How to become 25 seconds faster | FREE SPEED

[@brianwright9514]

Guys, I like the video and the conclusion is sound. However, the real reason for this phenomenon is that speed is not linear with power, if you increase power by 25% you will not get a 25% increase in speed. I get the feeling that some people will assume this smoothness benefit is purely due to some physiological phenomenon.

[@nicholasbesse710]

You're absolutely right! We'd discussed bringing this up, but wanted to keep it relatively simple. Our thinking is that some people assume that an average of 300W is the same, no matter how you got there. We wanted to show that it pays to keep the effort smooth.

[@chrisko6439]

The whole test is kind of useless: aerodynamic drag is proportional to the velocity², so the outcome was obvious. We can observe this "phenonemon" at every stage race: on flat TTs, the riders are quicker than on hilly ones, for the reason mentioned above. edit: on a sidenote: Me being a 67kg guy, I probably would struggle to do any of these efforts on the flat... Round 3 I can't even manage uphill, I reckon.

[@marcj8464]

It's the same reason why you use more gas (or battery) driving 100 miles at 55 mph than the same distance at 65 mph.

[@VeloJake]

Furthermore, the time you can hold a power decays quickly at increased power, which is why PD curves have a log scale on the duration axis. So, the time you can hold 10% below threshold vs 10% above threshold is gigantic, and the speed difference is really not that crazy on level ground. On a steep grade it becomes more linear and therefore more worth the effort, but still.

[@marcj8464]

@DieselPower Speed is linear with power in a vacuum. The loss comes because aerodynamic drag increases exponentially with speed.

[@Nomgoose]

Cornering is hugely important, and one of the biggest parts of that is confidence. In a race scenario, it is easy to get scared off the wheel through a corner, and really the only way to get better at it is to do more of it. Get some friends and practice cornering shoulder to shoulder. Learn how to hold a line. Once it clicks, it clicks. I've found practicing this to gain confidence as an invaluable tool, especially for those newer to racing.

[@martinkent333]

Do you obey traffic laws in town?

[@ronnyrosario8094]

Bucket List 24. Meet Jeff of NorCal Cycling 25. Take a picture next to the Alviso RV.

[@endeavour5316]

Omg Yes I will remember this once I get older and for sure on the bucket list as well

[@martinkent333]

Do you obey traffic laws in town?

[@kylehagertybanana]

Considering doing a 80 mile round trip ride holy pilgrimage to alviso

[@Mylittledistraktions]

Thanks for the video. But man the sounds level change is wild. From vocals to the music.

[@martinkent333]

Vinh, do you obey traffic laws in town? Do you have time to chat?

[@kylehagertybanana]

@@martinkent333 How's your last month been Martin?

[@SuperSkatefun]

Hello Jeff, my cousin and me had a discussion about which way is faster to go a hill up and down: 1. 300W up the hill and down 2. 600W up and 0W down 3. 100W up and 500W down (i know this is silly :D) Would be great to see this test!

[@cyclingmilan]

physics has figured this out a long time already, no need for a discussion, just look it up.

[@anitakocsis4942]

@@cyclingmilan I think the correct answer is the 3rd. It will be faster.

[@CsrGER]

I really like that you are upping your edditing game, but please turn the music volume down, consitency is eficiency…

[@respek2933]

Yes agreed

[@HandFedMole]

@@respek2933 it’s definitely more interactive, having to turn the tv up and down every 20 seconds.

[@newttella1043]

Either get a better mic to talk into or turn down the music. It's like how annoyingly loud commercials are compared to a TV show or sports cast.

[@shinsegi8422]

The ' yaay ' noises in the video take the seriousness away from the video imo 😭 kinda weird

[@Ejstrainingcamp]

As the guy who edited this I’m super sorry for that. In my headphones in my editing studio the audio level was perfect and I didn’t really account for TV audio (which was really dumb of me) hopefully you guys can still enjoy the video and that kind of audio mistake won’t happen again.

[@Brdaification]

Air resistance grows exponentialy with speed. That sums it all up :) Because when you have constat power, you are riding with “minimum” top speed, on contrary at 800W, more speed is eaten by air resistance.

[@Coldhardt007]

Thats why you should focus your power on ascends, since your not losing as speed due to air resistance :)

[@rodcosta2345]

Great video! Also thanks for the Stages code!!!! Been looking for a PM for a while and finally got one!

[@JasonSmith-kk3tp]

Really appreciate the kids water table in the background at the Results section... Jeff, apparently, is human.

[@martinkent333]

Do you obey traffic laws in town? R U human?

[@lordman65]

Currently learning how to not overwork myself on a long ride and this video is like a godsend thanks guys!

[@martinkent333]

Do you obey traffic laws in town? Do you have time to chat?

[@C_K__]

we need a gear review Jeff. Souke vs rapha and specialized sl7 vs S works sl7. Plus just curious why do you ride and race on your specialized when you still have your S works model. And please post more I can’t get enough of your vids 😁

[@roccozambrifoto]

Yes !!!!

[@tgoods5049]

Agreed; time definitely slows down during the hard part and speeds up during the easy part.

[@444animation]

Music is very loud and you guys are very quiet! hard to watch without changing the volume a lot

[@seanf688]

Absolutely

[@shinsegi8422]

Yup plus the cheering sounds / yaay noises in the background is unwanted and making it hard to watch

[@glich610]

This. Please make sure music and talking are same volume.

[@TitaniumHappy]

The songs in this video make it so much superior, i cant believe it!

[@TristanTaillon]

I started racing bikes seriously this summer with a weekly crit lasting 8 weeks and one road race or additional crit every weekend or so. I barely finished the first crit of the season at the back of the pack, one or two more laps and I would have been dropped. This was also my crit with the high watt average and NP. The last crit of the serie, with a bunch of races and fatigue in the legs, I was able to get really close to challenging the final sprint and this was my crit with the lowest average watt and NP of the season! Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Take a breather, be aware of your surroundings and follow the right wheels!

[@martinkent333]

Do you obey traffic laws? Do you have time to chat?

[@sdmike1141]

Man…I love the sound of grippy tyres in the morning!!

[@ProWeAreSo]

Wow that Felt looks exactly like a Giant TCR

[@MS-bw7yt]

Not really

[@HGZie]

open mold

[@endeavour5316]

Yeah it did to me

[@martinkent333]

Do you obey traffic laws in town?

[@HGZie]

@@martinkent333 Never, traffic laws are for motorists only.

[@boukyakunosenritsu]

This is aerodynamics - with increasing speed, resistance does not increase linearly. Between 200 watts and 400 watts, the difference in speed is greater than between 400 and 600, and so on. Therefore, the greater the difference between the intervals, the slower the average speed will be.

[@martinkent333]

Dude, do you obey traffic laws in town?

[@boukyakunosenritsu]

@@martinkent333 Yep, of course 🙂

[@JibbaJabber]

'Like and Subscribe' - your wingman is on point!!

[@lundenfriberg4216]

Jeff and Nick - You mentioned the final effort (BONUS ROUND), an interesting thought about race-like conditions, was considerably harder than the previous efforts (either fatique or fitness requirements). My understanding is that higher outputs (above threshold) place more strain on your body as your body is producing energy via lactate fermentation (a non-sustainable form of energy production) instead of aerobic respiration run by the mitochondria of your body (a very sustainable form of energy powered by carbs and in a roundabout way, fat). You guys as racers certainly experience this and understand this. However, in addition to the information provided, your Normalized Power (an estimate of your physiological strain) would be a good metric to consider. While keeping the average power the same is OK, I think it would be more beneficial to see the physiological strain your body takes instead (as the structure of the intervals you have used do not have the same physiological toll). Could you comment on your normalized power for each run? I predict that your NP will be higher in the final run (bonus round) than it was in the flat 300, therefore placing a high stress on your body for less speed. Then, we could take a ratio (or another comparitive meaure) of speed to normalized power to get hard data on the actual efficiency of running smooth. Instead of normalized power, I'm sure we can come up with a similar method using "variability index" as that is essentially your normalized power divided by your actual average (and takes into the consideration of a rider's average power as well). I look forward to your response! I love talking about this stuff and have been a huge fan of the channel. I've learned a lot about racing tactics, and look forward to possibly racing for or against Mike's Bikes some day :) Thank you

[@8584zender]

not only is smooth faster but the NP of the 500/100 efforts is significantly higher than 300W. so the metabolic cost at the end of the race is higher.

[@pld468]

what about a hilly terrain? Should you still aim for a constant power output, or modulate it a bit in the climb and descend?

[@gillesbkf4315]

Good question

[@gxexrxmxaxnx]

You should put down more power in the uphill sections.

[@andymitchell2146]

More power... ride the slow parts hard and the fast parts easy. Pushing it on a flat or downhill doesn't buy you as much time as pushing it on a hill or into a headwind.

[@grantzawodniak682]

@@gxexrxmxaxnx Just like in Need for Speed when they say to use nitro on the climbs

[@alexande94]

Since air resistance increases exponentially with speed , it makes more sense to use more power on the climb and go a little easier on the downhill/flat. That way you use less overall energy to penetrate the air.

[@1980jamesm]

Doesnt draft play a big part here, you can hide 0 watts in a pack and keep the speed up. Position over power ;)

[@ΘάνατοςΧορτοφάγος]

Depending on where in the pack, you can ride smoothly or the 800W version though

[@kylehagertybanana]

If you are racing yes

[@martinkent333]

James, do you obey traffic laws in town? Do you have time to chat?

[@yuugiigarashi7343]

I'm from philippines, your channel is super nice💯 your bike is my dream bike but i have a metal bike and i just copying your style in race, i love it❤️💯 thanks for all the tips😎

[@backofenp0mmes493]

An idea for the next video: it would be interesting to know if the same thing applies to a course, which has some climbs in it. Is it faster to applie more power on the climb to maintain the same speed or should you stick to the same power instead?

[@ghettoshampoo]

Better to smash up a climb or into a headwind, and take it easier on the downhill/tailwind. This depends on the duration and intensity of those factors, but that's the general rule I always went by.

[@peterers3]

if your doing a lot of climbing for a longer time and know ur gonna be exhausted. Tone down the power and go for consistency. Consistency is efficiency. And imagine if you still have too much left in the tank you empty it out later. If you drained all your water out onto the grass how is it gonna get back into ur bucket or hose? Its gone it doesnt come back on its own.

[@matt4drummer]

Great question

[@cyclingmilan]

Ideally you want your speed to stay stable. so go use more power on the hard sections of the race, and less on the downhills, flats. There is software to calculate the ideal splits. they can do a video about it, but this is really not a mystery it has all been figured out a long time already.

[@Red-ju4mi]

If your racing with a pack then follow the pack. If your doing individual TT then that would be interesting 🤔 to find out

[@jeffp1377]

This really underscores why track races are so brutal despite typically being so much shorter

[@andrew7taylor]

And that's why track riders are all so massive. Especially the sprinters have to be so huge that it doesn't translate over to the road. The track endurance riders are the sprinters on the road.

[@bodoh_menteri7772]

nice experiment! like people said, consistency is key

[@dickenscider4677]

Subscribed, check, liked, check. Waiting for that free watts download file.

[@LoaforDie]

Those Souke bibs from amazon are top notch. Good value and materials. I Don’t even bother buying the entry level Rapha or Castelli bibs anymore.

[@kingpluto8857]

Bout Time Jeff!!!🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@haydenm.3912]

I think a large reason for this is that drag is not a linear equation. As you double your speed, drag doesn't double - it quadruples. Triple your speed and it's 9 times as much. (Speed multiplier squared) What do you know, my schooling as a pilot and cycling are coming together haha.

[@2552legoboy]

music volume a bit too loud in comparison to how loud the voices are for me.! very interestin video though thank you for the upload.

[@2552legoboy]

just realised everyone is commenting on the volume levels haha.

[@TheMarshal1992]

It is important to understand this and be aware of how much power u can save by sitting in, but makes me wonder how it would work in a race. It would mean not closing gaps at all, so no drafts.

[@benjapolcycling]

I can guess the result before seeing it and it confirm my thought. Put more watt just gain little speed but make you tired much faster. Unless there is a "bunch factor" or hills, the smoothest is the best.

[@DanKolan]

What brand will the team ride now that Specialized has ended their relationship with Mike's Bikes?

[@CycoWarriorx]

They did???

[@kadengolda2373]

@@CycoWarriorx yes, since the guys who own Santa Cruz bought out Mike's bikes

[@ILOVEDEFENDINGTHE1PERCENT]

My guess is Cervelo

[@mstvir]

Well we gonna have a nice video about it, to see Jeff's new bike

[@10flyingdutchman]

It sounds like Pon will let them operate independently. Though, Specialized might get chapped and decide not to sell to Mike's any longer.

[@eliotzbot]

Awesome vid. It would be interesting to take a bunch of strava data and compare periods of riding that have the same average power but a different variability index. I bet you'd see the same trend

[@noahbirdrevolution]

Rockin' the Dale Senior shades. Next video Jeff is gonna wear the shades with the nose cover.

[@torontocycling]

I agree with the general gist of the experiment, but bare in mind that speed is not linearly correlated with power. We can clearly see this in the bunch sprints where you put out +300w and you go faster maybe 0.5 km/h. Secondly, this experiment ignores drafting; although the same principle can be applied without it but in reality, it is sometimes needed to do an 800w for a few seconds to close a gap and get into a draft and that would change the whole dynamics of the race. In Game theory that would be called a new state. Third, If you had a much improved aero bike, maybe a TT or a one of those high-end Track bikes, the increase of power would have been more amenable to speed so as if your baselines have been set higher. Cheers.

[@martinkent333]

Toronto, do you obey traffic laws in town? Toronto cyclists do not. They are big city weasels who love urban terrorism. Frightening the elderly with crappy citizenship and making the streets a freakshow.

[@MarkBernardinis]

I showed a picture to my partner of you during the intro and we both agree you have the Peter Sagan look 😂.

[@arandom.potato]

Can you test the mph difference between a tee shirt + basketball shorts vs cycling clothes. I haven't invested in cycling clothes and wonder what the average speed increase would be

[@johnrodriguez8253]

That's really interesting. Thanks!

[@jacksterpang8199]

Let’s gooo more bike video

[@wbhandy]

An interesting follow up would be to do a hilly course and compare constant watts to constant speed.

[@DNAConfirmed]

Hi - after an out front mount with a under sling camera mount. Saw yours and like it, could you let me know the make and model please?

[@leehchris888]

Does Specialized withdrawing the bikes from Mike's bikes impact the team?

[@MrJhockley]

My local cycle track is very technical. It's much faster if i attack the climbs and go easier on the flats rather than consistent power all the way around.

[@turnerdrywallrestoration8077]

Fascinating 👌🏼

[@ZygZakMcQin]

Thanks for a "science" '-) nice to watch...but more Basic question...what name or producent of your bike carrier is?

[@ArashFallah]

The same is through on the regular rides too, I come across so many riders not pedaling in downhills and then smashing on the uphill sections; even in their training rides.

[@frtzkrz3515]

watch the time trial olympics, (almost) not pedaling in the downhills worked pretty well for roglic.

[@ArashFallah]

@@frtzkrz3515 different course dude, Olympics TT had stretches with 100 meter elevation loss. Also when you are going as fast as you can for a hilly TT, you need to recover in the downhill parts. Which is why Tony Martin and Gana type riders are greatest in the flat TTs, because the produce a consistently high power. That's why I said in training ride. And this video is about flat course too!

[@frtzkrz3515]

@@ArashFallah Yeah true, but even if there are just a few rises, it'd be faster to smash the uphill sections and go with less power in the downhills. Not only for recovery, but also because you gain more speed for your power at lower speeds. On a completly flat course it's clear that consistency is king, but then you won't have downhills anyway.

[@jemilh]

Love the video, cool content ! The volume where all over the place though

[@victordamianovic8450]

It would be really cool if you did the same experience in a circuit with a hill in it and doing the increase power in the climbing part and the decreased power in the descending. And of course a constant power for control

[@baribari600]

Glad to see you still have the felt….

[@vladfromfrance]

At first I thought this was going to be about shaving legs ^^

[@paulgraf5259]

Haha me too

[@TheLogancoats]

still working on that 1 min @500w over here, also what you describes is exactly how a cat 5 crit feels, especially at the back of the field haha

[@wss327]

Rather than watts, wouldn't it be more accurate to do w/kg for each person?

[@AshKetchhum]

Can you give us a summary of Team Mike Bikes? No longer being sponsored by Specialized, over 400 orders cancelled? Thanks Jeff

[@alexnelson9505]

Music volume was way too loud compared to voice.

[@steveouwerkerk7719]

Great video Jeff, if the route is rolling should you not increase power on the ups and decrease on the downs for a faster time? Your example is on the flats

[@bitminerbob6731]

*unlocks the "did half a thing" achievement. :P

[@wolf.himmler]

When, after two years of cycling like a madman, Jeff does intervalls that I reckon, I could barely sustain, too 😍, casually for a video 😅

[@martinkent333]

Do you obey traffic laws in town? Do you have time to chat?

[@erbringas]

Still waiting for the 2k budget race bike video!!

[@DjelQc]

Can't hear anything a normal volume...levels are way off

[@SR-fm1ft]

Before watching: answer-yes.

[@philblack5910]

I wonder if this is similar on dirt/gravel.. Much more challenging not to spike or stay seated.

[@khamronchaiyamani431]

Cool video as always, what is the song starting at 1:36?

[@vybzkartel9695]

Slow is smooth and smooth is fast

[@biglegcatluvr]

Jeff why do you shorten average to ave. instead of avg.? Asking for myself

[@NorCalCycling]

oh i guess ave. is avenue and avg. is average. TIL lol

[@MrSepox]

The bikes they ride are so nice

[@87togabito]

Wouldn’t sitting on the top tube snap it?

[@miquelponssapena4566]

how can i apply this to hilly crits?

[@samvilla6290]

What about for mtb racing? How do you stay more consistent while racing on extremely varied terrain where surging is necessary to stay upright?

[@jasonhendrickson2289]

Simple: Don't don't ride harder than necessary at any given time. A power meter helps. If you're putting in 800 watts on short punchy climbs and then 150w on the flatter sections between climbs because you're blown, it might be faster to do 600 watts on those climbs and 250 watts on the flatter sections. Obviously this will depend on the course, your fitness, etc.

[@Helcc]

Which bike do you prefer?

[@Jeebs45]

Damn, Rapha sponsorship didn't last long

[@martinkent333]

Zane, do you obey traffic laws in town?

[@pedroresende4216]

The result is absolutely expextable. Seems a nice video to sell power meters

[@selleos]

Now that Mike's Bikes has lost its relationship with Specialized will you continue to ride on Specialized bicycles?

[@chrissollie7126]

Turns out, this is actually the secret to interval training.

[@martinkent333]

Chris do you obey traffic laws in town?

[@kylehagertybanana]

time IS a construct after all

[@jediavatar]

300W for 8 minutes, and your HR never got out of the 150s? Ok, John, relax. Remember you are not a racer, and you are not Jeff. Now I feel better. 🤣

[@francoisthomas4930]

What was the variability index of the bonus round? I guess the first 3 rounds all had 1.00 since they were continuous efforts

[@NorCalCycling]

Only the first round had a constant effort. The vi went up through the rounds

[@hetpatel3183]

4:23 you want a hug bro?

[@Ultegra10SPD]

Pottin' up your music for the b-roll too loud. check the levels on next one. Keep up the good work. -U10

[@31.8mm]

dang, just how long is ur inseam guys?

[@BareitherDavid]

Jeff, good video but I’m curious about the normalized power for each effort. The first effort should have a NP of 300 but do all the slower efforts have a NP less than 300? If not what does that say about the NP calculation?

[@benjapolcycling]

Normalized will be almost always higher than raw average watt from my training ride so opposite of your idea above, but to calculate this exactly i think you need computer. I used to hear winner should have the least normalized power (that's means more efficient effort at the same speed).

[@BareitherDavid]

@@benjapolcycling Riding outside provides you with an almost constant change in resistance, due to changes in terrain and weather. Normalized power (NP) is an advanced metric that accounts for these changes, which gives you a more realistic representation of the physiological cost of the ride. NP gives you an estimate of the power you could’ve sustained for the same physiological cost for a given workout, if your power output had been absolutely smooth rather than jumpy. By the definition above I’d believe the slower times would have to have a lower NP. If the variable power efforts had a higher NP which represents what power you could rode at a steady effort why wouldn’t they result in faster times?

[@benjapolcycling]

@@BareitherDavid in real world: how good you can take advantage of staying in the group, how good you can corner , descend and maintain climbing momemtum without losing precious speed. That is my point. Its not riding on trainer.... you use least amount of power with the same result.

[@BareitherDavid]

@@benjapolcycling yes I agree but I am referencing this test where he rode solo, rode the same road, and rode so that he averaged 300 w for each test. Would just like to see how NP compared compared to AP since we all know average power is a function of time not speed.

[@benjapolcycling]

@@BareitherDavid i think i found simple formula to calculate it (with constant power no variations on each interval ) or actually i can put this scenario to zwift workout and let it calculate tss (hence i can convert it back to NP knowing the time on each interval) again i still believe given AP, less NP is more effective and faster (reality wind, descend, curve, terrain still at play) will reply you when i got my number

[@DanielHernandezBC]

Music is way too loud... I have to keep changing the volume of the vid. Just something to keep in mind for the next editing session 👍

[@nathancouse3596]

By any chance what size tarmac is that and how tall are you?

[@NorCalCycling]

6ft 56cm but i'm all leg, so i have a tall seatpost

[@nathancouse3596]

@@NorCalCycling okay! I was just generally curious bc you saddle height is so tall. I ride a 54 sl7 2020 model im around 5'8 pushing 5'9 and was thinking it may be to small. But seeing yours im not so concerned anymore lol !

[@endeavour5316]

So Jeff here's an unusual question, how do you find the souke cycling kit?

[@kenmei18]

the Alviso RV is right where I flatted 6mo ago :(

[@robp3431]

I'm surprised the results are so close. I figured steady 300w would be even faster than the other efforts. That said 300w = 24 mph is really good. Me 300w = 21 mph, though on gravel set up.

[@martinkent333]

Rob, do you obey traffic laws? Do you have time to chat?

[@krYrrr]

ahhh levels are messed up. music is too loud and I can't hear you talking

[@karstenmeinders4844]

So it basically means: ride the the crit like a TT race?

[@derekfreeman9359]

Would the constant low wattage pedaling also be active recovery?

[@martinkent333]

Derek, do you obey traffic laws in town?

[@derekfreeman9359]

@@martinkent333 I do follow all traffics laws, why do you ask?

[@isaiahmaricodilla8621]

what wasnt smooth was the volumes of the music and your dialogue 😓😓was reaching for my volume knob a couple of times during this vid haha

[@rsmiii]

Re: both Round 1s: Vegan Cyclist called, he wants his soundtrack back.

[@TheMASDrummer]

Did I imagine it or did I hear Jeff saying he trains 8h weeks most of the time?

[@NorCalCycling]

ya between 8-12 average is probably like 10

[@TheMASDrummer]

@@NorCalCycling how much of that in % terms is at or above threshold?

[@NorCalCycling]

@@TheMASDrummer idk maybe an hour, training is lot more complicated than that though. 100% FTP is totally different than 130% FTP, for example.

[@TheMASDrummer]

@@NorCalCycling thanks for replying, legend.

[@enotracoon9244]

Nice jersey , witch brand it is ?

[@Mextorf39]

They look like La Passione. I know Nick's is. Jeff's looks like one of their super lightweight jerseys.

[@Guillaume_hw818dn1]

Now can you do something similar, but with a hilly terrain?

[@6SpeedTA95]

300 watts gets you 25mph?? Unreal. I'm 6'6 and 190lbs and 300 watts gets me about 22mph. I'm not fat, so I guess its that I'm not very aero at 6'6? I'm jealous.

[@bobbymooreok]

Nick’s funny 😆

[@JoelSundaram]

Music is too loud compared to the talking

[@Nick-wi5ot]

Enjoyed the video.. but the sound is off. The music is really loud and the talking is really soft