How To OPTIMISE Your DAIKIN Heat Pump Controls!

In this video, Adam shows us how to optimise your Daikin heat pump controls!
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[@owenattewell3989]

Ah I was doing my own version of this for our customers. But yours is brilliant, i hope it guides and encourages customers to start learning about their system rather than thinking a HP is "fit and forget"

[@adamcole4808]

Thank you so much for this!. Wish the Daikin manual was half as good.

[@glightsolutions]

Great video. We usually get customers to turn up the stats to max in living spaces and then try find lowest slope-offset setting. Easier for customer to adjust slope number than 4 point curve. Like the heat curve on a Nibe. Nice and simples

[@romanpajak9215]

Glad you have done a Daikin video and its great, I still am struggling to optimise mine because I have a buffer tank so need a secondary pump and the moloko controller won't work with this set up as there is no way to turn the secondary pump on when the heat pump is running. I currently have a Hive which turns the heat pump on and the secondary pump but this thermostat is on/off and can't be efficient. So looking for an alternative, If I run the secondary pump constantly and use the weather comp and keep tweaking it may this be the best way?

[@ralpharmsby8040]

I have just had a Daikin heat pump fitted and am amazed at how complicated it is even to just get basic temperature settings right. I mean who is going to want to talk about graph curves etc. Surely a simple ECO mode etc would be better for most people. If I showed this video to friends and family they would be unlikely to follow our example

[@gavthegas547]

That was fantastic I learnt so much. Is there any way for the unit to maximise time of use tariffs?

[@Lawrence7of9]

Thanks for all your videos by the way, learning loads!

[@thefenderdefender]

Now that we've all mastered the heating control, perhaps you could do a video on controlling the domestic hot water!?

[@HeatGeek]

Already recorded and due v soon

[@DudumanBogdanVlad]

I am also interested about this as I saw in domestic hot water, the degrees cannot be changed, is grey out on our side and we had it at 60 degrees. Not sure what we are missing from Settings, but will be nice to have this as maybe sometimes you want the water to 48 degrees and somtimes to 55 degrees. Coudn't find yet how to do it, in some videos I saw, the changing of water temperature is already enabled and can be changed

[@mrwilson1112]

@@HeatGeek Any update Please?

[@thomasneely2700]

Thanks for posting these, can you please do it for the Mitsubishi Ecodan Thank you.

[@oscarferg]

So excited for this one

[@zonkex]

Thank you for the valuable information. I have set my WD curve low enough (21-40 water temp for -1-20 outdoor temp) so the 4 rads in my(poorly insulated unfortunately) apartment sustain the internal temperature at 18-18.5 C. But now, the compressor does restart a lot, as it fairly quickly reaches the target water temp. Shall i up the upper limit a bit? Buy bigger rads ?

[@bavskijt]

Love the vids, please keep them coming! Could you please do a video detailing optional settings for the Midea Monobloc please?

[@MrWLJ71]

Great video, thank you. I have a question for you relating to my Altherma 3 unit. I have 2x FCUs installed (1xUpstairs, 1Downstairs), and 2 zones off each FCU (4 zones in total) controlled by dampers. My installer fit AirZone controllers in each room, not Daikin, telling me this was the only option for my setup. The issue I am experiencing is that my space heating never gets above 20degC. I watch the Altherma sensors and actuator readouts nd can see the refrigerant temp climb to 50degC for example and the LWT reaches roughly the same, the warm air flows out of my ceiling grills. I then see the compressor switch off, the refrig temp drops as does the LWT and my room grills blow cold... which chills the room to a lower point than before I put any space heating into it! My current setup uses External Room Thermostat as the on/off control for the pump.... Should I use Leaving water temp and the WD curve to control the pump being on and off or is there another issue here? Thank you

[@darkrozsos]

@Heat Geek - I have an Daikin Altherma 3 with underfloor heating in a new house with good insulation and thermostats in every room ( not connected to Daikin ). I did not fully understand the Modulation parameter. You say that it's better to be close to zero ( I have it on 1 ) on old houses with a light insulation and high heat loss - after that you say that the Modulation should be higher even for "newer" houses. I understood that the Modulation is used by the compressor to quickly start and maintain the optimal temperature and the RPMs of the compressor are adjusted automatically and not running at full speed if the house demands a small increase in heating. Also, another question is, by default DeltaT is set to 5. I understand that it is the difference between leaving water and incoming water back to the heat exchange plate, but what should happen if we set it to 1 or 2 or higher than 5 ? Thank you.

[@adamsabljakovic213]

Totally helped me to set the proper heating and consumption of electricity was half (now 12-18kWh/day previous 30-40kWh/day) the leaving water temp is 26-28°C (floor heating). I also turned off BSH for boiler (only for legionella left on for once a week) and turned on schedule which lowered the consumption from 40kWh/day to max 3-4kWh/day with no temperature difference (50°C water). Thanks Heat Geeks!!

[@estebanjimenezmayans17]

Could you share your weather compensation curve? Mine is really low and thr back up heater turns on constantly, reducing the efficiency. Thanks!

[@anthonydyer3939]

How do you get that video screenshot of the control display? I want that when it comes to reviewing my newly installed Daikin system.

[@emdrum]

I have a recently commissioned Daikin ASHP and watched this with interest. It's full of interesting tips but having followed the guidance my heating was all over the place - often far too warm for the weather, even though I turned down the target at design temperature. I watched it again and again to see where I went wrong, and eventually became suspicious of the comment about Modulation. I live in a relatively modern bungalow which is well- insulated with fairly high levels of solar gain, and had set the Modulation initially to 6, and then to 9, to try and deal with the issue. The temperature was all over the place. As a trial, I set it to 1, and the whole thing settled down into a smooth level temp throughout the day. Is it possible you've got these settings the wrong way around in the video? To my mind, if you have a well-insulated property with low heat loss then you don't want the ASHP to vary from the WC curve too much because the heat stays in the property. However, in a house built for coal fires and without cavity walls the temp is going to vary widely depending on conditions and the ASHP needs to be able to adjust accordingly. Or have I misunderstood its purpose?

[@orion1983uk]

We moved into a new build house that has a Daikin Altherma hybrid heating system - so we have both a gas boiler and a 4kW heat pump. The Daikin controller, which is an older version of this one, has all these settings as well. When we first moved in (and after I got my head around it) I found the curve was set by the builder to 35 - 55 on the Tt (Y axis) and -5 to +15 on the Ta (x axis). I later discovered that my neighbours all have different settings despite the same system - the consistency of install has been very poor so I have no idea what the 'design' range is meant to be. I tended to find the air pump module barely ever did anything initially on colder days when the system was trying to heat the radiators to 50C+. I eventually fitted a Netatmo smart thermostat and radiator valves and then started experimenting with the 'fixed' mode. I discovered that at 45C, even on a cold day of -5C, this was still enough heat in the radiators to heat the house at a reasonable rate. So I initially set the weather dependant curve Tt at 35C to 45C. With the aid of the smart valves, I found the heat pump module was now contributing more (with the gas boiler off). As the weather has got milder though, the system has started heating the radiators to less than 40C (as per the curve settings), and I've found this just isn't hot enough to heat the house at anything other than a crawl. I've since set my Tt to a very narrow range of 40 to 45C and this appears to be working well. I'd none the less be interested too know your (or anyone else's) thoughts on this one.

[@ReneMaurin]

Since the thing that makes a heat pump less efficient is the backup heater, the setting that could play a big role is Equilibrium. I understand the concept of it, however I would love to hear some more information about how to set it up. My curve goes to around 50 leaving water at 0 ambient and I wonder how far it makes sense to push the pump before let go to boiler mode. I know it is an installer setting however I cannot find any info on it and my installer is kinda hard to get.

[@madisrist5476]

Hey, thank you for the helpful tips! I'm curious, was there a specific rationale behind setting the temperature at 40 degrees when it's -3 degrees outside? Have you considered a slower increase in the heating curve instead? For example adjusting leaving temp to 45 degrees when it's -15 degrees outside?

[@MsMik100]

Hi I've had this set up panel a couple of years . All of a sudden the display has gone dark .Is there anyway of adjusting the light? Thanks in advance

[@ogfeen]

How do you calculate the loss in btu output of a rad relevant to flow temperature. IE if you have a 30 degree flow but the output of the rads is marked for 50 etc. 60 etc.

[@estebanjimenezmayans17]

I have an efficient house with an altherma 3 and UFH and due to the fact that I do not need a really high water flow temperature to have 21 degrees at home, my compressor does not work too often and the backup heater is on often. What settings would give me the most efficient performance for my heat pump? I.e higher water leaving temperature at the start of my curve say 25 (offsetting to decrease target temp) but compressor working more often OR lower starting temp, say 21, with the back up heater running to cover these lower temperatures?

[@raglessj]

I have been suffering from outsized electricity bills for a few months, and am now devouring these videos to deal with it. Thanks very much for all of the guidance which is invaluable, and not to be found in any of the Daikin manuals. I have gone fully on-board, and switched the Control' to Leaving Water instead of using the installed Heatmiser thermostats, which is what you referred to as "pure weather compensation". 1. I have set the thermostats as an upper limit, as you suggested. With the control set to Leaving Water however, will these still have any effect? 2. What is the right thing to do in the summer? There is no "Summer" setting on Daikin. Should I just rely on the upper limit set on the thermostats (assuming it's working), or switch space heating off (somehow)? Many thanks, and keep posting the videos!

[@baro2212]

Hey, I have the same questions. Since you posted it 8 months ago what you found as answers in the meantime? tnx

[@damiendoyle]

Can you do a video on settings for the Ecodan range?

[@JimCassidy-xy1il]

Great to see Daikin specific info - BUT PLEASE PLEASE can you do the same for the older 'control box'? Thanks Geeks

[@philipbroggio9315]

Agree would be useful for the control box for the Daikin Altherma 2 .

[@johnmillen9218]

100% this please 🙂

[@CommercialGasEngineerVideos]

Yes, go on

[@johnmillen9218]

@@CommercialGasEngineerVideos look j

[@JimCassidy-xy1il]

​ @Heat Geek You mention 'pure weather comp' in an answer below and also in the video you seem to get quite interested in that but don't tell us what it is and how it differs from the 4 point curve - could you briefly explain what and how to set it? Thanks

[@DrChimRichels]

Thanks for the video, love em. I don't understand why the top flow temperature tops out at 40 degrees. Surely if it goes below -3 it needs to continue up to compensate. what you describe in setting the curve in the first place is how I run the whole time with a third party (nest) on off stat which never trips because the curve is set right and because I don't want the room adaptation ramp-up. Thought about going with the proprietary wifi stat (mitsi) but no need. it prevents you refining the curve because you don't know what its doing. Be great if you could run it in wc mode and use the plus and the minus buttons.

[@HeatGeek]

There's another curve type if needed or you can set for -5. All very unlikely to be an issue though

[@Haik0]

Can some please advise what heat pump power to go with? I am bringing offered within a wide range of specs from 7 -10 kw, for my 100 square meter property, with decent external wall isolation (10cm polyurethane), loft 10cm cellulose and underfloor heating. I have netmrrowed down to a 8kw Daikin or 7kw Vaillant, but i have been also advised that 5kw Daikin should can be a perfect fit, of course I would like to go lower if possible. What do you think?

[@arniet1]

Using a Daikin Altherma EDLQ-CV3 air to water. What should the 'Desired Comfort main LWT Offset in Heating' be, when it's-5°c outside?

[@HeatGeek]

That depends on your rads and insulation level. Put it in pure wether comp.. if your house overshoots in temp tune it down..

[@juliacurrie8925]

This is really useful thanks. I see you're standing by a sign saying Monobloc so I assume this controller is for a Daikin monobloc. Can I get this controller on my Daikin split system ? I have exactly this control system but it's on the indoor unit itself which is not very accessible.

[@iankilloch85]

Type in Daikin Ireland to U-Tube and there is a range of short videos covering this

[@martinwallis7275]

My MMI doesn’t have half of these options. Have they been removed since this video was made, or are they only shown in installer mode?

[@vladjoanta]

Hello! Any tips for hot water energy consumption? In the spring i am planning to install also a solar hot water system, but till then i am on 600kwh/month only on hot water. Is on schedule for last 2 months, but there is not much of a difference since I’ve switched from continuous operation.

[@HeatGeek]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXvIqpaVmKx8g7c

[@SuperScubaTim]

Great video guys. The amount of different information on heat pump set ups is staggering. Very few installers are recommending this way of setting up the controls of the weather compensation mode and are instead opting for stats everywhere, all calling the boiler for heat. My only question is how you deal with parts of houses that are naturally cooler than other parts?

[@HeatGeek]

Balancing

[@paulrout]

Far too complicated for the average person

[@symonchester]

When the outside temp rises and the flow temp of my Daikin gets down in the high 20's is it normal that the heat pump short cycles a lot?

[@user-wd6zt3eq9x]

Hi Adam. A query for you. In my limited experience ( ASHP installed 3 weeks ago), the MMI information system is next to useless. I don’t know if you’ve looked at it. In theory I should be able to calculate my COP, from elec used and elec produced. However all figures are rounded to 1kwh increments, which is unhelpful. Secondly sometimes it doesn’t report energy used, and sometimes it reports energy used, when none was! The sum of the space and water heating varies from the sum of the two indiv sections. Daikin support told me it’s not intended to be used to provide this info ( what is it for then), can you cast any light on this. How am I supposed to calculate my cop. Please don’t tell me about all the wonderful third party add ons I find all that way to technical for me. It seems exceedingly remiss of Daikin not to include a tool that gives the cop, seems as we are all obsessed by it ( well I know I am). I can only calculate COP on a DHW process and then only providing I ensure I have a constant consumption baseline to work from, ie I’ve turned everything else in the house off barring the router. Adam can you help. Congrats on the partnership with Octopus by the way.

[@baronsilverbaron757]

I just had a Daikin Altherma system installed to replace gas. I have underfloor heating but never changed the temperature day and night because I found that you could turn the heating up or down but it takes quite a while to be experienced in the floor. I can't see that the Daikin would change this. I won't find out until the winter.

[@HeatGeek]

That's just underfloor hearing fir you. High mass

[@briangkehoe]

Can you do this for the Samsung Gen 6 also?

[@HeatGeek]

At some point sure

[@tiarockey6564]

Does the heat pump do air conditioning?

[@Lawrence7of9]

Regarding schedule controls, the app on smart phone for Daikin HP is easier & more accessible to customise. You can also tweak current basic settings, it’s pretty good. It won’t do everything the main controller can be great for average user/owner.

[@willking3239]

How do you have all those options on the display!?!? I have hardly any

[@colingrant325]

The temperature at bottom right (21). You refer to it as the room temperature but others have referred to it as the outside temp. Thus I am a little confused?

[@chijiokerichard375]

I moved into a new build with this daikin and within 2 months it stopped working . Little bell flashing and we have no heating , and no hot water.😢

[@nervousfrog101]

I checked the manual for mine(EDLA09DA3V3) and if I am reading it right it says the minimum temp flow for heating is 15 degrees and 25 for hot water. I hope I am right as my house was roasting in November with the flow set to 25 it took me a while to find out how to adjust the curve below 25 degrees. In installer mode, you can set a min/max for the curve and the min was set to 25. By the time I found out how to go into installer mode and change the setting it had cooled down outside.

[@simoncanfer5030]

Min setpoint for the heating room stat might be 15, but not the flow temp.

[@estebanjimenezmayans17]

Yes and how to deal with efficiency when my backup heater turns on because I fo not need flow temps above 25 degrees!??? What options do we have?

[@user-yx6un4ez8j]

I have recently replaced my Biomass boiler with a Daikin Altherma 3MA 11kW Heat Pump. I’m looking for some advice on any adjustments, if any I may need to make to my existing underfloor heating manifolds/flow meters to accommodate my new Heat Pump installation. There are two floors at the property, each has a Nu Heat underfloor heating system designed and installed some 17 years ago. I do not know the design or the operating temp that the system and manifolds and flow rates are set to as the original heat source was an oil-fired Rayburn which was subsequently transferred to a biomass boiler some 8 years ago. Each floor has a manifold and flow meters for each room on that floor. Each room has a thermostat electrically connected to a control valve on the appropriate manifold loop for that room. Each manifold has a pump to drive the water to and from the buffer tank The heat pump provides both heating and domestic hot water with the heating provided by a larger buffer tank at around 40 - 45 degrees. What adjustments or changes should I make to the existing underfloor manifold system to ensure maximum efficiency from my heat pump. The sort of questions I have will probably seem trivial and not be relevant to the specialists contributing to this site but as an example should I open the flow to max for each loop, should I eliminate the pumps that are provided for each manifold and rely on a single pump at the buffer tank that is switched on when the main control system demands heating from the HP? I understand and am for the moment happy with the concept that the existing room stats provide the over temp cut off point for each room. Any advice would be most helpful on what to do with the basic underfloor manifold settings would be much appreciated.

[@HeatGeek]

Watch the commissioning video

[@user-yx6un4ez8j]

@@HeatGeek Many thanks. Have not found any URL's dealing with this point so far. Could you point me to the video you believe will solve my problems.

[@HeatGeek]

@@user-yx6un4ez8j youtube doesn't allow links. Search 'heat geek 3 steps to commision'

[@user-yx6un4ez8j]

@@HeatGeek Sorry to be so slow on the uptake - clearly I need a Heat Geek! Trouble is, not many about in North Wilts. Thanks again. M

[@HA05GER]

any advice my mums got mitsubishi heat pump was fitted just over a year ago. it absolutely eats electric £160 a month dd and its a one bed bungalow. seems ridiculous when my 3 bed mid terrace hers is also mid terrace is only using £120 of gas with 6 of us. both houses are 60s era council property so comparitive in insulation. her property also has solar panels aswell.

[@edc1569]

Controls, weather compensation, is the solar working, does that hot water cylinder recharge when solar often producing, can you back off the hot water temperature, are there some quick wins you can do with insulation/drafts. Also don't forget you have an electric bill too, all that energy still goes into your house (minus an EV)!

[@HA05GER]

@@edc1569 it still doesn't make sense a one bed bungalow probably a third of the square footage of my 3 bed house of the exact same era built by the same council is wildly different. My gas and electric is now coming to about £200 a family of 6 where as my mum's bungalow is £160. I can't see that heat pump getting close to a cop of 3 when it's consuming all of that. I know it's well insulated loft wise and it's definitely not a cold or drafty house. When I last checked the pv was generating but being winter not alot probably 300w on average perhour of sunlight. There is no ev. Only thing she really uses is the TV which is a modern led TV. Her base load is probably well under 100w. All the radiators have been replaced for bigger ones when the system was fitted the only thing is that some of the old piping has been used wether that comes into play that much I don't know.

[@emdrum]

@@HA05GER Did you have a heat loss survey done of the bungalow? That should tell you the ballpark of what the ASHP should be costing. Turn off the ASHP and then look at the base line consumption - how much is being used without heating. Is there an immersion heater switched on somewhere? Is someone using an electric fire because they feel cold? Then turn it on and see how much it's using over the baseline. Buy an IR thermometer gun and measure the temperature of the flow and return of each radiator, then check that against the settings for the ASHP. That should put you in a better position to evaluate where the issue is.

[@HA05GER]

@@emdrum I haven't got a clue it was fitted by the council so don't know the exact procedure. From what I can tell nothing is being left on. It's a 1 bed bungalow so you can't really miss something being on. The only thing I can think is they only put it on just after she moved in and they are estimating the bills based on the previous residents with normal electric heating.

[@paulbennett2929]

Can you do one for NIBE?

[@radfoo]

Thanks, was interesting to see. I appreciate you probably shouldn't pick a heat pump for the controls but those looked nice with lots of features. Which heat pump has the best controls in heat geeks opinion? Thanks

[@HeatGeek]

Viessmann or vailant.. we chose the hp based on controls! And r290 also..

[@adamcole4808]

I have a Daikin ASHP, control are ok but fiddly. BUT does not calculate your COP automatically, grrrr. It does give you energy used and heat outputted but its very basic and you have to do the COP calculation yourself. Really hate this, all the data is there, they just do not give you good access to it.

[@radfoo]

@@HeatGeek brill, thanks from the info.

[@rachellane6726]

Hi guys, thanks for video! How to reduce the bar? Mine is set to 2.3. It makes really loud noises!?

[@Thegasman414]

Explain pure weather compensation ??

[@HeatGeek]

Please read our weather compensation vs room compensation article

[@Haik0]

Why don't ypu want 3rd party thermostats? What if I want to zone control? Or zone control is inefficient for heat pumps?

[@pepe_da_prawn]

Ideally you want an open loop system. In order for the airsource pump to be as efficient as possible we want a design as simple as possible. If you start closing down zones warmer air will rush to those colder areas therefore the heat pump is working harder to heat the home in order to get up to desired temp.

[@micheljansen85]

Hello Geeks, if you guys had to choose, for a badly insulated house (160m2 heated) which heatpump would you reccommand?

[@micheljansen85]

Oh, do take the „bad“ part with a grain of salt. According to the germans (where im living) my house with 10cm PIR flatroof insulation, 10cm underfloor insulation, 120m2 floorheating, 6cm cavity insulation, and 10cm pir roof insulation is badly insulated..

[@HeatGeek]

Vailant arotherm plus

[@LeiChat]

@@HeatGeek Third choice? If Vailant and Viessman exceeded the budget?

[@HeatGeek]

@LeiChat nibe.. but that's the same price

[@deekireland3682]

In my opinion the first statement you made is at best misleading or even wrong. I’m a big fan of Daikin,I’m retired, I’ve sold their products,I’m now retired and have just installed a Monobloc Daikin 3m to replace my Oil Boiler. However long before I even considered my recent purchase I had installed an excellent control system that provides me with full control of each radiator independently and individually. It provides me with Weather Compensation, Optimum on, Optimum off, geofencing, highly accurate PID control of each radiator. Daikin are great mechanical heat producing products but their controls are decades behind. Upgrade the home controls before doing anything else. I’ve moved my home built in 2006 with BER energy rating C3 to A1 as certified last week. 50 years experience in energy reduction on domestic and industrial applications are my qualifications.

[@EugeneLambert]

What's the control system you installed?

[@slihaven675]

On each radiator I installed a Tado radiator thermostat they connect via a hub to a Tado boiler controller. They look like thermostatic radiator valves but are a lot more expensive as they do much much more. They are miniature motors powered by aa batteries. Small yearly fee gives geofencing open windows algorithm etc. Tado say it doesn’t work with Daikin, it does and mine is connected for over a year. I’m on LinkedIn if you want more info I’m not a business just someone who likes saving energy. David Kohlbeck.

[@slihaven675]

@@EugeneLambertI recently set up Daikin weather control which enhanced energy saving

[@DorsetSaferRoads]

I'm still not convinced by closed loop weather compensation. Would much rather a PID loop that controls the flow temperature. That way if you get any solar heating of the house it backs off the flow temperature as required.

[@MichaelFlatman]

Any room stats should reduce flow temperature to suit.

[@HeatGeek]

Each property and user as a different solution and we went through variable internal feedback in this video. The only way you could ever be convinced is by trying it. We've been installing it for 10 years now so one of us is doing something different

[@edc1569]

Id be making use of that offset feature, get it dialled in nice, but give it lots of bandwidth to crank the flow temp up for when I've got back to a cold house, and likewise crank it down when I've had the log burner going.

[@anthonydyer3939]

Overshoot. Heating/cooling -> Overshoot -> Increase from 1 degree to 2 degrees. I find when the heat pump recovers from Frost Protection, or any situation where it’s been turned off, the flow temperature overshoots the setpoint and then the compressor cuts out before the flow temp has had a chance to rebalance. It leads to very choppy performance on frosty nights. But when I adjust overshoot from 1 to 2 degrees, there’s far less cycling going on. Interesting, my compressor often doesn’t want to drop below 2.3 Amps of load, especially above 7 degrees C, even if the flow temp has been running above the setpoint. Occasionally I see 1.3 amps, but not for long. Do these compressors have a minimum load?

[@gmac4737]

Steep learning curve

[@ksim_]

why all 3rd party controls sucks on Daikin units?: 1) Daikin is using a proprietary version of Modbus, and no one can create a reliable "not hacked" version of controls. 2) Daikin removed local API, so you are not able to control their units locally using WiFi 3) Cloud API requires signing NDA and, as all cloud-only things, sucks and no 3rd party can use them. I want to point out, it is not 3rd party controls that are terrible, it is Daikin that makes them bad by locking down communication protocols. And it is not like you always want Daikin controls with Daikin units, you are left with no choice in this question. How bad is Daikin's controls you can read in google play store where their app has a rating of 2 stars.