How to choose your Astrophotography mount! Starting astrophotography for lazy people, Ep 6

[@CitizenSniiiips]

If there are any beginners in the comments wanting to ask questions about mounts PLEASE ask me here. I have struggle through the problems of a second hand mount that Cuiv is referring to here which has made me pretty knowledgeable in how they work (taking them apart and rebuilding) but trust me, you don't to do it this way. So if you're thinking about getting a mount please ask!!!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks for offering that Daniel - pinning the comment.

[@MethiasZa]

I was thinking about it. One of our local telescope shops has a few 2nd hand mounts and i've been looking at them. We've have a sucky time getting anything telescope related as the shipping and import costs almost double the prices of new mounts. Trying to find if the mounts are good enough for my needs and get something that can carry loads of the telescopes I would like to upgrade to into the future.

[@CitizenSniiiips]

​@@MethiasZa So with careful inspection a second hand mount can be great, but there will always be risks. Some things to think about to minimise the risks. 1. where has the mount lived most of it's life? If they were a serious imager with a dome or some sort of observatory you can expect that mount to be in great condition. If it lived outside, that can be OK BUT do they live somewhere very cold? Do they live somewhere coastal/salty. If there is any visible rust anywhere on the mount I would be concerned. Lastly, are they the sole owner or has there been multiple? I'd stick to a single owner for sure. Another good idea is buying second hand from someone in an astro group. Usually smaller groups who know each other well and are trustyworthy and reliable. 2. When it comes to brands, each have their own pro's and cons. Personally I like skywatcher and ioptron. The centre balanced ioptron mounts are very cool. If you can find a second hand of the EQ6 (not too old though!) or a CEM40 that has been looked after well definitely consider, with proper care these mounts can last a decade easily. Other brands like celestron also make great mounts, but I don't know too many with them so can't comment too well. The one thing I will say is if you can find a belt driven mount this will almost always be a better option then a geared mount. If you are a bit handy you can also consider getting a mount like the HEQ5 and belt modding it yourself. Working on mounts seems daunting, but they are actually quite simple bits of kit ironically. There is a wealth of information out there on how to hypertune/belt mod mounts. 3. It's always better to get the absolute best mount you can, if you're a few hundred dollars short of the next model up. WAIT. Being patient here and spending more money does help. This is a rare instance where buying better gear does make your results better. Mounts aren't like cameras, a great photographer can take a fantastic photo on a crap camera but if you're mount is lower quality and doesn't do what you want it to do to you will want to quit the hobby. This will also help future proof you when you do want that big newtonian or heavy refractor. 4. Finally, I'll reiterate what Cuiv said. If you want to go second hand. Ask for a RECENT PHD2 guide log. These are simple to acquire and if the person doesn't want to do this I'd be suspicious. If possible you could even request a guide log with corrections and without corrections. Without corrections will show you the periodic error. If you can check the mount itself, definitely give both RA and DEC a wobble back and forth to check for any excessive backlash. If you can power the mount up and do a full rotation of each axis listening/looking carefully for any binding. If it speeds up/slows down quickly or the pitch of the motor changes this could indicate a binding problem. Long term binding issues like this end up damaging the ring gear as they're only aluminium while the worm is brass. Damage to the ring gear is irreversible. Also rotate each axis manually by hand with the clutches loose. Feel for "stickiness" most mounts unfortunately are made using pretty crap grease (I'm looking at you skywatcher!) over time these tacky greases just get worse. Again, if you're handy. You can hypertune your mount. People send them away for hundreds of $$$ but it is doable yourself. You can take an under performing mount and give it a new lease on life with a strip, clean, re-grease and bearing replacement. Hope this helps!

[@MethiasZa]

@@CitizenSniiiips Ye thanks. Thankfully nowhere in this country is really cold and we 100% don't leave our mounts outside here (things get stolen way to often here to do so) and I stay very far away from and salt water (and the mount owner is nearby me). The mount is an older CGEM DX mount that has been recently hypertuned. I would love to get something like an EQ6 but here we will pay roughly US$2700 for the EQ6-R mount. The CGEM DX mount (2nd hand one) with the hypertune is roughly $1450. With its 50lbs load - so 25lbs for imaging should give me a fair bit of flexibility to but a range of scopes on it from small refractors up to a RASA 8" or an explora scientific ED127 APO. And thanks, good point about the PHD2 info, will try and get that to see how its managing (PLus also what was on at he time, I would imagine less weight would be easier to guide and get better graphs for vs having it loaded at 25lbs where problems might come in) Unfortunately none of the local astro groups (I've been bugging them for around 4 months now for mounts for sale) are selling any other bigger mounts (there are Celestron AVX and HEQ5 mounts for sale). iOpteron mounts are incredibly hard to get here as well, local dealers are battling to get prices from iOpteron and they wont ship to me directly unless I use the dealer, plus then shipping and taxes destroys the price again and adds about $1000 to the price quoted on the iOpteron website.

[@jkrahl]

Know anything about the Celestron AVX mount? Specifically, I just bought one (2 years old) and I'm seeing comments re: needing to upgrade the drive/gears in some way - any clue if this is actually necessary?

[@davidaylsworth8964]

The auto focus shifts made your even fuzzier. The wardrobe change and slicked back hair at 27:50 ‘almost’ went unnoticed. Love the content. This is really valuable information for folks to know. Although I’ve already got a great mount for my needs (CGEM-DX) I found this video to be very valuable. Keep up the good work.

[@JohnMcGFrance]

The variability point is very true. I have 2 Sky-Watcher mounts. And one is much better than the other, though with pec training and good guiding they both work fine. I would also really stress that mounts can be very heavy. If you are going to be assembling/disassembling every time you use it think carefully about this. A small refractor on a lighter mount that you enjoy using is far better than a large SCT on a really heavy duty mount that breaks your back every time you want to image and ends up sitting in a garage gathering dust.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

That's a very good point - mounts are massive and really heavy, heavier and more massive than many beginners realize. I remember thinking how big and heavy the Celestron AVX was to me, and then seeing people on astro forums refer to it as "a little lightweight mount". Like whaat? And exactly, the equipment you actually use is the best. I will make sure to mention this in another video.

[@bmur56]

Job well done Cuiv. You gave a lot of very pertinent information in a nicely flowing and logical way. From this viewer's perspective you obviously have a vast practical knowledge that makes your presentation look easy, but I suspect there may be more work involved than it appears! I knew about most of what you were talking about but there will be a few aspects of my set-up that I will revisit. (Balance, tripod stability for example). Anyway, I enjoy your presentations hope you know that your enthusiasm does infect some viewers. Salut de Montréal !

[@prabhakarrao4922]

All points covered extremely well with fairness. Thank you for this presentation.

[@andyweeks2216]

You really explained this very well. I especially liked your treatment of the importance of spending money on the mount. Thanks again!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks for the feedback! I was worried I wasn't stressing it enough: the mount is the most important part of the whole thing!

[@MethiasZa]

Thanks for this. Its helped confirmed what i need to look for in a mount to get into the hobby. I've been doing a lot of research on forums and videos to try and find something that would suit what I would like to do in the hobby

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Excellent, I'm glad this is helpful!

[@dragonryder88]

Very nice explanation. I learned more about astrophotography from the first ten minutes of this video than I have learned from other sources. Thank you Cuiv.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Awesome to hear, glad this is helpful!

[@massimo541]

An other really useful video! Many thanks

[@yosmith1]

so much information to digest...Thanks for all the detail

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Indeed... I am trying to express it in the simplest possible way, but it is hard! I hope it is useful though!

[@thefourgrapples2810]

In my humble opinion, I would go with the shaggy dew. Love your videos, very helpful.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thank you :-)

[@cryptoalchemist10minutes44]

I just replaced my EQ6 Pro with a belt driven EQ6-R Pro it has many benefits as well like the handle and being new and having a warranty of course. Tracking RMS best over 1 hour is 350 and worst is 780 RMS so nice round stars. Can't go wrong for the bang for the buck with a eq6.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

It is indeed a great mount, and there seems to be very few lemons for that mount too! I really, really like it! Enjoy it :)

[@j1will]

Excellent and very educational Cuiv. I have a new iOptron CEM40EC and there was a comment in Cloudy Nights from someone that owns more than one of the iOptron mounts that he recommended I verify the SDE to make sure my copy was performing well. My question: What is SDE? How do you test SDE so you know how well your mount is actually performing?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Aha, that's unique to mounts with encoders - SDE is Sub-divisional error . It's a cyclical error introduced by attempting to interpolate beyond the resolution of the encoders: resources.renishaw.com/en/download/white-paper-the-accuracy-of-angle-encoders--24170 . This is one of the reasons I've been avoiding encoders on mounts, since I am guiding anyway. How to test for SDE, I have no idea however. It could be using something like PEMPro to record worm cycles, and in the FFT screen looking for a specific frequency that is characteristic of SDE, but that's just me guessing...

[@Miguel_Noppe]

Great video for the beginner looking for a mount Cuiv ! I've got the EQ6R-pro for 2 years now and it is very good, guiding trough an OAG @ 840mm (Esprit120) @ an average RMS of 0,5 pix/arc", i can't ask for more. Have got the EQM35 pro for a short time, but it was a disaster, maybe a one off, i don't know, i've sent it back and bought a HEQ5 pro with the Rowan belt mod instead, but it still needs first light so 🤞. Bonne journée !

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks for the feedback AstroDude! I've seen some good things about the EQM35, but then mount lottery... We shouldn't have to hope to get a good sample when we buy something, but it is the way of things... Merci!

[@itaialter]

Eventually, I decided to just dip my toes in the astrophotography ocean and ordered an iOptron SkyGuider Pro to see what I can do with 135mm / 200mm lenses (instead of going knee-deep with a HEQ5-Pro and an Evostar 80ED). I will probably add a mini auto-guider later on, and if I decide to go knee-deep in the future, I'll move the auto-guider there. Can't wait for the SkyGuider to arrive! I'm not too worried about finding celestial objects in the sky, since I did manage to frame Bode's galaxy perfectly with a manual dobsonian in my camera (of course, it was just a bulb of faded light in the picture) under heavy light pollution using star-hopping from the finder-scope + while visually checking with Stellarium :) Keep up the cool vids! Hopefully I'll be able to be lazier in the future!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Good luck with the SkyGuider Pro - I used to have it a few years ago! It's not so much the star hopping that bothered me, but more the lack of finder (at the time) on top of my camera lens, and the difficulty of precisely moving the RA and the DEC axis without destroying polar alignment. I found that it took me quite some time to center targets, and once I was done, my polar alignment was off :( It definitely works though! Good luck and I hope you'll get clear skies once it arrives!

[@itaialter]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks for the heads-up. I'm also a bit concerned about moving the axis without destroying polar alignment, but it will have to do for now :)

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

@@itaialter That's the spirit! It did work quite well, especially when guided :-)

[@woody5109]

Can you review the new skywatcher GTi please ?

[@phcalama]

Your tripod looks quite short. Do you have the legs retracted? In general, do you recommend doing so in order to reduce wind load?

[@cryptoalchemist10minutes44]

I forgot to say thanks for a another really great video. Got lots of content out of this.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Glad it is helpful :)

[@Fam2014Ch]

Hi there buddy... as we "know" the best idea is to keep the counterweight as close to the mount as possible... but the EQ6-R include a shaft extension tube for it (which I never use) ... do you think there is a good reason for that? just wondering... and again Thanks for the video !! (London keeps cloudy... aghhhhh sniff...)

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Well yes, in theory you want to keep more weight higher up the shaft. Astro-Physics has good documentation about that here: astro-physics.info/tech_support/accessories/mounting_acc/balance-to-optimize-guiding.pdf . But then there is simply the matter of not owning that many counterweights, or CWs too high on the shaft snagging onto some equipment or cables, etc. So I think SW includes that extension shaft to simply provide more flexibility with the limited number of CWs that come with it. I hope you get clear skies soon! It's cloudy here as well!

[@tycho_escher]

Hi, continuing to enjoy your information filled videos. Do you have a link to the tripod (base) spreader that you higlighted in your video?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I found the link! Here it is: tpiastro.com/spreaders.htm ! If you email them, they will build one just for your tripod, as needed.

[@rachel7550]

So for my very first mount I’m thinking of getting the Ioptron gem28 ec , moderate range in cost, seems like it might be easier for a newb… but idk, I’ve heard mixed reviews on it. I have a Sony a7r4, 70-200 f2.8 lense and 100-400 lense I’d probably use to start before getting an Astro camera later on. Do you think this would be a good choice for me?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

On the mount, there's always some variability at this price range. If you do buy the GEM28, I'd go for the one without the EC (at this price range, EC it's really a gimmick, especially at 200-300mm and if you autoguide). Ideally lenses should be prime lenses, but some Zoom lenses can do very well - you'll likely see some distortion and chromatic aberration wide open so you'll probably want to stop down to F4 for instance. As for the camera, this will work great for now!

[@rachel7550]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek I’m guessing you can autoguide without the ec then? Thanks for the advice!!!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

@@rachel7550 absolutely, yes

[@rachel7550]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek awesome good to know… also sorry but second question, I have no clue which telescope I’ll want, should I try for the gem45 in case I need that extra capacity or should the 28 be good for most? Thanks!!!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

@@rachel7550 I can't really say since I haven't used the CEM40, but in general you want to buy as much mount as you can afford - so if you can afford it, I'd go for that instead. Another very popular and reliable mainstay in the hobby (which I also use) is the Skywatcher EQ6R, but it is very heavy!

[@SmeeUncleJoe]

Did you tell us what model that is and I missed it ? EQ6-R Pro perhaps ?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yep!

[@tzevatresat2268]

I have a ioptron CEM60EC and i have never used EQMOD. Can i use EQMOD with my mount ? Good job by the way i like your videos especially the ones on NINA. Thanks.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

OOOh that is a very nice mount that you have! As far as I know, EQMOD only works with SkyWatcher mounts. With iOptron mounts you need to go through iOptron Commander and the Ascom driver - so no EQMOD. Still, I haven't heard any particularly bad things about iOptron's ASCOM drivers....

[@tzevatresat2268]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks for the info, i'm watching all your videos. They are very technical and i like it. I'm a technical person too . I like details. Keep up the good work.

[@Jason-qt8bm]

Keep up the great content!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thank you! Will do :)

[@javiercuellolopez5610]

Great video Cuiv. What do you prefer, Eq6Rpro Vs CEM 40?. Thanks

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I've never tried the CEM40, so I can't tell you anything there, sorry!

[@akthethotboi9711]

What’s the cheapest goto Astro photography mount

[@jeanclementstgelais3226]

You dont have a ZWO ASI Air Pro ?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

No, the ZWO ASI Air Pro still doesn't have auto-focus capabilities at this stage (although I hear it's being tested), and that's a deal-breaker for me. I currently use N.I.N.A. ( nighttime-imaging.eu/ ) which is free, but more importantly open-source, which means I've been able to add features I needed, something I cannot do with ASI Air. ASI Air also doesn't support synchronized dithering for the dual-scope setup I currently use... Additionally, I can synchronize my imaging PC data with my processing PC in real time, which again can't be done with the ASI Air ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/eIWVaHl3a5hpiaM) . ASI Air is extremely interesting to me, but it doesn't have the features I need yet!

[@jesuschrist2284]

Thank god for auto play im too lazy to press play next video in playlist ;)

[@justinhendrickson3133]

That was a quick shower.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Blink of an eye shower :p

[@IvandowsOS]

Autofocus in camera is a great evil.

[@olly7248]

Did you just wake up❓

[@micht6888]

If you are a beginner and earn a average wage. Walk away from this hobby. Its a money pit you will never be able to escape. Seriously, walk away.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

That's true too!