How to EQ a PA System - Some Tricks

[@chrisose]

@readerwriter Small rooms are not the place to worry about pulling board tapes, unless you pull them from an alternate mix source. In a small room I only use phones to check for channel problems not for the mains mix. You have to 'ride the room' and use the FOH to balance and clarify whatever is hitting you from the stage. It can also be helpful to get the artists to work with you instead of against you. A 10% reduction in stage volume can make all the different in the world.

[@sheldo]

Very interesting. Gotta try out the headphone trick next time. Thanks

[@werewasyo]

best teacher

[@tannerroman7396]

"We ain't talkin bout da game, we talkin bout.... practice. Not da game, not da game... not da game dat I go out and die for, We talkin bout prac...we talkin bout practice! What we even talkin bout, we talkin bout, we talkin bout practice" - Allen Iverson

[@DaveRat]

@lenoxx89 Theoretically, yes. Though if set up correctly the alteration of the sound by the hardware should be negligible compared to the info it provides. More important is to make sure that there is no issues like distortion, noise, or other aspect t hat pollutes the readings. It is wise to actually listen to the the RTA mic to assure that what it is 'hearing' is clear and not tainted.

[@UOttawaScotty]

Wonderful explaination

[@davidpike4807]

One thing I have learned over the years. Place all your speakers in one spot. Looks funky. But it removes most of your slap back problems. I have used it and it works

[@Sygorg]

Good practical info, thx!

[@joshuaharlow4241]

☺ I go though the same process. As technology has evolved, not much has changed with the setup and logic.

[@DaveRat]

👍🤙👍

[@ab9957]

Years ago i had a guitarist playing through a Marshall half stack telling me he couldn't hear his guitar thru the monitors. I said "dude, you have a Marshall, that is your monitor!" Also, I don't mix any bands anymore where the drummer owns the PA, haha.

[@BadChizzle]

Great info! Thank you!!

[@DaveRat]

👍

[@DaveRat]

By using comparable reference points. Regardless of how good your ears are, hearing perception changes from colds, plane flights, lack of sleep and exposure to wind and high volumes. By using headphones and analyzers one can reference where their hearing is and keep things in line.

[@SoCalVipers]

I've been using this philosophy for a couple of years now since I first saw this video. It's brilliant! Once you have the speakers, and system EQ set for the room mixing is very easy. Though in this video Dave might look like Jeff Spicoli, Dave is actually a genius! I've never seen such a great teacher. I send this video to anyone I work with who does sound.

[@DaveRat]

@lesPaullyboy It varies a bit Ween "Baby Bitch" Dub Syndicate "Sychronizer" and other songs from the One Way System album, some Ratatat. I usually do a vocal oriented song, a low frequency Bass/Kick oriented song, a guitar and midrange song and then just something I like to hear that day.

[@DaveRat]

There is no real way to EQ our room echo per say except is there is a low frequency resonance which changes from room to room. Nor does louder or softer really help. Get rid of low end resonance with EQ, point the speakers at people and away from walls.

[@grindinglicks]

The reason was that the 3600's would trip breakers in local clubs where I couldn't patch into a 220 panel. I also run mono only so everything is heard through both sides. I walk the room too. I hate going to concerts and the sound guy never get's off his ass and the sound sucks. I recently stood by a sound man I was haunting (unprofessional to do), but he had my favorite bands, Blackfoot and Molly Hatchet sounding like they were playing through tin cans. He finally fixed it. Know limitations too

[@grindinglicks]

Well, it looks like I've been doing this right from the get go, I don't have fantastic equipment, Jbl SR4732 and 4715 subs and add a 1x18 W bin if I need more umph, but from the start, I wanted to use whatever I did have, to the best of it's ability without blowing things up etc. At lower volumes, I could add more deep bottom end, higher-I'd cut it back due to the volume. For headroom, I was using CRown MA3600's but recently switch mains to a Crest cc4,000.

[@BuddyAllen49]

RAT stands for "Reveal A Truth". The only limitation is what your equipment will allow you to do. The basic idea being... Set the room EQ and level to sound good with familiar music (the same source every time) ... set the board for a good mix in the headphones ... and marry the two. Slight tweaks for feedback management and you're done... as best as can be done for that room. What's nice is that the board output is ready (including 9 to 3 o'clock or less panning) for a good stereo recording.

[@endersgambit]

Dave, I beg to differ in your approach it is still considered a little old school. Your approach is to correct for equipment flaws. A newer approach is managing the frequency given to each channel, this allows for a perceived channel separation. This is especially needed in vocals where each vocalist is given a featured frequency range and allows for volume changes without stepping on another vocalist's frequency range.

[@AvocadoFarmTV]

This is probably a really amateur annoying question; I'm entering in a talent show here, and my band (bass, guitar, vocal, drums) will be playing in a school's gymnasium for the event. I was wondering how I would set up our EQ and levels to compensate for an echo-ey, open space and not get a muddy sound, or at least just a few tips- thanks! -EDIT-, I read over it and realized how vague that sounded, all we have is an amp for bassn one for guitar with vocals over a left and right monitor

[@AvocadoFarmTV]

I know this is probably a really amateur, annoying question but I saw some of your videos and thought you'd know what to do; I'm entering in a talent show in my city, and my band (bass, guitar, vocal, drums) would be playing in a school's gymnasium for the event. I was wondering how I would set up our EQ and levels to compensate for an echo-ey, open space and not get a muddy sound, or at least just a few tips- thanks!

[@peerlesslondin]

AND DONT FOR GET TO ADD.. SHIT IN =SHIT OUT.. MAKE SURE YOUR STAGE RIGS ARE EQ'D CORRECTLY. THE GOAL OF THE EQ ON THE BOARD IS TO BE FLAT.. WHICH MEANS YOU ALSO NEED TO LEARN TO RELY ON YOUR MONITORS. AS THEN YOU CAN KEEP YOUR STAGE VOLUME LOW. THE LOWER THE BETTER. NOTHING SHOULD COMPETE WITH THE MAIN SYSTEM.ALSO GIVES LESS INTERFERENCE WITH LIVE MICS.THIS ESPECIALLY TRUE WITH BASS RIGS. ON BOURBON STREET, I USED TO GET ALL MY BASS PLAYERS TO ONLY USE A DIRECT BOX. THEN SEND IT BACK THROUGH.

[@6sebastiancol]

Dave i got a question about the live setting up, is it from the main outs to the crossover to the amps and speakers and then you as a foh engineer controll the two main line arrays L/R and just use auxes for fx and in your main inserts the venue eq and main compressor?, then the monitor engineer controlls his auxes for the wedges and internal mixes for the band membes?, sorry for bothering you

[@Neuumann]

@gunnyranger2 Sounds to me like it's on their end... their ears are becoming fatigued. Vocalists (especially in small venues) will complain that "they can't hear" their vox or guitar after awhile. That's because of the combined volume of the monitors, amps and drums are killing the high freqs in their ears. At sound check, I roll off the highs on the monitors. Then bring them up when they start complaining...sneaky, but it works for me...

[@Obergoofy]

Hi Dave, I follow your blog and since you are making video's it's even greater. Would it be possible to explain levels from the desk to a controller to the amps? Propper gainstricture is important! Right!? *confused* dBV dBu dBFS ..setting limiters in controller..protect equipment ;-) On my crappy 01V96V2 the master meter shows dBFS !?. So wenn the LED-bar shows -20 the output is at +4 dBu. Maybe you can cover some of the subjects? Kind regards from Vienna-Austria

[@jordibelial]

great tips Dave, although i must add that this method is not very suited for smaller venues where the stage sound is a big part of your mix and things like cymbals and cranked up guitar amps can really ruin the balance of your overall mix. EQing the room using headphones is a brilliant idea though, i am so going to try that thnx

[@MrTwostone]

@www73171 Thanks Dave for the quick reply. I Don't have a pink noise thingy but have a CD player with lots of CD's of music I been listening to for years. I mix off the stage which is not a easy task but I usually tune the PA with a CD then ask then with a wireless go out into the listening zone and tweak the channel eq. Just wanna make sure if I was doing it right.

[@blueslsd]

Really helpful video many thanks.

[@djlyngo]

I'm kuwait trying to make music only using headphones. This is my only option. What can I do to get the very best sound with out studio monitors? Can I use EQ correction for my head phones for the flatest response possible? LOVE YOUR VIDEOS

[@MrTwostone]

which eq do you start with ? room first , then channel strip. your video is confusing. According to you looks like you start with channel strip eq first then room. Isn't room eq first then channel eq strip for fine tweaking.

[@DaveRat]

@brainz11203 I start without the subs and then add them in

[@supersamuelyt]

Does it matter that I don't really have a "good" set of headphones? If I can get a good sounding mix in the headphones I have, and then match the system to the headphones, should I be okay?

[@thekobsta]

nice vid, but dont forget that the sound in small venues is not only that whats coming out from the PA. with the channel eqs i usually try to get the right balance between acoustic sound and PA sound.

[@DaveRat]

What I mean by 'correct' is "that the sound sounds the way we (the engineer/band/management or whomever) wish it to be presented'. 'Correct' is an opinion, And the video describe one way to help achieve whatever that sound you desire is, consistently.

[@Lexinton55]

Ok what happens when one of these vocalist decides to sing solo and the frequency range? you've chosen for them sounds sounds bad.

[@jjlwis]

great now i gotta buy new headphones... haha which would you chose.... the Shure's or the Denon's.... I am coming from a well warn pair of MDR-7506's

[@DaveRat]

@bolofofis That is a Tangent 1202a

[@Piercybach]

brilliant video and advice!! Made my mind set of, " f**k, there's a lot to do" to a more organised mindset, and knowing exactly where i'm going. Thank You!

[@KINGKIO]

awesome Dave most enlightening a big THUMBS UP !

[@19501960]

dave, great info, simply you need a reference point , cd you know headfones you know, and of course good ears. you talk sense

[@evanjones2454]

This is excellent! Thanks!

[@DaveRat]

@StuballScramble If you have the volume of your headphones sounding about the same volume of the system when you EQ, that flectcher munson aspect automatically factors itself out. As far as having a sound system that is linear versus one that tries to incorporate loudness compensation, that is not an EQ thing.

[@36tenaz]

lol. i got mine check one time

[@DaveRat]

@Pikatroid42 yes, flat,

[@fredericknsengiyumva8685]

Good! I love you

[@DaveRat]

@6sebastiancol exactly

[@valbeccia8591]

Thanks Dave. 🙏

[@zoundtech]

@www73171 do you have a favorite song that you usually play when you're eq'ing?

[@jameshonore6554]

thanks alot..... esp gain structure or stagging. i wanted simple.but helpful... i do set live sound systems from small to mid venues including churches!! also i am a solo bass player!! your teachings are helpful to me .... thanks..... here in Tanzania.... East Africa ... to the roof of Africa KILIMANJARO HIGHEST MOUNTAIN IN AFRICA and Ngorongoro crater... where is the home also they dig Tanzanite Mining!!!! but we citizens are very poor!!!! no wonder "fake politics".... in A rdgion so caled ARUSHA!!!! I LOVE SOUND ... thanks Dave rat

[@rio197]

...not to mention your age, as well. P.S. I appreciate your videos, man.

[@AlanHAGOSHaggarty]

Lots of good, sensible ideas and methods in there. Well done. HAGOS

[@livedjmixes]

Can you EQ a Fart?

[@timbrown57]

Is that a NEI/Neptune Mixer? I had 12x4x2x1 made by them that looked almost exactly like that.

[@gunjabeans]

Good Tips

[@DaveRat]

👍👍 Robby

[@julianvanessen9381]

wow, you know just so much stuff about audio, I found this channel about 2 months ago, and learned so many things from your vids. my way of thinking is the same as yours, so it's very nice for me to watch your vids. I like how you explain stuff, because you have a very nice way of telling things. It's not a miracle that you are one of the best audio engineers. thanks for making these vids!

[@Crunchifyable2]

I never thought of using headphones as a reference to tune speakers. But it's brilliant. A good set of headphones should sound the same everywhere.

[@DaveRat]

+Crunch2 Very cool and thank you!

[@Alpinerbergen]

not all headphone amps are the same

[@kevin11007]

hi dave, love you vids and your straight forward easy to understand and common sense approach to live sound. if i ever win the lottery i would love to hire you to mix the wedding band i play in.

[@supersnigeln007]

Yes but the basic is what Dave said when you have done that, then you start to adjust the mix withe the acoustic sound from the stage. I did a jazz week in a medium sized tent with a small stage and when I got the main EQ right everything went on fine. I Eq'ed the monitors also. I had 5 bands each day only a halfhour to rig and do soundcheck and the last band was always a big band with up to 25 ppl with a huge brass section and they are loud. This is the basic for all live mixing.

[@BirdOfParadise777]

I have been wanting to ask this question of someone who seems level headed enough to not be offended, you seem like the one:) In the profession that you are in... how often do you have a hearing test done, since your ears are your main source of income? You expose them to loud sounds a lot and use them a lot. So, how would you know if there are things you can't hear unless you're tested? Thank you:)

[@VWGTI2013]

Dave, I`m planning on buying my own sound system and rented out for shows......but where do I start as far as picking the equipment. I`m planning on spending around $20,000 - $25,000 for now. I would like to buy a yamaha digital sound board with all the effects, processors, etc, etc already installed. What speakers are pretty good, not that expensive but still attract the bands to rent my equipment.

[@kibovolks]

hi dave. just a newbie here. just want to ask about EQing the drum mics using your technique. i was just concerned about the drums coz our church has room issues and when i mic the drum it creates feed back. would i resolve this with the same approach as you have stated here? should i still eq the drums according to the sound i like and then just get rid of the feedbacks on the 31 band on the mains together with the other offending feedback from the rest of the mics? thanks.

[@YouNolf]

Can anyone tell me a good equalizer to use to correct resonances in my room? It should be tweakable because I need to cut down the 50 and 120 hertz, but I only found eqs that have 63, 125, 250, 500 hertz and so on... I'm not talking about vsts or plugins for a DAW, I need something capable of eqing the signal just before it comes out of the speakers.

[@rolandmusic3203]

Hindi varsan

[@hbrookes]

to summarize, eq your mains...

[@RoadJournal]

Nice!

[@supersnigeln007]

I never needed to do a live soundcheck and i never got the time to it either. I had my headphones and i knew my gear.

[@mcnabster]

Excellent video.........thanks Dave....

[@MrTwostone]

@www73171 Thanks but what is a RTA ?

[@DaveRat]

@npgdrums I have had numerous issues with sound vendors adding processing to the signal chain that alters the sound of the system in a negative way. My preferred signal chain is analog L/R console insert>1/3 oct>parametric>L/R ins ret & L/R outs direct to processed amps. My rule of thumb based on verified audible experimentation is "convert to digital and back to analog never more than once." or "once the signal converts to digital, it stays digital till it hits the analog power side of the amps

[@zoundtech]

@ww73171 thanks! I'll check that out!

[@MarcTelesha]

I normally tell people Don't Touch the EQ. People can't tell the difference between bright or boomy unless the Crossover is just screwed up.

[@kevinbeckenham3872]

Thank you for your advice

[@DaveRat]

Cool cool Kevin!

[@DaveRat]

Super cool. And yes, I find it very surprising that using an audio reference point is not the norm, just something that is always part of the mixing process. Sort of like calibrating our ears the same as setting the gain.

[@teresa67factoid95]

hey Dave. great advice. I personally use steely Dan for reference, as they are notorious for recording everything thing flat.

[@kibovolks]

Very very very informative. thanks a lot! made a whole lot of sense.

[@TxRunner71]

Absolutely digging these tutorials, Dave. Keep it up and thanks!!

Thanks for these great tips, but I don't think this method will work in small clubs. In such situations, we are dealing with partial amplification of instruments, as some are heard through the air (for example, cymbals). In my experience, the proportions in the raw mix listened to through headphones straight from the console are far from ideal, very often the vocals and kick drum are too exposed.

[@DaveRat]

👍

[@eNeVeFamily]

Wao! Great/experienced knowledge love it. Real helpful video..

[@brianmoss5483]

Dave you haven’t aged a bit

[@DaveRat]

Ha! I sure don't bounce like I used to

[@williamtheconjurer]

great job love your vids

[@instrumentsaudioetc]

these videos are f*cking incredible.. even as a re-explanation of things one already knows this is insanely well explained..

[@DaveRat]

Actually a room can be EQ'ed quite effectively using headphones as a reference. Audio reference points are very useful and often much more helpful than using test equipment for perception based presentations. I will qualify my position by saying that I have used this method extensively and have over 3 decades of experience as a sound engineer mixing arena's and stadiums for artists: Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rage Against the Machine, Blink 182, Beck, Soundgarden and many more.

[@jeffcregan4162]

Great video, I've watched a few times. Love the idea of checking inputs on cans and referencing a CD for tuning the PA, very pro.

[@brainz11203]

when you EQ a system do you do it with the subwooffer on?

[@peterkadelbach7010]

Because I started off as a studio engineer over 40 years ago, when I switched to live mixing my approach was exactly the same as Dave’s. I worked on the PA to get it as close to the studio monitors, I was used to, as possible…. Mixing after that, was easy. Interesting how digital consoles now mimic this in the way that we use the same but increasingly more complex presets every day. We now spend more time tuning the system than adjusting any channels settings. They stay fixed. It’s the system and room that changes, so our job is to wrestle those random elements as close to our desired reference point as possible. Then we can mix in the way we enjoy.

[@DaveRat]

Agreed

[@bushibayushi]

great great great!

[@bolofofis]

An Yamaha PM1000 ?

[@glasaudio]

What headphones are you using now since the D2000's have been discontinued?

[@DaveRat]

Ha! I actually still have my d2000, cd3000 and d3000 working just fine so I have not researched new ones

[@DaveRat]

@MrTwostone you can download a free RTA "pink noise thingy" for your laptop and then you will just need an omni mic. Just google search for "real Time analyzer free download" and you may need to do some sifting but there are a few freeware versions and tons of fairly inexpensive ones.

[@gregorykusiak5424]

I was nodding my head along to this whole video…I guess I’ve been intuitively a member of The Rat School from the start - ESPECIALLY as it pertains to the last few moments regarding transferability and headphone line checks.

[@DaveRat]

👍🤙👍

[@boogerracing]

Great tips!

[@DaveRat]

@randyswift Well, it's only true if they make you do it. I never Zero my board while on tour or when mixing the same or similar bands on the same console. I always zero the board when it loads into a new show or setup. If you are the only one on the console, I would set the board how you wish and leave it. If you have other engineers working on it, you may be able to find a "working zero" where you set all the knobs to logical working positions that are at or close to what you will need.

[@livemixpriyan]

its a pitty that you dont do any tutorial videos. Greetings from Sri Lanka

[@DaveRat]

Thank you Priyan!

[@vasilysunnicov7629]

Hello Dave! I am your fun for a long time. is that board behind you Biamp?

[@DaveRat]

Tangent

[@ashley7787]

Hey Dave, quick question; how do you deal with the heavy compression on broadcast sessions? Mrlz56; A good engineer can get a decent sound without eq in any room. You seem to be neither decent or a good engineer judging by your comments. I've been folowing Dave for a while now, he's one of the few in the industry to share his tricks. On top of that he usualy answers any questions, nomatter the skill level. Keep it up Dave, highly apreciated!

[@samoanninja275]

Hi Dave i'm looking at buying the Yamaha GA32/12 mixer is it a good mixer

[@M4musicTT]

Anyone else notice he CUTS and not BOOST... lol

[@DaveRat]

👍

[@whithutchinson6895]

@Dave Rat : Do you typically EQ a room to "flat" to begin with?

[@ozwzrd]

How about "adjust" instead of "correct" or "repair"? You can't really correct anything with a system EQ, but you can make adjustments to minimize certain of the anomalies du jour. Of course now that SMAART is available in an affordable version since you made this video, you can do the comparison of what's leaving the board and what's coming out of the speakers quicker and with heightened precision than with the average uneducated ear.

[@nooneuno8879]

This video has a pink noise calibration tool built in 😂

[@DaveRat]

Yeah, when I started doing these videos I just sat down and recorded ideas I never really thought I would get many people subscribing. Everything was spontaneous and purely based on communication of concepts but over time I have reluctantly implemented improved methods

[@nooneuno8879]

@@DaveRat The joking aside, I really appreciate you taking the time to share all of this incredibly interesting, entertaining and useful knowledge with us. Your generosity is a blessing to us all! Infinite 'Thank You's' sir! Much Respect!

[@steyer-crmg]

Hey Dave love your stuff, but, you need a lapel mic or better cam mic and 4K cam (if it’s not). Or maybe use some Eq on the video! 😂👌✌️👍

[@DaveRat]

That video is pretty old I've become more of a video guy since then and plan things out rather than just sit down and spontaneously record the easiest possible way like I used to. I never really thought the channel would be as popular as it is and used to be focused just on sharing information quickly and easily now it's definitely more of a project but that's okay

[@steyer-crmg]

@@DaveRat yeah i realised after that it was 13 years old, all good.🤙✌️👍