How to get WIDE stereo tracks - Into The Lair

Dave shows you some simple techniques to achieve W I D E stereo tracks in the 117th Into The Lair.
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[@floorboardscratches7313]

people come up to me; "dave...?" i go "yeah?" i don't know why i found that funny but i did

[@ANPHKI]

These vids are some truly some comedic gold, haha. This could very well be a well written Adult Swim sketch. But the fact that it is not, makes it even better. Keep it going Mr. Pensado!

[@Fwuzeem]

All I got from this was that I need Dr. MS.

[@TheWavys]

Pensado!!!! You are a shining light!!! We are all so lucky to be able to learn from you! (:

[@SharonRachman]

I watched one of your videos where you use Haas effect (delay) to make it wider and get rid of the center. Well, I really want to thank you, Dave that you take your time to make these videos because there are SUPER HELPFUL, SUPER SIMPLE AND SUPER TO THE POINT! I was tweaking and tweaking, how the hell do they do this wide effect thing? I kinda had idea that it must be some delay on one of the speakers so my ears will differ that it is sort of doubled. But then I got stuck and my good mood was gone. But then you tweaked my smile right back to the place. THANK YOU SUPERMAN::::::::))))))) maybe you need some coffee girl in your office?

[@WillyJunior]

can we have '20 ways to find sexy women or something like that online' for the next ITL please dave?

[@roleyruffles7913]

^ this man wants to get his plug in ^

[@rajkamaljangir3618]

Dave sir , always remembered as the greatest and the.......... can't find the word ❤

[@4dmind]

This is a great technique - I mean a really, really simple yet highly effective technique. But...be careful, because it can introduce phase problems in a mix. You may have to go back and work out phase issues on some tracks, but the technique itself is totally worth it. I don't know why I wasn't doing this sooner - I group everything already, but I always tried to apply expansion via frequency, which can be used to avoid the foundation bass, but does nothing to keep your overheads and cymbal wash neat.

[@DopeMusicEntTv]

I love the MS Techniques you show. I love putting the fabfilter into m/s mode cleaning the middle out hitting a short delay to spread the sound more then the izotope imager to get the same sound. Can't beat just using one plugin tho!

[@pepe7drum]

Lol that intro and outro are pure gold from Dave

[@Jupiter1423]

I only ever remember finding out about the drms plugin from watching this video. Interestingly enough ive never used it on a bus as dave did here but its hands down one of the best plugins ive ever gotten my hands on and one of the few that really offers something that just cannot be replicated. Easy to use and super powerful. Id just say though that its much better used to better place elements in the mix rather than to try and change an elements fundamental purpose in the mix.

[@3rdprson468]

Real genuine person, gotta love this guy.

[@erkicaplatz7212]

this is spread out soo wide even Paris Hilton is blushing!

[@freeecountryy]

+Erkica Platz Haha. There's a first time for everything I guess

[@lairdriver]

Amazing comment. You win.

[@JakeNolen]

Erkica Platz 🤣🤣🤣

[@Airic]

lmao

[@scottlebrun6782]

I'm in love

[@nicowilliams6718]

I just finish mixing an indie pop rock song and this would have help me so much. Thanks for the tip man. You're on of my go too engineers for tips and inspiration

[@nile1212]

I've been looking for something like this for so long!! You are the best!!!!

[@davidboone3457]

Love your videos. I have learned more from your videos than I did from some of the classes I have taken, thanks for taking the time.

[@archiebeatz]

Thanks for sharing this Dave.

[@ShallieDragon]

See, I've not done a whole lot of experimentation with mid/side processing before. I think it might be worth a look.

[@Kandrgame]

The difference is night and day. You are talented

[@buntiraina2214]

What a legend

[@SaintsofLA]

another tip for wide mixes is for people is to mix in mono -eq and compress everything to liking(no effects yet) and focus on giving everything its one spot in the spectrum where it shines through the most(examples not actual values: 0-100 kick, 100-250 low bass, 250-900 snare and toms, 900-1800 guitars and bass grit and effects, 1800-4500 vocals, 4500-8000 high register effects and cymbals etc) -bus everything and adjust the input to each bus track at -18 db and put a limiter at the end of each one(idk why it just feels like i have more room to work with when i do so and joey sturgis said too xD)(and even if you dont like hardcore music check him out, joey is an amazing engineer :P) -then once everything is sounding like a wide track flip back into stereo and be amazed

[@556m4]

I like to have more of the lower elements of the voice. 1800 as the lowest would be very thin IMO.

[@SaintsofLA]

the eq part, as stated, was an example, you cant give things a finite number and call it good, thats why you use ears

[@556m4]

Yeah but 1800 as the low end of a vocal would be ridiculous. There would be absolutely no presence whatsoever.

[@SaintsofLA]

and you dont get rid of everything but those frequencies, thats just where you would want them to be loudest and shine over the top of everything else in that region

[@556m4]

Link me to a mix you've done.

[@MrDonnyAir]

There are many plugs out there these days that support M-S processing; IK Multimedia/ T-Racks is one who's VST's support it - I would assume that Waves (perhaps the newer versions) likely does this as well, so you don't absolutely have to have the Dr. MS to achieve spatial enhancement ( although it does look to be a useful processor). And, there are DAW's that have their own M-S processing functions built-in, too; Samplitude Pro X is one which has a built-in M-S spatial enhancement on the Master Bus; along with AM-munition, their stock stereo/MS limiter, which allows you to control gain reduction on the Middle and the Sides independently. M-S ( and I'm referring here to post-processing and not the actual mic/recording technique) is one of those mix enhancements where a little can go a very long way... past the initial "wow" factor, you need to be aware of just what it's actually doing to your 2-Mix - primarily with phase coherency - along with how it might end up sounding on other systems, where spatial enhancement processing might be already built-in... that being said, M-S processing can be a great tool.. it just needs to be used with some knowledge and awareness. ;) FWIW.

[@VintiqueSound]

Nice demonstration, although I think a psycho-acoustic effect is most certainly going to affect the judgement between the plugin being on and bypassed. When it's turned on its quite a bit wider yes, but it's also just turning things up quite a lot. Not a true comparison, but a great demo nonetheless. Thanks Dave :)

[@Recospok]

Dave is the Past & Dave is the future! Love you!

[@benjiswafford1926]

You are the best Dave! I can't get enough of your videos!

[@MichealDarenify]

There's that guy Raz Klinghoffer , that has some really cool technics, he mixed on of my songs, so if you're looking for an engineer this is your guy

[@stevedangmusic]

what a great tip dave ... this is huge ... drastic difference

[@MusicJunkeyTV]

Had to replay the first few seconds a couple of times before continuing with the video :D Great and fun to watch ITL, Dave! Smooth as always! Much love

[@ManuelMelo]

just to get this clear , your videos are looking prettier , you're getting younger (its doing you some good, lol) ... the fundamentals are all there as usual , just love pensado's place !!!! Already knew this technique as you already explained it several times now... Can't get it exactly as good as you , but then again , i just started mixing , got a long way to go , but you help me so much . I'll say hello every time !!!!!

[@collectionofsensations]

Yesturday i bedroom "mastered" a acoustic song, one thing i did was removing some 1kHz because I thought it smoothed out the track abit, making it less nasal. Something i noticed back then was that I percived the mid as further back in the stereo field, or somehow lower in height then before. Or maybe abit attenuated in a way, and I percived that as a somewhat wider track. Now when it comes to depth perception, frequency wise lowering the midrange this way should in theory not move anything back in the stereo field, but still I percived something like that. Now when I saw you removing 1kHz to for widening the track it got me thinking. Is there any science behind this phenomenon? I am interested in psychoacoustics :-). Could the level differences of frequencies in theory affect the percived width of the stereo field? One of my theories is that I percived the width to be wider because I attenuated 2.7kHz to remove some harshness. From what I have read about surround sound, one difference from using the center speaker instead of the phantom center of the left and right is that the 2.5kHz area is percived as louder due to the incidence of the sound from the center speaker, compared to the L+R's effect on our HRTF. My theory is that by lowering the 2.7kHz area I percived the mid to be less present or upfront due to my hearing drawing that conclusion from its frequency analysis, being used to having a louder 2.5kHz frequency area when sounds incidence from straight in front of the listener.

[@x17099]

What might have happened is that you attenuated the mid (center) frequencies which would cause side (stereo) frequencies to sound more prevalent. The only psycho-acoustic phenomena that I can think of which would explain this are the "critical band" and "auditory masking" of a quieter group of frequencies by a louder group of frequencies at the same range. Since 1-5 kHz is where humans not only hear the loudest at (Fletcher-Munson curve), but also where humans are most perceptive to, it would affect your stereo image by quite a bit even at the slightest attenuation. So, in short; yes, the level differences of frequencies can affect the perceived width of the stereo field, but only if the mid (center) frequencies you are EQing are masking the other frequencies that are wider in the stereo field. Hope that helped.

[@collectionofsensations]

Thank you for your answer. I do believe what you say could be the explanation to this phenomenon. Most sound sources with lot of energy in the 1-5kHz was panned center, so the dip in this area might have emphasized the sides more and center less.

[@afrobeats1]

you are the Best Dave Pensado Big Big Respect for all of things i learn from You nr 1 My Favorite Engineer

[@marklowentrout9293]

Dave does it again! Thanks, Senor Pensado!

[@MarcelZuzan]

Thank you so much for sharing! 😊 Best from Munich, Marcel

[@bhargavdobhal5327]

Thank You Mr Dave Pensado 🙌🙌Very Helpful Video🔥🔥🔥🔥.

[@rayshonjonse4873]

music bus! thanx for responding dave. too dope.

[@cocktaildenuitoff]

what about the mono compatibility of the final mix ?? is that a problem ?

[@MelomanTheNerd]

"... The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand, or so I have read !! " David St. Hubbins (Rock Savior)

[@micahbrill]

Really awesome video Dave. Thanks!

[@sooesossstudiotutorialsses6240]

Did get it... was it the plugin DR. MS that made it wide

[@reecehayden5993]

thanks so much for all the videos

[@BoilingJD]

So what exactly did he do there?! Was it a m/s compressor or something ?!

[@vPlanB]

Its an m/s EQ im pretty sure, which he just gained the side

[@scottlebrun6782]

Spreading frequencies in the mix from what I could see.

[@newtheory7558]

So what exactly is the DrMs plug in doing? Anyone know? I know it widens the sound but how is it getting that effect?

[@davdcl499]

Talk about coincidence. I was Googling and YouTubing the Hell out of this same topic last night for a mix. Now I get the good stuff.

[@chrispallutto5655]

Thanks Dave! I usually like me some Brainworx Control for m/s stuff, but I'll have to check out Dr MS. You are the man!

[@Voyevoda911]

Didn't really explain anything at all.

[@joeporter107]

Exactly read and practice put in the time that's the key

[@simpleguitarchords4030]

look at the plugin, read what the knobs are doing

[@912LilSyk]

I love your videos,man.. I've watched your stuff for a long time now. I'd love to talk mixing with you,one on one. Maybe one day,Dave.

[@noizkelley317]

Hey Dave, what's your take on analog summing? Is there a summing box that you prefer?

[@samyoe]

is the width parameter just auto panning?

[@Prakash1234ization]

Love you Dave uncle thank you so much

[@SOKRVT]

Such a legend!

[@marywhore1]

Dang that song is pumpin!

[@chrism3931]

It sound great .....but could you explain the parameters and settings and how to use. Whats focus whats is field. Not just select a preset and say "oh this is so greaT".... PLEASE

[@ento1412]

02:36 what is this plugin? Logic native vst?

[@cetanamusic2088]

Dave, the question i have is, i listened to this video in mono and stereo on my monitors, and in mono the wide elements seem to dissapear, and i want to know if that ok, or how to find a correct mono/stereo balance.

[@marksantos2837]

From my knowledge this seems pretty okay & not a big deal cause what you’re aiming for when going back & forth from mono/stereo is that your instruments stay the same level wise. Stereo should only give you the width of the track without changing anything else. Hope this helps you out even though this comment is 5 years old...

[@DjNeonAcid]

In EDM or House, how do I know what needs to sit wide and what needs to be narrow?

[@ellz6863]

This was very helpful, thanks so much.

[@EdwinDekker71]

How does it hold up in mono?

[@H4NDCRAFTED]

Bx digital make good m/s plugs, but there are others not made so well that sound bad when you colapse to mono, they certainly aren't all equal.

[@EPICPACKOPENINGSXD]

You shouldnt collapse to mono. Just mute the side.

[@TLMuse]

He wasn't saying he wanted to collapse his mix to mono. He is concerned about how his mix will sound when someone happens to hear it in mono, e.g., on the radio or in a store. I believe the DrMS plug-in is designed so that even a widened mix will still sound acceptable if collapsed to mono.

[@SkyAvila983]

Nice - thanks for the tip Dave!

[@Lerian_Esencia]

You are great ....RESPECT!!!

[@556m4]

I would LOVE to hear you mix a Hardstyle song. It's one of the most technically challenging for bass frequencies.

[@jsoul1978]

Oh my goodness! I just had an eargasm! I have to start using m/s processing....

[@Richard_P_James]

Nice demo! Huge monitor too :-)

[@jxor448]

0:18 is that a confession? using those 'find sexy woman' sites! haha Dave, good one.

[@zandewilson]

"Next time you find me on the street, just say hello"

[@AlessiaandFamily]

What the song name ?

[@petefaders]

Pop filler dog crap number 293846739

[@izvarzone]

DrUde - mid/sidestorm.

[@newguy6935]

The question that is always in my mind is not how to make the mix wide as much as how wide should the mix be made and how mono compatible it should be made. This is always the issue I wrestle with.

[@omusic777]

Where can I find this song?

[@AndresHernandez-eh7wr]

This is amazing, i would love to know the name of the song for reference mixing!

[@ceejaybizzle]

April Kry - Fireflies

[@mentorlatifi6221]

Great tutorial !

[@aarona.dubzperson8245]

MASTER ENGINEER!!! THANKS DAVE!!!

[@jstnbieber853]

Where can I find this song

[@matrixate]

How much phasing can one get away with by using this MS technique?

[@frostmutant4882]

exactly what I'm thinking. This sounded like brutally awesome, crazy. I sopped using wideners after I started to feel they just screwed up phases in everything. Never tried dr. MS though, this video makes me want to give it a shot :P I'd guess it depends on the mix too, like maybe if it has better mono compatibility or something these tools can perform better and therefore get wider mixes without everything falling apart and turning into a phasey poop..

[@matrixate]

Frost Mutant This video is NOT telling you that you have to monitor the phasing. You're correct to say the phasing can mess up the mix...YES it will if you apply too much. If this music is for the club, you don't want much, if it's for podcasts where it will be listened to on headphones, then yes, use more as an effect only. I got an answer from a mastering engineer about my question. He said to use either Flux, which is free, and keep the phasing in the positive. Another plugin is or Blue Cat's stereo analyzer, which is much more powerful for analyzing both sides independently. If you use that plugin, make sure that the stereo graph is not flat and bows up in the middle.. I would suggest to use them together and practice listening and seeing how the MS is mixed to create the correct balance. Yet another tool is Melda's MMultiAnalyzer which which has four different view modes; one of which is the Loudenss tab. Us that to get the oscilloscope view if you can separate the Mid and Sides into two tracks, then use the plugin to view both. A good free plugin to separate Mid and Side is A1 Stereo Control. Run two tracks, each with an instance of A1, and you can EQ the sides just as this plugin can. Actually, the A1 plugin is all you need and with Flux, you can see the stereo image with its VectorScope so you don't screw up the phasing and you can forget everything else. Alternative plugins that can do this and better are FabFilter's ProQ2, Brainwords bx_digital v2,

[@frostmutant4882]

Wow thanks man for the tips! Gonna check this stuff out :}

[@ENONBEATS]

Where can I get that plug in?

[@Thrilla1981]

Thanks Dave!!!

[@claudius3124]

Wise is better than wide ! thanks Dave !

[@stellarshores8565]

DAVE YOU ARE THE COOLEST MY DOOD!!!!

[@amaanali8069]

thanks dave you are good

[@kristoffergorne6219]

Anyone know the name of the song?

[@synthoelectro]

so you can use MID/SIDE to do it, very cool.

[@olddogandpanthers]

"next time you see me on the street just say HELLO because now you KNOW how to made you track fat and wide so you don't need that INFO" man that's some bar right here damn...

[@ariush_music]

i bet you have more tips to share with us , right ?

[@ceejaybizzle]

Not gonna lie...nabbed the preset and used it on a mix today. A little tweaking and it was just the ticket for my mix!

[@ceejaybizzle]

BTW...thanks Dave!

[@mb_lane]

Love it! Thanks man!

[@SLAMSTERDAMN]

Well, there IS a matter of being THE 'Dave Pensonado'; there'll never be a plugin for exactly THAT! 👍

[@bahanijeannot3572]

Dave, your a big Fan of KRK Rokit. Why

[@GoreMelian]

Amazing!! thanks!!

[@kandels3195]

So how do i do thi without DR ms ?

[@JeromeTrumanClubb]

so good. thanks

[@HSSLNG]

Twenty ways to find sexy women online, stop killing me, Dave. Way too funny

[@OldSchoolVisions]

thats awesome!

[@mikepetroff4240]

I can hear the 1kHz suck out that you EQ's into the instrumentation. Clarity was partially lost as could be expected. Would be interesting to hear it without it.

[@anthonym7272]

I love Dave's reaction. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pGimYYCJgc18nLMm20s It's not the first time he's reacted to something, you can tell he is a fan of making good music. Thanks for helping us get better Dave!!

[@LosFicosMusic]

FIRE!

[@regmonmusic]

Wow, excellent! :-)

[@MichaelSeanHarrell]

Hello Dave.

[@h.j.w2783]

3:32 "thanks for hanging with me, we had some fun" he says moments before taking his own life. This dude needs to cheer up.

[@Techdrome]

Hahaha the last plugin blew me away

[@andrewjoseffcovers]

Awesome Tip! :)

[@jeniffererhard2676]

Love this vid... If you guys are getting into mix and looking for a cool mix engineer listen to Raz Klinghoffer's