How to Create Future Home Repairs by Notching Stringers for Kickers

[@stairbuilding]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHaQgGiplph2ZtE Here's a link to a follow up video.

[@vernseaton8636]

He is correct about the laminating causing decay, best treat all cuts with end treat then tape with joist tape then use a steel side clip tap con into the concrete

[@charliewheeler725]

Thanks for the video! What I usually do is install that notched 2x4 or 2x6 in middle of bottom of stringer so your not on very end. It ties stringers together nicely. If on concrete seal bottom of stringer with clear silicone, prevent wicking moisture.

[@ronaldKOESTLINGER]

Wrapping the bottom of the stringer with 1/8 rubber eliminating contact with the concrete will work very nicely.

[@christiangabriel6215]

Been building decks for 15 years here in Kansas and I've never once seen the bottom of the stair stringer rot out. Code requires ground contact treated lumber for deck use and we soak all our cuts in green guard.

[@stairbuilding]

Thanks for sharing and letting us know what's going on in Kansas. However, I live in Southern California and have replaced lots of rotted or termite damaged (treated and untreated) wood stair stringers in contact with concrete.

[@ctn9116]

I just replaced one today that was rotten because it was on concrete. And what sucked is I replaced it with heavier-duty ones. Somehow is was smaller than the ones I bought at Lowes. Anyway yeah it was rotten. And it had only been there for about 7 years and I had to completely replace the floor everything except for the regular joist. They were all treated lumber.but they had some kind of flooring on this deck that was not treated lumber on top of it

[@ctn9116]

Whenever I say I'd just replace one I replaced all three

[@recoverybassintv4562]

Fellow Kansan huh? Where your from

[@truthtalker7774]

​@recoverybassintv4562 he didn't answer you. But I'm from Leavenworth. You?

[@russellniebolt1493]

Thanks, great info. I've got three 35 year-old deck stringers that rotted out on the bottom. I'm having to re-do. Will use the 2-piece treated lumber method on top of the concrete pad. Makes total sense, thanks again.

[@stairbuilding]

Glad it was helpful!

[@simonforget280]

Over concrete and ground, I've been using composite plank strips as "sole" to stringers for a few years. I'm also using a 2x as blocking in the back of the stringers that is not in contact with concrete or ground so the stairs aren't permanently attached anywhere. So far, this resists very well the Canadian climates and aren't against any of our codes. Keep up your excellent work!

[@Whitehorns]

Use MicroLam stringers

[@stairbuilding]

My only concern with that would be creating a nice connection. You can usually nail or screw wood into wood creating a nice tight connection, but I don't see that with composite materials, but if it does create a solid connection, then you might have a great idea.

[@stairbuilding]

@@Whitehorns I'm not a big fan of microlam stringers on the exterior, because they could delaminate or expand when they accumulate enough moisture.

[@ryanhoeven7826]

i buy composite decking, mill it, and put a 1/2'' strip beneath my wood to prevent direct contact on the ground and wood rot, as you said a "sole"

[@huejanus5505]

Ryan Hoeven I use tarpaper or the decking product used between the deck top and the deck frame, to eliminate the wood to concrete contact.

[@carlbrown939]

Ive been using LVLs for stringers here lately. Still use the notch with a wolmanized 2x4. The rest of the stringer contacting the concrete are basically set in a bed of NP1. If Im using 2x12s, properly placed screws solve the break off problem experienced with the grain pattern. On outside stairs we fab the stringer out of steel for longevity

[@JakeMohl]

I'm a professional carpenter for over 20 years. Is the 2x4 necessary? No, why do we use it? To help keep long stingers from sliding down. I have personally framed hundreds of stair cases. NEVER any call backs on the stairs. Can the toe of the stair break of... Yes, that's typically due to a defective in the lumber or pour handling. If you're worried about the stringer rotting. You should be more concerned about how and why water is getting into your basement. DIY'ing does not replace years of experience.

[@stairbuilding]

If you've never had any call backs, but the toe of the stair can break, then why would you ever use this method again?

[@trevrev2249]

Agreed dude. I just put metal flashing under the stringer...instead this guys method takes another 1 in 1/2 off the whole bottom step is taken off...ill do it like larry Haun does it

[@JakeMohl]

@@stairbuilding any toe of the stringer can be snapped off due to rough handling or checks on the lumber not just the bottom step.

[@Na-if5ze]

I just use treated lumber. Always have on concrete. No rot, no call-backs, no issues.

[@robertaylor9218]

Bad idea for stringers unless the run is very short, PT is brittle, and lacks full strength for spans.

[@Na-if5ze]

@@robertaylor9218 I've never found pressure treated to be brittle. It's framing stock. Spruce, pine or fir. It has the same strength perspan as any other framing stock.

[@robertaylor9218]

Steve Thomas it’s brittle because of the mineral injections, it changes the strength, taking away flex. Pretty sure they have different span ratings. Sort of like lumber that has been exposed to a fire, it’s harder, but it won’t flex the same anymore, so engineers want it removed.

[@nickahrens5869]

I use LVLs for interior stringers and treated for exterior at 12” OC and with 2x4 spines.

[@fisqual]

Wider widths are generally not rated for ground contact like a good 4x4 or 2x4 in that darker green color. Putting an open cut (from stringers) on the ground is the biggest issue. One other way is treating the ends before assembly but ideally do what the video says.

[@Jackman8594]

I used to put a roof shingle under the shingle and I have also cut the bottom about 1/4" short then drilled a couple of hot dipped lag bolts into the bottom so moisture doesn't touch the bottom

[@gsh319]

1 and sometimes 2 strips of ice and water shield laid onto the heel and foot of stringer contacting the ground ,.... games over. Sealed tight and 3/16 up off the Crete. Done!

[@stairbuilding]

I still don't understand, why wouldn't you just use the method I'm suggesting in the video or have you had some type problems with it.

[@gsh319]

To use the inlaid cleats for an interior set, I was referring to outdoor work involving concrete or another outdoor set. I appreciate all your work and discussions. Thankyou madman. You put a lot of work out. Thank You

[@denverscott37]

I usually put blocks between my stringers, and attach them to the concrete, I never saw the need to notch the bottom of the stringer for a 2x4 like that. You're just chipping away at your stringer, plus it's extra work. I just finished a little set of steps and a handrail today using the block method

[@ScottKonen-zv7ez]

I like the blocking between method as well

[@PaulRobinson-p2v]

It simply holds stringers together while moving them into place if not building in place.

[@jamessadler7157]

I always put galvanized lag screws in the bottom and set it on concrete pad , you can always adjust the steps if the concrete pad starts to settle and the wood never sits in any water.

[@marvinisit]

I did mine this same way on concrete in 1997(we have been flooded from 5 hurricanes as well as several bad thunderstorm systems over that period of time) I used it to attach the stringers to the concrete to stop flexing, absolutely no rot what so ever. I also put 2 x 4's along the bottom sides of each stringer to minimize flexing. I notched the bottom edge of each stringer foe a 2 x 4 to run under all the stringers to stop sagging at the top step... I have had no problems at all... overkill, possibly...

[@ghshomeimprovements]

Old timer in Burlington Vermont has thought me to use PT for stringers and 2 2x4 or 2x6 what ever we have on site. I didn’t have any issues with yours or my teachers method. The only trick is little more math to figure out all the steps other then that it’s excellent. Totally different subject 5 days ago I went to a new clients house to look at the job. Hip roof not properly insulated or vented. 1900s house. Fiberglass insulation for 2x6 walls have been used. Crazy I always spray foam my attic it works like a charm. Could you please make a video and try to educate people on insulation. It’s very very important. Thank you for all you do. I have learned few trick from your videos and I thank you.

[@stairbuilding]

You might not like my opinion on foam insulation, but it can be found on this web page. www.homebuildingandrepairs.com/insulation/index.html

[@ghshomeimprovements]

Very interesting thank you I’ll have to do some research on foam. I have always try to think like water but seems you showed me to think harder. Have you seen attics sprayed and Damaged by the water?

[@jameswatcham209]

Stairs aren't built like this in the UK, but they still come into contact with concrete screed on the ground floor. We don't have any problems with stairs rotting away. Use a damp proof membrane between the stringers and the floor!!

[@vanessap8717]

Thank you, that's what I figured:) doing my basement stairs soon.

[@simonm8586]

If the stairs are outdoors, having a membrane will only hold rain water against the timber making things worse

[@burdman5620]

What away laying some water proof flashing tape across the face of the block you are drilling your ancher screws for the bottom of the stringers​@simonm8586

[@ikust007]

2:48 purely logic and the way I prefer to do it. Also if the 2X4 is notched in , stronger . QUESTION: my house is 1942. So the support for my front porch go through my foundation . Therefore , it doesn’t support on any outside structure , it’s cantilevered. How can I make sure that the stairs will “move” with the house over the seasons (Quebec …) ? Since I am an unplugged woodworker , I thought of making a kind of a system that would fix the stairs to the porch , kind of letting the stairs structure move a bit …?

[@stairbuilding]

I just made a video on movement, but if this doesn't help then email me some pictures of your stairs.

[@18winsagin]

Store bought stringers split or crack if you fart too loud, most are junk.

[@JohnDoe-fu6zt]

It's important to support the HEEL of the level cut on your stringers. That's the part that's critical for carrying the load. I like your version with TWO 2x4s, one at the front and a second at the heel. But I think the one at the heel is the most structurally critical.

[@roberthughes2665]

How about using sill sealer or deck joist sealer under both treated boards in your preferred example? Maybe a single treated board with stringer cut short but then use strips of plastic trim or PVC trim pieces under each short cut stringer?

[@wurkanimal]

With all exterior work I use pressure treated lumber on all the frame work including the 2x12 stringers.

[@guytech7310]

Pressure treated lumber on concrete can still rot. Best to either prime the bottom or use a sill sealer so the wood is not directly in contact with the concrete.

[@stairbuilding]

That could make it rot even faster if water gets trapped above.

[@donnicklin8794]

Not sure what code is where you are located, but in most parts of Canada, decks are built with pressure treated lumber and the use of the anti kick out board is a code requirement.

[@stairbuilding]

Could you please provide us with the building code reference number? I'm located in Southern California and even though this method was specked out by architects, I rarely used it, because of most of the reasons listed in the video.

[@roysmith3198]

@@stairbuilding People do from time to time move heavy objects up a stairway. I don't care how you do yours but I'll do mine with the most strength. You don't need a code to think about safety!

[@michaelamick8295]

@@roysmith3198unless you share specifics of what you consider where & why it is weaker nobody can learn from your assertions. I believe in the statement " Learn from the mistakes of others, you won't live long enough to make them all yourself!"

[@roysmith3198]

@@michaelamick8295 I'm not thinking in terms of others mistakes. I use what I know to be strong. Also I beef up the top connection with straps and/or extra 2x material. You can do anything many ways that is for sure. On out side stairs I run a full 2x12 cut at only the top and bottom angles to double up the outside stringers. Full length stairs need a mid span support, I'm not waiting for a mistake when I know how to add strength I do it. Just think about some of the possibilities and plan ahead.

[@lenp00]

Can you please explain what an “anti kick out board” is. I can find no reference on Google.

[@ThisIsJamesL]

1:35 Use plastic profiles/strips to sit the stringers on, rather than wooden ones as shown. That way the underside of the lowest stringer does not come into contact with the ground.

[@stairbuilding]

Plastic can become brittle and break, unless you have plastic that doesn't.

[@ThisIsJamesL]

@@stairbuilding I always make sure I use plastic that is not susceptible to brittleness/breakage.

[@chris14388]

About to build a set of stairs off my deck onto my concrete pad. For the stringers to attach to the deck there is currently only 1 header with no room for a second as the joists butt right into it. Will i have to pour concrete for 4x4 posts to give it the strength or is there an easier way around it? Maybe put blocking between the joists to act as the second header? Excuse me if that doesnt make sense im just the home owner not the carpenter lol Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[@RoboticSix]

Great video! How do you attach the stringers to the 2x4s? Toenail them?

[@stairbuilding]

Yes, exactly

[@PaulRobinson-p2v]

They can be toescrewed or attached before stringers installed,not difficult. Making a big deal over a simply done procedure.

[@arab8764]

Could composite decking material be used under stringers on concrete instead of 2x material?

[@truenorthmuskoka9077]

Thanks for tip. The previous owners placed the stringer end on concrete and its now rotting. I guess I’ll need to 1 1/2 inches off the bottom and run a couple PT 2X’s perpendicular to the stringers. Any suggestions how to make a straight cut on the stringers while in place?

[@wilhallman2890]

Nail a 2x4 to the middle of the stringer to the ground to support it and then cut if off with your favorite saw or tool.

[@roysmith3198]

Just make a small temporary wall type support somewhere not to close to your cut. Drive it up a little with a wedge to make sure there is no pressure or your saw will bind in the cut. A multi tool cuts great in hard to reach areas, blade can be turned at almost any degree, they are a great tool to have around and most are reasonably priced. The blade is very thin, I just put a 2x down and the blade lays right on top of scrap 2x and use it for a guide. good luck ps most skill saws cut 1 1/2 inches if the table is on the floor for a side way cut.

[@cajunaudits]

Possible to presassemble a stair way for raised front porch then just attach the whole thing to the rim joist of the deck?

[@stairbuilding]

Yes.

[@PaulRobinson-p2v]

I've even notched back at top of stringer to fasten to outside deck fascia.

[@leonardo47000]

I place my notch on the back ( heel) of the stringer, but it will last 50 years if you skim the bottom with a thin layer of black jack, karnack or roofing tar.

[@zeke112964]

If i coat all of the pieces will they all last 50 years?

[@stevedyer5902]

I am in the middle of this project with my deck right now. The risers are rotted at the bottom, where they touch the concrete, just as described in this video. For better or for worse, I have already purchased 2 x 12’s Redwood rough. Is there were something I could use to coat the bottom edge of the riser to prevent water damage in the future? Copper green? Other? Would it help to cut a piece of galvanized to fit directly below each riser, where it is rest upon the concrete? Thanks, Steve

[@leonardo47000]

@@stevedyer5902 I wouldn't recommend it because either way your wood stringer will be potentially sitting in the water that will collect in the metal. It's better if you coat the bottom with tar and then thoroughly paint 2-3 coats on finish materials or use sealer (something like deck sealer (oil-based) on the pressure treated or redwood stringer.

[@gregorsamsa1364]

What's the point of a notch on the back?

[@PaulRobinson-p2v]

Bkack jack, I gavent heard that name in 30 yrs.

[@arthur962]

Lot of if this and if that. Either method will work fine. Also keep in mind that on exterior stairs all pt in wintering climates the concrete will move so keep them notches a bit loose.

[@stairbuilding]

If this doesn't make sense and if both methods work for your project, then... What what was I saying???

[@bbygtr9500]

Very informative thank you I'm building new front stairs. Stringers are pressure treated. Can the stringers rest right on earth or is concrete needed to rest on ?

[@stairbuilding]

I've seen it done before in areas with deep frost lines or where footings need to be over 3 feet below top of soil. Check with local building department to see what is required in your area.

[@davesones965]

Lol I’m installing my stairs tomorrow. My old one I just cut out from the concrete. They were place on the gavel before the floor was poured and were completely rotten as you would guess

[@stairbuilding]

Seen that before:)

[@para-cad_llc]

As a former framer, I build the home to the plans. Several ARCHITECTS spec this in the stair detail. How are your stringers getting wet? Are these outdoors?

[@stairbuilding]

Yes, I understand why you would build from specifications and yes if outdoors water can be a problem.

[@stevepicchi8986]

I’ve seen pvc scabbed to the bottoms of stringers. I’m sure that might be ok on a small set of steps, but have serious doubts about large sets of steps during heavy freeze cycles. I’ve wondered if they would break apart in those situations with heavy loads on them. I personally use either Ipe under the stringers and kicker. Which is just a piece of decking board ripped and cut to fit. Ipe is extremely dense and very much rot resistance( maybe rot proof in the US). Or you can coat the bottom of the kicker and stringers with tar. Tar has been a proven long term treatment for fence posts on farms for decades. Tar keeps ground level and sub level organisms from entering the wood and starting the rot process.

[@stairbuilding]

Excellent observation and great points, thanks for sharing.

[@tegan71969]

I was thinking it'd be helpful to have PVC in 2X style lumber for this kind of application. But your comment is a good idea and I think I'll use it on my next stair project. 👍

[@tegan71969]

Also, could you go into more detail about tarring the fence posts? Do you tar them to just above ground level? What type of tar do you use, roofing tar or? Thank you!

[@leonardo47000]

I wouldn't trust pvc to carry any weight, no matter what the weather conditions. Ground contact pressure treated and a thin skim layer of roof cement (Black Jack, etc.).

[@curtisknutson3920]

It helps with vertical wall underneath

[@kackmciby1945]

I don't notch my stringer The guy that taught me everything I know many years ago never did....i've seen other people do it, but I never saw the point. I agree 100% with this video there's no point in doing that there's other ways to fasten. Most of the homes I build do not have a poured basement yet so what we do is leave the bottom riser off and temporarily fasten up the stairs keeping communication with the guys doing the concrete and letting them know to remove our temporary fastening (normally a stud nailed on to the side of one of the bottom stringers that are connected through the tread to the ceiling, and the stairs are nailed to the walls on both sides so that the trades can walk up and down them)

[@stairbuilding]

Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing.

[@common-sense-is-dead]

Untreated lumber in contact with concrete won't rot unless water is introduced after the concrete has cured. I framed my basement walls 20 years ago and didn't use pressure treated lumber. I recently removed those walls in a remodel and their was no signs of rot.

[@davidmarr5245]

However, building code states that any wood that comes in contact with concrete or masonry must be pressure treated. So just do what the code says

[@common-sense-is-dead]

@@davidmarr5245 I'm fully aware of what building code says and thats not what my post was about.

[@jamesshannon88]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that 2x material at the front designed to keep the stringer from sliding/moving forward? It's a type of block to prevent any separation from the top of the stringers.

[@Treedav21]

Yeppers! Usually has a couple concrete anchors holding it in place . I have heard it called several names like power tread or stringer kick board but it's sole purpose is to prevent the stairs from sliding down away from deck. I am in the wettest part of the country and never found rot to be that big of a deal.

[@stairbuilding]

I've never seen stairs with out the notched stringer and single attachment plate move or slide forward. Let me know if you have.

[@jeffst.laurent5449]

@@stairbuilding Just took down a pair of stairs that were sliding out. The main real issue was the footings for the landing were sinking were the stringers were attached. This cause the stairs to slide out. In theory the footings shouldnt sink... but I am sure this happens and is the real issue.

[@davidpalomino64]

I been doing this many times , but i always use PT wood to make the stringers , is that ok ?

[@stairbuilding]

It all depends upon where you're located, some areas require pressure-treated lumber to be used on the exterior of the home, but I've never seen it used on the inside of a home.

[@willbraswell4906]

Somewhat unrelated but curious if you have ever doubled-up the center stringer. It is carrying twice the area of the side stringers.

[@stairbuilding]

That wouldn't be a bad idea for longer stair stringers that might flex or move when being used. Another good idea might be to use larger lumber, for example instead of the 2 x 12, maybe a 3 x 12 or 4 x 12.

[@nunyabizznas9051]

Use lvl for stringers. Best stairs around. 3/4 advantac for sun treads and risers. Glue and screw. Spray foam under

[@stairbuilding]

Sounds good and thanks for sharing.

[@vanessap8717]

Would I be able to lay a small sheet of plastic under the stringers and 2x, or use butyl tape? Seems like an easy solution?

[@stairbuilding]

I don't see why not, if the information in the video doesn't make sense.

[@ma7rix13]

Just had a deck stair failure. Seems like the top of the stringer was connected behind the header. Cracked like you show but at the top. I can send photos… might be an interesting video for analysis. There are other strange structural issues too.

[@stairbuilding]

Yes, I don't use other peoples pictures in my videos, because of copyright issues, but I would love to evaluate the problem.

[@ma7rix13]

@@stairbuilding what is your email?

[@mr.redneck2715]

Tyvek totally disintegrates after a few years!!!! I’ve seen it time and time again.

[@327DeAd]

I have a run of 6 stairs from a landing to concrete floor 38"wide. I planned on using three 2x12 PT stringers. Is that a short enough span to be not have any issues with possible brittleness of the PT lumber?

[@stairbuilding]

I can't provide you with engineering information, but can tell you that I've seen plenty of stairs built with 2 x 12 that were at least 16 feet long.

[@Andrew-tz6bp]

It’s not engineering lol it’s carpentry and a 2x12 is lots of beef to not have brittleness happen so where I live the national building code requires not less than 3 1/2” inches of meat left on the stringer.

[@livens100]

One thing to you can do to make sure your stringers dont rot: Make sure your concrete landing has a slight slope to it. If its perfectly flat water will sit for long periods of time rotting your wood, PT or not. Also after you cut the bottom of your stringer you now have mostly untreated wood exposed. You need to apply a cut n seal type of product to the cuts.

[@stairbuilding]

I like it.

[@snoueiri]

Sounds good

[@johnnytocino9313]

Good advice. I was thinking wether notched or blocking I doubt foljs are going to treat those end grain cuts before install.

[@simonm8586]

I'm guessing you have to scribe the bottom of the stringer to the slope of the concrete else the stringer won't load evenly

[@brian644]

that notch also keeps the stair stringer from pushing away from the deck or staircase as you walk up and put weight on the stairs the method you use will over time loosen up and walk away

[@stairbuilding]

I've heard that before, but I've never ran across any damage you're suggesting.

[@jessicacallahan9711]

Idk but fyi most good fraimers use versalames now for stringer stock to avoid checks and splits so that kinda makes argumen null on interior stairs.

[@stairbuilding]

I don't remember referring to laminated veneer lumber in the video, so I don't know if it would actually make an argument null, if I didn't state it in the video as such, but you do bring up a good point. Laminated veneer lumber probably won't split like standard construction lumber.

[@natemartinez4595]

Was that English? Lol. LVL is not rated for exterior use, at least not in climate zone 5. PSL, yes, but not lvl

[@wilhallman2890]

@@natemartinez4595 and LVL can delaminate from moisture. Still not a fan of LVL... lol

[@lockingpaul]

Should leave a notch in between the 2x4’s and leave that raised above the floor1/8”. Just a thought with the double 2x4... like a younger between them.stop shifting

[@rickhotchkin3047]

Anchor seal works great in this application…

[@paulbrennan6613]

As carpenter of 35 years I disagree with what your saying I do enjoy everyone’s opinions this is how we all learn but I do disagree with you

[@stairbuilding]

Can you at least provide us with a reason why? Help out me and our viewers with some type of rational opinion and please don't tell me that it prevents the stairs from sliding, because the double plate method I've suggested also does the same thing.

[@roysmith3198]

@@stairbuilding I'll tell you one, the notch keeps the stairs from moving forward in case they are over loaded, where the top connection would fail and the stairs would fall. Having them notched prevents forward movement at the bottom.

[@tommychong1173]

@@roysmith3198 hell yeah any classroom carpenter knows that , building trades or high school shop student should know cuz that is what we were taught it keeps from walking n pulling away

[@gary24752]

@@stairbuilding No is doesn't. It is no different than bearing on the concrete or deck as far as keeping the stair from sliding.

[@andrewgarratt5191]

As a carpenter of 19 years and a spare time woodworker of 8 I do as well..... Especially in terms of pressure treated meeting concrete.... Don’t keep up Maintanance,and anything will rot,the area should stay cleared,and not hold water so that everything can “breathe” freely as possible....if this is not the case then it really doesn’t matter what you do... Yes,if you over/undercut a notch,that will cause issues...this is true in all walks. The structure thanks to gravity wishes dearly to “slide out” What you are suggesting seems to be that a series of toenails through pine are as reliable as a few redheads+1.5 inches of treated lumber locked into concrete. This just simply is not true. It’s the kind of thing an engineer or inspector would dream up in desperation to change something that’s worked for over a hundred years as a weird form of ego masturbation that all collage educated people seem to love so much. Not a seasoned carpenter.

[@DR0CK]

But what if my stringers are pressure treated also... then is first method still ok?

[@Stifle9]

In Utah the only pressure treated lumber we can get is garbage hemlock pine, I will not use those for stringers. Sealing endgrain with wax, separating with ice and water shield, or double 2x treated sleepers. Lots of options for our dry climate that will suffice

[@gary24752]

There is a reason for that. It has to do with the cell structure of the wood and how well the preservative can penetrate. This is why you will NOT find any DF that has been treated.

[@pcatful]

Thanks It's no use on a wood floor anyway. Do you ever find the bottom riser of the stringer to split. That is my issue with the notch--the bottom stringer section of the stringer is so small that it gets weaker as you notch it. I only use rot resistant wood on stringers so the stand-off is not an issue. I've seen people who notch and put the plate at the rear of the stringer. I haven't tried that. I say don't do this detail at all.

[@JonathanGrandt]

Have I anything to worry about if I use ground contact lumber?

[@stairbuilding]

It all depends on what you're using the ground rated pressure treated lumber for. If it's going to be touching the ground or soil, then you're going to have a better chance of it lasting longer than regular lumber, but weather conditions and other things could lead to decomposition of some materials faster.

[@PaulRobinson-p2v]

Still coat it with product.

[@chuckerickson6721]

The better solution is painting the bottoms and 2" up in the sides with marine epoxy. I also used a 3/8 strip of plastic screwed to the bottom with stainless screws.

[@ggtaruc2578]

I have a similar looking staircase for my deck that I am rebuilding. It is 43" wide (between posts) and happens to have 6 stringers as a requirement by composite deck mfr (Trex). The landing is composite deck board sitting on wood frame. What is your suggestion on how to secure the bottom of the stringers to the landing?

[@stairbuilding]

I would probably use screws, but you might be better off reading the installation instructions from the product manufacturer to see what they would recommend. You could always use framing anchors or angled building hardware. Let me know if this made sense.

[@wooge3199]

If using composite ......treads or risers....and it's in direct weather....cover the notches with storm guard so the screws and or nails will hold moisture out instead of soaking it up which will cause premature rotting....I learned this the hard way

[@dennisryan6370]

Our local code prohibits any stair section(s) made from untreated wood to have ANY contact with concrete surfaces....

[@stairbuilding]

That would definitely be a problem.

[@wilhallman2890]

Same here, those stringers would need to be PT. Anything with ground contact must be PT.

[@calvinmeaney1459]

Thanks for the good video. Unfortunately I’m one that has fallen into the trap of other instructions saying to use these kickers. I have already built my stringers which will sit on concrete and have not yet attached them but the kicker cutout is there. If I use your front and back PT 2x4 method my bottom step is at 3.5” of stringer height so I’m not keen on that. Any thoughts on sealing the concrete with something like dry lock and sealing the bottom of the stringer with primer?

[@stairbuilding]

You might be able to use some type of waterproofing membrane or galvanized metal. Anything to break the connection between the concrete and the wood, without creating a water trap where water could accumulate after a rain.

[@WAJSSJ]

Tarpaper should work?

[@ctn9116]

If he pre-drilled holes it will not crack are you have to do is pre-drill what six holes

[@louish.9414]

I seen lots of screws cracking stringers because of wrong size and not using adhesive. Water will find away inside screw holes using to big of screws.

[@jeromewelch7409]

So I'm confused I am not a construction supervisor by any means but isn't that term to the kicker which is a code requirement on any set of stairs inside and outside? Peace

[@stairbuilding]

You would need to check with your local building department to verify whether or not this type of stair connection is required in your area.

[@scottbrownconstruction8008]

Good video for the DIYer. For most applications, we'll use engineered stringers (not treated) with treated blocking between each (as you show). If on concrete, we will utilize the same system but add sill seal between the stringer and the concrete floor, which is the same thing you'd do under an untreated bottom plate of a wall. This creates a barrier between the two materials, eliminating moisture infiltration from the concrete. Virtually all concrete will have some measurable amount of moisture, regardless of age. We are in an extremely dry climate and yet we'll see moisture migrate from the ground, thru a slab and damage untreated wood. Certainly not common with older concrete but possible and for the 50 cents it costs to add sill seal, why wouldn't you? If there's a code question, go to IRC R317. You'll find the provision for a "impervious moisture barrier" i.e. sill seal. By the way, I take no issue with the 2x notched into the bottom front of the stringer, providing the same provisions are followed.

[@stevedyer5902]

I am in the middle of this project with my deck right now. The risers are rotted at the bottom, where they touch the concrete, just as described in this video. For better or for worse, I have already purchased 2 x 12’s Redwood rough. Is there were something I could use to coat the bottom edge of the riser to prevent water damage in the future? Copper green? Other? Would it help to cut a piece of galvanized to fit directly below each riser, where it is rest upon the concrete? What is sill seal? Thanks, Steve

[@scottbrownconstruction8008]

@@stevedyer5902 exterior is the one application we always use treated lumber on. However the irc code allows for "naturally durable wood", which includes redwood. With that said, I believe the irc specifies the heart wood, which is rarely found at the big box stores. With lumber being what it is, I doubt you're going to want to buy more, so I would probably treat the bottoms, especially the cut edge, and utilize a barrier such as sill seal. Also, be sure any water will drain away and not pool around the stringers. Be sure to stain your wood too. All this assumes your work isn't subject to inspection. If it is, I'd call your building inspector, explain the situation and how you'd like to address it and ask him if it's something they'd approve of. The guy that say "it's better to ask forgiveness than permission" is a fool and sets himself up to fail. Good luck and happy building. OH yeah. Sill seal is a thin piece of foam that is the width of common walls and usually comes in 50 ft rolls. It goes between concrete (slabs, foundations, etc) and the wood bottom plate of the wall, acting as a moisture barrier. It's really cheap and any building supply should have it.

[@trancextend]

Usually concrete sweats when its not poured correctly. That means concrete has no vapor barrier. It is a must down south. 😅

[@edawadezz]

People just use treated lumber for all members when your outside. dont cheap out. treat your cuts with wood preservative. use exterior fastenening products. Off to a great start with all that

[@tomgrantham9992]

Good ideas.

[@stairbuilding]

Glad you like them!

[@TalksWithRyan]

Only good use for what you showed in your video first that most people do, with the one strip in the notch of the front , is to anchor your steps bottom plate to the ground .

[@ianc435]

Throw and asphalt shingle on the floor. Simple.

[@D-train69]

It is the way to do it but you need the treated wood to go all the way on the bottom.

[@stairbuilding]

It is another way.

[@Xeorc]

How about a polythene membrane?

[@stairbuilding]

That could end up trapping moisture and creating problems with mold or wood rot.

[@juanccervnates8195]

How about water proof flashing

[@stairbuilding]

As long as it doesn't trap water from above.

[@ikust007]

Also : why not drill 1/4 diameters holes at the junctions in order to lower the stress forces at the “90” degree angles ?

[@stairbuilding]

I would need to see an example or some more details. Where would you drill the holes?

[@mattk6827]

@@stairbuilding A little late (only now seeing the vid) but I have a feeling what the drilled holes in the 'junctions' may have been in reference to is similar to a wedged tenon situation. When cutting the tenon for wedges holes are often drilled at the end of the cut in the corner as a stress relief so when wedges are driven the tenon can spread apart with less chance of splitting. My guess would be they were asking about similar stress relief holes drilled at the 90* where the 2x4 kicker would butt to the stringer in the corner created by notching it out. Not sure it would work that way for stringers since they can experience ever increasing loads/stresses. Where a relief hole drilled in a tenon experiences finite movement. Once the wedge is driven into it the tenon compresses the mortise, it's tight and that's it. There's no mortise to capture the spread of a stringer stressing that 90* notch.

[@CrazyManwich]

What about just getting treated stringers?

[@stairbuilding]

That might work.

[@elsathedemonwolf1035]

I used treated stringers on concrete no extra work

[@johnnybbop1]

Exactly

[@SnootchieBootchies27]

You are talking about exterior stairs here, right?

[@stairbuilding]

I've never used this method on any stairs.

[@Robertius]

Why are the stringers not made out of treated wood ?

[@stairbuilding]

You can use treated lumber, but in some cases it won't make a difference. If you live in areas where you have high concentrations of moisture, rain or snow, then treated lumber might provide you with more benefits than if you live in the desert are drier climates.

[@stevedyer5902]

I am in the middle of this project with my deck right now. The risers are rotted at the bottom, where they touch the concrete, just as described in this video. For better or for worse, I have already purchased 2 x 12’s Redwood rough. Is there were something I could use to coat the bottom edge of the riser to prevent water damage in the future? Copper green? Other? Would it help to cut a piece of galvanized to fit directly below each riser, where it is rest upon the concrete? Thanks, Steve

[@stairbuilding]

I would leave a 1/4 inch gap if possible, metal could be used as long as it doesn't trap water and root wood faster.

[@iwilfix9407]

Why not use pressure treated for stringers?

[@stairbuilding]

I don't see why you couldn't.

[@555mainesmonsters]

It's funny you mention this method because,I'm watching this video today because I'm installing a flight with 2 landings and my first caridge sits right on the concrete floor. Now,the floor has been poured with the pex tubing installed for heat. My concern with your method is the expansion and contraction on the pad Because of the radiant heated floor. Will this be a problem with lifting or swelling at all and eventually crack the finish?? I was going to use the old method BUT will place a piece of rubber flashing under the endgrain of the stringer,notch the bottom and install the pressure treated as my cleat. I like this way because of all the weight bearing down on my first caridge Do u agree or am I still doing a bad thing?

[@stairbuilding]

I don't really know what the rubber flashings going to do, but wonder if using some type of decking material like trex as a replacement to the pressure treated lumber would solve your problem. I'm just guessing and I've never dealt with this issue before.

[@wilhallman2890]

Here in Maine it is common to let porch stairs "float". So they do not get lagged to the concrete and hinges are installed at the top. This way when the ground heaves in the winter, the stairs can move with it.

[@gary24752]

No reason for frost heave if you have gravel and positive drainage that would go down at least 24 inches. I would put a pressure treated post down to frost level and secure the stringer to the post and make sure you have gravel and positive drainage at the bottom of the stringer.

[@Burritosarebetterthantacos]

Yep mines been floating for years and its good to go.

[@michaelohara2161]

I don’t understand why anyone would not have stringers out of ground rated treated lumber. I would say just don’t have blocking that holds back rain water flow.

[@DontJudasMe]

Why would you not use PT ?

[@stairbuilding]

Because you still can have a problem with it cracking if everything isn't fitting correctly or there's a gap at the bottom of stringer.

[@Jeremy_810]

Endgrain is like a thousand little straws sucking up the moisture. It's easy enough to seal, though

[@stairbuilding]

That seems like that would work just fine, but I need to ask, why wouldn't you simply install the two plates as I'm suggesting in the video. Have you had some type problems in the past?

[@ebabdbgbbbebbluesman6115]

@@stairbuilding i Like your other method! But, i have used the first method when bulding exterior stairs, when they come to land on two piers instead of a pad. A pad is better. The stringers were treated tho, so was not afraid of touching concrete, just needed a way tie it into the crete.

[@curthickman7750]

Just notch the middle one

[@thomasharmon7800]

I use a two before but I put it straight up and down service left contact on the ground and I always used three or four stringers steps are too important to be playing around with I had a set break on me on the other teenager one time I never again Largo on steps that I will build so have three to four stringers and even more

[@stairbuilding]

You might need to edit your comment, but if you're suggesting that you place a 2 x 4 on edge, where the inch and 1/2 part is touching the concrete, then I would love to see a picture of how that works out.

[@michaelmckague6839]

Pressure treated lumber isn't water resistant it is bug resistant.

[@gregorsamsa1364]

It's also rot resistant

[@jimzeleny7213]

Thanks for not begging us to "like and subscribe". That gets tiring.

[@stairbuilding]

You're welcome and I don't do it, because I don't want to see it.

[@johnelliott4521]

I use treated lumbar and strips of aluminum under boards

[@shaunpage4498]

Aluminum corrodes eventually outside against pressure treated. Causes lots of deck ledger flashing issues. In your application maybe it's overkill anyway and won't cause any issues. Just something to be aware of.

[@bolerdweller]

Aluminum will be eaten by the pressure treating

[@baubljos103]

I agree with some, disagree on some. I agree that the stringer foot tails are subject to cracks, shrinkage, and unforeseen forces. So they gotta be reinforced. I recommend a 2x12 plate instead of the double 2x4. I also recommend blocking between the stringer feet. I avoid toe nails like the plague. Only use toe nails if a pilot hole is drilled 1st. BTW, there's a bunch of idiots out there attaching handrail posts to the stringer feet. WTF! Talk about future repairs. You may wanna consider the benefits of adhesives - like exterior wood glue and exterior construction adhesives. Very helpful to add strength and durability to the wood joints. Might be helpful to consider mending plates. Or how mending plates can repair fractures, or be used to prevent them.

[@stairbuilding]

I agree with some and also disagree on some:) I like 2x4s for base connection at bottom of stringer and toe nailing. I'm not a big fan of exterior wood glue or construction adhesives that can't handle a variety of different things including the weather, but do like building hardware for repairs like mending plates.

[@baubljos103]

@@stairbuilding Really? You don't like glues? I concur that exterior applications must use exterior rated glues or adhesives. But I'm a major proponent of using glues/adhesives in addition to conventional fasteners. If you are interested to do a side by side test. Lemme know.

[@stairbuilding]

@@baubljos103 I really don't have any interest in doing any tests that might take more than 5 or ten years, however I would be willing to examine any results from assemblies you might have already built. I've only seen a few outdoor projects using adhesive and I wasn't impressed and didn't see the advantage.

[@baubljos103]

@@stairbuilding Yeah, I would not do a 5 or 10 year test. I was thinking something more like a 7 day test. I was thinking of comparing fracture or cleavage tests on wood fastened with screws only, and compare the same fracture or cleavage test on wood fastened with screws and glue. Another potentially interesting test, is to repair 2 purposely cracked risers: one with screws only, the other with screws and glue. Might be interesting if you did your test, and I did mine, and then we shared results to see which method is best.

[@cpaoutdoors9926]

Just use pressure treated lumber for the stringer’s

[@duffman1241]

3/4 inch treated plywood across the whole bottom is very solid

[@stairbuilding]

Sounds good to me as the plywood doesn't delaminate.

[@michaelgreenrose8026]

Why not stick with the 2x4 pt kickers and then add 1/2” pt ply wood to keep it off the cement. That would allow you to keep the notch and avoid any splits.

[@stairbuilding]

I think I would use the example in the video, but what you're suggesting might also work.

[@karp2005]

Why not just to make stringers with treated wood? Btw code required anything that touching concrete make from pt wood: all what need to do is just go with pt wood unless protected other way from concrete contact.

[@syproful]

Moisture barrier ?

[@wolfenstien13]

Once saw a building built on a wood Pier foundation. Those wood planks were stuck straight into the ground.

[@stairbuilding]

It's usually because the lumber was treated with chemicals to reduce or even eliminate the possibility of rotting over time in the ground.

[@wilhallman2890]

The stringers are supposed to be PT as well.

[@changeurlife3471]

Ya what are they talking about

[@farmfitnesspham4913]

That is good idea

[@ikust007]

I don’t see how putting 4 blocks touching the outside floor and the risers will stop them from rotting …?

[@stairbuilding]

It's a time tested construction method that works most of the time, but can fail.

[@samuelestepp725]

If you’re in a hurry put some heavy roofing felt under the stringers