How to Deal with Problem Players in D&D, Part 1

[@theDMLair]

Free D&D Adventures and DM Resources ▶▶ bit.ly/TheDMLairSite Get a monthly PDF full of DM resources such as magic items, new monsters, adventure ideas, premade encounters, and even entire D&D 5e adventures ▶▶ bit.ly/theDMLairPatreon More Free & Inexpensive D&D Adventures and Resources ▶▶ bit.ly/DTRPGLukeHart Twitch Live Streams ▶▶ bit.ly/TheDMLairTwitch Pre-Order my Kickstarter Into the Fey ▶▶ www.kickstarter.com/projects/thedmlair/into-the-fey

[@DDann99]

Hey Dm Lair, i belive your video helped me. I belive gave me a lot to reflect with, i started dming 2 years ago, i had a main group of 3 players, one of wich had played a game with a more experienced DM along with me, wich is our friend in mutual. Since i was a new dm, extroverted but also shy and with a little of anxiety i would just try to make a funny game for everyone, but this one player would constantly argu in his favor, try to in most ocasion's give a turn of event´s as he like (for ex: You see this queen who is asking our help? Lets kill her and take her kingdom) wich, since i was a new dm didnt handle as well as i should. For some time just ignoring this ideas and main plans since the rest of the group didnt agreed with him. With time i would try to talk to him but he would justify that he could do that since his caracter would and that, in a case like that, our mutual first dm, who wasnt playing, wouldnt do like that (a matt mercer kind of effect), and that would sting on me, i was trying to be a good dm and that, as I see, was a bully move to get what he wanted, even if wishing no harm. Since the othe players wouldnt intervin in his behavior or have my back when something like this would apperar, i wouldstart even more get annoyed with his behavior (he would metagame, forget about the game day making us wait for him for 40 min, be a murderhobo and even cheat on a "sneaky app" where he would keep rollin his virtual dice till a lot of bad rolls would follow so he could cheat the app to have more chances for a good number.). I started to present the problem of givin consequences in game for out of game things, wich i see now a day that was a toxic behavior generated for toxic behavior. A few days ago i had a conversation after session with some new dnd friends, compared to my fist group, and i once gain complained about this problem player, wich has become a bad habit, and one of the players, that has played since my first dm game, said that i would stay behind to punish him and for that he couldnt agree that much about the problem player behavior, wich nowadays i agree that wasnt the best. My point of this story is that in a game of dnd is up to improvement, but need's to have a chance of improvement, i belive i have improved, as i wich the problem player have, as well as the other players, who would not take notes, stay on their fones, and basicly complain about the problem player when they where the ones affected insted of saying something when it was against anyone. The harmony of the table is up to evryone and the dm is not the babysitter and not the only one responsible for the quality of the game.

[@legendgames128]

I want to be a murderhobo where my character wants to be a good person but I force him into bad things. I accept all consequences.

[@kyleward3914]

One of my players once came up with a line worse than "It's what my character would do." It was "It's what my character would do when he's this drunk."

[@PedroAugusto-xp4tt]

I know not if this man needs an award or not

[@eclaire1748]

Jail

[@Veran42]

I don't know if I should laugh or cry

[@kyleward3914]

@@Veran42 Why not both?

[@shentino]

IC actions, IC consequences.

[@kiriktheorc]

I'm keeping "because that's what a dungeon master would do" in my belt, lol!

[@Beth-cj7ip]

Need to put this on a Thor "because that's what heroes do" meme

[@theolddm]

Luke needs to add that to his DM Lair shirt line. I would totally buy that one.

[@Lakthul]

Same lol

[@collinsly6856]

Used the line against one of my problem players, never have i seen someone FLY into a rage so fast about dnd.

[@blazetheplaneswalker]

me too

[@Señor-Donjusticia]

This advice doesn’t just apply to RPG games. It’s a little funny, but I work as a grade school teacher, and after watching several of your videos, and similar videos like it, I’ve started to think of my classes in DND terms, with the teacher as a dungeon master and the students as players. I remember once being tempted to punish a student, who was flippantly trying to derail the class with the kinds of silly comments and questions that usually mean, “I’m bored and don’t want to be here.” I thought of just giving him a bad grade for the assignment, but stopped, reminding myself that his performance on the assignment wasn’t what was at issue, it was the disrespect towards the other students and myself who had come to “play the game.” I chose to take the student aside and address my concerns directly while giving him another chance to complete the assignment. I’m happy to say that, instead of creating an adversarial Dungeon Master verses Player dynamic, we were able to come to an understanding and now my “games” run much more smoothly than before.

[@TredecimMusic]

Man you gotta give a seminar on that philosophy :)

[@JSanime]

I used to have a rules lawyer in my group. But not like you defined it. He was an actual lawyer and knew all the rules really well. I often consulted with him on how unfamiliar game mechanics worked because he could tell me faster than I could look it up. He moved away and it was definitely a hit to the group.

[@primeemperor9196]

"The odds of your DM seeing this video are pretty high." Well, considering I AM the DM.

[@SladeByReality]

I think my favorite thing you said was "I don't allow pvp" just completely removing the option seems like such a good way to improve the game.

[@phoenixknight8837]

There may be times when there is an in story explanation for why a character would do pvp e.g. to stop a character being controlled by another entity.

[@theDMLair]

I'm going to tell you I removed PVP for my games years ago and it is awesome. There has never been a time where we were like oh we miss PVP. But when PVP was allowed there were many times when we were like this sucks why is X person screwing over y person.

[@SladeByReality]

@@theDMLair I had a pvp incident at the beginning of a campaign I played in and honestly it ruined the entire campaign. Without that moment (a player tried to kill me after two unlucky wild magic rolls) there would have never been tension at the table.

[@SladeByReality]

@@phoenixknight8837 I think that would be a clear exception that you could make very clear doesn't count as pvp.

[@fredbloggs7131]

In the game I've just started I've told the players no PVP unless it's preplanned and important to the story, sometimes it can be dramatic but all parties need to be down with it.

[@Brashnir]

I've found that the best way to deal with a player who acts against other PCs is to simply stop the game when it happens, and address the player being acted against. "Are you OK with this? Is this something you can find fun in?" If they are OK with it, I then ask the original player, "And are you OK with them doing similar things to your character?" The action is only allowed if both are in agreement that it's OK and that they can treat it as in-character shenanigans with no personal animosity. That way, it's 100% buy-in on the part of the victim(s). Some people can have a good time going back and forth with little swipes at each other, and some can't.

[@Unsensitive]

"That's what my character would do" *Watches party members murder player as a spy for the enemy*

[@louiebradford1466]

Luck: The chance of your DM is watcing this is.....Verry high sorry Me the DM: what no I'm not getting ideas

[@theDMLair]

Yeah problem players everywhere AR trying to hide this video from there dungeon Master's.

[@inappropriateperson6947]

I liked this video the moment I heard that one. _You should too_ _I paused & scrolled right down here looking for this. Am I the only one_ ?

[@TJTrickster]

Hmmm, yes lady luck is hiding as Luke

[@Billchu13]

"Who would argue over the definition of how to measure something?!" Wargamers

[@Boom__6678]

Yeah, a lot of us do. Even me sometimes... I try to keep Madill to middle base distance for measuring unless the rules say otherwise

[@adamkaris]

Me, a guy: *nervous sweating*

[@dongeonmaster8547]

Shad of Shadiversity.

[@SirToastyIII]

No joke, the last edition of warhammer had to be errata’d because people practically DEMANDED a definition for the terms ‘within an inch’ and ‘wholly within’

[@jasonreed7522]

I mean there is a field of study called "metrology" which is literally the study of measuring things. Granted the goal is to ensure that we have standardized methods of measure for some rather insane accuracy and precision. Im sure they have "heated debates" on stuff but not for the purposes of what that player tried. DnD distance can be measured either as every tile border crossed = 5ft (basically the same as center to center) which isn't quite perfect for diagonal distances. Or you have a grid that is properly scaled to say 1in real world = 5ft game world and you can use a ruler to measure center to center if its perfectly in range. So the common 30ft range becomes 6in of gameboard in my example scale, probably most needed for flying enemies or otherwise targeting in 3 dimensions at once. The tile counting is usually the easiest for movement where as spells tend to get the true value with a ruler/tape measure.

[@rip4324]

I love you mentioning the no homebrew rule and limiting some races. It's exhausting dealing with the bizzare garbage people have made online or is on D&D beyond and my players claiming "it's fine."

[@agsilverradio2225]

"Becuase that's what the dungonmaster would do!" Good comeback, barbarian.

[@cyanideytcuriousseadoggo]

If I had to say something, “I’m saying this is out of character but lol that was karma”

[@saibogu002love]

"Cheating can also be leaving stuff out of your spell or ability." Me with my terrible memory messing half of my abilities' notes : Heavy sweating. EDIT : I do take notes and try my best to keep track of spells, so it's more of a joke here. I promise i never messed with my abilities on purpose !

[@remixtheidiot5771]

ThePikel I have a player who just REALLY hates taking notes in general. This is to their benefit sometimes, but also not. Says he just memorizes them because he has good memory, at one point I the GM volunteered to track his stuff for him instead but eventually gave up as I was already juggling enough as is. An example of forgetting something to his benefit is forgetting the amount of HP he has or the debuffs afflicting him. An example that is to his disbenefit is forgetting that he is already back to full health, that he should have had advantage or other because of a buff, the enemy had a debuff, etc. And don't get me started on his abilities and spells!

[@sillyjellyfish2421]

@@remixtheidiot5771 which is why i love d&d beyond and roll20 character sheets since they have an option of tracking all of that by simply clicking things up and down. No more "i will remember that, my paper is already ruined from being errased too many times"

[@Beth-cj7ip]

I ask my players to try to know where to find the details of their abilities. Also, you can tell if someone is honestly forgetful or is conveniently leaving things out

[@Albertosn3]

If that is an issue I suggest you do what Yugioh does and announce what your spells/abilities do as you use them "I activate Pot of Greed which allows me to draw 2 new cards from my deck!"

[@RandomGuyCDN]

@@remixtheidiot5771 player doesnt sant to put effort in to the game then speak to thrm about if. If they dont change then they seem like theyd be a hinderance to the campaign. You put in lots of time to DM and that person seems to be wasting peoples time by not even putting in a reasonable amt of effort

[@joem1480]

Solution for a problem player: Stabby Stabby

[@ruenvedder5921]

Love your work!

[@nickdahl203]

His character, or the player himself?

[@moustacheboy9918]

@@nickdahl203 duh, both.

[@donnieenfield8280]

@@nickdahl203 that's what I was going to ask lol

[@peepeepoopoo7724]

Hey it worked, the player can’t show up to any more session l!

[@Beth-cj7ip]

Another tip for the SBIR talk- use "and," not "but." "I appreciate your enthusiasm And I want to be sure other players get a chance in the spotlight"

[@TheNamelessOne]

I love the reply to the rogue's why would you do that in the start skit

[@Beth-cj7ip]

That's The way to do it 🤣

[@samuellove9619]

Barbarian was on point "cos that's what the dungeon master would do"

[@cchapa7470]

I've always loved turning around the "that's what my character would do." excuse to bite the Player in the butt. After repeated infractions, I took the other Players aside and asked them "If this were real, what would your PC do in response?" and the Players told me. I said "Ok, next time, do that." They said "Really?!" I said "Sure. Why not? Don't feel like you, as a Player, should have to put up with bad behavior In Game to keep the peace at the table. isn't worried and you shouldn't have to either." Next game stole from the party and got caught. Paladin "apprehended" them (read knocked them out and had them thrown in jail with the other party members as witness). When problem Player threw a fit, Paladin said "What? It's what she would do." I told them to roll a new PC because that one would be in jail for 1 month, problem player mysteriously rage quit and we had peaceful game play ever after. Sometimes it just takes giving the other Players permission to stand up for themselves. 😜👍

[@Lcirex]

I see... so Fat Cat gets away with his cheating because your afraid of losing your friendship with the adorable little chonker.

[@krok_zilla6448]

I actually really like the DM Lair’s style of DM’ing and his modules because it just goes to show that you don’t need an extremely detailed setting to have a fun campaign.

[@charleyedwards2121]

when confronting someone never say "YOU" did so and so, always explain the situation from yours or the others perspective. the other players were pissed because ** they were left to battle the monster alone and they needed you etc etc people arnt bad players on purpose. everyone wants to be accepted but also doesnt want to be wrong.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

There are tiny percentage of players who are bad players on purpose. Those few are usually doing so out of a personal conflict with one or more others at the table. Way back in the 1990's I had one of those. He got a few months off from being included in gaming, came back a better player.

[@PartridgeQuill]

I think you have some excellent points here. I think the balance exists in remembering that usually, we are playing with friends, and we can appeal to that, too. And your point about friendships that can't handle being confronted not being good friendships makes sense to me. Great video, sir!

[@retrogamer9119]

For my problem player that would attack/steal from NPC's, just do anything to derail the story, I created a "prison crystal" in which if you cause to much of a problem you get trapped in a crystal the size of a golf ball that a guard captain would have. Can't move or cast magic, if the Crystal breaks, you die. It was basically a magical jail with no save.

[@jasonreed7522]

I would definitely show it off as part of the world before using it on said problem player. Make a cutscene where they see a theif steal from an NPC and a town guard catches them with it as a sort of super handcuffs / pokeball with no save. This way they have fair warning that such a thing exists and maybe they should stop committing murder-robberies or they will definitely be captured accordingly. This helps avoid the problem of punishment ingame instead of talking to them as a mature adult because it refocuses it as "actions have consequences and you know the town guard can easily capture you". As a bonus the party may even aquire one of the time-out crystals as a reward for prolonged good behavior.

[@benjid4053]

Sounds like your "power gamer" is just a combination of the other five. Some people do enjoy a "power gamer" style, trying to etch out every advantage within the rules. Example: choosing a more expensive tool set during character creation for the purpose of selling it; or as a more roleplay version creating a bond with an NPC that allows you to aquire goods at a reduced rate. Personally I don't see power gamers as a problem, more so a variation of the puzzle gamer, but instead of enjoying actual puzzles they see the game itself as the puzzle. Thank you for taking the time to read this if you do, I do enjoy your videos especially with the skits. You are probably my favorite d&d youtuber. Good luck with all your endeavors.

[@Skulltap]

On the min/max topic. I allow official release content with the caveat that there may be tweaks needed to "fit the campaign setting". I do allow homebrew content but only after I have had a good chance to review the content and approve, modify and offer, or deny the requested content. For those rule arguments, I have instituted a rule of what I say sticks for now if you want to talk about it after the game then that is the time for it not during the game.

[@metarmored]

"Because this is what the dungeon master would do"

[@samuellove9619]

Best line

[@inappropriateperson6947]

Trademark that line.

[@ohthenoises]

One good way I tamp down my own minmaxing tendencies is I always try to put my minmaxing through a character lens; "WHY would this druid take a level in barbarian", make a story out of it, make a lore reason to justify it. If I can't then I will save it for a different game/character. It really helps also to build with a specific thing in mind too. "I'm going to make a face" ok so I'm gonna minmax conversational skills but I'll leave my strength in the dust. Rather than minmax a whole character and try to cover every angle I make them really good at what they were designed for but at a loss for other areas.

[@dustindial9996]

My formula is 7 fold. 1) Perceive a problem. 2) Talk to others in and out of the group to make sure it IS a problem (sometimes we perceive an issue where there is none) 3) Talk to the person causing the problem privately, identifying the problem, and your expectations for the future. 4) If problem continues, address it openly, with the same points. 5) If the problem persists, remove the problem. 6) After a time, if willing invite back, with the understanding that it is conditional on their conduct. 7) If problem happens again, removal and hard ban.

[@D_PIETZ]

Had a player back in 1st Edition try to insist that Treasure Type U, “1 of each magic excluding potions & scrolls” was literally, “one of EVERY magic item”. He then processed (between gaming sessions) to add up the EXP for every item in the DMG and calculated his “new level”

[@josephdellavecchia7828]

"Who would argue over the definition of how to measure something?" I don't what you mean Luke? (Laughs in Warhammer)

[@theDMLair]

LOL. I've never played Warhammer but I'm imagining this is a thing huh?

[@josephdellavecchia7828]

@@theDMLair There was a huge argument at my FLGS about what about the phrase "more than 9 inches away" that lasted for weeks. Some people bought an entire army because they wanted to abuse this rule. Then they sold that army when the FAQ came out and they couldn't be asshats about it anymore.

[@SirToastyIII]

The first FAQ for 8th edition had to define the terms ‘within and inch’ and ‘wholly within’...

[@Boonslayer]

In regards to your specific example of a power gamer, I rule that center of square to center of square is 5 feet, because each square is supposed to be 5x5, so that logically makes sense to me, but if you've been playing with a different ruling for years and he's arguing with it at a moment when it would benefit him, that's definitely bad. You guys have agreed to the way that's ruled previously, so there shouldn't be any further discussion there.

[@Forgemane]

What are your thoughts on off-label uses for spells and abilities in games, such as: Using Ray of Frost to chill an object to make it more brittle? Collapsing a Pole of Collapsing, and re-extending it, wedging it into a cave wall, creating a stable climbing surface? Using Fire Bolt to light a hay stack, potentially starting a fire? Taking the Magic Initiate feat on a Way of Shadow monk to get a familiar, then teleporting that familiar on the other side of a wall so that you can Shadow Step to it. Personally, I find these kinds of creative applications of abilities and spells in D&D to be super fun. They make me think outside of the box. I would, however, never argue with the DM if they disagreed.

[@BleydTorvall]

You seem to have found an elegant solution for the "Mr. Limelight" problem: just be all the players in your campaign. You always get to be in the limelight, no matter what character is taking actions!

[@krok_zilla6448]

Here is a solution for Min-Maxing- Setup a separate “mini-campaign” where every week, the players bring level 20 characters, often including the DM, any character builds within the WOTC sourcebooks (or even just the PHB, you’re choice), and have a bit of a friendly PvP tournament. If you are truly worried about overpowered characters even for something like this, you can roll for character races and classes to add some extra fun.

[@PizzaMineKing]

The worst thing you can get is a rules-lawyering, yet cheating, min-maxing powergamer who also likes annoying the other players.

[@boxofgreed]

I am a former worst thing \o/

[@backlash660]

Try adding in drunken player on top of all the other things . Not fun .

[@radartrigger5667]

We've got one of those in our current star wars game and the worst part is that he's our normal DM 😒

[@hoosieryank6731]

Had that in my Dresden Files game, I chose to leave.

[@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself]

There seems to always be at least one in every group.

[@digitalmoonbooks]

Great advice, I have been a DM for 45 years, this is all good stuff. Best of Luck.

[@redwolf19871]

Hey Luke, I've been Dm'ing for almost a decade now and i've been watching your videos for tips story ideas and mostly the advice. Here's one from my DM. Before we even began playing, he showed us the "Rules". Rule #1 was don't split the party. This was duie to all of the encounters he had created were built for the party's overall level, including the NUMBER of enemies. He explained it this way: if you go OFP (Own F-ing Program - don't mind the swearing, we were all US Marines so it is pretty much a part of our regular speech) and run into an encounter as a solo, you will run into the PARTY's encounter as a solo... pretty dire warning, but it was there: the consequence. None of us ever split the party.

[@MrShadowbite]

In regards to the "cheater" that leaves out or misrepresents powers. I've found that some players have used an ability incorrectly for the longest time and never realized it. Then when someone shows them their mistake they can become incredulous since it conflicts with how they and likely past DMs have done it.

[@Frederic_S]

I don't know if everybody noticed. But this ist not only GM, but general life advice.

[@amg5787]

Great video, definitely needed this one. Got a player that makes everything dark, as he thinks the world is dark, and can’t separate what he knows from what his character would know. It’s so hard to play with him. The the easiest/simplest way to explain without typing an essay haha

[@krok_zilla6448]

This is actually a very understanding video, this channel is pretty rad.

[@theDMLair]

Thank you! :-)

[@Isheian]

See. The thing is this: we had a player do that “it’s what my character would do” once. The others players characters did what they would do if someone they trusted screwed them without reason, we killed them and looted the body. Never had a player do that since.... No DM intervention required! So what do you do when the dm nerfs base class abilities because they don’t think that’s fair. Case and point: our current DM doesn’t allow the rouge to sneak attack a flanked opponent. I’m tempted to go the LARP route and demonstrate the logic using padded weapons.

[@DetectiveBarricade]

But the sneak attack is the rogue's means of keeping up with the likes of the fighter, barbarian, and paladin's damage output. It'd be like denying the paladin his divine smites. You could try asking them to try it for a combat-filled session or two to see if it's really as unfair as they fear. Do they let the rogue sneak attack in other situations that feature describes?

[@Isheian]

@@DetectiveBarricade Haven’t had a session with combat that would have those opportunities. And I agree, hence the padded weapons to highlight why his reasoning is flawed. That being that just having two opponents opposite you isn’t enough to distract your attention and allow a “sneak attack”.

[@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself]

It depends on if you are talking about 3rd ed. flanking or 5th ed. flanking and if facing is being used.

[@sirdogs8766]

I recently started a tabletop club at my school. I have 2 problem players and the entire group is a little loud and doesn't quite listen. This video is so helpful. Thank you.

[@saharory]

I’m actually struggling with the power gaming as a player, of course after 10 seconds of arguing I realize I’m doing it again and stop myself. I think if you are struggling with it yourself just try and be more aware of what you’re arguing on and stop yourself, because at the end of the day you want to have fun and arguing is no fun to any of the players around you

[@MonkeyJedi99]

"But the problem player is a friend!" - Maybe they shouldn't be? - A common tell of the roll-fudger is a longer pause between the dice coming to rest and the declaration of the number. Another is they out-of-pattern stop saying "roll # plus skill #" and instead pause to do math and say "result of #" - I get the point of point-buy. We don't use it in our group, but we're pretty chill about min-maxing. As in we don't do it deliberately. Multi-classing in our group requires a solid roleplay reason and downtime for cross-training. I FULLY agree with limiting character builds to a specific book or books. We use only the PHB and Xanathar's, and Tasha's is "under review"

[@doomyablackheart1406]

One of the main problems is that the source books tell you to kill players . Like there is a quote in tash’s “talk to your players if not there is allways cloudkill”

[@DetectiveBarricade]

That's supposed to be a snarky joke on Tasha's part.

[@kylecorbett2471]

I appreciate the solutions part of the problem players that can arise. Definitely helps so you know what actions to take early on rather than ignoring the problem. The problems help me, as a new dm, to know what to watch out for

[@emielpeper9248]

Some call it cheating, I call it having a sieve for a brain. I kept forgetting Cure Wounds was touch so I occasionally used it to heal someone from a distance in the heat of the moment. Then again... Most instances of me doing that I was the DM, so...

[@dongeonmaster8547]

The shortest pencil is better than the longest memory. I encourage players to make index cards with their spells or feats on them or at least to make a pg. reference for them on their character sheets so we can have quick access to the descriptions if needed. Of course as the DM the rules are what you say they are, as long as they're consistent.

[@thenne22]

"Cause that's what the Dungeon Master would do." That line made me chuckle.

[@kriscat12]

Our party PVPs but it's for training or sparring scenarios during downtime and all the PCs involved consent.

[@workdangit7]

I’m a big fan and I love your content. I do have to disagree on one thing though. If a player is remaining within the rules and making their character as strong as they can make it in the rules, I think it’s fine. Break the rules and it isn’t fine anymore.

[@johnstarinieri7360]

I had a player who was playing a “pacifist” Cleric/Artificer who not only refused to kill enemies, but actively tried to stop the party from killing people. Like, to the point of even healing low-health enemies or fighting allies to stop the killing blow. The way I stopped it was basically just... straight up telling him no. I wouldn’t track any death saves for downed enemies and I wouldn’t allow him to try to throw himself in front of attacks or anything. Probably not the best method but it seemed to work on him, he recognized that it was causing a lot of conflict in the party. (Oh yeah and he was also a mix-maxer with base 27 AC. Lots of saving throws for him late-game)

[@ImJustTryingToSurvive]

One problem player I had made an entire anime guild hall with named characters as his backstory and would split the group and get his character killed often so that he can try out new builds. I didn't know that's what he was doing until later, and tried to have a resurrection arc before he asked for his old character to die again. Another played video games while we were in game, and we could hear it on his mic, but denied that he did. He partly payed attention, but told the party he was going back home to report the death of the previous player mentioned to the guild hall. Both are gone now, but they derailed the campaign hard enough that I'm ending it soon and just starting over with a new one.

[@PugsleyThePear]

I recently had a problem player, or rather a problem with a player. His character wasn't interested in joining the rest of the party and would often ignore plot hooks. Literally the first session we played his character went "no thanks" and went off to drink at a bar while the rest of the party solved a murder mystery. This sort of behavior, while not as bad as it was the first session, persisted. He told me that he as a player was invested in the campaign, but that his character was not. We recently ended up taking about it, and it turns out the player and I have significantly different views on what a "character-driven" adventure is. To me, it means that the world reacts to the PCs actions and it requires the characters to interact with NPCs and the plot to move the story forward. To him, it meant that the PCs backstories should be in focus. He hadn't responded well to plot hooks because they had no connection to his backstory. So our troubles stemmed from a misunderstanding going aaaall the way back to session 0. I also got told to try and make my plot hooks more compelling for all players in the party, which I will take to heart. We scrapped that campaign and are going to start Rime of the Frostmaiden soon. This time I was clear from the start and told them "make characters that are interested in helping out the people around Ten-Towns, this adventure require you to be adventurers." We will start on saturday, I'm really pumped to DM for a party of characters who all WANT to interact with the adventure!

[@ADudeWhoExperiences1393]

Geez, that seems like his character had issues from the get-go. If you make a character who is an adventurer (which, basically every character you make is an adventurer), then dont you think your character wants to go and make money solving the murder mystery for the town? Or gain fame by bringing a criminal to justice? Like, why become an adventurer if you dont want to solve problems? I suppose characters, like a monk or cleric, could take a journey for personal enlightenment. With that logic, the PLAYER could argue that the character wanted to do the adventure as a part of fate or as part of their trials of enlightenment. I just feel that some plot hooks need the players to argue the reason with their own characters and find a reason to follow through with the adventure.

[@PugsleyThePear]

@@ADudeWhoExperiences1393 exactly, a "meet me halfway" kind of thing. To me, that's part of roleplaying your character - finding what motivates your character to go on adventures. I'm getting paid. I want to protect the people in this town. I might learn something important. This quest is crucial to one of my friends. I'm eager to show my skills. I don't want to let my party deal with danger on their own. I'm itching for a fight. I'm curious! All of these are reasons to go on an adventure that may forward a character's development without being explicitly tied to their backstory.

[@ADudeWhoExperiences1393]

@@PugsleyThePear Exactly! I'm lucky enough that my group usually does what we described and even if what is happening doesn't directly correlate to them, they will find a reason to try to do the adventure.

[@Stormy5533]

This is the video I've been waiting for. Real value here. Although... No multi-classing is quite Absurd. Have you ever had a player like Absurd?

[@richg.8371]

In my opinion standard 5e already is multi classed (eldritch knights, arcane tricksters, and bards etc) so I don’t see why I would allow additional multi classing. It’s already in there.

[@Dhyfis]

Yeah, just recently had to kick a family member out of the group. It was rough but needed. They were a cheater/spotlight stealer, and I was tolerant for too long because they were a family member. However, it was hindering my other players to the point where other people were starting to be more willing to skip and one voiced that it felt like an obligation to show up. Three weeks with them gone and the difference is felt and beneficial.

[@clockup5878]

Luke is channeling the Angry GM lately, and that's great.

[@mikegould6590]

Problem players I've experienced: 1. A player that not only wants to be a spotlight hog, but also refuses to learn any mechanics and whom works actively against the interests of the party and themselves. In essence, regardless of what they play, their intent is to slow down and/or sabotage the actions of others. Yeah. That happened. Kicked. 2. A player that, like above, refuses to learn the game, is also a spotlight hog, and then will openly argue, throw dice, rant and such when their behaviours aren't the core. I had a table with TWO such players. I quit. 3. A player who would openly challenge you on every rule call and would ignore themes, player intents, etc, and would actively build a character that would act against whatever group they were in. Now imagine they're a former DM too and should know better. 4. What if you have a player that, a power gamer, min maxxer, challenges the DM on every call, acts like rules lawyer, and bullies other players when they don't get their war... yeah. Had that one too. 5. A player that intentionally creates a mechanically poor character, then demands that they not only be front and center of everything, but that the DM shower them with numerous magic items to make up for their poor choices. This character WAS built with the 27 point system, and they intentionally made it really, really poorly. When they didn't get what they wanted, they would shit talk the DM behind their back and try to pull other players away from the table. As a side not, this player is also a DM and they're truly crap at it. (He would monologue for 1.5 hours, and during the course of that, mutilated two player characters without content, saves, input or chances) 6. Consider a table where the wife of the DM and the son of a friend of the DM are the only two at a table of 7 allowed to speak, take treasure, and make choices. Everyone else is a goddamn audience member. And the DM is good with that. Yeah. See above. 7. I've been at a table where the DM facilitated another player's wish to have their character rape another PC. Ask me how quickly I quit after a loud rant. 8. A player that not only metagames about player knowledge, but also about what they think the DM will do at every turn, based on their opinions of that person as DM. Now imagine that the table is held captive in analysis paralysis while the player carries on like Vissinni from the Prince Bride ("I clearly cannot choose the wine in front of you because Mike is the DM and he...") 9. Players 3 and 8 are the same person.

[@theDMLair]

Man number 6 that one is a is a real problem. Very bad

[@mikegould6590]

@@theDMLair Number 6 as DM is player 5 above.

[@Sean-ni4qy]

reformed mr.limelight /min-maxer. I found the solution to focus on min-maxing support roles like an Enchanter or Bard Then make your "Limelight" to be that of a kingmaker or having a vested interest in letting the party over-achieve. That means that I have to adjust my playstyle to help PCs meet their goals and I HAVE to share the spotlight otherwise I'm not succeeding.

[@kRx1203]

While I can see why MinMaxing is seen as a problem, there is a similar behaviour that I really enjoy, both as a player and seeing it in other players as a DM. Because I love looking through the rules, the abilities, races and what have you, looking not for the most powerful combination, but the most interesting one (they are still quite strong usually). Things like "How many fighting styles can I fit on a single character?", "How much crit damage can I deal by just increasing the number of bonus weapon dice?", "What is the lowest level that allows me to survive maximum fall damage with some HP still remaining?", "Can I make dual wielding pistols work?" There are so many fun possibilities to explore and 90% of my character ideas are based on those interactions rather than anything else.

[@Boss-_]

Kindred spirits, you and I are. I tend to look for the same kind of interactions to take things to the extreme, and I often build those character prototypes just for fun, even if I didn't get to use most of them yet. As an example: right now I'm playing a brawler character. Okay damage, but incredible single target CC, with a grapple-tripping combo with Prodigy on Athletics and a level in Barbarian for Rage. Only caveat is he's borderline worthless against things that are immune to being grappled. Doesn't have to be strictly combat either, one idea I looked over with a friend is a character with proficiency in every skill, and experteise in a few more Sometimes I don't even go to the extreme and just think of a role concept like "I wanna make a melee Warlock, but NOT use Hexblade", or "A ranged support fighter", and go from there. Incidentally, I don't know about dual-wielding pistols, but hand crossbows: definitely. And you can deal upwards of 40 damage a turn like that at level 5 or 6.

[@HairyHariyama]

My most recent character started out as me going "Tieflings get a bonus to intelligence and charisma, but from a mechanical optimisation perspective, why would I want a character with both high intelligence and high charisma?" My answer was to make a sorcerer/wizard multiclass, the first time I ever made a multiclass character. Also I actually worked out the answer to your fighting styles question. Assuming that both Tasha's Cauldron of Everything and the blood hunter class are allowed, and that you can take the same feat multiple times unless otherwise specified, the answer is ten. 2 levels in paladin, ranger and blood hunter will get you one fighting style from each of those classes, then put the remaining 14 levels in fighter to get one fighting style and five ASIs. With each ASI, get the Fighting Initiate feat to get another fighting style. And then, for your tenth fighting style, you start out as a variant human. Guess what feat you're taking at 1st level. Heck, even if blood hunter isn't allowed, you just go to level 16 in fighter to get another ASI to pick up Fighting Initiate again and still have a total of ten fighting styles. That one isn't a character I am actually making by the way. It was more of a mental exercise than anything.

[@kRx1203]

@@HairyHariyama Well, Blood Hunter is at the end of the day a homebrew class and the PHB states that "You can take each feat only once, unless the feat's description says otherwise.". So the number would actually be 6. 2 levels of Ranger and Paladin will give you a fighting style each, Champion fighter gets 2 fighting styles, plus another one from the Fighting Initiate, and finally one from the College of Swords Bard.

[@thecrazynodak]

Your description of “rules lawyers” is pretty much the definition of an actual lawyer.

[@skeetazaurus]

"but my chaotic evil character would absolutely bail on the party or backstab an ally!" "Then your character probably wouldn't be part of the party for very long. Bye bye."

[@BastinatorX3r0]

"Because that's what the Dungeon Master would do." I need to remember this line.

[@terrangray]

Ive found for rules lawyers or power gamers. If they want to bend the rules tell them sure, but that all the bad guys and BBEGs will get the same exception. When they realise how OP that will make the bad guys they back dow quick

[@rebeccarichins9472]

We do pvp but we ask the player if it is ok for some one to thump there character upside the head. Most of the time we all think it is fun! But yay sometimes it irritating. All depends the day.

[@Zr0din]

One of the first things you mention, "Don't punish their character in-game..." I was thinking this is exactly the type of thing you would WANT to do, to show their actions are making consequences for themselves and the other characters as things respond to their actions. So the All-Powerful Litch may be over the top, but certainly, the additional Oger behind the door that gets a surprise round on the Thief seems completely legit to me.

[@lokvichano7763]

...Im a dm and im watching this, but honestly those mit-maxing rules....I've never seen a reason to apply those rules, I just make them suffer with my mystery dice rolls! But, I totally agree on the frustrating part with the power gamer.

[@assanilightbringer4244]

I didn't previously worry about the min-max on stats, but with 5e have come to realize that allowing players to roll instead of forcing point-buy/standard array leaves a large power-gap sometimes if one player rolls average and another rolls incredible...you end up with a character that often overshadows others even in their elements because all of their stats are high enough to make them as good or better than a character who was built to do certain tasks...Makes the game more level for the group as a whole.

[@lokvichano7763]

@@assanilightbringer4244 Honestly, to me, sometimes if the players roll generally bad overall, I just let them reroll all of their stats once and will have to pick the new rolls.

[@Rockzilla1122]

@@assanilightbringer4244 when rolling just set the minimum to be 70 point total and let them reroll if they come under that. Even if they roll a few really dump stats with a 6 or a 7 they'll still come out if it with 16s, 17s, and 18s to put in their main stats.

[@Turtle-Melon]

I do disagree with never punishing players characters. Depending on their actions, I provide consequences. Maybe not so drastic as killing, but definitely something that makes them regret doing that thing. For example, I once had a player who decided to take a leak on a shrine to another player's god. The instigating player then suffered a temporary (yet effective) debuff as appropriate for the circumstance, something that could realistically happen if you insulted a god's shrine in a fantasy setting

[@michaellittlefield6906]

Heads up btw, I'm sure you want to know this. I searched "Dungeons and Dragons" in the KZbin search specifically trying to find your channel again because I really enjoy your content. I couldn't remember the name of your channel, just your face. You did not even show up in the list. I just began clicking other suggested searches until I finally saw your channel name and it looked familiar. I still wasn't positive until I saw your face. I suggest you put your face on your thumbnail photo. I think a cartoon portrait of the blue faced barbarian would be great and most identifiable to your audience. Anyway, keep up the good work. Subscribed 👍🥰

[@kmoustakas]

The easiest way to deal with problem players is forgetting to call them when next session is up and when asked 'oh our characters wouldn't adventure with you sorry"

[@cp1cupcake]

I've been in a lot of games where how to measure something became pretty relevant. Simple reasoning, we weren't playing on a grid and using a VTT.

[@michaelturja1849]

I was playing in a game with homebrew Giants that were 200 feet tall and had 10,000 HP. (We later got a mcguffin that made the giants effectively have 100 HP as they were part of the plot). The whole party knew that those giants were not to be fought under any circumstances and we had received word that one was marching towards a city with a caravan of White Dragonborn (the antagonizing army in this campaign). We decided to scope out the army to get more intel and we had successfully hid to not be noticed by the caravan. As we were watching, one of the players (the problem player, he was a mix of a limelight and instigator as you put it in this video) decided he wanted to go up to the Giant and cast Spike Growth on its head. Well it took 2d4 damage and woke up the entire camp, capturing the problem player and interrogating him for information. Well, through the use of a detect thoughts spell, the Dragonborn found out all of our defenses that we had set up and managed to avoid all of them. The Dragonborn then proceeded to massacre the city we were defending and we barely got out alive. To this day, the memory of the session makes my blood boil, because we had created an intricate plan (something we don’t normally do) and we probably would have been able to drive the army back if he had just stuck to the agreement that we just want intel and we are not to engage.

[@Spiceodog]

The instigator can be good as long as they aren’t creating pvp type scenarios.

[@theDMLair]

Yeah I feel like it depends on how they do it.

[@cp1cupcake]

The situation at the beginning of the video reminds me of a comic I saw in Dragon magazine like 15 years ago. The party is going to a lich's tomb with the thief adamant that there will be tons of content and loot for them to level up and gear up before encountering the lich. When the lich opens his front door personally and asks who is there, the rogue is the only one who thinks its a bluff and stays. It doesn't end well for him.

[@michaelramon2411]

If you're dealing with one really powerful PC and want to increase difficulty without ruining things for the less powerful PCs, the simplest thing to do is increase the number of enemies. Even if a PC can one-shot most everything you are throwing at the party, they can only make so many attacks per turn, and if you throw four or five guys at them they can probably only kill one or two in a round, which means that the other players still have foes to fight, and it feels like they are contributing. I have also found that a second enemy wave, preferably coming from a different direction, can shake things up in an effective way. After all, the powerful PC still can't be in two places at once, so if enemies are coming from both sides, the powerful PC will need the rest of their party to handle the other half. Lastly, if you do need a big, powerful foe that you don't want the powerful PC to instantly wreck, but don't want it to squash the weak PCs, focus on its ability to survive hits (HP, health regeneration, attack-negating effects like concealment, displacement or Mirror Image) rather than it hitting super-hard or being impossible to scratch. The weak PCs won't get instantly splatted, and will still be able to hit it (or pop Mirror Images or the like to weaken it), but the powerful PC won't be able to drop it instantly either.

[@notSpiritsend]

Just started this video but I want to ask a question. How do you deal with problem players you are related to? My older brother plays in my campaign that I’ve homebrewed from the ground up but he fights me on everything despite my rules specifically saying not to interrupt the flow of the game to argue over rules. He does it every time we do a session which only takes place about once a month. Tonight he not only made one of my players feel uncomfortable enough to leave but he made my wife have a panic attack during the issue. I could have stopped it all at once by not pushing back, but he was just plain wrong and trying to dictate the rules of my own world. I have given him second chances over and over again because he’s my brother and I’ve always had his back but he pushed it too far this time. It will surely cause issues with him outside of the game. Aside from this, I based the story around their characters. His PC has an issue that involves one of the biggest bads of my game that is the only tie for that character to be a big bad to begin with. By removing him from the game, I would have to heavily change a lot of the story and it would be easier to just stop the game completely, breaking both my heart and the hearts of my other players. We JUST started a new player into the group as well. Can anyone help me please?

[@Anxuta]

Talky talky stuff is indeed cool. That's how I play some parts of the DnD sessions!

[@hosermandeusl2468]

I feel your pain. Recently dealing with a player who uses the "emotional blackmail" card ("...this makes me feel like not playing...")

[@LunarAnimeAngel]

I am a player in a campaign where one player has completely lost track of what their character and who that character is. May send both parts of this to DM once the second part come out.

[@LordDayehawk]

My most recent power gamer encounter that broke me, a player (who also DMs) trying to argue with me that they wouldn't start falling after having their flight spell dispelled until their next turn. What made this especially infuriating is I have played tons of games with him as a DM and he has NEVER had falling work like this in his own games. It was only to keep him from suffering the effects of the fall. We had this argument multiple times in the same campaign.

[@P4D3LL05]

Ah the followup to the "It's what my character would do" rant! Haha great video as always!

[@stainlesssteelfox1]

I have a classic for you. In my first campaign as a DM, a D&D 3.5 homebrew campaign, I had a player who knew the supplementary books better than I did. There were two version of half-Celestial, and he managed to conflate them so he got the more powerful version, while only paying the ECLs for the less powerful version. As a result his character was significantly stronger than everyone else. It wasn't until around half-way through the game that someone else worked out what he'd done. Unfortunately it was a story heavy campaign, with high CR battles so they'd advance faster, and removing or nerfing the character wouldn't work. So I just gave the other characters extra shinies (either gear or abilities) or a second character, and then upped the CR of the challenges even further.

[@donb7519]

whats an ecl?

[@mudawott]

Honestly, I think the best thing is instead of rule 3 is carefully looking over what a homebrew race or third party race can do. Most players will likely stick to official ones. So for the most part, it should be easy to adjust the homebrew character types. I play DND partially for creating my character so I think this has a lot to do with knowing what your players want. If your players are role players primarily they might dislike having their creativity stifled because they don't understand the issues you are trying to prevent.

[@ultimatewitcherfan6677]

I’ve been a DM for almost 15 years now and I’ve dealt with all kinds of problem players from rules lawyers to power gamers. My players know that I won’t tolerate certain behaviors (such as arguing over something stupid because it benefits them at that moment), but some of them still like to push their luck. I had one player who would always argue about the way a spell worked to make it benefit him at a certain moment. It got to the point where not only was it starting to piss off my players, but it was starting to piss me off too!! I pulled him aside after a session on more than one occasion to explain to him that he could not change the way the spells worked to benefit his character and he needed to stop because it wasn’t fair for the other players. Ultimately, I had to remove him from my table because he refused to stop. I have zero tolerance for power gamers. If you’re going to play at my table, there’s no horsecrap allowed. At the beginning of each session I remind my players of the consequences for problem behaviors just in case one of them is planning to do something they shouldn’t. You just don’t know what your players could be planning between sessions

[@johntuck77]

Sad to say but I lost my friend over arguing over D&D. He was a power gamer, rules lawyer, minmaxer, and monopolisier all in one. We played for four years and I tried to work it out until finally, it became too much, and the D&D group split up. Sad to say we are not friends anymore! I honestly believe that some people are just not cut out for D&D, and it is better not to play at all.

[@theDMLair]

Dang that really stinks. Sorry to hear it came to that.

[@matthewwriter9539]

If you have a min-maxer try this, there is a monster or creature that is following them specifically. "My name is Inigo Montoy, you killed my father. Prepare to die." Only this creature doesn't want to kill the character, this creature is just min-maxed to perfectly cancel out that player's character.

[@Boss-_]

I really don't think min-maxxing is problematic, and I think the people who have a problem with it are either players who don't know how to build characters or DMs who don't know how to design encounters, combat or otherwise. The problem with min-maxxing comes when one or more of the following is fulfilled: -They keep using the same combo for every character (like a Hexadin, for example) -They start bargaining, ex: rolling for stats, actually getting shit stats, and then being like "Yeah, but can I reroll? I'm gonna reroll" or "Can I use point-buy instead?" I think this kinda overlaps with your definition of power gamer. -Looking online for builds. This is really a personal problem rather than a practical, because I think it defeats the point of min-maxxing if you're just gonna knick other people's ideas. -(Very bad) homebrew or UA stuff. I'm torn on this one, because with me liking to game design (and thinking WOTC is actually kinda terrible at it), I'd just modify it to be more inline with everything else. Possibly as we discover how broken it is. Now, if they throw a fit for getting nerfs down the line after we see how broken it is, that's a problem. Another problem might be if it's so broken no amount of modifying can fix it. And if you replace both the broom stick and brush, is it really the same homebrew class? Anything else, you can deal with as a DM. Keep using Polymorph to turn a party member into a T-Rex or something? Throw an encounter in a tight space or give the enemy Moonbeam. Gloom Stalker borderline permanent invisibility (okay, yeah, this one is really broken, but): Put tons of stuff that give off dim light all over the place, like bioluminescent mushrooms or something. Or as you already said, increase the raw difficulty. If they stop their bullshit combos or don't use their builds properly, they die. If they don't take it seriously, they die. I wouldn't normally just outright ban whole sets of resources, like books. Except maybe Tasha's, at least until I put together some changes to the old classes so they're buffed to be more inline with the subclasses in that book. Either that or remove all the new standard mechanics from Tasha's, like using a spell slot to gain an extra use of an ability, or using an ability a number of times equal to your PROF

[@aqacefan]

An interesting (imho) solution to the Shadowstep issue might be to allow the blind teleport, but have this as a consequence... DM: "As you materialize in the space, you go to move forward but feel an intense pain in your right hand. Make a CON saving roll, please." WBC (Would-Be Cheater):"Why? What happened?" DM: "Since you couldn't see where you were Shadowstepping to, you were a little off in your placement. Your hand is inside (terrain feature). Please make a CON saving roll to determine if you can act quickly enough to correct the error before you lose your hand. Succeed, and you keep your hand and finish your turn where you are. Fail, and you are immobilized until your next turn and can Shadowstep far enough away... minus your hand." It doesn't kill the player outright, but it teaches them a valuable lesson to RTFPHB.

[@bluelionsage99]

If the problem player is your friend, and as a friend they won't change their play issue for you for a game, then you probably can't count on them to go out of their way for you with a more serious issue and you are probably better off without that person as a friend.

[@unwithering5313]

My DM would be crazy to start banning Multi-Classing, he's already allowed characters who are from later source books and Multi-Classed characters; he even made a house rule that may or may not make some Multi-Class dips even stronger simply to make things feel more logical, he finds it stupid that a Multi-Class spellcaster has to pretend he/she only has the spell slots of that individual class level when determining what spells they can learn even if they have higher level spell slots from their other classes so he allows the new spells to be of ANY level you have spell slots for, a single class 1st level Wizard could actually learn a 9th level spell if they found the scroll for it; they just wouldn't be able to use it until they get a spell slot of that level, my DM is awesome, I also appreciate that he gives certain characters extra fluff abilities that match their character; these abilities are useless in battle and are really there because its funny but I think that's cool. I don't see how someone could ban Multi-Classing when there are already Multi-Classed characters; do they retcon the Multi-Class?

[@jasonreed7522]

I think he means you ban it in all new campaigns, and usually only if your players are abusing it and ruining the fun of the game. Personally, if "you" want to have a super power gaming experience and no roleplay thats fine. Just make sure the group is on board and maybe run it more like a rougelike, DM says heres a dungeon and the players conquer it no questions asked. It like how Critical Role had a PvP event between Campaign 1 and 2 Characters and thinly veiled the just for fun nature by having Demons arrange it, fix the damage, and send everyone home without memories of it. It was literally just a PvP match everyone wanted to do as fun, especially after a stressful end of campaign. I guess my point is DnD is a group thing, as long as the entire group agrees to it who's to tell them they can't run a game however they like.

[@_Woody_]

Hey I have also stolen from other characters because that is what my character would do....but I did it for the joke and returned it after the evenings adventure. Players and GM had fun with it, there is a time and place people, but know the sweetspot and the limits. P.S. great Video as always. Love the energy of the host on this channel.

[@baka030hydroid]

I agree with most of this, but I'll clarify. Minmaxers are players I constantly deal with in my games, and usually when he DMs, he picks really difficult modules or makes really difficult custom campaigns to force minmaxing among our group as much as possible, even going so far as to adjust module encounters upward in difficulty, simply because he said they weren't difficult enough (after he did that, he one-shot killed our barbarian, and almost one-shot killed another PC, and began doing stupid amounts of damage and having AC so high we can barely ever hit anything, even with great rolls and flanking). The way I deal with it is to raise the difficulty of encounters just a bit, like you said, and I also have found that in most cases this does not increase difficulty for the party (obviously over tuning it can lead to this however). I do feel, however, that restricting players to single-class builds strips some of their creative freedom away, just for the sake of a small headache once or twice later. I have found that players should run their characters by their DM first (In my games specifically I allow homebrew, so I include that as well to be examined) and see if the DM approves that this character would not push the game to worse spot for the others in the group. If you approve a character at the start, and then later they start using a combo they snuck past you, just tell them no, they can't blow up the Tarasque because it does X amount of flat damage, or whatever they do. If they have a problem, they should've been honest with their intentions in the first place when people were submitting their characters. As a DM, you have to foster trust and respect amongst your players, and sneaking things into the game with the sole purpose of breaking it, is not respectful to anyone in the group.

[@jayspeidell]

Tonight I have to deal with a powergaming min maxer who bullied me into allowing rolling when the rule was point buy. I really hate drama but it's the beginning of an epic campaign and I'm unwilling to continue with this character in the game. Wish me luck. I'm going to ask him to back his stats down to where they'd be using my point buy calculator. Really not looking forward to this.

[@jayspeidell]

Saw someone just like this. Here's an update: He refused to budge and I had to ask him to leave the group. He didn't take it great and we're no longer friends, but it wasn't a great friendship anyway. The game has dramatically improved and I'm having more fun. Should have done it sooner.

[@theDMLair]

Well I'm happy to hear that it worked out for the better. My experience has been similar whenever I have removed a player from the game. The game immediately got better and everyone was happier. And I've always had the same thought I should have removed the person sooner. But that's 2020 hindsight so what are you going to do? But the important thing is that that conflict is gone and you guys can have more fun now.

[@judekemp0712]

Very small thing, but I appreciate the custom closed captions!!

[@bskec2177]

It's not all on the DM. Stealing from the party is an attack on the party, and they are justified in fighting back. "It's what my character would do" can be met with "Our characters don't want to adventure with your character anymore. Make a different one, that acts differently." No one likes to be the heavy, and wreck that one guy's fun, but if he's wrecking everyone else's fun, someone has to step up, and it doesn't have to be the DM every time.

[@christophercrafte]

For a while the game I was in had a guy that didnt like splitting the party but not because its unsafe for some people but because it means he didnt get to personally be in a fight, this is fine at first but he later said we should NEVER split the party as he accused me and another player of doing it dozens of times when he means we went to one part of town and he went another. I later realized why that was its because his character was a parasite that lacked character so he needed to be present when others roleplay so he feels involved AND YET he also criticized us all constantly for roleplaying and deciding that we cant murder the difficult nobleman to solve our problem, he would say we always shut down his ideas when the only idea he would give is to torture or murder someone. He wouldnt say "it's what my character would do" but he would exclusively describe " my character does this" instead of " *I* do this" he never felt invested in the group like this as he never spoke to any of us in character I'm 90% sure he never learned out character names AND classes as he seemed to forget anything the party did outside of fighting. I could go on about this guy he got numerous extra chances but eventually he got kicked finally as the dm and the party couldn't take it anymore and he was let go, someone else in the party even made a nice reddit post about him getting kicked and the final straws from him great read.

[@spazzyphantasm]

I have 2 min-maxers tri classing they use a lot of cool stuff that causes me to learn a lot as a dm. So I have just started adding to the difficulty of combat encounters. When you have lv 4s attacking 2 or 3 times a round among other things it has to be done.

[@leandrochavez6480]

6 weeks ago i (the lore bard) got petrified (for 24 hours) in a tomb looking for a lamhia, the rest of the group decided to push on and encountered the lamhia, with a few friends of her... Our paladin died but the rest killed the monsters. That was our last session.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

Had a GM take me aside during an RPG break, because my PC had gone after something in the game that was suspiciously positioned to snarl some unsuspecting adventurer into a curse... The presentation and narrative around the thing was dubious enough that anyone who'd seen a movie in their life or heard an old school storyteller would've been wary of it, but I had casually looked around and then gone right after it... Now... It's fair to say that while I wasn't exactly new to the Game, I WAS relatively new to this Table and specifically this GM. He wasn't particularly confrontational, but wanted to know exactly WHY I'd decided to go for the thing, while everyone else was suspicious or simply preferred to avoid it. I explained that without further exposition, it resembled either a treasure or potentially useful, and anyway, he'd seemed to be struggling just a bit for story-arc, SO I (as a Player) figured I could throw him a bone... Besides, it didn't make a lot of sense to presume it was trapped as it sat, unless we were meta-gaming at least a little bit (in the sense that LOTS of our older stories had some item "found randomly" someplace the adventuring protagonist shouldn't have been at the time)... He thought about it a moment, and asked what the hell I wanted from the game. I mean, it WAS an actual risk of dooming my PC to a horrible demise and could be horrific for the rest of the party, just depending on what kind of thing it was at the time. I explained that I (again, as a Player) was interested in Story. I rather preferred if the GM could avoid killing my PC outright or just utterly ripping him off in-game from any or every epic magical item or artifact he'd fought hard to gain... BUT at the end of the arguing, I make spares and back-ups entirely FOR the case that some missed guess or "bad call" I make in-game results in my present PC's demise. I'm not so attached as to ball my eyes out or pitch an unholy fit for losing a Character. It happens from time to time. Sometimes someone has to engage in antics to get things to happen... After our chat, we got back into the Game... AND the Party pulled together to help my PC at least survive his new curse. It drew out a fairly long and rambunctious Campaign, and there was a shift in the GM as well. He rather appreciated that there was a Player who didn't mind getting his own PC into trouble just to add to the story... This practice eventually rubbed off on the others and we genuinely increased the fun and creativity in the Game. Not every reason to talk to a Player is because the Player is a "Problem"... Sometimes, it's simply a matter of figuring out how that Player is interested in fitting into the Group... AND sometimes, it's helpful for the GM just to get on the better page in regards to how a Player prefers to Play... It's still a group game, but sometimes, we (all of us) get a little narrow of view or even short-sighted in our efforts to eek out a good story. ;o)