How To Clean E61 Brew Group Mushroom, Jet and Top Valve

[@TMAN882]

Quick tip: I put electric tape on the wrenches to keep from potentially scratching up the group head.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi T, thanks for that! Be very careful or do something to protect that finish! I've done the electrical tape many times. Another piece of advice... if you use the E tape when the machine is hot it leaves behind a PITA to remove residue!

[@SteveSpeirs]

@@Wholelattelovepage :) Ah, that E tape residue... been there, done that.

[@Noplacetobe]

@@Wholelattelovepage A ring spanner is the appropriate tool to use, I would never use an adjustable wrench where possible large force is needed.

[@diycentral]

Really appreciate these DIY maintenance videos.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi diy, Awesome! We will keep cranking them out!!!

[@katakis1]

What a great video! Love your maintenance videos. They're the best I can find online, and gave me the confidence and information to do a bunch of repairs myself!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey K, Thanks - Great to hear!

[@melaniesempsrott5159]

Awesome video! Super helpful! Didn’t realize I’d not done this and now going to rewatch as I take apart my machine. Thank you!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

You're welcome - glad it was helpful!

[@manhso5549]

very detail, i hope this cleaning procedure will fix my expobar II machine black flash problem as well.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi MS, Thanks for the comment. If you want to go further, here's a viodeo showing a completed rebuild and lubrication procedure for E61 groups - also very detailed: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e32sqHdqZdmmqNU

[@AlonAbraham1]

Very good technical instructions and explenation of how to understand if it needs service. Your videos are the best in the business! Appreciate all your videos

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi AA, We do our best. Thanks for your support!!!

[@bigajv]

Thanks for these. I love my Alex Duetto, and being able to take care of it myself just adds more value and love to every cup ... :)

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey Arne, You are welcome. Happy to help!

[@arthurjimmy9388]

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[@conradkeith9093]

@Arthur Jimmy instablaster ;)

[@arthurjimmy9388]

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[@arthurjimmy9388]

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[@BensCoffeeRants]

I added a flow control mod ('Coffee sensor brand") for a Rocket machine which requires you to swap out the mushroom part, the gasket that came with the mod looked similar but I ended up with a slight leak like described at the end of the video, so I put the original gasket back and it worked better. I think for that machine there was a little groove the gasket sits in and the original rocket gasket just fit better there.

[@teebol]

Thanks to your cool video my ISOMAC Millenium is now back in action. Saved me $300 service from my local guy.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi t, That's awesome! Thanks for the comment!

[@AA-SFO]

My ECM Sync is a bit over a year old and starting to require some preventative maintenance. Thanks for the great videos. This week I am looking at your E61 group rebuild video. I have a squeaky lever so will be replacing the gaskets and lubricating the cam and rod. As in that video, this video shows you using one or several crescent wrenches to loosen the chrome nuts and valves. I am VERY concerned about scratching the chrome nuts on my expensive machine parts. Do you do anything to prevent that type of damage when you repair machines? I have seen auto repair videos advising to protect chrome lug nuts from scratches they use a socket wrench with a very thin transparent type plastic bag used to line the interior of the socket. I have also thought about protecting the chrome with electrical tape. I also feel the use of a narrower open end wrench might help control leverage and slip, and provide easier access to some parts of the group. Any thoughts appreciated.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey AA, We often use electrical tape to protect finish. Suggest your machine is fully cooled to prevent adhesive from tape being left behind.

[@trevorward234]

For a plumbed in espresso machine with a vib pump does the water pressure need to be reduced and if so how and to what pressure.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi trevor, Curious what make/model machine you have with a vibration pump that's plumbable? Very few vibe pump machines are plumbable. Most manufactures recommend reducing input line pressure to 1-2 bar (15-30psi). If the machine has a solenoid valve internally between the plummed in waterline and the pump then some manufacturers are okay without reducing the input line pressure since the solenoid closes of input line pressure unless the pump is running.

[@jackklarfeld7726]

Thanks to your excellent videos I was able to locate and clear blockage from a belated descaling in the upper sleave assembly. I have a Profitec Pro 500 PID with flow control from WLL. When I reassembled the brew group the lever for the flow control was no longer parallel to the machine, as it was from the factory. Is it possible to re-align the flow control lever?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Jack, Thanks for your patience. I was offline at the Specialty Coffee Expo for the last week. Here's a video showing how to do it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fYqTfqmXppaAidU

[@jackklarfeld7726]

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc! I'll check it out.

[@bobfindler3277]

Good, useful video. Thanks! It would be prudent to describe how many, either, "inch-pounds" or "foot-pounds" Force to accurately tighten the Top Nuts. For those of us who employ Torque wrenches. To ensure correctly engineered tightness for the Group Head to both function as designed, and avoid damage to the threads and gasket due to overtightening.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Great suggestion!

[@valfanculo4614]

nice video - wouldnt it be a good idea to clean inside at the same time ? when you removed the parts - i noticed some scale on the sides near the top - for home use - 2 or 3 espresso a day - how long before i have to do this kind of cleaning - will be using water softener - also the brew level seemed to have a little squeak - do you spay some oil there or have to take it apart to clean also ? thanks

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi v, Thanks for the comment and questions! If you are softening the water it could be awhile - if ever, but a good idea to make a check every 4-6 months for scale deposits and/or other debris. Squeaks in E61 groups are typically caused by internal cams pushing on valve activators lacking lubrication. These are lubricated on build with a food safe grease and can/should be lubricated during a check and rebuild as needed. In use, coffee oils lubricate as well. Overuse of back flush detergents like Cafiza can remove the grease and coffee oils resulting in the squeaks. Machine manufacturers typically recommend back flushing with detergent every 100-150 brew cycles. Plain water backflushing can be done at any interval without risk of lubrication removal. At your use level some would do plain water daily but weekly is fine. If squeaks are not subsiding you can open up the E61 and lubricate. We have this very detailed video on opening up all the E61 group components, checking, lubricating and all the way to full rebuild: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e32sqHdqZdmmqNU

[@valfanculo4614]

thanks - very good videos - keep them going - very helpful @@Wholelattelovepage

[@valfanculo4614]

i am looking to get an machine from you very soon - just cant decide - didnt know the E61 is much more involved to take care of - what are the big Pros to having a E61 vs the standard kind - also the unica machine - bezzera - any good long term - easy to use and maintain ? thanks

[@andylogan5688]

Great video, did you end up doing a video on replacing the seal on the top valve? I couldn't locate it on the page and would be very useful (after since damaging mine, i suspect there is thread lock on the components or something! )

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey Andy, thanks for the comment! Here's our detailed E61 maintenance and rebuild video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e32sqHdqZdmmqNU

[@mjmjersey]

Yes I bought the water filtration system that you recommended for descaling because I was hoping not to have to do regular maintenance how often do I have to clean this Flo valve and the group head with the teardown

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey Michael, If using the BWT (if memory serves your are), you should not have scale issues when used as directed. I would check the jet in the flow mushroom ~ every 6 months as shown here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e32sqHdqZdmmqNU Marc

[@mjmjersey]

@@Wholelattelovepage OK thank you if there is no scale build up in there. Than does that mean that there is no build up in the boilers or a safe bet my boilers are OK?

[@Bishopheals74]

Wow I thought by running Cafiza each week will prevent that from happening. Im going to have to check mine when I get home.

[@treebs9516]

I lubed my brew lever cam and now i have erratic temperatures in my rocket apartamento. The seal on bottom of mushroom looks fine? Any ideas

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi t, Lubing the brew lever should not cause erratic temperatures. If in US/Canada you can reach out to our tech support team here for assitance if needed: support.wholelattelove.com/

[@akquicksilver]

I am surprised that he didn't talk about inspecting the top valve seat or cleaning it. As nasty as the top valve seal was, I'm sure the seat should have been shined up. Good maint vid!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi JB, Thanks for the comment!

[@christopherma1718]

Do I have to do this if I use a water tank water softener like BWT or Rocket softener

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Christopher, the softeners will slow scale accumulation but depending on your source water hardness you may still need to do this. The BWT products work differently than softeners using calcium to magnesium ion-exchange so will reduce maintenance even more. Marc

[@slavkochepasov8134]

Is there any additional specific in cleaning E61 (ECM) with Flow Control Device?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Slav, Thanks for the question. Here's a more recent video with a very detailed lookk at E61 group maintenance and rebuild. Flow control cleaning/maintenance is covered at about 23 minutes into the video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e32sqHdqZdmmqNU

[@slavkochepasov8134]

@@Wholelattelovepage thank you.

[@sonvfave]

If i am using clean treated water is this still a recommended maintenance step ? Honestly im. Ot excited about playing doctor with a newish machine

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Matthew, If using good quality water then frequency should decrease significantly. But never hurts to put on the white coat and have a look! Marc

[@adelinapetrea7375]

How does this work for the Profi with flow control? How do we take off the flow control valve? Thanks

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi AP, Thanks for the question. It's essentially the same. If you see scale build up on the mushroom do soak in descaler as shown in this video. No worry about the chrome as the mushroom in recent Profis are stainless steel. If soaking in descaler open the flow valve all the way (counter-clockwise). Half way through the soak operate the valve a few times and return to descaler. Hope that helps! Marc

[@adelinapetrea7375]

@@Wholelattelovepage hi Marc, awesome, thanks for the quick reply, will do. I love this machine! Take care, Adelina

[@stephendenagy3396]

Any maintenance for the pressure gauge? It’s been 2 years, with changes in the field and products, should be done. Also, Petrol Gel is not in your store now. There is a Gaggia silicone gel, I assume the same stuff. BTW, you guys seem to be the only folks doing this. We live far, far away from any sort of service!

[@jdpst20]

Just did the water flow test and got 4 oz in exactly 20 seconds. What I notice though is that when I have espresso in the portafilter and after I'm finished brewing that I have barely any water coming out of the drain hole behind the grouphead. I do have nice dry pucks though which is a great thing and they come out of the portafilter evenly and in a solid puck so that is good. Should I worry about the water situation not coming out of the drain area? I have a rocket appartamento about 2 years old. I back flush about every 3-4 months.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Joshua, Thanks for the question. I read in one of your other comments that you are doing triple shots. With a full filter basket there's less open area for excess water so a reduction in the amount of water coming out of the drain could be expected. If your pucks are nice and dry then things are likely working as they should. Depending on how much you use the machine I would backflush more often than every 3-4 months. Maybe every few days with no cleaner and once every week or two with a product like Cafiza: www.wholelattelove.com/products/urnex-cafiza-espresso-machine-cleaner Marc

[@jdpst20]

Whole Latte Love awesome thanks I’ll ad that into my weekly routine

[@Wholelattelovepage]

You're welcome!

[@Elfin4]

Ive just been told by a Bezzera dealer not to descale the boiler and just to back flush with powder or liquid cleaner

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi E, Manufacturers in most cases recommend against end users descaling their espresso machines. It's not that it can't be done but can cause problems if done incorrectly. The best course is to filter water to lower the calcium content so scale does not form in the first place.

[@Giannixeneize]

it's very interesting i have a question i have a rocket similar to that and from the steam lance I get steam and plenty of water? I should just go out steam right? that water might come out

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi G, Thanks for the question. It's normal to have some water come out when steam is first turned on. Within a second or two it should go to steam only. The initial bit of water is from condensation. Marc

[@Giannixeneize]

@@Wholelattelovepage I get costly water and steam

[@Giannixeneize]

@@Wholelattelovepage How can I get my video?

[@foxevo26]

Hi after performing the test I noticed a slow flow rate. After taking the mushroom valve I noticed the mushroom is just one piece not like the one in the video. I have a Profitec 500 with PID. How can I access the metal small filter with a one piece mushroom valve. I got 2 oz on 20 seconds I upgraded the shower screen to IMS from your store. Thanks WLL

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi f, Thanks for the question. I would contact our Tech Support dept which can walk you through: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us

[@alisuod153]

Hello, I admire you, I have a question and please inform me, I have a device Profitik Dull Boiler when operating the device emits friction sound from the head of the group, although I use a lot of lubrication! Do I change the head of the group or the solution is simple? Thank you

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi aS, I'd try the cleaning first for sure!

[@jackklarfeld7726]

Is it ok to use food-safe silicone grease instead of the petro gel?

[@jackklarfeld7726]

Research answered my question: it is yes.

[@davelasker]

I just purchased a Profitec Pro 500 PID with flow control device. How does the cleaning process differ when the flow control device is installed?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Dave, thanks for the question. It’s not gonna be much different. One thing is your mushroom valve will be stainless steel and not chrome and that’s a great thing. Stainless steel is much less likely to collect scale but that is going to depend on your water quality. If you see any scale buildup definitely do soak your mushroom in a D scaling solution. Hope that helps!

[@janfolmer9437]

Did you ever make the video on how to replace the seal that was corroded? I need to replace mine.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Jan, Thanks for the question. We have not - Covid delays :(

[@Sandboxoverland]

What’s the difference in how to care for a machine that is plumbed in? Ecm syncronika

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey Sandbox, No real difference in maintenance like this. We strongly suggest plumbed in dual boiler machines like the Synchronika have filtration on the plumb in line like the BWT Bestmax Premium. When used as directed, the filter prevents scale deposits by exchanging calcium in tap water for magnesium. Leaves you with water that does not cause scale yet has the mineral level needed to support good flavor and prevent corrosion: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestmax-premium-filter-package-w-besthead-flex

[@angel_falls_creative]

Is there another nut to take off for the Profitec 500 Pro PID? I couldn’t see one?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi afp, Not entirely certain which nut you might be referring to. If nut holding in mushroom valve some E61s have 2 nuts up top and some do not. Fairly certain Pro 500 in stock configuration has 2 up top.

[@julialopez1987]

@@Wholelattelovepage Yes, the mushroom valve like in the video. There were not 2 that I could see. i have the Pro 500 PID. There was nothing indicating 2 nuts. But I also couldn't find anywhere on the internet to demonstrate something different if I was missing it...any resources that way if I did miss it?

[@johnadkins3466]

After I finish pulling the shot on my Profitec Pro 500, I am having to hold the brew lever back against the machine in order to get the water to discharge completely and dry the puck. Does this mean I need to take apart and clean the whole E61Brew group? Do you all have a video on taking apart the entire E61 Brew group?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi John, Thanks for the question. If having issues with discharge and can only get it to discharge by dropping the lever down and then pushing it towards the machine, sounds like something going on with the lower half of the E61 group. Probably with the middle actuator. Could have a worn out actuator gasket, the actuator itself might be worn out where it meets the lever cam. In some cases the top of the actuator can break. Basically have to remove the lower portion of the E61 and inspect it. We do not currently have a video on full E61 disassembly - sorry!

[@hoopsdudedan]

I followed this video and it helped a ton - thanks so much for this. One question: The chrome plating on the mushroom valve seems to already be corroded. Even before soaking it in Dezcal, it wiped right off and I can now mostly see the brass underneath. I got it all clean, but is there a problem with using it this way? I got this Profitec Pro 700 secondhand so I don't entirely know how it was treated before, although it has been working reasonably well.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi n, Thanks for the comment and question. It was a year or so ago Profitec started using stainless steel mushroom valves in all their E61 group machines (ECM machines use stainless mushrooms too) so no issues in newer machines. You might be interested in Profitec's Flow Control Device for your Pro 700: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-e61-flow-control-device It allows you to adjust flow rate for extractions. The upgrade includes a new stainless steel mushroom valve and E61 mounted pressure gauge. No problem using your current mushroom valve. Marc

[@CarlMalota]

Hi Marc, is this the same process used on the ECM Classike with flow control?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey Carl, Essentially the same. You'll want to check for scale and descale if needed the top of the mushroom which has the needle valve controlling the flow rate. Marc

[@mv8771]

would this procedure address the fact that my expobar brewtus (which I bought from whole latte love) isn't back flushing? I have not kept up with maintenance, use it pretty much daily and bought in 2013.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi MV, It couldn't hurt but there may be more going on if little maintenance during 7 years of daily use. Hopefully you water isn't too hard or you have kept up with descaling Marc

[@mv8771]

@@Wholelattelovepage ​ Hi Marc, looks like WLL is treating you well. I bought my machine from you. I'm really handy and want to service my own machine. Should I call to speak to someone about this? I see there are tear down videos, but It would be nice to get some advice on the matter. Thanks.

[@400080vikkash]

Had a question, is it better to have the machine always on and sit in eco mode or always turn off the pro 700 at night and turn it back on in the morning? What's happening to brew boilers are they warm always with eco mode?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi vk, Thanks for the question. Eco mode turns off the boilers so they do not stay warm. Marc

[@400080vikkash]

@@Wholelattelovepage thanks! Is it better to have it on eco mode always or turn it off every night is a question I think many might have. Thanks

[@tylerschettler511]

Great video! Anything that should be done with the lever/cam or drain? I feel comfortable tackling this, but would want to have spare o-rings, Teflon washers, etc on hand. Do you sell these parts individually or as part of a rebuild kit? I have a Profitec Pro 500 if that makes a difference. Thanks again for another great video!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Tyler, Thanks for the comment! We do have the parts individually. It's best to contact us directly so you get the right stuff: www.wholelattelove.com/contact-us There are some O-rings on the lever shaft.

[@fredrigaudeau]

I have a Rocket Mozzafiato and I could remove the top bolt but the mushroom didn’t come with it and I couldn’t extract it. I didn’t want to break the mushroom as it is made of ceramic. Is there any specific procedure for the Mozzafiato?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi FR, There's no specific procedure for removing the mushroom. It should just lift out once the top nut is removed unless obstructed by a scale deposit or similar. The mushroom is ceramic but in my experience it's not very likely to break unless it experience a great deal of shocking force. It's relatively strong but brittle. Marc

[@fredrigaudeau]

@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you for your answer. In the meantime I finally broke it when pulling it out (it broke at the base). I’ve ordered one in metal to replace it ;)

[@brandonb417]

If you have an NSF silicone lube can you use that instead of the petro based stuff?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

NSF Silicone should be fine.

[@brandonb417]

@@Wholelattelovepage Excellent, thanks.

[@carlbrothers]

Using the right sized socket would greatly reduce the chance of damaging the machine or causing tool marks on the machine.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Carl, Thanks for the tip! It's a large socket which many home users may not have. Another tip...wrap the nut with a layer of electrical tape to prevent marring.

[@diycentral]

Also technically the adjustable wrench was in the wrong orientation when loosing but was correct with tightening. I doubt these machine require much torque so not a big deal.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

You know your wrenching! Thanks for the comment!

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I have a pretty big tool kit but not large enough socket for taking off that top nut, it's a big one. I doubt most people have that lying around unless they're a mechanic or plumber maybe.

[@BlackTreasureMap]

At the 3 minute mark you can see water dripping from the tube at the bottom of the group. Mine does that non stop when my machine is turned on and the tray fills up fairly quickly. Would that be a gasket in the lower part? Machine still works but just leaks from the lower tube. Any help appreciated. Thanks

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi BTM, Thanks for the question. Could be the actuator is bad/dirty as seen at this point in the video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/anmYaISJerJ3ntU

[@TheBallisticSerb]

Is it true that the rocket appartamentos shipping these days have a ceramic mushroom which are prone to breaking?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi O, Thanks for the question. Can ceramic break? Yes. Is it common? Not at all. While I personally prefer stainless steel mushrooms, I prefer ceramic over chrome plated. Chrome plated mushrooms tend to pit and flake off pieces of chrome - especially if scaling is happening in machine. Marc

[@KeithDins]

Yes they do and mine broke just out of warranty. Expensive. I contacted WLL and they found one in metal for half the price that works exactly the same.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Keith Dinsmore Hi Keith, thanks for sharing your experience! Marc

[@bobsahib]

Won't these parts get cleaned/descaled if you run Dezcal through the machine via the water tank?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Robert, Thanks for the question. Yes - to some extent. Problem is the contact time of the acid with scale in the mushroom etc is much shorter than in the boiler. So it may not be completely effective. If source water is relatively soft and a machine has been descaled regularly then descaling may keep things in order. Marc

[@markusweninger3759]

how do you get to the filter inside the mushroom in the Profitec (700)/ECM E61 brewheads? The lower part is so tightly srewed (glued?) into the upper/visible part that I am afraid to apply brute force to separate the two.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Markus, Brute force is the way to go. No glue in there. Marc

[@ChristianOliver]

@@Wholelattelovepage I’m having the same issue with my lower part of the mushroom. I’ve never been able to unscrew it. Is it standard left twist to unscrew?

[@68404]

Using a shifter instead of a socket? And a shifter is NOT a crescent wrench.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Oh boy... IDK... many of my adjustable spanner wrench things literally have "Crescent" stamped on the handle. Maybe just a US trademark name thing. "Shifter" is a new one on me. Call it what you want - I get it. The thing that loosens/tightens fasteners.

[@comercialemersongb]

Very well!

[@gigi9467]

How often is thisnrecomeded

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Jesus, Depends on usage. If you back flush as recommended after daily usage and your water quality is good maybe every 2-3 months or if you notice reduced flow from the group. We have a very detailed How To Back Flush E61 Group Machines posting in the next couple of hours.

[@glennsmooth]

Crescent wrenches 🤦‍♂️

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Lol would you prefer spanner, adjustable spanner, adjustable wrench, thingy for turning nuts? Cheers!

[@glennsmooth]

@@Wholelattelovepage socket wrenches or wrenches of the correct size would cause less damage

[@eralasch]

... I dream about them every night.-)