The Smoothest Filament: 3D Printing without layer lines!

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[@DavidSmith-te9gg]

So basically don't bother with this material and smoothing and just spend the extra time with a lower layer height, or buy a resin printer :)

[@LostInTech3D]

Yeah, except for very specific use cases like balloon dogs 😜

[@alijah1539]

Would adding a small fan to circulate the vapor more evenly help with the collapsing issues. Just a tiny fan connected to a 9V would be pretty safe around the alcohol.

[@martonlerant5672]

Well, no. 1 - resins are waaay more toxic, and messi 2 - material options are more limited, way more limited 3 - resin costs more 4 - cannot (easily) create models with internal voids 5 - there is no way to do stuff like inserting magnets mid print 6 - large sizes are not only prohibitively costly in terms of material, but are astronomical in printer price.

[@AngeloMondaini]

No, with more patience and calibration, one can get parts that rivals injection molded models. Of course with random amounts of alcohol you get random results. I do with abs and acetone, there is an ideal amount of acetone, too feel and nothing happens, too much and it melts. The parts look much more professional. And even parts with the smallest layer looks terrible when you paint them.

[@randomname4726]

​@@AngeloMondainiI've found 50 micron and a 0.25 nozzle to look great when printed.

[@glowpon3]

I don't print PVB for anything I want to keep as the final product, but it's my go-to when I'm making a mold for making something from it. I use a medical nebulizer to vaporize IPA in a closed chamber to do the smoothing. Biggest issue is if you go too far bubbles in the layer lines will come up and ruin the finish. Still, it's opened a lot of options for my products.

[@exceptionalanimations1508]

what products.

[@glowpon3]

@@exceptionalanimations1508 polymaker polysmooth clear for dissolving totally and green for printing. Green is the easiest color to see surface details with for humans. Nebulizer is generic from amazon. Note, printing in clear pvb is almost impossible to see the surface finish.

[@thethubbedone]

That's a really cool idea, I hadn't considered making molds by dissolving out the plastic

[@glowpon3]

@@thethubbedone I don't melt out the plastic, I just use PVB because I can get a glass smooth surface. It takes quite a while to dissolve PVB completely, but it should be possible eventually. Still, I wouldn't suggest it.

[@mrdurden3224]

Have you tried sanding before smoothing? Seems like that could get some good results.

[@BorderlineForge-vf4bi]

My friend helps me make 3D printed sand casting patterns. They need to be smooth like glass in order to draw from the sand easily. We used to spend an unholy amount of time with filler paint and hand sanding, which was untenable for inside corners and complex shapes. Now we use a resin printer for high detail and complex geometry and a regular FDM printer for simple shapes require less time to make smooth. We have also made hybrid pattern pieces by fitting a resin printed outer shell over an FDM support structure. The advantage of the FDM support structure vs filling the resin printed parts with a castable epoxy resin is that when I assemble the patterns to a match plate board I am able to still flex the printed part a little bit to correct the warping with clamping pressure as they are glued down to the plate.

[@oneandy2]

For the simple parts, why not just make them out of wood? It would be even faster. Its been the material of choice for pattern makers for thousands of years. The whole advantage of 3d printing patterns is the ease of making complex patterns...

[@mpg500]

That tool is called a Vero strip cutter. used for cutting tracks on vero strip board. A drill bit is also suitable for this. Yes I'm an old electronics engineer, and still use vero strip board occasionally when prototyping a really simple design when its not worth dropping £30 on a pcb when you only want to build 1 board.

[@TherapyWithWind]

Somehow I thought it was a wire wrapping tool? Looks like an optometrist visit is in order.🤷🏻‍♂️

[@mpg500]

My eyes are not great either so you could still be right@@TherapyWithWind

[@LostInTech3D]

tbh it was an afterthought so I didn't take a particularly good pic of it, but yeah it's the stripboard track breaking tool

[@alexandrevaliquette3883]

I did not know what was a "vero strip board" so I Google it and hit 'image'. The first results were not related to electronic by any stretch of imagination. Thank you for sharing.

[@MrPGT]

Spot face cutter, or just use a drill bit. I can't remember which diameter anymore, though. Maybe 6mm? Haven't had the need to use any Veroboard in years, but I probably still have some around in a dark and dusty corner.

[@stldenise]

I think I’ll stick to my favorite method of hiding layer lines: GLITTER, LOTS OF GLITTER

[@JohnWilliams-vy2gw]

Why aren't we using glitter with all our projects??

[@dodsg]

OK, my prints are about to get a whole load more fabulous!

[@Mr_Yod]

I prefer mine more: Random person: "Ugh, look at those ugly lay-AAARGH! MY EYES!" Me, after stabbing that person's eyes: "Now you dont see them anymore. (👉ﾟヮﾟ)👉" ⚆_⚆ =)

[@JanTec3D]

Yeah! Or Carbon/Glass Fibres.

[@Beakerzor]

riddle: 10 people got together for a crafting party, 1 person brought glitter, how many projects became glitter projects?

[@littlefrank90]

Loved the blue vase simply turning to paper ahahah

[@DDCC35]

Looked more like the Hindenburg... 😮

[@uiopuiop3472]

12:04 all three are spayed

[@LIONGOD]

it just needs a little love

[@Azmodon]

I use either a soldering iron or my plastic stapler to heatset a pin for hanging, then an airbrush. You can selectively smooth areas, and with the blowing air you can rapidly dry. No drips / runs / smudges, full control... love the fear or fire though, as someone who's worked in explosive / poison gas environments, and juggles fire for a hobby, it's a nice reminder that I'm insane lol

[@TheFredmac]

Thanks for posting this. I will use this idea for painting prints.

[@berlinberlin4246]

You can buy and drink weingeist / Primasprit / Trinkalkohol with 96,4%vol. Ethanol Its used for thinks like cherry spirit (Kirsch Wasser)!

[@davydatwood3158]

Oh, you win. :) I was just going to post about Screech, whish is basically commercially available moonshine, and that's rated 180 proof which works out to to 90%vol. But that's less than 96.4. :D

[@BKope]

We have everclear in the states... 190 proof. But schnapps tastes way better

[@MegaCasey09]

I was suprised to hear other ones besides everclear ​@@BKope

[@uiopuiop3472]

i am the jazz musician. i will do this to the jaz zmemoriaphilia

[@GoTVm_]

You can use the stickiness of PVB when in contact with IPA to your advantage: it makes for great chemical bonding of PVB parts. I bonded two PVB parts to one another by applying IPA to each of the faces I wanted to merge and then keeping them in contact with one another for a while. Result was a very strong bond, though unbreakable without destroying the prints. My PVB also used to string a lot, I found that printing it at lower temperatures (I think about 190-200) helped with it. Keeping it dry also definitely helps.

[@seraaron]

I don't hate layer lines. i think they're part of the inherent aesthetic of 3d printed parts. rather than trying to pretend we're making injection molded parts, we should just embrace the natural idiosyncrasies of our process!

[@MrGTAmodsgerman]

But they collect dust particles between those layers and sometimes even unable to get rid off unless sand it down.

[@RFC3514]

I guess it depends if you're trying to make "3D printed parts" or just, you know, *parts.* When I'm making something _functional,_ I don't really care about the process, I care about the thing I'm doing. And having holes or irregularities on the surface makes the part weaker / more prone to friction / harder to clean, etc..

[@ThePlacehole]

Exactly! Both visual and functional requirements exist. It's always the same "oh then you're using the wrong process..." Pretending it's impossible, while completely ignoring all the people that manage to make cool stuff with FDM.

[@TheFish711]

@@RFC3514Get better at designing your parts then

[@RFC3514]

@@TheFish711 - Nothing that I wrote has anything to do with _design._ Layer lines and gaps are an inherent artefact of FDM. FDM-printed parts will never be as strong and smooth as injection-moulded parts, for the same material.

[@Segphalt]

A means to circulate the vapor in the chamber seems like a good way to speed up the process.

[@LostInTech3D]

Yes! The danger there is any spark could ignite it, but people do that.

[@pizzablender]

@@LostInTech3D It would/could be a true explosion. I do not like those vapor volumes at all.

[@Segphalt]

I think a peristaltic pump could minimize the risk just not sure how much flow is realistically needed.

[@Noxoreos]

A brushless fan doesn't produce sparks. You could also use a motor outside of the container with the shaft going into it with a plastic fan attached to it. There are lots of possibilities to avoid danger. Not doing somthing at all for safety sounds like a poor excuse to me when there are actually plenty of safe ways to do that.

[@MrKornnugget]

@@LostInTech3D Polymaker already makes one called Polysher.

[@lajoyalobos2009]

I think my dreams of printing a PVB shot glass to drink whiskey from are effectively ruined! 😂

[@LostInTech3D]

I did wonder what would happen if you drink plastohol, but not enough to try it

[@jucanavazreque3429]

I mean, you could, but it would be one use only... for more than one reason 😂😂

[@TechieSewing]

@@jucanavazreque3429 A disposable KZbinr... what a fate! ;)

[@BrendonGreenNZL]

​@@LostInTech3D If you're going to try that, at least use something non-toxic; like PLA. Still wouldn't recommend it, though.

[@RFC3514]

Just means you have to drink it quickly.

[@bobingabout]

PCB Way advert. Love stripboard. That tool looks like a drill, for drilling out holes to break the track of stripboard. And I'm probably one of the few that has actually made my own PCBs. I used to work at a college, and basically had my own dark room with all the equipment required to make PCBs, including a spray etch tank.

[@ethansdad3d]

"The Smoothest Filament: 3D Printing without layer lines!" title seems misleading. The filament didn't start or print any smoother than others. It's post processing.

[@yakirfrankoveig8094]

Its also not the only material you can vapour smooth

[@glowpon3]

I keep some fully dissolved PVB in a jar just in case. You can put a drop on the print bed during print to glue down the print if it starts to curl. Just know, removing that drop from the bed will be fun at the end.

[@LostInTech3D]

That's a good idea!

[@Vousie]

I question your definition of fun. 😂😂

[@robson668]

Try a ultrasonic mist maker for that vapor chamber, i think this could accelerate the process or at least result in a more uniform cloud.

[@alittlebitintellectual7361]

Been thinkingk of that. Not sure how well the parts of my ultrasonic mist units do in chemicals For me mostl acetone because abs

[@MrKornnugget]

Polymaker makes this.

[@AmaroqStarwind]

I like PVB because it can be burned out more cleanly than PLA when you're doing lost-filament casting.

[@sierraecho884]

It´s perfect for metal casting

[@BigRigCreates]

This came out at the perfect time since I need to make a super smooth ball for my next project and I had some Polysmooth laying around. Thanks!

[@ares395]

If you need something with ridiculous roundness etc. buy a pool ball. They are made to a ridiculous standards but are only one size.

[@BigRigCreates]

@@ares395 This needs to have a specific size + magnet inside, so still needs to be 3D printed

[@davedixon2167]

Polymaker does have a machine to do this with - it's something like 150-200 bucks maybe? It mounts the model on little spikes and rotates it while circulating the vapor. Only takes 15-30 minutes depending on your model, then it evacuates the chamber and lifts the model out. When I printed in PVB regularly, it was a nice thing to do, as long as your model doesn't need to be perfect on its bottom.

[@jeffgros8508]

I bought a roll of Prusament PETG and it was super stringy until I dried it (the vacuum seal was still intact). Other spools of Prusament had no issues. My sample size is pretty small though. Only about 5 spools of Prusament in total. Maybe it was really humid that day in Prague. This taught me to always pre-dry before printing. Glad you didn't have any issues with Prusament though. Good quality stuff in general. Love your content. Keep it up.

[@ThePhiliposophy]

That Jack Daniel's roast was golden! 🤣Learned something new: Ethanol > JD

[@maxwell_edison]

I think all of these could be improved with upgraded gear. A softer, more specific brush would probably make brushing easier, and I think the spray method could be improved GREATLY by getting a dedicated mist/spray bottle. For medical use it doesn't matter how the spray is, but for smoothing, a spray that comes out like a fun mist would lead to the least amount of drops and most consistent smoothing

[@dekutree64]

A spray gun like used for finish application would be best to get an even coat. You wouldn't even have to clean it afterward since the stuff you're spraying is used for cleaning :) Also, try to get the object mounted on a stick so you can quickly turn it around and get all sides without touching it.

[@FaenumVena]

A cheap airbrush setup might work too, you can buy them with a little air pump for not much and you can controll the spray of them.

[@Vousie]

Also, for both those methods, sticking the print to a stick or something before doing the spraying or painting would really help with the fingerprints/smudge marks issue (and the mess issue).

[@Beakerzor]

thank you for your science and hard work, you just saved me 2 months of wasted time, you are my hero!

[@cursedvoid]

tbh i still kind of like layer lines, they are a kind of way to acknowledge the method used to make an item. Truly for additive manufacturing its kind of the main hallmark of it other than impossible shapes and structures.

[@jedimitroff5952]

I actually like the look of layer lines. It just makes it look more like 3D prints and shows how it was made.

[@AnWe79]

Sounds like a good filament for lost plastic casting. Smooth for smooth cast finish, and relatively easy to melt out of the mold I assume

[@JonS]

The first PVB filament I'm aware of was Polymaker's PolySmooth. The original 2016 Kickstarter had a machine called the PolySher that uses an ultrasonic nebulizer to create a fine mist of IPA, and a turntable to spin the part. You could say it's similar to spraying, but the fine mist floats and so is more controllable than spraying (which can easily lead to runs). It worked pretty well and was quite fast, although with the layer lines on my printer of the day, it needed quite a lot of smoothing that would obliterate fine details on a print. The parts also remained sticky for several days, so it was important not to touch them, otherwise you'd leave finger prints on the parts. Some people made some pretty incredible glass-like clear parts with it. With the tips from CNC Kitchen's video on printing clear parts (going slow, and with a flow rate that would normally be considered over-extruding) you might want to try this.

[@Mtrzc]

Respect earned for using safety data sheets

[@nathanreed3302]

I tried a bit of pvb from yousu and it worked great. I found my best method for smoothing to be streching out metal window screen material over a frame and misting with a hair dressers spray bottle. It puts out a fine mist and as long as you hold the trigger it continues to mist. I did 3 or 4 total misting sprays and allowed it to try between coats and then dry for a day when finished. I used 99% alcohol. I did two nice large black swans for decoration.

[@TheFredmac]

Does the screen pattern show where the print sits on it?

[@nathanreed3302]

@@TheFredmac yes it does. The problem I had was if it was on anything else the alcohol would pool and soften the bottom layer and give it a worse elephant's foot then just regular printing could. The screen allows the alcohol to fall and drip off which I found to be the best thing. You potentially could thicken up the bottom layer and then after you're done with everything sand it with a high grit sandpaper and smooth it remove the pattern from the screen

[@TheFredmac]

@@nathanreed3302 farther down in the comments someone said they use a soldering iron to put a staple in the print. Then they can hang the print from the staple. Someone else said they use parchment baking paper to keep the print from sticking. Most of what I need smoothed I can live with a screen pattern on a section of the print. This is all good information thanks for replying.

[@ZombieHedgehogMakes]

Great video showing all kinds of smoothing methods! I'm a fan of the spray bottle on a mesh rack. Just need to be careful not to get dust or hair on it since it will become a permanent part of the print...

[@TechieSewing]

That was really funny, even by your standards :) Nice to see Gordon again! Another application would be buttons, like clothes buttons, and possibly moulds of any kind would benefit from getting this fine grain texture instead of layer lines. The marmalade vase is my fave :)

[@oddestraindrop]

Denatured alcohol that is typically found in the painting section at most home improvement stores is high concentration ethanol. Denatured means they are something to make it so you cant drink it, bitterents, methanol, ect.

[@RFC3514]

Not quite. The one you find in the painting section is usually mixed with quite a lot of methanol, which tastes the same as ethanol but is *highly* toxic. "Denaturated" simply means there's _something else_ in it besides the "main" alcohol and water. The one you buy at the _chemist's_ (pharmacy) is usually 70% or 96% ethanol, with the rest being water, and 0.1% of a safe denaturant (like denatonium) to make it taste bad so people don't use it as a cheap alternative to vodka. If it specifically says "denaturated *ethanol"* it's probably safe (just ethanol, water, and something bitter). If it says "denaturated *alcohol"* there might be other alcohols in it (like methanol). Still mostly safe to _handle,_ but definitely, definitely don't even _taste_ it.

[@gfixler]

PolyMaker PolyTerra, printed (based on a temp tower) at 185C (215 first layer) has nearly invisible layer lines, because it's matte. It looks gorgeous, and it's mostly what I use now. I've printed many things that look injection molded.

[@TechneMoira]

The tool was used for wirewrapping circuits. Years ago I actually built a 8048 cpntroller with all its peripherals with wirewrapping. Tedious but practical when you want to make a proof of concept

[@LimbaZero]

I have that same tool :) Now few times used pcbway or itead. For prototyping those fr4 protoboards with lots of soldered wires under. That's why I bought my 3d printer to print case for those projects.

[@T313COmun1s7]

Just so you know, ethanol at 99% is sold in parts of the US as Everclear. They sometimes have to adjust the proof from state to state, but back in 1993 when I was in the Air Force and living in Oklahoma, the Everclear was 199.5 proof or 99%. Yes, I did shots of it, and no I would not recommend.

[@Jeff-ss6qt]

Have you tried paint thinner (Denatured Alcohol) for much more pure ethanol? All it usually has added to it is bitterant so that people don't drink it and so that they can bypass the alcohol laws.

[@billverine765]

Thanks for doing this testing. It is a great option for printing things you don't want to paint or sand. I have been using a .12 layer height and Elegoo Rapid PLA+ with my Qidi XMax3 and I must say the layer lines are very hard to see. For most applications it is good enough. If it's something you wanting to paint, a quick sand of 220 and some filler primer and Bob is your uncle. The great thing about this new generation of printers is it is feasible to use these tiny layer lines and not have your print take 3 days. I have tried a ton of PLA brands and the Elegoo Rapid is the best and it is cheap, only $16.99. It prints better than Qidi's Rapido filament which I find quite ironic, since I use the Rapido filament profile with the Elegoo.

[@uiopuiop3472]

i love reading the material safety datasheet for all of my liquids and aerosols!

[@uiopuiop3472]

it makes me feel like god

[@GiulianoMazzina]

I love layer lines. I print at .15 on my Prusa and .16 on my Bambu so they are pretty fine as it is and it can look great if you're print is well tuned.

[@chrissavage5966]

It’s a mystery why PVB hasn’t caught on….. I used to make my own PCBs. Started in the mid 70s using a resist pen. Then transfers & tape, then X-Y plotted masks on film and last DIY boards were made using laser printed film resist masks. Can’t see many folk today making the effort.

[@Matty-Realise]

Right so I never comment on videos but okay. Clicked on this video because I was bored, didn’t need to know the info but yeah, still after watching I didn’t need to know it but I guess it’s nice to know. All I can say is, I was laughing so hard omg, this was so funny, did anyone else find this guy super funny, I’m not sure if it was on purpose but I really liked it idk

[@TherapyWithWind]

Very familiar with a wire wrap tool, although I'm not certain where mine are currently hiding! Great and informative video as always, thank you!

[@christyler1647]

I appreciate your humor and thanks for the content. Very informative video!

[@the4thj]

I've been navigating through this digital wasteland trying to find your legendary 3D printing sagas. The algorithm’s about as useful as a chocolate fireguard. Honestly, I reckon it’s got less direction than a blindfolded homing pigeon in a hurricane. Your brilliance in turning plastic into pure comedy gold is the only thing worth my suffering here. It's like the system's been coded by a troop of tea-abstaining, humorless robots who wouldn’t know a good joke if it was printed in 3D and smacked them in the sensors. Your comments are the rare gems amidst the endless 'Recommended Videos' that are about as appealing as a soggy biscuit. I swear, trying to find your content in the chaos is like trying to print a masterpiece with a spool of tangled filament. But mate, your humor? That's the real high-quality PVB in a world of dodgy knock-offs. So keep those comments and videos coming. I'm here, navigating through KZbin's equivalent of the Bermuda Triangle, dodging digital detritus like it's my day job. Let's give this algorithm a run for its money, showing it that not all heroes wear capes - some wield 3D printers and a wicked sense of humor. Cheers to conquering the digital abyss, one layer at a time or knot!

[@paulmcewen7384]

I've printed a large pvb model with polymaker pvb. I smoothed it with 90% IPA spray coats with a spray bottle. I used a 0.6 as the model was huge, however the layer lines were 0.3 I believe. This took probably 30 coats to effectively smooth it. A very large pain in the ass

[@AiraBai]

The transparent prusa probably makes nice custom transparent cases for electronic devices, like creating see trough joycons.

[@gpweaver]

I use Mason jars to store my isopropyl alcohol for resin printing--the rubber seal on the lid works like a champ to keep the alcohol from evaporating (or absorbing water.) Not sure what they're called on your side of the pond, but basically, the square-ish jars like spaghetti sauce comes in, used in home canning.

[@GameArtsCafe]

Cool mist humidifier for your alcohol vapors, in a cylindrical container with 3 slow moving fans across from each other on a 45 degree angle for even application and a power bar that has a timer for consistent results.

[@Shazbat5]

Regarding getting vapor to condense on the part: Use a glass beaker without spout, with a lid. Load the part from the top, so the heavier vapor does not leak out during loading. warm the beaker with a reptile patch heater or something similar, to slightly above room temp (safety, y'all) say 45C. Put your part in the freezer and the alcohol sponge in the beaker for 30 minutes or so. Areas of the part that collect pools of cold air should be inverted. Uncover the beaker, lower the part onto the stand, cover the beaker, remove when finished.

[@richdobbs6595]

BTW, it is possible to buy denatured alcohol, which is anhydrous ethanol with additives that make it poisonous, bad-tasting, foul-smelling, and/or nauseating.

[@psxtuneservice]

I can buy food grade 100% I think used for extracting some parfumes?

[@TrishMeyer99]

Why buy denatured alcohol when you can buy Everclear. Same thing without the poison. The poison is added to avoid paying alcohol taxes.

[@richdobbs6595]

@@TrishMeyer99 You answered your own question. Alcohol taxes in the USA is something like 80% the cost of Everclear.

[@robviggers854]

The tool you showed was to separate the tracks on strip board, got a couple 25 years old. LOL

[@icefox13]

Concerning Ethanol, at least here in Germany we have "Brennspiritus" with >= 94% Ethanol. Some other molecules are added to make it unfit for consumption and therefore exempt from the high alcohol tax. Rather cheap to get.

[@FaenumVena]

Store the IPA in a jam jar! I keep one for soaking bearings etc in for cleaning, been sat here months untouched and no evaporation. Plus clean up the prints before you do anything else with them, pull off the worst of the strings and waft a pre heated heat gun over it to remove whats left.

[@fecacs9532]

PLA is soluble in both ethyl acetate and chloroform. But chloroform is hard to come by and dangerous. The surface becomes soft as a result of the treatment, but hardens again after the solvent evaporates. We can also make waterproof objects by brushing with a solvent. I made a water cooling block for an RX570 video card. I still use this now.

[@sitgesvillaapartmentneilsc7924]

Interesting , it would be quite easy to convert your cloche into a forced air vapour chamber, simply get hold of a small fan unit around 2 cm put that in the bottom along with the battery and switch or wire it into a old USB cable, assuming it's 5 V fan, drill some holes in the base of the cloche then seal the base with a piece of plastic or print something to cover it so it doesnt pull air in from outside. Hey presto one forced air smoothing chamber. It will speedup the smoothing time ten fold for sure.

[@crushingbass7131]

Here in the US you can purchase 99% ethanol at most liquor stores, in most states.

[@the_wretched]

You make Anarchy sound bad. 🤘🏼❤️🖤

[@bonovoxel7527]

I am interested as always but gotta say I love layer lines. If you can't defeat'em... I try to design objects where a 0.33mm thick line is good enough for surface details and take care of equalizing the flow preview to have it all smooth and...minecraft-ish but with a coherent surface. All a different matter when printing functional parts or highly detailed shapes, ofc.

[@Yomommashouse91169]

Breathing iso is fine. Fun fact, smelling iso is better at reducing nausea than most nausea meds. It’s used in hospitals everywhere.

[@802Garage]

The way you dispose of isopropyl alcohol... Go outside and toss it anywhere. It'll evap quickly. Nah, but for real. I appreciate all your safety concerns. It's just funny as a car guy who has been like elbow deep in open gas tanks to be super worried about a small glass of iso. Always better safe than sorry though. Fun video!

[@LostInTech3D]

Not here 🤣🤣 especially in winter

[@802Garage]

@@LostInTech3D Hahaha oh I get that. I was out snow blowing for about an hour today. I'm just south of the Canadian border in Vermont. That said, all it will do is melt some snow faster. Think of it this way, most windshield washer fluid is methanol or in some cases ethyl alcohol, and they just spray that crap everywhere! Hahaha. I still understand encouraging safety though.

[@psxtuneservice]

Dont smoke while doing so

[@carlosbrenes2139]

As a fun fact: You should use Vodka instead of Whisky. Vodka usually contains fewer additives and sugars compared to whisky, which makes it a better option for cleaning. Additives and sugars in whisky can leave residues on surfaces, making vodka a cleaner choice. (Also, the lower cost of cheap vodka compared to cheap whisky makes it a more economical choice for cleaning purposes. So, if you need an affordable and effective cleaning solution, vodka can be a great option)

[@tarakivu8861]

I got Eono PVB from Amazon. You have to dry the reels, preferably not with heat alone, better to store it in a box of silica for a week or at least some days. You have to keep it absolutely dry, probably also while printing, this stuff will dry your room.. but at what cost :D I smoothed using a spray-bottle and found issues.. my printer nozzle didnt print very even, so where small pockets formed at the surface (might have been still too wet) i got cavities and bubbles. Also, you probably also dont want too much to seep into the inside of an enclosed part as smoothing too fast will then put too much alcohol inside it, ruining it afterwards. Also best to hold the part in a way where the droplets can quickly drop off or dont bother too much.. maybe a quick high speed fan burst could help to get it off.. vapor smoothing probably avoids this.

[@rayzimmermin]

with IPA the more surface aria you give it the quicker it will evaporate so if you want to get rid of it quicker get large shallow pans to pore it in to evaporate away also if your painting the part the best way to get rid of layer lines is to use a good base coat that is made to fill imperfections

[@tophlaw4274]

thanks for the very informative vid! I never knew PVB even existed... may be interesting to play with (specially for making master copies that need to be smoothed before making a silicone mould from it). 🤔I'm curious if the PVB smoothing processes would still work with the more readily available 70% IPA, I imagine it wouldn't react as dramatically which could help prevent the dissolved PVB from getting too soft too quickly (unless the 30% water+stuff makes it swell). 👉also, with the vapor, I'd imagine using a larger container & adding a small battery powered fan would prevent the bottoms to become too saturated... just a thought. 🤓needless to say, it would be awesome if you could make a follow up vid.... cheers!

[@iamporto]

Polynaker used to have a vapor smoother exactly for this purpose. It worked reasonably well. And obviously they had filament for this. Just not sure if they are still supporting it.

[@LostInTech3D]

I think it's just too expensive (the machine) for most people who want to use it casually

[@iamporto]

@@LostInTech3D absolutely agree. I used to have it and eventually sold it. Unless you have a very specific need to smooth things, the novelty wears out real quick.

[@DonBarthel]

PVB is used to bond glass layers to make laminated safety glass.

[@smokeduv]

You can totally buy quite pure ethanol in some pharmacies, but it's denatured alcohol, which is 96% ethanol with a bit of some nasty stuff to make it undrinkable. You can also buy non-denatured alcohol which is also 96% but without additional stuff and that one is usually more expensive because taxes, but it's a bit more difficult to find. I don't know in Europe, but here you can. You can't find 99% ethanol in stores not because it's prohibited, but because ethanol mixes with water and it's very difficult to get it over 96% unless you take the water with molecular sieves or some sort of dessicant and only bought as a chemical reagent, which makes it even more expensive and it will also get to 96% rapidly because of the water in the atmosphere. Anyway, I started to use ethanol instead of isopopyl because i don't like the smell, specially with resin printing

[@LostInTech3D]

Yeah I would definitely go with that if I did it again 😂

[@magfal]

​@@LostInTech3D There's always moonshine as a less legal option. Here in Norway it's colloquially called 9-6 due to the 96% practical limit for destillation.

[@slacksthegreat]

osha would be proud of you talking about the msds.

[@LostInTech3D]

*HSE

[@slacksthegreat]

@@LostInTech3D US Americans

[@LostInTech3D]

😛

[@3dtechnologies153]

Does printing in PVB release toxic fumes?

[@LostInTech3D]

Inevitably yes, but I get the impression it's nominally no worse than pla or pva

[@davydatwood3158]

Printing in *anything* releases both toxic fumes and microplastics. Most people just don't notice with PLA, but who knows what the effect will be in twenty years? Personally, I stay the hell away from my printer when it's running no matter what plastic is in it.

[@BryanPaceP1]

In America you can buy 99% ethanol. It’s called Everclear.

[@LAZER1986]

There's also SBS aka Watson, that can be smoothed with lemonen aka sticker remover

[@niedzwiedz5406]

Here in Poland you can buy 95% ethanol at liquor stores and 99,9% at specialist shops or online.

[@mrnlce7939]

Isn't this just Polymaker, Polysmooth? Polysher is the machine they sell to smooth it. How does it react to acetone (or other chemicals)? Great video. Keep up the good work.

[@LostInTech3D]

yes polysmooth is PVB. I have no idea about acetone actually!

[@Liberty4Ever]

For the time, hassle and mess, I think I'll resin print parts if the layer lines are problematic. Maybe PVB would be good on a large format FDM printer to print lampshades and similar items.

[@theelmonk]

You can also get IPA as an aerosol. Might be worth a try.

[@aserta]

I mean, you can print without visible layers, you just need a very well tuned machine. -dampened stepper motors with a clean output -a printer bolted to the table and supported at the top (if it's like my cr10, i have a piece of packing foam, cut from a computer case shipping box, that's cut such that it nests between the printer and a cabinet above it. It's not 100% rigid, rather it takes the approach of "soaking up" the vibrations. -good clean nozzle. you need to make your own nozzles for that or buy a ton of them and make sure they are well machined -good platen to nozzle calibration -the belts shouldn't be slack, but they shouldn't be tightened to congo drums either, especially when you have a dampener frame between your stepper motor and the frame. Super tighening your belts damages your printer and creates unwanted vibration transmission -obviously a good slicer -more lines in all curves. if a circle has sides, your computer fu needs polishing -clean filament -quality tubing. And this is the starting stuff. To get an idea of how fine the prints get, i once needed an extension for the remote activation cord of a Praktica MTL3. The OG cable is short and long ones are super difficult to find. That fit, that is. I found a 5 meter cord from another camera, but the plunger was too long for the MTL3, so i took the button off and printed an extended one. The threads are less than 0.5mm between pitches, super fine. The print was so smooth that you can't even tell it's a print. You'd think it's cast and machined. The whole part is about 10mm OD and 21mm tall, printed with no raft, just a sacrificial sanding surface to account for the inevitable elephant foot that happens when you print with cheaper filament that doesn't have the exact specs. This an OG CR-10 printer running on the OG, factory shipped program, OG bearings, motors, just about everything except my modifications are original from all those years ago. The better you setup your machine, the better the prints are. Out of the box, all printers are rubbish unless you pay 50k, and even then you should usually have the company rep drop by and do the setup proper for you and even then you can optimize. I remember when we got our first printer ages before, when the patents were still locked. The rep finished their work, was happy with the setup and our engineer looked at it, scoffed and by the next week the printer was running even better than factory because she reinforced the structure of the machine and cast a concrete slab into the bottom of the cabinet the machine was sat upon.

[@tarakivu8861]

Pused layer printing is that.. layers, so in the end you always have layers. If you have applications where layers would be very bad (e.g. fungi and bacteria being between layers), you need to smoothen it.

[@Daniel-Marson]

Im totally new to 3d printing, i bought a Ender 3 v3 ke, because its entry level and supports 5 or 6 different filaments and i can print from my phone, laptops/ROG Ally or usb stick. I was going to go with an Ender that can print nearly 12 inches but it only supported usb flash drives. The v3 ke had a lot of features for a really great price. If i like 3d printing i can then get a better printer later on.. now i just need something cool to print lol

[@eyesuc]

This seems a lot more cumbersome than SBS. You can smooth it really easily by brushing on Limonene. It also prints clean and doesn’t absorb moisture. Is SBS not available anywhere outside South Africa?

[@LostInTech3D]

I think it's pretty equivalent, but SBS is definitely hard to get hold of here. I might try to get some.

[@Biped]

abs and acetone all the way. I dont think a pair of gloves and some ventilation is that much of a hassle and... it really produces beautiful results

[@mildonado]

layer lines are beautiful

[@CrackpotCreations]

"You can't just put it back in the bottle" Just buy a full bottle, mark it with a marker pen and keep tipping it back in until the IPA is too contaminated to use. Same when I clean my resin prints in the ultrasonic, just have a bottle for each thing you clean and you don't need to worry about contamination, much better than throwing it away.

[@Catfish4855]

Wire wrapping tool. Used it a few times in Ham Radio wiring.

[@RFC3514]

Actually, no. It's a stripboard cutter. Similar, though.

[@sennheiser1986]

You can only distill ethanol/water mixture up to 96% abv. In Belgium you can just buy this stuff in the supermarket. it's very expensive though.

[@productsofoutstandingperfo3564]

I have matt fillament that doesn't show layer lines. Glossy means more visible layer lines, which also shows imperfection more. If you are American then just throw the isopropyl in your huge v12 engine fuel tank.

[@f0ksie]

The absolute fear over isopropyl alcohol in this video, as if it were the most dangerous material known to man.

[@LostInTech3D]

The absolute overreaction over reading out an MSDS.

[@fricki1997]

The stuff seems to be quite expensive here, like over 40€ per 4kg roll. When you want vapour smoothing, there's already ABS which is a lot cheaper but admittedly needs an enclosure for medium and large prints.

[@3DJapan]

I still see printed layer lines. The alcohol smoothing removes them (and detail).

[@MrYuriMan]

I used smoothed PVB (dipping method) when making forms for silicone molds.

[@Donorcyclist]

You crack me up with how cautious you are about alcohol! But with as much as you've spilt in this video, maybe you should be... 😂. Thanks for educating is on PVB!

[@LostInTech3D]

Don't print and drive!

[@Donorcyclist]

​@@LostInTech3DSave a life! 😂

[@marks47]

Not to disrespect any sponsors or anything, but one of the brand names for this is also Polysmooth

[@LostInTech3D]

There's no sponsors being offended, I showed polymaker at the beginning 😁

[@Alluvian567]

On my gen 1 lulzbot mini I used to print primarily ABS and did acetone vapor smoothing a fair amount. I will say from this video that seemed a lot more effective in terms of coating and WAY faster both in the vapor 'immersion' times and especially in the re-curing times after the vapor was removed. A few hours was enough for the entire process typically. This material seems to be just as annoying to print as ABS, different issues, but issues nonetheless. I would take some warping or splitting over a clogged hotend any day. What are the print vapors like for PVB? One of the main reasons I stopped ABS is that I am typically in the room with the printer and I didn't want to keep printing with those vapors around all the time likely slowly killing me.

[@LostInTech3D]

it varies by reel, the red stuff was unpleasant but the prusa stuff had no odour at all. I dont think any were as dangerous as ABS, based on the MSDS, for printing.

[@chrislong3938]

I haven't seen a wirewrap tool in decades!!! LOL!

[@crawlerin]

Doesn't Polymaker make Polysher for diffusing mist?

[@hhaste]

Pouring iso down the drain is perfectly fine, as long as it's diluted with water

[@ethzero]

_"moderately non-dangerous chemicals"_ 👍😬

[@jesseboise6162]

Take a look at SBS filament. Its got strength, impact resistance, and it dissolves in d-limolene, and prints like PLA (like PVB, too).

[@MrTypowy1]

99% ethanol in Poland you can buy in every grocery store 🙈 also used for cooking. And if it is for technical use (artificially poisoned) you can buy online and get delivered if you can pay for it, I used to work selling it online and minimum quantity was 5L, 30L max via UPS (per package ) 🙈

[@pik33100]

95%. ("spirytus rektyfikowany"). Also "denaturat", that in good. old days was 94-95% but now you have to read the label carefully, as you can buy something that has only 60% of alcohol in it

[@NASIOPAMATA75]

An idea: what about an ultrasonic humidifier? The mist they produce is much more uniform than what a spray can make. They are cheap enough for testing.

[@LostInTech3D]

That's pretty much what polymaker made but I don't think they were that popular

[@amadensor]

You can buy high concentration ethanol. It's called Everclear