How To Be A Better Food Forest Designer

[@TheSanctuaryGardens]

It's good to know that there's another system apart from growing on contour. However, don't forget that growing on contour is mainly used on degraded lands to capture, store water and build soil for a new and young forest to thrive. Kindly correct me if I am wrong.

[@emiltrydegard8848]

You've gotten significantly better as an educator and editor only since I started watching you ~a year ago. Keep up the good work, you're inspiring!

[@byrongrows]

Happy to hear that - thank you !

[@consciouslove]

Is this a necessary backhanded compliment…??? Can’t we learn to praise without criticism?

[@YIO777]

​@@consciousloveIs your comment criticism? Why not also praise the man while criticizing his praise? He also encouraged. Plus, this creator literally has roast sessions where he and a group pick apart each other's systems. Food for thought. Peace.

[@wernervivier1002]

People always sees things in others before they see it in themselves

[@WillRogers-g5h]

I have an 8 acre agroforesty system in the Luqullio mountains of Puerto Rico. I’ve been watching your content for a couple of years now and damn have you evolved! I’m not really into the ‘fellowship’ thing but I have so much respect for you, your passion, and TBH the ‘gospel of Brazilian Agroforestry’. In the beginning I thought you were too ‘theoretical’, but after your tours of Brazil everything you say resonates… I’m like ‘DAMN! I wish I had known that years ago!’ Please keep doing this amazing work 😊🎉

[@byrongrows]

Glad I could make that shift for you. Keep those systems flourishing!

[@AmyHarrison1980]

omg, I've been looking at my slope for two years thinking that building terraces and growing on contour doesn't make sense. I'm so glad I found you - Thank you for giving me permission to follow my gut and grow up the slope!

[@byrongrows]

Stoked to help you unlock your land’s potential!

[@alejandrosantana5693]

It depends entirely on your type of land, if you have sandy soil that doesn't compact and no trees then you absolutely need to terrace it and then plant some trees so the roots can pin the slope down. If this is your case and you dont want to make too many terraces then just make a few of them and put down some deep rooting fruit tree that also create a canopy. I use breadfruit.

[@fluffyvader9821]

This seems to me like the most affordable but learning intensive way to garden. I'm a year 2 gardener going from bucks and pallet-made planters to in ground and I am growing some trees from seed this winter. I'm in Pennsylvania zone 6 with a townhouse so this is gonna be fun haha

[@TheGrowingDutchman]

Great job man. Love the details about why it makes sense to plant perpendicular to contour, and where forest veggies fit into succession. Really well explained. Keep up the good work!

[@HankDerb]

Thank you so much for sharing this very important knowledge, brother. BIG LOVE!

[@byrongrows]

Appreciate that!

[@thisarfingai]

Mate, this is absolute GOLD. Thank you SO much.

[@byrongrows]

Thanks !

[@racebiketuner]

Love the PSA for chainsaw safety at 9:03!

[@jesseleith1767]

Loving your stuff Byron! thanks so much for sharing your lessons. We have been practicing biodynamics and permaculture on at our medicine farm and are establishing an agroforestry system based a lot on your content, here in Victoria, Australia. I noticed in this video you speak on permaculture in food forestry importing everything as chips., however there's really two vanes to permaculture, and when it was exported to the international communities, a lot of it's complexities have been lost. Yes, we use A LOT of wood chips on our site, but we are almost at the point where 100% of our organic matter is coming from nitrogen fixing and Eucalyptus species. The base of our agroforestry system will look a lot like yours, however we will chip around 70% of the material. This works better in our climate as we are very dry here, breakdown and microbiome is slower moving & fire risk is high. chipping improves and increases the speed of the nutrient cycle and nutrient breakdown. Also great for beginning a new site. All those savings from terracing machinery could be spent on chipping everything down and reducing weed pressure? We have been using Eucalyptus species as "mineral miners" for a long time, i like to think of it as tree comfrey. There is also good evidence of indigenous people understanding this tree species VERY well, and controlling / utilising eucalyptus to do much of what we are discovering in the movement today. The hormone system was something they clearly understood well, Eucalyptus trees had a high intervention rate for many thousands of years. You should visit some of the projects here in AUS, i think you would get some great content and see some more ideas.

[@ScottWilStrong]

Great video and love the message at the end Creating food forests isn’t just about growing food but reconnecting with ourselves and nature! RFK Jr said a similar thing a few months ago on Tucker Carlson podcast. Connecting with nature brings us closer to the divine. We are nature and it’s time we reconnect.

[@byrongrows]

Couldn't agree more - the food forest is a doorway to a deeper understanding of ourselves & the planet. Thanks for sharing the pod!

[@joshbraaksma7455]

My orchard gardens have a heavy wildlife corridor SURROUNDING them, with old growth trees and scrubs etc like crazy -

[@daviddawson1718]

I am building my home now, and it is back in my woods. I need some suggestions for design. I am a good woodsman, and I am helped by dad, who has been a timber consultant since 1970. I am here to learn.

[@byrongrows]

You’re in the right place! Exciting journey ahead

[@trenomas1]

Which bioregion?

[@CharlesGann1]

Thank you again the insitu organic definitely seems a major key to replacing external inputs which makes it sustainable.

[@saveursvivaces]

Thanks a lot for that share ! I am working on a temerate Clamart system where aromatics (annuals but mostly perennials) are the main crops. Your view on mixing fruits and annuals and reseting support species is an enlightement to me !!! Thank you so much !

[@byrongrows]

Glad you enjoyed it ! Sounds like an awesome system

[@carolewarner101]

That said, how do you get from bare ground to forest in the mean time without losing all your topsoil and having huge erosion?! We get a ton of rain where we live here in the Pacific NW of the US, and we have 100 acres of hilly land that was and in some areas still is a plantation forest of Douglas fir trees. We want to severely thin the forest (which is absolutely overgrown so that all the trees are suffering and it's a huge fire hazard) and in some cases we want to remove the trees entirely to replace areas with an agroforestry and food forest systems. However, just up the road from us, a Christmas tree farmer harvested all his trees to sell last year. Although he replanted immediately, the erosion on his land over just one winter is completely TRAGIC! Predictable, but tragic. Huge cracks have opened up from 1 - 3' deep all up and down his slopes, and piles of top soil lie at the bottom of those slopes where it hasn't washed away entirely. Of course his replanting was on a grid that completely ignored the slope and little to no mulch or anything else was placed on the bare ground to attempt to slow the flow of water down the slopes. That said, even if we don't do terraces per se, we simply cannot just ignore the effect of water on sloped land here. How do you survive the transition from cleared land to forest with your topsoil intact?

[@JackRT2502]

Really good workshop. Well explained, clear, and well paced. thank you so much

[@ET-gg7ux]

Love, love, love thissss!!!! What an abundance of knowledge shared. Thank you Byron, so enjoyed watching and learning from you!!!

[@byrongrows]

Stoked!

[@CharlesGann1]

Love the primary decision determines your system contents.

[@GROWFOODwithCamJames-f1s]

Love it brother 😊 great job. I’ll be rewatching!

[@byrongrows]

Great to hear Cam! Looking forward to seeing how your designs keep levelling up in the fellowship 🔥

[@grn6267]

great content brother once again! I am happy to hear that there is a way to reforest our own hearts!!! Unfortunatelly I live in a concrete city for now but I am inspired to move to a countryside and create a food forest! Cheers from Greece..I would love to hear from you more on how to implement ways of syntropic systems exapmles for a mediteranean climate like my own

[@pepsisformosa242]

Great material. You convinced me it's more convenient to use agroforestry methods than permaculture! One thought I had when you're explaining the annual vegetables garden. Couldn't you use the method of mixing fruit and fast growing chop trees for your annual vegetables so that when they start to produce fruits, you move to another site since it takes years for them to have a good harvest? It looks easier and timesaving to change the plot. In that way you would make the soil more fertile and so forth. Would like to hear your thoughts! Cheers.

[@byrongrows]

Bingo. - that's exactly what I do (shift the veggie area to whatever new system was recently planted) ; this advice was for anyone wanting a long-term vegetable production area to stay in the same plot for years

[@brigitteharris177]

Thanks byron,I've just purchased 22 acres near kaitaia,now to turn it into a massive healing retreat/food forest,THE LIGHTHOUSE,coming soon

[@byrongrows]

Exciting ! Can't wait to hear about it once you're there. Fill the form on my site if you want any guidance down the track

[@aidandavies7232]

I would argue that permaculture isn't stagnant, rather, people become stagnant or dogmatic through habit formation. Permaculture is an ethical design science which utilizes ecosystemic principals. So really it's happy to adopt anything which works for the specific context that is being developed. I'm certainly not trying to have a fight here, I just felt that point had to be addressed. After all, I come to you for my agroforestry tips❤

[@danielnaberhaus5337]

Agreed, its supposed to be open ended and expanded upon.

[@byrongrows]

Happy to clarify; Not saying permaculture as a whole is stagnant, more the 'permaculture' food forests that I've seen are stagnant and missing that support species / heavy pruning dynamic. Not speaking on the design framework as a whole (which is an invaluable set of tools) - just commenting on the permaculture-based food forests I've seen compared to their syntropic counterparts 👍

[@aidandavies7232]

@@byrongrowsfair enough hey, I see your point. I guess I reacted to what I felt was a blanket statement. I also made the mistake of too few supports 😁. They are in now though, and more on the way

[@CharlesGann1]

@@byrongrows appreciate your syntropic info its also evolving as it is fitted to more scaled such as your vineyard. Like the comments since permaculture has helped to get people off the mono crop plow plow. Appreciate the comcepts of off contour since the massive increase of plants being involved. Appears a trade off off eauipment and terra forming for start up cost of 10x plant materials aand the labor to get it in the ground. Appreciate you getting this into english and and am excited to see this spread and innovation to temperate climate as well as tropical. Thank you.

[@sajithomas2158]

As always very useful,thanks

[@HomesteadChris]

So good!

[@lkhfun6575]

Excellent information!

[@nathanielgraham622]

Byron you are such a good communicator! I have found it difficult to relate my experience as a land steward to others. To break everything down into parts follows reductionist thought but SAG and KNF are wholistic and i find that part is better shown in workshops hand to hand master to student. Always looking forward to your vids.

[@byrongrows]

I agree, we learn best with our hands but always can learn to communicate things better / with more clarity !

[@arnobrand519]

This is fantastic! Thank you!

[@byrongrows]

Stoked you enjoyed it!

[@consciouslove]

I just learned so much from you here… Thank you ❤

[@pippawise6877]

Your knowledge is outstanding you deserve more subscribers. I’m leaving a lot from you Many thanks

[@byrongrows]

I appreciate that!

[@tomatito3824]

Thank you thank you thank you! I knew this was going to be gold! 😁👏🥳

[@byrongrows]

Stoked you enjoyed it!

[@FelipeBirdBugTree]

great class!!! glad you learned so much while you were in Brazil.

[@byrongrows]

It's been a life-changing journey for sure, stoked to share the lessons!

[@swiss_arborist_barmetbaump3817]

The soil holds seeds, not just for weeds, But ancient veggies, for future feeds. At ancient sites, disturb the ground, And hidden crops might soon be found.

[@rebeccalefevre1894]

Question...you are talking about heavily pruning trees to return the plant matter to the soil for fertilizer. Ive been reading about the forest gardens of the Maya, they would plant corn and veggies (similar to the "3 sisters" garden of indigenous north americans) in areas with saplings, until the trees were so big they would shade out the corn and veg. Do the corn stalks function like a huge in-system contribution of biomass? Seems as if they are as much for mulch as for food.

[@wernervivier1002]

In South Africa Eucalyptus is considered an invasive species as it takes up an excessive amount of groundwater. I would love to know why Eucalyptus is considered as beneficial in New Zealand syntropical systems

[@tcoxor52]

Byron…Other than your other video (STEEP Food Forest) exploring the off-contour, up-slope design, are you aware of any other YT vids or SA website resources that discuss the topic in greater detail? Specifically the particular design and implementation processes and elements that need to be considered that might differ from a more traditional on-contour or flat ground context? I have a ~2 acre area of my land (~30-40% slope, Mediterranean temperate, PNW, heavy clay) that I’ve been considering how to best develop and had been leaning towards terracing with on-contour swales to help with water infiltration, but the idea of heavy earthworks, like you mentioned, is less than ideal. Developing up-slope lines seems like a great option, though being in a hot-dry, drought prone growing summer season might not make them the most conducive to my context. I’d like to explore the option in more depth, so if you are aware of any other resources I could study would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[@byrongrows]

Have you watched the recent Brazil video? Theres a number of examples in there. Otherwise not many additional resources aside from a few recorded discussions we’ve had in the fellowship

[@royalblood22]

in the first design where was the sun running during the day throughout the day across the rows or along the rows

[@byrongrows]

in the vineyard system the lines are oriented north/south

[@JuanFarmNatural]

Amazing video. Just curious, the off contour system does not have lots of run off when heavy rains happen? Maybe mixing both on contour and off would be better in that case

[@byrongrows]

Not from what I’ve seen, even in heavy-rainfall areas. Organic matter well-organised stops this

[@EntropyFarmGreece]

What happens with dry lands? The tropics is easy.

[@caiolopes7892]

There are some examples of success on the drylands of Brazil, without irrigation. The one that comes to mind is of "Vilmar". They used lots of grass basically, their commercial product is lemon grass and "citronela" for essencial oil and the trees are used to store water on the dry season. Also there are some restrictions of which plant to use to cover the soil. It looks like a savanna (which is an abundance forest system just like amazon addapted to dry climate), but instead of big herds grazing, they harvest the grass (considered as medium strata) and the trees are pruned accordingly to the season

[@tomasyaroschevsky4978]

Thank man!!! On contour is just for a desert o drylands!

[@byrongrows]

Bingo, and even then I'd just be using the access tracks for the 'contour catchment' and still going directly up the slope

[@LucasAdorn]

Where did u get this stuff about dynamic shade and complete proteins vs. free amino acids and disease prone? I just heard Tom dykstra mention something similar the other day. I'm curious to dive deeper into this. I wonder if this is where the myths about plants and incomplete proteins came from.

[@jj-zz2jv]

How do I grow durian tree in agroforestry system? The tree prefer 9 meters diameter space, it wants to take all the sunlight. To have a good harvest, it will get train to grow the horizontal branches, it grow to 4 meters long. Usually we do not remove the apical branch for durian tree. Maybe first year can have other emergent tree but after that the durian tree doesn't like to be shaded anymore. Most of the time when I see the forest with wild durian tree, they are the emergent tree

[@caiolopes7892]

High Strata, you can do as he suggests and cultivate it in between 3-4m to 5-6m tall spacing 5-10 m in between Although for making it easier to manage and harvest you could go for 4m in between plants and occupying the 2-4m range. It wont allow for medium strata on the same row, but some lower ones may fit (up to 1,5m high). Then you could alternate rows as suggested.

[@caiolopes7892]

All the trees that are on the canopy are usually high strata, the emergent ones are usually above the canopy, so they get sun 360 degrees while trees like durian when they are at the canopy even if there is no tree above, there will be at the sides, limiting a little of the sunlight received.

[@jj-zz2jv]

Can I do this kind of row? ===4m===durian tree===4m===gliricidia sepium===1m===bare ground crops vege/tuber===1m===gliricidia sepium===4m===durian tree===

[@YeahMcMad]

Bill Mollison would be proud brother ❤

[@byrongrows]

🫡🫡

[@rajeshrawal1681]

Can you make one more video taking example of subtropical or tropical one

[@maxpossenti3855]

Very ILLUMINATING!! THANK 'S ..I WILL UPPLY IN MY NEW SYSTEM..VERY GOOD CONCEPT 👍

[@byrongrows]

Love to hear it

[@flyingrock6381]

Thanks for the excellent and comprehensive review Byron! Any thoughts on the pros/cons of using motorized mulchers / wood chippers to process prunings?

[@byrongrows]

Chippers are great if you're wanting to grow veggies, otherwise the slower breakdown of larger and more diverse material is better for the soil biology / the system as a whole.

[@flyingrock6381]

@byrongrows clear. Thanks!

[@bengrahamvandersandt2477]

stunning thank you

[@byrongrows]

Stoked you enjoyed it

[@danielnaberhaus5337]

Thanks for the quality information, it's priceless really. I think contour use should correlate with drought severity. In the wetter parts of the globe doing straight lines/syntropic makes more sense. I get 150 inches of rain a year, wtf would I create swales when I have too much water? Just need a few ponds to gravity feed the system during dry spells.

[@byrongrows]

Glad you enjoyed it! Yeah that was where swales were originally intended for, in places with severe dry seasons. Sometimes I'll see pond systems in super dry sites around Brazil, but often the on-contour access paths every ~50m would act as those water catchment areas

[@dortek882]

What you explained about slappe vs contour didnt make sense. How do such systems look?

[@virusmyth4930]

Could you point to any video of a long-term successful implementation of the food forest concept? And by that I mean, any food forest case where you actually get what is advertised, meaning increased harvests, working less and without pretending you arent clearing any forest to do it. Oh, and dont forget about not killing any bugs or other living beings. You're in harmony with nature, after all, arent you?

[@lucschoonen]

what are good alternatives for banana's for cold climates? willow, alder?

[@byrongrows]

Bingo. And poplar, possibly dogwood. But I’d recommend you plant as many fast growing evergreen-trees as you can find in your area too, that way not everything goes dormant in winter

[@lucschoonen]

@@byrongrows yeah that's great advise, I have heard of some synergy between birch and pines. Dogwood does not produce a lot of biomass in my experience (in The Netherlands anyway).

[@astridadler6467]

​@@lucschoonenJerusalem artichoke, elaeagnus, elecampagne, elder, ash, siccamore

[@lucschoonen]

@ thanks!

[@nananaananaanananaananaan4171]

contrags man nice work

[@byrongrows]

Appreciate the feedback

[@MyLoganTreks]

My only disagreement is instead of eucalyptus which can become invasive, please plant native hard wood hammock trees that are native to that area. Mahogany, or other notable species that create native diversity and bring in native habitat

[@LauraVe-m9y]

Dear Byron, Do you have sources for the complete proteins vs. Free amino acid production of trees? I would like to incorporate that into my scientific work and need sources :)

[@byrongrows]

Yeah absolutely - we spent 4 days learning from an agroforestry researcher Dr Walter Steenbock from the South of Brazil. He's got a few publications (books and research studies) Here's a link to some of his work link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10457-019-00377-5

[@sonjaveda9832]

Fantastic

[@byrongrows]

Thanks for watching

[@PlantRelated]

Thank you! Can this be done in bone dry Australia or Africa, without doing the contouring?

[@byrongrows]

There were examples of this practice being used in bone-dry parts of Brazil, so I'd imagine yes

[@sajithomas2158]

WOW!

[@Norbingel]

Still not clear on why working off contour, up a slope would be easier. Going up and down a tree line would take far more energy than going side to side, on contour. You finish a line on contour, go down (or up) to the next line and go side to side again. It's the difference between going up and down a slope vs side to side. What am I missing?

[@byrongrows]

Ergonomics of walking directly up vs across on an angle. Thousands of hours over the lifespan of your system. It makes a difference

[@Norbingel]

@@byrongrows But if your tree line is on contour, you're basically walking along a more or less flat area. You walk across, go up (or down) to the next tree line, walk across to the other end again on more or less flat ground, walk up (or down) again to the next line, and so on. If your tree line goes up and down, you walk up the slope, cross over to your next line, walk down the slop along your next tree line, cross over to the next, climb up the slope again, and so on. In other words, you walk up and down the slope more vs across on more or less flat ground. Our property is on a slope and walking up and down is definitely more tiring than walking left to right. I'm imagining having our tree lines go up and down and having to walk up and down the slope for each line and I just don't see how it's more efficient. I'm not saying you're wrong btw, I'm just saying I don't see how based on our own situation.

[@SaveTheAyeAye]

Something else to consider is the earthworks involved in creating the contours. Super labor intensive to create and in the end it wastes space and productivity. It was mentioned to have larger access paths on contours but the plantings themselves are not, seems like the best of both scenarios.

[@Norbingel]

@@SaveTheAyeAye do you mean swales? They're not necessary even when building on contour. We have small hand dug ones (inaccessible to heavy machinery and we couldn't afford them anyway). In any case, I was just referring to just the efficiency of going up and down per tree line vs right to left.

[@SaveTheAyeAye]

@@Norbingel I think he meant wear and tear on your body like your ankles. Constantly working horizontally is unbalanced depending on your slope. Just like the swales your body will be uneven.

[@CharlesGann1]

Realize this isnt the place to explain other scenarios other than tropics. In a temperate or mediterranean where you have winter and the leaf fall and

[@gaebitch3200]

I wouldn’t say can’t explain it but absolute he did not relate it. (Still a great vid tho, very useful) I believe seasonal annuals will be much more useful in a Mediterranean climate, as u say, some advice like the support trees, I don’t believe would work well in a Mediterranean environment.

[@Bizarreparade]

Should I also look like I just got back from Burning Man? Fully dressed of course😂

[@SuperVlerik]

Re: vegetables and succession ........ Sounds like Swidden/Fallow systems practiced by forest peoples, and denigrated by post-colonial agronomy, are finally regaining their respect.

[@byrongrows]

This was how our ancestors integrated their lives into the forest. Clearing / Regrowth / Clearing / Regrowth

[@GuardianPrepping]

.... Do I take personal offense or not to the Guardian comment at 25:00 Haha

[@shrimuyopa8117]

This is kind of a controversial topic but I believe for most people they are taking from their food forest but they are not adding anything back. Here is what I mean by that with an example. You eat a banana from your food forest. You have taken carbon and nitrogen from the food forest and that is easily replaced because those elements come from the air (generally speaking). However, you have also taken potassium and calcium and other minerals from your food forest and most people are then flushing those minerals down the toilet (literally), into our rivers, lakes, and oceans. Where are the replacements for these minerals coming from? Yes, rain does provide some but not enough to replace what you have taken. Some people have figured out how to add their feces and urine, safely, back into their food forests. However, how does that work in a commercial agroforestry system, they clearly aren't collecting feces from their customers lol. I believe that is why it is necessary to do amendments in your food forest from time to time. The issue is drastically much more problematic in current massive corporatized agriculture but that is a much larger issue.

[@byrongrows]

These nutrients and minerals are replaced by the nutrient-cycling from pruning support species that you've planted in the system

[@tomatito3824]

While indeed sewers going into the ocean is pretty negligent and wasteful, the minerals in sand, silt, clay and rocks are virtually unlimited I think. Healthy ecosystems can bring to the topsoil everything they need through the nutrient cycling. Long before those run out (if ever) there will be more pressing issues like the next glacial age in like 5000 years.

[@normanvasquez5968]

Permaculture is a design science guided by ethics. Is not a step-by-step guide like you are describing, like doing swales for a food forest or applying compost for annuals. All you are teaching, and syntropic agroforestry, could still be permaculture. Permaculture is a way of life, a philosophy, a design science. That's why I encourage you to stop saying that permaculture people do it this way but is better this other way. Everything is context-dependent.

[@byrongrows]

I'll make a video teasing the two apart

[@2A_supporter]

Remember unless it’s swale setup and placement or check dams then it’s all up to personal preference on how to integrate all the plants together…. Been doing this since a kid that’s more experience and know how than anyone who went to college for 4 to 8 years sorry… but it’s not rocket science in fact it’s so simple people get it wrong time and time again.

[@byrongrows]

For sure, if you prefer inefficient and hard-to-manage systems but it's all personal preference at the end of the day. This isn't based on college classes - It's real world examples of farmers at the cutting edge of syntropic agroforestry. You watched the whole video?

[@ichifish]

I think you misunderstand or perhaps purposefully misrepresent some aspects of permaculture. First, permaculture designs for arid regions use contouring because it captures water. Planting perpendicular to the contour lines does not do this unless you already have mature plants and soil. Second, permaculture programs that generate enough organic matter to meet their needs don't import it. Those that do not (arid with degraded soils) have no other alternative.