How to Fight with Daggers (Historical Martial Arts)

Kyle Toelle sent me his instructional video material on the use of the dagger based on medieval and renaissance sources to review. It ended up being more of a commentary and discussion of techniques (as well as some points on Bullshido vs. functional practice) than a full review as such. Either way, it's a good opportunity to talk about dagger combat in history, which I haven't covered much before.
Kyle's HEMA school, Facebook page, and podcast:
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German Dagger Fighting Vol. 1
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German Dagger Fighting Vol. 2
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Where to get practice daggers and protective gear (affiliate link):
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Where to find historical manuscripts:
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Outro:
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[@uatu3021]

I for one, would like to see you cover daggers more, and do more commentary on technique like this in general.

[@kyletoelle]

@Antifederalist is this you dax?

[@bacon81]

I agree 👍🏽

[@maxvives3820]

Me too as daggers are still a part of daily life and very much a defensive weapon very relevant Edit: maybe not dagger specifically but knives in general

[@OldNavajoTricks]

Collab with Fandabidozi, Seax versus Dirk :-D

[@maxvives3820]

@Mitchell Tyler It doesn't appear on google at all it says there are no matches. I even used duckduckgo afterwards just in case

[@ThornVangu]

13:01 Now I'm just imagining some mugger rolling up on me out of the alleyway with a bundle of about ten daggers under one arm. "I was disarmed once. Never again."

[@kyletoelle]

This made me chuckle, there's a jet li movie where he has two baskets of swords

[@svartfrasr9755]

I'm envisioning a scenario where you disarm your own mugger only to hand them back their knife and they just try to mug you again with bewilderment and damaged confidence. Just say it gives them a minus 3 on their next attack roll or something.

[@klauskuplen5563]

Did this to a guy 3 times. After handing him the blade the 3rd time he kinda just walked off. I felt a bit of sorry for the mugger, I think I hurt his self esteem.

[@corvus_da]

"you disarm your own mugger only to hand them back their knife" Uncle Iroh has entered the chat.

[@kylewilliams8114]

@@corvus_da "I'm mugging you!" "Not like that you aren't."

[@drrocketman7794]

"No, you idiot, that's not how you attack with a knife! Do it like this!" Then give a master-class on knife fighting technique in a dark alley.

[@Psiberzerker]

I disarmed one guy, hip threw him to the ground, then pulled my own knife, and sheaf threw it into the ground next to me. Stepped back, "You want to try that again? (Next to my foot, which is the easiest target in a downward sheaf throw. Also, if I missed, I'd hit my boot instead of him. Training fight, blunt knives. I didn't draw mine until I had his.)

[@shannonmanning6166]

I tell my students, "Show me an uncounterable technique and I'll make us both rich". Very effective with the students who take great joy in showing their multitasking ability: they complain about the taught technique while gloating.

[@abe423]

*Drops Nuclear Bomb* thats pretty uncounterable

[@Dynahazzar3]

@@abe423 There's quite a lot you can do to counter an ICBM (or a bomber plane for that matter)

[@brianlam5847]

@@abe423 abm systems still exist

[@kei_xvideos]

It's a story you can't laugh at. Since there is no distinction between the promised performance of the winner and the usage of the military knife, the public is deceived by the performance. If you want to know the real thing, you should watch my video.

[@kei_xvideos]

With the military knife usage, you can stab with a knife five times a second. The fighting technique is the same as boxing, so the technique used in this video is useless. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jHLaeqhqlN1rfMk

[@skyrimdavlet2617]

Bruh finally a dagger fighting manual without ragdolls

[@kyletoelle]

@Antifederalist love me some vunak!

[@kyletoelle]

lol even if I could ragdoll her, she still wouldn't let me as every time I try to do something tricky she just stabs me!

[@kyletoelle]

@asdrubale bisanzio more like angrier that a horde of wasps but it keeps me honest as I try something fancy I have to be able to beat someone who's only goal is to kill me.

[@morlath4767]

A good discussion. I think the "habit" thing is MASSIVELY important for your viewers to take in and not just for HEMA sparring. Any time something is worked on, it's often ignored what is done immediately after. I remember during a school production where I got into a habit of turning in a clockwise spin after delivering my lines to quickly get back into position to do start again. Guess what? I did the exact same move during the actual performance despite that not being my planned way of leaving the stage!

[@Sophistry0001]

Yea this is true for so many different things and skills. Not even HEMA, but firearms or even stuff like learning to play an instrument. If you repeat something enough it will eventually stick in your mind. That can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on what you repeat. I did this learning to play drums, I had an awful grip technique on the sticks. Had to completely unlearn my grip so I could do it the right way.

[@kei_xvideos]

@@Sophistry0001 The dojo does not always tell you what is right. It is up to you to decide if it is correct in the end.

[@OhitsONnow]

Were you fabulous on exit?

[@morlath4767]

@@OhitsONnow One does not play Puck and not be fabulous!

[@edwinball985]

There's story somewhere about a police department that used to drop the spent cases from their revolvers in a bucket while they were at the range. Supposedly, this led to officers actually leaving cover during gunfights to reload because they were looking for a bucket to drop the cases into.

[@TheCrimsonIdol987]

"There's a counter for everything." True indeed, and Fiore says there's a counter to the counter to the counter to the counter. Talhoffer would add a counter to that as well.

[@damianrehbein3992]

Lichtenauer over here just going: You can counter one strike, what about eighteen?

[@boldone66]

@@damianrehbein3992 Well what about TWENTY EIGHT STAB WOUNDS?

[@anthonydelonga7181]

That's alot of counter space

[@jeffreybogard2713]

Last time I was this early to a video, dagger fights were done with bronze.

[@callmad8021]

so is your years measured in BC or AD oh wait...

[@kyletoelle]

I'd love to see bronze age dagger fighting

[@mlaw9427]

And I have to club my opponent.

[@skeggulfr2723]

My HEMA group has been studying dagger for a little less than a year and it has been mind-blowing. I have studied two other knife systems for years and this is by far the most effective I've experienced simply for both its simplicity and realism. Doing it at full speed in protective gear is terrifying and challenging, but really puts things in perspective. This is one of the main reasons I love HEMA.

[@kyletoelle]

Where yall working out of?

[@skeggulfr2723]

@@kyletoelle We're in Colorado

[@dirtydan9785]

I imagine being in an actual knife fight is also terrifying and challenging, so that's probably a good thing lol

[@AstralS7orm]

Did you have any incidents of sprained arms or wrists after this full speed training?

[@skeggulfr2723]

@@AstralS7orm No, we used padded gloves or clamshell gauntlets for it. Every once in a while you'd get at most a good smack on the forearm or wrist, but never a sprain. That isn't to say it couldn't happen, but I have not experienced it. It is definitely intense and control is needed, but that is why we practice the techniques and drills and then slowly move up to open sparring at full-speed with the safety rondels like those made by ColdSteel.

[@jbradfordphoto]

The people at Cymbrogi are some of the hardest working, most badass HEMA folks around. I trained with them for a few months before I had to move off, and miss it a ton! Also, Kyle is an absolute beast. Don't let him get ahold of you if you're fighting him, lol.

[@zetsumeimaru]

Haven't fought Kyle yet, but Ryan is a solid fighter in armor.

[@jbradfordphoto]

@@zetsumeimaru nice. I don't think I got to meet him. I mostly sparred with Garrett and James (I think he moved off too) when I was there. Occasional got to get owned by Jeremy, Kyle, and Derek though. Lol. Also, Ann will own a guy pretty fast too.

[@zeratulthedark2985]

Its been forever since i actually scrapped with Kyle. I think we were still in high school at the time. Sparring and training with him, its been about 9 years. I would love ring time with him just to see how i would fare against him now. 8 years working as a correctional officer on my end, ive been trained how to prison fight with and without weapons. So it would be fun. Also i haven't been in a serious fight of any kind in a few years, so scrapping with my best friend would be nice.

[@kyletoelle]

@@jbradfordphoto come visit!

[@john2wheels860]

@@kyletoelle I want to, I miss hanging with you guys! Hopefully some time I'll be able to schedule a trip back to OK where I'll have time to drop by for a class.

[@corazzinatanner498]

Agreed. Start with breaking down the mechanics, work in smooth transitions, speed and muscle memory improves. Its no different than learning how to play an instrument or anything requiring physical dexterity.

[@jethorex]

A lot of these techniques are actually very similar to traditional(koryu) Japanese jujutsu. Just shows how historical styles across the world have more in common than one would think.Aka the human mind can only think so many ways. The first wrist takedown is called take ori, The shoulder break is o gyaku and the arm bar is oni kudaki In the Japanese styles.

[@gretashapiro4118]

Very good point, that goes for combat arts in general as well world wide. There is only so much the human body can do in various positions and techniques. People also think of only the Orient when it comes to martial arts , they never think of European countries being at perpetual States of war for hundreds of years in close proximity to each other, so they had to be warriors in those kingdoms. Shaolin warrior monks for example , no real fighting on record but look at the knights Templar, real warrior monks that practiced combat and studied the Bible in a monastery . Imagine the martial arts that we could learn that wasn't based on animal mimicry but usable techniques and strategies..rant

[@jethorex]

@@gretashapiro4118 well the orient shouldn't be excluded. Many places worldwide have developed effective war arts. Although yes the shaolin isn't what I'd call a historical representation of the way Chinese fought.

[@johan.ohgren]

I wouldn't say it's because humans can only think in so many ways, but rather everyone eventually ends up with the stuff that works, makes sense and is practical. For example; if you're trying to figure out how to block sword attacks with your own sword; there's a very real limitation as in how many techniques that fullfill the criteria of working reliably, makes sense in what you're trying to achieve and is practically usable in a real-world situation. Stuff that don't meet the criterias won't be taught for long before they're abandoned in favor of better techniques.

[@jethorex]

@@johan.ohgren well yeah but that's also what I meant. One can only think of so many *effective * ways to handle a weapon or their own body. Anything beyond that ends up being ineffective

[@Khrene]

The human body can only move in so many ways and maintain structure and effectiveness!

[@balkantraveler7674]

Great material! The use of multiple daggers to practice in sequence was AMAZING, and something i have never seen before, plus it allows one to practice in greater speed and in succession. Also, i agree 100% about the habit of handing back the weapon. I 've heard similar stories myself

[@GameTimeWhy]

I found a really good way to learn about how dangerous knives are was when we used zappy ones. They were sort of like knife shaped electric fly swatters. They were safe enough we could train hard but let you know when you were hit, which was often.

[@andrewrobertson3894]

We did a similar thing but with water based marker knives. Everyone was slashed and stabbed multiple times, many 'wounds' were potentially fatal.

[@GameTimeWhy]

@@andrewrobertson3894 that's a good one too! I think it surprises most people how hard it is to effectively defend against a knife if you have just your hands.

[@Lurklen]

@@andrewrobertson3894 Do you know where you could get something like those? I've been looking but I've found nothing. The marker ones sound more illustrative (if messier) than the zappy ones, but both seem useful.

[@andrewrobertson3894]

@@Lurklen I'm not too sure, sorry but I'll have a look around and let you know here if I find a supplier. I did Senshido for a couple of years and there was a fair amount of training based around weapons. Nothing like HEMA level training though, more like "How to kill someone by using a knife" and "How to not get killed by someone using a knife". Not sure I'd endorse either.

[@Lurklen]

@@andrewrobertson3894 Thanks! Yeah I'm not sure I endorse killing or being killed either lol. (As for HEMA or Senshido, I've done none of one, and very little of the other, but I'm interested in the faux knives for experimentation purposes. I've thought about how to do my own, but if someone's handled that bit, it saves me the effort.)

[@tetrarn]

This wasn't just a guide about daggers, you brought up many points that apply to all martial arts, thank you Skall!

[@goreobsessed2308]

Footwork and body mechanics are universal

[@wadimiru]

Main problem with all this "dagger/knife defence tecniques" - they need full plate armour to work (Good gloves are as minimum). Or else u end with at least hospital, more common - with grave :)

[@itsmeseventy7480]

@@wadimiru tbh it's just really because of the way it was designed.

[@player400_official]

@@wadimiru The loser of a knife fight dies on the street. The winner dies in an ambulance. That’s why you don’t get into knife fights unless you have no other option (ie you cant run).

[@gilzvit9112]

I am a long time practitioner and an instructor of kick-boxing and Bujinkan martial arts, and I love to see people who get the understanding how proper self-defence functions the same if it is any good. Footwork, natural movement, no strictness, timing and testing of techniques etc...Also, when we speak about self-defence, most people must also be psychologically prepared for the chaos of a fight, the adrenaline, the fear and anger, how to control yourself during an encounter, and also posses the violence of action. Many people that are well off don't experience something like that regulary, if at all. You can't feel sorry for your attacker. If your wellbeing is threatened, you must do all to protect yourself, but don't go overboard, know when ti stop. I had that problem when I was younger, I was too sensitive of other people. Great commentary! Long time follower of your channel, can't wait for more!

[@fricki1997]

13:04 when you bring your full Skyrim inventory to the sparring session. Now all that's missing are the cheese wheels and cabbages. Very nice video, both your explanation and commentary, and his instruction video. I wonder how well these techniques would've worked back in the day - my understanding is that any kind of knifefight is inherently dangerous, even if there's a large skillgap, simply due to the speed and vulnerability of your hands and arms.

[@Glimmlampe1982]

I think the main difference is the medieval clothing that basically is as thick as light armor. You can't just cut and stab through multiple layers of good quality linen and wool as easily as through thin and cheap cotton shirts. Thus the icepick grip etc., it's more like armored fighting. At least that's my understanding of the difference

[@Peacemaker_Erthoran]

Thx Skalla. Now I can flex infront of my friends when playing blade&Sorcery

[@bygonehope6158]

I used to train mma with this guy. He absorbs martial knowledge and conveys it to others quite well

[@zeratulthedark2985]

Kyle is my best friend from high school here in Elk City, Oklahoma. This video is awesome. Much love to my previous dungeon master and best friend.

[@blitsriderfield4099]

That bit about guards being fluid, my godfather was in the SCA, and he was one of the big names in our area. He and another really big name were dueling and from what I heard the majority of the fight was them moving around, shifting their guards and sizing each other up.

[@potatomatop9326]

Things i know about daggers: Used by an agile character Requires high agility and dexterity Requires high crit rate and crit dmg Sometimes good with life steal

[@aulderx1437]

Makes for an excellent throwing and concealed weapon if skilled enough

[@ninjagaro.]

16x damage if you hit the target while sneaking

[@Vainglory100]

@@ninjagaro. no they nerfed that IRL

[@ninjagaro.]

@@Vainglory100 it was very op, but what matters is if its fun, hope someday they bring back the old damage IRL

[@MeAuntieNora]

I have encountered a poisoned blade or two in my daggerwork as well.

[@vitaminc2161]

All I can think of when I saw the title is Thorfinn "Karlsefni", the promising boy, son of Thors.

[@hansvonzisimann44]

*Torufinn

[@DamnZodiak]

I don't know much about weapon-based combat, but I've been practicing and studying weaponless martial arts for more than a decade and I find that point about guards not being static incredibly interesting. Something that doesn't get mentioned often is that a static guard/stance makes your next movements more obvious and stasis generally makes you an easier target. Being in a constant state of movement can hide entries better than most would expect. A lot of beginners-intermediates in striking-based arts often stand still in sparring, often seconds at a time, while experienced fighters are almost always moving in some way. Be it pumping their hands, moving their head, bouncing in Karate, or extremely pronounced like the Jenga from Capoeira. It's a concept that almost universally applies to every striking art on the planet, and probably in most grappling arts as well. "You need to think about what you're doing when you're not doing anything" as an old training partner of mine once put it.

[@Canal_Marte]

12:45, Here in Brazil a Krav Magá pratictioner has already died for this reason, he desarmed the criminal and gave the knife back, his muscle memory has betrayed him.

[@xryeau_1760]

Did anyone record it?

[@Canal_Marte]

@@xryeau_1760 No, the thief was jailed some days after and he was the one who told this to the police.

[@xryeau_1760]

@@Canal_Marte Damn, a recording of something like that would be good for a laugh

[@itsmeseventy7480]

Is this a joke or for real?

[@PescesNonMortuum]

I am sorry mate...but....is this actually real? It so sounds like an urban myth....?

[@FoxvoxDK]

Here's one rule that was ALWAYS repeated to me; If you are going into a fight that is inescapable, unavoidable you must immediately recognize and accept that you will get hurt, maybe even fatally, but accept it and move on. You must shed that initial fear of harm right off the bat in order to see the whole picture. You may be able to think more clearly if you are at peace with the situation. This obviously doesn't work for everyone.

[@jeremygilbert7989]

That's just classic Sun Tzu. “Throw your soldiers into positions whence there is no escape, and they will prefer death to flight. If they will face death, there is nothing they may not achieve. Officers and men alike will put forth their uttermost strength. Soldiers in desperate straits lose the sense of fear. If there is no place of refuge, they will stand firm. If they are in the heart of a hostile country, they will show a stubborn front. If there is no help for it, they will fight hard. Thus, without waiting to be marshaled, the soldiers will be constantly on the alert, and without waiting to be asked, they will do your will; without restrictions, they will be faithful; without giving orders, they can be trusted. Prohibit the taking of omens, and do away with superstitious doubts. Then, until death itself comes, no calamity need be feared.”

[@zeratulthedark2985]

Dad taught me that 1 at an early age. When i started working in the penal system, that was a daily mantra. If ya gotta fight, then do what ya have to. And in prison, if an officer has to throw down, there is 1 goal. Survive. I literally walked into an attempted double homicide, and i waded in like it was just another monday.

[@ScottKenny1978]

@@zeratulthedark2985 you mean wading into an attempted double homicide wasn't just another Monday?

[@zeratulthedark2985]

@@ScottKenny1978 was more like a my friday incident. I was typically sent into blood baths or posted where they would occur. Facepalm and shaking my head were typically my inital reaction to violence.

[@ScottKenny1978]

@@zeratulthedark2985 "dammit, guys, why did you have to make all the extra paperwork for me today?!?" (Friend of mine works in the prison.)

[@SiriusAundB]

0:38 He's probably a cool dude and all, but Kyle Toelle looks like a sociopath on that book cover and it's funny as hell.

[@Psiberzerker]

Sociopaths don't look like sociopaths. In fact, it's a measure of success how long they can hide the fact that they're sociopaths. That's how they can wrack up a decent number of victims, or get elected to the Senate, for example. Goldfinger looked like a sociopath, (Or a Power Assertive Malignant Narcissist) so he had to depend on voters who were too self deluded to recognize that. You can judge some books by the cover, but don't be surprised when you find one misleading.

[@Rammkommando]

Oh no he is absolutely cool dude, go to the same place for this, he teaches pur dagger, since, and dussack classes. Of you ever spar him dont grab him he takes it as a challenge.

[@DrDubMemes]

@@Psiberzerker Wtaf

[@ScottyAlmondjoy]

@@Psiberzerker *Successful* sociopaths don’t look like sociopaths.

[@Psiberzerker]

@@ScottyAlmondjoy That's discounting successful sociopaths like Gaetz, and Shkreli. Some successful ones have resting rapeface, to the point that they're Memes for it. (After the fact. Because somehow everyone overlooked their Resting rapeface, until the allegations came out.) Some of them look like Bill Cosby. People pointed out how much the pope looked like Emperor Palpatine, while Darth Cheney was literally whispering over the president's left shoulder.

[@Phantom_Zer0]

I read the notification "how to fight dragons", i guess the subject is slightly different.

[@executioner_ecgbert884]

I think that'll be next week. We gotta start somewhere 😆

[@Phantom_Zer0]

@@executioner_ecgbert884 it may come in handy if we find ourselves lost in Indonesia.

[@LuxisAlukard]

You should go to Shads other channel Game Knights: there seems to be RPG sessions about dragons =D

[@Phantom_Zer0]

@@LuxisAlukard :)

[@freddymeng]

But what. About. DRAGONS?

[@kyotol1ght584]

I know it's HEMA as Kali/FMA practitioner I would highly recommend checking that out if you want to learn knife and dagger fighting.

[@catpowers9932]

I love that little tidbit you mentioned about the brutality of dagger fighting, I didnt realize how often your aim is to break your opponents arm. makes sense though, when close enough to grab at them you may as well try to disable them.

[@omarabe26]

Yeah that's what they do in Filipino knife fighting. They go for the tendons in the arms and legs. I think they call it "defanging the snake."

[@Brass_Heathen]

I would also say that the psychological factor of a broken arm or severed tendon is huge. As someone that has sustained broken bones it is a total mind f*ck. When it breaks it really makes you question your structure. Hard to describe.

[@yoavnissen8390]

I love your HEMA related videos. Hope you'll make more of them

[@VosperCDN]

Great teaching point when Kyle talked about how the manuscripts are just snapshots in time. It's just a picture, not a ironclad stance never to be changed.

[@bendover9813]

Skall, I don’t know who disliked your video, but I like your video. Good job, knocked it outta the park again.

[@danielmick5236]

0 dislike here.... maybe it was miss click/ tap

[@mikepette4422]

i see 5 dislikes and I guarantee 4 are just haters who dislike everything the other a misclick

[@chriswedemann8599]

Haters gonna hate.

[@LuxisAlukard]

I like this kind of historical videos, they're great

[@mizukarate]

Great analysis. The way you break it down shows your knowledge.

[@spontaneouscombustionman3012]

I love how supportive you are of the video he sent, its nice to see constructive criticism and not blind dismissal, though I suppose that is the purpose of the channel.

[@DeanCalaway]

I wish there was an MMA-style association that would promote historical weapon fights. I am well aware of the massive complications with that, but one can dream, just look at how MMA has demystified all the historical martial arts and a lot of modern masters of self defense.

[@executioner_ecgbert884]

Theres probably some renaissance fairs with some realistic fighters. Id love to see what you described, though

[@adamdeforest495]

There was a group of people years ago who were trying to do exactly that. I think it was in Australia. Could be wrong about that. Anyway, they would go into the octagon in full plate armor with blunted weapons and go to town. No holds barred. I don't know of they're still doing it, but there used to be some videos of it kicking around on KZbin.

[@pinarppanrapir9489]

@@adamdeforest495 They weren't trained in HEMA tough iirc. So it was MMA fighters in plate armor, needless to say, it wasn't that great

[@adamdeforest495]

@pinarp panrapir that's a good point. It would be really cool to bring it back with actual HEMA practitioners. As far as full contact armed fighting goes though it did check that box.

[@dojimanoryu4969]

You couldn't really emulate armed fighting with blunt weapons, the fighters would have to use the swords as maces.

[@RyuuKageDesu]

The ultimate technique is the one that keeps you alive, and in one piece, for that moment.

[@veryded7289]

Nigerundayo Smokey

[@JS-tv9ld]

I really enjoyed this, I'd love to see you break down the how and why of more techniques. Your insights put a lot of this into perspective for me.

[@executioner_ecgbert884]

Ive been trained in hand to hand combat since I was a child, but Ive never been very good with weapons. I feel like I always learn something new from your videos, thanks

[@beowulf.reborn]

12:21 You have to admit though if a scumbag attacked you with a knife and you skillfully disarmed them and then just casually offered them their knife back, that would probably mess with them pretty bad psychologically! 😂😂

[@Anino_Makata]

I can imagine a guy who's trying to mug you for your phone or wallet, then you disarm him. And then, you casually return his knife, and say, "No, too slow. Try again." The guy'd be like, "Fuck that, I know easier targets than this dude..."

[@blablablablabittybla561]

AGAIN!

[@annasstorybox7906]

Well I heard about a case where a police officer disarmed someone who was carrying a firearm. The disarm was successful. But due to the way they trained, which includes to drop the disarmed weapon in front of the training partners feet the officer in question did exactly that. I can't remember correctly what happened after that but as far as I remember the attacker regained the gun and either injured the officer and got shot by an other officer or the attacker injured the other officer before being shot... I do not remember correctly... But this example shows that training needs to be realistic and it needs to involve followup actions that avoid stuff like that...

[@Anino_Makata]

@@annasstorybox7906 Oh yeah, especially in actual life-or-death scenarios. 'Cause the training you took, the very practice that's supposed to keep you and your fellows safe, can end up getting you in more trouble than expected.

[@silata]

Fascinating, flow drill and footwork looks a lot like kali and a lot of techniques looks a lot what I do... except with karambit and knives. I love it! Great video!!!!

[@kyletoelle]

I've done arnis/kali/kombaton for like 8 years, it bleeds over.

[@totallymady42069]

This breakdown is so good, I love this style of video

[@jonathanbergeron5833]

Just bought a blunt steel dagger from Kult of Athena that arrived last week. I was planning on using it as my first ever sharpening project. After it's sharp I was going to use it for test light cutting. This video definitely caught my interest, it's cool to see how much grappling is in dagger fighting.

[@xvs01]

What perfect timing! I just bought a dagger!

[@dredgewalker]

In this modern age daggers are far more practical to learn as it's easier to hide them plus they have many practical uses other than fighting.

[@jonathanowen9917]

Great review. This dagger training looks very honest to the sources and functional.

[@kevinneighbour3458]

Yeah looks good. I've done some Mair's dagger work (admittedly not a great amount). But what I have done looks and feels alot like what Kyle is demonstrating. Very nice!

[@NicholasJeffery]

Excellent breakdown! The instructional appears legit to me as well, didn't raise any bullshido flags. I can definitely vouch for the brutal arm break there. Either the shoulder gets cleanly popped off, or the arm is bent WAY past the elbow. Some of the redirect and arm lock sets up nicely for either a leg trip or a hip toss. And yes, every move has a counter and every counter has a counter to that. It boils down to luck, and who has spent a bit more time training usually.

[@raziyatheseeker]

The point where mentioned how the two-handed grab-block could fail stood out to me. Too many "experts" proclaim that their techniques are foolproof, and sell them as such. However, being honest and mentioning that even X technique is a crapshoot -- even if a potentially life-saving one -- is almost unheard of, and valuable for it.

[@kyletoelle]

Definitely a point that most people forget is that these techniques aren't perfect and some do better in different contexts. The X block or shears block is better done in armor vs unarmored, but its depicted unarmored so obviously people tried to teach it in both, but my training partner and I noted the number of bruises on the tops of ours head if we didn't get it just right.

[@amaurystengel]

Very interesting video and a new subject for the channel as well! I would definitely like to watch more videos about dagger techniques, sparring, etc, Skal!

[@gurthangorcus]

Skall - to help explain why you can train two moves (especially in defense) is that your first move is a reaction and the second is you taking initiative. Once you have initiated your movement (2nd move) the opponent will react to you. Their movement may or may not hamper completion of your intended attack, but that is up to your opponent and therefore good training prepares you for the most common and effective responses.

[@shawnchildress1484]

Hey if Kyle can teach Brian and Jason from The Modern Rogue German war wrestling I'm convinced he knows what he's doing 🤣

[@junichiroyamashita]

He was the same? I couldn't recognise him without the snazzy suit.

[@shawnchildress1484]

@@junichiroyamashita right! I had to look it up myself but thats him

[@zeratulthedark2985]

I haven't had the opportunity to train or spar with Kyle in 9 years almost. Most of what i know is akido based for prison fighting. I would love ring time since its been so long. But i would definitely love to be able to work on escrima with him again.

[@kyletoelle]

@@zeratulthedark2985 who are you? You'd have to of known me at either Chris Pollman's or SWOL?

[@kyletoelle]

@@junichiroyamashita Yup its me, snazzy clothing was at the dry cleaners.

[@donaldthump6461]

If you’re getting more into dagger/knife fighting. Maybe make a video on Kali? The Filipino martial art

[@AstralS7orm]

Kali is not quite a defensive system, because its philosophy is, if you're not attacking first, you're probably dead. (Similar to Krav Maga, and a failing of both.)

[@donaldthump6461]

@@AstralS7orm would still be interesting

[@Pupcan]

I appreciated your comment regarding practicing the idealized technique first and THEN trying to use it in a more chaotic sparring situation later. I think that's why Eastern martial arts have forms/kata so often.

[@tubebobwil]

One of your best videos.

[@TheLord0Ice0Wind]

This looks like good stuff and makes a case for making a modern roundel dagger, from say lathe turned bar stock, aircraft grade aluminum would even be an option for a 'short pointy stick'

[@HadenParkes]

I always call it screwdriver fighting when I am explaining it to new people who want a modern context ;)

[@chadherbert18]

Fun! I have 8 oak daggers, so I’ll try that rapid-fire technique in practice! I was running a class teaching the basics, and I add some fun stuff into workshops as newbs can fatigue with the sword over 2 or 3 hours! Lol! Women and kids especially seem to enjoy it as much or more than Longsword. Testing the techniques out on different body types is advisable. Some things that work well on same-height individuals, offer the defender different angles and alignments of bones and joints when the attacker is a foot shorter or taller than you, so you need to learn to adjust, which is good practice as the movements are all dynamic and need adjustment from the template anyway. For instance, one student is a foot shorter than me and after I defend her dagger and move to perform a single-leg trip, she simply steps out of it. Works great on taller people without issues, but where my calf would normally snap in behind their’s calf, I actually would contact the back of her knee, so she would anticipate and as I placed my leg, would circle her leg around to the inside of mine! 😂 The answer was simple - if I saw her anticipate, I’d step behind her rear leg instead and it became more of a hip-toss with my thigh and to her detriment to lift one leg! 🤦🏻🗡🤪🤷 Practicing with my real replica from Tod Cutler on water bottles was an eye-opener! First, there was a fair degree of hesitation to grip my blade - immediately changed the way I did it! Also, those thin points will stick into anything they touch and I came to respect the blade as soon as I pulled it out of the scabbard! They are murder sticks, and I think the rib-stopper’s are there for good reason! Would be fun to do some testing on flesh, Gambeson, and mail though, to get a feel for the necessary amount of impact force I’d actually need to harm the target...

[@Kamamura2]

Congrats! If our glorious nation gets attacked by the water bottle people, I will look you up!

[@chadherbert18]

@@Kamamura2 They won't know what hit'em! Lol

[@bariscankaya6754]

Can't wait to try this on my handicapped grandma! Thanks Skal!

[@nyxfile9580]

I needed that for my book! Thank you so much 🥰

[@ernonikkola1084]

About 75-95% speed sparring/training with daggers is great fun, even if it is just repeating the same technique. You get bonked on the head (mask) ALOT, and it really drives home the point of "if you see a knife, you run".

[@goreobsessed2308]

Theirs actually an muslim saying I love about knife fighting. Two men fight with knives, One man wins dies later celebrating from many cuts.

[@ScottKenny1978]

I've always said that if you get in a knife fight, someone is getting stabbed/sliced. Probably both/all of you.

[@chriskaschafsky5846]

This is a great video. I'm a perfumer by trade,. Aa part of that i have to go to where the perfume is made. This means that I often find myself in other countries. A long knife or dagger is rarely restricted. As result i learned knife fighting for the protection of me, those who travel with me, and my wears. As I watched this video I was literally saying, "done that, did that, yes that was right ". I am a overweight caucasian male, I am not graceful at all. What is being shown here is, in my opinion, how to keep yourself alive. As a final note, if you do find yourself crossing into a country that will not let you take your knife or dagger with you. Mail ut home if you have any attachments to it and just buy a new one where you are. A gas station $20 knife is going to keep you just as ready as a $2,000 Japanese forged fighting dagger set. When you leave, just find a homeless guy and give it to them now that you have you normal stuff. You may want to explain to the guy why you are arming them. I have made some of my best contacts this way.

[@andrewrobertson3894]

What an interesting comment. You should make a video about some of your travels.

[@chriskaschafsky5846]

@@andrewrobertson3894 thanks for the idea but I'm not an on camera person.

[@andrewrobertson3894]

@@chriskaschafsky5846 Fair enough, mate.

[@junichiroyamashita]

That looks like a very interesting life you are living mr Kaschafsky

[@chriskaschafsky5846]

@@junichiroyamashita an interesting life is what everyone should know.

[@cas9656]

Smashing video Skall, tbh I can totally see that stack of daggers for the sake of the disarming demonstration being something used for a bit in an action comedy film. Like a guy picks up a load of knives and get's disarmed over and over.

[@aSimpleWanderer]

Perfect timing, I just recently started to be very interested in knives and daggers. Must be fate. 💪

[@winstonsyme7672]

Any combat is a game of Rock/Paper/Scissors in technique. You gamble on a technique that either they will not know how to counter it because they are less skilled, that they will execute the counter ineffectively, or that they will also gamble on a technique and you will win the gamble. Back to the Rock/Paper/Scissors analogy, yes rock will beat scissors, but in combat not everyone will know how to throw rock and even if they do, in the heat of the moment they may simply throw paper or have a moment of indecision or get distracted and fail to throw anything.

[@pencilbender]

My aikido teachers at one point got angry with me for not jumping and rolling by myself after they brushed past my outfit. I had no idea what the hell they wanted from me and was too awkward to ask.

[@pencilbender]

@Random Songs In Locrian it’s been a few years, but dang Bois, Just tell me what to do and why we’re doing it, don’t just go through the motions. It’s not a fortnite dance. I really don’t understand getting angry over something they didn’t communicate to begin with lol

[@tannerolafson3619]

Hey skal I love your content, you got me into HEMA.

[@Ivalid321]

It also happened to a french police officer. He got into a shoot out and suddenly moved out of cover to pick up the spend casings like he was told at the shooting range.

[@ScottKenny1978]

And several NYC officers, looking for the brass bucket back in the days of revolvers. Train, then break, then clean up.

[@carloc352]

Now, that’s a good point. No technique works 100%. Entering a fight means risking one’s life, no matter how trained one is. Btw, interesting how the Krav Maga block technique wouldn’t work just because here the dagger is long! Context makes the difference.

[@jgappy5643]

THE Krav maga block? Does Krav maga have only one block for knives? As far as I know Krav maga does teach different blocks on stabs, and cutting. There is no unique Krav maga block for knives. And yes daggers are longer, but I guess training with knives is more realistic because in general if someone carries a stabbing object it will be a knive and not a dagger. So training with daggers can be good and fun in historical context, but how will someone who is trained on handling daggers, react on a knife (which is smaller,lighter and therefore generally faster)? Furthermore, they (Krav Maga) train knife techniques in a way that your opponent stabs you if your technique does not work. At least we do. We also train stabbing multiple times in a row, since that is a situation that also might happens in a fight were a knife is involved. Mind you: I am not saying Krav maga is the ONLY possible answer. Its just one possible answer. Training in sprinting and get the hell away is a very good answer too for example 👍😁. Cheers.

[@flamezombie1]

Woah, Cymbrogi is a really cool gym! Those guys are here in Oklahoma. If you're ever in the area, do check them out, really nice dudes. I'm a little far from them but I have friends come up from the gym to do sparring every month.

[@brianthebarbarian7860]

You at tattershall?

[@flamezombie1]

@@brianthebarbarian7860 No I'm up here in Stillwater! Running the only (very small) HEMA group afaik. I've visited the SCA guys here a few times and Tattershall visited once for an event they held. I've tried to make it an actual organization but it's difficult with the 'rona and trying to find a place for a gym. Hell, it's hard to find committed people to come every week to meet when it's free haha!

[@tbishop4961]

@@flamezombie1 you going to be at the guthrie fair next month? I'm hoping to pick up some sparring partners there

[@flamezombie1]

@@tbishop4961 I'm 50/50 right now. Depends on how many of us want to go.

[@tbishop4961]

@@flamezombie1 ultimately, I'd like to open a semi private club in the city for evening sport. Not a place for instruction, but fencing and perhaps a bit of boxing and wrestling among enthusiasts all around the area. (Also not HEMA specific). In my fantasy, it looks like a tavern where the 3 musketeers would hang out and brawl and then buy drinks for those not killed

[@MrEnaric]

Very nice to see and hear you explain, Skallagrim. I know the positions from manuscripts of the 15th-16th centuries, but never in action. The Rondel(le) and zweihänder or bidehänder were the preferred weapons of one of my ancestors, Pier Gerloffs Donia (died 1521). Known primarily for his skill with his sword on the battlefield defending Frisian independence, he challenged lords like Ravenhey with his dagger, showing nobility knew how to fight with daggers as well. The dagger is now lost, but his bidehänder sword (all 205 cm of it) is still on display in the Fries Museum, Leeuwarden, Netherlands. It became the ultimate symbol of Frisian freedom. The size of Pier and his legend in the wars against the Saxons and 'Hollanders' gave him the nickname 'Greate Pier', 'Pier the Great'.

[@samwhary5498]

Hey awesome! I've been waiting to see a demonstration for my own particularly big daggers.

[@Alltaer]

Before I clicked on this video, I did read "Historical Daughter Fighting" on the thumbnail and was very confused for a good moment

[@lanitatoelle9761]

For 100$ kyle will teach you daughter fighting

[@robmorris7667]

Having been a martial arts instructor for more than 30 years i can say that knife fighting needs to be fluid. i have had to use it in real life and My stuff works. So developing reality in arts is important

[@kyletoelle]

Amen to that.

[@Liqweed1337]

i hope we see more blade presentations in future

[@Juiceboxdan72]

That's a good point you made about 12 minutes in, about not handing the weapon back when drilling disarm techniques. I used to have a couple of books on martial arts-related stuff for police officers, and there were several real-life accounts; for example, an officer succeeded in disarming an armed robber, then promptly handed the gun back, just as he'd drilled 1000 times! This is a problem in karate-style self defense as well; you do full-speed techniques but "pull" or "control" the strike, then in a real situation you can't actually hit the opponent! I was told there used to be a popular shooting drill for officers, in which they would draw their weapon, fire two rounds, and reholster it. It fell out of favor when they started finding dead officers with holstered weapons, and only two shots fired.

[@MGShadow1989]

I had a thought just as you mentioned muscle memory - I suspect that none of these 'keyboard warriors' trying to discredit a technique have practiced anything; knowing is one thing, doing is a whole other level.

[@Rocjhead118]

Handing back the weapon... xD I love it

[@ryanmckenzie5918]

I think another good way to practice good habits after the disarm (instead of handing straight back to your partner/opponent) is to either add a follow up attack or retreat into a defensive stance (physically and mentally), depending on which habit you want to form. Either way, you're training follow up instead of just ending with the disarm. I've heard for some competitions, the action stops at a successful disarm, so it's possible the habit was picked up in that way, as well.

[@Pupcan]

In aikido, whenever we're practicing weapon takeaways, there's a distinctly ritualistic-looking sort of handling of the weapon as we hand the weapon back. After absorbing your video, it dawns on me that this elaborate bowing protocol also serves to give a break in the action, allowing the practitioners to mentally switch gears. Also, I need to try out the armload o' daggers solution in class. I've never seen it done that way, but it's a simple solution to the problem. You explained the one-or-two moves per every one move principle well! I will gladly pass that along.

[@miguelabad140]

I fought with daggers and it cost me approximately a kidney for the hospital bills

[@dojimanoryu4969]

You survived and didn't sustain permanent injury(i presume) so you're the winner.

[@thomasrobson6370]

F.Y.I. one time I thought I'd resist my master as he was demonstrating a throw, he realized what I was doing so he didn't hold back and used full force; it was painful and he still threw me like a rag doll

[@shawnwolf5961]

I have always been more into the sword stuff, but this dagger fighting looks really fun! If I had more finances to put towards things like this, I'd definitely give it a buy, pretty damn cool!

[@shotgunridersweden]

very nice review of Kyles work :-)

[@raphlvlogs271]

how long can the longest dagger be?

[@TrueMentorGuidingMoonlight]

What do you think of curved daggers? I was gonna get into sabre sparring, and thought it might be cool to have a curved dagger to match.

[@webbowser8834]

Not a martial arts expert, so take what I say with a grain of salt. The main advantage with curved blades is that you can make deeper cuts, as the blade runs naturally across your target even if you fail to cut all the way through. The big disadvantage is that grabbing the blade becomes much more dangerous, because the risk of the blade rotating in your grip and cutting up your hands is much greater for a curved blade than a straight one. This can essentially cross off certain techniques and grips like half-swording, because you can't do them safely.

[@kyletoelle]

Most of the techniques and tactics I go over are universal, the slashing of hands/wrists would be more useful with a curved dagger.

[@sergeykolesnikov6333]

Thank you! Very interesting video!

[@derekburge5294]

In regards to handing the knife back, the Pittsburgh HEMA club I went to had us perform a return stab after each disarm, *then* hand the dagger back.

[@Irond3vil2]

Best I've got is a akm-bayonet

[@junichiroyamashita]

Does this work with a scottish dirk?

[@rowangallagher4579]

I would love to see some of this hell yeah. Knife fights are visceral.

[@baudricourtphilippe1310]

Cool ! Dagger is my favorite weapon, even though I'm more in the Fiorre style ;)

[@fizzledimglow3523]

Quick on the draw, think I'm first.

[@Peacemaker_Erthoran]

You are. Cobgrats

[@LaSt_HiT_cRiTiCaL]

Crondonkulations

[@maccurtis730]

This is the type of commentary you need when seeing a knight fight.

[@jorgefernandez6407]

A very interesting video. Thankbyou...

[@IronBodyMartialArts]

Very good stuff. And you mentioned the pillars / stance/ structure being paramount and I would agree. The shame here is, if we cross worlds for a bit. Many of these techniques ARE represented in traditional martial arts Kung fu and jujitsu. But are considered, impractical and “fake”. When actually they are in keeping with real battlefield combat skills where the opponent may have armour or some sort of protection. For instance many techniques within the Bujinkan literally mirror many things shown here. But there is a consensus that it is fake.. along with other samurai arts such as Aiki Jutsu/ Aikido. Kobudo. Ect. This culture of ignorance is fostered by KZbins. “Expose” martial arts channels. Which are actually largely garbage and ignorance and focus largely around sport combat ( which is great) but not the be all and end all. As you guys would well know.

[@giggityguy]

If you're drilling disarms, presumably there's only one weapon between the two of you, so wouldn't it just make sense to counterattack as soon as you take it? You're drilling an appropriate response, and your partner gets to take their turn drilling the disarm. I guess then your muscle memory would be to attempt a lazy, counter-able strike, but it's got to be better than handing it back to them lol

[@player400_official]

If an armed guy attacked you with a knife and you disarmed him, would you keep attacking him despite the fact he is unarmed now? Cuz I would prefer to just run away and hope he does not like his knife enough to chase me.

[@TokyoDrift456]

i have something im curious about, watching stuff like the Yakuza games has made me wonder, how effective would a baseball bat be as a weapon, metal or wooden baseball bats to be precise

[@GameTimeWhy]

It's a club made specifically for speed and accuracy. It will keel. Different materials will be more durable than others though.

[@TokyoDrift456]

@@GameTimeWhy this question extends also to sporting equipment, like how effect would american football gear be against bladed weapons, motorsport helmets, etc

[@webbowser8834]

@@TokyoDrift456 Sports and biking helmets are likely on par if not superior to medieval era helmets in terms of protection. They're designed to take absolutely incredible beatings and I don't believe they're particularly vulnerable to being cut. The padded clothing used in American football would likely offer similar protection to medieval padded leather armor, it could soften physical blows and protect against glancing cuts and scrapes and the like, but it would likely not stop direct blows. Baseball bats can and have been used as deadly weapons, so I think that fact speaks for itself. Golf clubs are noticeably less durable then baseball bats, so they would be less reliable as a weapon but still plenty dangerous. No other sporting equipment immediately comes to mind in terms of combat utility.

[@GameTimeWhy]

@@webbowser8834 agreed about the golf club. Not as durable but they could definitely crack open someone if no helmet because of that forward weight and momentum or break ones. Lacrosse kidney protectors are made to be smashed and be pretty good against slashing and blunt.

[@ScottKenny1978]

The major advantage is that it's "sporting equipment". There was a long time that I had a Glove, bat, and a couple of balls in the car. Yes, I did play softball (work league), but it's also a useful "idiot calibration device" Not like you're wandering around openly with a sword, asking to get arrested/shot.

[@indy2867]

I haven’t looked into German HEMA, but these are the same for Fiore. It makes sense but it’s still cool to see.

[@willowmoon7]

Quality content 💯 I need some ibuprofen now though, those bullshido clips were physically painful to watch