How to Build High Performance Walls for Homes, LEED - PH - ZNE - Design, Insulation - EcoHome Guides

[@Polyester_Avalanche]

Being able to see the cross section of the entire wall (except siding) along with the explanation, is helpful.

[@mijalic1]

Great presentation. Thank you for the time and effort you took to make this video and share it with us. Greetings from Croatia.

[@bengt_axle]

One thing that is hardly ever mentioned is that passive and low energy homes in extreme climates reduce their carbon emissions for heating and cooling. Yes, they do require more materials (more emissions) but once they are installed they stay in place, possibly for 100 years. The gains we make from slowing down climate change now, matter, but are not accounted for in current cost/benefit analysis.

[@wally6193]

How about the windows and door jams, show us details of the extensions.

[@barbaraharrison6930]

So there's a fastener every six inches that goes through strapping, through the first layer of insulation and into the stud? Then the second set of fasteners goes(every six inches) through the some strapping, through the insulation and only into the strapping over the first layer?

[@Hedgehodge-]

How is this done around windows and outside electrical ? I need to hire you to oversee my 1925 home on a hill (wind cuts through it ) for our family of 4!

[@RS-ei3yt]

Can you construct a passive house using light grade steel as opposed to wood frame. Please could you point me to the relevant information sheets for insulation etc. and how I would eliminate thermal bridging. Look forward to your comments. Thank you.

[@GabrielTrif]

You keep looking. I have never heard back from these guys, no matter what channel I used to reach out to them.

[@kingduck3192]

How can you do double strapping like that when rockwool says you need 1.5” of penetration into wood for it to hold

[@BOARDOM12]

Did you require any engineering input/signoff on the strapping design/attachment for siding calculations over the thick foam? I know the BSC guys had done some research on it, but wasn't sure if it was an accepted practice in ON/QC yet.

[@TheEcoHomeNetwork]

+John O'Brien Our engineer was good with it, what you can't really see is that the siding insulation sits on the slab perimeter insulation, which is sitting right on the stone at the base of the slab. So it isn't suspended. I've had a few people ask 'but what if you want to hang something on the side of the house?' My answer is don't hang something on the side of your house! When you mention Building Science Corp, I actually spoke to Joe Lstiburek a couple of years ago about this very topic, his seems to think we way over fortify cladding, if you check out our siding video there is a diagram in there about leaving air spaces at corners, inspired by him. he also recommends simply using sill gasket for an air space, super fast and easy. So no, not worried about it sagging, and don't like the idea of hanging canoes, ladders or anything really on the side of houses. here's the siding video. cheers, Mike www.ecohome.net/guide/install-siding

[@RogerWilsonTodd]

What climate zones is this particular wall assembly good for? (and which is it not for?)

[@miguelrosario6924]

*I think he mentioned Canada, so I'm assuming up north where it gets below freezing during the winter.

[@mjvick]

How are the doors and windows installed ?

[@paulsimon3086]

Just wondering how all this has worked out, five years later

[@TheEcoHomeNetwork]

Works very well - the total energy bills without Solar PV are averaging out at around $350 USD

[@Hedgehodge-]

@@TheEcoHomeNetwork 350 USD a YEAR in energy cost? Oil heat here, ugh!

[@joniboulware1436]

I just can't quite get past the thickness of that wall. It must be 16 or 17 inches.

[@francislanefrancislane701]

Hi! Would that work in a ship container house as Well?

[@barbaraprotiva2127]

What does it look like ongrade...on the slab?

[@nhannguyen-sr9vh]

8.09 I find it hard to believe that longer screws would of reduced the r value by 30-40%. Lets say you have one screw for every 2 square feet of wall. which is 0.0054% of the surface area. 1/8x1/8 divided by 288 sq inches.

[@alexarruda3747]

30% is the framing xD

[@matthewcole1188]

It has to do with the way R-Values and heat flow work. The heat flow is going to be proportional to the temperature difference divided by the R-Value. The R-Value of steel is about 0.0031 per inch so a 6-inch nail might have an R-value of 0.0186. Doing some quick math shows that our hypothetical nail will have over 2,526 times more heat flow than a wall with an R-Value of 47 [1]. Since we are dividing by our R-Value, the heat-flow grows exponentially as our R-Value approaches zero. In practice, it wouldn't be that extreme because air is not a perfect heat conductor and it would provide some insulation above that value. However, a small amount of really low R-Value will dramatically affect the overall R-Value more than you might expect. [1] Assuming one-degree difference in temperature: Nail: 1/0.0186 = 53.7 watts per square meter per degree of temperature difference VS Insulation: 1/47 = 0.0212 watts per square meter per degree of temperature difference. This shows that there is 2526 times more heat flow through nail per unit of area.

[@benspragge33]

@@matthewcole1188 @Matthew Cole looks like someone needs to come up with wood screws 🤣🤣 But really, maybe some composit or ceramic coated fasteners. But before we get carried away, what's the 80/20% of this. You say it's 2500 times more conductive. Over a 6" pattern on a 10 meter wall, what would be the reduction in R value? I would think, because they have two layers they need twice as many screws.. and at each section there still is a 2500x conductivity. I would think that if you had 1 layer with half the amount of screws it would equal the same conductivity as twice the amount of screws in a split layer/pattern like in the video...?

[@charlesseguin7177]

With a vapour barrier/reductive paint, what is the suggested method for when a homeowner wants to screw something into a wall? I typically use anchors on almost everything in my home, but if the paint is the barrier, is the tight fit of the screw against plastic anchor against gypsum enough to reduce/prevent air movement/humidity movement?

[@leewatt1425]

One question. How would this exterior insulation hold hardy board for siding or woul there need to be more supports to the stripping

[@roberthaverlock8605]

its pretty strong...uses a 8 in. screw that's cross-threaded in two directions...hardy board, most likely (and I'll stand corrected) hardy board heats up pretty good in west and southern directions causing heat build up, and most likely energy issues...plus not always installed correctly, needs sealing on all cuts and seams...water will penetrate!

[@BuildFriendly]

So do building code inspectors allow this to be built without the vapor barrier? I believe the airtight drywall technique allows for no poly when using VR paints, but requires caulking gyprock edges. Do you still have to use VB boxes on outside walls for electrical fixtures?

[@briand.wright4333]

Has this technique been approved by NBC in Canada? I think the vapour barrier paint is interesting.... but seems to me leaves place for moisture to slowly build up "in" the gyproc... especially during summer when "humidity" is coming from the outside meeting a cooler/colder airconditioned surface. Also is this mostly being done in new construction. I have a client who wants to do this on his existing home. It looks to me this would totally mess up his soffit space and a roofer would have to do something first to make sure attic breathes properly.

[@LavenderLori406]

What's the best way to cut hemp batting insulation? Scissors aren't cutting it.

[@fredericarsenault6433]

Skill saw or table saw ;)

[@lucphinney]

Why the gap between drywall and studs? US codes wouldn't let you run electrical there; seems like more time and materials.

[@intothewildnow]

What thickness OSB are you using on your studs? 1/2" 3/4"?

[@Hunspikey75]

No-one talks about sound insulation. Especially low frequency noise like airplane or smashed car door on the street next door. How do you seal those high energy noisewaves which tend to resonate the OSB board (or the drywall inside)?

[@Hunspikey75]

@@gofish5175 Thank you for the detailed answer. Can you give me some advice how could I improve low freq insulation of my house - wall structure from inside to outside: 2 x 12.5mm drywall, vapor stop layer, 150 mm metal studs filled with rockwool hd stonewool, 18mm OSB, 250mm graphite loaded EPS, silicone top plaster. The house is ultra quiet except the lowest frequencies. Basically it acts like a low pass filter.

[@Hunspikey75]

@@gofish5175 I'm from Hungary - Europe, which is not considered a cold country but i wanted a zero energy house so the goal was to keep primary energy needs under 10kwh/year/square meter. Which we have achieved. So with a 15kw solar system the house requires zero energy from the grid - pls note at Hungary we got the annual balance payment option so one does not need to be all time energy surplus producer but it is good enough to have a positive balance throughout the year combined. The heat insulation is so good that when we leave the house for winter holidays it cools 1C / every two days from 24C if its cloudy and around 0C degrees outside (hvac turned off). I try to search your recommended items maybe I can incorporate them.

[@victorianlover3328]

I'm a woman (not a builder) in Virginia. I see them around here putting a wrap on the outside of the house, then the vinyl siding or bricks. Is that the same thing you're talking about putting on the inside of the house? Seems it would be better on the outside, stop it before it gets in.

[@myhandletre3]

Wouldn’t be better to build the walls with with Zip-R 6 (1 inch) foam to stop thermal bridging then spray closed cell foam 3 to 4 inches maximum thickness? That’s it.

[@Mrcool12684]

closed cell is for builders that ran out of ideas and cant actually fix a bad job. Its literally the last resort. Its not a good product and is super unhealthy

[@simond.8052]

Is it suitable to use two layers of Delta-Vent S instead of Delta-Vent SA as first layer?

[@ThanksAgain]

With poly iso exterior insulation, a Vapor barrier could cause mold in cold zones. Air barrier is vitally important. It probably conserves more energy than the R value of insulation. And there are liquid elastmeric air barriers that are vapor permeable. Is polyiso outside, Moisture wicks into the house, which means you do not want a vapor barrier or any clothes sell insulation. Everything needs to be open cell so the moisture can wick and dry into the house.

[@romangargulak4171]

Any concern with horizontal strapping between two sections of insulation not be able to dry if water gets there?

[@TheEcoHomeNetwork]

+Roman Gargulak No concern at all. Water really can't get there, but if it somehow it did, this is the part we love about Roxul stone wool - water runs right through it so there would be no problem. The exterior membranes are moisture permeable as well, so it has excellent drying capabilities. Good question though, moisture trapped in wall assemblies is the biggest reason they fail. Regards, Mike

[@Peter-nu6ix]

@ike fun By golly Ike, your responses, both to Roman's question, which I did not see as an attack, and to other people's observations are very cutting, even to the point of being extremely unpleasant.

[@D.A.T.GRINGO]

cool..but what if i dont use drywall?..pine planking or something

[@briand.wright4333]

Personally I would paint it really well (2 solid coats at least) with that vapour barrier paint..... there is a chance humidity can build from backside. If there is no vapour barrier until it hits the inside surface of your finished wall.... humidity can build up on the other side.

[@j-forceyizzle9989]

where did you apply the vapor barrier latex? Was it on the inside side of the sheathing, inside side of the studs?

[@Mreynolds.ecohome]

It was the primer on the drywall.

[@roberthaverlock8605]

See "Prosoco" ...

[@victorianlover3328]

That's what I get for not listening to the entire video. But, where I live is zone 6b, which I think is "cold". I used to live on the coast zone 7 and humid.

[@D.A.T.GRINGO]

good theory, but also a ggrea home for mice. in the rural settings, mice chew in and destroy insulation inside the walls. they make their homes in the chewed up insulation, and poo all through it as well. its the biggest issue for how toxic your home will be after 20 years. we need to address this issue along with good theories like the one presented here. thx for the video

[@RoguePC4U]

This is a non-issue with the Rockwool mineral insulation used here. It's spun from basalt (ie. lava rock) and recycled waste slag materials. Mice and insects are not attracted to it, nor will they burrow into it - as it has no organic properties. Plus, here in 2024, they also put in an aluminum bug-screen (top and bottom).

[@wally6193]

having great walls is one thing but what about your doors, what entry doors are you using. A bad door can put an end to those great walls when it comes to overall energy usage, right.

[@adamkebede6015]

So thick. But great work.

[@ericbarritt304]

Me thinks this type of wall assembly works in 2 ways. It stops heat from the outside of the building from penetrating the wall in the summer. It stops heat from the inside of the building from penetrating the wall in the winter. How did you determine the thickness of your insulation on the outside?

[@andrewsmyrek7161]

Is that a metric R47?

[@NoRoads2AllRoads]

No. American. It's about 9.xx in RSI Value

[@davidglennie1312]

@@NoRoads2AllRoads Actually it's RSI x 5.678 to get I-P R-value

[@flinch622]

As I understand it, the short version is this: make your vapor barrier 10 to 20 perms so it can act as a brake without being a complete moisture trap.

[@brittanynicolemeyer8843]

Is the vapor retarding paint environmentally-friendly and healthy for occupants? What is it made of, and does it offgas?

[@Lilmiket1000]

this is crazy. if this energy thing and thermal bridging is such an issue for energy savings then aren't we building with the wrong materials. shouldn't we just replace all the wood with foot thick rigid foam walls. structural foam or in other words sips panel.

[@inomanoms9988]

It is an amusing idea, and I'm pretty sure some think tank has brainstormed it. The reality is that those properties which make insulation great at insulating also make them bad as structural members. Sure, rigid foam is compression resistant but it is also dangerously flammable and air tight. The indoor climate would be a nightmare. Also, in terms of environmental "friendliness", given the primary energy required to produce insulation and the average life span of a house, insulation has a very poor life cycle. At least wood is a renewable resource, if managed responsibly.

[@Mreynolds.ecohome]

Ike - the house operates for $500 a year for all heating and electrical consumption. A lot of people pay that every month, so the added money you pay on a building mortgage comes out of your utility bills. Here is a great example of that, a builder who calculated a net savings every month by having a super-insulated house compared to a home built to code - www.ecohome.net/news/latest/new-brunswick-s-energy-efficient-home

[@roberthaverlock8605]

NO!, why surround yourself with oil, chemical foam and plastic? Once water gets in, and it will...you'll never know where its coming from, can you say mold, etc..I'm not sold on sips until they can make it with better products, plywood, mag oxide board, ceramic cement for insulation or mineral wool?

[@MrMutable]

SIP panels are flawed because they don't provide the necessary air cavity for proper drainage. Moisture eventually finds its way in and has nowhere to go via drainage/air drying.

[@roberthaverlock8605]

Its really quite easy,...I build mock-ups all the time, so if you can, get off the Foam wagon...when a house leaks with foam you may not be able for weeks or months find where it started from, not to mention its a firemen's nightmare when fighting the toxics...(they have to take showers with their clothes on after each fire) including all foam and added toxics coming from inside the homes...

[@wortelskwortel]

How would you adapt this setup to improve on the R-value of ICF walls, and how would that influence the various air / vapour / etc barriers?

[@TheEcoHomeNetwork]

The easiest and surest way to improve the R-value of ICF walls (and to shift the Thermal Mass of the concrete to the conditioned space) that we've seen is this system from Legalett that is Passive House certified: www.ecohome.net/products/1069/slab-on-grade-insulated-prefab-form-systems-radiant-heated-legalett-canada-thermalwall-ph-insulated-rigid-foam-wall-panels-with-fastening-system-for-passive-house-or-zero-net-energy-construction-or-renovation-by-legalett/

[@Lawiah0]

Oh My!

[@johnholmes526]

I can never tell which side has the internal sheet rock attached to it. 🤔

[@Mikej1592]

what would you do for an old house adding 8 inches plus strapping to the exterior of a house suddenly all your doors and windows are sunk into the sides of your walls. I am not sure that is such a great look aesthetically.

[@bobt9948]

While that is a good question, and you are probably right about the aesthetics, this wall is best suited for new construction. However if an existing home was to be retrofitted with insulation on the outside, measures can be taken to correct the aesthetics. This wall is actually very impressive with how much has been considered.

[@Cpt_Guirk]

Add storm windows and doors flush with the exterior.

[@waynemorgan1577]

I think a double window system would be good.. One interior window and then an exterior window... doubling the r-value of the windows...

[@noodle3768]

The walls are r40, But the big windows have r2.5. I doubt the extra cost will pay off.

[@spyrosdourakis]

So if Im doing a home renovation project with existing foundations and I want to add 4 or 8 " of insulation on the outside whats the best way to hold up the insulation? Thanks

[@inomanoms9988]

Batten and counter-batten the outside wall. The counter battens take your second layer of insulation in horizontal stripes. The battens provides ventilation behind the cladding. I might be expressing this wrong with my english. Here is an image: www.fassaden-dach.de/fileadmin/images/Unterkonstrukt/holzunterkonstruktioneinfach-2.jpg , with a brick wall, but the principle is the same. Such a renovation is going to be alot of work. Both the depth of you exterior door jambs and the soffiting will change.

[@roberthaverlock8605]

IPex products, home depot has screws as well...? See: www.phnw.org/assets/Conference2017/presentations/high%20r%20value%20-%20ricketts.pdf Pages 10 & higher

[@ictrains9731]

Use structural insulated panels from Preimersips.com or R Control. You would not have to do a build out. A 6 1/2" wall preformed at R 29

[@tarawiselove]

What did you end up doing?

[@Danirio96]

-30C to 30C, where is this house located? Bipolar hell?

[@TheEcoHomeNetwork]

Quebec... Pretty much !

[@shaun4772]

And most of Canada.

[@cameronhudspeth5349]

Using the paint as a vapor barrier isn't a great idea because it's so likely to be damaged. Once it's damaged then it's no good and would have to be continuously maintained.

[@TheEcoHomeNetwork]

Hey Cameron, you're probably thinking that it is acting as an air barrier as well, but it isn't. The air barrier in this wall assembly is the exterior membrane. The vapour retarder primer is not tasked with stopping air leakage, its role is to stop moisture from diffusing through the wall, so if you put a nail hole in it for example by hanging a picture, or made a scratch in it, that would be of absolutely no consequence. It's easy to jump to that conclusion, since with most houses the vapour barrier and air barrier are a combine product, 6 mil polyethylene, in which case you do need to be extremely cautious not to damage it. Regards.

[@pl2604]

How do you find someone knowledgeable who can calculate and tell you this is okay for your house and then draw a plan and install it? You can’t just engineer your house yourself based on KZbin videos

[@gsabic]

this wall has lots of insulation but has no thermal mass.

[@barryon8706]

I wonder if anybody's tried applying this to a steel building. I'd think it might help with internal condensation.

[@flinch622]

Basically, yes: it's called a full wrap. Insulating on the outside is the only way to effectively combat thermal bridging for steel framing [common to most commercial applications these days]. Materials may differ, but the concept is good - and code in many places. Steel framing is so good at thermal bridging, you really want it inside the conditioned space. I... would avoid houses steel framed in the 90's except they have documentation of wall construction details, as built. Some were built well, some not, as code was catching up with problems of new materials/methods.

[@barryon8706]

@@flinch622 Thanks, much appreciated.

[@AgentZ3R0.]

I cant agree with this wall type. as a GC, I understand the need for exterior insulation, however this is all great in theroy, but it costs much more in labour, and materials, and most importantly, time. i think just a proper tyvek, and one layer of roxul comfort board with 3/4 rain screen would be sufficient. but hey, maybe im just old school. its just that its much better in theory than practice.

[@polarunion]

PeteBillings PeteBillings Exactly. Old school won't work when energy costs start picking up 10%/yr as projected for the next ten years. With a wall system like this you can save on operational costs for the lifetime of the home. Further, you can reduce mechanical systems. Should really consider taking a course in passive house especially if you're a GC.

[@AgentZ3R0.]

lol. Please don't patronize me by saying I should take a course in passive home. I guess I didn't explain the wall type I was referring to enough for you. I get a minimim of R40 with the walls I build, but they're simpler, stronger, and much less maintenance than this design, this double layer of exterior insulation will fall/collapse in 10 to 15 years in at least one section. Redoing siding , stucco etc... is not ideal 10 years after building a new home. If you were a GC, you would know, you cant build something you do not have complete confidence in. The vapour retarder paint is another idea Im not into. what kind of upkeep does it require? will i really last 20+ years? As responsible contractors we build each home as if they're ours. I'm not arguing an eco friendly wall, I just don't agree with this wall design at all. Looking at this design I can't be confident in securing the strapping or any type of siding onto this. Its easy to design without knowing the ins and out's of the actual construction. Like I said, I'm all for building passive homes, but I don't think going with greater and greater EXTERIOR insulation is the best way to go about it. I would much prefer a double 2x6 or 2x8 wall with a 3/4" air gap between with 2" of roxul comfort bat for exterior OR 2" ridgid foam exterior that what this guy has come up with.

[@Mreynolds.ecohome]

Pete Billings - There are lots of ways to build a wall, this was an attempt, we as well found it to be labour intensive and would not do it exactly like this again. If you have a better idea, pop it up on youtube for the world to see - and shred :)

[@garrimic3]

Theory is nothing without doing actual testing. Also roxul insulation has such minimal degradation it’s basically a lifetime insulating product. Which means as long as the house last the insulation will as well.

[@roberthaverlock8605]

In my State of Washington, Tyvek doesn't work! Never has...now their commercial is much better? Why, 1. nobody tapes the tyvek seams...2. The problem with tyvek and cedar is well documented.. the tannic acid in cedar, (oak and black walnut to name two other woods) attacks the chemicals that make tyvek...So, all the other stuff is not theory, its science...Passive house, sustainable building techniques have been been proving to work and save 25-30% in future energy bills...

[@colinbateman8233]

I’d like to know what your basic answer for adding your 8 inches of rock wall on the exterior how are you fasting that and making a salad what are you putting on siding hardy board Stucco what are you doing over top of this and how would this work in the Desert

[@claudepoulin8558]

R47 the guy is standing in front of a wall of windows? With 2’ wall in between. Sorry.

[@anthonycraig274]

People 10 years in the future never thinks, I wish I had less insulation.

[@johnwhite2576]

This is insane why have r47 on walls when the best you can get on windows -25% of surface is what r9 at best ???!!

[@MrBiron1]

You can get r20 windows litezone....

[@ssmith2019]

I'm looking at a 16+ inch thick wall . . . OVERKILL AND NOT PRACTICLE ! ! !

[@nickgermanic8505]

help me understand something really basic... Fact #1 - In the US, most homes in the last 40-60 years have been 2 x 4.... It has now moved on to 2 x 6, just recently. Fact # 2 - INSIDE, for most homes in the 50-50 years... INSULATION has been fiberglass. If interior vapor has been such a big issue, by now, half of more of the buildings built back in the days would have walls crambling due to vapor... 2 x 4s would have rotten by now... The fact remains this is NOT the case. So the million dollar question: if we 2 x 4s being used for 40-50 years and now we are moving to an even wider standard (2x6) why would we have to worry so much about vapor inside the walls? I think the industry is sending FEAR into people's mind so they can sell more products but come on... I don't think is such a serious problem...

[@jesseyoung9654]

Because up until recently, houses have been ridiculously leaky, with airflow all over the place. As houses become tighter and insulation requirements increase, moisture becomes a bigger issue. Also keep in mind that the old houses still around are, well, the houses that are still around. You don't see the ones that have been demolished or substantially rebuilt due to rot or mould.

[@Bart-dg6qv]

Don't forget that back then 2x4 was 2x4. Now it's 1.5x3.5. Soon 2x6 will shrink to old 2x4 dimension.

[@edtoll9979]

Wow I have not read such an inaccurate statement like this in a long time.

[@jacobecorder]

The cost of mineral wool is just dumb. It does not pay for its self compared to xps...I'm trying to justify it but in Minnesota, with all the other pieces needed and cant. delta vent sa(good luck finding it to buy) I can't even find mineral anywhere to buy. Science is great, but you are suggesting using materials that cannot be found. Sure they exist in catalogs but the average home owner cannot buy it. Same crap with basement wall waterproofing. I had no choice but to use Menards membranes because I gave up looking. I dig it out by hand, not fun....,30' Clay x 7' deep. X 2' wide. Lost 20 lb so that was good. Basically, if it's not available, stop pushing it on the averages person. Find something we can actually get.

[@Larimerst]

super expensive wall assembly

[@TheEcoHomeNetwork]

This test-home was built at an equivalent cost to a local code-built home, which was the point. As an alternative construction and even better performance, take a look at the next one we did www.ecohome.net/guides/3549/zero-carbon-homes-s1600-prefab-eco-home-gets-close/

[@susanjewel7561]

why not just build with 2" by 12" traditional lumber, it will allow you add extra insulation, and have a better R-Value.

[@lunatik9696]

you lose the air gap and keep a thermal bridge

[@lunatik9696]

also 2x4s, even 2 of them are a LOT less expensive than 2x12s

[@duncanklassen5022]

A double 2x4 staggered stud wall is better R value with less cost and no thermal bridging. Still has a higher cost than a standard wall and eats up interior square footage. Exterior insulation leaves more interior living space.

[@Mreynolds.ecohome]

Susan - There are always other ways to do stuff and each with their own benefits and drawbacks. The thermal bridging would be reduced with a 2x12 but it would still be there, and that would result in a lower R value. We like the seamless blanket of insulation on the exterior. Regards.

[@roberthaverlock8605]

Or, 2x8 and using Agapan (spelling) or Gutex as rainscreen?

[@dianacouturier4823]

Nothing eco about this, Not economical and Not Eco friendly. Try The Green Homes Institute.

[@roberthaverlock8605]

Why not Eco?

[@Duc13Thai]

Found this video is useless.. dude didn't explain actual material.. didn't even touch the insulation.. are those 2 4" insulation hard or soft.. never seen outside install this way