How To Build "The World's Best Speakers" - Are Flat Panel Speakers Really Any Good?

[@AmplifyDIY]

Follow-up video is here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnSbYmerhs-fl6c

[@anthonyharding4852]

The best test of this audio would be outdoors to eliminate the acoustic value of the garage

[@readhistory2023]

I saw a these at DoD research facility back in 1980. The engineer used expanded polystyrene foam and the sound wasn't that great. You explained why his sounded so bad. He hung them on the wall vs susended them and his mounting points were on the upper corners. The kind of foam he used probably had a impact too.

[@northwiebesick7136]

@AmplifyDIY I've used those kind of speakers 15 years or more ago, except back then when you bought the 2 speaker set, at if I remember correctly, something like 6x12 in size, they used a stiff cardboard or what looked like cardboard anyway... Another couple of differences were the fact that it somehow made sound by using something like a piezoelectric speaker, such as you find in a talking birthday card, and not an exciter, and also, they weren't hanging off the wall, they were in a plastic shell so they "looked" like a "thin" desktop speaker... Not trying to throw shade on your video, it's just something that I thought you might find interesting

[@Wbroach24]

A guy sure does like that hat 😁

[@AmplifyDIY]

@@Wbroach24 Well, I'll be dipped!

[@TheNightstalker80]

I built a pair of these about a year ago, you will need a good amp to drive these but they (can) sound ridiculously good for what they are. After building (or let's better say, slapping them together) I ended up sitting in my basement and listening to all kinds of music for hours because I was so amazed of the sound.

[@AmplifyDIY]

Hearing is believing. I was absolutely stunned by how good they are.

[@NEMOZAC]

i made concrete pipe speakers 8 inch round 4 foot long it was a 8 foot long pipe cut inb half with a 8 inch bass in the top full freq in the bottom you can paint them the colour of your room and the sound is like this put them in the corner of a rectangler room and the sound travells the floor and ceiling reflects of the back wall and if you are in the middle of the room its surround sound with 2 speakers whereever you are in the room the sound is around you and is strongest dead centre and they are heavy dont vibrate its amazing the loud sound behind and level with your ears its like being on the stage with 2 speakers

[@jimgardner5129]

Nice.

[@jonathanbailie]

It's always the "for what they are" part of this discussion that gets me. How do they sound compared to something like a decent set of bookshelf speakers? Is there any comparison there? I'd love to give these a shot, just to have a cool conversation piece, but am actually concerned about sound quality.

[@ohbogey]

Lol that's what I'm thinking! I don't think I'd be going anywhere for a few hours. Just sitting next to my self built speakers and enjoying my favorite tunes as if it was the first time hearing them!

[@saimnaeem9]

Just a heads up for anyone doing this. I just completed them, but did some more research on home made DML (Flat panels). The audio quality increases IMMENSELY if you coat the front and back of both panels with 2 layers of a 1:1 Wood Glue and Water mixture after sanding. I tested them before and after, and the coating adds a lot more low end, and overall makes the speakers sound significantly better. I also found it important to hang the speaker wires coming off the panel away from the panel. You can bend the attachment point with pliers, its just important the wires don't touch the panel too much. I'd also recommend tinkering with your eq settings. I found a round curve downwards shape worked best (Lets say 1 cm downward for the lowest end 60 to 150hz, 0.8 cm for 150 to 400 hz, 0.3 cm for 400 to 1 khz, 0.1 for 1 to 2.4 khz and 0.4 upwards for 2.4 to 15 khz)

[@Jalahr77]

Curious as to if putting a couple layers of paint on the panels would affect them the same as the glue mixture.

[@saimnaeem9]

@@Jalahr77 No, but you can include paint. As long as you keep the 1:1 ratio of water and glue (maybe with some extra glue) you can add certain pigments. The only thing is, since you're not supposed to add the mixture to the edges, you may have to to make the whole thing look even. If you do do it, make sure you only do one light layer on the edges. The big thing is hardness vs weight. The Foam panels work so well because of their light weight. By removing the melted surface and adding the glue mixture, it creates a hard but still lightweight surface. This has a whole bunch of complex interactions due to the reverb that leads to the amazing sound, but all you need to know is it sounds great.

[@Jalahr77]

@@saimnaeem9 I'm assuming the glue works well because you're adding a bit of rigidity to the panels? So, instead of a paint, maybe try a varnish, or even a couple of light coats of polyurethane. Would be interesting to see how different coatings would affect the sound.

[@mhgscrubadub9917]

This was just the comment I was looking for. Im building a pair right now and anything I can find on making these better is gold.

[@luminousfractal420]

It would bind the surface fibers, but wood glue is somewhat elastic, maybe do it with a rigid epoxy, although that would add weight.

[@TheDudeAbides-247]

Great video. I fell down this rabbit hole a few years ago just for fun. Bought about 8 different exciters and a bunch of materials, from pink insulation sheets, white styrofoam sheets, a ceiling tile, and a few items from a thrift shop, such as a large thin plate and a pane of glass. I even tested with a cardboard pizza box, which sounded better than expected. I also put one exciter on the back of a guitar and one on the back of a full sized upright bass. These two tests turned out better than everything else. No surprise, as they are acoustically tunes enclosures designed to produce food sound. In every test, the main thing lacking was bass. Adding a subwoofer would be the key to creating a system that delivers good sound for all types of music.

[@theamazingmikelee9857]

Woah! A couple of acoustic guitars instead of speakers would be really cool.

[@AmplifyDIY]

Based on all the feedback and comments I've received on this project, I'm planning a follow-up video where I'll test the following: 1) Mount the exciters on posts so that the exciters move less, and compare to the hanging system shown in this video. 2) Compare these panels to a good set of bookshelf speakers. 3) Add a subwoofer. 4) Try painting or possibly fabric-wrapping the panels, and compare with non-painted. What else do you want to see me try?

[@nsmith473]

Different sizes of panels. Also, play pink noise through them and examine the response curve (there are many apps that use your phone to do this somewhat decently)

[@pizzahut1892]

Can you hang it in your car and drive around, lol

[@nsell]

Do a two-panel per channel setup by running high-pass/low-pass filters in addition to mounting the exciters for better clarity. Play around with separating the waveform coming from the front and the back of the speaker - speakers can cancel out their own sound by not separating the waveform between the front of the speaker and the back... so while it may sound good, you may get much better performance with some sort of box.

[@soykike1991]

@AmplifyDIY Hello! I want to do some projects with those exciters, only problem I can´t find foamular in my country any other material like compressed styrofoam can work?

[@ResonantBytes]

Increasing the mass of the exciters could help with the low end even more than bigger panels. :)

[@ericgillespie2812]

Instantaly liked because you gave credit to techingredients. I love it when people put claims to the test. Subbed

[@AmplifyDIY]

Thank you!

[@mmx2323]

You so damn right

[@pacalvotan3380]

I ordered (and have received) the parts and found that our local hardware store stopped carrying the pink Stryofoam insulation panels. However, their new supplier offers black Styrofoam panels and they assured me that these were just as good (although I didn't tell them I was building speakers either LOL). I opted to try the 1" x 24" x 96 " panel cut into two equal halves and found that these speakers (although not studio quality) are perfect for sitting outside around our fire pit in the summer. They work really well, and the sound is above average...much better than those little outdoor bookshelf speakers one usually sees for sale at 4 times the price.

[@AmplifyDIY]

Awesome, Pacal!

[@DanHoke]

I really appreciated this counter-point. Anyone can claim good sound on a youtube video. This is our version of peer review. Thank you for taking the time to do it.

[@squirming_squirrels]

Still… measurements or it didn’t happen. I’m pretty skeptical still.

[@soundssimple1]

I built a set of these with sheet balsa wood, roughly 90cm x 40cm with the Dayton Audio exciters placed 2/5ths in and 2/5th up from the the bottom corner ( mirrored pair ). The result is very good, good treble, good mids but with light bass. Good enough for a small room / study / bedroom for casual listening. The bass is light but responds better the farther out from the wall you suspend them.They have to be at least one foot from the wall for bass to be half decent. I ended up angling mine slightly towards the 'listening point' which gave better outward reflection of sound off the wall and out around the room. The overall sound is surprisingly good for a very inexpensive project. Definitely worth a try and I have made mine into artwork so that they appear to be paintings, I now have two 'Banksy's' as my speakers.

[@AmplifyDIY]

I'd love to see pictures of your setup. Sounds pretty cool!

[@cmpremlap]

That’s an awesome idea 💡

[@Le_Petit_Lapin]

So, whack em together, add a sub and you're pretty much set?

[@KalRandom]

Since bass in non directional why not use a separate unit shooting bass into the floor?

[@StphRolland]

you tried 90cm x 40 cm of balsa, but which thickness ? I might give it a try some day.

[@klausjones9012]

If you want to go for a full sound, you just need to daisy chain a subwoofer with build in Crossover before each panel. That will step up the sound tremendously.

[@anthonybollon3212]

Yup can confirm. I had good results with that setup

[@futatn]

I wouldn't do that as you are trying to connect a low wattage thing (the actuator) to a higher wattage thing (subwoofer) and the amp won't play nice at all with a mismatch like that. Everything in a series is going to receive about the same output of power, of course a little diminishing because of resistance from start to finish. If you did this you you are either under powering a sub woofer; which is pointless, or you are overpowering the actuator; which damages that.

[@leeknivek]

​@@futatnwell you need a two channel amplifier to accomplish that anyway so you will have control over power attenuation.

[@deejayemceeflounder4328]

Personally I’d be offsetting using the golden ratio. I base that on nothing

[@jonobrien3381]

After cutting the boards to golden ratio dimensions, of course.

[@hxhdfjifzirstc894]

You moron! Everybody knows the Fibonacci sequence is the only way to go. Unbelievable!

[@johnj2496]

And now you've ripped a hole to the core of the planet As the bass drops to the same frequency as earth Sudden doom with the boom 💥

[@wasabij]

Based on the harmonic wave patterns in the Tech Ingredients video, I believe that would cause even more harmonic resonance which will make the sound very lumpy (some frequencies really loud, others weirdly quiet)

[@wasabij]

Sorry 😐 know it was a joke but just in case you do try it and are unimpressed, I figured I would say maybe why.

[@robotstonka7118]

That guy from "tech ingredients" is extremely smart, his projects are crazy good and interesting. Love watching his videos! Thanks for putting to the test this one, I'm really looking forward to build them myself. I have a good quality amplification and I'm very curious how those panels would perform, but I would definetly build those bigger panels too for the lower frequencies. Cheers!!

[@gorak9000]

All you have to do to realize they are NOT the world's best speakers is look at the measured response curve in the original video. They have no bass response whatsoever. I like his channel too, and this was the first video of his I watched, but I think his claim in this case is pretty bogus.

[@RobertLBarnard]

I've been watching Tech Ingredients years, and full disclosure, am a fan. That said, and knowing how technical the host is, and the incredibly broad his subject matter is, his "claim" of "best" is up to all the ingredients (meaning criteria) one puts into the word "best". Personally I think its his dry, New England humor that lets him say "best" with a straight face, and he probably privately rolls his eyes when someone forms an opinion either way ("omg, he said that, so its gott'a be true" or "he's completely bogus") without ever doing their own research. This channel, does its own research! Nice content here. But was hoping to find more DIY Amplifier related things :D

[@DoremiFasolatido1979]

@@gorak9000 What are you comparing them to, and in what way? Do you even know what actually goes into a typical off-the-shelf set of speakers? . I have no idea what you do or don't know. I'm just trying to find out what your specific basis for comparison is, because your wording really just makes it sounds like you're being contrarian for its own sake. . Irrelevant and contextless technical jargon...check Statement that they lack a feature they weren't claimed to have in the first place, and which is a completely separate consideration anyway...check Preemptively defensive, passive-aggressive, and completely irrelevant statement of support for the individual who made the disputed claim...check. . Just sayin...you might want to reconsider how organize your statements, going forward.

[@gorak9000]

@@DoremiFasolatido1979 I'll admit that I haven't built these DML panels yet to actually compare them (but considering the cost, I will at some point), but I did build a set of these a couple years ago, and they are simply amazing (as they should be, with just the drivers alone being $1k for FL FR and C) speakerdesignworks.com/Finalists_5.html I linked to the page with the measured response curve, but you can navigate to the other pages to see the whole thing. That was my first foray into DIY speaker builds, and honestly my first "big" woodworking project. I think they came out really nice, even if years later, they still don't have veneer on them. Build pics here: goo.gl/photos/icxCcHKanjKtUNLMA They have really flat response down to 40Hz, and up to 20Khz. If anything needs improvement, it's my room response. I definitely have some room resonance issues at the low end as they're in a rectangular, fairly small room. Some measurement with REW and some bass traps are definitely needed! I get everything he mentions in the video - the "wide" soundstage, not being able to identify where the speakers are, but instead being able to point to where each instrument was on the stage in the initial recording, etc. You don't need a panel speaker to get that, just a well designed set of "monitors" (I'm not sure I'd call a ~50lb speaker a "monitor", but that's what the designer called them) can get you that. To my ears, every time I hear these panels, which admittedly is through a youtube video (and probably camera microphone, etc), always in a super echoey room (just important as your speakers is the room they're in, and the acoustic treatment of said room), and they sound thin and tinny, and muffled at the same time - like not only are they missing the low end, but also the high end as well.

[@ahmetturkmen0011]

This guy is straight to the point, professional and down to Earth. Instantly Subscribed!

[@RedneckIrishman]

Well I'll be dipped! A guy just discovered your channel and low and behold... He's only wearing a VGG cap! Respect-O-meter 2000 fully charged!

[@AmplifyDIY]

I went ahead and did the right thing.

[@ziiofswe]

@@AmplifyDIY You need to adjust your language a bit... It's not "speakers", it's "vibrulators". And it's not "amplifier", it's "sound-make-it-happener". And so on and so forth...

[@AmplifyDIY]

@@ziiofswe It's all just digicals as far as a guy's concerned.

[@Fall2Caine]

This sort of thing and a little 10" subwoofer and somebody could have a really clean surround sound in their home

[@lyedica]

These really bring the thunder. They're basically Fac-tree. A guy is pretty impressed with these soundalators. I will go ahead and do the right thing and build these right now..... no..... no I won't, I'll just like and subscribe so that's good.

[@DracolegacyOfficial]

Tech Ingredients is a remarkable channel and i love to see what they come up with

[@AmplifyDIY]

Some of the stuff they do is simply amazing!

[@dingdong2103]

it's a great channel but they're pretty off with speakers. If you want panel speakers that are actually good, you need to go electrostatic and they need to be BIG. I'm speaking 2ft x 6ft5 size.

[@HerbaMachina]

@@dingdong2103 you clearly did not pay attention when watching their videos, or you would know they actually talk about the drawbacks of their speaker designs, how to compensate for them, and what is actually better.

[@dingdong2103]

@@HerbaMachina Yeah granted I stopped watching after they made outrageous claims that I knew couldn't be true.

[@kj_H65f]

@@dingdong2103 like what?

[@ronnydowdy7432]

That was great. I made some of these in the 70's with styrofoam ice coolers tops. They sounded better than any speaker we had for a car back in the day. I called them transducers. Glued to the tops of the coolers. I did have a 40 w booster equalizer to give it a loud clear sound. The equalizer made all the difference because I was able to adjust the sound of the music to the best performance. This was in 1974 technology. Enjoyed your show and it sure brought back some good memories.

[@mortifersoldat]

This is technically a transducer.. but solely for audio

[@GustavoEBarriga]

Hey, I remember some of that, back in the day a friend of mine had an old popular mechanics magazine where they explained it (transducers) and called it something like "the speakers of the future"

[@InfectiousGroovePodcast]

I definitely need to test a set of these. What an interesting concept

[@Q5Grafx]

30 years ago i had a set of blaupunkt titanium flat disc speakers in my car. same idea a flat disc and an exciter and it sounded incredible. smaller harder discs should get the high treble sounding good.

[@BouXIII]

The sound extremely well in the high notes. If you listen to Jazz and classic, they are insane. Violins, Cellos and Brass instruments sound like they are right next to you. You definitely NEED to have a sub woofer for the low frequencies. nothing big, i use a 50€ sub woofer and it does the trick. I compared them to 2000€ home studio setups and the styrofoam speakers are noticably better for this kind of music. All the sounds are much clearer and easier to distinguish. The 2000€ home studio setuop shines in its versatility and adaptability. it works for all genres, all versions and has a lot of settings that work very well.

[@ChainsawFPV]

The look on your face when the music started says it all. Never would have thought this worked.

[@DerMBen]

I've been wanting to install some speakers for watching films in our living room, but my mum has been adamant about not having speakers on the wall 'ruin' our living room. I might try building these and seeing if you could turn them into decoration at the same time...

[@markfinley3703]

I still have the Magnaplanar speakers I bought in 1977, and they are still incredible. The separation between instruments is superb. And you can crank them up to insanely loud without distortion. But I might build a set of these for my garage.

[@maker-matt]

Yes, the older Maggies are assuming that you have the room and amp for them. (Yes I have owned some)

[@wasabij]

I have some MMGWs and they were only ever happy on my big HK, but they don't have the bottom end I need now I have a bigger space than my apartment. Thought about upgrading to full size, but I have an idea....

[@Thuddster]

Maggies are terrific, but these are not Maggies. They have their own limitations. But still really good, and terrific when used in numbers with DSP.

[@chuckbayliss8610]

Actually mounted a pair to three quarter inch sheetrock when I was building my man cave and they sound superb.

[@LouSkrou]

How did you mount them? I’m thinking of building some and I’m curious how to go about it

[@trigger_me_timbers]

​@@LouSkrou use the adhesive it comes with or use heavy duty epoxy. Just buy a couple and mount them to random shit. Its loads of fun. Then you can get serious with it if you want and do the foam board, sheet rock, etc. I highly suggest watching the Tech Ingredients video on using exciters/tactile transducers.

[@trigger_me_timbers]

no, no they didnt. lol.

[@cafenightster4548]

@@trigger_me_timbers lmao

[@genephipps6421]

I didn't know sheetrock even came in 3/4 inch thick sheets...

[@JamesFaction]

The edge-on footage was fantastic. That was really cool. Already seen the tech ingredients video, you definitely added to it. He did mention that you do need to add a subwoofer as the sound level from the panels falls off around 120hz. Still really impressive tho.

[@MarkHarmer]

I have a pair of Carlsbro flat panel speakers and use one of them for busking. The sound carries amazingly well outdoors even at long distances in noisy places, but they’re not any louder close-to. Also stops the issue of people close to the speaker talking very loud. Flat panel speakers have amazing properties! The sound is also really clean and well-defined even at a distance.

[@ObsoleteTechnologies]

4:15 alternatively flip the drill bit around , heat the end with a propane torch ,and burn the holes in.

[@runnergo1398]

Wouldn't drilling in reverse do the same thing?

[@thatonelonelyeagle5398]

This is like a rabbit hole project! The panel could be carved or designed in a way to reproduced the bass part of the sound. While maintaining The same size. Very astounding sound!

[@SpencerThayer]

I've been thinking about building some of these for three years. Thanks for convincing me to give it a shot.

[@AmplifyDIY]

I'd love to hear what you think of yours when you are done!

[@wege85]

You get best result with multible exciters. But the tweeters to corners and bass mid´range exciters to somewhere middle.

[@lancecluster]

@@wege85 Do you have suggestions for which tweeter exciter and which bass mid range to use? Curious. I assume that also requires a crossover?

[@wege85]

@@lancecluster Next time I use better ones but this is my setup: DAEX25X4-4, DAEX25CT-4, DAEX25W-8, two DAEX9CT-4 (these are way too weak but I still added them to the setup). No need crossover. I recommend to use orthodynamic or ribbon tweeter also.

[@lancecluster]

@@wege85 Thank you for the added detail, much appreciated

[@NAVYABHAN]

Radio Shack used to sell speaker's that were "Flat Panel." They were sold in the mid 70's to early 80's. The sound of theirs was awesome,and were no more than an inch thick!

[@TraneFrancks]

Hahaha. In the early '70s, I used to obsess over the Radio Shack catalog, checking specs and imagining all the stuff I could buy and/or build. Same with Heath Kit.

[@dirty2307]

I was cleaning an old shed a couple days ago and found 2 of those flat speakers.

[@AmplifyDIY]

Do they still work?

[@maker-matt]

Yup, they sure did. they kinda looked like a lid from a Styrofoam cooler

[@ziiofswe]

I've seen versions of the concept, used as car speakers... You just strap them to the sun visors, no need to make holes in the doors. (Probably needed a sub of course... but still.)

[@JaenEngineering]

I used to have a pair of Wharfedale PPS-1 flat panel speakers back in the day. Think they were about £180 back in the day, and I've seen them going for as little as £90 today if you can find them. On the plus side, they also come with a matched sub woofer to fill in the missing bottom end.

[@afterburner94]

Absolutely incredible! Thanks for the video. Who knew that just a piece of 1 inch foam could do that!

[@AmplifyDIY]

I was really surprised as well!

[@neilfurby555]

Great stuff and nice presentation style, excellent camera work. Thank you.

[@AmplifyDIY]

Glad you liked it, and thanks for watching!

[@saftigesfruchtchen456]

Love the smile that lights up when you test the speakers.

[@etptech4417]

I built those speakers as well and I put one in the center and one at the 2fifths 5fifths and one rounded corners one without. I was able to paint them black. like Tech Ingredients did. They sound amazing. People could hear them from a block away when I played them outside.

[@rickschuman2926]

The first band I was in, back in the late 60s, had polystyrene PA speakers. We were just a small garage band and they worked fine. We ran them from an old Bogen tube amp. They were very fragile.

[@davethenerd42]

I just found your channel through this video. The YT algorithm has actually done something good. Instantly liked and subscribed. I refuse to hit that bell icon though. I'd love to do it to help, but I loathe entirely all notifications... Great content! About to watch your car detailing video!

[@AmplifyDIY]

Wow, thanks!

[@steveluck9541]

I had to buy an 8ft sheet so used most of it to build two pairs of different sizes panels. Did all the sanding and painting and gave them away as a Christmas present along with a cheap class d amp that had a seperate sub out put. It needed it couple months later picked up a very cheap junk shop passive sub. Just picked out the one that felt heaviest to get and idea of cabinet and driver quality. Now it works very well for peanuts money.

[@williamhustonrn6160]

Good video, I saw the original video a while back and did 4 of these in my office and the sound quality is out of this world. I did full 4ftx8ft sections instead of the smaller ones on 2 of the walls, then I did 2 of the smaller 2ftx4ft ones. The larger panels for sure have more low-end compared to the smaller panel. I bought some black ink and painted the surfaces black with the ink and did some white ink making the foam boards look like playing cards. I found when I tried to spray paint them, the sound drastically changed and didn't sound as good. The ink didn't affect the sound as much.

[@ganormand]

I would guess that when paint hardens, it made the boards less flexible-so either much more power was needed, or certain frequencies weren't reproduced, or both.

[@riothero313]

You can buy dye in spray cans made by SEM. It would probably work perfectly as it's not a paint.

[@allthesorrow1]

How many sound exciters on the 4*8 panel?

[@johnxina2140]

Love your vice grip garage hat!! I can appreciate another fan of a great channel

[@AmplifyDIY]

Bring the Thunder!

[@briansc5148]

I know this isn't audiophile level design, but I thought I'd add some thoughts. That very large amount of free swinging and inertia complications, especially in placed close to the wall behind it causes clarity and phase problems. With its' surface area and problems I mentioned, maybe that can be worked to your favor with near room corner placement, with a diagonal orientation. This can enhance some frequencies, plus the added wall reflected sound will give you a wider/deeper/more complex soundfield, sort of like old Bose direct/reflecting speakers for a bit more 'concert hall' effect.

[@wssometimesavowel3639]

Good idea! If it's missing depth or meat as he says it could be like mid range frequencies or resonance being off either too little, in which case I was thinking that could be mimicked by adding more surface area larger plates, and resonance could be mimicked on a flat plane with increased perimeter, like a string being either lengthened or loosened makes a deeper tone, but each method has a different depth or meat 😂.. maybe a kites and darts pattern like veratasium used in his penrose tile video or those fractal antennae designs they use in cell phones. 3d cut one add a speaker and try it experimenting is the only way to know. I'm a science girl, But I have a woman's intuition that because Fibonacci sequence is found in musical notes, that kites and darts or sunflower holes or some other fractal containing phi would be an ideal design constraint if you wish to keep a flat surface. The easiest way to check nodes and anti nodes is by laying it level and sprinkling salt while scanning through frequency ranges. ❤ Lol I wanna try this now!!

[@snake_eater71]

@@wssometimesavowel3639 That definitely would be a great way to see the various frequency locations.

[@VigiHunter]

I can report that these sound way more roomy and bassy when mounted up in the corner at an 45° angle (center of the speaker is pointing into the corner) i recommend getting an amp with an equalizer as the mids are kinda weak.

[@gervaiscurrie6675]

@@wssometimesavowel3639 That's interesting - the stereo distributed-mode + subwoofer might be described as 2.1 - are you heading towards 5.1?

[@gervaiscurrie6675]

- now you mention 'soundfield', might there be any mileage in some form of 'reverse-soundfield microphone' -style speaker (employing drivers/exciters instead of mics?) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundfield_microphone

[@hedgeearthridge6807]

I really hope painting or at least fabric wrapping works on these. Imagine in your living room, on both sides of the TV, 2 decorative paintings hanging on the wall, that are actually speakers! It's like "Stealth Speakers" if such a thing exists. (How to hide the wires? Ummm, we will cross that bridge when we get there...)

[@diamonddogie]

You could pass them trough the hanging wire to the ceiling, and hide them in there

[@Ascendion]

The good fabrics for speakers are such because they're 'acoustically transparent'. If you fill the pores of the fabric with paint that would no longer be true.

[@S_Carol]

I guess you could place them behind a deep-ish frame or canvas? It would also be useful for the wiring and mounting. But I'd keep the fabric really light so that it doesn't interfere much; probably dyed instead of painted too.

[@JoeNielsen44]

I was thinking of doing the same thing.

[@Techlifeandmore]

How to hide the wires? Just disguise them as wires for the lights for the “paintings”. Get 2 flat panel lights, mount them to the wall, and put the “paintings” speakers over those lights. Mix the speaker wires in with the light wires.

[@ChrisTexan]

Going to have to try this (especially for "garage" use!)... a few tips I noted, others probably have already volunteered also... #1 - For the mounting support holes, use a nail (bolt, or even the cotter pins themselves) in a pair of vice grips, heat up with a torch, and plunge them into the foam (rather than trying to drill it)... they'll easily melt their way in to make nice holes (if you want larger holes, use whatever is appropriately large enough). Also, classic error, don't make the mounting holes "straight in"... angle each mounting hole a bit from "outside to inside" (so they start closer to the edge, and angle inwards inside the foam so their tips are closer together than the loops on the outside).... then, after epoxying in place, tie/attach a string, wire, etc (something fine and unnoticeable, doesn't have to be super strong, light fishing line for instance) between the loops, binding them together. Now, because of the angles, neither pin can come out fully, if one loses it's grip, and starts trying to slide out of it's hole, the string between them will pull it towards the other pin, but since the holes are angled outwards, they can't go anywhere (in fact, no need to epoxy if the foam was strong enough, just leverage would hold them in, but I'd use the epoxy given this is foam and not really strong). That's just a backup method to ensure no pull-out. (Same way baseboard (or other lengths of materials) nails should be installed at alternating angles, so if the board tries to warp from the wall, the counter-angled nails keep it from budging). Finally, I don't know how it would affect the sound, but there is a "bedcoating" spray from rustoleum (available in rattle can at wally world and elsewhere I'm sure, rumors are the roll-on variety has a different consistency, don't use that). I'd actually spray that on the back of these before mounting the transducers. It dries to an EXTREMELY tough surface (it's not rubbery, which I'd originally hoped for in my application, but live and learn)... anyhow, that would probably greatly strengthen the backside of the panel, and probably have little to no affect on the sound reproduction (worth an experiment anyhow)... If I do this, I'll follow some of these tips myself and maybe put something together to share, I'm not good at that though, I always "do" projects and never really do good documenting them. Thanks for this, it was fun!

[@AmplifyDIY]

Awesome write up! I actually have a can of that bed liner spray from a different project. However, based on the testing I did in the follow-up video to this one, I'm pretty sure spraying the back of the panel will have a pretty large effect on the performance: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnSbYmerhs-fl6c I'd love to hear about it if you do put something together. Good luck!

[@halukonal1400]

Imagine you make a home theater system with five of these

[@topisukuvaara9798]

I mean, that's excactly what I had in my mind...

[@brandonxvi707]

I'm going to make some as rear channels for my surround set up. A whole array of these with one subwoofer would be sick

[@Johnny_C137]

@@brandonxvi707 Sounds like a bigger panel would do the trick for more bass.

[@krombopulosrick7920]

You can make 5 for less then one set of good tower speakers. Might Aswell put a sub in the seats for a home theatre.

[@RoronoaDeep]

I'll try that soon :)

[@1rexrex]

Its definitely interesting to hear these for the first time. A very pleasant square wall of sound coming at you.

[@tims8603]

I'm working on a pair of these. I'm waiting for the exciters to come so I'm preparing the foam. I'll tell you, I had a heck of a time getting a good cut, with a razor knife, when rounding the corners. so I cut the panels down with my table saw and started over. This time I used my jig saw. Worked much better. Then I rounded over the edges on the front with a router and a rounding over bit with a bearing. Looks almost factory made now.

[@gerudobombshell]

I've been thinking about making a pair of these - happy to hear they made it past your initial skepticism! Great video! 3 things that come to my audio-engineer mind: * I think the 24 x 48 panels would both increase the frequency response, and cut down on what may be contributing to the "missing" tonality. * Also, having both speakers use the 2/5th's arrangement may improve the sonic quality of the speakers. The purpose of the 2/5th placement was to mitigate resonance nodes. Giving the same treatment to both speakers would also have made them both equivalent sound-wise (instead of having a different frequency response between L/R) * Appreciate the demo for the listeners using the Lav mic. One thing: the single microphone placed centered between the two speakers is tricky, particularly when near phanom center of the pair. The sound is very sensitive to "phasing" from slight left/right movement in this zone - the same sound arriving at slightly different times based on distance (eg. fractions of a millisecond). Consequently, there will be dynamic "comb filtering" in the Lav mic audio. Maybe a more authentic recording for us via the Lav would have been to disengage one of the speakers and then use the Lav mic to capture the mono output straight on from the remaining panel. Thanks!

[@AmplifyDIY]

Hey Zach - thank you for your thoughts and ideas! According to Tech Ingredients, the larger 24x48 panels provide more low end, but sacrifice the highs. They recommend a blend of both sizes, as well as mixing in some panels made of acoustic ceiling tile. I did a follow-up video a while ago that you may be interested: I stuck with the same square panel, but played with different treatments: sanded vs non, rounded corners vs sharp, painted, covered in a fabric, dual exciters vs single, with and without a subwoofer, all the above compared to a decent set of bookshelf speakers, etc. I also used a binaural mic to record all the tests. There are some parts of the video that overpower the mics and wind up clipping (especially with the sub) but I think someone with a sensitive ear will be surprised by just how much tiny changes affect the sound: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnSbYmerhs-fl6c

[@duncan-rmi]

I would have a pair of 24x24 on each side, hung in vertical pairs, drivers in parallel (obvs!), & lock all the drivers down to stands of some sort. wondering what sort of finish you could apply to the foam, for domestic integration purposes. also, want to hear more demos where the sound source is a voice recording. that's the real acid test of the realism of speakers.

[@tupuhumuhumunukunukuapuaa3093]

You need to keep your mic to the front of the speakers. You've got dipoles for the most part so in between will be plenty of cancellation. Your distance from the front wall will have a strong effect in that regard. Play around with placement (think Magnepans, if you've ever had any experience with those speakers). I need to try this out for myself!

[@edcampbell9900]

I bought a pair of Goodmans Plainex speakers in the 70's and still have and use today. They are pretty much exactly what you have got there.

[@DMC428]

the Problematic with the missing "body of the tone" at around 9:00 is due to your amp. I have the same one and the sound is (for my standards) extremely poor. In case you have something like a Yamaha AS-700 or something similar, try it out. I'm pretty sure you'll love the result.

[@mattuw82]

I think another issue is probably that there is no woofer and it's missing the fundamental frequency. I'd be surprised if those played anything below about 100 Hz.

[@refraggedbean]

@@mattuw82 yeah a sub would greatly improve it

[@Natrone410]

I have the fosi with the sub and it doesn't do the mids well either

[@scottbehl216]

I made mine 2ft x 4ft and they sound Excellent. 2 Exciters per Panel and my regular home Amp at 100 watts per channel. The only way to go !

[@allenbournes4697]

Hello Scott- thanks for the post. What amplifier and music source did you use?

[@michaelclairforet5031]

Good presentation and good video. After watching I almost feel like I do it myself.

[@TheSmokie55]

Love the content, glad to have found you. Well shot, edited and imaginative videos. Great Job. BTW, love the Vice Grip Garage hat. :Thumbs-up:

[@AmplifyDIY]

A guy went ahead and did the right thing.

[@AmplifyDIY]

The full set of speakers from Tech Ingredients includes a total of 8 different panels, using different materials, shapes, and sizes. I elected to build just these 2 panels as a way to dip my toes in the water of DIY speaker systems and to see if their claims could possibly be true. The foam boards each cost me around $5, and the exciters were around $25 each. I can’t believe the sound quality I’m getting out of a set of speakers I built in a few minutes for only $60 in parts!

[@Bozemanjustin]

To be fair, he says worlds best speakers under $115 You only made ONE speaker type, he made TWO types and kinds and used them together to create a synergy. He did centered vs 2/5 3/5 rule. You are not giving this a fair shot

[@RPRsChannel]

But, can you paint them, or will that impact the sound? Maybe speaker cloth is OK?

[@RobertEmery]

@@Bozemanjustin he says he's impressed by the sound quality and you chastise him for not giving them a fair shot. WTF?

[@JC-lk3oy]

@@RPRsChannel yes you can absolutely paint them. Latex paint with a smooth roller turns out nice. Here's another link that may interest you. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rma1XqZ4atuFq9E

[@Bozemanjustin]

@@RobertEmery when the man made the speaker he didn't make one he made four different ones that were meant to be played together for the perfect sound this cost $115 This guy made one of the four speakers and is giving his opinion He said he was impressed but he also said that it was lacking in certain ranges of sound This was addressed by the original video by having four speakers playing as one for the perfect sound. So yes, I have every right to complain. As this guy did not give it a fair shot. His complaints would have been taken care of by making the other three speakers just like the man in the original video did. If you repainted the Mona Lisa with only one color of paint.. you could not sit back and go, I don't know the Mona Lisa's pretty good but it's lacking. And yes , if this guy said oh my God these speakers are amazing, I would have still said he didn't give it a fair shot because he's basing that judgment on one , out of four of the speakers created. So I would say, brother if you think that's amazing, make the other three speakers , to take care of the fact that they have to be played all together , for the best sound reproduction. But you seem rather simple minded let me put it another way. If you get with a chick that's supposed to be the best lay in town, but you only let her give you a Bj, you can't fairly say you really gave it a fair shot can you?

[@Iron_Thunderstorm]

I am so glad you did this. I considered trying it out ever since I saw the video a few years ago. You’ve revamped my interest in going for it.

[@brendanloconnell]

I find they work better with larger rectangular panels. The low end is dependent on the maximum dimension of the panel, so you can reach lower with longer pieces.

[@MinecraftManSteav]

Another great product is hanging ceiling panels for lows

[@Mietas2]

@@MinecraftManSteav Many people use panel speakers like that for surround of Atmos effect speakers. With wide soundstage should be perfect for that.

[@brendanloconnell]

@@MinecraftManSteav that's what I used.

[@OMGitzBadCompany]

I wonder if they would perform better or worse if they were suspended by the driver instead of the panel. I could imagine a tripod setup connected to the driver somehow with the panel fully suspended so it's range of motion is not impeded by the hanging strings.

[@johnyrocket223]

nice idea. that would also make them portable and a high enough tripod could make for some easy repositioning for testing room acoustics

[@stillfeelnit]

Would the panel be supported by driver that way?

[@dwalker399]

Hang them on rubber bands.

[@jfnahabedian]

I love your bloopers! Makes this video real and relatable

[@AmplifyDIY]

Thanks for watching!

[@pand0ras]

Sound amazing, looks wierd. Is there a way of painting or layering with cloth, without altering the quality?

[@AmplifyDIY]

I have a follow-up video planned where I will be testing that. Stay tuned!

[@johndavidmartindale3779]

Don't paint them. The testing was done with both sanded and un sanded. Some thing about the porosity of the sanded board improved the sound quality over the sealed board so I'd you paint it you loose the sound quality you were looking for in the first place.

[@TheCarpenterUnion]

If you were to rigidly suspend cloth over the front you'd probably be OK (use some wooden dowels)

[@3rdHalf1]

I made Speakers DML speakers like these for my PC. My monitor is close to the wall and the speakers right behind to it. The sound stage of these things is amazing, because to get similar result would require book-shelf speakers to be placed at least a meter behind the monitor. Also - a sub is definetly needed. Fun fact: The reason why DML speakers aren’t popular in consumer market is because they have a patent that have been bought by military.

[@Andoxico]

Tech Ingredients said you can spray paint the polystyrene panels as long as you keep the nozzle of the spray paint can at least 40cm away from the panels and it doesn't hurt the sound quality

[@bob-a-louannamaria7960]

The deeper notes need more air being moved. These don’t move air much but just vibrate. These plus a sub would be solid

[@zigmogcreator]

I built a pair for my shop when the tech ingredients vid posted. I have two large traditional and a big subwoofer and it's much better than my Klipsch set up in the house. My shop system gets blasted very loud for hours each day. They are really durable as well. Good video.

[@AmplifyDIY]

Very cool!

[@h5mind373]

In December a local department store had a couple small drivers stuck to the inside of their main display windows, and the sound from just two drivers filled the whole space in front of the store with incredible, non-directional seasonal music. So maybe try a pair on some old glass windows?

[@blueridgedsia]

It would be really interesting if you could tune these by incorporating a dual channel 31 band eq. You would need a DAW that has a spectral analyzer and a microphone. You would then play a flat sine wave through these speakers out of the daw through the eq. Using the spectral analyzer you would record on a second channel the sound from the speakers, muting the output to avoid a feedback loop, and tune the EQ until the signal is flat the way it occurs when you just play it in the daw.. Once you get the pure sine wave flat, re demo the speakers. They should produce the sound alot more accurately. It will also let you to visually demonstrate on the eq graph what the raw speakers are attenuating from the sine signal without any equalization.

[@anachronismic]

Just as an addition to this, in my experience I've seen systems use a chirp for this (I assume linearly increasing but idk since the system did all the adjustments automatically). I suppose the processing software may be proprietary though, and definitely more work than what you're describing. The point of the chirp is to get info on the whole frequency range, instead of just the frequency of the sine wave.

[@blueridgedsia]

@@anachronismic I could see the value in a chirp, but is the chirp full spectrum? I did not really mention the importance of using a 3 octave range so you are well into 16,000 khz with the sine. A lowpass at 250hz would be fine. though im not sure how low these really go

[@anachronismic]

@@blueridgedsia imma preface this in saying that my base of knowledge related to this is primarily in electromagnetic waves so I may be making wrong assumptions in some way or another, but In that context would a sine wave be considered "full spectrum"? A sine wave is by definition a narrowband thing right? I brought up a chirp (which in this context is basically a sine wave with linearly increasing frequency) because it was what (I assume) was used in a similar context when my parents got a home theater setup and it calibrated itself, though it's probably not worth doing unless you're really into signal processing lol, given it's not something you'd do by eye. What you've said definitely makes more practical sense though.

[@anachronismic]

​@@blueridgedsia Ok I've done a quick google and it looks like my general intuition seems to be how equalization is done with regards to using digital systems to cancel out room noise (chirp, pink noise, or stepped sine waves). Also, did you mean a highpass at 250 Hz? Unless you're making like a sub I can't imagine a low pass at 250 Hz being very helpful.

[@blueridgedsia]

@@anachronismic Yes I meant a highpass, Its been years since I have delved into audio jargon. As for the sine, it could be played many different ways. Ideally its one flat signal. It is useful for cancelling out room noise which can color the sound. The idea is to get the sine via mic as flat as the pure generated sine.

[@ChillSydneyWebSurfer]

i was looking for the best placing for my bluetooth resonance/conduction speaker and this explains to use light but stiff. thx

[@PghGingerKid]

What?!... No cold snacks while you're working?! At least you know what you're doing with the digicals.

[@BillyMcCord]

Love the VGG subtle comment

[@PaulyOutdoors]

@Billy McCord - The problem with a lot of us long time fanaticals is that Derek's unique etiquette is now so second nature, that we now speak it in our every day lives without even knowing we're doing it. It's fine.

[@gregghernandez2714]

Great video, thanks for including the proper placement measurements. I like the idea of building these for my garage shop. Inexpensive, with better than good sound. I was wondering, would it be possible to buy larger panels of this stuff, or could you glue two or three panels together for longer vertical panels? I don't really like the idea of using ceiling tile, because that stuff is so heavy and would be harder to hang. Oh yeah, one other thing. Why not paint the speakers with your logo on them, I think that would look really cool.

[@AmplifyDIY]

My local Home Depot sells this in 4 foot by 8 foot sheets... Check your local hardware store. I'll bet you can find it. Good luck!

[@SecondLifeDesigner]

Love to see the followup video you proposed with the bigger panel for more base. :)

[@justgivemethetruth]

I have seen this speaker design several times on YT and it is really fascinating. One guy did a 2 stage speaker design with one rectangle being made of the foam board and another out of balsa wood ... which might act to give the sound that mid-range "heart". I am really thinking of doing this ... though my music blasting days are pretty far behind me for the most part.

[@tobuslieven]

Try adding weight to the exciters. It will change the exciter's inertia, and therefore the reaction of the boards.

[@jeffh4505]

I wonder what would happen if you used double-sided tape to mount them to a wall, stud, or something else immovable, instead of hanging them.

[@azapps]

@@jeffh4505 Sound is about vibrating the air, so a large stiff light weight panel mounted to a driver will vibrate the large panel which will vibrate the air and make sound. If instead you tried vibrating a heavy or fixed wall that can not move, you will get no sound.

[@nickl9939]

@@azapps The boards would still move freely, but the exciters would be mounted to the wall so that all the energy would be used on the boards. If you watch at the very end of the other thoughts section, you will see the exciters vibrate themselves, meaning that energy is lost and the panels aren't being vibrated at its peak potential. (I don't know really anything about speakers, it might be detrimental to mount it to a wall. But this is what I thought)

[@jeffh4505]

@@azapps I understand that, what I’m saying is to mount the whole assembly to a wall via the driver, rather than hanging it. The board would still vibrate, but potentially vibrate more. I would think that it would act more like a true speaker.

[@azapps]

@@jeffh4505 sorry, I misunderstood your comment. I agree 100%, mounting the driver to a wall will increase the output and will eliminate some of the resonances. Or perhaps put another foam panel to the other half of the driver, so it's double sided.

[@davidoneill4797]

i had forgotten about these - thnks for the review - i got 4 dual channel Haflers (8x75W) waitin on a build.

[@CharlieLui]

The bloopers are great!

[@floydloonie4880]

In my opinion this type of DIY speaker is the best sounding -FOR THE PRICE!! Dipole, box-less, open back, and similar panel type speakers are amazing, and these similar panel speakers tend to give amazing room filling fields of sound. Also there are no crossover wiring ! to deal with Of course they are not "THE BEST..." But if you apply some art to the panels, hang them on the walls, and your friends will go nuts trying to figure out where ALL THE music is coming from in a room with ordinary speaker boxes are not to be found. Or build a couple of really small speakers that can be placed near the panels, and people will think those are the source and scratch their heads in wonder!

[@anthonyprofera9655]

Why have I not seen a video like this until now? That’s just crazy cool, definitely gonna try this! Thanks

[@AmplifyDIY]

Thanks for watching!

[@peterweeds4682]

isn't 2/5 from left and 3/5 from the bottom exactly the same as the simpler 2/5 from side and top?

[@Alex-zw7sr]

Lol I didn't catch this until you said it. Frames of reference aye!

[@a3kid]

I need to try this, for how simple they are why not build some!

[@altemose_prime]

Just saw this on TT. I’m gonna make two of these for my office computer speakers thank you for the tutorial on how to make these looks amazing.

[@AmplifyDIY]

You're very welcome!

[@quelorepario]

As soon as I clicked on this channel the first thing that crossed my mind was about fig newtons. I don't know why...

[@johnboughton7451]

If you do decide to build the 24x48 sheets of Bamboo as the bamboo can capture different audio frequencies and you’ll be amazed by combining the two I’ve Liked & Subscribed

[@ScottHigdon]

Speakers arriving today. Ordered 3 pairs of exciters from parts express and have shared the video with several friends and family. Thanks for the video.

[@AmplifyDIY]

Awesome! I'd love to hear what you think of them once you've heard them in person. Good luck!

[@USSBARBEL]

Excellent presentation and testing. I'm curious how these would sound if the speakers were put in a frame to separate the compression/rarefaction of the sound waves....

[@michaelvanzijl6153]

I would love to see experimentation with a few diffirent Suspention methods to try and bring the base out more... I can imagine having a few diffirent sizes of panels and drivers suspended in diffirent ways would bring out a complete range of frequencies very accurately especially with some added frequency control through somthing like a parametric crossover ...

[@AmplifyDIY]

Tech Ingredients did exactly that, and yes, such a setup produces an amazing, full range sound. Requires a LOT of space, though. I don’t have anywhere large enough for a permanent install like that, unfortunately.

[@michaelvanzijl6153]

@@AmplifyDIY that's actually epic to know... Will go check their channel out.. Thumbs up to your channel man, have really enjoyed your episodes so far. Keep it going...

[@BouXIII]

i personally like to use 1-4 panels mounted on the ceiling. and a cheap 50€ sub woofer that stands on the floor. Sounds crazy but it works. since the sound of the panel(s) from the ceiling is travelling in all directions, you wont even notice the sub woofer on the floor. If you like Classic and JHazz music, especially brass and string instruments, you have to build at least one of those panels.

[@kriznasanjumia]

Creation of this speaker, and the look on his face proves it's Awesome

[@mjakersusmc]

Question: Could you paint the surface of the foam board black and then build a frame around the boards out of 1x4’s... almost like a picture frame? Also, what would happen to the sound if you “anchored” them at the top, bottom and sides, suspending them in the middle of said frame?

[@mhgscrubadub9917]

fixing the edges of the panel would probably deaden the sound a lot

[@Vito_Tuxedo]

@@mhgscrubadub9917 Right. The ability of the panel to freely vibrate in the air is part of its efficient transfer of the transducer's energy to the air. Anchoring the edges would be equivalent to increasing the mass of the panel, making the transducer work harder (using more power) to create less sound. Very inefficient. I would only do that if the panel were mounted to a horn, for a long-throw application, which would increase the efficiency.

[@MrVolksbeetle]

I have a pair of these mated to a Acoustimass 7 sub. I absolutely love the voice clarity, midrange detail and overall fill rate of sound. (I hope that comes across ok, I really don’t know how else to describe it.) I usually get away with much lower volumes than I used to need. Best ~$30.00 I’ve ever spent.

[@47Edge]

Very well done video! Great topic, clear, easy to understand, no stupid music killing the voice audio! I am going to build a set for my workshop.

[@mmerlone]

I have a suggestion: what if, what happens, if you fix the driver on the wall, so the only vibrating part is the panel? At the very first seconds when you started the test, you look really amazed!

[@PJBonoVox]

I'd be interested to see what difference that makes. Nice idea.

[@hxhdfjifzirstc894]

Yeah, or simply make a stand out of 4x4 post or something. Even 2x4s are probably sturdy enough.

[@AmplifyDIY]

I’ve had a lot of people ask about this. I think a new video based on all the feedback is in order!

[@Hermiel]

I was thinking the same thing. On one hand these are almost ideally mechanically decoupled from the structure of the room, which is what you want for a pair of speakers. On the other hand I wonder if affixing the drivers to an inert mass would improve the power output and bass response.

[@markhenry9648]

Was thinking same thing! Plus the rebound effect off the wall may effect sound depth

[@ikonix360]

I took some of those tactile transducers and stuck one each to a drop ceiling tile which sits in a suspended ceiling. One install used 8 transducers on 8 2' X 4' tiles and the other install used 6 transducers on 6 2' X 2' tiles. Both sounded very good.

[@hxhdfjifzirstc894]

That's a very interesting idea... considering that the drop ceiling isn't a free suspension as shown in the video. If it sounds good, IT IS GOOD.

[@dmccorkle9]

Wow!! What an awesome video, you have really made my WEEK! Thank You very much, I have to try this now...

[@spookz4469]

Just out of curiosity i wonder what they would sound like using a dense sound deadening foam... think egg crate or pyramid shapes

[@massv953]

not great, I have tried alot of materials, they work best on things with low density but high strengths, some tonal qualiy to material helps, like balsa wood over foam board or the more tinny sound an aluminum panel makes.

[@spookz4469]

@@massv953 well; in that case lets just say you've got the perfect material at hand for it. I just wonder what that egg crate shape would do for it; 'cause ya know... that shape is used for sound deadening for a reason; but it also makes me wonder if it used a different material so it wouldn't actually "deaden" the sound, but instead it would drive the sound, seeing as sound foam is well.. a foam that isn't too entirely dense. i wonder if it would create a more spacial sound, or maybe bring out some more of the highs and lows. Then again; It also makes me think about what people say about solid body electric guitars; that the shape doesn't really change the sound. But the sound also isn't coming from the body of the guitar, it's coming from the strings and being outputted via the pickups/amp... so in theory i'd think it would make some sort of difference. it may also cause phasing issues or something along those lines. iunno. Just an idea! :)

[@spookz4469]

@@massv953 Another interesting idea might be to think of an acoustic guitar. Maybe something along the lines of a cylinder shape with a decently sized hole on the side you want the sound to come out of. maybe about the size of a paint bucket or something for the hole, then you place the driver(s) on the back. plenty of interesting ideas to be had!

[@geheirnwaeshen]

If you want to improve bass output, add a bit of extra mass to the back of the driver. Other options to try would be adding a layer of fiberglass backing between the foam and driver to help stiffen the panel.

[@xAnAngelOfDeathx]

Just add a subwoofer, trust me you'll be blown away.

[@satibel]

@@xAnAngelOfDeathx I think adding a bass shaker on your seat would be a great way to give you a lot more bass, it makes it feel a lot more powerful because you feel the sound in addition to hearing it, and you can turn the audio a lot lower.

[@sdj9776]

Awesome! Thanks Kimball! Gonna have to try this!

[@thatunknownguy2680]

Try sticking one on each side of a single panel and running one with reverse polarity.

[@AugmentedPixel]

Isn’t that noise canceling?

[@thatunknownguy2680]

@@AugmentedPixel it's a push/pull setup. It'll extend the low end. There shouldn't be any cancellation.

[@bluebaconjake405]

@@thatunknownguy2680 wait, how does it amplify the low end tho? isnt reversing the polarity gonna reverse the sound waves and they cancel each other? Isnt the sound just going to be quieter?

[@ninethirtyone4264]

@@bluebaconjake405 That's what would happen if they were in phase, if you reverse the polarity on one of them they will be in antiphase and the power output will double.

[@thatunknownguy2680]

@@bluebaconjake405 because you have one pushing and the other pulling. Imagine stacking 2 on top of each other. These little exciters move in and out a good bit. Stacking 2 won't work, so you'd have to put one on each side of the panel in reverse polarity. As one is pushing out, the other is pulling in which makes the panel move back and forth. If you place one on each side with the same polarity, then you'll get cancellation.

[@matthewmitchell555]

Thanks dude, been researching these, Louis CK look-a-like for the win

[@1976danger]

Vice Grip Garage hat Nice! I will subscribe.

[@NordicDan]

I'd love to find a direct comparison between this style (built to best conform with say a home theater setting) and high end electrostatic speakers. I'm sure the high end speakers would still win out, but these are intriguing.

[@Vito_Tuxedo]

High end electrostatic speakers are designed for flat response. These foam panel speakers do NOT have flat response. If you watch the Tech Ingredients (TI) videos, you'll see how un-flat they are in the results of his sweep generator tests. He chose to fiddle with transducer placement and combining different panel sizes and materials to line up the peaks of one panel with the troughs of another. So it (kind of balanced) out. Nevertheless, I have no doubt that you could tweak these panels to provide flat response with a 1/3-octave equalizer. And of course, larger panels would extend the low frequency response. TI found that the square panels benefited greatly from the addition of a sub-woofer crossed over at ≤125Hz. I wouldn't use these for studio mix monitors, but then I wouldn't use high-end electrostatics for that purpose either. But for general listening, tweaked with an equalizer, these panel speakers would be awesome.

[@NordicDan]

@@Vito_Tuxedo Interesting! I hadn't seen the videos with the sweep generator tests, so that's new information to me. My electrostatics came into my possession a few years back, but is a complete Martin Logan system (something I could NEVER afford if I hadn't essentially fallen into getting them), so I'll be sticking with those for sure. I love seeing stuff like this made from fairly spartan components though.

[@Vito_Tuxedo]

@@NordicDan Yeah, I feel the same way about my tri-amped Genelec studio monitors (S-30BNF...no longer made). I mix exclusively near-field (the "NF" in the model number) at a comfortable SPL. In that application, monitors with a large surface area wouldn't work. The beauty of large planar radiative surfaces is their ability to move vast quantities of air at low amplitude. I'd bet your system sounds great from across the room, without bleeding the ears of anyone in close proximity to them.

[@howlingcommandose]

Never expect a single flexing panel to reproduce all frequencies as one time, mud does happen. So yes have at least a panel for the subs. If you want all the ranger to you will need 5 boards and 5 driver's. Possibly 3 amps as well. It would also be good to put in a frequency selection circuit for each panel. That way you limit yourself to high mid and low or any combination there in.

[@joelonsdale]

Surely you now have cross-over issues, which is exactly the problem a single driver solves....?

[@howlingcommandose]

@@joelonsdale no just use a frequency splitter you have a driver for each frequency range you use. No dif, then what you have at home now. Just remember this thread is only about getting fuller range. Not putting down the concept. The concept is fine like all that things it has limits.

[@hxhdfjifzirstc894]

THink of how one stringed instrument produces multiple notes at the same time, like an acoustic guitar playing a chord. I would like to see music produced with one channel per instrument, though. Then every instrument could be played back on a separate speaker.

[@NoOne-Home]

Thanks for a straightforward right to the point tutorial

[@AmplifyDIY]

You're welcome!

[@Kreln1221]

*Although it would quadruple the cost of the drivers, it would be an interesting experiment to instead of using only one driver on a relatively small board, to use four drivers on a relatively large board, (connected in series/parallel, to keep the impedance the same as a single driver), and mounted at the node null points of the board, (similar to the node null points on a xylophone or marimba tone bar where its mounting screws are located, so as to minimize board flex at certain resonances.) With this arrangement, you could use very large panels, without worrying that the edge of the board is vibrating any differently or lagging in phase than the areas directly in front of the drivers...*

[@Nbomber]

I just built these, and 1 exciter is best. 2 exciters sounds really good on this video, but in real life it ruins the frequency response

[@johnandjacquelinewarren9979]

@@Nbomber I was reading some information on a website a little while ago that had information about setting up 2 or 4 exciters per panel and they mentioned that it was important not to space them evenly apart because of how the soundwaves will interfere with each other I think. They recommended placing them in a relatively close formation near (but offset from) the center. Not sure if there's a potential layout on a larger panel that would be farther apart without even spacing and still avoid those issues or not.

[@Nbomber]

@@johnandjacquelinewarren9979 that makes a lot of sense actually. I had mine set up 3/5s and centre on each panel. And it was objectively worse. I used an app on my phone to test them (I know, not ideal), and the response curve was quieter across the spectrum, but a lot more spikey too. Also, I found that the bass just rolls off at 120hz. For a 600x600 30mm thick foam panel. So a sub is kinda essential. And not only that, but the treble is really poor. So im going with a couple ribbon tweeters on separate (smaller) foam boards, and some cheap chinese adjustable crossovers. Wanna try to kill off anything below 100hz and split the highs off, to ease up the excess frequencies on the panels. I will say this though, the mid range, sounds fantastic. Like really fantastic. But as a full range speaker, they are terrible on their own.

[@CameronLawson2001]

My uncle was an inventor, and designed many speakers. Many of which were flat panel HiFi designs. However, he built magnet coil diaphragms, much like a traditional cone speaker- except custom built of course, with a flat Kevlar or carbon fiber as the surface material. What’s interesting about this is, his speakers have a very similar effect of “lacking body, too much high range” when playing digital material... despite having a completely different design. The only similarity is the nature of the speaker having a very large, flat, fast response surface area. My uncle would always frown heavily on digital mediums for audiophile playback, saying the signal was very “dirty” and didn’t carry any detail when compared to an analog recording medium. Now, I’m speaking as a professional sound engineer, and I work with digital equipment every day. I’ve researched in depth the nyquist theorem, and all of the reasons digital *should* be better than analog. But when you play an original record from the pre-digital era and compare it to a digital mastering on flat panels, it’s a night and day difference. High quality digital recordings, mastered well, with a good DAC also makes a difference. The biggest difference has been listening to a recording I made of a classical concert, where I recorded simultaneously to 15IPS reel to reel tape, AND to digital. The difference between the two on the flat panels is absolutely ridiculous. I’d be really curious to hear if that difference is also present on this design. Maybe I should build a pair, and carry the torch for my uncle. 😂

[@BottleOfCoke]

Interesting!

[@fablesofsilence]

So what exactly is the difference you are talking about?

[@moonhowler667]

Listening on a professional production PA system. There's not enough presence (certain area of high frequency). I'd assume these would also have plenty of trouble lower than 60hz

[@therealog5332]

This is giving me nostalgic king of random vibes, still can't believe what they did to that channel

[@TheJackOfFools]

What did they do?

[@therealog5332]

@@TheJackOfFools completely changed the concept of the channel from actually useful life hacks to random nonsense and its trash compared to the original content

[@SteelyEyedH]

Anyone have suggestions on what paint you could use? I was thinking maybe plastidip, want to build some for the office, not sure I want massive pink boards though!

[@jasonpavlik4904]

Plastidip would be to heavy and will dampen the vibration. I was thinking about painting them too. If I was to do it I would give them the lightest coat of dollar store flat black. After running them virgin to compare the sound.

[@leestorm]

Use acoustically transparent cloth. you can also have them printed to look like paintings.

[@biketech60]

Maybe, on a spare piece, try black ink for magic marker refills ? Or something from an arts and crafts store ? Shoe dye ?

[@SteelyEyedH]

@@biketech60 black inf is a really good idea I'll try that

[@hxhdfjifzirstc894]

Just use spray paint or whatever.

[@coryernewein]

I seen these years ago, but they never cease to amaze me. Good vidjéo sir!