How to increase realism in Virtual Instruments using Superior Drummer 3 (Let them bleed!)

One of the most underrated and less discussed features of Toontrack's Superior Drummer 3 is the option to enable microphone bleeding on every track. However, this feature is unique amongst all VST - and in this video I demonstrate how mic bleeding will enhance the realism and natural feeling of your (digital) drum sounds. And why you should embrace it!
Check out all my Superior Drummer 3 videos:
• Superior Drummer 3
My gear (Amazon & Thomann Partner links)
Drumsticks:
Vic Firth Jojo Mayer Signature: amzn.to/2lmav1h
Headphones:
Shure CL215 In-Ears: amzn.to/2C2AcPv
Hardware:
Tama Speedcobra HP901LN Single Pedal: www.thomannmus...
Interfaces / Headphone Amp:
Roland Quad-Capture (Recording): amzn.to/2zFvvoN
Behringer U-Phoria UMC202HD (Mixing): amzn.to/2pN1cx0
PreSonus HP-4 Headphone Amp: amzn.to/2C3x2v1
Monitor speakers:
Monkey Banana Gibbon 5: www.thomannmus...
DAW Controller:
PreSonus Faderport: www.thomannmus...
External drives for samples:
LaCie Thunderbolt 2TB: amzn.to/2DnCPrG
Cameras:
Rollei Action Cam: amzn.to/2zHuuMY
Canon EOS60D: amzn.to/2pO4DU6
iPhone 6s: amzn.to/2DpEe0F
Toontrack Superior Drummer 3: www.thomann.de...

[@thomasfokas]

I like how everyone was trying to clean up / gate mic bleed in the 80s and 90s and 00s and now everyone realizes that bleed is what makes a kit sound real and "live".

[@MikeLuke]

Hi Thomas, well, there are occasions where I still use gates on drums. Not every acoustic drum set is recorded that well like Superior Drummer. And as I said, it depends on the style and the genre. But you are right: it’s the mix bleed that makes drums sound alive.

[@DrJMoLac]

Thank you! I've been working with SD for a week after a few weeks with EZ Drummer. The bleed was difficult to wrap my head around. This video really tied it all together after discovering it a few nights ago. This video was well organized, thought out and easy to understand. Thanks again!

[@MikeLuke]

Cheers Jason! Never hesitate to raise a question in case you wanna know anything specific.

[@MartinvonBargen]

I've just crossgraded to SD3 and discovered the bleed enable option. Am currently building my own kit and this video has been invaluable so far :)

[@MikeLuke]

Glad you liked it, Martin! Thanks for watching

[@rhythmantic]

The final result sounds warm and punchy. Very detailed mixing. Thank you Mike for sharing this method of mixing.

[@cptnwallace80]

Thank you so much for all your information and efforts to explain this beast of a program. Very helpful!

[@xplanet2112]

Raws of this song are available on the Cambridge Mixing Secrets library. 👍🏼

[@MikeLuke]

Yes.

[@djGreenALERT]

Those toms sound superb!

[@Voxtender]

Interesting approach. The Pearl mimic pro module (slate) has a similar approach with output routing. Definitely more realistic mixing experience.

[@BobSchoepenjr]

Very useful

[@jeffblack5024]

I’m not a drummer and not used to live drum recording either. For me, mic bleeding is a fault you’d want to get rid of (in fact, I’ve heard stories of some producers like the late Martin Hannett making the drummer play each drum individually!). So using the sound creatively in SD3 is new to me. Would you just leave bleed levels at the default, or are there some you’d want to turn down? I’ve just bought the whole SD3 library on an SSD so I’d like to get the best out of that 230 Gb.

[@MikeLuke]

Hi Jeff, It depends. Mic bleeding is not bad by default. My point here was to demonstrate that the software allows you to use that in a creative and musical way. Nowadays drums are almost anytime clean, over-processed. People got used to that kind of drum sound. And I know from statistics that 90% of people buying drum sample software use it for metal / hard rock / progressive. However, especially SD3 sounds so realistically that it can be used for every genre. On a lot of recordings of the last decades, the producer even let the band play together in one room so you even hear the bleeding of the piano in the mic of the bass and vice versa. Which will lead to a more „glued“ sound and that the band played as a band and that it’s not 8 different performances mixed together. To answer your question: the good thing about that feature in SD3 is that you have full control, which you wouldn’t have in real live recordings. A use case could be that you just enable the bleeding of the toms in all other tom microphones. Or raising the volume of the snare in the overheads and/or muting just the hi-hats because they sound too harsh. Mixing engineers often don’t like bleeding because it creates trouble while mixing. If you hear a lot of cymbals in the snare and Tom mics, it’s tough to mix, because with every decision you take on the snare, it will affect the cymbals as well. But maybe you work on a singer/songwriter ballad and you want to consciously create an intimate atmosphere - then you probably just use the overheads and maybe just the snare and kick mic. In the end, it’s all about musical creativity.

[@jeffblack5024]

Thanks, Mike. I’ll experiment further.

[@biekanez1]

Great video and it was very helpful Mike. I already noticed during one of my latest recordings that it was not possible to get the Hihat sound more to the right side. I never thought about the bleeding of the other mics that that could be the cause. Again e new thing to experiment with!🍺🤛

[@MikeLuke]

Hi Rob, well, the most obvious solution would be to first pan the hats the way you want them to be. ;-)

[@gutekzpoligonu]

I just found this video Mike, and as always great job! QUESTION: Is this mic bleeding is possible in other older EZX like "Post Rock" or "Alt Rock" when You'll lunch it in SD3 and make all updates, or it's just for a stuff recorded for SD2 or SD3?

[@MikeLuke]

Hi! No, just the libraries for SD2 and SD3 offer that mic bleeding option unfortunately.

[@MichaelJohnsonProductions]

Great video sir. One day I'll use this. :)

[@DamageInc86]

So would you say the default setting that are just there if you turn the bleed on are a decent sound if you just want a very small change in sound and don't want to mess with the settings all day?

[@MikeLuke]

Of course, you can just go for the default setting. Depends on the genre, but most listeners wouldn’t notice any difference

[@alphoc9201]

Snare sound is very beautiful. So do you use offset for latency problem ? When I use multi out Reaper, there is a big latency between the snare and the ambiance mic. It is easier to use sd3 's time offset then to put a - js : time delay- plugin on Reaper ambiance insert for tighter snare/kik etc strokes.

[@MikeLuke]

I don’t have any latency issues, so I don’t use any plugins or processing to fix it. When I record, I usually have just one stereo output coming from SD3 into Reaper, because I just need the MIDI data. When I start to mix, I separate the outputs the way I need them for my mix.

[@alphoc9201]

By latency I mean time delaying. ie the time delay between the snare and the ambiance microphone. You can take care of it; save single snare stroke as wav with individual channels as multi-out. Then zoom horizontally to the snare channel. Make a time selection between the beginning of the snare channel signal and the ambiance channel. Enter the selected field in the Reaper as the sample value in the offset section of SD3.

[@eDrumsInANutshell]

Hi Mike! Somehow, this morning, on the road to work, I was thinking like: Hm, if the bleed contains also maybe responses from the other kitparts like tom humming in case of hitting the snare or snare buzz when hitting the toms or bass drum, there need to be bleed mic samples for each kit setup. So my guess was, without further testing, right now, that the other kit parts were mechanically muted during recording of the samples and its just like, how sounds the sampled kit part through an other mic on the kit. Which is fine, but for a moment, I was like... wait...heeww? Oh, hmm, ahhh, ok... Any other considerations, guys?

[@eDrumsInANutshell]

And, if I am correct this will be the tiny but sometimes noticeable difference to real recordings. Right? Or am I off the track?

[@eDrumsInANutshell]

Hm. I tested with the SD3 core library. So, they recorded the bleed e.g. for the bass drum 14x26 Ludwig Classic 3ply with "only" a certain set. With muted bass drum channel, you can hear on the tom channel, the bass drum together with the excited toms, even though there are no tom instruments set up. I mean that's completely ok, but that was the thinh that hurts my brain when first I tried to get into the bleeding settings. Like... That's not it, how to dial in the exited drum parts like ringing toms, wires etc. I mean maybe there is a difference between bleeding and x-talk? Anyway, these libraries are really detailed enough. But that is what happens, when a physicist starts to think. Now I hurt your brains?

[@leemichaels406]

All these are great videos Mike ! Thanks for helping me get moving on SD3 so well. If I could ask a question... Am I correct in thinking that you do not go to separate DAW channels with the individual drums and you are just using the mixer inside SD3 and then only 2 channels to the main DAW? Thanks!

[@MikeLuke]

Thanks a lot Lee! Well, no, usually I go the exact opposite. I actually send all channels separately to my DAW and don‘t use the mixer in SD3.

[@ractorstudios]

Its sounds like putting on a few rooms mics. I was thinking of adding it then doing what needs to be done to minimize the bleed. Even in metal it can help alot. I wonder if you can print just the bleed into its on track

[@l.enriquelopez]

Do you need to download all the 200-something GB to use the bleed feature?

[@MikeLuke]

Not all, but the majority. A big chunk of the download are the room mics, the other one is the bleed.

[@Ma66oto]

Hi Mike, you mentioned multiple times that this doesn't apply to metal. Since I'm mainly a metal drummer, I was wondering what would be the correct approach? Maybe even a video if you have the time. Thanks, your videos are really helpful!

[@MikeLuke]

Hey Jeffrey, well, of course you can use this approach even for metal. However, in metal you usually want clean, punchy drums that cut through loud walls of guitars. This mic bleeding effect I talked about here is meant to add character & natural sound that doesn’t sound like clean samples. In metal, samples are used consciously though. 😉 Creating a metal drum sound is more a question of the right processing.

[@Ma66oto]

@@MikeLuke Thanks for answering, Mike!

[@DamageInc86]

​@@MikeLukeI'd say that's only true of modern over-produced metal that all sounds the same, and wayyyyy over triggered clicky kicks. I still really want my kits to sound real. Just a touch of clicking sound. Kind of like how old thrash bands sound. Not overly produced. But still enough production to sound good.

[@Schodemeiss]

Crazy question - which headphones are you using in this video? They look awesome. Do you use them for mixing and / or recording?

[@MikeLuke]

Hi Andrew. Those are the Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro - I use them just for mixing. For recording / playing drums I have in-ears from Shure CL215.

[@Schodemeiss]

Mike Luke Thanks buddy. Great work on the videos!! Learnt tonnes! Do you ever do mixing work for other bands and things?

[@MikeLuke]

Yes, I do. I have some projects running currently, but nothing to release yet. ;)

[@Kmachman72]

I realize this post is all about mixing in the studio, but would you do this mic bleed trick for live performance as well?

[@MikeLuke]

Depends on the gig and the genre you’re playing. If you do some singer-songwriter stuff and anything where the drums don’t need to pop that much, you can do that. For anything harder like rock, metal, progressive ...I’d go the „clean“ way. I mean, that’s the purpose of using samples, isn’t it? Or just dial in a touch of mic bleed on certain instruments. But on stage I’d always prefer to use as least RAM and CPU power as possible, so I’d rather go the clean way all the time.

[@earldrum]

Mike your passion for recording comes through in these videos. You have some great information here for drummers learning about recording and using samples. What acoustic triggering program do use to trigger your samples from accounting drums? I have done this in Logic using there trigger program, but I know there are better programs. For my drum videos I never trigger samples, but maybe I should try it some day. Keep up the great work.

[@MikeLuke]

Earl Bennett - earldrum Hi Earl, thanks for your comment. The software I use is called Superior Drummer. It captures the MIDI data my drum module generates while I play my electronic drum set and „translates“ those MIDI data into sounds.

[@earldrum]

Mike would you use the same software to trigger midi notes from a multi-track acoustic drum performance?

[@MikeLuke]

No, probably not. There’s a lot of software out there that „translates“ acoustic drums into MIDI information, often even for free within your DAW. Usually you do this afterwards and then choose the samples in case you want to replace or enhance your acoustic drums. However, for your purposes you may check Trigger2 from Slate Digital. It’s the industry standard software for drum replacement or enhancements and comes with a lot of samples. Creating MIDI is usually more complex over all, because at the end of the day you‘ll need some sort of virtual instruments anyway. The advantage of using something like Superior Drummer 3 is that it provides tons of articulations to mirror your nuanced playing quiet well, whereas samples are usually one-shot samples that cannot capture all subtleties of a human performance.

[@earldrum]

Thanks Mike! Great answer!

[@joaopedrocanassamontanher2461]

Hey mike, thank you so much for the lesson, but I got ask, is it possible to get the hi hat and ride bleeding out of the other mics if I'm recording the cymbals and drums in different tracks ?

[@MikeLuke]

Of course, you can adjust all mic bleeding to your taste.

[@ZaxDrumsandMore]

Really interesting video Mike!!

[@PaulRoseGuitar]

Very effective

[@najinelson6742]

Very good and interesting video

[@MikeLuke]

Thanks a lot! 🙏

[@martwellsd]

Hello Mike. I saw the video you posted on 65 Drums and I agree with you 100%. I have been trying to get the latency down as much as possible and I have been looking online at all the videos and the PreSonus AudioBox 96 seems to solve the problem. I saw that you posted a image of the PreSonus to get the latency as low as possible. my question is: what external interface or sound card would you recommend to get the absolute least latency? would you recommend any other or with this Presonus do the trick? i am using a Roland Edrums with Alesis Trigger IO. a fast computer and Superior drummer 2.0 also the Asio driver download.. but still have tiny latency there... Thank you so much for your help! hope to solve the latency issue with a external sound card interface..

[@MikeLuke]

Hi Martin, the interfaces with the lowest latencies are usually from RME, but they are pricey. I think your Alesis I/O is the bottleneck in your chain, it’s pretty bad in terms of latency. When you use an audio interface, you won’t need this anyway. Just connect your module to the interface via MIDI cable, then the interface with your computer and you’re ready to go.

[@martwellsd]

ok I will try that. I have the Roland TD12. also have the Roland MIDI to USB for the computer but never got that working so I just bought the Trigger IO. I will get the Roland going to see if the latency reduces. I will let you know how it goes! Thank you so much!

[@martwellsd]

ok sorry to be such a pain but it doesnt work. here is what i am doing 1. TD12 module 2. Setup 3. F1 MIDI 4. F2 GLOBAL Soft Thru OFF and Local Control OFF 5. MIDI OUT Roland UM-ONE Midi out to USB into computer 6. Superior Drummer 2.0 (Optiions Tab on computer) 7. Audio Device click Asio 4ALL 8. MIDI DEVICE click UM-ONE check in the box on the screen and click OK 9. Controller click EDRUM 10 Mapping bar click, Presets click, MIDI ckick, Note mapping click, EDRUM click. and basically the Roland TD!" doesnt send the signal to the computer I am guessing.. if I click on the mouse on the drumset in Superior Drummer it sounds perfect.. but if I hit the drum pad nothing happens. it worked with the Trigger IO only it had latency.. am I missing something in the Module? thank you and sorry for taking your time.

[@MikeLuke]

Well, I never used Superior Drummer 2.0 with Windows, so I never had to install Asio4ALL. But from what I know, you need to assign your Roland UM-One as a MIDI device WITHIN your ASIO4All settings, I think. Otherwise your computer or the software does not know that it should expect this data coming from there ;)

[@martwellsd]

Thanks Mike. in the ASIO settings there isnt much you can do , at least to what i can see in the window. I have clicked every possibility inside Superior Drummer and it still doesnt work.. Is there a way to not use ASIO and use something else? just to make it receive the signal from the UM-ONE.. would it be good to make a video of what I am doing and send you the link?? maybe you can see something that is not turned on or something... for more than 3 years I have never gotten this thing working because of exactly this same reason.. and ion Toontrack there is no phone or human to call.. HATE that about that company.. no customer service. let me know and I will upload a video for you to see. thank you so much for taking your time to help me.

[@SideGateStudios]

"The Butterfly Effect" Sweet!!!! "Not the Australian one" Fuck

[@learnngwell]

Master Teacher. Thanks, Mike!

[@MikeLuke]

Oh, too kind ;) I just want to share knowledge as much as possible. Knowledge is useless if you keep it on your own, isn’t it?

[@RudyMalik77]

Mike, thanks for the help so far. Appreciate it! All your advice has helped me get SD3 up and running. First drum cover vid with SD3 here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pnPSiaWqhL2DZq8 .

[@MikeLuke]

Hey Rudy, I've commented your performance. Very well done, my friend.

[@lamosca2167]

Damn, you look a lot like lucho jara from chile haha. Great video 👍

[@najinelson6742]

If toontrack was a honest, fair and good company they would give you a 14 day full demo. They do not, because they know very well, that almost no one would buy it. fter two days diving into Superior Drummer 3 and comparing it to other plugins, I have to say regarding GB size, promotion/hype and price and sound quality, it is one of the worst plugins ever been released. I would really like to hear how someone could come close to the qualiy of SSD5, BFD or AD with SD3 using the stock drums kits without using hardware!?

[@ahmetmertpolat46]

I used SP3, power drum kit and addictive drums 2. To be honest AD2 is the best for being simple but realistic. And smaller size.