🔋 How to choose a battery: A battery chemistry tutorial

[@Afrotechmods]

One of my viewers wrote a nice email talking in more detail about lithium battery issues and I thought I would repost it here: Hi, I just thought I'd respectfully chip in some thoughts on your new video. By way of background, I am one of the co-founders of QFE - a battery engineering startup in Hong Kong. We develop proprietary technologies for large battery systems to make them safer, more reliable, more energy dense and more cost effective for OEMs to deploy. Our team is comprised of mechanical, electrical and chemical engineers, and I have recommended your videos to the guys less inclined with electronics to watch in the past. I think one issue which you addressed very well is the fact that the inherent safety of a particular chemistry is less important than how the batteries are used. 100% agreed. Two issues I thought I'd point out: 1. 'Lithium polymer' isn't a specific chemistry, per se. The underlying cathode chemistry of 'lithium polymer' batteries is 'lithium-ion', which is a broad, umbrella term covering lithium + a combination of cobalt, manganese, nickel etc. Lithium polymer refers to batteries of 'lithium-ion' chemistries that are physically packaged in a pouch form factor. 2. Pretty much every battery chemistry out there has the potential to explode or catch fire or do both, if used incorrectly. Even lead acid batteries can explode too, as hydrogen - an explosive gas - can be produced as a side product. Pouch cells are as unprotected of a battery construction as battery constructions get. Sheets of active material loosely contained between two insulating sheets. As an analogy, that's like sticking petrol in plastic bag, tying a knot and using that in your project. Lithium iron phosphate batteries in pouch form can puff up and explode too (noting the distinction between an explosion and a fire). Lithium-ion batteries also come in small cylindrical constructions. These are incredibly safe, for four primary reasons: i) The outer casings are incredibly hard to compromise/pierce. Really, really hard. ii) The shape of the cell makes it difficult for objects to hit the cell perpendicularly; blows are typically, glancing. iii) Unlike pouch cells, all decent small, cylindrical li-ion batteries have a safety vent, which releases the internal pressure of a battery cell in a controlled way, if the pressure builds up to dangerous levels. iv) Decent, small, cylindrical batteries also build in a PTC, effectively disconnecting the battery from an electrical circuit if it gets too hot, hopefully preventing any further damage to the cell. We're fans of small, cylindrical lithium-ion cells for other reasons as well: cost, weight & volumetric energy density, availability etc. Hopefully this is helpful and not spammy. Do please be in touch with me if I can help in any way. Please keep up the great work with the videos - easily the clearest, most easy to understand electronics videos on the internet. Best regards, Brandon Brandon Ng CEO QFE qf-eng.com

[@latebloomer6957]

Thanks for the enlightment...you guys are the greatest ....like edisons sharing your knowledge for the good of the planet

[@NoorquackerInd]

It doesn't show anything?

[@GeoMatRay]

Thanks for posting this e-mail, it cleared up my confusion with Li-ion and Lipo batteries. I've heard other explanations but am inclined to take the word of someone actively working in the industry. As he points out, a battery of any technology can explode or catch fire. A friend of mine was loosening a big lead acid battery's connectors with a long wrench, and while turning the thread of a terminal, he accidentally shorted it. The battery exploded into pieces.

[@rivergodland614]

I just finished watching all your basic electricity videos and I feel like I am finally beginning to actually grasp electrical units. I haven't heard it explained so well anywhere else, thank you so much.

[@DIYPerks]

Do you know of any good circuits that can charge NiMh batteries and automatically stop when finished? I was under the impression that it's quite hard to detect when the battery is full, but it would be super useful to permanently build them into projects rather than relying on an additional charger.

[@OpenGL4ever]

Search for Delta U cutoff.

[@ahmedabdelaalweb]

🤯 When you randomly stumble upon an 8 years old comment from your Guru @DIYPerks on another channel. Keep up the wonderful work guys. You’re a great inspiration. I’m grateful for all the invaluable knowledge you freely hand out to us. Thank you both

[@KrisBlueNZ]

NiCd cells are deprecated because cadmium is a problem in the waste stream and prohibited by RoHS. AFAIK SLA batteries are nowadays called VRLA (valve-regulated lead-acid). Battery capacity specifications in eBay advertisements are often exaggerated. Very useful video!

[@MephistoRolling]

you definitely have the most useful tech vids.

[@DimitriPappas]

tech is a very broad term... not too sure about that

[@MephistoRolling]

yeah wasnt sure what term to use when i wrote it, but i definitely find them the most useful for when i am making stuff.

[@MrOpenGL]

Nickel-cadmium are also very good at performing in very cold weather, have their output voltage quite stable during discharge (in contrast with for instance alkalines and lead-acid) and can put out serious currents (20A for a small AA battery!)! I love them!!

[@DerZorroCat]

What an adorable intermission.

[@ruveeda]

I absolutely love this channel... The videos are informative and fun to watch at the same time... thanks man....

[@chawkzero]

That was supremely awesome and helpful. I've always wondered about the various battery types, including the oddballs like NiCd. Thank you for the video!

[@Afrotechmods]

Interested in learning about wireless power? Subscribers can get up to 80% off my course Wireless Power to the People - Wireless Charging 101 on udemy using the coupon code "KZbin" www.udemy.com/wireless-power-to-the-people-wireless-charging-101/?couponCode=KZbin

[@lfcbpro]

tutorial after battery options was a really good help, thanks

[@mrnikku6381]

afrotechmod.............your explanation is really very awesome ......keep it up

[@Caleb5761]

Very high production quality. Very informative. You just earned my sub!

[@Cryptovariable]

Thank you for captioning your videos.

[@difacilprojects6676]

Love your videos! very easy to understand even with my not high level of english, regards from Spain!

[@xvillin]

Nickel cadmium batteries are used quite a bit on aircraft because the batteries provide the starter motor with electricity. These are quite hefty starters and nickel cadmium batteries can provide consistent voltage till they are almost drained. However, many people are starting to go over to lithium ion.

[@gorursuresh4246]

Excellent tutorial,thanks

[@SurvivalLilly]

What about Li-Ion batteries?

[@Afrotechmods]

They are almost identical to Li-Po, just slightly less energy density so a little bigger/heavier for the same capacity.

[@MCinO11]

almost all of li-Ion batteries are low drain so yeah, if ur gonna draw 20-40 amps safely you're gonna have to buy expensive Li-Ion chemistries

[@ForViewingOnly]

Excellent video Afrotech, it taught me exactly what it promised to teach. Thank you. As a suggestion for a future video, could you explain converting (modding) circuits from Alkaline/Ni-Cad-powered to Lithium-powered? As a simple example, an LED torch that runs on 3 AAA batteries - how to modify it to run on an 18650 cylindrical li-ion battery, bearing in mind that (so I've been told) using an Li-Ion could overheat the LED due to internal resistance/current differences. Thanks.

[@movax20h]

You only looked at rechargable batteries. For non rechargable stuff, most people use Alkaline or Zinc Carbon batteries, but for very long term operations (small self discharge), high energey density (very high), or operation in harsh temperatures, I would recommend looking into Lithium Thionyl Chloride (LTC) chemistry. It has a lot of advantages, and are on average 3-8 time better than alkaline in many applications (especially low power or periodic pulsed power situations). In fact they do have higher energy density than Lithium-ion or Lithium-polymer batteries. Also bundling Lithium-ion and LiPo batteries in one category is a mistake. They are quiet different, as the first one denote ones with liquid electrolyte, and second with polymer membrane. They do have vastly different properties in general.

[@proyectosledar]

My bike has a lifepo4 and has electric start. works well for now. Have a video of it.

[@jeronimomurruni]

Proyectos LED Every video I go, every video I see you. :D

[@ilike600baud]

Posted on the Hackaday blog! Congrats!

[@balazsklezli5702]

really cool video :) thanks for sharing it!

[@Bylga]

Another awesome video!

[@patriotbarrow]

2:49 Quite glad to see a Romanian battery in a clip. :)

[@BegovNorbert]

Same thing i had in mind :)))

[@AidanGieg]

Never been this early to see your video!

[@tanmaychandak8314]

glad i could make it this early too.

[@endoscopisis]

excellent tutorial

[@ryharpon]

Another great vid! Thanks!

[@matthewludivico1714]

Great guide

[@DimasHaryoGustama]

thumbs up for michael bay's explosion joke. i used regular Li-Ion 18650 cell for projects, it's quite good, cheap, and easy to get. more energy than Ni-MH like Eneloops, etc.

[@caseybalvert7161]

Great info. I always find your videos informative. Thanks.

[@power-max]

The memory effect for NiCds does not really exist unless you consistently and always only discharge it to the same point (within 1% tolerance) many, many times. It was actually NASA that noticed this with drills they used for some missions. (They noticed that after many hundreds of cycles, the batteries mysteriously lost capacity to the point it they were being discharged to.) I believe it is also possible to undo it.

[@OpenGL4ever]

I never had good experiences with NiCds. They always run out of energy very fast directly after loading. Later i found out in the newspaper why -> memory effect.-

[@power-max]

OpenGL4ever The "memory effect" is more-or-less complete BS, a very popular myth surrounding it. It originated from NASA research with purposely oversized batteries being discharged consistently to a particular SoC (State of Charge). The real problem with NiCds is self-discharge, weight, environmental concerns (nasties can be found inside them), weight, low capacity, and short lifetime due to formation of sulphur crystals internally. This last one can be fixed by jolting the battery with a huge pulse of current.

[@seifamgad9568]

This was very helpful. Thanks

[@nihalrevankar5658]

Thank you for this video!

[@thejo6331]

More so than weight, I thought that overall energy density was the main driving factor behind Li-Po battery packs. It's not just that they're lighter, it's that they fit into a MUCH smaller form factor for the same amount of energy storage. This, to my knowledge, is why mobile device engineers prefer them.

[@justinp4235]

I have a few phone batteries lying about, and I wanted to know how would I go about charging them without them blowing up. Can I just straightup connect the phone charger to the battery or would I need to build a protection circuit?

[@giomjava]

Beautiful!! learned a lot! Thanks!

[@jwcrawley]

Great video. Perhaps you could touch on NiFe batteries for home power storage?

[@35o125]

I have a device from which the new batteries are leaking after an hour of use. Namely 'smarty pad', 4 x AA batteries. Would you know why, and if it could be fixed? thanks.

[@vivekshettigar8051]

great tutorial.....can you please provide some insights on Lithium Titanate batteries as well, in comparison with the others mentioned in the video...thanks..

[@risebug3]

Great guide.. Thanks!

[@surajjanampally7023]

5 star rating for this one

[@piotrlobacz]

Afrotechmods what involves building own Li-ion cell charger? Would you do video about it? Do protection circuits on Web site you've provided are actually church and discharge protection circuits or just discharge?

[@caterscarrots3407]

I have heard of rechargeable alkaline batteries. What's up with that? Is that another way of phrasing Nickel Metal Hydride batteries or is it Alkaline battery chemistry without the "you can't fully recharge a dead battery, only get closer, and even that is theoretical" part of it?

[@trench01]

What about making a hybrid nickel cadmium battery could be good if they had a circuit that would not allow you to recharge it unless it was fully drained and the charger would lock it in until till it was fully charged, If someone needed to charge the battery while 1/2 charged the circuit would have a button to make it drain fast or recharge a 2nd battery attached with it as a reserve that would help in the efficiency. Also what about the super capacitors that some use for batteries with special circuits that act like batteries? Aren't those considered the best type since they say electric cars use them? I was wondering fi one of your videos has clues on how to make it which I kind of remember something like that when watching your voltage regulator videos.

[@OpenGL4ever]

@6:26 @Afrotechmods Can't i just put a big capacitor in parallel to get along with the peak amps?

[@siddharthdhamaskar3953]

can you make a video on how to build a LiPo battery charging-discharging circuit?

[@berthold64]

If I want to build portable power supply with your buck converter in the previous video, what battery should I use? The load might be around 5V @ 1.5A. cheers

[@twopiecez5226]

Will it be okay if change my 3amp motorcycle battery to 6amp same size battery?

[@jordanalexo550]

Great video. I have a question, why do lithium batteries commonly found in cellphones seem to get easily addicted if you don't fully use them before you recharge each time? I thought they didn't have that memory problem you mentioned. Thanks

[@RX7GSLSEowner]

So I spent some time on batteryspace.com looking for a Lithium Ion Phosphate (LiFePO4) battery to power a hand held device. However every battery I found had this warning in the description: "This pack is for testing (prototype) only. It has not been UN38.3 tested yet." When I read further, it referred to UN shipping requirements. It also stated that this testing was available but was expensive. Batteryspace is only testing popular, non-custom battery packs at this time. So. The question is: right now I'm in the final stages of development, so the testing thing is ok. But when I go into production, I don't want to have the high expense of a UN38.3 test. At least not all on my own. So what options do we have? Just use a different type of battery instead, say NiMH?

[@MegaMechatronics]

For the lithium batteries, we should add discharge rate as a pro.

[@hondaguy9153]

watt hours/gram you can actually get li-ion batteries that store nearly twice as much energy as li-po batteries. the down side is the low C rating on the li-ion.

[@101AOK]

Nice job

[@HavokTheorem]

Afro, isn't another concern for SLA batteries that they contain.. yknow, lead and sulfuric acid? Maybe not a concern for those small sealed ones, but the battery terminals around cars are often corroded or caked up with sulfate salts from leaking battery acid.

[@biturboism]

YES! Thank you!

[@radheshvideo]

Hi, Can you please shed more light on the different types of Lead Acid batteries. You are talking more about SLA's but we have the Tubular ones, the traditional ones which require distilled water top ups...., There is also a construction difference between the ones that are used for automobiles and ones used for power storage (Deep Discharge)

[@yosefmacgruber1920]

What about super-capacitors for applications, such as replacing the car battery? According to some YT video that I watched, somebody replaced his old car battery, with a in-series bank of super-capacitors, it worked just fine, and it was a fraction of the size and weight of a car battery.

[@Aleks6010]

expensive

[@ahmadnab7969]

For a device consume 20Amp 12V what type of battery do you recommend as for portable device?

[@600guy]

Do you know if a lithium or alkaline battery's self discharge rate increases once the battery has been used? Does regular use of a battery impact the self discharge rate (vs. a battery sitting on a shelf)?

[@Zebra_Paw]

For LiPo we never discharge under 3V in use but to damage it you have to discharge it under 2.5V. Ni-Mh batteries have memory effect!

[@belalshehadeh1876]

What is the best type of batteries to operate a Thermoelectric module (TEC1-12706) ?

[@commanderofficial6903]

hey man,how can i charge an old laptop lithium ion battery which has a voltage of 3.1v when i took it out.(i know normally they have 3.7v)

[@MatheusLeston]

great stuff!

[@dftdoods]

I have an ebike with battery ni-mh 24v- 3.1ah. Can i convert the battery and use lead acid battery?

[@OpenGL4ever]

@Doods T. Do you have a clue how heavy those lead acid batteries are? I would stick with NiMH this type is far better then lead acid. The only exception is, if you live in an area of very low temperatures below 0 °C. NiMH batteries don't like that. But in this case, you better should search for Lithium Titanate batteries. They weight much less than lead acid batteries, can store more energy and work at temperatures below to -40 °C. But they need a battery management system and are a little expensive.

[@OpenGL4ever]

@5:35 I disagree on that. They don't have Lithium Titanate batteries.

[@davidgogelein8392]

@4:40 expensive isn't a pro argument for the lithium cells :D anyway nice and informative video

[@BegovNorbert]

That awkward moment when you are from Romania, and the example for a lead-acid battery is a Rombat Cyclon

[@mr.simulator4724]

+Begov Norbert u should ask him why did he use this particular battery, i also know Romanian.

[@sdj7122]

Hello neighbors. Have you ever heard for Black Horse lead acid batteries. It is from my country :)

[@Gohjunyi88]

Afrotechmods Hi, may I ask the amphere rating or C rating of 4 eneloop pro connect in series ? Was deciding between this config with a 1000mAh Li-Po @ 15C. not sure whether the eneloop would be enough to drive my dual motor project.

[@Afrotechmods]

Check out the datasheets of the eneloop pros. www.panasonic-eneloop.eu/home/technology/data-sheets.html The one I saw had an implied max current rating of 5000mA.

[@Gohjunyi88]

5A is perfect for the motors, but for that rate, it would maintain at about 1.1V each. not sure if 4.4V would be too low to drive the motor speed up. big thanks! appreciate.

[@h0lx]

Another great thing about lead acids is their huge current capability, think a hundred amps for a car starter ;)

[@pcfreak1992]

So "expensive" is a Pro for LiFePO4 and LiPo? ;-)

[@Afrotechmods]

FUCK! Talk about a typo!!!!!

[@pcfreak1992]

Afrotechmods it's not just a typo, it's also the color, so there was more than just a mistype ;-)

[@Xenro66]

Afrotechmods Ahhh that's alright, just plater an annotation over it xD

[@Afrotechmods]

Annotated.

[@powerwall]

lifepo4 is expensive but worth for it. cycle life is longer. but it is better to use the BMS for lithium battery

[@alecw7063]

What kind of battery does a gopro use? Planning on buying a spare

[@772CODEMASTER]

A&V Productions Look it up, I think most go pros use a NiMh batteries, but you have to look at the specs on the page.

[@andiyladdie3188]

I like the intermission :)))

[@DavidisDawei]

I enjoy your videos - Thanks! Have you worked with any good alternatives to the battery? Batteries are almost always the "weak link" (most limiting variable) over time

[@OpenGL4ever]

Fuel cells, a diesel engine or super capacitors might be an alternative to batteries.

[@TheSwissGabber]

Nice video, only thing missing is the number of cycles.

[@j-roadtrip1244]

thanks for this video :)

[@GButtersX]

Tutorial on building protection circuits?

[@MrCaliforniaD]

How did you measure the peak current of 1.1A?

[@thundafundamentalist]

1:50 WIthout the Michal Bay Explosion!

[@ArnavDhamija]

Are LiPos suitable for high altitude balloon projects?

[@OpenGL4ever]

No. It's too cold up there for normal LiPos. They would die at those temperatures. But you can take a look at Lithium Titanate batteries they will work at temperatures down to -40 °C. They have a lower energy density than LiPOs and are much more expensive but they weight much less than lead acid batteries and can store more energy then lead acid batteries. The biggest downside might be the price and availability. Search for AltairNano or Tiankang, they produce them. An alternative to this might be to temperate the battery case and use thermal insulation for the case. That's what NASA and ESA do on their solar power based Mars rovers.

[@wb5rue]

Can the Panasonic eneloop batteries be recharged in a standard NiMH charger?

[@Afrotechmods]

wb5rue yes

[@volodumurkalunyak4651]

+wb5rue every nimh battery can be charged in any nimh charger suitable for this battery size and voltage ( if you have more than 1 cell in series )

[@OpenGL4ever]

Yes. The only thing you should never do is recharging a NiMH battery in a very old NiCD charger. They will kill the NiMH battery.

[@Xenro66]

Man, I love your channel so much.... I'm really tempted to become a patreon of your channel, but I have no money (for myself) at the moment :(

[@doobleshoodle]

You forgot to cover the most popular ones (Li-ion). I know they are very similar to Li-Po, but you should have at least mentioned them ! Oh well, thanks anyways. :)

[@richardlighthouse5328]

Li-ion is basically same as Li-Po

[@creeper073]

li-ion charger circuit tutorial pls :D Love your videos very informative and understandable :)

[@TheOswald42]

so buy bunch of panasonic eneloops, and ram them together to provide adequate power source except for devices that are design to be small and lightweight

[@11rmax95]

My iPhone battery's life has gone down a lot since I bought it 18 months ago. I thought that had to do with battery memory? But you're saying LiPo batteries don't have a memory effect?

[@Afrotechmods]

+Robert Maxson All batteries have a finite amount of times that they can be recharged. You can expect a lipo battery like your iPhone's to lose about 20% capacity per year depending on usage and temperature.

[@OpenGL4ever]

@Afrotechmods LiPo batteries loose also capacity just by age. You even don't have to use them, they just age and loose capacity.

[@OpenGL4ever]

@Robert Maxson You can extend the life of a LiPO battery by using them the right way. Never recharge them to full capacity if they are only at >= 30 % charge level. First wait until they fall below 30 % charge level, then load them. If you know from the begging that you won't use your battery for a couple of months, then store them at a charged level of between 20-40 %. Don't store them at > 90 % when fully loaded. If you store them, make sure that they don't fall below 10 % charging capacity. If they do, reload them to a level were storage is okay -> 20-40 %. If you use the battery regularly but still want to extend battery life, than only load them not above 90 % charge level, this will extend battery life. If you go to 100 % then make sure that you use that extra energy directly after loading. And one more hint. Don't buy devices that don't let you insert new batteries.

[@mr.actiongal1017]

good stuff

[@bosem80]

i used my old mobile battery on my xbox controller, now its been 3 months i never recharges it, in case i need to recharge i got universal charger that can be use for any mobile battery

[@saibhakt1465]

nice video ... interesting 👍

[@brandonl9362]

Brilliant! I love your videos! Informative and entertaining, and I'm not even a cat person.

[@zaphodb777]

Don't forget LSD (Pre-Charged) NiMh are incredibly tough, and more forgiving of overcharge, and over discharge than normal NiMh, due to their thicker separator.

[@flavortown3781]

So if I had a 18s10p 18650 cell pack how would I determine how many amps I can draw from my pack?

[@antonw.415]

It's a little late and my english is not the best, but i'll try to explain: the main parameter you need to know is the C-rating, or better the maximum ampere-outage each cell can provide. For example: if you have a battery with a C-rating of 10C an the capacity is 2000mah, the battery can provide 20 amps for 6 minutes. Then you can multiply it with the number of cells you have in parallel and there's your rating :-)

[@DarrenC_1024]

How to chews a battery: Pikachu's diet digest.

[@aakhileshh]

can you please tell how does a mobile phone charger steps down voltage without using transformer?

[@nextstorming3908]

PWM

[@somedude4122]

NO

[@dipensinjali4641]

thanks

[@renatobarbosa7438]

so which would be the best for a remot control?

[@renatobarbosa7438]

I mean Tv

[@noob1138]

You mean like a battery-powered 40" inch LCD TV? Then you must have huge capacity atleast.

[@renatobarbosa7438]

i meant tv remote control

[@qoo5333]

Take your pick. To super simplify it: Standard alkaline batteries are easiest to find and have the lowest self-discharge. Meaning they drain the slowest when stored or not being used for extended periods like a remote (on the order of years). Ni-MH/Ni-Cad can supply large loads and have the advantage of being rechargeable but they self-discharge a lot faster than alkaline's (several months) meaning they have to be recharged regularly. They also have a lower rated voltage but should not affect most TV remotes. Lithium batteries (not Lithium-Ion) provide low self-discharge, high drain output high capacity but at the cost of higher price. Lithium-ion rechargeable batteries have high capacity and high drain stability among other things but are not normally available in standard alkaline sizes and also produce over twice the voltage (rated for 3.7V but closer to 4.2V fully charged). 14500 Li-Ion batteries being one of the few, are about the same size as AA alkaline's but the higher voltage would cause damage to most TV remotes.

[@OpenGL4ever]

@Renato Barbosa If you want rechargeable batteries for your TV remote control, then use NiMH batteries with a low self-discharge rate. Sanyo/Panasonic Eneloop batteries will suit this job perfectly. But if you can life with none rechargeable batteries, than stick to normal 1,5 V Alkaline batteries. NiCd are a very bad choice. They are harmful when leaking and they tend to leak. They are also not very usefull in a TV remote control. They have a lower capacity than NiMH and no advantages in that area. The only good thing about NiCd is that they can be discharged with much more Amperes than NiMH but you won't need that for a TV remote control. TV remote controls don't drain a lot of energy. Lithium batteries are out of scope. Their voltage is above 3 V and thus not suitable for your TV remote control that assumes usually 1-2 AA(A) batteries at 1,2,-1,5 V each. It's possible to convert the TV remote control to a one suitable for Lithium batteries, but it is not worth the time and money.

[@jacobedwards9706]

Why is it that the NiMH batteries for RC cars go bad if they fully discharge and then sit for a long time?

[@OpenGL4ever]

If a NiMH drops below 1 V they die. The same applies to NiCd batteries. And LiPOs should not drop below 3 V. So always make sure that your NiMH are between 1,0 and 1,35 V. The same applies to your NiCD.

[@kwinzman]

What is the batteryspace.com equivalent for the EU?

[@xboxlive6]

Shipping companies specificity don't like lithium batteries. So getting them delivered to a country that doesn't manufacture lithium batteries can be quite a hassle.

[@bryansiepert9222]

I miss your content :\