How to Degree a Camshaft: Lobe Center Method

[@KennethEstrill]

Watched several videos on degreeing a camshaft. This was the best one.

[@dariel776]

Best explained video I've found on how to degree a camshaft. Great job 👏

[@Traycejean3]

Thank You

[@SteveGrin]

Pretty drawings too!

[@thomasterek1642]

Video was great easy to learn the steps on setting the cam up

[@lowrider6536]

The best I’ve ever seen explaining cam degree

[@shanepettit6872]

Lol liar😂

[@crawford323]

You presented this very well. The pause in editing was as effective as I have ever seen. You are a natural teacher. When you educate and indivual you educated one person. When your education makes you a teacher then you educate us all. From a Texas brother to a brother down under, " You done good."

[@marioncobaretti2280]

This was the easiest to understand in comparison to many others. Thankyou

[@beeeah2548]

Best movie on the process! Congratulations!

[@dennisnbrown]

Regarding reverse rotation, I always either continue in normal direction of rotation and stop .050 short or reverse past .050 and come back to it in normal direction. This compensates for any slack in cam drive

[@thorvelasco1467]

I'm not an engine builder, but I did learn this from my big brother in setting point gaps on a distributor. If you have to back off or reverse rotation, go past your degree mark a little more then creep up to desired degree in normal rotation. To make up for the gear lash. Does this apply to timing chain lash?

[@fluxburner1636]

Great video, but the real hero is whoever did the white board lettering. Great style and easy to read ha. Keep up the good work!

[@TaekwondoFitForLife]

Nice to get this simplified for the mechanic! Great value her, I subscribed!

[@samdurbin6566]

Thanks, it was never explained to me that you had to have a different crank sprocket and i wondered how you would change the timing when the sprockets had no adjustments

[@pedromoralez7666]

This is most clear method for me , thanks for not complicating it 😀

[@rickallen8158]

Good video, 1st one I saw where it explained what to do when the cam degrees didn't match the card #s when 1st installed. One question, why did you start at 2 degrees R with the crank gear?,,,thanks

[@alanmeyers3957]

He did that on purpose as an example, you learned.

[@Catman-1959-Rex]

By far the best video I’ve watched on this subject. You explained the variables that could cause the ICL to be off. Great job.

[@whoaaanelly65]

Have been talking with Nic this week about a Ford 200-6 build. I mentioned to him, then and again now, this comment section needs some great questions answered. My main question was: When you rotate the crank gear to, say, R4 and reinsert it, what crank to cam alignments occurred? I still wasn't sure even after asking him over the phone, today. Nic offered a "hint" during one of our earlier phone calls. Because my cam aligned Dot-to-Dot at 94° when I needed 107°, he recommended a one tooth jump because he thought that would be... "about 12° or so." Important Side Note, before I go one, I just got schooled on the why of "The Need to be Degreed" (You can use that too, if you want. No charge) There is a need for a clearer understanding of the "mechanics of dwelling a cam," not just how to do it. Who better. A few extra words here and there, with images (have your editor insert "Side bar a, b, ... x, y, and z" and re-upload it." No need to redo the entire video.) ...it might help eliminate the need to look at the phone number and call Nic. As I've been doing. Nice fellar, by the way... I think I just worked it out in my head. I think I understand. Nic suggested, me lacking this fancy bit of kit shown in the video, to skip one tooth for about a 12° move (94+12=106 I need 107. Good enough). The direction to rotate was a 50/50 choice I had to make. I went from 94° to 113° with a one tooth "jump." That was 19° on one tooth. Then this video made sense. Cutting a keyway 2° or 4° from the original keyway is impossible. 2 or 4 degrees at the crank is very close. So to allow multiple keyways you would have to do it in a new quadrant (pie slice) of teeth - safely away from the original keyway. You can now cut a new key slightly rotating the tooth quadrant relative to it. You still align the dots, just not the same ones as before. All because I didn't have it in my hands while watching the video. Hopefully my textbook was intelligible.

[@PatrickReagan]

This was exceptional. Bravo 👏.

[@axlegrind4212]

i approve this tutorial on intake lobe centerline cam degeeing. it is the best method for a racing engine. but imo, on a custom street engine where idle quality is a must, i prefer to degree the cam using the intake valve opening event @ .050". that is the most important cam timing event for idle. the cam lobe centerline event is most important for racing. many times a cam grinder gets in a hurry and does not let the machine finish grinding the lobe out, that gives the lobe more duration, changing the intake valve opening event @ .050"

[@PrisonCitySam]

10:00 i'm doing this on a 3.5 V6 Dura tech engine . It is a interference engine and I'm wondering how to do this step if my crankshaft is not aligned

[@mickl8212]

Thanks for the lesson. I wanted to know how to do this purely for knowledge. I've watched other videos on this but none of them made sense. Now I understand why you're moving the height ±/- 50 thou

[@januaryonenineteenseventy4195]

Great presentation; however make all measurements in timing chain tension clockwise so your degree wheel is on target. Tapping back and forth often can miss a degree.

[@scotttinsley7085]

Very well explained

[@LV-FOURTWENTYSIX]

Excellent work. Cheers mate.

[@gamefadayz4121]

How did moving the sprocket change the timing ?? Or did the slots move the the crank a degree or two from where it was previously?

[@NGG1983]

this was my question. I cant get my head around how the relationship between cam and crank changed at all by removing the spocket and turning it when it's not attached to the crank.

[@alanmeyers3957]

@@NGG1983you need to draw it on paper he moved the sprocket 2* which when reinstalled will be 2*

[@NGG1983]

@@alanmeyers3957 thanks, I did build an engine over the winter and did figure it out finally. At first it didn't compute, but then I realized each slot has a slightly different positional relationship to the teeth on the gear and that's where the difference is.

[@arenare2896]

Nic, Please explain the difference in cam timing methods as compared between yours where you use only the intake centerline and the 1987 video demonstrated by George Dreegal(sp) where he also degrees from the #1 exhaust lifter. In George's example he also had a 2* difference intially. Then when he combined the results from both intake & exhaust, only 1* was found.

[@terrysibley9636]

Very nice as I'm about to dive off into the ge cam degreeing abyss. Excellent explantation. Will the lifters in the kit work with a solid roller cam. Thank you. All help is greatly appreciated

[@blubu68]

I never used the centerline method, I always used the opening and closing @.050 method BTW l just degreed your 160-3106 cam for my 496 bbc, I'll have to wait till the spring though.😀

[@damer651]

Nice video but if the lobe center angle is fixed by the cam profile how does adjusting the crank gear position change it from 105 to 107 degrees?

[@ericbruck7958]

Cam timing is in relation to crankshaft timing. Changing the crank gear changes the crank postion in relation to valve timing. The cam doesn't change the crank does in the relation to piston travel. I hope that clears it.

[@damer651]

@@ericbruck7958 Thanks, yes that helps.

[@shaunthompson2849]

​@@ericbruck7958But how does changing the gear change the crankshaft position in this situation when he just slid the gear off and didn't turn the crank?

[@deltabravo5719]

Pretty sure i understood the .050 of an inch being used as a "lobe tdc" movement verification process... specific to the lifter travel after being pushed by the lobe). The math showed where such movement was supposed to land in comparison to crank tdc.

[@stevensteele160]

All timing chains have slack in them, how can you reverse the degree wheel without first taking up the slack from moving clock wise. I must be missing something.

[@177SCmaro]

The way I do it is find TDC, get your degree wheel zeroed. Get your dial on the valve or lobe for number one cylinder. Rotate the engine clockwise until the valve starts to open or you're on the opening side of the lobe, continue until you hit peak lift (the dial stops). Reverse the engine rotation (counterclockwise) until your dial reads .100 then stop. Now rotate the engine clockwise until the dial reads .050 (this takes all the slack out of the timing chain) and record your crank degrees. Now continue to rotate the engine clockwise past peak lift so that the lobe or valve is on the closing side until the dial reads .050 again and record your crank degrees again. Add the two number and divide by two. This is your centerline of whichever lobe or valve you are on (intake or exhaust centerline, remember that intake centerline is expressed as ATDC and exhaust is expressed as BTDC.) When you degree locked cams on a 5.0 coyote you get pretty good at degreeing cams lol.

[@stevensteele160]

Thank you I was wondering how to compensate/remove the slack to get a accurate reading.

[@177SCmaro]

@@stevensteele160 You're welcome.

[@Ricks408]

@@177SCmaro brilliantly written Mr 👌

[@bernardwarr4187]

@@177SCmaro what tolerance would you recommend we work to on a coyote?

[@Loucfr]

Is it really necessary to degree LS cams? Considering we don’t use adjustable cams like a lot of imports do (I could be wrong but I’ve never seen it), why would we have to degree the cam? Seems to me like it should only bolt up one way and it can’t be off because you can’t adjust it. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

[@scottgarmon4865]

Its recommended. Even the stock LS timing gears, or the location of the keyway could be off. The only way to know for certain is degree the cam. If it is off then all you need is a adjustable lower gear that looks similar to the sbc gear in this video.

[@deltabravo5719]

Stock timing sets might not have adjustable crank gears. After market timing set could have if they are built with the optional adjustments into the crank gear.

[@dariel776]

Did u have the degree wheel at 0 before rotating the crank to check for the intake centerline

[@scottgarmon4865]

I have a lq9 turbo 9:5:1 with Mast heads, a BTR stg 2 cam ICL on the card wants it installed 109 That is Dot to dot, Going off the degree wheel. I ran it like that for a while but it felt a little lazy out of boost and cranking compression was a little low. So last month I pulled it apart and advanced it 5 degrees and that brought up the cranking compression 20 psi. it feels better and definitely making more power. Even the exhaust note sounds different. I think most will say that cam is not good for my combination. It should be installed on what the cam card recommends.

[@TheReverb1]

Hello; how do you put the IN lobe at it maximum lift exactly? Is the EX pushrod all the way to the other side? I see that many use the base circle to zeroing the clock... Thanks

[@joaquin0023]

How does changing the sprocket location change the timing if the cam stays in the same position and the crank stays in the same position. The only thing that seems do change is the sprocket location.

[@ercost60]

Great video! 2 degrees isn't much. Would have liked to see you check exhaust too. I always check both intake and exhaust. Sometimes intake is off one way and exhaust is off the other way so you split the difference.

[@deltabravo5719]

He finished at 4. Because thats what this cam in the video specified. Best wishes.

[@bavarianhillbilly2337]

cool video, but why it makes a difference when you only pull the crank sprocket of the crank and put it back in another keyway, when the crank or cam isnt moved ?

[@alanmeyers3957]

When you move the slot in the chain and put it back on, it’s moved, without physically moving, do you understand?

[@Jamiesonvanloan]

If you have a new camshaft put in by a mechanic and the degree is off, is that on you as the owner or them as the installer of the new cam?

[@mr.obvious4371]

This was my childhood in the 80s along with Super shops

[@kencope4902]

Great video ! l have a 2015 Ford Fusion 2.0 Turbo * (gasoline) do you have any hi perf. cams for sale ? The onl help l could get in this respect was Crowler would " re-grind" an original set of cams. Can you, or anyone seeing this recommend something for this engine ? Thanks K.😜

[@darrellvolentine317]

ive a 496 chevy with 305 afr heads 10:25 cr. ive the smallest voodoo solid roller cam but want to go to hr with short travel lifters can you make a grind with 629 lift and about 240 @050 ground on 108 lsa? also too.where would you degree that cam for optimum?

[@Allthrashedout.]

great i understand finally

[@charlescostello1894]

what would you do if you didn't have a cam card?

[@littlelensgarage1921]

So if im degreeing in one of your hyd roller cams what lifters do i use the ones in Kit or Lifterin the CSCam Kit lifter thanks so much ALSO PLEASE I want a loby Idle / Rough Idle Cam are any of these ?? I am looking for a wild sound CS Cams rom you all thanks P#SKU:160-3105 or this one P#sku: 160-3106 I am Building a 496 BBC Good heads Intake Carb 12.1 Compresion

[@davidortiz173]

I need practice, but I'm subbed for sure!

[@rickynelson3222]

When you install the timing chain did you line it up dot to dot??

[@deltabravo5719]

The dot on the cam gear was used. The crank gear he selected from his options. Most stock timing sets dont have options. Dot to dot.

[@wedangstudio6354]

thank you

[@michaelparadisis4076]

Great video.

[@ikram3617]

slow and patient

[@bradhelfrich6602]

How about the exhaust side?

[@flinch622]

Before the how, why: all machining has tolerances. So... lets say each step/component has a 1/2 degree error, and they all happen to tilt one way: crank keyway, broach on bottom sprocket, dowel pin on the cam, indexing of upper sprocket as drilled and finally... the indexing of the grind itself. You have 2 1/2 degrees of built in error - and parts [out of the box] look perfect.

[@GarageNation353]

If you have a camshaft that the numbers have been ground down because of secretive engine tuners. How do you find your valve lift and duration? Valve lift should be easy enough but the duration... I'm not sure

[@alanmeyers3957]

Watch the video, he just showed you how to find the duration, which works on every cam and then he showed you how to calculate lsa based on duration @ .50

[@keithfilkins2043]

Thank you!

[@hotrodray6802]

7:30 and 11:40 🤔You're rotating against running rotation which changes the slack of the timing chain which will give you an inaccurate reading. 🤔 ALL cam readings must be taken with clock wise (at the degree wheel) engine rotation. 🙄

[@elinino5275]

What brand timing chain is that? And what if you don't have one with multi alignment keys?

[@Traycejean3]

It is ours, you can find it on www.claysmithcams.com :)

[@deltabravo5719]

Then do nothing. No action needed without an adjustable timing set

[@lypoc939]

sir, what about if we dont have a cam card,,what method do we used to achive for max power out put for the cam,thank you.

[@Traycejean3]

You can still follow these steps to see what the camshaft was ground too. We can explain that method a little better via phone...give us a call on our tech line and wed be happy to walk you through it.

[@Traycejean3]

@@bigboreracing356 absolutely. We have grind numbers on every CSC camshaft that are always assigned to cam cards. Some other camshaft providers don't always offer the same...or in some old applications where new cores are not available the camshafts are reground a have variances. I would agree calling the manufacturer is the best place to start, but in a pinch you can also do the above to check the specs, or send it in to us and we have a cam analyzation machine we can check odd, rare or out of business camshaft providers specs to either regrind, replicate or improve upon based on your preferences. 👍

[@mattfinish9634]

Is it possible to have a higher intake lobe centerline number than the exhaust lobe centerline? Thanks

[@Traycejean3]

Hi Matt, that means you have a little more degreeing to do. For any tech questions or additional guidance on the degree process please give us a call on our Tech Line at 714 523-0530 Monday-Thursday 8am to 6:30pm PST. Nic is always available for assistance. Thanks!

[@177SCmaro]

You mean like a cam with a intake centerline of, say, 110 ATDC and an exhaust centerline of 108 BTDC? Yes, that is possible but unusual. It would probably mean that either you made a mistake in the degreeing process, your cam has an unusual grind with lot of exhaust retard, the cam has little duration so they moved the exhaust lobe to try to get more overlap, or it's a dohc engine and the exhaust cam is set more retarded than the intake for some reason, maybe to try to raise the torque curve and increase overlap.

[@fbbc6495]

Wow I'm hooked.

[@perrymiller2413]

nicely done

[@MarioHernandez-wj1iv]

Does every cam come with a card?

[@TheRoadhammer379]

yes

[@coleplatt4869]

Why wouldn't you show how to install the degree wheel and dial indicator??

[@BKMDano17]

Doesn't this imply that the cam was not ground properly? I mean if you have to buy an adjustable sprocket to make up for the difference that seems like something you shouldn't have to do?

[@Traycejean3]

Actually its the opposite...installing a camshaft using the lobe center method insures you are getting the most performance out of the grind because you are making sure all of the engines geometry is inline and working to its fullest potential. You can use any true roller/timing chain that is compatible with your engine combination, we just prefer the 9-key way for a easier install with this method. 3-key way (stock in a lot of cases) will work the same way, but sometimes just takes a little longer.

[@1gregmoreira]

No not necessarily. It could mean that the crank key way is not in the right place. Or the timing set key ways are not exactly in the right place. In my experience.... it’s usually the timing set itself that is the problem You can take two different timing sets, install them “straight up” and find that the icl falls a couple degrees off from one type of set to the next. Consequently.... this is exactly why we degree them in the first place. In a perfect world, they’d slam that cam in dot to dot and it would be right at the 107 that the cam is ground for But that doesn’t always happen. We degree them because it’s likely going to need some manual intervention coincidentally I have found the cloyes 9 way timing set to be two to four degrees retarded. It’s just the nature of how these things work.

[@TheRoadhammer379]

@@1gregmoreira since you are the expert and going to argue, why do you continue to carry on? Do it your way and quit arguing.

[@1gregmoreira]

@@TheRoadhammer379 lol what in the world are you talking about I’m not arguing with anyone I’m explaining that this is not abnormal, and is the reason why we degree cams in the first place.

[@BROTHERSKEEPER777]

HEY GOERGE AND NICK, ITS KT AGAIN LIKE YOUR VIDEOS

[@Traycejean3]

Thanks Buddy!

[@elainestamper3873]

Good info! Not very good camera option! Need to find zoom on camera to see what is going on with timing gears and timing wheel

[@shodancat1000]

how different is the process if doing it with cylinder heads installed?

[@177SCmaro]

You need a dial pointer with an extention so that it can reach the top of the valve retainer while clearing your rocker arm. Same idea you just need to push the dial indicator down far enough so that it reads more than your valve lift before you zero it. If you don't, then the tip of the dial indicator can lose contact with the valve retainer. For example, if your valve lift is .500 and you only push the dial down .400 before setting it then at .400 lift the dial will lose contact with the retainer so, with the valve closed, you might want to push the dial indicator down, say, until it reads .550. That way at .500 lift it will still have .050 travel.

[@shodancat1000]

@@177SCmaro thank you, very helpful! i'm gonna be degreeing my cam next week so perfect timing!

[@177SCmaro]

@@shodancat1000 Right on! Pun intended, right? lol

[@177SCmaro]

@@shodancat1000 Oh, and I forgot to mention, you need to account for bleed down of your lifters if they're hydraulic.

[@rightsidelanechoice7702]

Why don’t you just read the dial indicator to read the piston dwell at the top and decide it in half for finding TDC?

[@alanmeyers3957]

You can’t pleaze everyone, can you?

[@stanleyshults6427]

Why not reverse center lines to get better performance

[@BROTHERSKEEPER777]

HEY FOLKS IVE KNOWN THESE FOLKS ALL MY LIFE THEY ARE THE REAL DEAL ENGINE GURUS.

[@chadrichardson411]

Cam degree for dummies.. perfect video for me 😂

[@SOLDOZER]

You make cams and lifters. You should address all the exploding lifter drama.

[@ratiualin4291]

I see 65° and 151° for ICL 😂. You write it wrong. It was 108°, not 107°.

[@mohamedzaued74]

❤❤❤

[@davidhimeback9087]

Ok you some what make look easier. But you not taking the fact that heads are different. !!! An head gaskets will also change time too....

[@alanmeyers3957]

Head gaskets will not change the relationship between camshaft and crankshaft, what an obtuse comment!

[@davidhimeback9087]

Really so when the head gasket get thicker you feel you can run all the same time. I guess your one that only knows how to turn the key an start the engine

[@SOLDOZER]

That degree wheel way too small for any amount of accuracy.

[@brenninknudson6017]

This makes no sense because I e watched simple videos of easy aftermarket raving cam shaft being installed and not once was this stupid degreeing was done and truck still has insane power.. sooo yeah, you don't' "have" to do that. Someone explain

[@deltabravo5719]

If we dont purchase an adjustable cam timing chain, then none of that process is even possible. 2. If you retard your "bigger" cam... you match the lifter openings more perfectly as to the timing of cylinder movement. Summary: while cams and crank shafts are auto timed for all standard applications... think me walking into general auto parts store saying gimmee a sbc cam for a 305(stock)!! Aftermarket...(street racing), more rowdy cams, etc... can use and benefit from a micro adjustment versus the crank in order to eeek out that last 1 to 10 percent of power at high rpms. A larger cammed motor will still run even if the cam is not perfectly timed...... kinda like lifting your foot off the pedal of yer bike before your leg rounded the bottom of the rotation...(just an example). Still possible Lots of power But maybe leaving some wasted energy in mid stroke. Best wishes.

[@BandLChickenRanch]

Kill the back round music.🙉

[@sawyerbarnes7439]

7:13. Did you already set the indicator to 0 off screen or did you luck out being right on the zero? "Once we get it to this point you bring the lifter to full lift." It wasn't already at full lift???? Were you just talking about the indicator set up? Then you spun it to full lift again instead of showing it the first time??

[@44special9]

At 6:30 it was at full lift and at zero so no luck involved .

[@sawyerbarnes7439]

@44 special so he did that off camera? Then showed his process after it was set up? I'm a dummy and need thinks circled and underlined haha. It's just finding TDC on the lifters right?

[@44special9]

@@sawyerbarnes7439 Yes he sat up the dial gauge and put the intake lobe to it's highest lift point (lifter at tdc) and put the gauge on 0 off camera and then did it again since he didn't show it the first time and landed on 0 because he already zeroed it the first time off camera . At the end he found out the intake lobe was at max lift a few crankshaft degrees off so he took it apart and changed it .

[@brianslicanderson3240]

Nice Nick! Rock it Kool!

[@imaginebeyondlimits]

Not clear information

[@sdrtech]

Yea kinda weird he turned the sproket and not the cam 😮

[@johnshackelford6965]

John Shackelford Crusader rep KZbin.com/user/fiddlercove