How to make Sanders (Shepherd's Pie) - The Victorian Way

[@EnglishHeritage]

A very Happy New Year from everyone here at English Heritage. Today, Mrs Crocombe is busy preparing a hearty winter warmer: Sanders, also known as cottage or shepherd’s pie. Here are the answers to some questions you might have, from our food historian Dr Annie Gray… Q: Ok, give me the definitive answer: what’s the difference cottage and shepherd’s pie? A: Oh, this is a can of worms. Some people say that cottage pie is made with beef, while shepherd’s pie is made with lamb or mutton. However, while that sounds plausible, historically it is much much murkier. The first mention of either recipe comes from a diary of the 1790s, and is a Cottage Pie, made with veal but with no other details (like whether it had mash or a crust). Next you get Sanders, which is a term no longer in use, but which is what we would now call Cottage / Shepherd’s Pie - it was made with sliced or minced cold meat - type not specified - gravy, and mash. Shepherd’s Pie is first mentioned as an alternative name in the 1840s, and again, recipes call for any kind of meat. A bigger question is whether the thing is even a pie at all. Some recipes do use pastry, but only as a lid - so, not a pie - and a mash topping definitely isn’t a pie. We think the solution is to do away with debate and go back to calling it Sanders, which solves both problems. Q: Tell me more about mutton. A: Mutton is the meat of an older sheep. Today we’d call the meat of a sheep lamb if the sheep is under a year old, hogget from 1-2 years old, and mutton if the sheep is over 2 years of age. In the Victorian era, mutton was by far the most common meat of all of these types, often from sheep kept for their wool. Queen Victoria was a known lover of mutton, and the older the better - she often had 10 year old mutton at her table (I’ve tried 10 year old mutton and it is incredibly good). Once we started shipping frozen meat from Australia and New Zealand, lamb became more common, and mutton started to gain a bad - and underserved - reputation as being tough and fatty. Like any meat, there’s good mutton and bad mutton. It’s a really tasty meat, and slowly making a comeback as it is more sustainable than lamb (still being mainly older wool sheep), and very versatile. Q: This is a leftover dish, right? A: It is, indeed, a leftover dish. You can make it with fresh meat (Eliza Acton said it was superior if made with fresh meat), but essentially it is what the Victorians called cold meat cookery, and a really good way to eke out the remains of a joint. You can make a vegetarian version with chopped up leftover roast vegetables or a mushroom or chickpea stew replacing the meat. Q: *How* much butter?! A: There’s no point in mashed potatoes unless you add a lot of butter. They’re just going to be dry and disappointing. The late Joël Rebouchon, a Michelin-starred French chef, was famous for his mash, which used a ratio of 50:50 potato to butter. It’s up to you how much you add. But be warned - shepherd’s pie can be one of the nastiest dishes of the British culinary repertoire if you’re mean with the seasoning, the butter, or if you use horrors such as stock cubes or instant gravy. We’re only trying to save you. Anyway, Audley had its own dairy so there was no shortage of butter. We know that the kitchen got through around 3-4lb / 1.5-2 kg of butter a day - rising to 14lb or 7kg at Christmas! If you haven’t already, join Mrs Crocombe as she pays a visit to Fanny the Dairy Maid here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoeamaKmadJjj7M Q: Why is Mrs Crocombe mashing in a tray? Wouldn’t a bowl be easier? And would she really leave the skin on? A: It would be much easier in a bowl, but also much harder to show you on camera. Sometimes we do things a little cack-handedly for filming purposes. If the mash was for the family, the skin would most certainly be removed. But as this is for the servants, we left it on. Q: What on *earth* is mushroom ketchup? A: Mushroom ketchup is a relish made from salting mushrooms and leaving them to drip out their moisture, or by cooking them and squeezing out the liquid. The liquor is then seasoned with various spices, of which cloves and cayenne usually feature, to make a dark brown, thin table sauce which is decidedly punchy. It’s a bit like Worcestershire Sauce or Henderson’s Relish, and part of the same family. You can still buy it today if you’re in the UK. You could substitute it for any similar sauce, including oyster sauce or light soy.

[@Zelmel]

Mushroom ketchup is pretty great! You can buy it in the US still too, but it's really hard to find unless you order it online (in which case it's readily available). The brand I tried, Geo Watkins, was sweeter than I expected, vaguely reminiscent of A1 Steak Sauce but thinner.

[@JJONNYREPP]

How to make Sanders (Shepherd's Pie) - The Victorian Way 1404pm 13.1.25 any more ghostly cctv live cams planned this year..? i mean you could let us enjoy an all night sesh of live cams streamed from your various haunted mansions and castles..., couldn't you? as for shepherd's pie - just use veggie mince as a substitute for the meat - easy enough rule to follow...

[@1One2Three5Eight13]

I went into this fully expecting some snark from Mrs. Crocombe regarding shepherd's pie vs cottage pie, so thank you very much for the note!

[@Georgia-zt7ss]

Thank you, Dr Annie.

[@ThuNguyen-jy2jt]

The way she looks at us as she says “low-class establishment” 😂

[@dianacfleming]

I felt like a child who just got a gold star because I hand minced my meat last time :D

[@RuSosan]

We have been judged. 😆

[@wildestsquirrelwildestsqui5020]

😂😂

[@joannecarolyn5018]

It was classic 😅

[@januzzell8631]

2 mins 30 and Ooooh the Shade - I feel definitely judged

[@terry94131]

Shepherd's pie is very popular here in my low-class, no-servants house.

[@pianoreigns]

Same !! 😂😂😂😂😂

[@kathyjohnson2043]

With which meat? I couldn't afford lamb and you can't get mutton here

[@pianoreigns]

@@kathyjohnson2043 I do it the way my Mom taught me - Ground cooked hamburger on the bottom , corn giblets in the middle , mashed potatos top layer. 🙂

[@heathercutler5114]

​@kathyjohnson2043 we typically use beef, either ground, chopped, or in small cubes. We use lamb when it's available as well. We usually haven't found mutton where we've lived. 😅

[@martynnotman3467]

"Heres a recipe for all you freezing peasants" 😂

[@GammyHog]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Seoulsearch616]

Mrs. Crocombe always makes me feel like the peasant I am, and I keep coming back for it! 😬😁😂

[@neehadbaharuddin3106]

I regret binge-watching all of Mrs Crocombe's videos from 7 years ago and now I wait for morsels every month :(

[@altheam-c3479]

Oh goodness, has it really been 7 years? It doesn't feel that long

[@Tezz007]

​@@altheam-c3479I remember vividly feeling terribly nauseous watching the kedgeree video when I was newly pregnant with my eldest child, who will be turning 7 not too long from now. Time does fly.

[@neehadbaharuddin3106]

@@altheam-c3479 I was mistaken. I thought it was 7 years, its even older. Almost 10 years. First video was up Feb 2015.

[@mjm3091]

like literally

[@altheam-c3479]

@@neehadbaharuddin3106 😱 It doesn't feel that long ago. XD I got into this off of a Black Butler phase because the cooking and food was the best part and that's all this is. Same with all the Ruth Goodman videos (for the history)

[@karenm.2185]

I love how she throws that shade on low class establishments!!

[@briandelaney9710]

“Not the mark of a good kitchen “

[@sharimeline3077]

Well. I've been told. My kitchen is a low class establishment.

[@mjm3091]

There is no shame of being the only servant.

[@cherrylee1103]

ditto😂

[@DB-su5qp]

My Grandmother was a victorian cook (even cooked for Winston Churchill), since my dad would have not other dishes I was brought up on Victorian and WW2 recipes. SO in our house, the shepherd's pie was cold minced lamb roast (no mutton available and this was lamented), the cottage pie was the cold beef roast and Old Man's pie was with a shortcrust pastry. I think it is possible to rationalise the names and correct confusion, at least with shepherd's pie. However (a big however) I think that the "pie" name was simply used ironically as the cook couldn;t be expected to make pastry for the shepherd and the cottager didn't have time and simply used cold boiled potatoes from the previous day's roast dinner. It should be noted that being a shepherd in the past was not the owner of the sheep like today, but a sheep minder and a pretty tough and low status job, so it may infact mean the shepherd's pie was simply the quickest, cheapest and easiest (yet tasty and nourishing) dish to put together for the farm hands.

[@jonirnmomba4130]

It’s time for my annual request for a Crocombe Advent. I have a feeling we will really need it by Christmas 2025.

[@bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb-]

Seconding the request for a Crocombe Advent

[@moniquelouise73]

You know what…. She’s a dang good actress! It feels like a time travel!!!!

[@JazzHands]

always appreciate getting recipes suitable for my low class, less equipped kitchen!

[@BOREDOM6969]

I can believe I was watching Mrs. Crocombe since highschool until now that I just got my first full-time job. Time flies.

[@heathercutler5114]

Congratulations on your first full time job!😊

[@Nero_Jero]

My grandma (who just turned 99 yesterday) is from England and would make Shepherd's pit a lot when I was growing up. She used ground beef as mutton isn't really a thing here in the US, and would draw a Union Jack on the mashed potatoes with a fork. Thank you for sharing this version 🙂

[@kathyjohnson2043]

Tell her happy birthday from all of us!

[@heathercutler5114]

Happy birthday to your grandma!🎉😊

[@GammyHog]

Mrs. Crocombe helps chase the blues away 🥰

[@That.Lady.withtheYarn]

She has returned!

[@kathleenorr9237]

Mrs Crocombe returns! Sadly I now know I cook in a low class establishment 😂

[@Yuukismommy]

The Victorian Way videos are some of my most favorite on the internet. Long live Mrs. Crocombe :)

[@mrdasilver]

"Machine-ground meats are for peasants." -Mrs Crocombe

[@CarlaHanley]

I like to add vegetables (usually carrots and english peas) to my dish. A perfect one dish meal.

[@SweetLotusDreams]

Onions as well.

[@noahcount7132]

It's greatly appreciated that you left the skins on the potatoes, Mrs. Crocombe (Kathy). That's where a good bit of the tuber's delightful, earthy flavor resides. No potato that's destined to be a part of any recipe made in my kitchen ever gets peeled. Scrubbing potatoes prior to cooking is economical and gastronomically sensible. Peeling them is wasteful.

[@ShereeR99]

Except, if you noticed, her mashed potato appeared to have no skins in it. BTW I agree with you and my mashed potatoes have skins in them.

[@noahcount7132]

@@ShereeR99 What I noticed is that Mrs. Crocombe's mashed potatoes do include the skin. I could be mistaken (wouldn't be the first time) but I watched the video twice to confirm what I believe I saw.

[@SharonBoland-ui3ns]

Waste not, want not. 😀

[@kayfountain8952]

That's me told. My kitchen is too low class to even start to be a servants hall! My paternal grandmother and great-aunts, all big-house servants, would be ashamed of me.

[@andreagriffiths3512]

I make a great shepherd’s pie but I’d add onion, peas, and finely diced carrots to mine..with mince meat. Cook and lay the meat mix in the bottom of a pie dish, top with thin tomato slices, top with mash potato with some cheese in, dab butter on top and bake. Yummy!

[@pistolannie6500]

Thats closer to the recipes I've seen.

[@SweetLotusDreams]

And a few dashes of Worcestershire sauce and tomato ketchup.

[@Linnet09]

I do wonder about mutton. I love lamb, but have vivid memories of the time I bought some mutton from a farm truck. The woman warned me "this isn't lamb, you know, it's mutton" and I, thinking "well, how tough and strong-flavoured can it be?" took it anyway. I tried roasting some - very bad idea. It was so tough and strong-tasting. I eventually stewed it up in the kind of sauce you'd use for lamb shanks - red wine, long slow cooking - and then it was fine. I didn't think to ask the woman from the farm exactly how old that sheep had been. Maybe it wasn't old enough - but apparently, 10-year-old sheep has the strongest taste! I have a friend who refuses to eat even lamb as an adult after having eaten so much mutton as a child.

[@vickywitton1008]

Oh welcome back Mrs Crocombe!

[@marclegarreta]

“Institutional cooking” aka prison or the workhouse. 😂😂😂 Lovely places in Victorian Britain.

[@chromeshellking]

My goodness what a treat to wake up to today while not feeling quite so well and being under the weather.

[@MyRickynOlivia]

I love to see how a dish a simple as shepherds pie has change throughout the years. This is definitely not anything close to the shepherds pie I eat today. Still love to watch Mrs. Crocombe roast people lol always a delight.

[@shaventalz3092]

Does yours have a pastry?

[@MyRickynOlivia]

@shaventalz3092 No, but I have tried it with pastry. There are a few different ways to make shepherds pie.

[@christopherreed4723]

Tastes have changed, as have ingredients. Good luck finding mushroom catsup in most stores nowadays (I'd have to order it from Townsends or make my own). And the vast majority of "Shepherd's Pies" you find here in the US are made with beef, not mutton or lamb, because the average American consumer considers lamb "too gamey". Meaning it actually *has* flavor of its own. It'd be interesting to make this, for sure. I also like the idea of laying slices of cooked potato on the mash.

[@MyRickynOlivia]

@christopherreed4723 yes, I would agree. My traditional shepherds pie is made with beef, or ground deer meat. I have tried it with ground chicken and pork also. Again this is an old recipe. It has changed a lot over the years. If you don't have mushroom gravy to make this exact recipe you can substitute with worcestershire. They are very similar.

[@mirandamom1346]

A household without any servants?! Perish the thought!

[@kristentaylor5359]

Right. Even the Bennett family had servants!

[@feverspell]

I was always told that shepherd's pie used lamb (hence the "shepherd") and cottage pie used beef, but otherwise, they were the same dish. I've made cottage pie quite a few times, and it's really quite delicious. A great way to use up leftover vegetables you may have as well.

[@My_mid-victorian_crisis]

I wish I had known this about 6 years ago. I catered an American Highlands festival and got lectured that my beef Shepherd's pie was "actually" Cottage pie because it didn't have lamb. I could have just fired back with "Eliza Acton called Sanders, so 😝," it was my last year doing it so...

[@MrsBrit1]

Yes, the hint is in the name! 😂 Shepherds pie is a variety of cottage pie. If it's not lamb or mutton, it's a cottage pie!

[@allanpaologupit4942]

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO Y'ALL AND TO THE MOST SOPHISTICATED CHEF ON KZbin! 🎉

[@queenofdramatech]

I see crocombe and I click! Simple as that!!!

[@ThomasDawkins88]

Cayerne Peppern!

[@Hortonscakes]

God bless this woman and this channel! And I'm not even religious. ❤

[@SprocketsandLupins]

I got the cook book for Christmas and I'm looking forward to trying everything in it! ❤ I've already thoroughly enjoyed all the historical elements of the book and learning all about the amazing inspiration behind this "character" ❤

[@ashlynnnicole9334]

I love how we collectively watch this woman make recipes we will most likely never try ourselves and laugh at her shady comments

[@DB-su5qp]

I always remember the Giant's shepherd's pie recipe in the Goodies and the Beanstalk TV Christmas special. "first take 3 plump shepherds"!

[@I_am_Lauren]

In the US a Shepherds pie always has pastry and mixed vegetables. So I think Sanders is a more fitting name for this dish.

[@kathyjohnson2043]

Hmm, around my pRt of the US, that would be a pot pie and shepherds pie is like she made it, only with ground beef (and maybe a few peas)

[@valeriegardiner3591]

Never tried putting mash on the bottom

[@kathyjohnson2043]

Me neither come to think of it.

[@MJK1965]

Dear Mrs Crocombe. I think the servants eat just as good as Lord and Lady Braybrooke.

[@catherinejustcatherine1778]

I'm unsurprised to see no colorful vegetables in this. I would imagine that they're far too expensive for "mere servants".

[@DearHumanity]

💚 That hand mincing tool 😻 I doubt they even make those any longer 😿

[@leannsmarie]

The only thing similar is a 'bench scraper', which has the handle built in above the blade & not held on a post like the one in the video. I suppose one could use it as a hand mincer.

[@JLa_802]

After all these years, my mother’s cooking has finally fallen victim to Mrs. Crocombe’s shade. Low class establishments 🤣

[@joannecarolyn5018]

I ❤ Mrs Crocombe and her side swipes! 😂😂

[@Saraphina_Marie]

I do a minced beef version (cooked from raw, usually with some barley or oats to stretch it) with onion, carrots, and peas. I season with dry mustard, sage, and allspice and make a gravy with beer and stock. But I use instant mash for the top because this is a low-class establishment 😂. I do make the instant mash with half cream instead of all water though and top it with cheddar cheese before running it under the broiler. If I ever got some mutton I'd be game to try it the more traditional way!

[@realnoahsimpson]

i’m ill today the day this was uploaded, this is just what i needed 😊

[@cesarvilchis4217]

That comment about the cold felt personal

[@pistolannie6500]

The Cooking show...we Didn't KNOW... we NEEDED! 😅

[@pistolannie6500]

Doesn't she know..Nothin grows in THE SHADE! 😂😂

[@koartiste4756]

Thanks for this new recipe, it's always a pleasure to watch Mrs Crocombe's recipes! Hi from France

[@StASiA70]

Yay!! She's back!!

[@mildlycornfield]

I know this is only a servants' dish, but the lack of peas, carrots, and onions would be highly controversial at our table! I like the name 'sanders' though, it stops the arguments over what counts as cottage pie and what counts as shepherd's! 😂😂😂

[@Snowfoxkit]

“I hope you’re not suffering from the cold!”

[@sethstronguncut]

Quick the new Mrs. Crocombe video just dropped!

[@roymarven2554]

New year, new Crocombe. Bliss ❤❤❤

[@sst-du9bz]

2:15 The shade !! 😂

[@frauleintrude6347]

Throwing shade left and right, low(er) class people and low class establishments.. 😂

[@Ater_Draco]

So difficult to make shepherd's pie these days with the high price of lamb. I love a good cottage pie instead

[@kristentaylor5359]

I always thought Shepherd's or Cottage Pie also had veg in with the meat, like carrots, peas, and onions. At least the one I got in Ireland had that

[@eddieboyky]

Nice to see that Mrs.C is roaring into the new year with sass and shade intact!

[@clarsach29]

150 years or so after this was set and my other half always insists that to be called a pie it needs a pastry lid AND pastry walls, none of this "heap of stewed meat with a square of puff pastry floating on top" nonsense that you often get

[@jenniferdunn3560]

I add a teaspoon of Pataks curry paste to my low establishment Shepherd’s Pie.

[@skoubidou00]

THE SALT 2:41 omg this is very very much salt

[@EnglishHeritage]

It's important to use a good amount of salt 👀

[@Magical525]

My thoughts exactly 😂 But then I barely use salt at all, so a small amount goes a long way. However, potatoes do need salt, just not *that* much

[@dianasthings729]

Thank you! I love watching how my ancestors cooked !!

[@LoisClouds]

Here again after a couple of years :)

[@claudiocavaliere856]

Absolutely fabulous as always! What a pleasure!

[@CinHK]

My Argentinian mother would make this with beef and called it Pastel de Papa 🥔

[@aizuddinghaffarud-din9365]

She backed and she making a homemade shepherd pie.😋😋😋

[@xilored]

Happy new year. Amazing❤

[@catherinelindsay7437]

I was told that cottage pie is made with beef mince and shepherds pie is made with lamb mince. Not sure if that's just my family though!

[@billythedog-309]

Well, the clue is in one of the names - a shepherd doesn't look after cattle.

[@laerwen]

It's a modern contrivance.

[@catherinejustcatherine1778]

Oh, the shade. And, how she puts less than a modest pinch of each seasoning, possibly less than half a teaspoon. Then, frowning @ us, cautions *us* not to "underseason"🙄

[@jackdorsey4850]

No milk in the mash but gobs of butter

[@Myrtle2911]

When Mrs. Crocombe kept saying "cold meat", I was very confused. I thought she meant this was going to be a cold dish and couldn't imagine eating cold meat and potatoes! I'm guessing "cold meat" is a nicer way of saying "leftover meat"? I'm also a little surprised at the lack of vegetables in this as well.

[@matchaparfait9727]

I understand "cold meat" as meat dish served cold (or room temperature, definitely not piping hot), maybe like a roast or ham, luncheon meat, or anything alike. It doesn't translate to leftovers.

[@grimreaper6557]

Absolutely wonderful version I will have to try a layered shepherds pie 😊

[@kirstenpaff8946]

Maybe I just have different connotations of what a low class establishment is than Mrs. Crocombe would have, but I feel like she is selling herself short by uttering that this dish is good for low class establishments and the servants hall. It might not be fancy, but I am sure she uses top notch ingredients. Low class establishment makes me think of rancid mystery meat and questionably edible filler ingredients.

[@tiredoftrolls2629]

We had that with beef in Missouri last week.

[@Ater_Draco]

That's cottage pie. One of my favourites 😊

[@billymacaraeg7761]

Amazing 😊😊

[@bhaskarchatterjee5249]

Not mrs crocombe throwing shade on the poor servants

[@AnnaAnna-uc2ff]

Thank you very much.

[@plinkiplonk]

... of course, strictly speaking it's only a real Shepherd's pie if it's made from minced shepherd...

[@shaventalz3092]

With a pastry crust, of course.

[@laerwen]

This is the only correct answer in this entire comment section.

[@morbidlyobeserobocop3038]

Cayernne peppern

[@xr6lad]

Cottage and Shepard’s pie are technically different pies. One is beef, one is lamb. Far too many places use the same term for what are actually different pies. And it’s very much made with pastry (unless you make it yourself).

[@jasonsmart3482]

In, sure the cottage pies I made today Mrs Crocombe wouldn't even consider fit for peasants - made with quorn mince and lentils. It is interesting how the dish has evolved although I think most people dont care what you should or shouldn't put in and just make it how they like it. Still though coming in after being out in the cold its wonderful comfort food.

[@pamelaharrington3838]

MY MRS.CROCOMBE💙🤗🩵!!! RUNS IN & 💙🤗🖤S MY MRS.CROCOMBE!!! #HAPPY2025🎆🍾🎊🍻🎇🥂🥳🥃

[@alaricreche255]

Nice variant of the "Hachis Parmentier" if I can say, I like it! 🤤

[@shawnpeterson137]

Looking at my store bought minced meat And feeling very low. 😅😅😅

[@l.j4496]

I was wondering if you could tell me if the following statement is true from a historical point of view ? Shepherd's Pie VS Cottage Pie: The main difference between them comes down to the type of meat filling used. Shepherd's pie is made of ground lamb while cottage pie uses ground beef. Thank you so much.😊

[@LeighClaffey-y7z]

Every time Mrs. C breaks out the nutmeg, over on Townsends Jon's ears perk up and his nose twitches... I'm just saying. * Our family has gone more 'granular' for variations on Cottage Pie (sometimes made with leftover meat, sometimes not): Shepherd's, Swineherd's, Poulterer's.... etc. So you know what it is before you sit down. Usually we make them all with frozen petite peas and carrots mix, worcestershire sauce and (non-instant) gravy, with (usually) cheese mixed into the mashed potatoes in addition to butter and cream. Never thought about putting on a bottom layer of potatoes, although I have done a bottom layer of stuffing if we're using leftover turkey. I'll have to try that.

[@RamBeloeZlato]

Exquisite Shoigu Campaign of what I only read not recipes.

[@JustJakkie]

Mrs. Crocombe what is mushroom ketchup? Is it the same as Wash-Your-Sister sauce?

[@EnglishHeritage]

Mushroom ketchup is a relish made from salting mushrooms and leaving them to drip out their moisture, or by cooking them and squeezing out the liquid. The liquor is then seasoned with various spices, of which cloves and cayenne usually feature, to make a dark brown, thin table sauce which is decidedly punchy. It’s a bit like Worcestershire Sauce, yes - or Henderson’s Relish. You could substitute it for any similar sauce, including oyster sauce or light soy.

[@mariaboletsis3188]

Hello again my favourite Victorian lady!

[@wiesscaballo4211]

If any of you are interested in the Mushroom Ketchup, Townsends has an excellent couple of videos on the subject! It is a bit involved. But not too hard.

[@AA-hy6nb]

Sheppard's pie us excellent, - especially the vegan version, made with vegan "meets".

[@tommyvalenzuela7504]

I think I’ve seen some Sheppard pie made toy some veggies, like peas and carrots mixed in

[@100FactChecks]

Could we have more information on mushroom ketchup?

[@ultracapitalistutopia3550]

Interesting that the word "ketchup" was being used during the Victorian era, considering its likely origin of British colony of Hong Kong.

[@vickiekostecki]

Apparently the first English reference to ketchup/catsup was in the late 1600s.

[@telemachus53]

Oof! I can't find my mushoom ketchup.

[@demoisellelenina]

So the people who made shepherds pie to sell them got their famiy name Sanders.

[@taurahelms3068]

I have never heard of mushroom ketchup.