⚡️ How to control Thermoelectric Cooler (Peltier) Power

[@Ultrasonictwo]

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[@zar6688]

Thank you! I've been finding a source to explain these things clearly and wasn't able to find one till your video! Life saver

[@francoisstevens4349]

Great video. Thank you. I am currently planning a project that requires a TEC. I was highly discouraged, to the point of almost abandoning the project, before I saw this video. I love the idea of controlling it with a brushed ESC, it is simple and fits in with my limited electronics experience.

[@DownToEngineer]

Thanks for the explanation on PID, i was going to use this method

[@microreniassance2929]

Hi, very helpful videos. Thanks for putting these together. Although I do have to run them at 1.5 speed.... I have a question. Could you not use a PID controller in consort with a brushless speed controller and have the best of both worlds? Basically, the PID output would run to the brushless motor control so while on the pulses from the BDMC would command the TEC until the PID suggested a change due to temp rise or fall w/respect to a set point. As far as the zero voltage allowing reverse heat flow, would it not be possible to have a relay in parallel with the BDSC so that when no voltage was present due to PID control, you would supplement the TEC with a minimal voltage of say 3.5 or 5Volts? Thereby sealing the reverse flow problem? Also, from what I could understand in your video regarding the TEC analysis program, would you say that arbitrarily you would be better off at 50% Vmax rather than 100%? Or... on second thought, would it be better to control the BDSC by(as you suggested) a servo driver circuit that is energized by the PID controller? I envision something like the PID would sense a higher than set point temp and send a voltage to it's output that would turn on a DPDT relay that would send 5v to the servo driver and at the same time, 12 high current power to the BDSC. So this would actuate the speed control with the preset level controlled by the servo driver (set up ahead of time). Would this be a better way? Again, great and helpful videos! Thanks for any and all help, opinions, and wild theorizing.

[@shannonbushman]

I like this idea. Would like to use 4 modules to build a fridge/freezer that I can adjust the temp. Did you get this to work? If so which PID? It seems the PID could just replace the arduino he discussed.

[@VstromVroomer]

FYI there are logic level power MOSFETs out there, also if treshold voltage is an issue, then there is no actual issue to just using an Arduino. Just stick an optocoupler between the MOSFET H-Bridge (H-bridge if you want it to work both ways - cooling and heating) and put the 12V required by the Peltier Cell on the gate of the MOSFET trough the outputs of the optocoupler.

[@vantongerent]

Thanks for all the great videos on TEC's! Any thoughts on this concept: I have a free stream of hot air on my design, and I want to use that heat energy to boil water - and to do this I propose using a TEC to transfer heat energy from the hot air stream (using the cold side) into a heat exchanger, to boil water. Since low "efficiency" is just waste heat - wouldn't this work particularly well on a TEC? Would you recomment a couple stacked (cascading) TEC (to get the temp above 100°C), or a single TEC?

[@kopazwashere]

necro. peltiers need pretty high dt to work. id making a concept design. I would imagine, the cap here would be solder joint of peltiers.

[@robrabi8706]

How do you deal with the noise from the power supply? Since the PWM frequency on an ESC is usually between 1kHz and 2kHz, I get a high pitched noise from the PSU. Granted I’m using 3 TECs and a 30amp power supply. Would moving to a larger PSU help?

[@dummieall3150]

Think you could run the brushes esc with a fan header from the mother board on a cpu?

[@damiancavazos7043]

So the only problem with the PID is the slow response time? What if the cooler was supplied with like a 3d printer mainboard and pid controlled like that? also the problem with the mosfets is the power to switch the gate? so if there was an external power supply that was switched by the arduino using a relay board, to then switch the mosfet, then would that fix that problem? or was the frequency of switching also a problem? pls help

[@Deutsche_1]

I think the buck and the boost modules in the video is shown wrong, because buck modules normally has the heavy heatsink attached, the one shown as a buck is a step-up converter.

[@xtrnisse]

So, which one would you recommend? It sounded a bit like you recommended the brushed ESC?

[@frank8534]

So I’ve tried using bucks but the results weren’t what I was expecting. I’m going to try a brushed esc. But I have an extremely limited knowledge of this. I’ll probably fry something...

[@Moist_yet_Crispy]

Fantastic video, instant sub

[@thombaz]

There are some papers that shows pwm ruins the efficiency of the peltier module very badly. Every company I have seen advise against it.

[@tamerx5]

Can i use a dimmer switch to control a series of peltier connected series and powered by 220v?

[@kornshadow097]

Using a pid... I read that the point of a pid is that it doesn't turn on and off and it uses a variable voltage to control temps. Unless you set it up as a on/off... Which it has the option to do but you rarely use it for that... Hence Proportional Integral Differential being its name and not thermostat (on/off).

[@Ultrasonictwo]

A PID changing voltage and not current powerful enough for a TEC would be a very expensive device i would expect

[@catherinegordon-grant2768]

Hi there. I am doing a university project in which I have to cool something to -10 deg C. I have decided to use a peltier device with heatsinks and fans to do so. My intention is to use an arduino to use PWM to drive it in order to have better efficiency. I know my frequency needs to be very high and I was going to use an LC low pass filter to smooth the signal to the peltier. Do you think this is necessary or is straight PWM to the peltier fine?

[@Ultrasonictwo]

I wouldn't bother with a filter

[@kornshadow097]

what you said about the PID shown above is inaccurate.. I have that one and I have used it with the mode you describe but that is not PID mode, its on/off mode. PID uses sustained variable power outputs, I use that mode for my heating mantle and it keeps things a very consistent temp.

[@palalset]

This is true. The PID is actually trying to actively prevent "on/off" behaviour, and is exactly what you want for peltier voltage control

[@kschee4216]

PID = Proportional Integral and Differential Controller. Calculate your PID values that your curve will not overshoot your set temperature and the On-Off scenario will never happen.

[@AjayVerma86]

So what is the most efficient way of dynamically regulating the power input to a Peltier element based on temperature? Ready-made or Arduino solution?

[@Navanty]

What are your thoughts on using an XH-W1504 TEC controller? That is what that controller is for anyway. But as you kind of point out, just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

[@Maverick-xd4lb]

Will it really work conecting a servo tester to the servo connector of the ESC? this is a output connector, signal goes out from the ESC to the servo, how can you use it now as a input connection? please shed some light on this. Thank you.

[@Ultrasonictwo]

because it goes the other way around obviously

[@Maverick-xd4lb]

Thank you for the reply. I am a noob with this stuff... Sorry for asking Im just trying to understand better. Can you explain what you mean it goes the other way around?

[@aleksandarkostovic441]

Very usefull and very good video. Thank you

[@Ultrasonictwo]

Not a problem

[@DadduTalking]

How can we control it using arduino uno R3 using PID library ?

[@maisonselements1267]

how do you name the piece to control the esc ? a servor tester ?

[@stevebee959]

add a parallel load approx 25% ~ of the supply and use the thermostat to switch that draining load on off maintaining 75ish constant to the TEC switching the last quarter of supply for temp control ?

[@castingcall]

I was expecting to have a definitive solution. All of these are where I have already gone. No real solution, or how to do it. As you state, the brushed mote solution turns off and on at a rate that causes the chip to over heat. The best solution would be to use the mosfet controlled by a gate drive (to sufficiently fully open the mosfet). All these videos lead me there. The question that remains is which gate drive and which mosfet?

[@Ultrasonictwo]

Well a number of the options here are perfectly valid methods it just depends what the user is trying to achieve.. Since this was a non specific scenario it was not possible to give a specific answer

[@Loundre3]

The best way i found to drive Peltiers is pretty much with multi phase buck converters for lesser switching noise while regulating current instead of voltage.

[@castingcall]

Loundre3 That sounds interesting can you provide an example?

[@Loundre3]

www.researchgate.net/profile/Honnyong_Cha/publication/264033613/figure/fig1/AS:296442645237760@1447688842523/Fig-2-Two-phase-interleaved-buck-converter.png Link to a 2 phase buck converter. Gives the general idea of how it looks. A phase is controlled using low rds N channel MOSFETs in a half bridge configuration with the help of a gate driver. The PWM signal is used by one phase at a time. Once the PWM period ends, it switches from its current phase to the next one, and once all of them have been cycled, the process restarts at phase 1 again. Mind however that i haven't used one (yet), since they are used usually with microprocessors, thanks to their low switching noise and high current rating...and coming in difficult to use packages (prefer DIP over surface mount ones). One nice thing about it is that the load current is shared between the phases.

[@billzorn7324]

Would it work well to use a variable voltage / current bench top DC power supply? Something like a B&K Precision 1693 or 1900B. www.mouser.com/ds/2/43/1693_1694_datasheet-31592.pdf www.mouser.com/ds/2/43/1900B_Series_datasheet-894174.pdf I'm imagining this in a rather extreme setup (where money is not an issue), like trying to keep liquid coolant temps on a loop cooling an overclocked i9 and a couple graphics cards down at a few degrees over the dew point. The idea would be to control the TEC supply power remotely based on a bunch of temperature sensors and TEC performance curves, with custom control code running on an Arduino or something.

[@animalrobb3482]

What if you just ran the TEC without any type of volt/current limiting devices

[@Ultrasonictwo]

it will work just fine .. but will have horrible COP(efficiency )

[@Loundre3]

The best solution is (in my opinion) a PID controller with variable high current output and a voltage limit. Preferably with 2 temperature sensors (one on the side which absorbs heat, the other on the one releasing it), to measure how effectively it is pumping heat and also calculating the temperature difference, to get the most optimal output current for maximum efficiency. Peltier controller ICs do the job best, since they have integrated buck converters, which instead of regulating the voltage, regulates the current, and also have a PID logic circuit integrated. WIll post a link to one of them. www.linear.com/product/LTC1923

[@Ultrasonictwo]

There is no doubt that a TEC specifically designed board is the "Best" solution but people don't ask that question cos they already know it will work cos it's designed for TEC's... PID are without any doubt the worst way of controlling TEC's but are the simplest for an all in one solution

[@Loundre3]

Same can be said for thermostats (which are also commonly used) when it comes to worst TEC control. Makes me sometimes wonder how long their TECs last in such setups.

[@Ultrasonictwo]

im not sure how tangle the reduction in live expectancy would really be.... Im more worried about the reduction is electrical efficiency as the TEC when off starts to transfer heat in the opposite direction ... From the hot side to the cold side. Which it then has to move back again... Wasting power..

[@darshankhatri4105]

if we operate TEC with a higher frequency with the help of arduino & MOSFET, then the life of TEC will reduce ???

[@Ultrasonictwo]

In theory it will but not in reality.. heat cycling will cause a reduction in life.. But most pwm controllers will not cause this... I would not worry about it.

[@darshankhatri4105]

Thank you sir !

[@jpjay1584]

its called ar-DU-ino not au dri no

[@jtb8631]

You ramble so much it’s intolerable. You need to write a script beforehand and stick to it, then at the end ramble on forever and aimlessly. You did very well through the part of voltage regulators but started digressing to the point of being unintelligible once you got to the current devices.