How to Beat a Moonballer

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In today's tennis lesson I teach you how to beat the dreaded moonballer.
0:00 Six minute moonball rally
0:21 Why it is tough to beat moonballers?
1:47 Should you become a moonballer?
2:30 How to beat a moonballer?
3:04 Timing
6:48 Intensity
8:01 Shot selection
9:35 Coming to the net
10:07 Swing volleys
10:38 Moonball backhands
12:53 What to do vs really good moonballers?
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#intuitivetennis #moonball

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Related: How to beat a pusher? 👉 kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYXYk4hnabRmZ6ssi=K_3ODboGTDpIgB-X

[@pakchu2]

The title should read How to Beat a Moonballer Eventually After a Ton of Practice. If you're losing to a moonballer today, unless it's razor close, chances are no matter what you do in your next match, you will still lose. I think the two most important tips Nik gives here are maintain patience and keeping the high ball out in front.

[@Dan1elAndrade]

Of course. Beating someone challenging requires practice, regardless of what you do, it requires several tries

[@timesize]

If you can’t beat a ‘moonballer’ then your ground stroke is nothing to write home about either

[@2ddw]

Some of the most difficult players are moonballers with a weapon. They get you into a moonball rally and then you drop it short and then they kill the ball.

[@ichich9332]

Welcome to clay court tennis

[@jz228]

I just had my first match against pusher and moonballer last night, with 2 and half hours only completed two sets. I had my opportunity of finishing winning both sets, but failed in one set. It is exhausting, and physically demanding to play a match against your intuition and generate all the pace by yourself, and frustrated by the unforced errors when you don't have the patience... Need to do another set in a few days, will definitely utilize the strategy learned here today and see if I can implement it with confidence.

[@dnisbet71]

Whats your utr?

[@robcarter55]

@jz228 My game was serve and volley so you can imagine my problems with these people

[@interested891]

I'm 90 seconds in to this video and I've seen enough moonballs already to send me into a deep depression and convince me to quit tennis forever. I really wanted to watch this video and learn to combat the moonballer. But now I realize I'm so emotionally drained and damaged that I can't even lay eyes on a moonball without looking for alcohol and drugs and perhaps something stronger.

[@robcarter55]

@interested891 Agree lol For some players they seem to only have that shot but practice it endlessly and when that is your only shot you can get very good at it. Within the rules but spoils the game I thought

[@whodefan]

I got into a moonball rally once in doubles. I switched to a full-western grip and got underneath the ball and gave it a ton of topspin and super-super high. The ball bounced and cleared the fence for a winner.

[@robcarter55]

Used to play one team that did nothing but moon ball and it was very effective. They would try to moon ball every shot including serves. Thanks for the video

[@HeavyTopspin]

The one issue that most true moonballers have is that they will generally stay behind the baseline and never try to take the opponent's ball early. I personally have always hit with a lot of topspin (think old school eastern grip 80s style), so my topspin lobs usually wind up hitting the back wall or fence at well above head level. Usually after a couple of those, the moonballing stops - and if it doesn't, I've got the key to victory right there. So... yeah, learn a good topspin lob, since they're also a great weapon against normal players.

[@ichich9332]

This

[@jaekn]

@@ichich9332 You can just hit the thumbs up if you're not going to add anything. Saying "this," is worthless.

[@clintonsmurf6496]

I played a tournament and got to the quarters. I won first set, but after that the guy totally changed tactics and started moonballing with varying height. Some so high that it would probably hit ceiling of an indoor court. It totally messed up my rhythm and I lost the next two sets. But after that I learned how to handle it. Usually now before playing I hit against a wall to practice hitting high balls, swinging volleys, and overhead smashes. 70-80% practice are these shots. It totally helps before playing various people at rec level. Have to practice the most uncomfortable shots, and also when people give moon balls you need to reframe in your mind to think “yes this is what I want to get for practice” rather than “oh man I hate these”. Look forward to getting them

[@nvn2005]

Slice shots pretty effective against moonballers. Fact are they don’t like to come up to the net much, so slices will force them to cover the net and higher percentage shot for you

[@Mavert83]

Thank God I passed this phase 2 years ago. I was big hitter with very low net approach, and I was struggling too - you just need to become better at net game and power strokes selection strategy. I’ve seen people (mostly big hitters) in other courts struggling with moonballers and I always laugh. But I believe you need sometimes these type of players to see where you are and improve your overall game. But yeah I get it 😂

[@PizzaPartify]

watching people struggle make you laugh ?

[@Mavert83]

@@PizzaPartify I’m pure evil - Also don’t go to a comedy club, not for you.

[@Shaunsweeney-Kubach71]

I am short and I am able to overheads and I was taught as a younger person I learned how to hit the ball in the air! Great job on the video Coach Nick!

[@huinyavaina]

same here, I was taught decades ago to treat the moonball as a serve - wherever you are on the court - just hit a serve intra-point :)

[@IntuitiveTennis]

On slow flat moonballs you might be able to do bounce overheads, however, even a little bit of spin and depth makes hitting overheads off moonballs close to impossible.

[@CelticGunner1992]

I think it's a valuable experience to play moonballers, especially the ones that have the odd bit of aggression & variety to their game. Great test of your fundamentals & consistency.

[@rbarreira2]

Yes but not too often because let's face it, it's probably not very fun.

[@domclarke8182]

Great video as always! Concentration and fitness is key against the moonballers. Don't get impatient and force a shot, you're better waiting for that short ball, it will come. Lots of footwork will make you tired, but don't get lazy as you'll miss.

[@sincitystealth1]

Another great instructional video. Thanks!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@kleinestennis]

Thank you for using my moonball rallye as inspiration for this video!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

My pleasure Stephan 🔥🙌

[@karlopeternel7685]

✨️😎✨️

[@svenhilla975]

Ich mag Deinen Kanal, drücke die Daumen, dass er weiter wächst

[@butacaexplosiva333]

Thx idol. Greetings from Argentina!

[@brenhugh]

You covered all the bases as usual, Nick. Thanks a lot.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

My pleasure!

[@hayesmaker64]

Great stuff.. it was after losing 6-0, 6-0 to a moon baller a few years back that got me searching for videos on how to beat them - that I came across your channel! Looking forward to the 1 handed backhand tutorials

[@IntuitiveTennis]

🙌🙌

[@marcorenato1814]

Well done on a highly informative video on how to counter the dreaded moonball... could've used this when playing junior tennis! Looking forward to the high OHBH tutorial. Amazed at how much quality advice you keep packing into these videos.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Glad it was helpful!

[@cossav2560]

amazing advice. Thanks

[@IntuitiveTennis]

My pleasure!

[@brycehuff]

Great video! These were the players who constantly beat me when I played in high school until I started practicing my high backhands.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

💯🙌🔥

[@CH-yp5by]

Really really great video! I have a lot to practice!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Glad it was helpful!

[@parkmacdougald1749]

Hey Nick, on the one-hander, I'd recommend moving to an open stance and pushing off the back foot to deal with moonballs. Conventional wisdom is to always try to hit a one-hander out of a closed stance, but I've seen both Thiem and Tsitsipas adopt the open stance to deal with high balls, with good success in Thiem's case and decent success in Stef's. Makes it a bit easier to swing low-to-high with a high contact point since the front shoulder doesn't inhibit the upward movement of the racquet as much.

[@huntsail3727]

Another good one, will take this to the practice court tomorrow morning. Thanks

[@IntuitiveTennis]

🔥

[@huntsail3727]

@@IntuitiveTennis I wanted to give you a follow up. I took this tip to the court (take a moon ball not on the rise or in the normal hitting range but higher around the chest/shoulder area as it comes down, and drive the ball) and it worked amazingly well. Not only is it a more powerful shot, but it is also a more consistent reliable shot. Great job! Thanks

[@vincenttennis4936]

Great advice! Easy to be a moonballer then beat one at a recreational level

[@donpham8901]

I’d love to see how to deal with a moonballer in doubles. Moonballer’s partner was an aggressive volleyer. I won by drop shots and pulling the moonballer to net. Wondering if there any tactics you recommend.

[@dariusd2003]

It helps to be tall 6'4. I can normally hit through moon ballers and sometimes hit an overhead. I remember the days of losing due to poor shot selection trying to go for outright winners to avoid moonballing. I've witnessed the dreaded high heavy topspin moonball that's practically a winner if you don't hit it on the rise before it pushes you to the back fence. A lot of ladies had this issue on my mixed team.

[@gdwlaw5549]

My moon-baller manages to do a lot of drop shots and then lobs me. I can’t wait to play him again! Cheers

[@dalbirsinghchadhazzs6425]

Nice video

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Thanks

[@nightrush79]

You are so intuitive!!!! Wernt you just playing Tommy Paul??? Thanks Teach

[@alastairtheduke]

Can you fight fire with fire ? On high balls, I can sometimes generate a heavy topspin , high shot that makes the ball bounce into the back fence. Would this be a good tactic?

[@rbarreira2]

Yeah that's probably what Nadal would do to beat a moonballer.

[@shoeblaze]

I've heard some other channels advise to try to make the moonballer play a front to back game, i.e. instead of trying to make them run side to side like a normal player, make them run forwards and backwards on the court to get them to make an error or give you an easier or more familiar ball to hit back. What do you think about this?

[@PrecisionPointTennis]

Great video! I’ve really mastered the moon ball with pace and spin and I use it a lot…it also gives me extra time. I hit it good enough that many times my opponent can’t do anything but try and overhead it. I’m figuring out how how to combine it better with my flat and much faster forehand.

[@alastairtheduke]

I wonder if it is easier to just hit bend knees and overhead some of these shots

[@PrecisionPointTennis]

@@alastairtheduke only a really really good player can do that and actually get an advantage point coming over the net. It’s not easy and all the shots I’ve done I’ve never had an opponent overhead a winner back to me

[@jonathanduck5333]

​​@@PrecisionPointTennisIt is possible when the ball is very short, on a deep ball that would be way too risky

[@PrecisionPointTennis]

@@jonathanduck5333 if I hit it high and short, I deserve to be beaten on that point. The goal is to hit deep close to the baseline with a high ball, and have the time to be ready for their response…if they’re going to risk going for a low percentage shot, all the better. The odds are in my favor. In the end it’s about getting the last ball in 🎾😎

[@johnward8064]

We have one guy in our group who lobs everything. I started lobbing it back over and over, and he didn’t like playing against his own style.

[@chevy4x466]

There is no rule saying a player has to play the way u want them to play. A less gifted hitter may be a great junk ball player

[@MichaelWalker-wu2pq]

I had to finally deal with a moon baller for the 1st time last year. He wasn't doing it intentionally, he was a beginner who found out that if he sent it ridiculously high he was guaranteed to get it over the net and i was trying to play it on the hop. I was embarrassed to lose an entire set to him even as a solid 3.5 player. I just have never dealt with it before and it threw me off balance.

[@dirkhaar2243]

I wonder if you ever played against guys whose moon balls always land on the line... On a normal court, you won't have enough place to go backwards to hit the ball on its way down - volley is the only option..

[@tatavo7405]

You can take the ball on the rise

[@ianbuick8946]

Nick is very accurate about he timing and intensity. Here is another perspective on instruction that may make sense to other people: Step 1: Change your grip. Don't bother if you still have continental grip. Difficult with eastern grip but if you're tall guy go for it. Semi-western and western is the best if you want to contact around head level high. Step 2: Keep the left hand (aiming hand) out at 2 o'clock as long as you can, then move in position. Expect your racket with go vertical, don't force it. Step 3: Don't take racket too far back...yet. Try 3 o'clock then 4 then 5. Incoming ball still has some pace if you take it on the rise, you are closer to the service line plus taking time from opponent so no need for power like groundstroke. You feel like you don't have power at first but clean contact is crucial because everytime you miss shot like this you will mentally be scared and go back to the old way. I've been there, done that. Step 4: Keep your head still to the right if you're right handed. I learned the hard way that i move my head tiny bit early, i shank the ball. Step 5: Like Nick said, aim big. Get ready to do it again. This is a high level shot and require constant practice.

[@milanvincic9668]

First! Rec players dread moonballers. They simply give you balls you are not used to Thanks for the video Nick

[@IntuitiveTennis]

thank you Milan

[@ACEYOU]

With a one-handed backhand, why couldn't you hit a high slice, starting high, and chopping down, instead of topspin, from low to high as you suggest?

[@inout2998]

How do you beat "moonballers" in doubles? It seems the advise in singles play would not work.

[@cristovaolopes9519]

On the raise ,always on the raise Traine

[@nick_czem_nick656]

Would FH slice work in such situations?

[@CSLBRK]

should take the ball on the rise around head or shoulder because you will be more inside the court and it give's you a steeper angle, so less chances to miss less time for the oponent to respond!

[@igo2054]

this kind of moonballer is not such a big problem I have tennis sparing partner that plays super high but also with a lot of top spin + everything falls almost on the line its a nightmare honestly I have no idea what to do to beat him

[@Leapops]

Learn to drive volley. Take the deep ones out of the air.

[@Mavert83]

We also have a similar guy in our group but he hits very similar to Rafa. Depending of how the ball comes either step back or take it early, push him thru deep slices and change game a bit. I learned to do a similar shot to push him as well. 😂 Just in case you are wondering, I’m a big hitter with flat/spin forehands and backhands. My motion is similar to Alcaraz. But obviously I can’t generate as much power as him 🤣🍺

[@igo2054]

@@Mavert83 yeah I am an also flat hitter, slice is not a bad idea but its a challange to hit a good slice when the ball bounces high (backhand side), most of the time I am trying to just hit cross court similar way like him and be patient but its a frustrating type of match

[@Mavert83]

Gotta mix it up and become a bit unpredictable even for yourself. Not all high balls are sliceable, but the are some that you can slice down with force and deep and that’s the ones I select sometimes to push them so I can get to net to kill point or they give me an easy to medium ball so I can hit a winner or push and move them again. It’s not easy but at this point, your mental and physical abilities have to be full aware of how the match is gonna go. The more you do this the easier it becomes. Best of luck bro

[@igo2054]

@@Mavert83 thanks these are really good tips

[@watersmoke1114]

ah ah, excellent and so funny, I have just tried moonballing against a junior who was small and as he was much better on fast pace shots, but we ended up in moonballing both and I lost 6-1 and 6-2 😮 in 1h45, as I could not take the opportunity

[@kristalize85]

How do you go against a Moonballer that comes with a lot of top spin that the moonball bounce over your head like a kick serve?

[@rbarreira2]

I think the options are the same ones, they just get harder the more topspin/pace there is. At some point such a player can no longer be called a moonballer, they just have amazing shots.

[@Didymus1984]

Thanks, Nik! Now can you please do a video that teaches you how to instill a sense of dignity and self-respect in the Moonballer?

[@alastairtheduke]

it's impossible

[@michaeltomczyk1101]

That looked like a Kathy Rinaldi and Andrea Temesvari match from back in the day.

[@rbrianharris]

I'd hit a weak return in front of service line. No pace. Let them try to move forward and adjust their trajectory. My guess is they'd go long a lot. If they don't, then hit it right at them (not in anger, it's just the percentage play at the net for weak players).

[@thomaskorah4115]

Moonballers are the ultimate test. They don’t beat you. They create all the conditions for you to beat yourself. I generally stress more against a moonballer than a big hitter! I hate playing them, but I respect them.

[@pedroarnaboldi6549]

You could also try bringing them to the net, to keep them out of their comfort zone

[@hillelhalevi]

I went into moonball mode to disrupt the rhythm of an aggressive opponent.

[@robertoyamakata6672]

Remember with respect Mr. HAROLD SALOMON. Perhaps this is a good place to mention him. The father of all moonballers 😂

[@georgemavrides3434]

Most these are prime for smashes. Once they get a couple of smashes back...the moonballing stops.

[@gregoryphillips3969]

What about moving forward and taking the ball out of the air? Connors had a lot of success against clay court players doing this.

[@chevy4x466]

Probably the only real strategy. U can’t afford to keep hitting 5 feet behind the baseline

[@SuperHammaren]

Not enough to win a single tournament on red clay though.

[@gregoryphillips3969]

@SuperHammaren Connors did win tournaments on clay yes it wasn't red clay. He did get to the semis of the French Open and probably would have won this tournament in 1974 when he was killing everyone but wasn't allowed to play the French.

[@NamesAreRandom]

Typical high level coach response involving repeatedly hitting moonballs flat into the corners and other such low % shots. It won't work, the moonballer is an expert, they can moonball everything, and their %'s for just moonballing your flat shot back are much higher then your % of hitting it. Some more sensible advice: 1) move them side to side don't like we saw in the video just hit down the middle, you can move them and still keep your % up while making their life harder. 2) just drop the height of your return a bit so it's still half a moonball but has more penetration, that's still pretty safe but makes their life harder particularly if you move them around too. 3) intentionally play it short, they will probably attack it but are so used to hitting low to high to moonball will hit it long, next time they will push it in to be safe which will give you a shorter ball that's not a moonball while they are out of position. 4) hit forehand slices - you can hit them shoulder to head height easily, that will tend to give a return that's a bit of a floaty slice serve - much harder to moonball as it's low and has some side spin but for you is still a high % shot after a bit of practice.

[@gomriria2197]

banana shot works great against moonball

[@BlowGOAT]

Moonball with top spin is fun. It’s like super high kickserve and opponent gets confused

[@chevy4x466]

No doubt the toughest ball to handle for most, especially if ur can put it in a corner and come to the net for a put away. Moo balls, junk balls, and volley 😎

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

Yeah I have a friend that’s a little brother is literally the biggest moon Baller on the planet, and I would lose to him or the score would be super close, which I hated because I was like I should be destroying this kid and he wasn’t even that good. My strategy initially was just to hit the ball super hard at him really deep and flat which worked, but the only problem is I could barely get the ball over the net so it really did not work long-term.

[@chevy4x466]

If he wasn’t that good, what does that say for u. Moonball and junk balls are a part of the game.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

@@chevy4x466 it’s not really an issue anymore but that’s why I got so frustrated and discouraged before. Because it’s someone I should’ve been beating but I was allowing them to defeat me.

[@andreip83]

I thought it would be easier but it's though. Played one recently and bearly lost. I'm not used to them. You need great patience. I swear it feels I have too much time and that I overthink it. I would come to the net on a reasonable shot and they would hit flat and hard :)) I think hard and flat is the best style agains them, but my strokes are topspinny usual and don't manage hard and flat always and with consistency, especially when tired. I'm putting more energy into them than they do for moonballs. Dropshots work against them, i think slices also if you can manage with high balls. Again, such an ugly style to play against them, especially when you don't have the proper weapons 😊

[@jadawin1137]

Couldn't you also play "low overheads" from the baseline, like the shot you're playing at 9:55 at the net? Where you basically duck down a bit so you can take a ball that isn't quite high enough as an overhead. I've been trying that off the moonball-bounce at the baseline, with balls that don't bounce high enough for a normal overhead but still high enough for one if I make myself just a bit smaller.

[@alastairtheduke]

I think this can work if you have plenty of time, just don't try to finish the point. Even pros, when they hit overheads from the base line , they put topspin on it to get it in the court. So you'd still need a few of them to get a short ball against a good moonballer

[@TheDmonet]

Slice overhead against a lot of those shots can get points ended more quickly. If you hit like an 80% hard slice overhead that shot is harder to loop high over the net

[@ichich9332]

You will hit 90% of balls into the net or fence. The quota from these balls is insanely bad.

[@Lanten77]

Hi Nik, what do you think about the additional option of taking the ball early at around chest or eye level and chipping low, not as short as a drop shot, just medium-soft and low? That would make it difficult for the moon baller to hit another moon ball since they will be hitting the ball from inside the baseline and Low... Good way to break up the pattern and get a lower bouncing ball back which can then be driven or otherwise hit offensively. Also, the chip is a lot easier physically to execute than driving a ball at shoulder height, especially for older players

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Chipping high balls is tricky. Very easy to let the ball sit up…

[@user-lf7kd5qu7b]

No moonballer is hitting the ball that easy, they put on crazy topspin and hit very deep

[@escgoogle3865]

Practice on a short court. I lived near a super short court bounded on one side by a lake. Ya' learn how to hit on the rise and catch it on the fly.

[@Feanor1992]

The most effective way to beat a moonballer is to find a valid excuse and forfeit the game. Been doing it for years and I've never felt better. I've eventually run out of pushers; Only odds of finding another is if I find a somone to play against online. Some guys who know me outside tennis and are professional moon ballers are now too embarrassed to approach and ask me to play lmao. Tennis is meant to be enjoyable and moonballing ain't tennis. I have more respect and patience for someone who has a bad technique but still tries to play aggressive tennis. Moonballing is not a strategy it's a mentality for people who're unwilling to take risks and are obsessed with the score. What's the point of playing if you're not pushing yourself out of your comfort zone both physically and mentally?

[@alexisgonzales2958]

Well, tell me what you would do with this. I'm 5'2" & normally I can get there to make a pretty hard overhead shot from the back. Last night, the ball is hitting the back fence before it can get low enough for me to neutralize it. I am still so pissed I can't see anything today other than the smug amused look on their faces. We are 3.0's & in 4 years, I have NEVER played someone who does this cheap BS very consistently. After the 35th rocket dropped back to earth, I was absolutely exhausted & more than just a little angry at this team's unwillingness to play actual tennis players. My partner & I have good variety & power. The height of these balls were massive, the rise was so steep & ridiculous that judging the timing felt impossible. I couldn't get it out of the air like I would be able to do off of a "normal" lob-- which I also think are cowardly when used excessively. Maybe I just need to learn how to moon ball like an asshole??

[@davidjung8394]

Coming ro the net is dangerous since moon ballers are good at lobbing. I practice back court smashes (2nd serve)...wicked spins 😂 No joy playing one of these guys 😢

[@yonexfan12]

I just overhead the moonball from anywhere on the court on the forehand side, hit a angled slice on the one handed backhand since I am 6'4", I can create the angle easily downward. Even on serves that get shoulder level I can slap it back kzbin.info/www/bejne/jarXdKqsl52Eg7M

[@vanlendl1]

Do not forget to look on the fuel gauge.

[@jeffhopkins8131]

Nadal is a low level moonballer, then strikes when the time is right. I think he’s done ok?

[@user-bu5sg4rz6g]

Fly meeeee tooo the mooooooon

[@razorback9926]

Most moonballers are terrible at the net. I feed them drop shots, then pass or lob.

[@yakzivz1104]

I moonball when i'm exhausted so i can have extra recovery time. 🤪

[@albertcamus5970]

Umm. Can't you just hit overheads? I mean I have heard of heavy moonballers that hit with a good amount of pace that you can't hit overheads off. But quite honestly I would love to play against the moonballers in the video. If you are tall its overhead city - such fun. I see the same thing in doubles - people get into lob contests for no reason. Overhead is the most fun shot in the game. Any chance you get to hit them is a good time.. I dunno for a guy whose serve is his best shot - wouldn't you encourage some overheads? Unlike the serve you can hit it in a much wider area. I am not even a good player but topspin lobbers are not a problem. Nadalesque guys who push you back with topspin and pace - of course they would kill me.

[@l.rongardner2150]

NASA can't get men to the moon, but moonballers can get tennis balls close to it.

[@billucf96]

Someone starts moonballing me I just call it out even if it lands in the middle of the court. I can't stand cheaters, but I despise moonballers even more.

[@robertlevasseur8896]

I dunno...if you are consistently losing to moonballers you are probably losing consistently to everyone. This is just stuff beginners figure out naturally to get better.

[@gasdia73]

Sempre odiato i pallettari

[@karadagmert]

HEAVY TOPSPIN Moon ball to the backhand side is the key. Guys, not Flat Moonballs, just send them heavy topspin Moonballs, then see them kissing the fences..

[@ichich9332]

Just a tip: Beautiful Tennis does not win

[@robcarter55]

@ichich9332 Jeremy Clarkson had the right answer for both driving and more so for tennis Speed and power lol

[@VSNxx]

We see lots of moon-balling in women’s tennis. Women like the moon. 😂😂😂

[@almostfancyconnoisseur8929]

I think most of the advice in tennis is bullshit … simply be cause people seem to forget how unfair and devilish this sport can be … unfortunately when it comes to winning , the mental game is more important than technique and that can give entry to a lot of impostors whose only real talent is resilience and being consistent with their poor technique. By the skin of their teeth they manage to win sometimes even against much better players

[@JasonEkonomakos]

If you know how to play tennis and purposely do these moonballs for amateur games its kinda pathetic. Youre not practicing to be better at tennis, you're making the game extremely boring, and you're wasting opponents time. For what? To get an amateur win with no fun or skill improvement invlolved?

[@myth317]

Too much talk and not much action