and no-BS info so much, it's a joy to watch and learn from.

[@timspangler1526]

As a current pilot and skydiver this is a fantastic video. Thank you.

[@WilliamsWings]

Was just flying around skydiving operations today so this was perfect timing thank you!

[@kiltedpiper98]

Good info. Love the humor throughout all of it. Almost didn’t recognize you without the mustache.

[@leximattick]

Fantastic video as always! I'm not a huge youtube watcher but I always look forward to AVweb's content.

[@Bill_Woo]

👌👍

[@tracyhardy3915]

Paul, Thank you for doing this video. I fly a lot in southern AZ, around many airports that host skydiving. Frankly I didn't know diddly. I am a relatively short time pilot with a little more than 500 hours in 3 years, frankly it amazes me that they let us have our licence without knowing more of this stuff! I guess it really is a licence to learn. Hey, maybe that could be the subject for a new video, "Stuff you need to know that wasn't on the test" or "now you know just enough to be dangerous" I am always looking for "engine out energy management" videos/instruction. Ill buy the gas and put up the airplane to do a video on that one! Thanks again and keep up the comedic sarcasm!

[@fivestringslinger]

I operate pretty frequently out of and around an airport that has regular skydive operations during the summer months. I can't speak for anywhere else, but the jump pilots there do a great job of communicating and coordinating with other traffic in the area.

[@MrxEVILCRAZYx]

The bloopers were a hilarious and awesome touch, thank you chief

[@AirBuzz56]

Important and well delivered topic... TY Paul.

[@AlphaEchoFoxtrot]

Thank you Paul. This is awesome.

[@Yadro767]

Excellent info, even better delivery!

[@michaeld5627]

Wow, fantastic job Paul.

[@franktino6676]

If I recall correctly, back in the 90's, there was a jumper that collided with a Piper Cherokee series aircraft up in the New England states, resulting in the shearing off of the tail on the Cherokee and the death of all onboard the crashed Cherokee - and obviously the death too of the jumper. I was regularly flying out of both FWN and 17N in New Jersey back then, in both my Aeronca Chief and in my straight tail '59 Cessna 150 with those two airports having very active jump schools and it was a definite eye opener.

[@daveblevins3322]

I flew EMS helicopters for a company called Samaritan Air Evac out of Phoenix AZ from 89 to 97, and had many trips past Eloy. Keep on jumpin' 👍👍🇺🇸

[@mshoemaker11]

Respect!! Keep up the good work, Paul.

[@milk-it]

As a pilot, I always have concerns when flying around danger areas with noted parachute operations. I always maintain radio contact with pilots on the local CTAF, that way I always ensure I'm clear of parachute operations, glider operations etc. Great video.

[@Prefect99]

Love Paul, such great delivery.

[@WX4CB]

flying out of KDED i have to deal with on every time i go fly.. there's been a couple of times that the meat missiles have come REALLY close to the runways. the drop pilots themselves do a VERY good job of letting everyone known they're falling and also the jumpers themselves for the most part do a good job of avoiding the runways and the traffic pattern.

[@kevinmalloy2180]

Wow, this was very helpful (particularly as to Cross Keys, since I fly in there sometimes). The jump planes seemingly often flying high steep-dropping pattern entries are worrisome…

[@thomascharlton8545]

There's a tandem only operation everyday here at X21 (Titusville). They do a pretty good job and most are respectful of each other's deal.

[@BigWheelHawaii]

There's Just No Doubt,,, This Is The Best Aviation Site On KZbin....

[@mwsletten]

Great info as always, Paul. But I was very distracted by the tragic loss of your mustache. Was it a trimming accident?

[@RobertJones-ty5mg]

Great video. Great info. Thanks Paul!

[@Coops777]

Brilliant, informative and very funny video Paul. Thanks so much!

[@healerf18]

Pansy here and proud of it! Won't catch me jumping out of a perfectly good airplane. :) That said, not being a skydiver I had no concept of skydiving operations. This was very helpful. As always, Paul is the very best!

[@nicholashartzler2205]

Such an incredible reporter.

[@jhmcglynn]

This is close to home, literally 😊. I fly out of Cape Fear Regional featured in your video. Thanks. BTW - we also have a significant Osprey and large military helicopters traffic st KSUT. You might do a safety video on avoiding the rotor wash.

[@theflyingfool]

AvWeb is home to a national treasure... his elegant sense of humour and South Park graphics are second to none.

[@CCitis]

Interesting, and not something I think of all that often. Thanks for increased awareness.

[@cisco0375]

Great video!! Deland AWOS tells you not to overfly the feild due to skydiving activities

[@loupitou06fl]

Hey Paul, easy on the Mooney 😂. Always equally entertaining and educational, thanks for sharing ! I’ll do my best to keep you out of my cowling 😊

[@jamesonpace726]

And spiders...!

[@davidclaiborne5280]

I was lucky enough to conduct part of my private pilot training at KLIC which has frequent jumping operations. Academic knowledge is good to have of course, but nothing beats real world experience with an instructor in the right seat to help you in a new situation.

[@markcoveryourassets]

Even more helpful, I suppose, if the instructor just parachuted into that seat. 😂 It does seem like a lot to keep track of. Good experience learning it at the start.

[@buckstarchaser2376]

I did a tandem once. In that, I learned that there is an excitement level at which exceeding it, I become calm again. Strangely, the excitement kicks in full force about about 25-50' AGL, which is about the limits of my nearsighted threshold between near and far. Since that was about 25 years ago, I suppose I would likely remain calm until my face touches down. :)

[@mdsx01]

Started flying out of an airport that does skydiving ops. Always a fun time in the pattern.

[@shgena]

Beautifully done Paul. :):)

[@PuppyDogPilot]

As a private pilot and a former skydiver, this was an excellent video.

[@_skyyskater]

I did a bunch of my flight training at Deland. Awesome place, by the way! The way I learned it was just don't overfly any part of the field, so I stay outside the runways and otherwise do a normal pattern, just a bit bigger. Absolutely no midfield crossings. I do fly a Citabria, so my normal tendancy is to want to be tight and fly over the intersecting runway. I'm based out of N85 in NJ, which also has a jump operation. We also have a crosswind runway, and the same thing works well there. Stay outside the airport boundaries until on final. One day at Deland, despite being well outside the boundaries, a jumper came pretty close, and I had to maneuver away. "See and avoid" still applies. On a windy day you might want to give more room.

[@n326dpcherokeesix5]

Best shirt I’ve seen all day. Good stuff (and absolutely true).

[@philipmcbride1275]

Great coverage, thanks! That tandem idea sounds interesting. I know I'd probably pee myself, but that's just freedom in the skies. :)

[@JamesSaine]

Nicely done!

[@mattiasdevlin1363]

As a private pilot and former skydiver this was really good, especially the animations...

[@erich930]

On one of my VFR solo cross country flights for my Instrument Rating, I was cruising along at 6500 and heard something about skydivers on approach frequency. I think it was an approach controller advising pilots about it. A couple minutes later, I looked to my right and saw a big red canopy floating down!

[@KitYeeScott]

I’ve made 3 jumps, flew a jump plane for 1.5 years. As long as everyone is diligent & aware things work fine, but people must follow the rules. Twice I have had incidents with jumpers Cloud jumping. Once while flying up a valley under a solid overcast & not near an airport, a jumpers legs appeared out of the cloud deck ahead of me (his hands were positioned ready to release the main chute) & I turned away. Second time, having just towed some gliders up, watched a group of chutists pop through a cumulus cloud over the airport, glad there weren’t any gliders thermaling underneath it.

[@sxf093020]

Great video, Paul! Question: You mentioned tuning into CTAF, but what about the frequency right next to the parachute symbol?

[@AVweb]

Eloy only. That appear to be a frequency for the Arizona Flight Training practice area. Not sure how it works out there.

[@paulschannel3046]

Good stuff to know and thanks for this lesson. My new rule... 4 to 5 miles downwind.

[@johneastman1905]

A few years ago, a Cessna 170 caught a canopy with its wing, shortly after takeoff. This occurs at the small strip near Lakeland Florida, fortunately no fatalities.

[@smacmoyle]

ADSB in and a moving map makes things allot safer in those areas. I was deviating out of a jump area and the jump pilot called me by my tail number to make sure I was on the frequency.

[@tomsmith3045]

Just like South Park, this was informative AND funny! Now you need to do one on flying around glider operations...

[@danulinski8914]

Hey Paul. Great vid. What happened to the mustache? And have you been to Maytown near Lancaster PA? Great people. Cross Keys is awesome too :-) Save flying.

[@michaelwilliamsd.o.5006]

Awesome PSA! Thanks for the “HEADS UP!” And there is no such thing, as jumping out of a perfectly good airplane” … I have never seen a perfect airplane.! Very impressive Belly Flying, Sir…you just earned some major street CRED with me. DOC, B license 142 jumps (I’m just a baby skydiver)

[@dermick]

Paul's jumpers must be much better than mine. I'm afraid to start up when there are jumpers coming down - they land everywhere. I just wait until they are on the ground, then I start up and take off. When the jump aircraft is in the air dropping them, I again wait until they are on the ground before getting into the pattern. A few minutes of "inconvenience" and a lot less stress.

[@LilYeshua]

My Jr high school wood shop teacher did sky diving for events. One time he let the class to roll up and pack his main chute,him supervising of course

[@mikem5043]

The Otay drop zone airport (San Diego) is named after John Nichols. John was a sport skydiver who collided with a C-130 that was flying thru the DZ

[@patrickpowell2236]

Good video. The jump pilots at good to work with and around where I'm based.

[@MauriceColontonio]

Came into Cross Keys just a few weeks ago, and had a canopy come zipping across the runway about 50 feet off the ground as I was on short final. Not a fan of mixed ops, and I have jumped.

[@kristensorensen2219]

#185👍🎉👏👏You're a fabulous asset for all aviators!!❤

[@velocity2654]

I have no problems with KZPH, or other jump areas that are attached to an airport since they clearly announce their intentions on the unicom and you can communicate with them on the unicom. I do dislike areas like the Myakka City and Sun City parachute areas that are not associated with an airport and have no frequency that can be monitored or consulted for information. ATC in this area is usually pretty busy and seem to dislike being bothered with information requests like this or flight following. What is the best practice for dealing with them?

[@Steve-dt4kg]

Paul always shows me I don't know (the gaps in) what I think I know.

[@_pocketsand]

i appreciate the pond swooper at 9:48

[@christopherbedford9897]

Thanks for this. As a skydiver, I've seen way too many -cowboys- pilots doing as they damn please over busy airports in ways that not even other -cowboys- pilots were happy to endorse.

[@kristensorensen2219]

Do all controlled airports include tower notices and ?

[@TomCook1993]

Or worse a Mooney?! 😂 I feel called out

[@SailOnFlyBy]

Sport of Kings! Darn right 👍🏼 Blue Skies! 😎🤙🏼

[@davidsakal449]

I just love it when acft overfly the DZ, don't see anything, turn around and overfly it again! It happens more than it should at Spaceland Dallas.

[@rodragsdale1702]

Yep, I will never forget the look in the guy's face as he passed us by at less than 50 yards, while insisting with the Portland (PDX) tower that he was over a different runway just 5 miles north of us. I was flying a tandem in free-fall and my cameraman was loosing his #{[@** big time. At the time I thought it was interesting to see a twin-engine Bonanza at that altitude and on my level. It was only afterwards that we began to think about what could have been very different outcome! I am sure nothing ever came of his incursion into the DZ air space but it made me far more vigilant in checking for traffic before jumping, a hard thing to do with someone strapped on your belly.

[@johntheune4420]

I really wish they would announce airport IDs in the announcements so I can find them quickly in my EFB/GPS.

[@user-or6bp8qo6g]

Why do pilots try to return to runway after a engine failure, I was always told to look out the front window and fine a place to set it down?

[@StickandGlider]

Flying into Perris, CA taught me a lesson as a fresh PP.

[@RedArrow73]

1:55 - Amigo, the geezer in the foreground of the "ATC" image is a NAVY CAPTAIN. I didn't think Officers equivalent to Bird Colonel worked ATC consoles.

[@sgabriel]

I love how the jumper is leaning against the mixture control, and actually rotating it, with his back. 2:34

[@andrewkirch5920]

Do I have to have a STC to get a hood ornament?

[@Bill_Woo]

Since ATC is not always available, and more importantly even when they are, they really don't know if jumpers are in the air or not ... How about someone inventing a specific and unique transponder for jump planes. When they take off with disposable passengers, throw out a unique 10 mile radius signal. Then have all craft either see an "orange alert" or hear a specific tone phrase that continues until "threat craft" turns it off. As to that radius, have software or electronics mask the signal whenever not in that range. And the range can be time based too.

[@Bill_Woo]

Likewise for military tests, blimps, fireworks, what have you. It seems absurdly primitive to rely upon a hodgepodge of alerts, and notifications. But the rich possibility of human error is undeniable. Take the case of when there *IS* ATC and he knows an event is happening - air show, fireworks, anything. Every single controller needs to get that brief. Needs to remember to tell every single aircraft. Every single aircraft needs to LISTEN to that, and not just hear it and forget it thinking it doesn't apply to them. All this builds haphazardness. Why not automate notifications. We have the technological capability. Come one, it's 1990, man. Are we waiting for 2090 to do this cheap and obvious action? (And it can be continue to be redundantly operated as it currently is, the "hit and miss" condition we have.)

[@flitetym]

Step 1: Call the local FBO. Step 2: Call the jump school. Step 3: Stop worrying.

[@HanSolo1]

It's very easy to identify a jump aircraft on ADS-B. No other aircraft circle airports 10k to 14k feet.... pair that with a PJA symbol and you should have a very good idea.

[@Bill_Woo]

@@HanSolo1 I'm nervous about relying on visual symbol alerts and the "broken" NOTAM hodgepodge as Paul laments. For something that is a "clear and present danger" - which means small dangerous objects in the air, that have no radio, no beacon, and maybe a colorful chute - I like the idea of a sound or flash that a pilot "must" acknowledge. I wonder how many pilots see a jump symbol and just forget it 2 seconds later.

[@pavelavietor1]

hello you are so entertaining . thanks saludos

[@thedave7760]

How often does this happen?

[@brycenpedrick3880]

17N is my home airport. Lots of sky diving ops

[@sectorcodec]

Hey! That’s the airport I’ve done all of my training at!

[@ajnaguy]

First piece of misinformation I've seen you give in my years of enjoying AVweb and your videos, Paul. The sport of kings is horseracing, so what good would a tandem skydive do to learn about that? 8^D Great video, as always.

[@ibnewton8951]

‘Sport of Kings’ remark was tongue-in-cheek in Paul’s usual style.

[@hbpearce]

Love Paul's vids. He's kinda like the Tom Bodett of G.A.

[@spyrosg3172]

More bloopers please.

[@lanceanz]

Loved the colourful bird's-eye view of the flock of parachutes. I'm guessing that the baby Jesus was attached to the smallest canopy.

[@ryancrazy1]

God I love Paul

[@WebberAerialImaging]

Good info! Be great to have the same take on not hitting a powered paraglider pilot. I don't want to be a hood ornament either.

[@DMofTheWorld]

So... Do you guys absolutely Have to put parachute drop zones next to active runways? Why not... Idk... A nice field somewhere?

[@johnsteinberg8540]

There are some DZs separated from the airport (Vegas Extreme for example), but there is a logistical burden of ferrying jumpers back to the airport and another safety concern. If you drop miles from the airport, then pilots might fly through the wrong airspace while thinking they are well clear.

[@coasterchris01]

That sadly actually increases the risk of a collision! We have 3 DZ's. 1 at the airport and 2 further out, based in the wind. On the airfield the traffic is easily separated. The other DZ's not so much! We've had one too many incursions there even though there's a HUGE fluorescent orange "T" in the field, the DZ's are marked on a map, dropping is announced 5 minutes before and during activities. Still people miss it through super poor airmanship. :(

[@ackack612]

C'mon, admit it...nobody does it better than Paul. Period, full stop.

[@RustyorBroken]

Think back to the hood ornament days of the de Soto. A skydiver might look pretty good.

[@gua742]

What a badass!

[@ericpauley5246]

Copilot helping out with the mixture at 2:46.

[@mrmookie]

The classic Eloy meat bag threat. Always got to watch where I'm dropping out of the sky on the way to Tucson.

[@FlyingNDriving]

Cirrus pilots def way more clueless than Mooney pilots, right, RIGHT!?