How To Find Your Running Threshold & Race Pace! | Run Tests For Training & Racing Explained

[@gtn]

Have you ever done any of these tests? 🏃‍♂️

[@husainnaqi6016]

Yes I done all these tests now for running 5K race at what I effort I should run the 5K race ? 90% 95% of maximum HR ??

[@husainnaqi6016]

My threshold at 164BPM so 5K should be appove that ?

[@agenthoini]

Well not with that specific goal but i could probably just take my 5k pb pace for the 30 minute test. Theres no way i could hold that for an hour tho, still wondering how i even did it for the 5k :D

[@bikeanddogtripsvirtualcycling]

i absolutely know my different zones - for HR, pace and to some extent run power as well. I test for them every few months and make sure to update my Garmin, Strava and Training Peaks accounts accordingly

[@PhilJegier]

I hadn’t until recently. Was doing three runs / week for half marathon training and was taking the classic approach of “feels too slow, run faster” on easy runs etc. have adjusted now to follow the rule book and already noticing improvements in overall performance. Your channel is excellent. Thanks for the content👊

[@jamiefuhrman403]

Would be great to have similar videos for swimming and biking, and even a discussion on how to consider all three in combination during a triathlon

[@bikeanddogtripsvirtualcycling]

i use the exact same 30 minute test. the very first time i did this i went max effort 10/10 and burned out within 2k with around 23/24 mins left.

[@kurushw]

Love the fact that you'll are making these videos short. 6-8 minutes is best for viewing IMO.

[@askingwhy123]

The algorithm likes a minimum length of 8 minutes - which also allows 2 ads, fwiw.

[@SamMartinPeakPerformance]

Agreed 👍

[@hunched_monk3279]

I think these short ones should compliment the longer ones

[@benfeeney2523]

I was thinking about this last night, thanks for the great content again GTN!

[@Exalix]

What about using Garmin watch to calculate LTHR automatically? It’s very important if you have a Garmin running watch is to setup zones after %LT and not %maxHR. Standard zones are only for beginners. Zones calculated with %LT is much better, and actually allows you to run in zone 2.

[@SubtleForces]

My problem with these all-out 30 mins. tests? I will probably start all-out and realize 1k later, as gasp through the tracks, that I beat my 800m PB and will most definitely not continue with even a semi-decent pace for whatever time is left.

[@SamMartinPeakPerformance]

Needed this one today - lost track of a lot of these things since races started getting cancelled

[@ai314159]

"And with a good surface" over video of Heather running on a snowy/icy track 😂

[@hryvojta9846]

I was running threshold test on my new watch last week (increasing tempo every 4 minutes). All they way it was nice, flat and not really dry, but ok surface. Just when i was approaching my expected threshold, the path was covered with solid ice and the threshold was measured there on the ice. Now i am wondering if the reading was correct or if i should repeat the test... It is not fun test tbh... Fml lol

[@jstantonbeck]

One of the best explanations I have heard to date.

[@gtn]

thank you!

[@zerog4261]

Really enjoyed the video and v informative. The problem I have with these tests is amateur athletes get overly focused on things that will reap little results compared to a good structured sensible program. We forget world records were still extremely fast before these tests were used. Elite athletes need every micro second I know and of course its a tool of necessity for them. But how many people I've met who are average club runners at best but are hyper focused on these things, when indeed even if they just rested and recovered better they'd take a half minute off their P.B.

[@nathanmclain9027]

Well explained. Determining your zones and knowing when they change as you improve takes repeated testing, I preferred to use Power and buy a Stryd. Love to see you all talk about running power.

[@esoteric404]

Good info, thanks for sharing. Unfortunately I'm still dealing with achilles issues so I'm stuck with slower controlled runs atm. I look forward to giving it a go once I've regained the proper flexibility.

[@DanielJ.McDowell-tm7qq]

some good simple, solid, accurate, information.

[@rpark2109]

You all need to define what “all out effort” means. For many this could mean sprinting as fast as you can. But somehow I doubt this is what you mean by “all out effort” as everyone would fail the test within 200 meters (most likely for most of us under 100meters…it’s been shown that sprinters reach their top speed within a few seconds - I think around 4 seconds- and then after that there begins a decline in speed). So what does the phrase actually mean. You do mention that it is a speed you can hold for 30 minutes but how would a beginner or even someone at the low end of intermediate level know this without first doing the test…it seems like a chicken and egg scenario. It would be great to get better clarification on what this phrase actually means.

[@WildlikeDestination]

That's a very good point. Watched quite a few videos on this, and read articles. All of them state that you should aim for an "all out effort," but in reality, that's really something vague.

[@mackenzieusher8025]

I think you just need to give it a shot and figure the pacing out for yourself. Once it's over, a bit of reflecting should allow you to determine if you think that was your best effort for your fitness level. If not, where did it go wrong? ex. started out too fast/too slow, couldn't get in the zone to embrace the pain, etc.

[@beamermaid]

For me, this 30-min "all out approach" doesn't work or I couldn't crack it yet...usually after 15 min I'm out of breath and my entire body screams at me to stop. I'd try the lab tests, maybe those work better.

[@oliverchalkley1187]

I agree, it can take months for someone new to running to figure out their all out effort. And that's assuming they realise things like neutral/negative splits are a good way to go about it. @beamermaid it sounds like you're starting to fast fast. Find out the average pace of you last attempt where you finished the full 30 minutes. Take 10 seconds off that average pace and start at that. Once you are settled at that pace, if you feel like speeding up then allow yourself to do so but don't go faster than the average pace. By the end of the thirty minutes you will cover a little less ground but it should be super easy compared to your previous effort. This allows you to see just how slow and unnecessarily hard running too fast is. Redo the run at the same pace in the first half but think about really slowly speeding up above the average pace in the second half. This should teach you the power of proper pacing and it is the start of running times and distances that you never thought you could. It's amazing when you get it right, good luck!

[@ered_lithui]

You always have the right answers at exactly the right time! 🥰

[@frankbehrens656]

Great explanation, especially about the first 10 minutes. I am trainig based on heart rates and was always wondering about rubbish rates in the beginning.

[@combatdan]

Thanks for another well presented video. However, as others have already pointed out, the zones based on percentage of LTHR seem a bit high. Don't get wrong, i would love to believe I can run a full marathon in zone 2 at 153 bpm, but I'm not sure that is accurate. I'd be curious to know what your sources are. A much more common set of ranges I've seen is as follows: Zone 1 = 50 to 60 percent MHR and 65 to 75 percent of LTHR Zone 2 = 60 to 70 percent MHR and 75 to 85 percent of LTHR Zone 3 = 70 to 80 percent MHR and 85 to 98 percent of LTHR Zone 4 = 80 to 90 percent MHR and 98 to 105 percent of LTHR Zone 5 = 90 to 100 percent MHR and 105-plus percent of LTHR I would love to follow your numbers, but would like some scientific backing before I change my training. Thanks!

[@markthrelfall3577]

Hi. They’re actually the same as the Joe Friel zones for running, as used by Training Peaks as standard. I haven’t had an issue with them in the past, having coached many athletes for years. But interesting that you find they don’t correlate for you. The 40-50-60-70 is quite basic from my experience, and tends to be used as a bit of a beginners guide. That said, I will happily be proven wrong

[@combatdan]

@@markthrelfall3577 to be completely honest, I am very new to the cardiovascular side. Professionally, I am in musculoskeletal biomechanics both teaching academically and developing software. So, my interests in the science of triathlon training is extensive, and I love learning more. However, only in the past few weeks I have started focusing on my heart rate, and this video comes at a perfect time as I have been focusing on running in Zone 2, but struggling to keep my heart rate under 145 as my LTHR is 170. I have already seen some benefits of reducing my bpm, but my running speed has suffered considerably. Being a complete noob to the cardiovascular side, I am trying to find the best resources to improve my fitness to avoid bonking again in my next race. Until recently - when I started paying more attention to my heart rate - I apparently was running consistently at about 165 bpm even for 20-30 km. But then always had trouble with a full marathon distance and an IronMan 70.3. Dropping my heart rate to under 145 bpm feels near impossible to keep any semblance of a good pace. So, I am happy to try something new! Thanks for taking the time to reply, and keep pushing great content!

[@leeadams2413]

Ok thanks will give this a go. Was thinking of doing a 10km test but this could be better

[@wemorgan]

Nice video - many thanks. For those wanting a more automated tool might consider a Stryd power meter. Using their Auto Critical Power this is all done for you (sort of) :)

[@nathanmclain9027]

I’ve been using Stryd for over a year. I like the metrics however, I’ve found that unless you do a very wide variety of run distances and types, the zones can be low. So during off-season or builds to a race my Stryd CP can move wildly.

[@wemorgan]

Yes Stryd Auto CP works best with max effort runs of; 30s, 3, 10, 20mins. They can be done on separate days.

[@NathanBudd]

I commented on Dan Lloyd's Strava run yesterday asking for you to do a video of this!

[@ingeross4384]

Thanks for a great video.

[@danots]

Love the background music 😬👍

[@stephenliu5308]

I run with a Garmin watch and hear-rate chest strap. I just had a best-effort 5K run in just under 26:30 - not full 30 minutes, but close. The average HR from 10 min to 26:30 was 176 BPM, which is significantly higher than the 166-168 BPM that I'd been using as my LTHR. Also, after this best-effort run, Garmin watch (plus HR strap) auto detected my LTHR to be 166 BPM. Which number would you suggest that should I rely on as my LTHR? Would really appreciate any help on this. Thanks!

[@johndavies7626]

The 166bpm is accurate, for 5k or even 10k you can run nearly the whole race on or above your LT. That pace is for 45mins to an hour, maybe and hour 15.

[@DeanPattrick]

Great video, but I just like running. Moving to SwimRun last summer and trail running this winter has motivated me more than trying to run faster. Dean aged 53 😉😎

[@Nico-bp8od]

My watch has the heart rate zones after I complete my run so would I be able to do it based of that since it is consistently tracking my heart rate and pace too

[@scott_strool]

Can I use the ftp that was calculated by my watch?

[@philippeorphanides9596]

Zone 1 Slower than 129% of FTP (78%) Zone 2 114% to 129% of FTP (78-88%) Zone 3 106% to 113% of FTP (88-94%) Zone 4 99% to 105% of FTP (95-101%) Zone 5a 97% to 100% of FTP (100-103%) Zone 5b 90% to 96% of FTP (104-111%) Zone 5c Faster than 90% of FTP (111%)

[@markthrelfall3577]

Thanks, yeah they come in at @4:40 for others watching this :)

[@matteocomin6858]

Thanks

[@davidburnett4147]

Hey guys great vid. Quick question as I have noticed you are using Joe Friels 30min test there. In his latest training bible he talks about using the first ten mins as an RPE build (to rpe7) then recover for 2mins at low RPE before hitting the 20mins hard. I have noticed this is completely different to his previous blogs about making the full 30 a race (same as you describe here) any thoughts on the change at all? Did you guys spot this? My friend and I always disagree on the right way! I agree with you and JFs former opinion

[@Piterrek92]

So if my LTHR is 170, then my zone 2 should be between 144 and 151? Seems like high zone 3

[@markthrelfall3577]

As I have mentioned in a previous comment. These are the standard zones used by the likes of Training Peaks. They’re very commonly used. Personally my threshold heart rate is the same as yours, and I comfortably run at zone 2 pace around 145-150. I’ve used this for many years without issues. The basic 40-50-60-70 that you may see elsewhere is far too low in my opinion, and just a good guide for those starting out

[@Piterrek92]

@@markthrelfall3577 Wow, I'm gonna have to try it then, thanks for the info! :)

@@markthrelfall3577 Thanks for clarifying, I got really frustrated when everyone talked about Zone 2 training (which is

[@timyong6152]

I see what you did there, On 2:23

[@tjubix1525]

How can a 30 minute all out effort result in the same threshold heart rate as a 60 minute all out effort??

[@jimblack8104]

If you don’t trust it just do the 60minutes

[@pipscava]

3:59 This doesn't make sense to me. How would a 30 minute all-out effort test by yourself be actually in your 1h all-out effort pace? I say this 'cause I took the test by myself and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't even be able to sustain the pace for 1 or 2 more minutes, as I could almost taste the lactic acid by the end. What makes more sense to me (and what I saw in other sources) is that, for example, the lactate threshold heartrate is actually 95% of the last 20 min avg and then you calculate the zones based on that. Anyway, thanks for the video!

[@lifeonmars3180]

EXCELLENT

[@gtn]

Many thanks!

[@Allride_]

Has anyone any experience with the accuracy of Garmins lactate threshold test?

[@Exalix]

Yes! It’s very good. Setup your zones after %LT and you will actually be able to run in zone2

[@rozain4185]

Can i run threshold pace 3x in weekly training ..

[@tomhoey7761]

A wee bit confused. If my LTHR is 175 and calculating zones then running in Zone 2 would be 149-156bpm, but when running to HR zones Zone 2 would be 114-133? Which HR should I run to?

[@cadenfuchs4991]

Everybody has different hrs. Yours is probably different from the example he gave in the video.

[@tomhoey7761]

@@cadenfuchs4991 I understand everyone HR is different. The ones above are for me. The first is for the thresholds the Mark spoke about and the second is for traditional HR zone training. Which ones should I use?

[@markthrelfall3577]

Honestly that sounds about right from experience. For instance my threshold heart rate is around 170 currently. I feel comfortable running my normal zone 2 pace of 4:30-5min/km at 144-152bpm.

[@tomhoey7761]

@@markthrelfall3577 Thanks Mark. So when completing a Zone 2 run should I run at a HR 114-133 or 149-156?

[@markthrelfall3577]

@@tomhoey7761 it is hard to say without knowing you, but 114 sounds incredibly low. My heart rate is likely around that when I’m walking. If you would like to try these new zones feel free. As I’ve said, they’re commonly used, so they should work and be fine. But you’ve also got to listen to your body. If 149 on a steady 30-60min run feels too high, then drop it back down

[@jackdebokx4566]

Threshold Pace is actually a bit useless if you live/run in an undulating location. Much better to run to critical power, and although power meters are still not 100% accurate and use logarithms to calculate power, it gives a much more objective threshold. Having a threshold pace set on a flat course or a controlled environment doesn't translate well into running on a more demanding course. Power however is absolute and not impacted by any of this. I use a Stryd power meter and feel this gives more useful feedback to set up your runs and threshold.

[@deanb61]

I sort of get this, and I can see how for a top athlete like say Ali Brownlee then it might apply. But for the average man in the street? I find that my pace is my pace. I took up triathlon a couple of years ago at age 57, I'm fairly fit, but more strong than cardio fitness. So I've done a few Sprints, generally about 1:45. I've done one Olympic 3:30, and I've done 3 half distance events...7 hours. June 20th I will do my first ever full iron distance (The Lakesman), so I'm expecting 14 hours. As I say, as a 'normal man in the street' my pace is my pace.

[@DeanPattrick]

I'm in the same camp as you.

[@cisk0skid]

During a 10k race I’m at the high end of zone 5 for 95% of the time. My pace is maintainable with some in reserve. What does this tell me. Thnx.

[@RichRich1955]

How many hundreds of times do we look at the hrm per hour?

[@Senseigainz]

Does it have to be outside or cN you do it on a treadmill?

[@stug45]

Will this work for power to get my threshold power?

[@eoincasey5461]

Can you use the HR/pace data from a recent 5km race/time trial result?

[@markthrelfall3577]

If that is all you currently have then it’s a good starting point. As I mention in the video, if it’s a race with others then you could be pushed by that. Better if it’s individual. However, it’s a good starting point for sure

[@eoincasey5461]

@@markthrelfall3577 Thanks

[@knatheer]

Title says "Find Race Pace"... Toward the end he says go to online calculator! At least please give link to onw

[@GGori_99]

Im living in a hilly area.. can i do this ???

[@goodyeoman4534]

Running for an hour at threshold pace seems way too high? If you're unable to clear lactate, you should only be able to run for about 20-40 mins, surely?

[@luisfer14240]

👍🏻

[@QuieroNadarConNarwhl]

Are your heart rate zones and threshold heart rate the same between running and cycling? I struggle so much to get my HR up to the same level on the bike as on a run

[@markthrelfall3577]

There is normally a slight difference in the zones. Make sure you set them specifically for each

[@nivfroman4598]

...and so on and so forth... Mark you surely like to say that :)

[@markthrelfall3577]

Haha it saves a lot of waffle 😂

[@davidpatrick79]

Confused. Run for 20/30'minutes to find out how fast you can run for an hour? Where does it tell you how to calculate your threshold pace from your pace in those 20 minutes?

[@voodoochile80]

At 3:40 You run 30 minutes You take the average pace and hr of the last 20 minutes

[@barefootbeachrunner9498]

Still a bit confusing My 5k pace is around 4:40 per km 10k is about 5:00 per km 1/2 marathon is 5:25 per km and marathon is 5:40 pace Does this mean that as my distance increases my threshold decreases?

[@markthrelfall3577]

No, that’s your race pace. Not your threshold. But threshold will allow you to work out race pace...if that makes sense. You will have one threshold, but obviously race pace is going to slow the longer you go

[@barefootbeachrunner9498]

@@markthrelfall3577 It sounds like my threshold pace might be close to my 10k race pace or maybe in between 5 k and 10 k pace Cheers 👍🙂 Im just exploring ways to improve on this at the moment Im alternating between low heart rate running and intervals

[@Oldmaite]

Threshold is the pace you can hold for an hr, so looking at your times yours be close to your 10k pace

[@Digitall3]

@@barefootbeachrunner9498 That's wrong. It should be between your 10K and Half-Marathon Pace, should be able to sustain it for about 50-60 mins. EDIT: Never mind, if you are running 50min 10k's then yeah, that's about right. Was assuming you were quite a bit faster than that.

[@barefootbeachrunner9498]

@@Digitall3 No im pretty slow mate My 10 k pb is about 47 mins But im 55 years old so im okay with that 👍

[@jamesimtawohl9458]

I want to try this but an all out 30 minute effort sounds pretty painful

[@flynnifyable]

If I tried to do 3x5k my body would try to kill itself, too. I'm still working up to 1x5k and what you described sounds just insane!

[@jamesimtawohl9458]

@@onnn-ue3bn sounds like you could have maybe pushed your body a bit to far, and 3 times 5k is pretty high volume for an interval session. try and be careful is the best advice i can give you

[@matheuspontes9046]

😍😍😍

[@hikerJohn]

This does not make sense to me . . . no one can do "all out" for 30 minutes.

[@joeh6115]

Coming like a bbc reporter

[@tlanthony82]

The simple answer is to just run.

[@hakimpanandigan7924]

Da h are u talking about

[@swaggermcyoloftw]

Extremly inaccurate test! For me thats about 9K pace then and there is absolutely no way i can hold this hr or pace for almost double the time. Halfmarathon pace -5s/km is pretty accurate though.

[@limitless773]

1st

[@hotzeplotz83]

I had to watch this video 3-4 times before I "got" it. I'd like to be kind here, but it's just so much blabla and tha language you're using with the distraciting videos and music in between. It doesn't help to get something across. Is it just me? Sorry then ignore it.

[@WildlikeDestination]

It's a popular topic.

[@Anarchist007]

You talked a lot for explaining actually nothing... smh