How To Find Your Bowling Stats | PAP | Rev Rate | Speed | Axis Tilt & Rotation | WHAT ARE YOURS??

[@reyngel]

You guys are quickly becoming the best bowling channel on KZbin. Great camera work, great editing and music, great mix of personalities, thorough long-play ball reviews, and now really well-done guides and tutorials. Keep up the great work! 🔥

[@jrproshop]

Thanks Ben! Means a lot

[@bobdilon2059]

This was the single most informative bowling video. You guys are amazing!

[@jrproshop]

Thanks bob!

[@natec3993]

Finally a bowling KZbin channel that I actually like watching.

[@nordattack]

There is a super easy and sure way to find your PAP. 1. Take a dry or wiped ball, preferably a black non-flaring urethane ball so you get only one oil ring, or very tight oil rings. 2. Make what you consider a "very good" release. 3. Make sure to have another ball already on the ball return. 4. When your ball comes back on the return, after you have made your perfect shot, put your ball "behind" the other ball so that other ball is touching the right side of your ball (if you are a right hander. Reverse this for a left hander) 5. With your ball face up, finger holes on top and thumb on bottom, adjust the orientation of your ball until the first oil ring is exactly straight up and down. 6. Note that on the right side of your ball it is touching the other ball. 7. The exact spot where your ball is touching the other ball is your PAP. 8. Mark it with tape and throw a few shots. You should see that tape will be still when starting to go down the lane. If it is "still" you are done. 9. If the tape rotates a tiny bit when the ball starts down the lane, move the tape around slightly until it remains still going down the lane. 10. Take your ball to a PSO with the tape on it so he can measure your PAP and give you the specs.

[@PuckHead00]

This is an awesome (and simple) way of doing this … thanks so much for sharing, Nord! 🍻

[@nordattack]

@@PuckHead00 My pleasure.

[@meb1998]

I rarely comment but had to here. This was the best video to help me understand the pap and axis tilt rotation and actually how to find out, both for 1 handed and 2 handed bowlers, with the rev rate and speed to boot. Wow. Thank you guys.

[@dijigo1587]

Absolutely first class. Best video/explanation I've EVER seen for these critical stats, all in the one place. Sharing this with my bowling buddies. Thanks guys, you rock!

[@luizinhiolv]

Thank you so much for this so important video about our DNA. As a 2 handed I haven’t watched yet in just one video how to get my numbers , and their comparison to one handed at the same time. I will share this video to my entire team for being aware of our arsenal and trying to improve it. Excelente video para conocer nuestro ADN y mejorar nuestro juego en la liga. Lamentablemente los pro shops en México no te apoyan para sacarlos y jugamos con solo la experiencia. Gracias en verdad que este video lo verán muchos compañeros. Extraordinaria serie que hicieron desde la explicación de cada parámetro y ejemplos para una y dos manos. Saludos desde México

[@tehSlushie]

I've enjoyed watching JR Pro Shop videos but this is the one that made me subscribe, so much information in this video! I love it.

[@hackprefect]

I've had my stats figured out for a few years now, and I will check them every year or so to see if they've changed. As of right now, my PAP is 5.25 over by. 75 up. Speed is 18mph. Rev rate is right around 410rpm. Tilt is around 3*, and rotation is about 50* using my normal release. I tend to gravitate towards symmetrics with medium diffs and asyms with lower intermediate diffs, and I typically use longer pin length layouts on everything stronger than entry level, because anything shorter than 4'' pin to PAP loses energy too fast. I want to get a couple of my friends to figure their stats out, and this video is perfect for showing them how and why they need to.

[@jrproshop]

That makes sense why you'd pick those types of balls

[@enigmazero8624]

I would be interested to know the stats of Jungo and Barks as well. Also, suggestion for the topic of a future video: how would someone use these stats to come up with a “base layout” (if you believe in having one)?

[@joechacon8874]

YES! Been searching far and wide for a demo of getting ball stats. Thank you guys. Really enjoying all of your videos.

[@Htiger3841705]

Nice educating and entertaining video you have made. Two-handed bowler fans from Taiwan!

[@davidprice2111]

I just came across this video today and it is the best done bowling video I have seen. Thanks.

[@thesickness431]

Truly a fantastic video! So much information, but put in a real easy to understand way. Great production, great editing, great people, awesome work guys!

[@danielking8983]

This is good info. I don’t know any of my stats. Ask my pso about but guy is ridiculous busy. I’ll give this a go and see what I come up with.

[@Remark997]

You guys really enjoy what your'e doing and it shows. Great camaraderie. There is a lot of valuable info on this channel. I look forward to more videos! Thank you

[@kahuna53]

Thanks!

[@jasonlim1409]

Hi JR Pro Shop Team, love your videos. Keep up your good work! I plan to visit you guys to get a ball drilled when I am next in Seattle. I think it is a two hours drive from the airport. All the best! Cheers!

[@dragoon1205]

Wow guys Ive been trying to up my game and play more competitively and this video was so imformative and detailed. Im definitely going to try this myself thank you very much. Also whoever disliked this video must not be serious about the sport of bowling

[@joeloua2705]

I've got my average up to 200 plus now to watch this and see how to track these beautiful stats one day. Thank you other vids with this stuff aren't very good this one was fantastic.

[@jacksonfoster2946]

i am at 205 now and this video was awesome !!-thanks for leading me to the roto-grip ufo !!

[@mnowotny3457]

Very well done video with great information that’s easy to follow. Thanks!

[@artisswhren304]

Definitely need more info on the no thumb style of bowling

[@1337chunkypuff]

just did my specs pap:: 5 1/2" over 6/8th" up speed (off hand): 19.18 mph rev rate: 393 rpm Axis rotation: 65 degrees axis tilt: 13 degrees. im slighty speed dominant

[@joelosurdo4858]

Great Stuff guys! Keep them coming!!

[@BasketBowlers]

Have you guys used Tenpin Toolkit to calculate these things? Just wondering how accurate it is compared to how you did it in this video.

[@joepic85]

I did all these. This is what I got. 315 rev rate, 5 degrees tilt, 80 degrees axis rotation, PAP is 6 over by 1/2 up. Ball speed 16.25

[@jrproshop]

Nice !

[@bobgomavitz1330]

Rotation is the hardest for me as I have no idea how to overlay that graph onto a vid. The rest is pretty easy as I bought the two tools that pro shops use and learned layouts. Chances are that I need different balls to match up to my stats. 4 7/8’s over, 3/4” up. Ball speed I need to redo and not use the lanes stats that seem to be off. Your chart will be helpful as the lanes say 13.5 to 12.75 mph which I think is at the end of the pattern. My axis tilt is for sure more than 45 degrees as ai have trouble getting the ball to roll more than spin. Rotation is about 70 looking at that chart. Rev will be below 300 but how much I need to find out. Will work on getting cleaner information after watching this vid....great stuff and thank you

[@laurencebooth9280]

Great, really great video!!!!!!!!!!! I have seen a lot of videos on this subject, but you guys knocked out of the park!!!!

[@joepic85]

Can you guys talk about mass bias and whats the difference if it is by the thumb or kicked way out to the right with an assymetrical ball?

[@jrproshop]

Hmm

[@ronlanham3565]

Great video! This will be very helpful for me to get my info. Thanks!

[@jonsides4017]

Using this video, I learned all of my bowling stats yesterday. I do have one question though. Measuring for my axis tilt I kept getting 14.5". Using the chart you provided does that put my axis tilt at -7?

[@jrproshop]

The highest flare you should get for axis tilt is 13.5" which equates to 0 degrees. Try throwing a few more balls and ensuring the marked line is perfectly parallel to the table.

[@JFance]

Good info.. Going to get these stats from my proshop.. So I can finally answer the question to what is my Rev rate.. Keep up the good work guys.. Thanks

[@gregorywilson7118]

Very helpful and informative👍

[@rlattisaw2]

Great video.....one question. Can you find your PAP using a ball that's not drill for you specifically? Like if you're new and buying your first ball.

[@jrproshop]

It won’t be a perfect way of measuring it, but you can get it very close

[@trails4days]

Very informative video! Thanks for the info!

[@popanda3652]

ima go figure out my stats now!Ive been having a tough time keeping a hustle wine on the lane. looking for a reason why so i can get my next ball!

[@brianchester4218]

WOW that was an awesome video learnt so much, in UK most pro shops just sell you any ball of your choosing and drill it as your lay out chart, Request can you do a video on what to clean a ball with depending on cover stock etc etc

[@stompingpeak2043]

I've noticed that I have different tracks for different types of balls. If I use a really strong asym ill have a really high track thats flared like 8 inches. Then if I use a symmetrical or urethane my track will be closer to the thumb. Idk why but ill release every ball the same. Yet the big balls just have different tracks

[@jrproshop]

Yep because it's flaring immediately upon release that's why the pap needs to be measured as soon as the all is released from the fingers/ hits the lane

[@SIRxxGINGER]

Question, so I bought a rhino from my local pro shop(first bowling ball) we didn't do a pap measurement, rev calculation etc. Should I have had this done with a house ball before I purchased that ball or no? I was currently looking at buying an upper mid performance since black friday sales started but, ran up on the info of using pap and rev rate to help determine a ball that would fit me more. Not sure if the rhino has the correct pap(holes drilled) and I've read where people don't really recommend plugging and re drilling reactive coverstocks i think it said. I've learned a lot from the videos you guys post. Explanations are always really clear and I don't find myself having to move back to replay a certain part of your videos as much as I do others to because of missing something(I only replay certain parts to take mental notes)

[@jrproshop]

The PAP measurement on a house ball would be a fair bit different than where the PAP would be on the drilled reactive ball. For beginner bowlers, you’d typically get a very standard drill pattern, and that ball would be used to find an accurate PAP measurement for the next ball

[@Ottomaniac34]

@@jrproshop Thanks for this great informative video. You say you need a properly drilled reactivball to determine the pap correctly. Does this also apply to a plastic/spare ball standard drilled for my hand to find an accurate pap measurement for the next ball? Let's say for a first reactive ball.

[@maxsanchez2339]

This is helpful because my pro shop operator wouldn’t give my mine 😅 he acted like it was some big secret because he don’t want me buying balls anywhere else. Little does he know after that move I won’t spend a penny there again.

[@jrproshop]

Wow

[@PNWxTY]

Love the channel and video!! I have one question though... my pro shop told me there is a difference when finding your PAP between reactive and urethane bowling balls? Is this true? If so, why? Thank you guys in advance keep up the good work!

[@TonyChin107]

if you are able to manipulate the axis rotation and tilt, will that change the PAP numbers? if so, should we be measuring all these stats based on the bowler's normal release?

[@jrproshop]

Yes normal release and make sure it's a good shot

[@edwardkilgore5748]

What can know your stats do for you? Ball choice and hole placement ? Im 2 handed

[@jrproshop]

Yep, ball choices, hole placement (layout), surface choices. All so you buy balls with a purpose

[@coryclaxton2482]

Great vid. For the PAP, I understand the first measurement, but I was unsure what you were measuring against to determine the 1/2" up, 1/2" down, etc.

[@joshstreak5828]

that's just how far that point was from the midline

[@coryclaxton2482]

Ahhh. Ok. Thanks

[@jrproshop]

Yep directly between your fingers and thumb or middle of fingers if you don't use the thumb

[@traviskirk3834]

I am a speed dominant lefty with a low rev rate and my question is i went from finger tip to having sarge Easter grip which my ring finger is conventional and how much would my pap change from using both fingers at finger tip to sarge Easter grip.

[@dmpase]

What kind of tape are you using? What kind of tape is safe for both the ball and the lane?

[@MemphisNick]

Great video!

[@RobertoFernandez-dy7hi]

No clue.... yet. Trying to reserve a time from my pro shop to get my stats via Specto. Apparently, there is a waiting list. 😞

[@lonestarpatriot876]

So, if there is a huge variance in axis rotation, how does knowing the number help when doing this? Also, it seems to me that these numbers would change with time for a myriad of reasons. Knowing that, how often do you suggest to re-evaluate these numbers? It also seems to me that there is not only a variance in axis rotation but that bowlers routinely change speed and rev rate as a part of making adjustments. Correct?

[@jvalthedon8953]

Super helpful video guys. I now know that I can find my own stats without the help of a pro shop.

[@koreygregory8608]

Is Jimoo layout the same on every ball

[@danielbuehrig9422]

How do i get a ball fitted to my hand? Do i need to buy a bowling ball and have my pro shop fit it to my hand? Then throw that ball to find my stats? But should i then look into buying another bowling ball to work better with my stats My brother just bought me a storm high road bowling ball for Christmas and its not drilled so what should i do first Thank you kindly And happy new year

[@enigma8464]

Very informative information. I have a different PAP on each ball, to change up the layout. i have no idea on my rev rate, axis tilt/rotation, but my general speed is 20km/h so quite slow as well. My PAP on my Parallax is 6 inches, but i believe my PAP on my Hustle is 5 1/4. both roll very differently

[@joshstreak5828]

I don't think that'll be your PAP that's changing more likely your distance from your PAP to PIN which changes the strength and shape

[@jrproshop]

Josh is right pap doesn't change. As that's your release. The pin in relation to your pap is different due to different layouts

[@enigma8464]

@@jrproshop Ahh thats right, PAP to pin sounds familiar. geez i forget what my PAP is now...

[@yeaydee]

Really useful for us that dont have a proshop within reagular reachable range (400km) Quick question, center span for PAP, halfway from the center of the thumbhole to center of fingers, or drilling edges?

[@jrproshop]

It would be from the front of the thumbhole to the bottom edge of the grip of the middle finger (or bottom edge of the hole if you don’t use grips)

[@johnmaudsleyjr3046]

Looking for help. this what's I have figured out PAP 4.75 .50 down, average speed 19, revs 543, and I use my thumb. Thanks

[@jimmybrown8612]

All I can say is thank you guys

[@denmanfite3156]

Would a measuring tape (not the metal more like a vinyl one) work or is there a reason you opt to use the metal one?

[@davidk2137]

Does PAP change over the years? I wonder because my guy never suggests we measure it again. This was a fantastic video. Covering nearly all measuring necessities.

[@jrproshop]

Yea it will change slightly, especially if you change something in your physical game. I would remeasure it every couple years anyway it only takes a couple minutes

[@dylanjones7633]

Great video guys!!!!!

[@BARBELLS-AND-BUDS]

So I am a two-handed bowler. I've been bowling for about 7 or 8 months now once a week during league. Sometimes an extra time during a week for some practice games. I have several balls to choose from now to measure. Should I be using my maximum rotation to measure or should I try my weakest ball and try to go up the track? Should I put my hand under the bowl or around the side of it? I don't know which kind of release I'm trying to measure for my PAP

[@jrproshop]

In measuring for your stats, you want to be throwing the ball in the most comfortable way you can. Changing your rotation will not affect your PAP result too much, however, still try to throw the ball in your most comfortable position.

[@BARBELLS-AND-BUDS]

@@jrproshop thanks for the reply

[@byronfranek2706]

Thanks for the educational content. Your channel is very well conceived, and may be the best bowling channel on YT. My specs: 375RPM 16MPH 50 rotation 17 tilt

[@hyunbrothers]

How heavy are the balls they're using? Just wondering!

[@jrproshop]

15 pounds for the boys

[@hyunbrothers]

Thanks!

[@iamasooner86]

I really wish there was a “super love” “amazing” reaction!

[@markklemens3319]

If I were to throw different bowling balls, would my PAP be the same or slightly different?

[@jrproshop]

The same. Your pap is how you release the ball, so which ball you are throwing won't matter

[@edwardpetrosky1419]

When you say to make the oil ring parallel to the table and place the tape at the “top” of the ball, how do you determine which side of the ball is “top” vs “bottom”?

[@jrproshop]

The top would be the half of the ball you see when you release it. As you wanna see that tape

[@brandongoodman4116]

I talked about 30 years ago rebuilding bowling balls

[@swecklessgaming6286]

Nice vid! Does Yellow grease pencil or crayon wash off or does it do it in an extended amount of time?

[@jrproshop]

Wipes right off

[@alexanderbreen4010]

At what point can you start using the eye test to pick balls though? Because I’ve noticed as a speed dominant lefty I’m probably going to have more success with Solid coverstocks than pearlized covers just because the Solids will generally hook a little earlier than pearl balls. My first ball I ever threw was a Trend and I have to keep that thing at 2000 grit just to get it to hook enough for me

[@jrproshop]

Hmm I think it's more about the surface than the coverstock for you. You can sand down a pearl like you did with the trend and have it hook a lot earlier like a solid. But also for you being speed dominant you should be leaning towards more asymmetric balls

[@BasketBowlers]

Can you reverse engineer your layouts or PAP with a drilled bowling ball?

[@JoshyTB270]

You Guys Are Awesome Keep Up The Great Work! You Guys Should Do Tips and Tricks Video On How To Increase Or Decrease Your Ball Speed for any people who are having trouble speeding or slowing down their Ball Speed.

[@jrproshop]

Interesting idea. Will put it on the board!

[@brettrobbins2707]

I would say the biggest adjustment on that is just speeding or slowing your foot movement, if you try to control your arm your just not gonna be accurate

[@allanreagan8159]

I’m a newbie and haven’t started to throw a hook yet. Do I have to throw a hook to find my pap? Will the pro shop operator know how to find my pap without throwing a hook?

[@jamesbrusseau9194]

I really need the access rotation chart. Where do I get it I cannot find it anywhere

[@tigertolliver5199]

Brilliant!!!!!

[@BARBELLS-AND-BUDS]

How do I do this if I'm a new bowler and I don't have a bowling ball yet to use to measure with?

[@bowlingxp8345]

Even though this topic has been covered by other channels in the past, it is not bad to have another one. These methods are nice to have as sort of an approximation of the stats. Great job. However, if you want to know the real stats, the methods used here for Speed, RPM, Axis rotation, Axis tilt are not precise. Unfortunately all youtube videos propose these methods, so keep in mind that your stats will be off. Others by little others by more.

[@jrproshop]

If you slow down the video enough you can get extremely close without having fancy equipment like the Specto

[@bowlingxp8345]

@@jrproshop It's not about the video quality of frames per second, but the methods themselves. :) (also Specto gets it wrong as well unfortunately)

[@jasonsmith3537]

Let me say, seeing this channel and the vids like this....puts my local pro shop to shame. I have already bought one ball and had it drilled to fit. In the market for another ball and was looking at the black widow line and then a Purple Hammer.... My shop pro (supposedly holds some world record for 300 games?) shot down every ball I said I was looking into EXCEPT the one he had in stock. He NEVER asked me a single question, never took me out on the lanes (which they have 2 lanes reserved for the shop always), and instead spent his time shooting down every question I had instead of giving me answers. I am one of those people that will allow this for about 2 minutes before I call them out on terrible advice and services...supposedly from a pro. When I told him "I guess I'll have to go to KZbin to find a ball for me"..he said "The internet isn't where you learn how to bowl...you think a ball makes you a bowler...just buy a ball and learn to use it". I told him I currently average a 171 after 187 games since August with the ball I bought...may not be the greatest average...but I am obviously getting more serious about it and want a heavier ball...and one that I don't have to put so much work into to get to hook. I currently have one of those 12lb plastic balls that is supposedly a "straight" ball... When he saw my plastic ball he said "you roll a plastic ball, that's a spare ball...just get this one and learn to use it the right way"... I walked out.. they also REALLY screwed up the drilling and holes about halfway down have a HUGE hole between them and I can touch my fingers together in there...

[@yungavalor3192]

I bet once I find out my bowling stats my game will go way up!

[@ham4fun]

one of the bowling alleys I go to for advice/ball work has a "speedometer" on its lanes and it says I throw around 9 mph. I do have a feeling that is not 100% accurate though

[@drakiirdrakmog6769]

What do i do if i want to know my stats but my Pro shop guy doesnt tell me? When i bring him a ball he asks what do i want the ball to do (which to be honest i struggle with that answer cause i have so much to learn)? I want to learn how layout my ball and eventually learn to drill one, but i cant seem to find someone to teach me. None of the Pro Shop Operators here want to teach me and if they do they just direct me to a youtube page. I watch yall all the time and i want to learn my stats, especially that im a One hander and two handed bowler. Any tips to help someone like me out?

[@jrproshop]

That’s pretty odd, it should only take your pro shop guy a few minutes to get your stats for you. If you follow the steps here, you’ll get really close if not spot on. Your pro shop guy needs your stats to properly lay out a ball for you

[@drakiirdrakmog6769]

@@jrproshop he has them but just not written down. its like he has it memorized. When i ask for them to be written down then they ask why i need to know them.

[@UNcommonSenseAUS]

Does the "bowler Id" program do the same thing ?

[@jrproshop]

Yep exactly

[@caseycherrington2812]

Wouldn't your pap and other stats be different on 2 different balls drilled differently?

[@shawndavis8818]

Can you do all this with a house ball?

[@rlangton76]

This is the second video I've seen where you guys say axis tilt is just personal style and doesn't point to bad form. But it seems to me that it can mean you're moving your hand around the side of the ball too early, spinning it like a top, and getting a weak release. This was the case with me and something I've worked to correct through release drills. Also it seems like all the really good bowlers have low axis tilt. Am I missing your point on Axis tilt?

[@jrproshop]

No it doesn't point to bad form, there is no 'correct' axis tilt, it is just a measurement to know how the ball will react, but you are correct in that if you are too far one way or the other you should definitely be coached to get more into the 'happy zone' where more balls and layouts will work for you.

[@jeffthompson8033]

Dang it where's the notification tube

[@aydengianes2515]

Is it OK to put duck tape on the ball

[@Nellil]

I know my PAP 4 7/8 over 7/8 up , speed is about 17 mph. Rev rate , Tilt and Rotation not so sure... 🤔 🇸🇪

[@L.Norris]

I've been to several pro shops in the twin cities area and none of them can or will do any of these things.

[@jrproshop]

Wow keep searching till you find one that does hahah

[@RyanBischoffPercussion]

I just wonder how much oil is actually on the lanes I bowl on cuz I almost never can actually see the oil on the ball.

[@Rsal86]

If only we can find a Proshop that would care to know these information before recommending or drilling for the correct layout without any info.

[@vinhjasonchuong7542]

What is the benefit for finding your PAP? I have never did that nor heard of until this video.

[@edwardnajera2055]

What if my oil rings run on top of my finger holes?

[@SoCalGambler]

Is there a fee to have a shop get these numbers for me?

[@gilpadlan7108]

I been bowling for a while now, but I don't know my PAP.😢 my pro shop just drill up the bowl

[@josecabral8806]

What kinds of benefits do you get when you find your stats?

[@brandongoodman4116]

Rebuilding it different drill type

[@brandongoodman4116]

Re design pba bowling company over 🌊 and usa

[@jeremiahhart4357]

No I don't know what my stats are but I would like to

[@russellgilbert3453]

Nice, fellas, nice.

[@brandondriley]

Barko! I want to get remeasured tomorrow night

[@Drshockfreeze]

You going to be in a vid again soon!? You're insight on ball reviews are super enjoyable to watch.

[@brandondriley]

Much appreciated I won’t be at the next set of recordings but will be back on camera in a few weeks to teach + a review when the next release of balls are announced

[@aw-stk]

I counted 13 flare rings on my dv8 terror, pin down