Understanding AUTO-GUIDING, and what to look for! Starting astrophotography - for lazy people ep 7!

[@georgeanderson2316]

Thank you, Cuiv, for supporting our expensive hobby.

[@jesuschrist2284]

Woa there george, im not sure we're ready to invade exoplanets yet ;)😊 Maybe if we could control the invasion from a sofa. Oops spoiled avatar 6 plot, sorry :(

[@MrPedalpaddle]

REAL lazy geeks image at f/2 with Hyperstar or RASA, with no auto guider. But, thank you for not being too lazy and producing these great videos!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Long term laziness would indeed get me to the RASA or Hyperstar, but I'm too wary of so many things about those setups, from collimation to taking flats, to properly using filters (I want an automated filter wheel, but that's only somewhat possible on the RASA11 afaik), to autofocusing using the primary mirror... it scares me :) Plus I don't want to end up with tens of thousands of subframes :D But maybe, one day...! Right now I'm being short term lazy :)

[@testboga5991]

Until they have to fiddle for hours to combat sensor tilt, temperature influence on focus etc

[@phutchis]

With a Skywatcher Star Adventurer you do need the STM4 cable. I use it with my Tamron 150-600mm Lens and canon camera and obtain excellent results with exposures in excess of 4 minutes. However, if I upgrade my mount then I will be using Ascom drivers to do exactly what Cuiv is suggesting.

[@andrewboland8170]

Love your videos Cuiv and the backfocus one is very well timed! Looking forward to it.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thank you! I will get to it once I am back from my vacation :)

[@frednurk4772]

Well done, a really useful guide to all things astronomical, plus the style is never boring.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. Clear skies!

[@frednurk4772]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek Clear skies .. you have got to be joking, I am in Cornwall and we have wall to wall cloud most of the year, you have light pollution we have cloud, turn that scope around and let's take up microscopy... Fantastic hobby when it all goes right and your help is much appreciated.

[@redabdab]

I've never felt the need for autoguiding. Modern CMOS cameras have such low noise levels (I use a 2600MC Pro) that long exposures are not necessary any more. I have an Esprit 150ED on the same mount as you (EQ6R Pro) and I just use 35 sec exposures with great results. Who needs autoguiding? I LOVE your channel, by the way.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks for the feedback! I sure need auto-guiding! If I were to look at your telescope, with reducer you have around 1 arcsecond per pixel. An average EQ6R might have around 25" peak to peak PE so that's already 1.5 arcseconds per exposure, above the resolution. So I'm guessing you're either using PEC, or you have a very good sample of the mount! Also, 30 seconds won't be enough to swamp the read noise in darker areas, or with narrowband... So that really introduces the need for guiding! And some systems like the ASIAIR can't do dithering without guiding... I definitely feel safer guiding! :-)

[@redabdab]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek sure. Totally agree when it comes to narrowband. But with an optolong l extreme and my camera cooled to -15C it seems to work quite nicely. Oh and by the way, I LOVE your videos!

[@francescosacchetto3457]

Great video, Cuiv! May I ask you some details on how you mounted the evoguide 50 on top of the main telescope ring (i.e. one of the 2 white rings holding the main scope)? I recognize there is not one long bar connecting the 2 white main rings: instead, there is a kind of clamp for the evoguide which is mounted on top of a...screw, maybe? I find it a brilliant solution! There are hundreds of clamps, mini-bars, adapters etc out there so I'm a bit lost trying to figure it out by myself.. Thanks a lot! Clear skies!

[@miodragpetkovic6142]

Can I say something??? OUTSTANDING CIUV!!! As always.

[@t0yahoi]

Your channel is seriously underrated! Thanks for all the intel

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks so much :-) help promote it ;-)

[@christopherlyons7613]

Hi Cuiv. Just found your videos, thanks for putting them together. Just a comment, really wish you would go deeper into a lot of your topics. Guiding and PHD2 is no exception. I'm using similar gear to yours but am having lots of difficulties. I'm really new to AP but have done visual for many years. My mount is the EQ6-R Pro and I generally use ZWO equipment (1600mm Pro main camera, 120MM-S guide camera, ZWO 60mm 280mm focal length guide scope, 1.25" EFW8 (with ZWO LRGB (type2) & Narrowband 7nm filters), also have the original ASiAir but don't use it much) and an Altair 183M Pro TEC camera (just to be different! and it provides great image scale with my scopes). My scopes are an Astro-Tech AT92 f/5.5, Explore Scientific AR127 (yes, just an Achro) f/6.5, and an Explore Scientific 203mm Newt f/3.9. I'm trying to use PHD2, SGP and SharpCap Pro and StarTools for processing. I've had no luck getting guiding working with the 120MM-S. It keeps failing during calibration, saying 'the star did not move enough'. I've been trying to get help through the PHD2 forum but haven't gotten it resolved yet. I'm also having an issue with plate solving in SGP and can't get that to work, so currently I can't locate targets nor can I guide, so I'm stuck. It's also difficult since I live in a city with no sky access and it takes me 30+ minutes to move my gear to any location where I can even try things out, so it's a real pain. I know my situation is a bit odd but any recommendations on how I should proceed?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Hi Christopher, thank you for the feedback, and welcome to the channel! You are absolutely right, I am indeed planning on getting deeper into each of the topics - right now I am highlighting the things to look for when evaluating and choosing the equipment. In later episodes (or as soon as the rainy season is over here in Japan), I indeed have a plan to go deeper into the PHD2 settings and *how* to actually set up and use the equipment! OK so in your case you want to go one issue at a time. PHD2 is one, and typically the "star did not move enough" is caused by improper length of guide pulses for the initial calibration. Did you set the correct focal length (of your guide scope, not your main scope!) and pixel size of your guide camera? If you do so from one of the tabs in the Brain menu, then click on "Calculate", it will give you a correct guide pulse length. Did guiding use to work with the ASIAir? The ASIAir uses the PHD2 code-base mostly as is. Also, are you using EQMOD or SkyWatcher ASCOM driver? As for SGP, getting PS to work reliably was one of my great frustrations. In the end, the local astrometry install (ansvr) was my best bet. Did you set the correct focal length (of your main imaging scope) and pixel size of the sensor? And are you using PlateSolving? SGP plate solving, autofocus, and sub-to-sub overhead is what made me move to (and then contribute to) N.I.N.A, which I have many videos about in this channel. You are in a tough situation, without any sky access. Absolutely impossible to set up on the side-walk just to get the equipment dialed in? Good luck, and clear skies!

[@j1will]

Excellent and very packed full series of videos Cuiv! I'm learning something new and often times very important details from all of your series!!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Excellent to hear that it is being useful John! The great thing is that I'm also studying and learning while making these videos, so everyone benefits!

[@joseribeiro9564]

Congratulations for the amazing content you produce, anything but lazy! I have a starshot autoguider paired with a skywatcher Heq5, have built a tailor made dove tail and support for my Vanon 500mm f4 and canon 60D central DS, for the first time i was able to use Ascom software and im wondering if i can get rid of the st4 cable between the guide camera and mount and do all the corrections directly on the pc, thank you again for the amazing content

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yes, get rid of the ST4 cable (and preferably burn it!), it is much better to do the guiding all from the PC

[@natswii]

I'm going to be using that silver QHY mini guide scope with my Esprit 120. I hope the combo will work alright . I bought that guidescope because i wanted to keep the weight down as i'm using an Ioptron Gem45 mount and i reckon i'm on the limit

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I think it may just about work, depending on both your guide cam and main imaging cam (and reducer, which I assume you use with the 120ED!). Good luck & Clear Skies, that 120ED is a beast!!

[@whatmattersmost6725]

Can't wait for the next 2 vids! THANK YOU

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thank you! I will get to them soon, hopefully :)

[@francescot3684]

Ones again a really well done and very interesting video Cuiv! I was checking today new camera for autoguiding and saw your video (perfect timing! 👍). Your series of videos covers everything beginners and intermediate astrophotographers need to know and you explain it so well! Thanks a lot!!!! By the way! Congratulations, you already passed 1.000 subscribers!!! And absolutely deserve it!!! Thanks again!🙂

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thank you so much for this feedback Francesco! I'm glad this is being useful!! I'll keep going, and Clear Skies to you!

[@leelangley3713]

Hey Cuiv,keep these videos coming,Great work you make it sound fun,all though we all know at times it can be a bit Eeeeek if things don't go to plan ..... or them clouds come rolling in ...... Oh for the life of an Astronomer eh. Thank you

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks Lee! Yeah, there are so many ways to get frustrated in this hobby - but in the end it is a hobby, it shouldn't be frustrating!

[@satyajitbhadraroy7723]

Thats how lazy people like me understand things.. thanks mate. You have got a new subscriber. ❤️❤️

[@darkmoonastrophotography]

Great work mate! Love your videos! Would be great to cover an episode on calibrating PHD2 and what is the best place in the sky to do this. I have read so many mixed reviews about calibrating at the zenith vs closer to your target etc. Cheers

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thank you Shaun! That's indeed on my (ever-growing) todo list! Little spoiler: if you are not using ST-4, you want to calibrate where both RA and DEC will have a wide amplitude of apparent movement, so PHD2 can use that to get more precise measurements. Imagine trying to calibrate near the celestial pole - any movement in RA would be almost imperceptible! If you are using an ST-4 cable, without direct mount connection, you want to calibrate near the target!

[@fernandoapausa4931]

Cuiv, The Lazy Geek WOW! this is critical info! When I use the Skywatcher Star Adventurer star tracker, the only way to guide is through the ST4 cable from guide camera to tracker guide port. I set my QHY mini guide scope in such a way that it points always to the area of the celestial equator, what I thought is always a good thing to increase guiding precision regardless where my imaging train is pointing to. But you say that when using the ST4 I should point the guider parallel to the imaging imager? How come! Important info I learned from your video is to run calibration every time I change target, because the ratio between the star moving rates for guider vs imager would have changed, but you say that does not work with ST4 guiding??? I agree with Shoun I video on PHD2 configuration would be super helpful. Thanks again for your videos Cuiv, love them!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

OK just to be clear, the orientation (rotation) of the guide camera doesn't matter - what matters is where it is pointed to in the sky when calibration was performed. As long as the guider points roughly in the same direction as the main scope (and you have proper polar alignment), you are good. With a star tracker that only supports ST-4 guiding, you want to calibrate PHD2 guider for each target that is at a different point of the sky. So if yesterday you were taking M51, and today you are taking the Cygnus Wall, you need to recalibrate. I hope that makes sense!

[@fernandoapausa4931]

Cuiv, The Lazy Geek Yes, I understood I’d need to recalibrate PHD2 when changing the target but, can I point the guider scope to the celestial equator area (90 degrees from North Pole) in both cases when imaging M51 and when imaging Cygnus? Or should I point the guider scope to an area close to the target in each case. That was my question.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

@@fernandoapausa4931 Got it - your guider should point to the same area as your main scope, e.g. close to the target!

[@AnakChan]

Don't know if you've done this yet but are you able to get into a little more with PHD2 Autoguiding esp into the configurable parameters like RA/DEC aggressiveness, RA/DEC Max Duration settings, etc. please?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Good idea! When the skies clear...!

[@andre-dx4yw]

so i use the usb3 port on my zwo camera for guiding, could i plug this into my startech usb hub and then to my laptop? i only have 1 usb3 and 1 usb2 on the laptop

[@TwoHandUke]

Hi Cuiv, Can you post a video of the details of your Sky-Watcher Evo guide scope, what guide camera you use, how the camera connects to the scope and how you gain focus and if back focus is an issue? I have an Orion guide scope and ZWO 290 but having big difficulties obtaining focus. I have to hang the camera way out of the holder before it comes close. THU

[@RobB_VK6ES]

That is not uncommon, particularly for the mini series. The dual use planetary/guide cameras like Cuiv has in this video are less affected because the sensor is outside of the scope focuser tube whereas the mini style places the sensor inside the focuser tube. The reality is most guide scopes are initially designed as finder scopes for use with an eyepiece and possibly a diagonal fitted so are not optimised for guide cam usage. Indeed my ZWO 60x280 "guidescope" has my ZWO 290 mini guide cam hanging by it's nosepiece extensions.

[@michaelasbury5473]

Thank you for this video. I’m using an edgeHD 800 and I’ve tried both an OAG and a guidescope and just have horrible guiding with PHD2 (actually now I’m using the ASIAir Pro). What I’ve read other places is that if you’re using a guidescope, the focal length of the guidescope should be 1/10 of that of your main scope. I think, for me, the problem might be balancing.

[@RobB_VK6ES]

@@michaelasbury5473 Guiding a long FL scope is always a challenge. For a schmidt cas you really should be using the OAG. The 10:1 thing is not the correct metric for matching guide to main scopes. As Cuiv pointed out the image scale or degrees/pixel is what counts. astronomy.tools/calculators/guidescope_suitability

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thank you Rob for providing so much good feedback and tips! Michael, as Rob points out, for the EdgeHD800, you should be using the OAG (and if you can use it, use the Celestron OAG rather than thin OAGs, it is amazing). SCTs have long focal lengths, so become sensitive to a LOT of things, from wind to mount limitations. In addition, their mirror can flop about (even with the locks on - and they should be off anyway if you're using the main focusing knob or the Celestron electronic focuser on the main knob), and that renders a guidescope (which will not be affected by the mirror flop) unsuitable for an SCT. What mount are you using? I hope you can resolve your guiding issues and good luck!

[@aniket789]

Hey Lazy Geek! Thanks for this! I have eq3 motorized mount which is not goto, can I still use auto guiding??

[@aecabanas]

Awesome video as always. What type of pc do you use? And Intel NUC? Thanks!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thank you Art! It's a mini-PC that I think is only sold in Japan, I have some more details here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/roTLpaCbnJWhpas

[@brianwalton3016]

Will you be doing an actual Auto guide on the AA+ soon?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I do auto-guiding on the AA+, what do you mean by auto guide?

[@nathanhassey4724]

Cuiv, on a given imaging session with that rig, what is the weight?

[@mikebay4874]

i have an exos2 goto mount. Do i have to use the st 4 port and cable that you don't remmomend?

[@RazorChrist]

Quick question on what guide scope to get. I'm looking at getting a WO ZenithStar 61mm refractor as my main. My original thought was to get the WO UniGuide 50mm guide scope to go with it, which could also handle guiding for anything bigger that I upgrade to in the future. But would I be better off just getting the UniGuide 32mm guide scope for now and upgrade both main and guide scopes down the road?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Well, all I can say is that either would work well!! In the end that really is up to you!

[@RazorChrist]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek Okay cool. I wasn't sure if putting a 50mm guide on top of a 61mm main scope would be overkill...haha. I may just go ahead and get the 50mm so I'll already have it when I upgrade down the road. It's only about $40 more USD than the 32mm.

[@davidemancini7853]

Hi, what better for guiding color or mono camera ,thx

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Excellent question, and I should have mentioned it in the video: definitely monochrome, as it is more sensitive and has higher resolution than equivalent color camera.

[@leboch65]

May I know why st4 cable are not recommended?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

You need to recalibrate for every single target, amongst other issues - search for Dylan O'Donnell's video on ST4 cables!

[@CrescentUmmi]

Cuiv, Do you leave your rig outside setup in rain and snow?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yep, I only take it inside when there's a typhoon or very strong winds coming...

[@CrescentUmmi]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek what do you use to protect it? Any recommendations?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Here is what I use: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZycemmvm79jgbc !

[@jesuschrist2284]

Only lazyness could explain those shades. Ow my eyes

[@testboga5991]

He's a Longnose living in Japan. He could wear whatever and still be cool 😎

[@cryptoalchemist10minutes44]

I am feeling ultra lazy tonight!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Laziness is love, laziness is life ;)

[@rashie]

👍👍