How to Install a Wilwood Dual Bowl Master Cylinder

[@MK4PERFORMANCE]

Another great project Andy. Working through my build at the same time as you and making similar decisions on parts for mine. Keeping the problems you're facing with old lines breaking on removal reminds us all of the struggle and love of working on these classics. Thanks for not editing that out!

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Haha, I need to edit out a few things, I don't want to get in trouble for language. :) I kind of wish I had filmed that part where the line broke as it would have shown how easy it can be to ruin old lines. I just got in a hurry and figured no one would care about unscrewing lines from these parts so I didn't think it would need to be in the video. Oh well, maybe next time. :)

[@josemedeiros007]

Great job making the video and installation tips Andy. I had my brakes go out on me in 1980 on my former 1965 Mustang C Code Fastback, somehow the front rubber brake line going to the front drivers side drum brakes rubbed a hole in it against my tire, I was very lucky not to crash my car, as I first noticed it coming off the free way and downshifted and pulled on the emergency brake. After that I decided to upgrade my brakes and use a dual reservoir brake master cylinder, and found front disks from a wrecked 1970 Mustang Mach 1, and used a ford racing adjustable proportioning valve, and Earls Stainless steel flexible brake lines that I had to adapt, and had to learn how to make a double flair, I wish we had such video's back then.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Yeah, it’s crazy how useful KZbin videos are and how much we rely on them. 🙂

[@garyhamlin8885]

Nice work! Wilwood has great customer service. I did this swap when I added front disks to my 64.5. also changed out the brake lines. Yes that distribution block is a pain!

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Yeah, it's good thing I get to edit out all the nice things I had to say about the distribution block. :)

[@ROADBURN66]

Your videos are great . Can not thank you enough . I hope KZbin takes care of you & eventually you make enough from them to purchase yourself a Shelby because you deserve it . Keep up the good work .😁

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Thanks for the feedback and support! :)

[@SmackeysGarage]

Nice work on the master cylinder. I hate working in that area because it is so tight! I bet it's going to feel even better braking now.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

I need the weather to get a little better before I can really dial it in, then I'll be able to know how much better it will be. :)

[@peterlopez8044]

Great information on the video. Good thing I watched the entire video to confirm the 15/16 bore size! Thanks for the heads up regarding the residual valve

[@AndyKruseChannel]

I’d recommend watching the full video anyways, but my reasons may not align with yours. 😁

[@peterlopez8044]

@@AndyKruseChannel Did you ever get around to bleeding the brakes?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Yes, but I had to wait for a friend to come over and help. I've tried using things like the Mity-vac bleeder system, but it just wasn't as good as having someone there to help pump the brakes. :)

[@alexc414]

So one thing I noticed while installing mine. The instructions on the Wilwood say to make sure that the master cylinder piston bottoms out before running into the floor. Because of this I had to extend the piston. Thank you for the video, gave me the false confidence to do this myself 😂

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Um.... you're welcome?

[@Mike-sh2dg]

That wilwood setup is slick! Look on the bright side, the line you broke is the easiest to replace on the car 😀

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Yeah, it could have been way worse. Replacing either of the two other lines would have required ordering parts and waiting. Although, the weather is not cooperating right now, so I guess it doesn't matter if the car sits in the garage. :)

[@cbrSpeedster1]

Nice video... i already installed a Wilwood kit on my Chevelle but watched to see how others did it. Fyi, To bleed brakes yourself get a pneumatic brake bleeder.. its really easy to do... Also, you may have wanted to get the right side proportion valve bracket to have better access to the lines...

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Yeah, I had one of those pneumatic bleeders (Mityvac unit) and it wasn't great. I struggled to get the air out as when I finally had a friend come over and help, I found more air in the brake lines. Not sure what you mean about the Prop Valve, it's on the right side. Plus, this is not something that I'll be adjusting daily as once I dial it in, I'm not really going to get back in there and fiddle with it. :)

[@65sohc]

I found on my 66 Mustang with Wilwood master/proportioning valve I had to open the valve pretty much to the max to minimize (though not eliminate) rear lockup.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Yeah, I'm hoping to dial in my valve soon. The weather hasn't been warm enough to get my tires to stick and see where I need to adjust the front and rear. :)

[@ripr7248]

Hey andy fantastic upfrade Am looking at purchasing the exact same master but was considering the 7/8 bore . How did you like the change and pedal feel? Was it a huge improvement

[@AndyKruseChannel]

I don't think most people are going to feel the difference between 7/8 and 15/16 bore. If someone was told the difference, they could probably feel it. The problem I am running into is I have changed so much of this car so quickly that I don't get a lot of seat time between upgrades, and so it can be difficult to feel the difference in upgraded components. But the car is loads better than it was a year ago and it is getting more fun to drive each time I head out. :)

[@leofrac435]

I have a 65 mustang 289 power drum brake power steering single reservoir. I want to put a dual reservoir in and converted to disc brake in the front but I can’t find a kit for a V-8 that will fit even with using the smaller 7 inch power brake booster. How come you’re using it or running non power brakes

[@AndyKruseChannel]

These cars don't need power brakes, and I prefer manual brakes on this classic car. These cars are light weight, which helps, but manual brakes helps in the connection between the driver and the car. I had power brakes on my first Mustang, it was an Auto, but my second Mustang didn't have them and I preferred it that way. Not sure why you're having trouble finding a dual bowl MC that fits with a power brake booster, but the V8 part shouldn't play a role in it. I put the OEM-looking Dual Bowl in my first Mustang along with the power booster, everything fit. The only issue you might run into is finding a pushrod that is the correct length, but they sell adjustable length units, so that shouldn't be an issue either. :)

[@grant3049]

Great video, thanks! Especially helpful since this is my next upgrade along with the Wilwood front disc conversion.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Fantastic! Those front discs will be a great addition to your car. I've got a video on the Wilwood Brake install too, you should check it out. :)

[@grant3049]

@@AndyKruseChannel Haha, I already have ;) I need to re-watch your install video for the T-5 conversion because that's on the horizon as well.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

@@grant3049 Awesome, that's my second favorite upgrade to these cars. Good luck!!

[@1Coolbanana]

Nice, love your work. Ive got a 70 Torino and have factory single piston caliper discs on the front and later model Ford single piston calipers on the rear on a 9" Im hoping that a 15/16th Wilwood will work for this application. Do you know what you pedal ratio is? Mine is 6:1. Cheers 👍👍 Any updates? How are the brakes now, how do they feel, how much pedal travel have you got? Have they got plenty of power and hows the pedal effort? Thanks

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Thanks! My pedal ratio is also 6:1, it seems like that is a very common ratio in lots of the cars from this era. Brakes are good so far, I still need to fiddle with my brake bias, I feel like I could find a better setting if I took a little more time. I would like to go with larger brakes, but that forces a wheel change and I've not found a 17" or larger wheel that I'm happy with, yet. :)

[@1Coolbanana]

@@AndyKruseChannel Thanks for the reply. How much pedal travel do you get with this setup. Ive currently got power brakes (bell crank setup) but they are crap and too much clutter so thats why I want to go manual. Hopefully something that works the first time. I dont mind the extra pedal effort or travel if it works well.

[@FootageFactory]

Though I feel bad that you had to do extra work, I needed to see how that likne was made and routed. So thank you to the Mustang gods for letting this line break so I could see how its fixed!! What length little lines did you get, the ones you bent into place? Looks like 5 inch ish, but I just wanted to see if you knew exactly and where didja get them if you happen to remember?! Also thanks for putting part numbers!! If I have aftermarket rear disks Im assuming I dont need the residual valve? Nevermind you answered if I just went further in the vid

[@AndyKruseChannel]

I have in my notes that I purchased two 8" and two 12" brake lines for this install. You can always do some fancy bending if they're too long, but not so much if they're too short. :)

[@FootageFactory]

@@AndyKruseChannel you are the man!

[@filipeneto1970]

Great video and good explanation, but I have a question. Is it possible to use this Wilwood master cylinder with the stock proportion valve and without the 10 psi residual valve? In the stock master cylinder, the stock proportion valve also reduces pressure for the rear brakes, or am I wrong? In your case, you didn't have a proportion valve but a distributor block, and you then placed the 10psi residual valve. If you could clarify this issue for me I would be grateful, as I just bought a Wilwood master cylinder like yours, but I was thinking of installing it with the stock proportion valve without residual block. Thank you!

[@AndyKruseChannel]

To the best of my knowledge, there is no residual valve in the stock master cylinder. The stock unit is a single bowl, which carries its own deficiencies, but there's nothing in there as a residual valve because it cannot differentiate between the front and rear brakes. Further, the stock distro block does nothing more than split the brake fluid evenly between the front and rear. You can use the stock distro block (but you'll need to plug the rear line output as the rear brake line will now plumb into the new master cylinder), but the advantage of the Wilwood distribution block I use is the ability to dial in the bias of front vs rear brakes. This is great when you have discs and drum brakes on the car, you can adjust how much work you want one of them to do. For the residual valve, it keeps 10 lbs of pressure in the rear brake lines so they can engage quicker when stepping on the brake pedal. The residual pressure in the line doesn't hurt anything and it doesn't prematurely wear the drum brakes as it's not enough to engage the brakes. Drum brakes are inherently slower to react to pressing the brake pedal when compared to disc brakes, so the valve keeps some pressure in the line so they can engage quicker. For those that don't want to upgrade the drums or are not able to at the time, the residual valve slightly bumps up their usability.

[@pauleggert1863]

Great video, I have a similar setup. You'll love the new pedal feel and response 👍

[@AndyKruseChannel]

I hope so, I just wish the weather would cooperate so I can get the car out of the garage. :)

[@pauleggert1863]

@@AndyKruseChannel I understand I'm in Minnesnowda lol. Still doing some upgrades to my 66 right now though.

[@arnoldmecham7856]

I have the same Wilwood Master, Proportioning valve set up . What are the generic universal lines and adapter union sizes and did you use? I don't see those lines in your Amazon links in your video description. I want to hook mine up basically like yours but I don't know what to get or if all brake lines are the same size and thread pitch for Fords, Chevys, or Mopars or do I need to get specific lines and threads?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

I purchased those generic brake lines from NAPA, the size of the threaded end is 3/16" and it will say that on the label. Be careful, I had to select the lines my self because the dude behind the counter couldn't tell the difference between standard and metric threaded ends. Ugh. Anyway, they sell lots of lengths, maybe buy something a pinch longer as you can bend them around to fit your application, but if they're too short..... :)

[@SlowInFastOut1776]

Showing me ways to spend even more of my money. 😂 Looks good, making lines is a pain, yours came out nice!

[@AndyKruseChannel]

That's why I am here! :)

[@robertwirth8588]

This video is so helpful. I am about to install this same MC with all 4 disk brakes. I had the original single bowl MC that was used with 4 drum. Will I be able to use all my original brake lines, they seem to be in good shape.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Yes, you can use your existing lines. Good luck, you've got this!! :)

[@AmpasaurusWrecks]

All good info, thanks for posting.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Glad it was helpful!

[@moddedlegacy1081]

What are the fitting sizes for the brake line extension you needed ?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

They are 3/16" brake lines. When going to an autoparts store, you're looking for 3/16" brake lines with standard fitting, not metric. I had to go to a few places to get what I needed and some places they tried to sell me the right line size but metric fittings. It will say on the tag if they're metric or not, so it's important to look. :)

[@moddedlegacy1081]

@@AndyKruseChannel 🙏🏽 thank you

[@moddedlegacy1081]

@@AndyKruseChannel Are they inverted double flared ?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

@@moddedlegacy1081 Inverted flare.

[@gsr2084]

Hey Andy Love your videos (subscriber), ordered this exact unit and going to install next week, any advice on getting the old factory nuts loose from both my single bowl and proportional valve without breaking/stripping/busting them?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Thanks! Soak them in PB Blaster a day before you start. Use the flare wrench as it'll fit the nuts better, less chance of rounding them off. And not get discouraged if you have to buy new brake lines if you destroy them getting them off that old master cylinder. :)

[@santiagomunoznajar4868]

hello! I also have a 65 Mustang Fastback with Willwood brakes but I would like to change the Willwood brake pedal and clutch as well. Do you know which kit is correct? thank you

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Sorry Brotha, I haven't looked into their pedal assemblies to know which part to get. :)

[@mikebroszczak5767]

Nice. Thanks Andy.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

No worries!

[@bofa83]

I have front disc brakes and rear drum. Does that new proportioning valve replace both the front and rear proportioning valves?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

The proportioning valve controls how much brake fluid is sent to the rear brakes. The same amount of brakes fluid always goes to the front, but the amount sent to the rear can be limited.

[@dogsense3773]

Some times it will take hours to get your brake lights to work right

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Not me, they work right now. :)

[@alejandrorellana350]

I would like to know the bore size(diameter)in your wilwood mc. 7/8 or 15/16. I hope i have not bothered you

[@AndyKruseChannel]

15/16" bore. :)

[@alejandrorellana350]

@@AndyKruseChannel thanyou very much. Bigger its better?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

@@alejandrorellana350 The pedal will travel less with the larger bore, move more fluid with the equivalent pedal distance.

[@mikehofstetter7600]

So if you get that proportion valve assembly from wilwood does that eliminate the distribution block?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Yes, that proportioning valve will replace that stock block. :)

[@mikehofstetter7600]

@@AndyKruseChannelthanks, your videos have helped out a lot.

[@AlejandroMartinez-pl4np]

Any chance that you know the name of the brake pedal "sleeve" that you mentioned? I need one for my car but I don't know the name of it to google it and order it. Thx.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Yeah, it's the Master Cylinder Push Rod Bushing, CJ Pony Parts has it for $3.99, part number HW1186. :)

[@alejandrorellana350]

Its special this master cylinder? Is it different from the original? .

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Yes, the original was a single dowl, this one is a dual bowl. A dual bowl master cylinder is one of the best safety upgrades we can make to these cars.

[@alejandrorellana350]

@@AndyKruseChannel but you have one dual and replace for other wilwood. Is wilwood better than original dual mc? This is my dude

[@AndyKruseChannel]

@@alejandrorellana350 Correct, that stock-style dual bowl was on the car when I bought it, otherwise I would have replaced the single bowl with this Wilwood unit. Yes, this Wilwood MC is better. It's a different bore size than what I had which improves pedal feel and pressure applied to the brake pads. It's an aluminum body, so it's not an ugly rusting piece of iron in the corner of my engine bay. It's serviceable and rebuildable, which prolongs its life. I also added the brake bias adjustment from Wilwood, which allows my to dial in my front-to-rear brake bias. And lastly, I think they're the best aftermarket brake component manufacturer out there, so I'm happy to put their parts on my car. :)

[@alejandrorellana350]

@@AndyKruseChannel im very grateful for your support. Millions likes 4 yoy

[@Gowens968]

hey was just wondering how far dose the pedal travel and how hard do you half to push it i’m trying to decide on witch one to get 15/16 or 7/8 any help would be appreciated

[@AndyKruseChannel]

I don't know the dimensional specifics on pedal travel of the two bore sizes, but after talking with Wilwood, they said based on my driving style, the 15/16" bore was the better fit.

[@alejandrorellana350]

Whats the difference betwen original and wilwood?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Well, this one won't rust on me. Also, bore size is different.

[@stephendrake-hq8tt]

Is this upgrade more cosmetic than functional?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

I do prefer the nicer looking Wilwood MC over other units like what I had on the car, so yes in that category. But the 15/16 bore will offer an improvement over what I had, so that falls under the "functional" category. :)

[@jasonwilson8088]

Why is there know brake booster.?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Not all cars have them, and I prefer manual brakes anyway.

[@oleandreasjensen5263]

Exellent video.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Thanks!

[@MrBigal123123]

considering power brakes?

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Nah, I'm old school and I like manual brakes. :)

[@russelluemura7532]

Wish I viewed this video before I installed my Wilwood master cylinder. Chose a 7/8" bore and do not have a residual value. Car stops ok but maybe it could be better.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

The difference between a 7/8 and 15/16 bore won't be noticed by most drivers. I intend to push my car a little harder and I'd like a little more performance out of it, hence the larger bore. You're mostly likely going to be fine with that 7/8 bore, but that residual valve can be added any time, just re-bleed the system after install. :)

[@jaygribbin6790]

Hi Russell, the smaller master cylinder will offer more line pressure than the larger one. The trade off is longer pedal travel. In other words you wont have to push yours as hard as Andy but the pedal will travel further.

[@jaygribbin6790]

You do need a residual line pressure valve if you have rear drums. Without it ,the fluid will bleed back from the drums and you will have very long pedal travel on the first push of the brakes.Might be why you think the brakes aren't as good as they should be.

[@superpapi]

Nice!!!

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Thanks!

[@bofa83]

that was a lot fo work.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Nah, I've had other upgrades take way longer and require much more work. :)

[@AlfsMustangGarage]

Save those stickers! That adds about 50 horsepower.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Don’t tempt me!

[@rustybritches6747]

Actually I'm pretty sure they SLOW DOWN an additional 200 HP!

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Depends on the sticker.

[@petertremulis3835]

The better brakes you have, the faster you can go. Think about that for a minute.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

ok

[@1965copester]

2 Words.....Electric Powersteering!! 🙂

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Isn’t power steering really two words? So technically you’re requesting 3 words, or 50% more than your original request?

[@1965copester]

@@AndyKruseChannel I meant to make it one giant word. Lol. You need good power steering to keep that thin on the road with all that new hp.

[@luckyluciano4968]

@@AndyKruseChannel man this is great couldn’t be a perfect time for me my master cyl is leaking into the booster. All contaminated. So I am removing the booster. Truthfully. I never like the pedal feel. So reason I am shooting you this text the part number you put in the show notes. I click on it the kit shows up as a aluminum color kit. Not the black kit. Can you double check and reply back to me with the one you have. I keep trying different configurations on Amazon. But it keeps coming up that metal color housing. Thanks. Guido.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

@@luckyluciano4968 Unfortunately I cannot find anyone that sells the same black kit on Amazon, I can only find the aluminum housing. The part number I listed is correct (261-14158-BK), but you'll have to buy it through Summit Racing or Wilwood if you want the black kit. 🙂

[@luckyluciano4968]

@@AndyKruseChannel ok sounds good buddy.

[@jeffmeyeraan7374]

Baer brakes

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Or Wilwood.

[@whales302]

That seemed liked a royal pain in the ass, I think I would have just kept the stock dual bowl.

[@AndyKruseChannel]

Ok.