How to Clean up Wires in Electronic Projects

[@Dopefish432]

I do like your videos but I have some remarks about 10:00 tinning, ferrules, screw and tension / cage clamps: - Don’t ever tin stranded conductors or add a ferrule on top of tinned wire in screw terminal block applications. You will create a weak point at the transition between stranded and the “newly created” solid conductor. It will behave now more like a solid conductor and easily break at that point with repeated movement / vibration losing the advantages of a stranded conductor. - There is also the problem with cold flow which over time loosens the connection. - You will also introduce some residual flux which has isolating surface properties with your solder that causes I squared R losses on the junction between ferrule / soldered wire which will be problematic with higher currents. - Why do we see tinned ends on our products then? Because it’s the cheapest way of mitigating stray strands of wires. It is much cheaper to dip the ends in a solder bath than crimping ferrules or cable lugs on an assembly line. So this is what cheap Chinese manufactures do. In a quality product those corners wouldn’t be cut. - There are end covers for terminal blocks so you don’t expose the contacts on the side. This might seem irrelevant with small dc voltages like in this example but are essential if mains voltages are present as well.

[@almc8445]

I certainly agree with not using tinned or tinned/ferruled with screw terminals - We distribute audio amps that cost 10s or 100s of thousands from various different suppliers and they universally use stranded wire, not tinned, with a ferrule for all their terminals. These amps take a hell of a beating and handle extreme very high power (8kW, sometimes more). It's also the same for 3-phase cable termination.

[@davidmalawey]

I am pinning this comment for the audience. I have not yet learned how to add an info card with this information on top of the video. For reference, this corrects my comment at 10:10

[@lorinczhuff2022]

I have a Bachelor's degree in Electrical Engineering. I was a late bloomer, (graduated at 52 yrs old), but I had worked as a technician for several years prior). I LOVE your channel. I had a small lab at home several years ago and I am in the process of setting up another one. Your topic selection fascinates me. I wish I had known about KZbin when I was at university 14 years ago. But I learn so much from some of the unique channels like yours. Thank You.

[@arbitrary_username]

14 years ago KZbin was faaaaar away from what it is now 😉

[@davidmalawey]

Thank you so much from the encouragement. It’s telling me which things I am choosing right when someone older than me gives approval. Big sincere thank you.

[@cyrusyamin1942]

@@davidmalaweykeep it up

[@EngineerNotFound]

This "boring topic" has definitely come at the right time; thank you. The wiring on my recent project is a rat's nest, and I've just started to try to figure out how to clean it up and have reasonably easy access. It's much more of a challenge than I expected. The breadboard connections are giving me headaches, given that wires seem to love popping out of place in one area while I'm trying to check wires in another area. Keeping this vid in my 'tutorials for projects' playlist.

[@nraynaud]

One remark from a EE professor: when prototyping, use robust conectors. If by 3AM Tuesday morning, while pulling your hair, you have cycled your connectors 150 times, if it's a 500 insertions garanteed connector, and you have 3 more weeks to go, now you'll also be debugging intermittent connection issues at 5AM on Friday.

[@dittilio]

This is also why I bootlace a lot of connections that my colleagues will tend to just jam bare wire in. Too many times a stand has separated out and is shorting intermittently, or the connection is just loose because the terminal can't be screwed tight enough any more.

[@enginerdy]

I have a similar feeling about passing off cobbled-together dev setups to firmware engineers (or to your future self). That stuff better be bolted down and solid otherwise you’re wasting everyone’s time and blowing the schedule

[@rowannadon7668]

There is a reason people build drones with all the wires soldered directly to the board, it’s janky but it works

[@davidmalawey]

@@dittilioyou’ve just taught me a word! bootlace crimper, is the type of crimper i have been calling the Iron Sphincter. Also now i’ve found ferrules which have no insulator. that will be useful for several needs.

[@davidberrien9711]

Very good overview, with lots of detail. I've built lots of projects like these engineering prototypes in my professional life. Single purpose test equipment, that will be used by lots of people with varying levels of knowledge and skill and nearly the same construction and fabrication techniques. Keeping vulnerable wiring hidden and tucked in actually reduces the need to repair the device. People treat a nice looking device with just a little more respect. Labels are also very helpful for future you, but those can be added after the fact. Numbering terminal blocks and wires and carrying the labels on schematics and maintenance documents makes things go smoother when things do go wrong. Pre-numbered tape pads, heat-shrink printers, and terminal board label tabs can be very helpful. But you have to have them before you need them, or they will be seen as a delay of the project if you wait until it is working to think about putting them in. Putting the labels in the schematic takes seconds, and then when the cable is being built it is easy to apply the labels.

[@cut-the-blue-wire]

engineer since '82 your videos are always packed with great relevant info! keep it up!

[@RobertMilesAI]

The thing about using older products because you can expect them to still be around in future is interesting. One way to think about it is: If you randomly sample a point in the lifetime if a product's availability, the expectation of that value is in the exact middle of the lifetime. On priors we expect we're at the middle of any given product's lifetime, so the best first guess for "how long is this going to be around" is "the same length of time as it has already been around"

[@sblowes]

Everything’s always weighted probabilities with this guy! (BTW, _huge_ fan of your work)

[@almc8445]

Woah fancy seeing you here XD

[@donrafaeli]

Further reading : The lindy effect on wikipedia and Nassim Taleb’s Antifragile

[@BrainSlugs83]

The blue and gray tub shelf in your garage is really cool. I love that it's made from aluminum extrusion and din rail, and it's using the din rail itself as a linear bearing against the lip of the plastic tubs. That is a really clever design. Love it!

[@davidmalawey]

Thank you! I would have shared this design already but it needs a couple enhancements. The tubs are called divider bins. the heavier ones are scraping against the DIN rails. Model for tubs was a ton of research and you can find them at grabcad.com/library/divider-bin-1

[@zorkman777]

I've been testing and labeling all of my batteries with their true capacities. I think your channel is getting to me subconsciously

[@Ziraya0]

Recently I recovered some of that helical wire wrap from an AV cart I dismantled and I'm really liking it. Often I'll need to have say 4n temporary device stations assembled on my desk, each one needs a power brick, each brick needs a mains lead. It's been very helpful in my job squirreling away every 1ft, 2ft, 3ft mains lead I can find, more cable, more problems. Since I have this 4n pattern I realized I can bundle the mains leads and taper branch the ends to make the bundle behave better than the individuals. Plus when I rip them out for different leads, they're easier to store. Re: cutting zipties/etc off bundles, one of my favorite weirdly great and widely applicable tools is cat nail clippers. These are tiny scissors (opposed single bevel blades that shear past one another) where each blade forms a half circle. I love them for stripping wire, cutting anything cord or wire shaped, and one of the great properties is that they're blunt and hooked. It's very easy to get just the ziptie hooked into the blades while the blunt sides of the blades gently push everything else out of the way. They also capture what they're cutting, so really floppy things like thread aren't able to escape. I've had this pair for over a decade and even with cutting copper, aluminum, infrequently steel wire, they still cut thread cleanly and reliably; I did buy a second pair off amazon, they don't do anything reliably, so there is a necessary quality threshold that can be missed. This started as a tool of convenience, the cheap wire strippers I had gotten with some kit were genuinely too dull to do anything other than cut to length, I needed to strip some wires so I tried my cat's nail clippers. Now I use them all the time for many things.

[@deviantmultimedia9497]

I was just looking for lead dress guidelines. Couldn't find ANYTHING. This wasn't exactly what I was looking for but still very useful. And I love this channel.

[@davidmalawey]

So glad it's helpful. Now I need to google "lead dress" ...

[@nathanblanchard8897]

27:40 there’s a huge opportunity for printed clips for running wires in 2020/3030/any extruded beam! I used to use them when building printers professionally, and they were a godsend. You don’t need any strength, so 1-2 walls is plenty and PETG is perfect for the flex needed. I don’t have a link for you either, but I’m sure Printables has plenty or you can model some around the standard extrusion dimensions. To be clear, it isn’t BETTER than the slot cover you showed, but it’s a good solution when you don’t have any on hand or don’t want to buy something. The 5 minute print time per clip makes it a perfect printed substitute.

[@paulperkins920]

Love the topics. Cable management deserves a follow up video. We all love looking at panels that are well organized and professional. Like you said just knowing a product exists is half the battle. Also if you use CAD, go ahead and put the cable management parts in there it will give you a idea of what it will need.

[@bitcarpenter8646]

A lot of really great stuff here. I especially like the smart tips for dupont connectors at the end. Turning the contact clip out so you can probe test points is really smart. And introducing your own "poke yoke" systems like the pin cover/connector indexer to save the hardware from minor mistakes is a great thing for students to be thinking about.

[@noonebesides]

This is a nice video about the physicality of electrical designs. Thanks. Often we can get caught up in the abstract levels and decisions of a design, and classrooms are suited to encouraging that tendency. It is important to experience things like picking the wrong stiffness of cable, a board with some awkward connector placement, putting all the slack of a wire/cable in the wrong area, etc; living with the pain of the bad pick and how to mitigate or replace it. Then our brain can learn the skill and value of looking ahead during the early decisions/constraints one can make without even knowing it. Also, a reminder I use... Cables are components. You don't have electrical components and then cables connecting them. Those are mental categories, not reality, and they encourage cables as afterthoughts. You have some components with fixed geometry and some components with some compliant geometry. Cables are components.

[@nickmavridis6615]

Great content David. I learned so much in those 58 mins then I did in the last 2 years about being a better engineer. Keep up the amazing work. You made it to my hero list buddy.

[@Apfelwurm]

Please never stop making videos like this, it helps so much to get all these deep thoughts about more basic topics. Have you considered also packing that knowledge in some kind of wiki? I think this would be awesome in combination with the videos

[@SeaMushroom98]

In industry, when I prototype I use Wago connectors or DIN rail components for almost everything up until I'm near a final design -- only then will I start crimping wires and creating connectors. When we're in an experimenting mode, being able to put pieces in like lego makes it much faster to make a product quickly

[@sklikizos]

A point about wire wrap that I don't believe I heard you mention: I like using a wrap color that contrasts with the wiring as much as possible so that it's one last thing to muddy my visual orientation. For example, having a black wrap on black wire makes it harder to see where that wire is actually traveling, so if I need to adjust it at any time, I have to go searching. Most of what I personally build uses either 24V or 5V or less. I've standardized on yellow spiral wrap as a default because that is a common color for 12V which I seldom use, so it rarely conflicts. For those situations I keep a smaller quantity of white and blue spiral wrap because I rarely use those wire colors, but moreso than yellow. I also like using spiral wrap in multiple levels of cable management e.g. I might have a few different cable runs briefly running near each other. Each of these get spiral wrapped individually, but also get wrapped together at the common section with a much shorter length, allowing for high degree of both organization and reconfigurability.

[@Deraco1]

Very good small tips and advice that goes along ways, doesn't even matter if its in a small electronics project, especially for the cable management part! Great video sir!

[@zachwatson2349]

Graduated from tamu in ‘21 with EE. My senior design definitely would’ve looked better had this been uploaded back then!

[@JeremySeitz]

Another fan from the older engineering club :) I know most of the topics you mentioned, but I watched the whole thing and learned a lot of new stuff (and good ideas too), so I'm in the process of going back and watching your other videos! Great stuff - really like also the use of DIN rail, which I haven't used a lot on my own projects. I saw you incorporated it as part of the structure of the robot in the first part, making it easier to mount things while being part of the frame. I will use this idea! Also like the tip about covering pin headers using a 3d printed shield, and the tips about cable wraps. You have a gift for teaching practical advice to make the act of making things much easier

[@ariashark]

these videos are actually just. 10/10 goldmines. every time. thank you!

[@dittilio]

This is...amazing. I feel dirty for watching something so satisfying, like...should this be adults only, it's definitely r/cableporn.

[@ligius3]

I'll be watching the comments here in the future to see suggestions from other people, there are many things out there not discovered yet. Reusable cable organizing ties: not sure what they're called, mine for example have small spheres on the tie and the static end has a larger hole where the sphere can pass through and a smaller hole where it gets fixed. There are other reusable styles available out there. Velcro ties: there is a style that uses only hooks and no fuzzy loops. You can buy them and 1m lengths and cut them as long as you need to. Screwless terminals: there is a cheap style there that uses spring-loaded levers, usually white. They are quite robust, though not as good as the Wago ones. I use them for 220V quick prototyping/testing. I left a few of them outside - away from water - and they still hold up after two years. Dupont-style connectors: the bane of any hobbyist. If somebody is prototyping I would suggest setting up a fixed end on the expensive board(s) and use some kind of extension, if you need to do a lot of insertions. We are force to use them but somebody should standardize a more robust connection. XT-30, XT-60, XT-90: really good connectors for high-current devices. There are also bullet-style and Dean/T-style but XT is my preferred option. Plastic-coated soft wire: I have a small box where I save all the ties that come with new devices. Maybe not as nice as any other option, but they are free.

[@VinokDesign]

You are by far the best channel I have that fixes so many of the problems I encountered while thinkering and producing. Very big thank you! 🙏 You are upgrading a lot of knowledge from me but I will also transmit this to my other teachers and students! I would love to buy to a coffee !!!!

[@jamie.kyriacou]

This knowledge is invaluable! Thank you so much. Great videos

[@RSJ115]

Just commenting for the algorithm, really enjoy your content.

[@davidmalawey]

I appreciate that!

[@Mad4400]

10:55 The minimum radius for a bend in a multi-strand cable should be 4 times the diameter of the cable. Tighter bends can cause the wires inside to experience strain beyond their elastic deformation limit, causing strain hardening. I do a lot of IT connect in office environments and see it cause problems often when a workstation has monitors on arms. The leads are run while the arm is fully extended with no slack provided at the pivot points, everything gets secured in place with Velcro or cable ties, then the arm is folded back into the position it will remain in +90% of the time.

[@davidmalawey]

Nice to know! 4x diameter seems like a good repeatable rule. Thank you.

[@3atsleeprepeat]

you can also use M type cable markers. And get into the habit of color coding your cables as much as you can. There are only so much number and colors, so you have to be creative about it.

[@davidmalawey]

I've not discovered these yet - sounds very useful, please link an example of your favorite ones if you don't mind! And thanks for this info 😃

[@CU96821]

Please do a video tour of your lab/workshop. I'm sure many others are curious...

[@jamess1787]

Mounting bases: i used these in small cabinets to conceal wires and route them. If you have a large bundle of wires that change in count: run a ziptie parallel to the wire bundle, and throw a velcro strap perpeldicular to the wire bundle. Boom, hold a bunch of ethernet or power cables effortlessly

[@randomguy3784]

Awesome video dude! Extremely Informative.

[@arbitrary_username]

My autistic OCD appreciates your efforts 😊

[@GrowlingBearMedia]

But we love your boring video's ! More please !! 😃

[@thermonuclearwarhead]

So many amazing tips, great stuff!

[@djwmunro]

The machines I work on use zip ties from the factory. I have yet to see one cut flush. I have cut myself a number of times now. I try to go through each machine and tidy them up but I do forget and then get cut again. The cut ends of the zip ties are like a razor blade. I think I should send a few pairs of flush cutters to the factory. Great video.

[@Owofbfbajfbsnsn]

Chomping at the bit for that hole-making video😂

[@aguycalledlucas]

Great video. Keep them coming.

[@heatherryan9820]

31:24 I was just thinking that you were talking slower because you think about what you’re saying and coding what you say carefully. Either way, I applaud you for doing both. Also, personally I have found that with zip ties, if you cut them flush, then they have a greater chance of coming undone when pressure is put on it, but if you leave just a little bit of excess on the ever, you make sure that even if it slips a notch or two, it’s still got a little extra to grab onto.

[@87rherman]

Another great video, thank you so much!

[@Personnenenparle]

Something I recommand, using female pcb headers instead of crimped connectors. If the iron is already out and hot its way faster than to crimp a bunch of dupont connectors. I just buy the long segments and cut them sacrificing one position. You can also bridge pins quickly, make jumpers and solder some test components like leds directly to the leads. It doesnt look as clean and it might require more soldering exerience to be a benefit tho...

[@NordicLab]

Amazing as always!

[@RobertMilesAI]

How did I not know that fastener mounting zip ties exist!

[@RobertMilesAI]

What's the issue with velcro style zip ties? I like the low profile and reusability. Some brands fray but I've found some that don't

[@davidmalawey]

@@RobertMilesAI you mean just velcro wrap or something with a zip action?

[@zkasprzyk]

One thing - never tin the stranded wires when crimping anything on them. That's never a good idea if reliability over long time is required.

[@HMPirates]

Tinned wires always become loose over time in clamped connections. It's an absolute no-no.

[@davidmalawey]

well, then disregard the part where i claimed it could help. I have done it a few times and followed up heating the ferrule to remelt the solder. if you don’t mind, what js the publication recommended as an authority on solder & crimp standards?

[@adrianovianawerneck472]

@@davidmalawey I suppose he is saying not to solder first, then crimp later. I fail to see how tinning both the ferrule and the wire together could cause problems however. Seems far fetched to me.

[@tissuepaper9962]

​@@davidmalawey NASA publishes workmanship standards for high-reliability applications.

[@Cydget]

@@davidmalawey Not sure about connectors but J-STD-20 is for smt parts. I do remember seeing nasa standards on proper connectors and wire joining techniques.

[@pauldorman]

I think cable lacing is often overlooked these days, despite it being a very elegant way to manage cables in more complex assemblies. It's dirt-cheap, easy to learn, and effective. I believe it is still the most commonly used approach in the aerospace industry. The only downside I think is the time it takes, but it is also superior in many ways to cable ties, spiral wraps and other systems. Installation and removal of laced cable bundles is often easier because they are less likely to snag (than those with cable ties, for instance), they add very little mass, are less likely to damage fine wires, and can be flexible or semi-rigid, depending on the application. If you're interested in learning how to do it, there are many guides and standards that contain all the information you could ever need, such as NASA-STD 8739.4A.

[@beyerandrew]

I spent the whole shortening cables chapter staring at the laced windings in the background thinking "we're finally getting there" but no such luck.

[@johnboyboy919]

Wish we could see more on the actual building and cabling process and iteration rather than finished projects

[@davidmalawey]

this made me realize i did not build anything during this video. i think each video should have at least a segment of building so let me try to implement such. if you have an example video of some building action (of any craft) plz share a link - i can see what dialogue and shots made it helpful and try to imitate.

[@itstrysten]

i think the indentation on the cutters you referred to is the blade "camber"

[@76mmM4A1HVSS]

cool video about wires

[@henslee]

@22:11 everyone got a few of those old vacuum cords

[@sblowes]

Watching this in September 2024, and it still holds up! 29:00

[@Wil_Bloodworth]

Hi David. Glad I found your channel! Quick question... at 22:41, you're showing an AC cord with two ferrule connectors on the other end... I'm a huge fan of safety so what are your thoughts on having one of the wires slightly shorter than the other to dramatically reduce the possibility of the two ends accidentally touching when someone plugs the cord into mains? I know there is a tradeoff because you now have to plan for how you're going to mount those into some receptacle but it might be worth it? Clearly, the ferrule end will have to have more insulation removed and more internal wire exposed since the lengths would not be manageable if they are of slightly different lengths. Thoughts?

[@davidmalawey]

That is a good suggestion in my opinion (not having any accredited training in AC power). When I splice an AC by soldering + shrinkwrap, I started doing this. So, if the whole joint came loose and all the shrinkwrap vanished, the powered end of my LINE exposes just slightly further than the insulation on my NEUTRAL, and then the opposite cut is made on my load side. Sometimes I don't share those methods because at that point, I am suggesting a method specifically for safety, and I don't want people to think they could follow my advice instead of standardized protocols. I know it makes me more safe, not sure if it's good enough to make everyone safe.

[@Wil_Bloodworth]

@@davidmalawey Thanks!

[@stefanguiton]

Excellent

[@LarryLarpwell]

the wolverine of cable management

[@TheOfficialOriginalChad]

I want to make sure I don’t buy a camera with auto focus as annoying as this. What camera are you cursed with? (Great video, regardless. I really needed this and it’s going to change every one of my projects from now on)

[@HyperionBadger]

I have a a clear plastic bin that says “Cable mgmt” too

[@BloodAsp]

I've gotta pull your leg here, 32:25 why do you have a open slot wiring raceway with a wire going in it's direction that is not inside of it? Is that it's official name? I've used them, but never knew their name, so that is the best I could find on a quick search.

[@BloodAsp]

Not two seconds later you go right over that topic, 10/10, nice! Sadly no mention of the wire though.

[@BloodAsp]

Recalling my work with them, I have seen a number of cases where they were in a machine for a long time, and through the years with many upgrades, the looms are overflowing with wires. I embarrassingly had to shove my wires in there adding even more bulk. Not my proudest moment, but I got their machines as pretty as I possibly could.

[@releon8295]

Observing the environment, I see two possibilities: 1) Judging by the similar blue colour of the line connected to the gauge just below the exposed line, this could be an air line and not a wire/cable, thus he keeps it outside the wire duct. 2) The blue line is a cable for a temporary setup, carries a lot of heat, causes interference, or is required to be visible for some reason

[@BloodAsp]

@@releon8295 I believe you are correct about it being a pneumatic line. In that configuration I'd personally likely shove it in the loom as well though as that is what it's for. That being said, if it is pneumatic, I would have tried doing it differently such that the line always sloped down to a condensation collection point with an easy bleed valve. I don't know much about pneumatics other than that is one thing I have heard to do to keep the lines clear.

[@davidmalawey]

Took me a minute to see what you're seeing - yes the big blue wire is a pneumatic tube and I thought about sticking it in with the wires too. I guess we can do whatever we want if our boss doesn't mind 😏 And above the gray cable track, yes there is a jerry-rigged track light system where I ran out of end-terminals and wired the source power in through a lamp. Plz do not try that at home.

[@thenewsebs]

Holding my breath to see if my idea gets mentioned

[@davidmalawey]

you might as well share it! We want to know ☺

[@JKTCGMV13]

🔥

[@almc8445]

You speak slowly? I watch everything in double speed, checkmate.

[@we-are-electric1445]

At 10:36 the power cable appears to be rather over constrained by the cable tie. Forcing conductors into acute angles doesn't do them any good.

[@pubcollize]

Might be better to title this video Cable Management instead of Clean Up Wires, while this is a form of "cleaning up" it's also not the apparent meaning in this context.

[@ganeshakalburgi2003]

🔥1

[@windowsxseven]

could you possibly RAISE THE VOLUME A LITTLE BIT, YOUR VIDEOS ARE CONSIDERABLY LOWER THAN OTHER CHANNELS

[@CheaddakerT.Snodgrass]

There's sound? I thought this was a silent-movie throwback

[@skrame01]

Lever nut connectors - there is a brand with test point contacts in the middle for measuring voltage or signals, super helpful. Also there are clear ones which allows you to see if the wire is inserted correctly, the only major fault of this connector type if you are using thin stranded wire, you can't tell by feel if the wire went into the hole correctly or got caught and crumpled up in front of it. There are also shorter ones that are about 2/3 the length of the std ones.

[@wildcatDIY]

This is one of the best videos I've watched on KZbin in a long time. Super helpful in many, many areas. Thanks so much, @davidmalawey!