How to HIDE FDM Layer Lines

[@RondomGuy1]

"remember kids, the only difference between screwing around and science is writing it down" - mythbusters

[@iPaintSmallThings]

haha shout out the mythbusters

[@sXeAndriex]

I appreciate how much effort went in to making sure a variety of options were tested. I'd love to see a part two.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Thank you thank you! haha this took more effort than normal. I'll see what I can do to make that happen!

[@jurjengeleijn4237]

Love the detailed moving side by side comparison! you really put in the work

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I really appreciate it! :D

[@MrVelociraptor75]

If you like the textured spray and Tamiya/Greenstuff "uneven surface" look, you can print with a technique called "fuzzy skin". This adds a 'random noise' while printing the outer layers, leaving you with, you guessed it, fuzzy exteriors. Hiding the layer lines quite well, by varying the distance of the outer walls each layer. (it does take longer to print, but, that's still MUCH less post-processing for us) I've yet to try it (on 3d parts - I've used it on walls), but, there's a great powdered wood filler/putty called Agnew's Water based putty. It comes in a powdered form and is only mixed with water, so it's easier (as less smelly) to mix than something using Acetone I also feel like PLA is just a painful plastic to deal with. It's VERY dense, but has a very low melting point, so sanding is a pain (but I'm lazy, so that's part of it haha). ABS is much more annoying to print with, but, is far easier to post-process IMO, as it's softer (and Acetone is simple enough to use in this case - I use an old rice cooker to good effect) Lastly, I'm not printing guru but, I think you could tweak your printer to get MUCH better results - without replacing the nozzle size (although, that's easy too). From the looks of it, you have a decent amount of Z-wobble, which shows up as regular (tiny) shifts in layers, several layers apart (caused by the thread turning unevenly). This can be simple to fix (with cleaning and oiling the z-axis threaded rod), or sometimes needs more effort. It might also be worth calibrating the extruder, as I think that could cause similar artefacts, however they're regular enough I'm pretty sure it's Z wobble

[@iPaintSmallThings]

ooo... fuzzy skin looks like a fantastic option. Thanks for letting me know! It's been a while since I've printed with ABS-- so maybe it's time to give it a go again. Also, the z wobble may be from the cheap plastic table I'm printing on-- but I should oil and clean the whole thing again. I greatly appreciate all the tips! I'll make sure to come back to this when I'm testing.

[@colbylippincott7173]

Doing an outer texture like fuzzy skin plus chemical smoothing works quite well.

[@keisisqrl]

@@iPaintSmallThingstry ASA, it’s like ABS but nicer. Unfortunately it’s also more expensive.

[@cappedpluto7638]

You missed some of the popular cosplay methods. Like painting in resin or diluting wood filler and painting it on then sanding, or using automotive body putty

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'll try those! Thanks!

[@WoodMaster5000]

This is an absolutely awesome test! Thanks for the afford! Really loved those side-by-side comparisons!

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Thank you very much! I really appreciate it :D

[@Paradukes]

I've been experimenting with my 3D prints for a few weeks now (Using a 0.2mm nozzle, so the layer lines are far less severe) and what I've found to be effective is the ethyl acetate, applied vigorously with a cotton swab. It isn't strong enough to actually melt the print down entirely, but it softens the material to the point where just rubbing it hard enough with a wooden q-tip is enough to smooth down the lines significantly. I also have a small reciprocating sander and thin sanding sticks that I use to go over everything afterwards. It takes a fair bit of effort to completely remove the lines, but it can be done. A touch of EA followed by a little bit of sanding is generally fine to make it look more or less smooth.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Oh that's true. Rubbing after using Ethyl Acetate is a great idea!

[@Ironkovacs]

thanks for the vid! My experiences: you can print with less visible layerlines even with .6mm nozzles. for a .4mm nozzle you used for your demo, I recommend a .5mm line thickness with 3 walls. it increases the material cost on walls but makes them mor stable, so you can lower the structural infills to even ~5% the other hack is to use the wall order to print outer walls first, if you dont have overhangs. Milliput can be dissolved in IPA similar you did, and after curing it is better to sand

[@iPaintSmallThings]

No problem! Thanks for the tips! I'll have to play around with the slicer settings.

[@himedo1512]

Do you mean .05? You really shouldn't print larger than the size of your nozzle. Thats clog central.

[@Ironkovacs]

not layer height but line thickness, its totally diable to print thicker lines as your nozzle.

[@gcm3d]

Nice channel, thanks YT for recommending me this! For me, fresh out of the printer, I managed to get better aesthetics using simple things like obvious lower nozzle size, positioning the object better, lower speed, especially for top layers, and of course calibrating the printer, mostly the Z axis. A big visible improvement is when I change to Matte PLA. It is really good at hiding layer lines. Another thing for top surfaces is ironing. There are ironing tests around and the result is great. For objects where I can't iron the top surface, variable layer lines is quite an improvement. Orca slices has all of these, if bambu is not an option. I did a helmet once and what I did was basically one of your tests, with primer, sanding, spray painting. This took several days but I liked the result.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

That all seems like solid advice! I'll try lowering the speed and making sure everything is clean. Thank you!

[@jasonwmarsh]

I've watched multiple videos of cosplay people who use Bondo Glazing and Spot Putty mixed with acetone, for a milky consistency that seeps into layer lines when painted on, and self levels. Also wood filler.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'll give it a go!

[@chasecaleb]

Note that you may need to print with ABS for this technique - I'm just assuming based on the use of acetone.

[@ArtinKavousi]

2 suggestion for you :1 . tune your 3d print to print uniform and consistent layer even with thick layer line uniformity will give it very pleasing look or 2: use PVB material or polymaker smoothing filament that you can easily smoothen it

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Smoothing filament sounds really interesting. Thanks!

[@lazyman1011]

Came here to say this. It’s similar to ABS and acetone. Suggested filament would be Prusament with a 0.2 nozzle.

[@sierraecho884]

1. Increase resolution 2. Incorporate texture into your design like fuzzy skin and such 3. Melting with solvents 4. Coatings 5. Sanding 6. Combination of the methods you like. Personally I increase resolution and use PU varnish to build up some material. The excess material is being sanded away and then I use paint.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Thank you for all the ideas!

[@euansmith3699]

The heat gun sample falling over was a real slap-stick gem 😆

[@iPaintSmallThings]

lmao it was leaning more than the tower of pisa

[@joecamel2002]

what i do personally is spread on the gabagoo to blur the lines

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I have much to learn

[@joselltemes]

Hey, it's me again... Something else came to my mind... What if you brush a piece with resin, cure it and then prime it?

[@iPaintSmallThings]

That is a great idea! It's goin' on the list

[@TGAmir1]

Was just about to suggest the same thing. Would also love to see resin on a mini to see if that helps.

[@lanewaterman5359]

@@iPaintSmallThings I've seen people mix baby powder in the resin who say it works better than resin alone. I'm also curious if corn starch would work as well since it's less dangerous to breathe in.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

@@lanewaterman5359 Oh interesting. I wouldn't have thought of adding baby powder-- I wonder if that effects curing? Cornstarch may work!

[@christiangruening352]

Works well also with a bit of baby powder. I prefer three coats of spray filler. Cheaper and faster :) 2 thin coats cross sprayed one thick finish coat 😅

[@rauldelgadillo8447]

Durhams water putty has been the best. It mixes with water and sands like a dream.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'll look into it! Putty seems like the way to go in general.

[@armorhide406]

have you tried UV resin that you use for printers? It seems like a relatively affordable smooth on coating

[@iPaintSmallThings]

@@armorhide406 I have not yet-- but will!

[@Ne0kil]

You are mentioning that you need a "Printer with a .2 mm nozzle" but just so you know you can easily swap out nozzle sized on you printer. For the process of changing it you just need to heat your nozzle to a temperature where the plastic that is still inside melts, then unscrew the old nozzle, screw in the new nozzle and tighten it well and you are done. Only thing that is left to do is to change the nozzle size in your slicer and you are ready to go.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Oh that's really helpful! Thanks for letting me know!

[@Bazzdiver]

@@iPaintSmallThings but be careful your printer (CR-10 pro v2) does not have the usual threat on the nozzle (M6) instead it has M6x0,75 fine pitch. I work with the same machine and dealing with the same layer problems :(

[@Maker_HQ]

There's one other mechanical finishing technique you didn't cover - scraping! Quicker than sending and less messy. Really effective for 3D prints!

[@iPaintSmallThings]

That is shaving off thin layers with a knife right? That sounds like it would work!

[@Maker_HQ]

@@iPaintSmallThings yep, works great for any any flat or tubular prints E.g. kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZyWl4Woi7Bsedk

[@chrisolson_]

Search for the term "card scraper" -- it's another woodworking finishing technique that can also carry over to fdm finishing. I used to use filler and sanding but filler and scraping takes much less time and effort. There are different scraper sizes and shapes (and plenty of ways to sharpen them).

[@Ayeohx]

We used filler spray + sanding to do our last project. When it wasn't smooth enough we sprayed and sanded again. We printed at .12. Worked very well. Almost no layer lines. Took a lot of work though.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I think that's what I'll try on my next FDM vehicle. I'm sure it took a while!

[@themadhater9003]

Not sure if others mentioned these. You can use the fuzzy skin setting in your slicer. Apply bondo glazing putty, thin with acetone applied with a brush, or thinning it to the point that it can be sprayed through an airbrush. Salt recasting gives the surface a texture. Anealing in water binds the layers together tighter. Applying uv resin to the surface, curing and sanding. The thinner the resin the better.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Oh those are great ideas! Thank you!

[@pbkobold]

Using clear UV resin meant for art works well for me. For large pieces you can work in sections, painting it on, letting it self level, then fixing in place with a UV flashlight.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'll give it a go! Thank you!

[@martinrayner6466]

*Yes - I do the same;* For best results dip the entire thing in a vat (don't need to fully submerse item - simply rotate it), then while holding it above the vat rotate until the resin is even. Then hit with the UV light (away from the vat). Repeat if needed. Best thing about this technique is it cures very quickly. DO NOT GET RESIN ON SKIN OR IN EYES. I always have a fan on and do it in a well ventilated area. _Note; I usually attach a small handle (stick) for manipulation, and remove it later._

[@iPaintSmallThings]

@@martinrayner6466 I appreciate the tips!

[@eclipseslayer98]

7:12 I read that using IPA in a pressure cooker? crock pot? or whatever they're called is what does it. 8:20 Remember, some slicers like Cura have an option where you can have the model printed on the inside, middle, or outside of the model geometry, so if you want to sand material off, it's best to have it print on the outside measurement.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

haha I think I'll stick to something else then. That sounds like trouble in the making! I should really look into more slicer tweaks

[@Zapski]

I’m not a miniature printer, but I have done a lot of props and cosplay. I use Bondo spot filler, and sanding, followed by filler primer, sanding and then paint. Recently though, I started experimenting with PETG instead of PLA, and I find that it sands much better even without any filler.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Bondo is something I really need to try! I'll have to try some PETG someday, too. Thanks!

[@ausfoodgarden]

I often sand before applying spray filler. That's my go-to to try and reduce layer lines. And yes this is definitely science as you've published your results.😁

[@iPaintSmallThings]

That seems like a great method! haha that is fantastic news

[@peterfox184]

Thx 4 ur time to do this. Nice results

[@iPaintSmallThings]

No problem! I really appreciate it!

[@jonipaananen9304]

Nice work! My favorite so far is to 2-3 layers of spray filler, then sanding. Printing with max 0.1mm layers helps, I prefer waiting for the print over sanding

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I agree! I find that the extra few hours doesn't really matter in the long run

[@id744]

I recently watched someone use polyurethane for woodworking to "paint" over the layer lines. He did a couple thin coats and avoided pooling too much in crevices.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

oh interesting! I could see that working well

[@joselltemes]

have you tried with woodfiller putty?

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I have not! That's a good idea.

[@neilnagel9857]

I use thinned down water based wood filler. My prints are printed very slow with a .2 nozzle and .08 layer height. Then I paint on the thinned down wood filler and sand with 320. The wood filler is very easy to sand. Then I use Rustoleum automotive filler primmer spray can. There are no layer lines after that. Probably not good for minis but my models are larger than that.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

@@neilnagel9857 I'll make sure to look back at this when I try it! Thank you!

[@VolkanTaninmis]

Also, using the "fuzzy skin" option or embedding the texture via blender to model of your choice works well.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'm looking forward to trying that! I've never heard of it before

[@discussion210]

PLA works on specifically designed plas specifically poly smooth. Also you do it with vapors in a jar not directly on the part which is what probably went wrong with the other chemical method Also, you can just buy a 0.2mm nozzle and replace your default one for like a couple of dollars

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Yeah I'll definitely try the vapor in a jar technique. Thanks!

[@Davids3DProjects]

For vehicles or larger parts try fuzzy skin and Hibert Curve on the top layers when printing.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'll try those! Fuzzy skin is a cool idea.

[@Michelincat7034]

how about acetone vapor smoothing with abs filament? I'm tend to use that method often

[@iPaintSmallThings]

That would work very well! I don't have any ABS at the moment though-- maybe I should get some

[@Jonsoh811]

I’d love to see the result on a detailed miniature printed with a 0.2mm nozzle and the filler spray layers. To see the difference between one or two layers and what the amount of detail loss would be.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'll need to get one first haha but I agree-- it would be really interesting to see if the spray filler would get rid of too much detail

[@samdouglas32]

An approach I've found effective is a skim coat of plaster -- jointing compound or artists modelling paste. You can easily apply it to curved surfaces, a wetted finger gives a nice smooth finish.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Some sort of paste seems like a great way to go about it. Thanks!

[@PJSproductions97]

If you want to run more tests, I've also seen people taking uv resin or a slow curing epoxy and painting that onto an fdm print, then curing it with a uv flashlight.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

That one is definitely on the list!

[@MrScafir]

Thanks for the video! Really nice to see all of them side by side. Two comments: First, it seems like you have a bit a Z binding, which causes occasional irregularities in layer lines. As these are the most noticeable, it might be worth checking that your z axes are well lubricated and, if applicable, that the screws connecting the z carriage to your build plate are not too tight. Second is the heat gun. While I don't think that it will work so well, it would probably be better to set the temperature as high as possible, and apply it over short intervals, letting the part cool in between. That would allow the external walls to melt a bit, while keeping the internal structure cool and rigid.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'll for sure tune the printer and make sure things aren't too tight. Good idea with the heat gun-- that makes sense! Thanks!

[@Bloodthirstier]

I use Vallejo brush on matte varnish for resin layer lines if they are visible so maybe that could work?

[@iPaintSmallThings]

That could work! Brushing on some thick varnish may do it. I'll add it to the list!

[@tripled153]

Stumbled upon this video late. UV resin by itself or mixed with corn starch to add viscosity works well when applied with a brush. For my major large scale projects I coat with UV resin, cure. Then use a automotive filler primer and sand as necessary to get a near perfect finish.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I really want to try UV resin. That plus sanding seems like a great choice!

[@Matthew_Raymond]

On one PLA model I painted, I sanded first, then applied Bondo Glazing and Spot Putty (with a little bit of acetone nail polish remover to thin it out) using a brush to fill in any pits or gaps, sanded again, applied sandable primer, sanded again and applied the primer again and sanded again, then paint, then a clear coat to seal it. The original print quality was kinda poor, so it needed it.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

haha sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Bondo is something I'll for sure try

[@32587msw]

Cool test, thanks for sharing

[@iPaintSmallThings]

No problem! Thanks!

[@meikgeik]

For decreased layer lines, you need a well tuned printer, tuned to the filament you are using, and printing at a lower (smaller number) layer height will generally help. The size of the nozzle does not affect how badly layer lines are pronounced. I print amazing looking prints with .6 and .8mm nozzles, but the resolution for top and bottom layers is reduced. The reason minis look better with smaller nozzles is the horizontal resolution is increased. As for your prints: the random layers that stick out more than others is caused by either sloppy mechanisms on your printer (CR-10 is well known for being bad about this) or poor filament consistency. Filament with porosity, inconsistent diameter, or exposed for long times to humidity can cause issues like that. I like that you specifically increased layer height to emphasize the layers, but I figured I'd share those few things for you. For your CR-10, eliminate as many variables as possible by using known good filament stored in a dry place, lower layer height, and slow your speeds down.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I've lately cleaned the z-screw and that has helped a lot. That's a good point about the nozzle size! Yeah the CR-10 feels "wobbly" if that makes sense. I really appreciate the help!

[@JeromeDemers]

Great video. But once you actually do that on detail model like the guy @0:49 you end up in a very labor intensive that swapping to 0.2nozzle and printing slow will be faster in the end. I suggest you experiment fuzzy skin to add texture to your model this such a simple way to hide layers.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I agree-- that's probably the easiest way to go. Fuzzy skin is something I really want to try. Thanks!

[@oberon301178]

Well, that depends on the purpose for which the print is made. For instance for enclosure prints ( for hobby DIY electronics ) I would consider using "Fuzzy Skin" setting ( the name of the option is from CURA slicer I personally use ). This will not smooth the surface of course, but will disguise the layer lines for sure.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Fuzzy Skin will be high up on the list! I'm all about creating a cool surface texture.

[@LoremIpsum497]

I've found that a quick sand, then a couple of layers of filler primer then another quick sand will get you a very smooth surface. when you're sanding after primer, you're just leveling out the primer and not sanding down the plastic so its alot quicker and easier

[@iPaintSmallThings]

That may be the way forward-- sand, spray, sand, spray!

[@akumaking1]

Is there anything equivalent to resin layer lines?

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Yeah! I've heard a few things. 1) taking resin (uncured straight from the bottle) and brushing it on. Then cure it with a UV light. It SHOULD leave a smooth surface on top. 2) the tamiya putty/greenstuff technique from this video works very well on resin prints

[@dogsbd]

Automotive spot putty (like USC Red Glazing Putty) thinned with acetate then brushed on in several coats (it dries very fast between coats) and then sanding is great.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'll for sure give it a try!

[@erickmain]

Excellent video! I do miniatures and cosplay. Two other methods you might want to try are, automotive spot putty mixed with approximately 50% (or to your liking) acetone. Dry and sand. Brush on with trash brush. The other is UV resin mixed with baby powder. Cure and sand. Definitely going to subscribe.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I really appreciate it! UV resin mixed with baby powder sounds really interesting. Do you have a ratio? Or just until it makes the resin a little thicker?

[@erickmain]

@ I have watched a few videos. The ratios seam all over the place. So when I tried it I went with approximately 1 part powder to 3-4 parts resin. It wasn’t too bad. Still had to sand. So maybe my ratio was off. I was worried about dripping. A cool video is your test strips and maybe 5 different ratios to see how it performs. I still like automotive spot putty the most. That method is fast and easy to sand. But that might be my lack of patience talking. My most recent project was a Red Ranger helmet and after the print time it was finished in about two days. I’m definitely going to try the resin method again. Good luck on anything you do!

[@MagTheFrag]

Polymaker has a line of PLA filament called polysmooth that is able to be vapor smoothed with IPA. I would assume this is where you heard about IPA smoothing.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

That must have been it. Thanks!

[@KABAR1943]

Ive sprayed a .2 nozzle mini with a few coats polyurethane and it hid the layer lines incredibly well

[@iPaintSmallThings]

A .2mm nozzle seems like the way to go

[@keisisqrl]

Smooth-On makes a product called XTC-3D that is designed to be brushed on to any filament and gives a high gloss while hiding layer lines. Your mileage may vary with it though, people I know have had mixed results.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

It looks like it's some sort of fast drying/curing resin! I think brushing on UV resin and then curing it would have similar results!

[@SuperWhatever1979]

Methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) is a solvent for PLA. It works for PLA like acetone for ABS. Try letting some of the vapors from that get at one of your samples. Put some MEK in a jar, suspend one of your cards to let it soak in the vapor for a bit. Aside from that, a couple of cycles of automotive filler primer and sanding works wonders for reliably smoothing FDM props. Brushing on and curing UV resin meant for SLA printing might also be something to try - cure it in the sun.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Those are all great ideas! I'll put them on the list!

[@GantryG]

Mojo Jojo is going down! 🔥

[@iPaintSmallThings]

It's about darn time!

[@zetathix]

For me i think sandblasting + sanding would be the best because it's even out the lines. Scrape filling with flat edge tool and filler + primer spraying would be nice too. I alway think on adding to the grooves only while keep the bump lines the same, any filler should be easy to work with more than the printed plastic itself. If the time is not issue maybe try the tumbler method.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

haha sand blasting probably would work! I wonder if there is one near me I could use. I want to try scraping for sure!

[@ChocolateMilkMonster]

Print it again but put the part on a 30 degree angle, model you own supports too if you want. Printing on a 30 degree angle adds detail, increases strength and hides layers much better than straight up/down prints.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I normally print resin prints at around 30-45 degrees-- so that makes sense for FDM too!

[@404NoNameAvailable]

My favorite method so far was a heavy acrylic based filler spray (Its called "Spritzspachtel" here in germany) and sanding. For small miniatures i use Geeetech matte dark grey PLA, a 0.2 nozzle and 0.06 layers. I spray the fischend models with the filler, wet sand (400 grit) any flat surfaces and use a copper wire brush on detailed surfaces. Then I use a heavy layer of black primer as the final touch.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

You're the second person who has suggested Geeetech! I'll have to give it a go. Thanks!

[@404NoNameAvailable]

@@iPaintSmallThings While I like Geeetech filament, the matte is the important part. With a good matte filament supports are a lot easier to remove. Also the matte filament from Geeetech sands a bit better than normal PLA.

[@MossNada]

It's harder to find than regular filler, but watered down Liquitex Modelling paste, applied with a sponge brush, can get a really smooth finish. Especially when sanded with a high grit paper (e.g. 800).

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Paste + sanding seems like a really great method

[@janetcameron4652]

Have you tried layers of uv resin? Just my 2 coppers.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I have not! I will though!

[@StaindHand]

Didn’t see bondo spot putty + acetone- which is an excellent way to nearly completely eliminate those layer lines

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'll put it on the list! Thanks!

[@nobodyuknow4911]

From many years of costume making with 3D prints, my process is: Sand sand sand sand sand to get it smooth-ish... start low grit to carve off the material, and work up the grits to smooth and even it out. Then, bondo or other filling compound Sand some more fill some more sand again to see how smooth you've gotten it filler primer spray paint(s)

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Bondo is something I want to try for sure. Thanks!

[@nobodyuknow4911]

@@iPaintSmallThings No problem ^_^ Also, see how you like "Glazing putty", it isn't 2-part like bondo is, and is easily workable by hand (but wear nitrile gloves just the same) to smooth the surface and work it into cracks/gaps. It MUST be used outside and I recommend a respirator, because it is very fumey, but so does Bondo and such, plus the sanding dust should be kept outside if you can as well.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'll look into that! I appreciate the tips

[@Ramón_b23]

I use a .4 nozzle, and works great for miniatures. Printing slowly I dont even have layer lines

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'll have to try decreasing the speed! That's good to know

[@ParryHisParry]

​@@iPaintSmallThings I'm dying to see that as a video plz!

[@Roobotics]

Printing slower doesn't magically erase layer lines, in minimizes ringing artifacts and can improve the alignment of layers, but you will still have 0.2mm layers, just more precise ones. Decreasing your z-steps under 0.2mm is what will actually make them blend away to nothing BUT it requires a good printer that has a solid motion system for best results, and obviously adds more print time.

[@Ramón_b23]

@@Roobotics I dont print in 0.2 layer height, I do it in .12 with adaptative layers, getting as low as 0.08

[@Ramón_b23]

I even tried .04 with great results, but as you said: longer prints. It looks exactly as a resin print

[@bluehodd]

Thanks for the video!

[@iPaintSmallThings]

No problem!

[@stripes7214]

Vapor smoothing is awesome and if you dont want to deal with abs or asa, you can try printing with hips and smoothing with limonene, its safer too :3

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I've not heard of HIPs before-- safer is always good!

[@Xieken]

My go to technique now is to do a light sanding and then put a layer of resin and then cure it with UV light, it does wondrous is getting rid of lines with almost no to minimal sanding required

[@iPaintSmallThings]

That one will be top of the list! Thanks!

[@willow5204]

A .2 nozzle makes a huge difference. You can print smaller layers and see more detail. I print at .08 layer height with a .2mm nozzle and the layer lines are extremely small and almost disappear completely with a coat of surface primer. After a couple coats of paint you aren't really seeing any lines. I print minis FDM and they look 80-90% as good as resin ones, and thats good enough for me given the low cost of entry into FDM.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I should really get a .2mm nozzle then! That's cool to hear

[@ZeeengMicro]

If you are lazy and dont mind one color figure, you could try matte color filament + outer(external) layer first setting in the slicer. Also works with matte spray paint. This will hide layer lines considerably well. Also you dont have to change the nozzle that often. As long the tip is still "sharp" and you keep dust away from sticking to the filament (use dust filter), clogging will most likely never happen.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

For game pieces-- one color figures are completely fine! My nozzle was so clogged after about 2/3 years that it was probably cheaper to just replace it. Plus the silicone heat cover was torn and covered. You're right though!

[@johndoe920]

the problem with any of the ones that work is also why they work. They work because they remove or obscure details. So yes, you will get rid of the layer lines but you will also get rid of the details. And the primer worked worse than the filler because the whole point of miniature painting primer is to not obscure detail. And the reason some of the stuff like heat and solvents didn't work as expected is that it requires additional work. All it does is soften the surface so you can then rework it, just softening the surface will not get rid of the lines. With the solvents you basically want to dissolve the top layer and then "smear" it to get rid of the lines.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Yeah that's the tricky part-- removing layer lines without removing too much detail. I feel the solvents would work a lot better in a vapor chamber to avoid having to smear

[@zackroach5105]

If you are planning on sanding it and are worried about going to far increase the wall count so there is more you can sand down before reaching infill

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Great tip! That would help

[@fischele5790]

This mirrors my experiences pretty closely when finishig FDM parts. Fill Sand Fill really is the only way to make layer lines disappear fully. I tried Ethyl Acetate but I found that even when leaving PLA submerged init overnight it only dissolves it a tiny bit. And what I noticed when I got a new printer is that any Ender 3 type printer really doesn't hold a chance against modern CoreXY printers in terms of quality.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Interesting! Fill, sand, & fill is probably what I'll use going forward the most. Yeah-- the newer FDM printers are wild.

[@reelement8032]

I wouldn't mind seeing a combination of your favourites: Tamiya putty, sand, Filler spray (1 and 2 coats) then prime.

[@reelement8032]

Reason being is that I imagine the putty would hide the deepest flaws, then the filter might make up the slight differences in the putty post sanding.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'm probably gonna try that with some bondo or something! It should act similarly to the tamiya putty

[@hatray4540]

what about: -printing at an angle - lower the layer heigh (0,12) It ll take same time as extra sanding and it should be good after painting - "fuzzy skin" but it has to bee set up properly to get good results

[@iPaintSmallThings]

These are great ideas!

[@EpicAwesomeWin87]

I use Polylite PolyTerra PLA for basically anything in my bambu x1c. About 0.16mm layer height is quite neat with a 0.4mm nozzle.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

The bambu x1c seems like such a great machine

[@EpicAwesomeWin87]

@iPaintSmallThings it is! If you feel it's too expensive you could go with a cheaper core x/y machine like the Creality K1. For me the x1c is perfect. It's almost as easy as pressing "print". Of course there is some maintenance to do after a couple of hours of print time etc. But it's quite simple. Tension the belts if needed and lubricate the z-lead screws. Also the new version of their slicer has solved the issue with excessive purging material when printing multi colours.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

@@EpicAwesomeWin87 haha that sounds incredible. Also, as a youtube guy, I really love the timelapse capability on it.

[@Burbsi]

i've used Transparent Polysmooth from polymaker which is like PVA that dissolves with IPA. Had decent success hiding layer lines but it's not perfect and costs a bit more. i just really liked that i could avoid ABS/ASA and acetone. But the print gets really sticky and bendy plus it takes forever to dry and get hard again. Not just 24hours - more like 7 days in sunshine and this were objects printed in vase mode... This filament is supposed to be used in polymakers polysher but i just sprayed it on with a spraybottle.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

huh. I'll look more into that! Thank you!

[@Vaasref]

Scraping using a metal kidney. Much more effective than sanding. And the technique to remove lines are the same as for sanding a floor, always scrape at at least 45 degrees of the lines until they are removed then at least 45 degrees of the previous scraping, otherwise the tool just reproduce the pattern rather than removing the higher peaks.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I've never really heard of that before-- I'll try it! Thanks for the tips!

[@mrmidnight32]

Look into the new feature called “ironing” build into the Bambu slicer. I heard it’s really good

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Will do! That sounds promising

[@Bazzdiver]

does not help on walls, it's only on surfaces

[@thatoneguy.-]

I can appreciate all the work you put into this. But you missed 2 of the most common methods which is using a skim coat of wood filler or skim coat of Bondo, then sanding smooth. Would love to see that

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I appreciate it! I'll get them and test them out next time!

[@Kraganeth]

You can also remake the surface with some kind of resin, either UV or smooth on has product specifically for printing called XTC 3D, its quite good but you risk clogging details and creating ugly "drips". I need to experiment with it a little more. I make cosplay props and I currently use 3ish coats of fill primer combined with sanding. However you use a lot of spray filler and it can get quite expensive since I use like 1,5 cans on one prop.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'll check out XTC 3D-- I haven't heard of that before! Oh wow that's a lot of cans.

[@neileddy6159]

Bondo or othwr filler putty thinned. UV resin that you use for SLA printing. Don't use PLA because it is a monster to sand. The normal process for finish work is to print at a small layer height using PETG, sand with a palm sander for large areas, a oscillating tool for medium areas and a dremmel for small areas, use acetone lightly, use filler putty and sand again, use resin and sand again, use filler spray and sand again usually a couple times, then prime paint and finish. It is a very tedious job to get a super smooth finish, and typically requires many techniques.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I really appreciate all the tips! Yeah-- it's all about finding a good balance between effort vs results.

[@neileddy6159]

@iPaintSmallThings yep, I just wanted to detail out the process of those people who do it to sell things go through to make it perfect. Switching from PLA to PETG really helps with sanding ease, and Resin works as an easy level filler, so I figured I would mention them.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

@@neileddy6159 I appreciate all the help! I'm very interested in using resin to fill-- I have so much of it laying around.

[@armorhide406]

I haven't had to swap my nozzles with my Prusa and Bambu; I suspect the replace every few months is cause Creality went as cheap as they could

[@iPaintSmallThings]

interesting interesting... Maybe it's time for an upgrade then!

[@theresinsamurai4520]

you missed the acetone thinned bondo putty painted on and then sanded off but everything else you did was appreciated

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I appreciate it!

[@HarvickOne]

bondo putty, filler spray, sand, 2K clear coat, sand, polish, air brush

[@iPaintSmallThings]

A lot of people seem to love bondo putty! I'll have to get some

[@section279]

Bondo would be an interesting choice.

[@kgoblin5084]

Seems like the best bet might be to do an initial sanding, then a fill-primer spray, then sand, then finish with a 2nd fill-primer spray - basically combining the 2 best result techniques. You could probably skimp a bit on the sanding effort too, since the fill spray will do some of the heavy lifting. Obviously a texturing layer is also pretty easy to figure out how to incorporate in. Not surprised IPA didn't do a thing, there is a certain contingent on the interwebs that seems bound & determined to sell-up IPA as some super strong & dangerous chemical... but reality sharply disagrees :D. Honestly the ethyl-acetate also didn't do much from what I can tell. Given that ethyl acetate is NOT readily available that kind of definitively scratches it out for me :/

[@iPaintSmallThings]

That's probably what I'll do in the future! I totally agree! haha it's funny that it is a great cleaning solution, too. I think with the ethyl acetate-- a vapor chamber is the best way to go about it. Painting on didn't really do as much as I hoped.

[@drunken_physics]

i would try brushing in pla resin, using wood filler and xtc this were classics to help hide lines

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'll give them a go!

[@ristopoho824]

I tried to smooth the layers in a piece with a heat gun and had similar results to yours. Though, for that piece, the warping and trying to salvage it from warping too much made it look better. It was supposed to be a brass pot, and, looked too factory made to begin with, some warping made it look like it was handmade. Possibly a good method for altering shapes. Needs further investigation.

[@ristopoho824]

For parts that are meant to be sanded. 0,6mm is better. Bigger more noticeable lines yes, but if you sand them, much wider outer layer. The extra width in it counts for so much.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Oh yeah that's a good idea! Warping things to add a little realism and weathering. You could probably use a sculpting tool to make divots and dents, too!

[@Jokershadow696]

I use uv resin. You just need to find the one liquid enough to level out but dense enough to stay in place and not drip.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'll definitely try it!

[@BeeBN]

fill spray is goat'd

[@iPaintSmallThings]

It really is haha

[@whovian64]

Not bad, however a few details you end up with are a bit misleading. The diameter of the nozzle almost never affects layer line visibility, it affects corners and fine details. What you want to tinker with is layer height,ost printers these days can get as low as .08mm and in my experience that is more than good enough for minis that you plan to paint. But with other techniques, like filler or chemical smoothing, it's just as good, if not better than any resin print I've made. Additionally your temperature matters a lot when hiding later lines, it would have been a good idea to play around with some different temps on the cards Also your z screw might need some adjustment, as your layers are really defined, I would recommend checking those out before moving further

[@iPaintSmallThings]

oh interesting! I'll see what my printer can get to after I mess with the printer a bit. A few people have mentioned the Z screw being too tight-- thank you!

[@whovian64]

@@iPaintSmallThings np, the great thing about 3d printing is that there are millions of people who know a million different things. Crowd sourcing information is one of the best things when learning because of this

[@iPaintSmallThings]

@@whovian64 Yeah it's really awesome! I've learned a ton of stuff from the comments

[@dogukangegecan]

I’ve never looked into fillers myself, but wouldn’t a liquid with higher adhesion than cohesion work better for filling the layer lines? It could seep into the tiny gaps of layer lines instead of just sitting on the outermost points of the layers. Of course, you’d need to think about things like air bubbles and curing time(some vibration and looong curing times would be better I guess? ). I love 3D printing, but as an engineer I’ve never really had any artistic concerns. It might be useful for the miniature-making community.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'm thinking UV resin (then cured) would work like that! Yeah-- it's an interesting problem to solve!

[@vakieh4381]

The heat gun won't be marked by temperature because it's a complex function of distance, time, and heat transfer coefficient of the thing you're heat shooting. Grab a thermal camera and point it at the plastic if you want to see consistent results. Then it would really be sciencey

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I believe other versions of the same gun has the temp on it-- but that's good to know. haha that may be beyond my pay grade

[@vakieh4381]

@@iPaintSmallThings Maybe the temp of the heating element, or temp of the air exiting the gun (though more likely some arbitrary temperature that people then think is what it will magically set things to, manufacturers can be pricks like that). You can get cheapie FLIR thermal cameras to attach to phones and things - makes for very interesting 3d print footage actually, watching the heat transfer from the nozzle, see the effect on layers already laid down, looking at how the heat bed isn't actually uniform and how prints lift from cold spots, etc.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

@@vakieh4381 Yeah you're probably right. I haven't ever thought about. Filming a 3d print would be fascinating. Great idea!

[@RussellWilliams736]

From two feet away the fill spray would probably be the best for most vehicles.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I agree! It's not too bad from a ways away

[@sgredsch]

to me it Looks like switching to a modern corexy printer with high quality filament would solve most of the deep layer lines, as those look like minor layer inaccuracy, irregular Extrusion and theres also some ringing

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I cleaned the z-screws (not incredibly well) and that seemed to help a ton. But yeah, it may be time for an upgrade!

[@Matt-md5yt]

sweet

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Thanks!

[@ThylineTheGay]

1:04 what an obnoxious boot sound lol

[@iPaintSmallThings]

lmao it scares me every time

[@LUN5HTIME]

geetech has surprisingly good pla

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Oh-- I haven't heard of them! Thanks!

[@LUN5HTIME]

only get the regular pla

[@dropbear9785]

You might find this video helpful to you, especially toward the end where he goes into larger models. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqvJkKN5gM99hNE Also, you might try some different filaments (brands and types). They print differently. (and I think it's generally the case that the matte PLA is more easy to sand than standard PLA). HOWEVER there are print options you can use to minimize the layer lines....possibly to a point that you don't notice them.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

That looks like a great video. I haven't really messed with many settings on my printer other than temperature. I appreciate it!

[@LordNerfherder]

Alright, lets see you sand and spray fill a miniatures face :( Nah but try print outer wall slower and try calibrating it or something. The lines are too uneven even for an FDM printer. But its not gonna get great. Acetone is the smoothener btw... not ipa.IPa cleans PLA but does not dissolve it. This isnt very good as it literally dissolves it so it does not work well on minis.

[@iPaintSmallThings]

Yeah-- that's the only issue with sanding/filling. I for sure have to calibrate my printer more.

[@nickrobertson9533]

Use fuzzy settings in your slicer......

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'm on it!

[@pest5373]

I have fdm print minis on my bambu a1 mini and they are immaculate you just need the right settings. Im not in the mini hobbyspace or tabletop gaming at all i just like small characters and my opinion is that all these people trying to cause divide should just get over themselves to be honest

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I've heard amazing things about that printer-- I'm jealous! haha that's how I was too! There is something really satisfying about little models

[@xrok1]

gloop or a coat of uv resin

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'm always down to gloop

[@kafricano7684]

Should just painted resin on it it works great

[@iPaintSmallThings]

I'll give it a go!