How to Confederate in Warhammer 3

How to Confederate Miao Ying, Zhao Ming and other legendary Lords in Total War: Warhammer 3.
Explanation of Confederation Diplomatic Treaty Evaluation breakdown : Baseline evaluation, Relative faction strength, Main threat, Economic value, Diplomatic Prospects, War Losses
Details about how confederation works in Warhammter 3
"Confederation Science"
Reddit Discussion:
/ warhammer_3_confederat...
CA have said that they are aware of the issues with Confederation of Legendary Lords in Warhammer 3 - so expect this to be tweaked in future updates.
Big Thanks to VerySpethal and --(Valzione) for their investigations of Confederations.
Thanks also to the John of Strategy and to the many others in the modding community particularly who have spent a lot of energy sciencing on this.
#Warhammer3 #totalwar #ConfederationScience
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Legendary Total War: Warhammer 3
Livestreams Most Days
0:00 Intro
1:40 Normal (Friendly) Confederations
2:40 Betrayer Method Confederation
3:24 Bash Confederation (Siege Lockiing)
4:43 Baseline evaluation and High Relations
5:18 Relative faction strength
6:14 Diplomatic prospects???
6:23 Main threat
8:18 Distance
8:28 War losses
10:32 Bribing/Economic Value
11:15 Summary

[@spoonyofsalty1167]

I actually hate this. Really don't want to jump through so many ridiculous hoops to get confederation. Hope it gets tweaked soon.

[@Ahlecc]

I agree, an almost 14-minute video explaining all sorts of convoluted tricks and basically exploits should not be necessary to getting a confederation. I think it just shows how absurd it is in this game. It's something that should happen much easier just playing naturally.

[@kirkcrawford5091]

There is a mod on steam that helps with this removes their base stat that makes them hate you or something. It works used it on my most recent playthrough. Still gotta get them to like you a lot

[@Branpanman]

Agreed. I like trickery and smoke and mirrors as much as the next Son of Sigmar, but this is just ridiculous.

[@MercytheMad]

Yeah I think it needs a tweak. They already said they are aware of the issue.

[@spoonyofsalty1167]

@@Ahlecc Pretty much exactly what I was thinking. Always love Mercy's breakdown vids, but this looks painful even with cheese.

[@picklefathernurgle2719]

Nice. Now, hopefully, I'll be able to actually confed Miao or Zhao as the other. It was insane how much more that Miao needed during my most recent Cathay Campaign. Picked up the game on a lark before IE launched, played Zhao, and became the most powerful faction in like 30 turns. Woman had over 250 relations with me, was my ally, had tons of allegiance built up and yet still had a -98 chance to accept confederation. Ridiculous.

[@MercytheMad]

Yeah I was pretty dubious of -- and VerySpethal but once I tried it for myself, I can confirm it IS doable (reliably) .

[@mordor1779]

Personnaly I just installed a mod for easier confederations, it was ridiculous how hard it was and how many different things you have to go your way at once

[@rossjackson8259]

I don’t mind somewhat difficult confederations especially if there’s lore fluff that explains it but there really should be events or special missions to help make it happen. A quest line or battle to do it might even be awesome.

[@MercytheMad]

yeah, that kinda stuff is good.

[@boomerix]

Yeah missions like the wood elves or defeating the faction leader as the Orks or Norsca, as well as the Elector count mechanic are all nice in-game mechanics that let you confederate in a lore friendly manner, requiring you to put in some effort. The way shown in the video just feels incredibly cheesy and if you are forced to abuse game mechanics to get a confederation that's just immersion breaking.

[@M.L.official]

Yeah but this is way too over the top.

[@Kasaaz]

That Backspace trick for zone of control is something I had never known. That's useful in a bunch of situations.

[@MercytheMad]

Yeah it is really useful.

[@GeneralPose]

Its great for stopping armies that are weaker than yours and just keep retreating to outside your movement range. Just backspace just before you engage them and they can only attack you next turn. IIRC factions with underway stances can still sneak away but its pretty likely that you will catch them in the underway.

[@MercytheMad]

@@GeneralPose Nice one!

[@Milenos]

imma use that to be a dick!

[@millerrepin4452]

Virgin Cathay requires 14 minute video to maybe get a confederation Chad orcs confederation through one battle with the faction leader

[@MercytheMad]

Hahah so true.

[@nathanspreitzer6738]

I’d prefer they just A: made it easier B: make you complete a quest to confed C: put the confed behind a benchmark like own 30 settlements or defeat X faction or Own X settlement

[@theonesithtorulethemall]

D: let you psy for the last 2-3 points

[@krister662]

i found my own method to do it as cathay. i swoped settlements so the confed target had all their cities (except the capital) inside the chaos waste. they took huge army losses and i got a lot of possitive attitude while doing it

[@MercytheMad]

That's genius! love it!

[@theonesithtorulethemall]

Lie, thats faaar from enoth, deren if they have 1 settelment, no army, 250 relationship, and you have 8 armys, they wont conferderate

[@krister662]

got the save file as proof though. ( it was vh vh and not legendary, if that makes confeds easier. but that is how i did it. )

[@cohortConnor]

I think what makes it work is how easy it is for the ai to confederate. I want to play the same game as them and vice versa. Edit: also I must say it’s insane how little the ai will give you for something like non-aggression or trade compared to how much they will demand from you.

[@AgentHurley]

Looks like the "easier confederations" mod is a must have

[@WhirlwindHeatAndFlash]

Your videoquality on topics where you explain game mechanics are always really in depth and uniquely useful. Kudos

[@MercytheMad]

Thanks mate. This is my favourite type of video to do, although they take a long time to make. Sometimes weeks or months.

[@the_devils_jester]

It's really weird. For some reason CA wants us to play without exploits, but then force us to use exploits for confederation.

[@veryspethal7800]

Great video Mercy! That explanation of War Losses and ZoC Locking was absolutely on point! Only note for those confused at 5:09 where the 'Baseline Evaluation is 55 lower than at 5:14, that's because the Baseline Evaluation of 95 was for Confederation alone. The Baseline Evaluation at 150 is for both a peace treaty and a confederation.

[@MercytheMad]

Thanks @VerySpethal you are truly a font of knowledge

[@Meyna86]

Mercy the Mad Scientist back with another great video. Regarding Cathay, I remember Radiant Ash saying you can get the other lord to confederate by getting relations above -40 and threatening them.

[@MercytheMad]

Thanks for the info. Personally, I don't rate threatening though, as I believe it is random and if it fails then you are at war with them.

[@shalax7881]

@@MercytheMad If the chance is above -30 for confederation, threatening usually works and you can always reload if not - cheese it while its so broke

[@zedek_]

Threatening is an interesting idea. I don't use this option very often.

[@AureliusAntoninusCaracalla]

amazing video mercy, but seriously, the fact that you have to besiege them with one man armies and incrementally encroach upon them millimetre by millimetre shows just how broken confederation is on warhammer 3. you should be able to confederate any faction as long as relations are above 200 or so in my opinion, anything else is just silly and ruins the playthrough. this needs to be patched.

[@MercytheMad]

I think the mechanics are good, it is supposed to be good relations + they are weaker + they feel in danger/need protecting. That's all fine, the numbers are just a bit off. If they dropped the penalty by 10 points it would be less rare, by 25 points and it would happen fairly often over the course of the game. 40 points and it would be easy. The mechanics aren't the problem IMO, just the numbers.

[@AureliusAntoninusCaracalla]

@@MercytheMad agreed, the mechanics are sound in almost all respects other than how impossible your so called “friendly” confederation is with other legendary lords. For example, playing as Boris it is almost impossible to confederate katarin or kostaltyn without resorting to bash confederation. Now for me, resorting to bash confederation is totally viable with the orthodoxy role playing wise as history is rife with kings having to smack their priesthood into compliance. However I think it goes completely against Boris’ MO to destroy settlements belonging to his daughter and regent in kislev while he was frozen in ice. Role playing wise it doesn’t sit right with me!

[@1perspective286]

Thanks for explaining this insanely convoluted system so well.

[@MercytheMad]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Exo4r]

Good explanaition, straight to the point. Thank you!

[@MercytheMad]

No problem, cheers mate.

[@anathar8830]

As Yuan Bo, I confederated Miao Ying really easy. My relations with Zhao Ming are 350+ and the chances of confederating him are stuck at -18 and refuse to get higher. He is by far the most stubborn LL I’ve ever had the displeasure of being friendly with.

[@thetoastedtelepath8908]

CA: We know confederations are VERY important to players. Also CA: we’re going to make confederations WAAAAYYYYYYY harder in warhammer 3. 😡

[@phnexOice]

i understand wanting to balance it out by making it hard to confederate LL's but the difficulty in the current build is just ridiculous, toning it down even a bit would make a big difference. Maybe have the player fulfil certain quest or battle requirements to confederate specific legendary lords, even previously defeated ones who lost their faction (IMRIK AND GROM!)

[@Debilinside]

There is a workshop mod that does exactly that. I'm not home so I dont know the name from the top of my head but the only thing it does is cutting the baseline evaluation value in half for LL which seems to be a nice balance.

[@iron2162]

Great vid! Playing a co-op and my buddy was struggling to confed Zhao. This should help out lots!

[@MercytheMad]

Yeah this should definitely help you understand some of the elements at play.

[@AliothAncalagon]

I personally stopped bothering with confederations altogether. I strategically forge alliances, trade settelements, develop my empire and if a convenient minor confederation for two settlements is possible I go for it. But I have never seen it ONCE yet that this approach lets you confederate a legendary lord. So I just stopped caring about getting another legendary lord in general and simply throw them out the window, once they annoy me too much.

[@sc2822]

So in immortal empire, start the crisis as early as possible (15-30T), then they will be the main threat for you to confederate. (Plus they can destroy your target’s armies)

[@MercytheMad]

Maybe, although crisis might cause more problems than it solves.... :P

[@sc2822]

@@MercytheMad it’s worth it: for science!

[@theonesithtorulethemall]

@@MercytheMad but none of the crisis start in cathey, the closest are in mountains of mourn, and thats easy to hold

[@JustSome462]

There is also the option to treathen the AI into a confederation, but savescum is basically required since it appears treaths are RNG based (But your odds are better if you are much stronger). The problem is that it destroys your reliability so everyone else starts hating you, but that's how i had confederated Zhao last time, bullied him and left him with a single minor settlement in the Mountains of Mourn, then showered him in gifts, made him love me, got an alliance and got him into a war with Greasus and a bunch of others, then threatened him to confed. Either way confederations right now are complete trash and i actually feel de-motivated to play IE because of it, i won't touch it until there is a mod that fixes it

[@xandroy1273]

I honestly don't get why you cannot buy a confederation with allegience points depending on relative strength and so on. Seems perfect to me

[@MercytheMad]

Yeah @VerySpethal suggested something similar. Sounds like a decent idea.

[@wolfremus2521]

Stockholm diplomacy: lock a character inside for a long long time, eventually they will start to love you.

[@---js9qz]

Well explained and quite simple to do in just 3 steps of: 1. Bash them to the last settlement 2. Get a major faction to join war against target or preferably make the targets allies cancel treaties(first time these Diplo options actually get used in decades?) 3. Get friendly relations with the target by combo of bribes, hero actions vs their enemies, fighting etc. And you are done. Only issue with the system is the baseline and/or capped values for relative strength and unclear threat system. If I'd have to add something, it'd be that all this is easier to do if you can get your confed target to join wars against as many factions as possible before bashing to make it easier and faster to grind hero actions.

[@MercytheMad]

Good points!

[@ThetrueDrnastyflaps]

For Cathay they should just add a certain cap or perhaps a questbattle triggered after you hit certain requirements which if won forces a confederation.

[@morland192]

this is great information Mercy - thanks for the video. Unless CA change it (and they should) everyone will mod out the baseline evaluation penalty once one becomes available. With impossible confederations and 100% minor city or siege battles, this will make IE extremely tedious

[@MercytheMad]

I imagine it will be extremely easy for mods (and CA) to reduce the baseline by 20 points or whatever, but I don't know anything about coding.

[@morland192]

@@MercytheMad yeah it will just be a parameter - a numeric value would be put in there so you should just be able to change it or remove it. So it should be an "easy fix" if CA wanted to do it.

[@Khayne]

Great video. Very informative and interesting. 👍 My question is this though: Why does every mechanic in WH3 feel like you're paying to get pegged by a large hairy guy with an industrial wrench..?

[@MercytheMad]

Haha, great imagery! Yeah, there is lot of good stuff but a few questionable decisions also...

[@imouto8517]

very impressive mercy. Only meaty explanation i've seen

[@MercytheMad]

thanks mate, was a team effort. -- and VerySpethal did most of the hard-sciencing.

[@73WARLORD37]

best explanation of the system! thanks!

[@hoodsthirteen8710]

Great video Mercy.

[@MercytheMad]

I

[@TonyTheTerrible]

i think the proximity of ogres+cathay is a problem as some of them arent natural enemies and they just beat down their common enemies. another thing is cathays caravans let them encounter far more factions which adds to the RNG factor, and the caravan army + all the equipment gained along the way really adds to their believed strength. to add a tip, whenever another AI faction enters a realm for the soul race, the world seems to be at war the freshly spawned factions in the realms. this lets you add free diplomacy points to start the campaign off with by offering to join war against the factions inside the realms and you can sometimes get them to join war against a common enemy out of it. another thing to note is some factions are easier to gain relations with once *they* encounter a natural enemy. its most notable when playing as tzeench as you can just give them settlement near their enemies but there has to be more ways to introduce them. maybe having an enemie's hero follow your heros around? idk

[@horrocko]

And that's why I run a mod that gives a bonus to baseline evaluation once you hit +150 positive relations...

[@thescreamer8625]

Also there is an option where u can take their army in the early with the diplomathy points so they loose a lot of strength sometimes with threaten them when they almost confederate it wprks

[@TheDrexxus]

Since people seem to have different opinions about this, I wish there was just an option when you first start your campaign to "enable lore restrictions" or something like that. While on, it would prevent confederating settra at all, or settra ever confederating Arkhan, and shit like that. If there is a lore reason why it would be impossible or difficult, then have it apply with that option on. If it is off, then fuck all that noise and let people confederate if they feel like it because they like to Catch Em All with their race. I think that sometimes people get so wrapped up in Lore or Realism or whatever other things people can get really hung up on and forget that these are video games and the primary purpose is fun and entertainment. Not everyone wants to play the game the same way and not everyone cares (or even knows) the lore, they just want to make big armies and smash them together in much the same way that kids would take GI Joe action figures and have them fight Xenomorphs just because they thought it would be cool to do in that moment. For some GI Joe fan to burst into that kid's room and scream "NO! NO!!!!!!! NOOOOO! GI JOE NEVER FOUGHT XENOMORPHS! IT ISNT LORE ACCURATE" is the same level of shit eating stupidity that some internet nerds go off on about stuff like this. Its a game. Make it fun. Leave options open for people to enjoy it how they want to enjoy it, don't argue against other people's fun just because you personally don't like that playstyle because it is intensely shitty to do. If you want to never confederate certain lords as other lords, then simply don't do it, you don't even need a mechanic for that. And at the end of the day, its still just as lore breaking for certain confederations to happen anyway and having a big negative modifier doesn't change that, it just pisses people off.

[@DragonAmongClouds]

Hopefully The Betrayer style isn't the one we have to do ; hopefully they support the other two options better, because I don't really want to have to follow my ally around just to sabotage them. I don't mind the last option if they're that unwilling

[@heroofwarfare6779]

Something they can do to fix plus make confederations more *spicy* is to have some missions/quests that gives you some options. Example: as miao ying you can get a dilemma when you reach rank 50 (while being strenght rank 10 or higher) to either get an instant millitary alliance with one of the other factions of the race (for now only zhao ming exists tho), or get a permanent buff that is alligned with one of the other factions of the race (for example +5 melee defence for all melee units from zhao mings faction), orrrr a confederation with one of the other factions of the race. BUT to get the confed you would have to do a favour of some kind. Maybe zhao ming wants you to take out a certain faction, or a certain lord, or get a certain settlement, or whatever. In my opinion this would be way more interesting than the way it is now, both in wh2 and 3. HOWEVER, this would take more work from CA, and would lead to confederations not working too well in its current state for longer. What do you think?

[@MercytheMad]

Definitely happy to see more confed related missions, that's a great idea makes it more story-like ( and also special mechanics like Bretonnian technology and greenskins/Norsca defeat Lord for confed).

[@zerg0s]

It’s a great guide but it’s so ridiculous you need such an in-depth guide to pull off legendary lord confederations in 3 when in 2 they were downright trivial to get.

[@MercytheMad]

Yeah it's a bit over the top

[@JHouston62]

End Game crisises may cause a main threat to form which would hopefully give the bonus needed

[@gregoryshinn9805]

Thanks for the video

[@MercytheMad]

np

[@dreenarmookington2240]

Looks like Warhammer science is back on the menu boys

[@MercytheMad]

Haha, good to hear form you Dreenar :)

[@jiveturky3000]

offer to give settlements and join wars works too adds bonus

[@MercytheMad]

Great points! Although, be careful, weirdly trading settlements CAN give you a massive penalty to confederation sometimes.

[@Omega068]

I am not sure what the reasoning was that led to this, maybe they just thought that the Cathay legendary lords are naturally competitive and wouldn't want to confederate normally. Regardless, when I was playing Zhao Ming I just gave up on confederation altogether, and if that was the intended player reaction then it would have make more sense to just disable the feature altogether for legendary lords in Cathay. As is, this feels broken.

[@Grails_Knight]

This looks easily Moddable. So you can mod it not to be just "insta-confed" but different difficulties of confederation. That at least looks pretty promising.

[@MercytheMad]

Yeah it seems like it would be a simple values change.

[@ShapelessFetus]

There is a mod that makes it so they will almost 100% confed or military ally with you once they reach +150 diplomatic favor

[@benjirabbe1205]

the best way to confederate is to pay them to join your wars. Hexoatl went from -15 and refusing threats to +28. he joined like 20 of my wars for 6k

[@demonbasherX]

LMAO, backspace cheesing I love it!

[@MercytheMad]

It's not cheese, I am just using it to accurately move my army to an exact point :P

[@princeowiredu2022]

This video needs to be shared

[@MercytheMad]

Cheers mate.

[@alertcriminal]

I spent so long trying to confederate the northern provinces as the west, in the end i got sick of waiting and stomped them. I hope they fix this

[@Rofel_Wodring]

I came back a couple weeks to wh3 played as Miao Ying and could not confederate Zhao Ming at all. Got very close though. I'll try these when IE comes out.

[@MercytheMad]

Hope it helps

[@ShapelessFetus]

get the mod that makes Confed a guarantee at +150 relations. Without it, confederating is more about betraying them or hoping they get almost wiped out early game

[@trianqren127]

The Return of The King

[@MercytheMad]

Haha

[@ApsisApocynthion]

In just 10 easy steps you too can do this one thing that should otherwise be easily done in a single click! How to confederate in WH3: Both volumes now in a single book. Click here to see how this one man can confed Cathey every time. Developers hate him! Short on LL and tired of generic Chinese man with moustache melee lords on horses? Follow this in-depth guide to see how you could experience all of the variety of a single extra dragon lord in your faction. (Armor of Destiny guide sold separately)

[@LasseHempel]

I really love this video. "Here's the discussion. Here's the gritty details. Here's what i think." I greatly enjoy being given the option to make my own opinion, before the creator presents their own. I agree, though. I don't mind it being a challenge, but I do think it requires a little too much hoop jumping right now. Shave off 15 - 20 points and I'm happy.

[@MercytheMad]

Glad you liked the vid, thanks for the comment. I didn't really think about the order, that just seemed like the natural way to do it :)

[@aurious5821]

sucks when its hard to get all the legendary lords through confed but I definitely like how rare AI factions confed now

[@unifieddynasty]

Great video. Agree, confederations should be hard but they should be reasonably possible without having to engage in cheese.

[@wilhelmthegreat]

nice vid

[@MercytheMad]

Cheers mate!

[@lockout6896]

Quickly finds the mod that makes confederation possible 👍👌

[@MercytheMad]

haha copout!

[@thatbrohh2366]

Do you know much about military alliances and if they're worth it considering the trade off of getting you higher relations but making your ally consider themselves stronger due to their alliance with you?

[@MercytheMad]

In warhammer 2 Defensive was fine but military could make them think they were strong - but I found the difference to be negligable. Haven't tested in WH3 yet.

[@teddyGros]

Please change the name of the video to something with "Confederating Legendary Lords". This is a really good video and subject, and if you'd change that to that title you'll get more views!

[@MercytheMad]

Thanks for the tip - but it might be confusing for people if I changed it now.

[@Blate1]

I'm playing as Imrik and trying to confederate Caledor, but for some reason the button to confederate isn't there at all. Why would the button not be there? It's there for other Elven factions that I initiate diplomacy with, by not Caledor. I currently have 204 positive relation with them and a military alliance. What gives?

[@yourfinalhiringagency3890]

How do I confederate with imrik and caledor? I did not get an automatic options to like the quest said....

[@MercytheMad]

It's bugged I think. Just wait for patch

[@NahtsWorld]

Confederate, Take over politely or Take over forcefully, Both a win win

[@ImperativeGames]

Good video! But, to be honest, main thing I got from this video is that I don't want to play TWW3. I'll return to my High Elf campaign in TWW2 ^^

[@yumisynthia942]

I don't understand why they had to make confederation so different in WH3. WH2 was difficult enough IMO for confederations and I enjoyed how the system worked. But NOW it seems that the only semi-guaranteed way to get a confederation with LLs is through pretty convoluted methods. Why do I have to attack and obliterate the faction I want to confederate? Relying on RNG to lower a faction's strength enough to confederate isn't fun. Attacking your confederation target to lower their faction strength isn't fun. Just an overall meh change to the confederation system in my eyes.

[@MercytheMad]

I think the system is OK overall, just needs to have numbers tweaked to be a bit easier so it CAN actually happen naturally when you become very strong.

[@yumisynthia942]

@@MercytheMad I really do hope CA makes a few number changes because from most if not all of the IE content I've seen so far, Confederation with LLs has been pretty difficult. Until then though, thank you for the guide! It helps!

[@MercytheMad]

@@yumisynthia942 Yeah they have already said they will be looking at it. So we'll see

[@yumisynthia942]

@@MercytheMad We shall! I just saw the new 2.0 patch video and I noticed them saying there were Confederation changes. I don't know what exactly that means, but hopefully it's for the best!

[@MercytheMad]

@@yumisynthia942 Yeah I'm not sure if that's further changes or just the ones already in the Pre release that we have

[@Rysdad1]

There's a 4th way, you can ally with anyone by constantly giving gifts to raise relations. Money always works. +10 for $2000, +40 for $8000

[@MercytheMad]

Relations is separate from Deal calculation. Constant gifts WIL guaranteed raise relations, but mega high relations does NOT guarantee confederation.

[@egg-iu3fe]

no that doesn't work, I was gifting money to nakai until I got to like 50 relations and the confed value was still -70. it also makes you broke fast

[@Rysdad1]

@@MercytheMad hmm I did not know that. So they have to be weak or in fear of being wiped at to confed?

[@MercytheMad]

@@Rysdad1 it's a combination of a lot of things. Relative Faction Strength is the main sorta base thing I guess, but then there are bonuses for high relations, Lord Wounded, Survival Mode (if they are about to be wiped out) and penalties if they have recently taken a province, if they consider the player a strategic threat etc. Also check out my how to confederate Tyrion video for some more details.

[@Rysdad1]

@@MercytheMad I'll do that now actually, thank you so much I really appreciate it

[@Birdzlitlehelpr]

Much easier to download a mod and the problem goes away. Either easier confederation, easier diplomacy, or recruit defeated lords mod and just stomp them in battle

[@averagebuoy3211]

It feels like an early access thing. Putting one number to -150 so people can showcase lords and see how the AI behaves as them when the AI is not getting overwhelmed by much stronger force.

[@MercytheMad]

Yeah maybe

[@lewishorsman2219]

It would be nice if you could cripple your own race factions by having military alliances with other races but have them declare war on them eg. Malekith has Taurox declare war on Hag Graef, he roughs them up, you say to Malus “hey want me to take over to help you out?” He accepts then you turn around and curb stomp Taurox.

[@11ambrose11]

This shit is why mods are so necessary in this game. Consider that by the time I might get zhao/miao, the moronic AI will probably have wasted a bunch of skill points on skills that I'd never ever choose.

[@silva2941]

mecry can you make a cofederate melkith guide turn 2 with malus?

[@MercytheMad]

Nope. I would if I could though.

[@bundleofhumble3119]

In Immortal Empires i hope we get somekind of vision or when a faction Gets destroyed You can Still recruit the LL lord.

[@gueton5200]

Hopefully toggable, hated fighting against the same legendary lord over and over again in different factions when i was trying out the mod in 2

[@peterhardie4151]

@@gueton5200 I always enjoyed it. Farm the traits.

[@hurleveur9606]

I forced them into accepting the confederation, but when it was at -30 they war deced me instead of accepting (they had an army and their capital at that moment) I feel like you forgot to mention that part, if you really want to confed them and its better than -10 it'll definitely work.

[@MercytheMad]

You are saying threaten works 100% of the time if the deal evaluation is less than -10?

[@hurleveur9606]

@@MercytheMad tbh I'm not sure what the exact amount is, and it could depends on the faction and main threat, but yes, I think -10 is guaranteed. It would probably require some further testing, and I'd imagine it's not as reliable. I did that in WH3 relatively shortly after the launch, they could have changed it for Immortal?

[@BittermanAndy]

I really just want the game to give me a clue. In my Miao Ying campaign, I'm military allies with Zhao Ming, we're really friendly - super best buddies, but I'm WAY higher than him in power (I'm #1, he's like #16 or something). I am absolutely nowhere near being able to confederate him. So... what do I do? What's holding it back? Do I break the alliance? Declare war? Give him money? Give him territory? Absolutely no idea which, if any, of those would work, or whether it would be something else entirely. Am I to just guess? The game isn't telling me. Make it hard if that's the choice, or if that's what the lore reflects, but don't make me guess.

[@MercytheMad]

This video tells you pretty much everything you need to know. I guess in game terms it is trying to tell you "No, you cannot EVER confederate Miao Ying" But then we are saying "No game, you are wrong" :P

[@d.f.4189]

Had some luck with cathay legendary lords by having a military alliance and declaring wars on 5-6 other factions when the LL was weak an draw them into these wars just to threaten them into conferdeation the same turn.. Works most of the time but not 100%..

[@MercytheMad]

Yeah, damn I should have included that strat in the "Betrayer" section! Military Alliance and drag them into wars is a classic. It's not 100% but it's definitely a useful strat in some situations!

[@chunchunmaru5128]

confederations have begone even difficultier. The baseline evaluation has been decreased to -160 for legendary lords!!

[@Kasaaz]

So Baseline Evaluation is really just a Cathay and Ogre Kingdoms thing? At least that high? Seems intentional.

[@MercytheMad]

Yeah it COULD be just Cathay and Ogres. I can't comment on other races for another 6 hours.

[@valfalos997]

I mean this is a strategy to do in the meantime but it should be fixed. Its just weird having to declare war on a faction and siege locking them into submission to get them to confederate.

[@TheWujuStyle]

yeah when you can only ever confederate LLs by minmaxing and cheesing every mechanic involved, you know something's not working as intended

[@ShadowWalker-ng1it]

it's about the same way it works in 3k and tbh for as much unwarranted flak this game got confedaration where ridiculous. There was only 2 reliable ways to achive it force and emperor to surrender during the endgame 3 way or use overpromising bug to skyrocket to +500 and you still needed to be stronger than them and treaten then into it.

[@maxp3963]

is immortal empire out yet

[@JankyDice96]

I’d beg fo a “how to play legendary difficult with Vampire Counts in wh3” 😫😫😫😫

[@regalgiant1597]

Wow I hope CA makes changes, I guess they didn't want it too easy but now its way too hard, ofc I will just use a mod if its updated for tww3, the recruit defeated LL mod, but thats not exactly an answer to this for many or even flavourful as a player.

[@thepathofpain1442]

sounds like ill just be using the mod to recruit defeated legendary lords once its ported over to IE 🤣

[@M.L.official]

Confed is like the main reason I don't like playing Cathay.

[@ak6427]

To be fair though, both Cathay LLs are solo doomstacks, so confederation shouldn't at least be easy. Additionally considering we're likely to get a few more dragon leaders in the future... I guess if you want the ultimate power trip.

[@LordVader1094]

Sure. But it'd be nice to have some difficult quest or objective that you can do to confederate them.

[@connoisseurofcookies2047]

If you could respec and revive confederated lords this wouldn't annoy me so much. If they made confederation more engaging via lord/faction-specific conditions(holding certain settlements, imperial authority, etc.) it would be more rewarding instead of just raising the confederation barrier arbitrarily.

[@MercytheMad]

A few factions have special confed. mechanics, I expect they will make more like that in future too.

[@peterhardie4151]

There is a mod on WH2 that does that. It also makes the late game more interesting as the AI does it too.

[@connoisseurofcookies2047]

@@peterhardie4151 That's pretty cool. However I feel like this is common sense and so straightforward to implement that it should be a part of the vanilla experience. Although I appreciate modders picking up the slack for developers I prefer installing mods that completely shake up the gameplay rather than being stop-gaps for poorly implemented vanilla features. And when I get too frivolous with my mod-installs I start accusing myself of cheating as well lol.

[@vladokalaba2640]

Is it posible to conf. tomb kings LL and vampire coast

[@MercytheMad]

I don't think so, but they said they are looking into confederation in future patches so this may change.

[@damo9961]

I hate the minor settlement maps so much that I actually cried. They are so common and so tedious that they completely change the game. Just uninstalled and went back to WH2.

[@re-birth8865]

im more into the historical titles myself, but it seems lie for every step total war takes forward it takes a step backwards somewhere else. i dont know whats going on but CA seems like its dealing with problems.

[@theonesithtorulethemall]

Jsut mod it, especaly with grand cathey. I reduces miao ying tl 1 gate, got all her armys killed and had 8 armys after Holding all of cathey, still didnt conferderate with 200+ relationships

[@via_negativa6183]

I Dont want confed to be too easy but maybe a middle ground would be a better idea.

[@atrubetskoy]

The grind sounds so boring. I wish CA made it a fun process like a mission or a series of missions that each add to the likelihood of a confederation. And potentially add the Norsca mechanic to other factions. If you defeated their LLC, they should also be more likely to join you if you’re at war

[@Azaghal1988]

Hmm, not sure I can trust what you say after that nuke a few days ago ;)

[@MercytheMad]

That's fair.

[@mj91212]

If they insist on making confederations this hard, the least they could do is give us Hotseat mode.

[@MrDrakDevel]

I have over 600 positive relations with the southern provinces as the northern provinces, still nothing. Had my friend (in coop) bash him to 1 base no army, still nothing. We're now on turn 120 and I've decided to kill him. Working as intended as far as I can see :/

[@MercytheMad]

:P Yeah unfortunately bashing the to nothing and getting high relations is usually not enough. Relations bonus is capped to 150 I think, anything over that doesn't make any difference as far as I can tell.

[@Keeki95]

So playing Cathay, relative faction strength seems like total BS. I can field around twelve armies, several being sentinel stacks. But somehow Zhao in his mountain exile of two settlements with two and a half armies of peasants with low level lords had something like +20 to +40 value depending on if I recently got him defeated against Goldtooth. Absolutely infuriating.

[@Riplee86]

Man, screw all this. I KNOW I will regret it in the long run, but I'd rather just use a mod to make confed'ing easier.

[@MercytheMad]

Don't do it! You will lose Chad points :P

[@killer30556]

My defensive ally lost a bunch of troops and instead of becoming easyer became way harder to confederate while my other ally became easyer. what a wacky game this is.

[@MercytheMad]

Hmm that's interesting. If they took a settlement I think that gives you a big malus to confed for ~7 turns. So they could lose troops, improving your "relative faction strength", but take a settlement in the same turn, making your baseline evaluation worse at the same time. I think it mostly is sensible, but it is not transparent so you don't know what is going on sometimes. There could be bugs too though!

[@DaHALOSHOCK]

Yeah this is way too many hoops to jump through just to confederate 1 other lord, I recommend using mods to fix this problem till it’s fixed by the devs.

[@MercytheMad]

I think it is a pretty easy fix so hopefully not too long to wait.

[@DaHALOSHOCK]

@@MercytheMad well it’s been like this since Launch so maybe but also maybe not.

[@samisainio7468]

I am really dissapointed of how impossible it is to confederate in Warhammer 3 Mortal empires as Dwarves. I used to love playing the 2nd game as Dawi and create my dreamteam of legendary lords in the hardest difficulty (legendary). Now I have tried it multiple times with early endgame cirisis or without and I havent gotten single legendary lord as Thorek. It ruins the fun factor for me in the game entirely. I play on very hard/very hard difficulty atm. I really hope they change the mechanics to be more on the fun side of things.

[@MercytheMad]

If you just want confed, best chance is go Belegar. Take belegars skill (or did they nerf it) + the +20 dwarf relation sin tech tree then DON'T help Thorgrim. Instead, conquer a trail to thorgrim through the badlands that touches lots of evil factions, then gift all lands to Thorgrim. That will give him the +150 relations with you that you need and also get him into more wars over those weak newly conquered settlments. Then let those enemies beat him up a little and watch and wait. Still not guaranteed, but I think that should work more often than not.