How To Guess Correctly In Fighting Games

Game theory calc I used: eqcalc.jounin....
Edited by Caste - / castehappy | Twitter: / castehappy
Don't understand the terminology? Start here: glossary.infil...
How To Guess Correctly In Fighting Games
How to Master Decision Making in Fighting Games
My goal is to grow a positive community with a focus at improving at fighting games If this is something that resonates with you - please consider following me on my social media links and subscribing:
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⭐⭐I also do replay review + coaching: metafy.gg/@dia...
#sf6 #FGFundamentals #Diaphone

[@Diaphone]

So yea, we kinda went a little ham on this one. Would love to talk waaay more about advanced applications of game theory (you actually can calculate a lot more accurately than we do in this video), so if you'd like to see that, let us know by like/share/subbing the video

[@soulmantis4627]

please make it!

[@ZaryasBestFriend]

I would love more in-depth videos like this. Love the game theory stuff.

[@daburiii]

I really want to learn more in depth fairly new to fg is really helpfull

[@BigProtein2]

The editing was *chef’s kiss*

[@Yin_Strider]

You know what's crazy Diaphone? That I've been thinking that the mental skills we develop over time by playing fighting games, like the pattern recognition and predicting other players behaviors...is something that I apply to regular everyday life. I find myself subconsciously using these skills even in my marriage. It pisses my wife the fuck off that I can predict her mood, body language and even what she will eventually do in certain situations or interactions. I was thinking about the correlation between these things and my skill developed over years of playing fighters. What do you think about that? 🤔

[@Flatbees]

Tying Evo Moment 37 and the Veritasium video about 37 together and then both into the topic of game theory is incredibly big-brained.

[@gwen9939]

truly 200iq segue

[@TurboPancake]

vsauce levels of connections

[@notnotricharmander]

Fighting games and game theory -> Evo moment #37 -> Veritasium randomess -> BACK into game theory? They'll remember you for this.

[@LordNarkham]

Now that's what I call rotating through your options

[@pimlalz]

As an engineer i really appreciate when people talk about this side of fighting game.

[@Zoomezz]

3:51 this bit makes me wonder how the cast of SF6 would react to Broly lariating someone across the stage into a triple level 3 lmao

[@dazedd-fi4yx]

So, Marisa level 3 .... ?

[@natman2939]

@@dazedd-fi4yxif it did 30% more damage

[@dazedd-fi4yx]

@@natman2939 oh ok

[@numa2k147]

It's basically Marisa's damage.

[@mattortiz5577]

I've played poker and other various competitive card games so my ears perked when I heard the term "Expected Value" (EV) talked in fighting game terms.

[@Jon_East]

Amazing editing in this one!

[@CurryMeniac]

2:36 That backdash transition

[@MSCDonkeyKong]

What me and my friend used to do when we played fighting games is we would always tell each other which options we were over-relying on and which habits we were building after we would exploit them, it did a good job of giving the two of us better situational awareness

[@Pusher_117]

One of the coolest videos ive seen on the topic ever. As a poker nerd the moment you brought up actual game theory and not 'sf6 theory' i was super excited. Definately give us more of this!

[@ShinLadFGC]

Ngl this is hands down your best video to date. Well done sir. Also shout outs to Caste

[@ryanfarrell2636]

This is probably one of the best pieces of fighting game educational content that exists. Very well done

[@wecrouch]

You are now one of my favorite SF6 youtubers, excellent video. Once a player can get past the immediate execution challenges your mental stack gets freed up enough to actively observe the opponent. Then you get to play with the psychology- the actual opponent, and the matches become 1000% more interesting.

[@jeffsantos93]

Editing and writing is on point! Felt like watching Core A Gaming.

[@ogredanhibiki]

I'm really hoping this video pops off, you clearly went above and beyond for it.

[@dazedd-fi4yx]

Melty Blood Type Lumina OST is actually another level of goated, i hear it outside of the FGC too.

[@henryzhang7504]

Hey Diaphone, just wanted to comment on how good your thumbnails and editing always are!

[@joeyrhubarb2558]

You have no idea how ive wanted someone to make this video for the longest time. Finally a have a video i can link to people when this topic comes up Diaphone always on the goat activity. The editing really made this into something way better than i could have ever done as well.

[@Lazergician]

Diaphone I'm gonna be real: this is the best video you've ever put out.

[@bryansutt7077]

Commenting to say this is my favorite video of yours so far. I hope it does very well for you! Also looking forward to the possible in-depth sequel.

[@Jorgec224]

I love the game theory concept. I always wanted to learn more about it in general and I appreciate the potential it has for fighting games

[@Chris_F]

Another banger from start to finish! This one is special

[@rArcadia]

Production on this vid look really good, would love to see more like this!

[@blagd]

Wow. This might be the most well put together content ive seen for the FGC. Nice work man

[@TroyWycliffe]

This is probably the most concise video I've seen about how to balance risk reward with game knowledge and pattern recognition. Very nice

[@TeamAlpar]

Honestly, this is such a good explanation of why I like fighting games. Sick video!

[@gamelord12]

Thank you for doing this video in only 10 minutes. A nuanced topic covered concisely with excellent editing!

[@acorteziii]

This is really interesting, especially the differences between games and how pros probably naturally develop a way to intuit it. I also think even if you aren't actually calculating it out, using it as a basic framework is useful. Good stuff

[@yndkk]

Hi Diaphone, I've never commented on you before but this is one of the best videos I've seen around fighting games. From analysis, to content, to editing, everything is spot on. I've even shared it with people outside of the FGC, superb job!!

[@xboxpenguin8705]

PLEASE make more videos like this, this was a fantstic insight into game theory applied to FGs

[@Cidelfal]

Great video, and I like the small feature about Granblue at the end 😉

[@taylorgwynn]

The example footage, from clean demonstrations that went into good detail, as well as the hype tournament sets showing how these things really do happen - extremely appreciated

[@backstabuuu]

I struggle really, really hard with the guessing part of fighting games. This helps a lot.

[@holdysnausages]

Personally I love videos like this. Game theory and game sense are so important. It really makes the gap big amongst intermediate and high level players. And with the internet being such a good tool. You need to be on your shit.

[@addhawk6140]

Never thought I'd use Game theory (something I'd use in my economics class) in a fighting game, but it definitely makes sense!

[@MrShinTensei]

Man you made one of the best fighting game videos I've ever seen. Wow

[@DjGaiden]

This is what I, and many intermediate players desperately need. A lot of times we autopilot to fuzzy guarding and trying to block on reaction for mix and Oki situations. But it really put a lot of these scenarios into perspective.

[@Acehan]

Let's go Diaphone!

[@dazedd-fi4yx]

oh oooh ooooOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH

[@logar2466]

I’d love more videos on stuff like Game Theory and other topics like this. Stuff like this levels up the community.

[@axellis8333]

I love these super technical looks at fighting game decision trees! This was a very fun video for me

[@jgeehk]

Easy one of your best videos, love this type of FG theorycrafting talk

[@veeng5619]

Fantastic video. We need more of these in depth topics on intermediate level stuff

[@MrRyuuTakeshi]

Love the editing. Great job.

[@Lexicon865]

Let'a go gambling! *opponent does tick throw* aw dangit! *opponent jumps in against your fireball* aw dangit! *opponent's internet went down and lost connection* aw dangit!

[@ggpt9641]

Have already shared and linked this elsewhere after seeing how serious, well-crafted, and thought out this is. It also makes more sense how Diaphone is so good at FGs after watching this. Guy knows how to teach.

[@gonvaku]

This is a great video with great edition, this type of videos are the best for the FGC, it helps new and intermediate players while sparking discussion. Props to you both

[@Toweletta]

I aspire to be able to edit videos like this one day. Thanks Diaphone and Caste for keeping scrubs like us entertained and educated!

[@bitterm3lon]

Whoever is making these graphics are doing an amazing job

[@pardboiled]

huh, this was really well done. one of my favorite videos from you. excellent analysis and editing.

[@Awenevis1]

Awesome, intuitive explanation of introductionary game theory. Thanks Diaphone!

[@nosaparks]

whoever edited this for you went crazy! Very good vid!

[@dumithegreat3892]

game knowledge is so underrated. too many people are needlessly complaining about EVERY SINGLE FUCKING CHARACTER, in Tekken 8 rn. if half of these people spent as much time studying other characters, as they do bitching about Feng, or Jin, or whatever, they’d likely find a new appreciation for both the game as a whole, but also those characters that they once complained about. turns out, every character in the game has fun aspects, and cheese, and character specific counter-play, etc, and through learning their move-sets, you’ll naturally spot the holes, and flaws in the characters design

[@nchJoJo]

another banger, as always. i never hesitate to share your stuff with the people i teach. also, your editor is killin it.

[@TechnoTurtle9974]

Genuinely one of the best videos made for SF 6 yet and fighting game strategy as a whole. Diaphone, you really cooked with this one

[@rcj2198]

Core-A-Gaming level of editing and content. Excellent job.

[@dragonman1579]

Gotta say amazing video. I normally just watch your guides, but the editing was great, and while I knew most of this, I learned a bit too.

[@thefgcsensei4482]

the editing is crazy on point here, Dia on his Core-A arc and I dig it

[@hostvarious]

10:36 damn CasteHappy went Super Saiyan! Y'all really did go all out on this one. Great cutting, great subject. Bravo 👏

[@Diaphone]

Thanks!

[@Zlei.]

Amazing video, loved the editing style. Was clear, precise, and made things a lot easier to follow.

[@MrMastermelo15]

This is actually such a perfect watch for me. One of the specific things I’m trying to work on right now is rotating my defensive and offensive options. Sometimes it feels like I’m dyslexic for a lack of better words, I can’t read the correct situation almost ever. That being said the new drive reversal wake up has help my characters tremendously, incorporating backdash when I think I should jump. Thanks for the video it’s nice to have a pro players input on the thought process on rotating wakeup options!!

[@alphachadus]

probably the best/most interesting fighting game video/topic ive ever seen in my time on the internet. I work with models like these semi-frequently (I am working on a physics and a math BS) and I've occasionally thought about these games in terms of predictive models like the calculator you used, but to actually see a real calculator applied with some ballpark approximated values is really something else. Fantastic idea.

[@M00N_MYST]

the editing went crazy on this one, loved the vid

[@isaacmeredith9421]

I’m working on this and knowing to stop always throwing a punch/ being patient. CPU lvl8 (I know people have controversial thoughts on this but I still do it mostly for learning spacing and corner cover) has taught me that throwing a move is always punishable whereas waiting and being able to play defensive is key

[@TaroTrashBin]

I think this video is an extremely comprehensive guide to the more analytical players. I don't entirely agree with the ending statement that this is the "correct way to approach" decision making, but it is a very good outline for it. Overall really good video. Probably one of the easiest to digest I've seen in a while.

[@TaroTrashBin]

I think if there is a followup, I would like to see how OS changes risk vs reward. See how covering multiple options is both a strength and weakness in both offense and defense, stuff like that

[@drewrankin2197]

Reminds me of a Core A Gaming video. Information dense, great editing and a joy to watch. Amazing vid!

[@tkZombie_]

Damn this was really well edited. Great job

[@TenshiArix]

This is a great video, I like the idea of exploring topics that will make you a better player but aren't really that obvious. I always struggle with these more abstract concepts, especially since I can't properly get a read on opponents in a FT2 unless they're super obvious.

[@Vaeran7]

This is a brilliant way to introduce the core of fighting games in a digestible way. The interplay of optimal behavior and predicting how your opponent may deviate from optimal behavior is an endlessly fascinating puzzle to solve. Would love to hear your thoughts on more advanced game theory in fighting games. Even if you don't run literal mathematical calculations in your head while playing, this way of thinking does an excellent job of describing what your intuition is doing and can help you maximize your advantage in general situations and when you get a specific read on your opponent.

[@orangereplyer]

The editing in this one is so slick!

[@how2l0seurself39]

You went nuts on this video. I really hope to see more of these type of videos, keep it up goat

[@Hooove]

This is such a high quality video. It was great, thanks for the info!

[@Dr0pSquad742]

this needs to be in the rending section ASAP. Well put together video man.

[@RglMrn]

Wow, amazing video. The commentary, pacing and editing were all s-tier.

[@alexandre2785]

The fx and sounds on this video are crazy, great work !!

[@Tony_Mellas]

This is a fantastic video, editing is super clear, fun to watch, and all the points and knowledge is super concise and easy to follow

[@rusdad1304]

This is cool. A great follow up would be about how you can use these kinds of mental calculations to develop your personal in-match head games against opponents. This is a whole aspect of the genre that players rarely get to know about if they can’t get out of bronze or low silver. But understanding this stuff makes watching competitive matches so much more enjoyable. Thank you for this video.

[@frshcooking2450]

amazing video, I really enjoyed how the information was presented. I've been feeling that need to really think about what my options are in my SF6 ranked games more from wanting to reach diamond w/ manon and this video really helped me visualize how I should approach deciding what's best.

[@Willedcub93442]

Whoooa, editing on this one was crazy. Love the more analytical content !

[@robertdallakyan2234]

Something interesting to also consider is the effect of conditioning, which was generally discussed but could be expanded.

[@user-uq9se1nx9q]

This kind of decision-making is exactly what Your Only Move Is Hustle reproduces. It is a turn-based fighting, and every turn is a matrix game like you describe!

[@GovernorSSBU]

Editing and structure of the explanantion on this are top-notch, thank you for this!

[@khdo12346]

The editing is n i c e for this one

[@co81385]

Great video! The "Expected Damage/Value" is a good way to look at this!

[@teasysneeze]

thanks for getting into the details about the "rock paper scissors" you kinda sound like a music teacher stressing the importance of learning the theory, not in a bad way

[@deadxobbit]

Interesting topic! Ultimately, it comes down to intuiting the risk-reward based on each opponents tendencies and conditioning you apply on them during the match. You can't be right all the time, so it's up to you to skew the risk-reward in your favor.

[@bulb9970]

Never expected to see real game theory applied to gaming but this analysis was actually great

[@javacloudz]

i've been grinding hard to get my Ky to celestial and i think having this in the back of my mind is really going to help. everything was very well said

[@JosueFCarrera]

Hi Diaphone, I just want to thank You for all your content, I have like 50hrs of SF6 and your videos have helped me a Lot, I learn a Lot about your actitude and approach to the Game, I am almost at platinum with Marisa and Ryu haha 🎉🎉

[@SoShiBias]

Wow a well-produced video with an editor. Nice work and I think the topic warrants it. Hire me to edit next time lol

[@LePlatypusBait]

Excellent vid dude, y'all cooked with this one.

[@BadmanOfBanterbury]

This was really interesting. I'd love to see you try to quantify other aspects of fighting games, the way you did here.

[@jgotchabeezy]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot as a player. When it comes to my main game BBTag I have more game understanding so defending is more so my character/player knowledge. But when I try to transfer risk reward on pressure and defense into say GBVsR. I feel like I’m always wrong or the 3 interactions of damage is negated by 1 opponent interaction. It does give me an analytical way to look at it. And hopefully I’m able to use this as a base to try and get better overall. Thanks for the video dude

[@platinopiano]

this is one of the best fighting game videos ever made

[@gaaalavant]

this is such a high quality video, wow. awesome editing! and really informative, thanks diaphone

[@jettmanas]

Good topic & examples. Solid visuals. Command grabs & grab super make it even trickier since you can't tech. I should remember to shimmy more after a knockdown. Nice vid.

[@ZachHenke]

Every time I’ve tried to set up a matrix game for situations like this the primary issue I’ve had is not being able to settle on the payoffs and strategies for each player. IMO this type of analysis is really hard because it’s a two player game. The person on offense is going to mix their strategy based on your EV just as much as you’re going to base your mixture on theirs. By definition, one of these mixed strategy Nash Equilibria are the points where each player is choosing the mixed strategy that minimizes the other player’s EV. The difficulty in this is that game theory would tell us that if our opponent is mixing incorrectly we should switch to a pure strategy. For example, say that the proper mix of strategies is for the defender to block half the time, back dash a fourth of the time, and to tech a fourth of the time. If they choose to block 3/4 of the time we should only choose throw. However, being able to discern if your opponent is using the correct mix is dependent on knowing what the correct mix actually is, and even then it is difficult to discern the actual mix of strategies that the opponent is using in a short set.

[@Zman7981]

Great video. I think beginners who find this video shouldn't try and overthink the numbers aspect of this but more or less look at this video and think of it as an introduction to what risk-reward is and how to understand thinking about risk-reward.

[@KusanagiMotoko100]

So you're saying I should go gambling to the casino, thank you Diaphone.

[@shinji2oo4]

Love this video! It's nice to have these types of concise videos explaining thought logics with practical examples

[@pkcoffee33]

Excellent video. Way more useful info in this 10 minutes than in most hour-long videos out there on similar subjects.