How to Grow a Chestnut Orchard: Part IV "Tree Protection & Orchard Layout"

PROTECT YOUR NUTS!! In Part IV of “Grow Your Own Chestnut Orchard”, John discusses different protection strategies for your young chestnut trees. Fencing, wire cages, plastic tree tubes are discussed. Following this, John describes the tree spacing that he has chosen for Lake Erie Chestnuts.

[@onevision23]

John I always learn so much from your videos. I know it takes time to put this together, but thank you.

[@ihus9950]

Morning John, Alot of growers of Chestnut Trees say PH Levels of 5.5 to 6.5, others 5.5 to 7.0 my soil tested at 7.0 sandy soil well draining. Zone 5A in WI, I hope this will work for me I just planted all of my Trees and so far doing well, with grow tubes. I purchased several other Brands of Trees that are supposed to be Cold Hardy, keeping my fingers crossed 🤞 Thanks for sharing your knowledge 👍🏻

[@johnsangl]

Best of luck - you might have some problems due to that pH, but you’ll never know unless you try!

[@ihus9950]

@@johnsangl Thanks John, I'm hoping it works out

[@chadszakacs1304]

Thanks John. Your videos are great. Because of you videos I always started with zip ties and 6 foot tubes so you’ve already saved me time and aggravation

[@johnsangl]

Nice! Hope the trees are doing well!

[@MySliceOfHeavenoutdoors]

Great info John, i appreciate it

[@neonomad6078]

John I’m up the road from you a ways, in Ashtabula OH. I have about 60 trees in, all from Empire. The plan started as deer snacks but has evolved into its own adventure. Greg actually told me a few years ago he didn’t like the tubes, so I have a dozen or so untubed, but they look like a completely different tree about half the size now. Anyway just stumbled into your channel and can’t believe the effort you put into your videos and your methods. Really appreciate the information you’re sharing, and now have a lot of catching up to do on your channel!

[@johnsangl]

If you’re on Facebook, it’d be interesting If you could post pictures of the trees you tubed versus the ones you did not. Post on my FB Page “Lake Erie Chestnuts”. What year did you start planting?

[@neonomad6078]

JohnSangl Ok no pics on my phone currently but I will take some... first trees planted in 2017, some now maybe 10’ tall, with non tubed trees 5’ tall. Maybe with more time some benefits of non tubed trees will appear, we’ll see.

[@brianhenry4342]

I also have started a chestnut orchard in ashtabula ohio. I planted 36 dunstan chestnut trees last fall. I lost 7 trees due to the oddly warm wet winter we had here. Temps seemed to hover around 40 degrees and the ground stayed saturated all winter long. I put wire fence around all the trees when i planted them and weed fabric. I ended up pulling the fences this summer and the weed fabric and just put mulch around the trees to hold moisture in. Little concerned about the deer going forward but i will keep a close eye on the trees and readjust as needed.

[@cherieiduke1723]

I'm your neighbor I'm in Geauga

[@SellingWhileSleeping]

Hi John, thanks for the video. My understanding is that for the Plantra tubes, the stakes are supposed to be inside the tube, not on the outside like you used them. Had the stake been inside, you wouldn’t have had the one tree break off. Thank you for the information!

[@johnsangl]

There is much debate on the inside/outside stake issue. If the stake is inside, the tree can grow through the gap of the tie of stake/tube and get choked off. The tube can still be lifted off the stake as well. It’s also more time-consuming threading the tie around and inside stake. The tube also takes up inner diameter space limiting how long the tree can stay inside the tube. For all these reasons, I chose to put the stake in the outside. I’ve only lost a couple trees yearly and I knew that would happen because of our high deer density. Thanks for watching and commenting - there is definitely no one “right” way, just pros / cons of each.

[@cherieiduke1723]

I love your videos thanks so much. Any ideas on planting the chestnuts in established woods. I have a cottonwood maple acreage now. I have planted some oak a wall nut or 2. But I would love to plant these chestnuts in the woods to leave for future generations 1😊

[@johnsangl]

Chinese chestnuts will not be able to compete with the canopy of Oaks/maples/Ash/Beech/Hickory/etc. They don't grow tall enough. They also likely won't tolerate the wet soils that Cottonwood thrive in. You may get the occasional tree with enough American Genetics to compete some, but I wouldn't count on it. The GMO Chestnut will have all of the American Chestnut genetic code and will be able to compete successfully.

[@FruttetoFarms]

I started planting an orchard out this year and sprayed my chestnuts with Plantskydd. Once when i first planted in april/may, then again in August/September. Deer never touched them. Never. Graze all around them every single day. Just a suggestion. Love the videos.

[@johnsangl]

Great suggestion! Thanks!

[@stevegaines-vq3bd]

I only want 5-6 Chestnut trees this Sept, so i want to use tubes & fence them in Both.....I'm in a heavily traveled deer area & am currently building a tree house tree stand just below, to the west of the chestnut area, & slightly downhill from that is the fruit tree area....I may get 2-3 types of Chestnut trees,

[@fhuber7507]

Several places noted that their trees acted deat inside tubes. They took the tubes off and the trees leafed out in a week. This makes me want to go with fence or other method that lets in light.

[@johnsangl]

I've never seen that with my trees - if they look dead inside the tubes, they stayed dead.

[@normalguy556]

Good info. I have more problems with rabbits than anything else. White pines on my property take the brunt of most rubs and scrapes. I like using 4 ft metal fence. I clip off the bottom strip creating lots of metal spikes that dig into the dirt. I make a circle and encompass the tree leaving a 2ft gap between the tree and the fence. Its somewhat expensive up front but in my opinion well worth the investment as no trees are lost to animal damage.

[@johnsangl]

Lots of work up-front, but very effective!! What spacing on your wire fencing(how big are the gaps)?

[@ChipsOutdoorChannel]

I probably should have asked my earlier question about how long you tube in this video. At any rate, this was great information! I enjoyed the watch!

[@johnsangl]

Glad to hear it! No worries - I’m always happy to answer questions. I’m still asking people questions all the time.

[@ChipsOutdoorChannel]

@@johnsangl I thought of one more. I have the Miracle tubes like you. I just pruned a bunch of the limbs in the tubes and removed leaves. Do you do that on all of your tubes? That sounds like a crazy amount of work for you!

[@johnsangl]

Light 'em Up Outdoors I no longer prune the trees. I just keep the weeds out of the tubes. It’s not a lot of work!

[@ChipsOutdoorChannel]

Yeah, I lost a 5 or so to weeds in the first year I planted (last year). I'm hoping all of my plantings will soon grow out of the tubes where weeds are not as detrimental. I figured leaving a bunch of limbs in there would choke out the trees, but glad to hear that's not the case!

[@Qingeaton]

You are going to have one heck of an orchard in a few years. We ended up having to make individual cages around each tree to back the deer off from the leaves. They are a pain to weed around for sure. Still, the deer can't hurt the trees at all. My tubes keep getting wasp nests in them. Great fun for the weed whip man. Lost at least two pawpaw trees to deer this year. Our yard looks like a plant prision, with all the cages, yet they still find something to kill.

[@johnsangl]

If you ever have a chance to post pictures of your growing success, go to my page at Lake Erie chestnuts And post a few pictures. In Northwest Pennsylvania, I don’t have near the trouble with wasp nest inside my tree tubes as my brother does who lives in South Carolina.

[@timrit3817]

I’ve been enjoying the series. Do you think the tubes have helped the trees during this cold weather? And how many trees do you loose to deer rub each season?

[@johnsangl]

2 years ago I lost 3 trees to bucks rubbing on them. This year I got lucky & didn’t lose any! I don’t think the tubes do much in the winter except maybe protect the trunk from sun-scald.

[@kpdiver1703]

Hi John, Have you put any thought into a spray program for the future? I know that weevils can be a big problem for chestnuts. I have a small Dunstan Orchard and haven't had any issues yet, but my parents have a Chinese variety that the weevils hit hard. Almost every nut has a worm in it. Love your videos. I started growing Dunstan's in 2014. Not near your scale though.

[@johnsangl]

I’ve considered it, but other than cleaning up all nuts & bits quickly, I don’t have a solid plan in place. If I develop big problems, I’ll readdress.

[@theCodyReeder]

What do you think of this idea: Since my soil sucks and I do have deer (also cows) I'm thinking about planting the trees in what amounts to a 6 foot deep 4 foot by 4 foot raised bed (dirt pillar with wooden sides) that the animals cant get up onto. then as the trees grow I'll expand to an 8x8 then eventually fill in the space entirely with good soil. It is an expensive way to do it but I only plan to do a few trees, like a dozen or so.

[@johnsangl]

Chestnuts need lots of space bc they produce on their outer limbs. Anything closer than 15ft spacing will require thinning within a few years. I’d say build the elevated soil at 2ft height and about 10ft wide in rows - then use tree tubes to protect from animals.

[@kermitl.peterson4970]

Awesome information as always. In one of your earlier videos you talked about using a heater to keep your seedlings warm from below while you ran the lighting above. How long did you normally run it? Once again, thanks for the info.

[@johnsangl]

I run it the 18 hours while I have the lights on. Then I give them 6 hours of dark and cooler soils. Not sure if that’s the best way, but it’s how I do it.

[@kermitl.peterson4970]

@@johnsangl Ok, thanks.

[@leslieandrews6324]

Have you tried planting a couple food plots for deer away from your trees.

[@johnsangl]

I plant about 8 acres of food plots away from the trees. It doesn't prevent the occasional tree being rubbed though. The deer like the mowed orchard lanes for tender grasses/clover/etc and can't resist rubbing an occasional tree.

[@andrewg9379]

John, Do you clean out your tree tubes for the first couple of seasons on newly planted seedlings? Ive noticed that a few of mine are clogged up with leaves and branching, and the trees arent doing so well. Compare that to a few trees that are my best growers yet, and their tubes seem to have little clogging them up. Just wondering if you have an opinion or if you believe its just coincidence? Do you think the clogged tube is impeding vertical growth?

[@johnsangl]

I try to check each tube monthly during the growing season to clean out weeds. I also check in early Spring to clear out the leaves/etc before they start the growing season.

[@marklassig]

John any thoughts on using weed mats? Planning on using them on my planting this year.

[@johnsangl]

Mark Lassig - They would probably help. Especially so if you are in a dry climate. They would help hold moisture. Just depends on whether you want to spend your time & money on them. I find I can spend an infinite amount of time & money on different ideas

[@marklassig]

@@johnsangl thanks, since I am not plantng that many (about 25) I think I will go ahead an use them. One general question, how long after planting chestnut seeds indoors does it take before you see growth?

[@blakespower]

probably too late but I wonder if you could just plant corn all around the chestnuts so the deer would concentrate on that, dont even harvest the corn just let it stay after it matures

[@johnsangl]

I found that putting food around your trees only makes it worse. I had to put tubes, double-stake and wire cage around my trees in my food plot!

[@sheilamclaughlin963]

Use baling wire with the other ties

[@johnsangl]

Great suggestion!

[@timrit3817]

HI, Did you do any soil testing before you planted? Did you condition your soil to get the ph to below 6?

[@johnsangl]

I did test it - it was already around 6. The trees do just fine at that pH. I did no conditioning.

[@thearmy88ify]

Wont using tubes like that prevent the tree from growing as fast and sturdy? The same logic applies to seedlings and having them either outside in the wind or fanning them to make sure they are more resilient when planted in the ground. Wondering if there is a study between just fencing the individual trees without support vs with tube and other protection.

[@johnsangl]

There are plusses & minuses to both tubes & wire fence cages. The trees will def be more sturdy if in cages. The trees seem to become pretty sturdy quickly after they come out of the tube tops though.

[@sandych33ks1]

What kind of fertilizer do you use on these trees ? Is it better to buy trees that are 3 to 4 years old ? Thank you

[@johnsangl]

The younger the tree at transplant time, the better the tree will do. I prefer planting 1yr old bareroot trees or trees sprouted earlier that Spring. They will be MUCH bigger than those 4yr transplanted trees after 3 years in the ground.

[@GNOSHTV]

How is the years of the trees like 1 2 year but is to tall

[@timmiller2192]

I planted a few 2 year old Dunstam Chestnuts. The nursery guy suggested using a bag of mulch around each tree to curb weeds and retain moisture. Any ideas on this?

[@timmiller2192]

Also wanted to say isn’t it time to switch to Browns Shirt!!! 🤣

[@johnsangl]

It’s a lot of work, but will do the trick. I have limited time so I did not do that. You will likely see mildly improved growth if you do. I’ve been satisfied with my results thus far without mulching.

[@johnsangl]

Browns may kick some butt this year!

[@viatori5566]

I can't seem to find the rest of this Playlist. 😕 is it still available?

[@MajorMatatheTurtleNerd]

Just go to his channel and search for how to grow a chestnut orchard

[@viatori5566]

@@MajorMatatheTurtleNerd I did

[@bettervanilla1307]

love these tree tubes. but you have to mulch around your trees. that grass is thriving around your trees and its soaking up all the water. about 100ml diameter of mulch to kill out the grass.

[@johnsangl]

I'm happy with 18-20 foot trees at 7 years. As I've explained in numerous videos, my most limited resource is time. If the trees are doing well without mulch, I'll continue with my present plan. Also - chestnuts can die from vole root damage and mulch can promote their taking up residence next to my trees.

[@GNOSHTV]

60x60metrs?here in Hellas is 8x8 10x10 and I have 5x5 6x7 and this year I have farm with 6.5x6.5 chestnut trees

[@johnsangl]

Not sure I understand your comment correctly. Initially, my Orchard is at 30 FOOT(10m) x 30 FOOT, after 2 thinnings, it will be at 60 FOOT(20m) intervals. Another part of my Orchard is at 15ft(5m) intervals.