How to Lead a Church Into the Gifts: With Jack Deere & Jeff Wells

Jack Deere & Jeff Wells along with Michael Rowntree address how they discovered the gifts of the Spirit and the best practices to lead and pastor a church into the spiritual gifts. In transitioning a church body from a cessationist to a continuationist church, they examine how pastors can build a healthy culture for exhibiting the gifts and what the Bible says about orderly use of the gifts of the Spirit. Jack Deere, formerly an associate professor of Old Testament at Dallas Theological Seminary, is a writer and lecturer who speaks on friendship with God and on the gifts of the Holy Spirit. He is the author of the bestselling book, Surprised by the Power of the Spirit. Jeff Wells is the founding pastor of WoodsEdge Community Church in Houston, Texas.
#remnantradio #giftsofthespirit #holyspirit
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[@CatalyticChristian]

I really appreciate Jeff Wells presence and honesty about where his church is at with the gifts in their frequency and consistency. I feel like the stories from his church helps me have a balanced expectation for the gifts and how they could go.

[@holmeselectric9]

Yes... there needs to be a place in the service for the gifts. Because 1. They either won't be used or 2. They will be used out of order.

[@joelfields9807]

Jack Deere looks like Gandalf with a clean shave. That's a compliment, by the way 😊 Love the content.

[@acts413biblecollege8]

I really wish Jack Deere offered online training. I also think Michael Rowntree could probably write (or record) a simple manual to help churches get moving in the right direction until good coaching becomes widely available.

[@chriscoon801]

Charismatic doesn't have to be weird!! Thank you thank you thank you for saying that!

[@ReachOutMinistries]

It sometimes is. Spit in dirt, mix mud, put it in blind eyes to heal. Cook your food on dung and prophesy naked for months. Not always weird...

[@jorellitorres]

@@ReachOutMinistries 😂

[@dubyag4124]

SBC practical cessationist but not fully only because of the Word - this is possibly the first video/talk I've ever seen where the gifts were demonstrated to be biblical, loving, orderly, actually encourage church discipline (the very opposite of chaos) - I'm kind of speechless. And it also makes me angry at the enemy because obviously the Spirit gives us power, and power will be a powerful witness, and so doesn't it make sense the enemy will use this realm of the church to bring confusion and wolves to take advantage. Anyway, I can't say I've ever loved charismatics whole heartedly, I had to keep a safe distance, I feel such love for you guys because I see two things so much in ya'll: Love and Faithfulness. Thank you for this talk, very encouraging for a very apprehensive conservative.

[@dubyag4124]

Last comment: I can see real unity here: I feel I'm reformed, "reformed" usually means "weird hyper Calvinist", but it really just means trying to be biblical. Same for "charismatic" as you've demonstrated - not "weird charismatic", just trying to a biblical charismatic. That is real unity, and that is so glorying to God, and edifying to the Body.

[@betsiecrother1443]

I love this applicable conversation, another great one guys!!! I’m so thankful for you!!

[@andreso9595]

So cool to see yall in person I was actually sitting in the same row during the Wednesday. Man shoutout to Pastor Jeff Wells and all the other leaders here in Houston facing that idolatry of Bible Deism. The other extreme is the Charis-mania where anything that looks, hears, smells sounds good is Spiritual and of God. Both are paths that many of our sincere Brothers and Sisters are being lost in and it doesn't have to be this way! Thank yall for your leadership. I agree, be it creating DVD videos or Conferences to practice the "how to's" of Prophetic/Healing would be so cool! I know Brother John Wimber use to to do those conferences back in the day.

[@margocarmichael6765]

Thank you so much for this panel discussion. I have Jack's books, too. I've received two definite healings following words of knowledge in two different services. The ailments are totally gone. No one but the Lord and my friend with me knew what I needed. One was horrible headaches for years that stopped, the other was pain from a whiplash. Gone. So, at 26:52, Deere says to start teaching in the home groups, not Sunday mornings. And, you wouldn't come in on Sunday morning and ask who would like to give a sermon. OK. But what do you say to the Cessationist skeptic who says you shouldn't have to *teach* these things, if they're really of the Holy Spirit? I guess you'd point to 1 Corinthians 12, 13, and the one which is often overlooked, 14, where Paul did some needed coaching. Anyway, yes, look at how far the Church has come in learning and showing that the Holy Spirit is not semi- retired! Praise God! 😄 Great discussion Thank you.

[@AbidethForever]

Thank you Remnant Radio for having such influential guests on your show. I've had the pleasure of reading Jack Deere's and Dr. Michael Heiser's books on the Spirit and the spirit realm. What a wonderful learning experience!

[@mariajones943]

This video is literally making me weep...so helpful in answering so many questions and helping me to understand. God bless you guys:)

[@bethefrem902]

This was REALLY helpful, and even corrected areas I was wrong in (being divisive like Jack said he was at first; being so gung-ho that you scare people 😅). Thank you guys for such a balanced and truthful conversation. Keep it up 👏🏽

[@iamciarankeating]

Really appreciate this.

[@j.reesebradley4771]

Watching now! I was hoping you guys would have the infamous Jack Deere on! You guys talk about him all the time. 🤗

[@SunshineMcNair]

I’m part of a church that’s big on the gifts but I wish there were more Bible teaching, verse by verse teaching focusing on the intent of the writer and then application. I think it’s too much spiritualizing of the Bible and not teaching in context. I haven’t talked to my husband about it yet bc I’m still working out my feelings.

[@kadeemedwards206]

I’ve been part of such churches. I had to learn to strike balance between spiritual things and doctrinal things. Now I’m the associate pastor at a church that we are trying to usher into a more spiritual way of being while they already have a sound understanding of scripture. Striking that balance is doable. I’d be interested in talking to you further if you feel so inclined.

[@laurasanders5015]

Agree with you! There should be a balance of both Word and Spirit. We have both exegetical teaching and the practice of the gifts. I hope you can find both where you are.

[@SunshineMcNair]

@@laurasanders5015 thank you. I’m actually in prayer about it. Maybe God wants me to stay to usher in the verse by verse, historical context teaching. I’ve been called to that office. I don’t know. Also my husband has been in the hospital with Covid for over 3 weeks now so I haven’t talked with him about it. I’m patient as God leads bc I always want to be in His will.

[@laurasanders5015]

@@SunshineMcNair I am so sorry to hear about your husband! When I read what you wrote I stopped and prayed for his healing.

[@SunshineMcNair]

@@laurasanders5015 thank you. He’s showing improvement daily. Your prayers are appreciated

[@Drspeiser]

More like this, please!

[@annaboshier6680]

Thanks for this guys. I would love to see a wellspring service recorded (the Sunday service and the prophetic service after) and put on KZbin to see how this plays out

[@philipbenjamin4720]

I thought that this was excellent. I didn't like the time when you talked about Bethel and was very critical - all the more reason for me to say how helpful I believe this was. Thank you. I think that some people who watch this episode will try things for the first time - would it be a good idea at the start of another video to ask for feedback in the comments for what if anything people tried for the first time and what came from it. Thumbs up.

[@ikeknows5253]

Fifth day of requesting a Creationist discussion/interview on the show and promising to join Gold Tier on Patreon if you all do!

[@twobeardedmenandasmoothie3784]

Already happened. Schreiner interview 😋😉🤓

[@ikeknows5253]

@@twobeardedmenandasmoothie3784 I mean, if we are talking discussions with Creationists, there's been a few. Doug Wilson's, for example, is in that camp as well I believe🤔. But discussions focusing on Creationism, I know of none. 😔😩😭

[@twobeardedmenandasmoothie3784]

@@ikeknows5253 I feel ignorant. I read “creationist” as “cessationist”. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@Eligalindo.t]

Jason Lisle would be awesome to have on about creationism

[@greenNRGinit]

Hey guys, working on a book and lesson called 'Where Did the Gifts Go?' ... Some in today's church avoids, or misunderstands the gifts of the Holy Spirit as described in 1 Corinthians 12. So then, they quietly 'take a detour' around this chapter, and then wonder why the power is missing in their lives or in the Church. When we 'sit on our gifts' instead of opening our assigned gift, the Church suffers in a point where the gift is supposed to be used in some manner for healing, instruction or prophetic direction.

[@VeryBasicBible]

I don't like the idea of "practicing" and "being trained in" the gifts, and I am on the skeptical side. That being said... I am a continuationst and do wished more Christians took this seriously. I'm grateful for The Remnant Radio's teaching and interviews, and their presence as non-wacky, level headed, intellectual Continuationists.

[@DavidReyes-qn1bq]

I agree with you. I’m not sure I agree with the “practicing”. It’s something that comes natural, as you spend time with the Spirit.

[@02122_]

As a continuationist, I share your concern. It feels artificial to practice what should be an act of God. Granted, I’ve much to learn, but my assumption is that the prophets and apostles of scripture didn’t practice the miraculous as though it were a honable skill, they let God work through them.

[@slg716]

@TheRemnantRadio Thank you so much for this! If you have any trustworthy references for where we can get sound mentoring and training on the gifts I'd love to be informed.

[@ryandawson2877]

Have any of y’all read the book “questions and answers on spiritual gifts “by Howard Carter. It is classical Pentecostal. I think it was written around 1916 or something like that.

[@popscott3748]

The Prayer of Faith is the one that the Holy Spirit just gave you for the moment . All Will be taught by God ,, taught here is sound down into the ears . Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word ,,, Word here is the Holy Spirit so Faith comes by hearing the Holy Spirit talk to you personally .

[@mikenewson9506]

I’m a C&MA pastor in Canada that wants to help our church move into the gifts. I would love to get the mentoring you suggest is necessary. Due to Covid and travel restrictions is it possible to start a mentoring through Zoom? What a great service Remnant could facilitate for the Church.

[@cbuggy]

I'm a year into the process of transitioning into the gifts. You have unique challenges being in Canada, but a Canadian pastor actually was someone I read and listened to. Look up Jon Thompson at Sanctus Church. He talks more about integrating into church than most, though the context is different because he has a large church and our church is smaller.

[@MrsBSHignite]

William Lane Craig interview, maybe, discusses a bit of it (if I remember correctly)

[@23stgrge_bff]

"Work against us" is the qualifying factor to be kicked out...not the fact that "they arent saved"...so deductive reasoning would lead me to believe that a person would be rejected from the church for not assimilating even if they are born again....

[@j.reesebradley4771]

Jeff Well sounds like he’s from my state! 🍑

[@romans828.]

How about casting out demons? No one seems to be talking about that.

[@garysweeten5196]

The things Jack did on returning to his church is instructive because it lacked love, wisdom, and self-control. I always precede teaching on gifts with 1 CO 13: These three remain; faith, hope, and love, but the greatest is love. From 1969 to 73 we were in a house church with many new believers who came from very broken backgrounds and awful habits with no self-control and no rational thinking. A recipe for emotional disaster when they are in a group of power seeking charismaniacs. They had no biblical or social insights. So I decided that equipping Christians in a balance of Truth, Fruit, Gifts, and Power was essential. That assumption seems to underlie this discussion but is not specifically noted. These men seem mature, balanced, and wise. Emotionally unstable people are drawn to emotionally unstable churches. Some are filled with people with diagnosed hysterical conditions so caution is essential lest we make their conditions worse. Love is the key, IMO.

1Co 12:31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts. 1Co 14:1 Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.

[@bradharford6052]

Probably off topic a little but have you ever given fair consideration to the concept of ultimate universal reconciliation? Apparently a common belief in the first few centuries.

[@artistart55]

1st Corinthians 14:2 anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

[@aronburrell3792]

Have you applied to that internship yet? 😉

[@grantcaldwell1938]

This is wild I have a youth internship that I have been wrestling with God on whether or not I should go

[@23stgrge_bff]

I believe speaking in tongues is speaking that crosses language barriers, not the way that yall portray it...people who just speak on tongues randomly...I question

[@markshaneh]

People struggle with the prophetic because it’s so easy to fake and manipulate and there’s a lot of weird Christians who claim to be prophets. People being truly born again and truly receiving evidenced based healing are not as easily falsified.

[@popscott3748]

Double mindedness or of Two Souls is the condition of a believer when first born again . The carnal mind and the Mind of Christ . Gal. 4-1. Be Transformed by the renewing of the mind , delete the carnal mind and upload the Mind of Christ . John was still double minded, he announced the Lamb of God and then asked are you the one ? We in effect cut our own head off during the renewing of the mind process . 2 Cor. 7-1 cleans self, spirit here is worldly spiritual strongholds in your mind . A double minded person is unstable in all of their ways .

[@Ken-ly7zh]

Deceived

[@kadeemedwards206]

When, in this type of arena, you assert that someone (or in this case legions of people throughout church history) is deceived, what you’re really saying is “it can’t be real because it hasn’t happened to me.” I would err on the side of caution, brother. And I would encourage you get to the bottom of the matter by finding yourself in conversation with individuals who operate in the gifts rather than being dismissive 👌🏾

[@Ken-ly7zh]

@@kadeemedwards206 simply prove it by one true healer ,my lord and savoir heals who he pleases but the health wealth and so called prophets mock him by their deception i would say you should consider the sorce of your experiance , these things have been gone for 1900 years and now you claim the just came back sorry , satan is hard at it and many are falling into it

[@Alex.Kalashnik]

@@Ken-ly7zh There was plenty of silliness in the first century church, about which Paul wrote. Doesn’t mean the gifts of the Holy Spirit aren’t real.

[@Ken-ly7zh]

@@Alex.Kalashnik it is not silliness its wrong and its worse now ,i believe in healings but not at the hands of this fakery the benny hinns , kenneth haggins , and many many more frauds and mans church is no church at all sadly most churches are just plain broad road , no repentance cheap grace no one hed accountable believe anything and call it from God many and few ,many talking about going to heaven are not going there

[@kadeemedwards206]

@@Ken-ly7zh you’ve made a valid point. There is a vast multitude of so called preachers and teachers who are making traffic of Christ and the Gospel, as Scripture said there would be. There are even criminals and charlatans who falsify stories of healings. I can’t vouch for them. I can only vouch for the healings and miracles I’ve seen with my own eyes, things that circumstances have been graced with a capacity to glorify no one but the Lord Jesus Christ. Again, brother, it may be more wise (and possibly more humble) to just say you haven’t seen it or it hasn’t happened to you rather than it doesn’t happen at all.