How To Overcome Client & Sales Objections Without Conflict

[@maxgoodwin8496]

Please do not clean up the channel! The best content is from the entire conversation!!!!

[@maxgoodwin8496]

Also thanks for continually educating and inspiring the lot of us. Always loads of incites and information, love the channel :)

[@trystonantol8685]

2020 anyone reading this - Usually they will release a shorter cut version and keep the original as well. It's super cool to know the futur never removes content

[@rikossp]

I totally agree with this entire thread. I love the shorter clips, cause I can share them with colleagues and bait them in. However I live for the deep long sessions! Much love for The Futur and the community!

[@TheLawind]

I love watching those 1hr + videos while I am working and even while cooking lol. I know what you guys are trying to do by distilling the content, but I think the original length videos have something unique to offer as well.

[@derdurstbursch]

Same

[@CrystalRicotta]

Totally cooking and loving this “my cousin is a designer” talk with Chris and Matt.

[@jermaine2712]

In my opinion, your long videos have a special value to them, mainly because we as listeners get to hear about the context, different perspectives on the problem that's being talked about and different ways of going about it, your experiences on it and what you've learned. That's why I as well as many other people love your channel and your content. Also the parts when you just joke and fool around gives the video more personal feel to it rather than being salesy like many short sponsored pieces of content that you see on the daily basis.

[@s1pk0]

Don't take down the longer video's :(. Maybe add them to a playlist or make a different account for long content. Long formats do work, see Joe Rogan's podcast kind of stuff. Everyone can find different kinds of wisdom in what is said, it might seem redundant to you or your team, but can help someone else. I also like the parts you guy's are just goofing around.

[@chrisgerrardcastro]

Totally agree! Always listening when I'm working.

[@theakwonderland]

@@chrisgerrardcastro me too! sometimes i let the long vids build up and listen to 2 or 3 during the day while im working.

[@xZOMBIETAGx]

I listen to them when I drive all the time. Love the length.

[@jessemalisa6804]

I agree. These long formats make my commute meaningful.

[@get8bit]

Same. I work long days and short videos changing frequently don't have the same retainment value for me!

[@ATBROW00]

Please leave these up. Sometimes I take notes, sometimes I listen in the background during work. Oftentimes I watch them more than once and get something new and useful from each watch.

[@bezbos]

Noooo don't take these down! I prefer full streams over bite sized pieces! If you REALLY must take down the video after 48 hrs, why don't you just unlist it and then leave links to it in the short clips?

[@thefutur]

That could work.

[@gvdjurre]

Yes! Great idea.

[@depth.4025]

@@thefutur Yes! Please do this.

[@jns08d]

Please do not take down ANY content, I love having the podcasts/livestreams going on in the background while I work, this channel is an absolute game changer

[@ravihooda3323]

Please please please don’t delete it master Do. (Kneeling)

[@happyjayden9665]

I would love to watch the entire video, not the short version. because what really cool about the long form video is the conversation that we have to see the context of the problem. Please my lovely uncle Chris, keep it there and maybe create another playlist so those who just want short form can go there and watch. I rather spend 1 or 2 hours to watch these kind of goodness instead of surfing around Facebook and learn nothing. Also nothing come instantly, so if you want something valuable, you have to be patience guys.

[@invi_carlos]

THis was gold. Another parallel can be drawn to the knife metaphor you gave: If, at the start of your livestream 400 people were watching, but by the end only 50 are watching, that tells you something: Only a small amount of people are willing to do what it takes to create winning strategies like this; an even smaller number from that 50 will actually implement what you are teaching here. Thank you as always!

[@thefutur]

You’re very welcome

[@cherryfelicya]

Thank you for not taking this video down,.. just saw this video, and I've experinced a lot of these objections, took it personally and become tongue tied from frustation,.. I feel like I've been mind shifted.. This gives me the tools to handle it better in the future

[@michellezareas8276]

Revisiting to fill in the holes in my notes. I would like to share, that I tend to feel resentful when a prospective price shopper/client approaches me. I always turn the work down because I do not want to feel this way! Sure disrespect plays s role, as well. My time is just as valuable as everyone else's. Thank you for affirming that my gut instincts were correct. It definitely bolsters my confidence. Love my sessions with Master Do and company!

[@thefutur]

if you feel resentment towards your client, it's a sign that things aren't working. time to change.

[@michellezareas8276]

@@thefutur No problem here, I refused to work with such clients from day one. I stuck to my price. That said, I was nervous about whether or not I was making the right decision. Along the way, you mentioned low value tasks, and I couldn't agree more! I consider these types of clients in the same category of low value tasks. Even at the start up phase, my time is better spent, elsewhere. Such as focusing on my own brand, services, business model, website, and business plan, etc. I would rather take your typography class than work on a low budget logo. It is more valuable to add to my skill set. Spec projects are working for me. Moreover, time is money, and at my age, I don't have the time left to burn! Lol.

[@NikkoNantone]

This is exactly the video I've been looking for, extended roleplays - especially from a student's perspective. A video idea I have would be the top 5 or so roleplays from this channel all compiled into one, with the different key takeaways. Also thanks for not taking this down!

[@bharatnarang8811]

Can you do it like Joe Rogan? One channel for full live streams and another for just the clips? Some of us love to go back and watch the whole Livestreams back 2 back

[@TheGrandMasterFunk]

I like this idea

[@diasslo]

You can make a new channel with the short versions, but there are people like me who enjoy the whole show... Seriously I love your content from top to bottom

[@thefutur]

Thank you

[@kingsleynthebolang]

I got up early just to get some fresh insights from the Futur. This has been one of the most thought-provoking presentations ever. I can't express my gratitude enough for all these eye-openers. Chris, you have set a high bar for the design community by tapping into the business side of design. This has been the missing piece in design school for a while. Great thanks to the whole Futur team. Y'all rock!

[@SmoothCityMoving]

Big facts!

[@AmandaJuneHagarty]

In my Second Life land biz we have a saying "chasing the bottom of the market is a losing game" we stick to our prices and focus on providing a rare and exceptional service to our residents (basically as long as they are paying their rent we leave them alone and aren't busy body landlords like other estates). And because of this we have had times when we lose clients and then they come back after a few months with horror stories about landlords that charged them below cost rates only to disappear along with the Virtual land in the middle of the night. So we also developed a reputation for being reliable. Now when we lose residents over price we just think "they will be back" and not worry about it.

[@angstrom1058]

"You are delaying the conflict to later". Great point!

[@samuri2011]

If i watch the Futur everyday, i feel like im going to school and getting a high quality education right at home. I actually learn from you all and feel more confident. thank you!

[@meetthemasters754]

Just a reminder: WE LOVE LONG FORM VIDEOS LIKE THIS!

[@michellezareas8276]

Just finishing up round two! I cannot thank you enough, Chris and team. I refer you to everyone. Your business negotiations apply across the board. Amazing, thank you!

[@brightonblogger]

Chris’s response to Matthew’s request to take part in a free pitch for a huge project was really insightful. When you hear it played out, and just how risky free pitching is for a client, it makes total sense. You can’t guess the best approach. And great to see Matthew fence with Chris ⚔️ !

[@thefutur]

en garde.

[@limberpasillas5801]

I'm for keeping the long content; play it in the background, jot down keypoints here and there but, the overall UX of the long 1hr+ content is life! Keep alive for The Futur

[@wngo70]

jeez this is so good more please

[@jalenthomas3102]

Chris makes me feel good about selling. I am just helping people find a product that is good for them, not selling.

[@beebrewdigital]

My hobby is just listening to Chris Do. Honestly, no better hobby out there!

[@mohammadmahbuburrahman8953]

We are so grateful to have you on the earth. You are my 1st choice as a mentor of mine who teaches me branding, marketing, negotiation, and business of design.

[@joekool5005]

LoL... This is great! Top notch. Having spent ten years as a new car sales rep dealing with all sorts of clients, this is gold. I also have a background in marketing, photography and design, so now I'm doing full circle now and back to working for myself. I agree with everything here and this is what I do. Also in selling cars, I used the consultative model with customers, never pushy, just guiding. Love your car buying experience. That is a rare customer but I have had them. Basically, I've had a quick chat, sat down, place the order and shake hands thanking them for their business. Done in five to ten minutes otherwise they're gone! Had to laugh.... I've used that line "I'm not in the proposal/quoting business" most of those are price driven and like you say, can we agree to do something together first is the best approach. Love Dan Lok, also Grant Cardone. Thanks for the amazing content. What you are doing is so important for your industry.

[@jamesewalker4445]

I love the strategy technique during the role play in which I read in the Win Without Pitching Manifesto! Great approach Chris!

[@earthnithipong]

This is why I become a fan of thefutur! the role play was super real. Love how you guys role!

[@2024Miracle]

Awesome content! During the “too expensive” role play, I would have told young Matthew, “you are clearly an individual who sees the value in paying more when purchasing a superior product. That is why you walked into Old Navy and purchased that gray jacket, as opposed to going to the Salvation Army where you know you could have purchased a similar gray jacket for probably much less.” 😂😂😂 j/k… great job guys!

[@gabrielcameron]

So blessed to be able to watch this video after the initial 48 hour takedown warning period. Thank you guys. And man, while Chris' conversational skills are well documented I gotta point out just how smooth Matthew is. Simply amazing content, and great roleplay guys.

[@KandiaHaynesworth]

LOVE IT! "I'm not telling you, I'm better.... But if you want me to do it.. It's going to be.." I LOVE THIS! LOVE IT! EXCELLENT!

[@fastfutureforwardbychristi9064]

after watching this episode and a lot of all the other great stuff, I just asked a potential client at the very beginning about his budget plus what kind of buyer he is:))) it was fantastic, because of this question the whole conversation went in the best possible direction ever. cause he was the kind of guy who WANTS to be a value buyer. Plus because of the question we were bothe able to go deep in our first meeting:))) thanks to you guys:))

[@nouram1879]

Omg! Pure Gold! Thanks for not deleting these longer videos! Love playing them while commuting or doing some work! Maybe in my free time too!

[@AmandaJuneHagarty]

When I used to have my store in the mall we had what we called the "Be Back Buyer" which I suppose could relate to the indecisive buyer. But we had a saying "the Be Back Bus is a one way trip" so we tended to try to get them to buy now and not get on that bus and if they left we just assumed they wouldn't be back. But retail is a totally different sales process LOL.

[@KingaGorski]

Ahh *so* much gold in these role plays.

[@eddiemickenberg]

I own an interior design company and play every role that it takes to run a design company aside from all of the design work. Your knowledge is very helpful. Thank you!

[@sumeetgupta77]

Love the roleplay, they are so informative. How does Chris maintain his cool when the client throw these questions, what he thinks while listening to the questions? I love the Futur

[@apiadept]

Pure Gold! Thanks Chris and Matthew!

[@koenvandenbrom9496]

Yes pls don't delete the long version...I love the long live-stream versions but don't always have the time to watch it within 48 hours!!!

[@missrockstarglamazon6846]

This is like university. I watch two a day . Been a great help thank you Futur

[@thefutur]

Thank you

[@GeorgePikalov]

That "do you like to gamble" question is genius! The conversation from this point can go two ways. If client answers "yes" - then he will have to be ok with risking by choosing you for this work, expecting a good outcome from it. If he says "no" - then he will have to secure the good result with payment whilst trusting you even more. Either way he is more inclined to hire you. If not, at least it is a good hook in conversation : )

[@WillZahra]

Regarding the roll play on speculative work for free ideas (1:25), I thought Chris handled it superbly. I don't know why people think he was being aggressive - he was being assertive, not aggressive - and it doesn't suprise me that in this day and age many people see assertiveness as being aggressive.

[@Storyraymond]

Nice! Experiencing memory lane! Even if I am aware of a lot of what you are talking about, being 48, it still really nice to be reminded. Because you always need to pick up your game if you want to be as good as you can be. So thanks a lot for sharing the good stuff!

[@thetypebeast]

Man I’m glad I hit play before 48 hours is up. I’m only in 25minutes and y’all have shared some great wisdom. This is why I subscribed. Also I’m glad you’re covering this topic.

[@NeonNation]

I really enjoy the long format! I rewatch them repeatedly (podcast style). Is there a way for the long format to exist in an archive somewhere, available to those who want it or to supporting members? I do enjoy seeing the chopped up version as well but long format is equally if not more valuable to me. Small videos are like the entrée while the longer videos are like the main course. Eventually I want the main course. :)

[@thefutur]

Good idea.

[@TheDannycoyne]

The small videos are the microwave version. The long form is that roast dinner. Much more satisfying. 👍

[@h.n.a.7820]

Obviously this was really helpful. I see a future when every designer has learned the value of their talent and design practice, like law practice or surgery, has established a reputation, and Chris will be called the father of Design Business. Now my question: In the beginning when presenting different kind of clints, it was mentioned that when talking to indecisive buyer who wants to shop around, tell him to ask few question from the designers he calls to see how their answers make him feel. I seem to be unable to locate those questions in the rest of video and I watched twice and took notes. Anybody can help me figure them out? did I miss it or it didn't fit in the time? will it be in a future video? Thanks in advance

[@bia6939]

I don't have the words to express the amazing content you guys are producing. Thank you so much for sharing it with young designers who are just starting out and do not know how to deal with clients. If I wanted to, I woulnd't even know where to find this information! Thank you

[@thefutur]

thank you. your words are very encouraging to us to keep fighting for the futur.

[@jdfleblanc]

The information in this video is so incredibly helpful. That role play was absolute gold.

[@TXL-]

There is a lot of value in this. Personally for this being a free coaching class. I love it..!!

[@thefutur]

Great to hear!

[@inglesfacilito]

I agree TheFutur, Chris does a wonderful job. I think Chris even shines more in long videos than short videos. I mean, not everyone has his ability to mantain that big level of focus and keep delivering lots of value info

[@thefutur]

thanks Victor.

[@davidsia8668]

One of the best video information for designers and artist. I’m gonna have to watch this many more times just to make it sink into my brain. You guys are awesome!

[@thefutur]

Thank you.

[@materym]

Chris, maybe you could consider creating a separate "archive channel" and migrate these unwanted videos over there? There's just so much value in your videos and some of us want to go back to them from time to time.

[@thefutur]

I think we plan to move them somewhere. Not sure just yet.

[@thomasallen1932]

Great job. I'd love to see roleplay with Chris handling objections from an offensive position though. So far the roleplays have been framed with the prospect reaching out. How about the other way around?

[@b_a_hockema]

Yes I'd love to see some RP like this. Our company goes out and pitches and i'd love to see how that pans out using these strategies!

[@marcinrzymek4082]

AMAZING! Appreciate your help guys. Those vid's are killing. Ive learned so much. This will definitely help me change my perspective and learn a lot and I mean A LOT!

[@HereForWisdom]

I’m not even in the design field and I still got so much wonderful information from this

[@doublemintmaple]

So glad you left the video complete 🙏

[@emotionalignition]

I'm going to rewatch this multiple times and take notes. The value shared here was on another level. Thanks guys 👍

[@abbeyrosenz]

Loving the lighting set up in this video guys!

[@thefutur]

Thanks.

[@LoboRsxS]

I just found this channel today and I've already watch 3 hours worth. These videos are extremely informative and amazing. Thanks Chris and The Futur team for such great content, learning a lot for free, I can't wait to try the courses out!

[@thefutur]

Welcome to the Futur.

[@thefutur]

@sanityissubjective, How did you find us?

[@LoboRsxS]

The Futur I was actually listening to anime OSTs and the autoplay stopped and I saw one of your vids on related. Either way I stayed up until 6am watching a bunch of The Process and your other vids. All the content is just amazing. Great work. No fluff, just solutions.

[@TheNightscene]

Love this episode! Just experienced a know-it-all and an indecisive this week that impacted me negatively. I've experienced them in the past but I think I was just in a bad mood to begin with. The know-it-all really irked me the wrong way though lol.

[@grandjette]

To me, this is therapy (CBT). My experience of Price Clients is like offering your generous hand and letting him eat my whole arm up to my shoulder. The resentments have prolonged. It's time to resurrect because we are all meant to live, not just survive.

[@Runitsyourmamarun]

Fantastic stream, you guys really do a great job with these role plays. They help give us a keen insight on what it really looks like. Keep up the work and when I can afford it I’ll be sure to support the channel, even well after I’ve learned all I can from you guys.

[@MarkSavant]

Great video Chris! Love the closing statements. Have to uncomfortable conversations now to avoid a very bad conversation with a client from hell.

[@carlraetzsch]

I love the long format! That is what attracted me to the channel in the first place. When I discovered those 1-2 hour discussions, I was hooked. I will continue to watch anyway, but you might miss more than a few new subs.

[@thefutur]

Carl. We still make them. They just disappear.

[@carlraetzsch]

The Futur i know... just sayin.

[@karenwangari2011]

C'mon guys! Some of us LIVE for these long formats! Beats doing a series binge any time of the day. Please don't remove.

[@enioluwaodunjo]

Full streams are the best. Please keep them.

[@ishtiaqhussain]

You can really start a weekly TV series "do VS clients"

[@Vince20ce]

This is so valuable. We gotta keep thefutur alive man

[@aliciatalia]

Goodness gracious - so grateful for y’all.

[@chrisdigiovanni3155]

If I could ask any future designers, any fresh students after college or even in college, please, please, please watch from 29:16 on. He is trying to teach you self confidence in your work and to demand your time's worth. Side note: Death to all logo contests.

[@robinsquares]

Super valuable indeed. Could you elaborate on "Death to all logo contests" please? That's an interesting statement.

[@joshuadiniz684]

Chris DiGiovanni yeah what do you mean by that side note? I’m curious

[@chrisdigiovanni3155]

​@@robinsquares Logo contests, where you submit near finished work for a proposed customer price in conjunction with other designers from websites such as 99designs, logo tournaments, etc, are the antithesis of valuing your time and work. Since you are not actually paid for the work, but submit your design amongst others in hopes of "winning" - is a ludacris idea. I think I want a new house, why dont you make some architectural plans with all these other builders, and if I like it, I will buy it. If not, you don't get paid for that time of making that instrumentive design. No builder would do this, why would a graphic designer?

[@robinsquares]

@@chrisdigiovanni3155 I agree with you completely when it comes to spec work. We should never do work for someone in the hopes that we'll get paid. Contests, however, can be quite different. They can be a way to share process with the community. It's a valuable display of how well different styles can work for one brand. It can also be a chance for people to hone their skills in a setting with no client. I think I'd rather say "Death to all free logo work"

[@jaychatfield9937]

One of the best videos I’m listen to yet..

[@komalupadhya4551]

thanks for not taking down the vdo.

[@roberttomsiii3728]

Just wanted to pop on here and reiterate. Keep the long vids. It's about all I watch/listen too. Cooking cleaning driving. No TV no movies (bonding time is and excepting to that rule) just long format educational content to fill that time

[@thefutur]

We are shifting to release more long form.

[@uncleanAlibertine1]

this is just pure gold in therms of value! great The futur!

[@valuxmedia9204]

There is an incredible about of information in this one guys. Do yourself a favor and buckle down with a pen and paper!

[@thefutur]

We tried to cover as much ground on this as possible.

[@FarmAnimalsShowNZ]

Wow. That student role play was amazing.

[@adoreddesigns5278]

Don't take it down please! such a good video!

[@yvidhiatama]

Watching this in 2021 and thank god the video's still here! Just a quick question based on the role play, how can I do this to a client who's just started a new business? Or maybe having a business but not having a high achievement on sales, but still needs a logo with quality? How can I convince the client with my price? Is there something that I need to adjust?

[@emlillthings7914]

800 ,,, and I watched/listened to the whole thing. If you guys still intend to chop up these when the stream is over, could you unlist the uncut stream, and put the link in the description of the condensed upload?

[@statusproductions5340]

We love all the content you guys put out ! I've watched this video at least 10 times so far

[@thefutur]

Thank you x 10

[@get8bit]

I know you can't use an actual client, but I'd be interested to see you invite your friends that are business owners on for sales role play. A non-designer subjects perspective may be totally different.

[@linsyraens6834]

In every video there is something new to learn. I started to call thefutur my bible :D

[@martinalefkanic]

Thank you so much for this video. You all are woderful.

[@KhadijahAbdulNabi]

Thanks for the heads up. Loved the intro to set the tone.

[@myao8936]

Thanks Chris for this video! Very helpful content 🙏💕

[@climbingmountains]

Question for The Futur. What is the mindset behind shrinking vs segmenting the scope of work? From my observation. Reducing the scope of the work isn't something Chris willing to do to lower the price. However, he does break down the overall project into smaller, less risky bites, by suggesting that you do only discovery or half a job. I think shrinking scope looks like: 100% = 1000, but now your shrinking it down to 100% = 300. While segmenting the scope looks like: 100% = 1000, but you can divide it into say thirds. So 30% = 333. Which gets the project into the clients price range without compromising your ability to grow the project. Does that makes sense? Is that right? What is the reason for favoring segmenting vs shrinking?

[@Em-lq4mv]

Hi! I literally never comment on any videos but I just had to drop by here to say your content is absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much for doing this.

[@thefutur]

Thank you.

[@Em-lq4mv]

Omg yall noticed me im cri ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️😭😭😭😭

[@mehmetkale9276]

This is gold, thank you! I need to rewatch it, never had so many valuable lessons in one session haha Go team🙌

[@thefutur]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@AdeFliesFPV]

THIS IS GOLD! Actually, it’s more valuable than gold.

[@thefutur]

platinum.

[@AdeFliesFPV]

exactly! @@thefutur

[@illdesign.studio8724]

Just leveled up, thank guys. I look forward to join your group.

[@thefutur]

alright! welcome.

[@xZOMBIETAGx]

Can you do a video on how to know if you’re overcharging? So many of your videos are about how to raise your rate, but there’s a number somewhere that’s too high to get consistent business in your area. How do you determine what that is?

[@thefutur]

if you clients say yes, you are not charging too much. if no one ever says yes, you may be priced out. 1. lower your price. 2. change your positioning. 3. find better clients. pick any option.

[@xZOMBIETAGx]

@@thefutur Great insight, would love more detail in a longer video than a quick three sentence answer :) If no one ever says yes, I might be out of business before I figure out the right pricing, you know? At least, that's my fear.

[@stripypaint]

Great episode, so much value as always, thanks guys!!

[@thefutur]

You’re very welcome.

[@relaximdointhis]

I’m the Know-It-All client for sure but I’m not annoying about it nor am I trying to do their job or nickel and dime EVER, lmao…please take the job off my hands. PLEASE this is why I’m paying you 😂 However, because I’m not annoying about it I offer a respect and enthusiasm towards it due to the knowledge I have that professionals tend to appreciate. Balance is always good 😂

[@ivandiaz007]

5.1k views and just 442 likes really?🤔 This advice is gold🏅

[@1Schrankwand]

You guys are awesome. This is also viable for interviews

[@theextramile7438]

My favorite best Thefutur video. Thx a lot you guys! One question, do you charge the prospect if you need to visit him to do your presentation to the other stakeholders? And how much would be the consultation?

[@thefutur]

Yes. Travel expenses need to be included.

[@ManhattanTina]

At the second interview at my current job they said, "we noticed that you don't have any corporate work in your portfolio." I told them I believed that was "my strength - I don't think like a corporation and I don't believe your customers either."

[@thefutur]

how did they respond?

[@ManhattanTina]

​@@thefutur they nodded and I kept talking and spinning it and they hired me. They also asked where I went to school (I didn't) and I spun that with "well, I've always been an artist and to say I'm self taught would actually be disingenuous; I'm constantly learning every single day and being taught by experts in my field via lectures, books, and videos - even when I'm working I'm always listening to podcasts or instructional videos." And four months on and I'm still at this job. I'm the only designer for North America (in NY) for an international company that was previously getting all their design from the London offices but now they're letting me produce a lot of collateral without approval - it's pretty shocking what they're letting me get away with. I literally redesigned their 40-year-old logo specifically for social media on my first day and we're using it! It's not brilliant but it's damn better. Also, thank you - I learn so much from this channel!

[@kkd3973]

Excellent content as always! I had a question about selling yourself with no experience. In both scenarios, it seemed that during the meetings that you were able to have some sort of leverage (i.e the brewery to provide evidence that you had done the process before and the professor's recommendation). Is there a difference in how you would approach if you had no similar projects and no references? In my case I am getting started by building a portfolio to attract the type of clients that I want. How should I approach these objections from my first client if I am starting with a clean slate? Thank you!!

[@thefutur]

yes. we have answered this in other videos where the designer has little to no experience. but we can address this again.

[@kkd3973]

no need if it already exist! I'll go back through the archives to find it.

[@kkd3973]

For the person that liked this comment, check out this link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/haWZoH-Mpsl6g80

[@fredhfs3]

@@kkd3973 second person who liked 🤚

[@thebestofmae]

I hope you'll do a roleplay of the discovery and strategy session. 58:57