How to Grind Generals Plus Some Other Important General Information - Hoi4 NSB

This video is kind of a 5 for 1 special. I go over how to send the most volunteers possible, including planes. Which generals you should grind for what reason. The best method of grinding general traits. How to determine if you will grind cavalry leader, panzer leader, infantry leader or none. Where are some of the other goods places to grind generals.
Twitch.tv/71Cloak
0:00 Sending Volunteers
2:30 Which Generals to Grind and Where
4:00 Why you Need Cavalry Leader
6:00 Best Way to Grind Test
8:40 Determining which traits you will grind based on Division
10:52 Defensive Field Marshal/General
12:20 Aggressive Assaulter is not important on Tanks
13:00 Where else you can grind

[@emrecanarduc4378]

You just know a tutorial is really serious if he uses excel spreadsheet

[@kellymcbright5456]

An addition: for panzer leaders it useful to be panzer leader + cavalry leader + infantry leader, since they usually command divisions of mixed tanks and mobile infantry. cavalry and infantry both apply to the mobile inf. But you usually do not reach the necessary inf + cav quota once you mix the divisions. Just it is useful to have them command a cavalry army in the beginning. They will collect both traits then, since cav counts as cav and as infantry, too, and it is 100 percent of the two of them, then. I use to send my tank army general to Spain and/or China before the WW. And try to have them collect cav+ inf + hill fighter + forest ranger + trickster. They can get the "combined arms" trait, the "infantry leader", "provisional bridges" + "adaptable" trait. They will later earn the panzer leader as soon as they start their tank divisions later. And then have the most powerful traits. Defensive Infantry generals - 90 percent - should collect "infantry leader" and "trickster" since that boosts their defensive and fortification skills.

[@FLUX.2226]

Really wish they'd remove the "more traits = slower grind" mechanic. It screws over people who don't know about it without them even noticing it, and it gets exploited into irrelevancy by people who do know about it.

[@haukionkannel]

If it would be automatic... they would have to do the development slower to maintain the balance. Aka this grinding breaks the game in a way that was not supposed to happen. But people have a tendency of finding loopholes and exploits. But yeah, it most likely would make better to make gaining traits slower and because AI does not grind on purpose, also make AI better compered to what sneaky humans can do! It would make generals worse than they can be by using current system. But as I said, better balanced.

[@unclemestor]

Really appreciate you showing the numbers of xp gain. Handy tips!

[@Aiphiae]

Thanks so much for making this. Sincerely appreciated!

[@urtwietii]

Awesome stuff thanks man!

[@Treklosopher]

Good stuff. Thanks!

[@uniedits5459]

Your channel is the best, you bring a lot of new stuff. I’m always learning this game, props dude

[@mohammadrezadaneshvaramoli9310]

keep going you rock!

[@NotXecutioner]

great video, thanks.

[@tutugry3105]

very interesting. the part about cavalry leader is actually mind blowing. btw should i go for cavalry leader when im doing mobile warfare with an tank div that is 70% tank and 30% mech ?

[@71Cloak]

If you have the opportunity its a little more stats.

[@murcusblue4212]

Nice work, thank you. Waiting for the navy guide.

[@bruhmammasnn7604]

Heavy cruiser 3 with Max out light battery. And one medium gun. Engine 3. armor 1. fire control 0 or if you want to 1 - 3

[@71Cloak]

Remove the armour. It does nothing against HA and it slows you down and increaeses the cost.

[@user-tr2li3vu6u]

4 carriers with max deck space Planes with torpedo + best engine + max air attack Heavy cruisers with best AA and maximum light battery Roach DD with max engine and 1 depth charge (capital*5 is how many you need ideally)

[@timhand3380]

I like picking supply& logistics+50% chance of upgrade spirit. By barb, the 15-20% less supply used is pretty useful and then against china/Japan.

[@gothia1715]

Stacked with Logistics Wizard and Companies this goes nuts.

[@gothia1715]

One thing thats quite annoying when grinding in Spain is that the AI always jumps in on my attacks and blocks the combat width for my units if i would cancel and restart the attack. They also push the enemie from good tiles to grind on like the few forests in Spain after my attacks weakened them.

[@FreeMan4096]

thanks for spreading education

[@eli8922]

Grinding in China is op with this method you can get like 14 divisions in there so if you put like 4 or 3 generals and 1 field Marshall you can grind a bunch of terrian traits

[@colonelreb2688]

Could you do a video on naval combat? What I mean specifically is let’s say you have a surface fleet of the meta cruisers and destroyers, or a small but quality fleet with battleships cruisers a carrier or whatever. And you want to convoy raid and not encounter 200 ships in a sea zone? How do you avoid that? How do you set that competent fleet of say 50 ships to only engage battles they can win? What I notice when I play Germany and go for a navy I usually end up with around 60 very well built ships in one fleet I put them on low risk but they still battle the royal navy

[@FlyWire2]

That is set by the 'When to engage' setting regarding risk. The issue is that, if you send the fleet to patrol or convoy raid, they might get spotted and atacked by the UK murderstack. That is why Subs are meta to get nav supremacy, they cannot be spotted by the murderstack naval nations start with.

[@alfalfabillenjoyer4878]

71Cloak teaches us how to grind men

[@c-risp8387]

Good video. Wondering when it says cavalry leader > 40%, is that of the attacking for or the defending force?

[@71Cloak]

units in the army under the general. Which units are in combat does not matter.

[@MichaelGBracken]

Hey great work sir, just a few questions I am sure many have. How did you balance the xp gain against hills and trickster? How do you overcome the non-experience gain when switching generals? In my example, I have all volunteer divisions as cavalry, with Max as the new general, defensive order under field marshal with frontline and attack orders and I follow your instructions but get 0 Cavalry/Infantry/Organizer Experience. I have even tried clearing orders, making Max a general of all but one divisions outside the army first, giving him his defensive order, THEN assigning him to the army taking in the remaining division, then re-assigning the frontline and attack orders. 0 xp.

[@Fran-yk6jo]

dont assign defensive order, if you increase the limit of division one general can have you also decrease the amount of XP they get

[@ratchet2700000]

Panzer expert applies 10% defence to the whole division whereas comb. arms applies 15% to the mot/mech battalions. Because of how low the defence of a tank battalion is relative to a mech/mot, it's always better to take the 15% on the mot/mech compared to the 10% on the whole division. Although I only checked that with starting stats maybe full MW changes that.

[@71Cloak]

That's not at all how it works. Panzer expert and combined arms expert apply to the final divisions stats based on the composition of the division. Not to the individual battalions. Which one is better is dependent on the amount of each in the division.

[@kellymcbright5456]

@@71Cloak "apply to the final divisions stats based on the composition of the division. Not to the individual battalions". That is a question i have often had... Do you have evidence of this?

[@71Cloak]

@@kellymcbright5456 yes it applies in combat and that bonus is proportional to the amount of battalions are that type compared to total. I'm pretty sure I covered this in the video (may have been another one).

[@kellymcbright5456]

@@71Cloak So ist is not the dominant unit type alone, as you think? Thus, a panzer division composed of tank battalions and mobile infantry, would profit from panzer, cavalry and infantry traits as well.

[@71Cloak]

"So ist is not the dominant unit type alone, as you think?" What, where did I say this. It works exactly as I have said and exactly how i showed in the video.

[@jarvee9407]

What if I get leader with briliant and inflexible strategist? Is he worth grinding for divisional tank general or field marshal for tanks?

[@arthur2014]

Wait a minute. Do bonuses from Panzer Leader/Cav Leader apply to the division stats in proportion to the number of tanks or cav Or do stats *provided* by either battalion get increased by the bonus while other stats remain untouched? As in will support companies be affected by the bonuses? Are divisions with absolute units of tanks (with more stats/battalion) combined with cheap motorised affected (proportionally) more by Panzer Leader than cheap tank designs + firepower motorised? (This is a very odd scenario but it’s the extreme of a reasonable question)

[@71Cloak]

Proportional. In accordance with the composition numbers. Applied to the final stats of the division.

[@DesertCookie]

0:23 How do you create these 2-width divisions with only 5 army experience? The smallest template available to copy and modify requires upwards of 30 to get it to 2-width.

[@ekothesilent9456]

Create a new blank template from scratch. Go into the division designer and the option is near the top

[@dizitpix6268]

has this been changed at all since the video made? ive been grinding for nearl 6 months n havent even got 1% on cavalry leader (got about 16% armour) on the first general you grinded! using the default templates, 3 armour, 3 cav, 1 mot great vid btw! just wondering where i went wrong-

[@71Cloak]

No.

[@dizitpix6268]

@@71Cloak i see, i think i may have found my issue, turns out having all your armour on one tile, cavalry on one tile etc actually drastically decreases the amount of xp you gain- thats a rlly strange quirk tbh- (idk if this is true but it showed up when i was doin it-)

[@Omen09]

So, let's say you have 50/50 mech tanks, and you have the 15% bonus for mech does it mean you get 7,5% on the whole army or 15% for mech stats? That's how i thought it was from dev diary's, but i haven't actually tested it. But if it's applied in combat, and not in division stats then i believe the first option is actually correct, like you said.

[@71Cloak]

It's applied in combat as the bonuses from general stats.

[@28lobster28]

Albert >>> Sepp. Not only for cautious (lower sick/wounded chance) and to avoid politically connected (-10% XP) but also because Sepp was kind of a thug irl, definitely not a brilliant strategist. Feels weird for the game to give him credit for it. On the sick chance, it's heavily boosted if >75% of troops under the officer's command are in marsh or desert (maybe mtns as well). But you can easily keep a few troops on a fallback line somewhere across the globe and it negates the increased chance to get sick. So if you're Germany sending 4 tanks to Africa, add 2 extra cheap divs and keep them somewhere in good terrain (i.e. just sitting on Berlin is fine).

[@monkas1833]

Agree with your real life argument. I love to grind Kesselring and von Bock eventhough von Bock isn‘t that good. Kesselring was just a bad ass and I appreciate von Bock for his early success in the war and his opinion on Hitler and the Nazis

[@monkas1833]

Sometimes I want a meme a bit and just grind Paulus

[@28lobster28]

@@monkas1833 Paulus isn't so bad with cautious, but he starts at a low level so it takes a long time. The best grinding traits give attack and defense which makes Media Personality possibly the best (+1 A/D), Brilliant Strategist is good for aggressive assaulter but gives planning rather than defense (+1 A/P), War Hero and armor officer are also (+1 A/P). On the middling traits, cautious is (+1 D/L) and the reduced wounding chance/planning speed. Cav officer is (+1 A/L). Reckless is the only trait that decreases the chance to grind a pip type, it gives (+1 A/P, -1 D). Politically connected gives (+1 P/L) and the -10% XP gain making it possibly the worst trait to have.

[@t3ss33]

@@28lobster28 I think the meme he was hinting at was that Paulus was commander in Stalingrad. One should say though that he wasnt that bad of a general. He wanted to withdraw before Stalingrad had been encircled, he followed the order to fly into Stalingrad when it already had been encircled and he wanted to capitulate much earlier to save his men, In addition he defended one of his generals who wanted to try to break through ignoring a direct order by Hitler not to do so. His faith in Hitler saving his troops might have been too strong, but the struggle to defect Hitler and the obedience to your superior commander was strong in every officer.

[@Zdeno8525]

i have a question, if your field marshall gets infantry leader and you give him inf expert does this 'general' traits work when he is assigned as field marschall or no ?

[@71Cloak]

Yes, but you only get half of it.

[@jacobhammock3355]

Do your troops have to actually be in the combat for this to work? Because I'm trying it and the whole spanish line is already fighting and my xp gain isn't nearly as fast as yours, because my guys are stuck reinforcing i think.

[@colin5197]

yes

[@MrErdem95]

You actually need trickster for some combat tactics.

[@DARKREAPER8117]

Why do terrain traits not matter would they not matter wouldn't they make assaulting easier?

[@Bhoenix]

What buttons do you use to stop and start the attack? H+Right Click?

[@71Cloak]

H stops movements. Can't stop a battle that is less than 4 hours long though.

[@3chmidt]

do terrain traits and winter expert apply to field marshal?

[@71Cloak]

You get half the effect of terrain traits on Field Marshals.

[@alexapostol3441]

Can you help me a little? When i try to do the same thing as you, my general doesnt grind at all.Any tips?

[@71Cloak]

If you are doing exactly what I am doing then you will grind traits. You are letting the combat happen right?

[@alexapostol3441]

@@71Cloak yes, of course, but it doesnt even grind organiser, maybe is because i play with some mods?

[@alexapostol3441]

@@71Cloak now it works since i disabled the mods, great tutorial!

[@shortrandommemes7295]

Hey, i have a question. I did the same thing you did, 2 light tank divisions and 2 motorized divisions and i stopped every few days but after 2 months i only gained around 30 xp for panzer leader edit: i just tried it out on another tile and it worked

[@71Cloak]

The ai was probably in the battle which meant when you stopped and started your divisions where not fighting.

[@darkest_eclipse8271]

@@71Cloak I am confused by this. I tried in a similar situation, 7 divisions attacking from 3 different positions, and after a month I’ve only gotten half of the experience gain seen here. This was using day to day restarting of the battle. Is there a way to prevent this situation?

[@colin5197]

@@darkest_eclipse8271 Play multiplayer, it stated in the video there's no point in using this for single player. Probably for 2 reasons, its unnecessary and because the AI will interfere with your grinding.

[@darkest_eclipse8271]

@@colin5197 well most of this is outdated now that Ethiopia and Italy got overhauled in the BBA dlc. Now it’s extremely bad to stall the war and grind traits, the garrison damage is too great to ignore

[@colin5197]

@@darkest_eclipse8271 The garrison damage to Spain or to whatever country you are sending volunteers as?

[@CommanderTavos99]

How do u know that u get less xp when they have traits? Experiment, or is it written anywhere?

[@71Cloak]

Both. It was a patch note a one point in time. But you can also try it for yourself.

[@CommanderTavos99]

@@71Cloak that explains why so many people don't use the Generals I normally use and why I can't get panzer leader on Rommel in the Spanish Civil War ='D

[@andthe4010]

Sir, this is a SERIOUS suggestion: you REALLY should apply for a job at Paradox and use this channel as your resume. They need you. Badly. I guarantee you this is stuff that nobody currently at the company does or knows how to do. They just throw out numbers and hope they work, only adjusting things randomly when people complain enough. Your presence would certainly improve the game and you would be super valuable in developing hoi5.

[@sarahd4784]

Did an update change something? The gemerals are leveling extremely slow. I got 10 xp in a month.

[@71Cloak]

Nope. Nothing has changed. Don't attack where the ai is attacking. Your not going to get xp if your divisions are sitting in reserve waiting to reinforce.

[@herbertsmagon5777]

will a cavalry only division benefit from infantry expert?

[@71Cloak]

No. That only applies for grinding.

[@GoRideLP]

thousandth like

[@colin5197]

How do you fight for a month straight against 1 division and not take the province? Every time i send volunteers to spain they win the battles in just a couple days most of the time.

[@71Cloak]

Fight in places with the unplanned offensive debuff.

[@TheyCalledMeT]

i just did a ironman game with rommel .. after the entire civil war .. he wasn't even done with panzer leader ... is the deactivated AI such a major difference? (i know rommel has a stat already but that should just divide the exp gain by 2 not by 10)

[@71Cloak]

The ai does not change xp gain. It just makes it easier to demonstrate. That is exactly why we don't use generals that already have traits.

[@TheyCalledMeT]

@@71Cloak sure thing but afaik (plz correct me if i'm wrong) the exp is = collected xp / (1+number_of_finished_traits) so it should be taking twice as long to grind the traits not 10 times

[@71Cloak]

How many units did you send? Number of units also plays a role in xp generation.

[@TheyCalledMeT]

@@71Cloak good point, you sent more units for your sample (i would ask how on earth do you get enough divisons to send 7 divisons to the spanish civil war? but you've shown how ^^)

[@elemental3756]

Is it slower to grind multiple generals at once?

[@71Cloak]

Not really in the long run. You should be done around the same time if you do one at once or 2 at the same time during the Spanish civil war.

[@augustduplessis5862]

I would rather get combined arms expert bc motorised have more def than tanks in general Ps you don't necessarily want need cavalry leader for combined arms

[@71Cloak]

That's not how its calculated. It takes the divisions total stats not individual battalions and multiplies it by the composition. This means support companies get boosted by the bonuses as well.

[@71Cloak]

@UCr7CTX0kMRpXHbh81ksAiFA yeah but the bonuses don't apply to those directly. They apply in general.

[@augustduplessis5862]

@@71Cloak ok I thought that def bonus multiplied with the stats the battalions provided ty

[@marcel4941]

Ive tried this strategy with attacking and stop every day, my generals seem to gain less xp than continuesly attacking, what am i doing wrong? :D

[@71Cloak]

Is the ai attacking the same province as you. If they are your units aren't entering the battle immediately and are having to wait to reinforce. During that time you'll get basically no experience.

[@marcel4941]

@@71Cloak Thanks for your fast answer! Appreciate it

[@MrFarover]

This doesn't work anymore with so few divisions fighting. For me to get xp this fast, I need to fight with at least twice as many. Also, stopping and re-engaging now makes it much slower. I tested and fighting no-stop gives much more xp. Maybe you're using mods?

[@GenGariczek]

I don't know man, the names show correctly for me. There is no way they don't have a QA department, the game would be unplayable.

[@MixedMediaEnterprise]

I still don't understand why you don't grind all the way?

[@71Cloak]

Because it takes forever. I'm just showing you how to do it. I'm not actually going to continue playing this game. It would probably have taken an extra 30+ minutes to grind out all of the generals and none of that would have been included in the video because it just bloats it.

[@c1bas3k7]

@@71Cloak I think he is asking why not grind a trait to 100% immediately. To answer that, once you get an earned or a terrain trait (i believe it only applies for those) you will be getting xp for the other ones 25% slower. So geeting it to 99% and then grinding others to 99% is actually much much faster.

[@herbertsmagon5777]

If i get cavalry +10% defence bonus, will that increase my cavalry breaktrhough?

[@cassandrabarton8968]

No only defence

[@71Cloak]

Funny thing about that. It might depending on source. I'll make a video about it tomorrow.

[@herbertsmagon5777]

@@71Cloak yeah, when i pay for the trait, i watch an ongoing battle and see if the green bonuses go up, then i see the combat numbers change like just a little insteadsometimes... so its a bonus but i dont see where it goes maybe. its confusing.

[@AGWittmann]

Cant reproduce your success with this video with the Game Version 1.12.8 (January 2023) or im too stupid and old. Cant even reproduce your stopping and repeating attacks at the same province.

[@Nikarus2370]

Any advice for gaining XP on admirals?

[@71Cloak]

It's not possible in 99% of cases. You just have to fight.

[@eli8922]

@@71Cloak navel volunteers should be added

[@janhendrikspam154]

too bad u can't use tanks as volunteers in most mp games...

[@andthe4010]

9:54... Does this mean that the Infantry Expert and Cavalry Expert Military High Command advisors still stack? I know they used to for sure but I feel like I read somewhere that's no longer the case...

[@yato329]

I must be stupid because this isn't working at all

[@majin1395]

still relevant?

[@gaberobison680]

Wonderful guide! Still makes me sad seeing how shoddy the implementation was. Of course a general adept at combat in x terrain should defend better than a generic commander! Yet Paradox doesn’t represent this. Honestly PDX needs to stop being so conservative, they are afraid of things being “too broken” so instead they just do nothing and your WW2 game has a definitive meta that doesn’t at all reflect the nuances of actual combat. Rant over!

[@haukionkannel]

They do, but it means less than in attacking...

[@harveymarvey3348]

It's sad how the only viable way to earn most traits it to do gamey shit like this.

[@SonofAlbion]

Be nice if they reduced the XP requirements so we had more traits on all commanders. Be more flavourful

[@navy3745]

everyone is a cheeser these days. creating this unnatural "meta" and then complaining the ai is bad.