How to plan 5k training

[@01lsw]

Perfect vid for me as I will do the same thing after I return to HK. I plan to work on a sub3:30 for my next marathon in a couple of years. My coach sets me a goal to run a 5K in 21:30 and a 10K in 45 mins. He also sets me a goal to run a 3K time later this year. This vid is clearly explained what shoes are needed and why training a shorter distance for a marathoner can elevate the performance to the next level. Well done!

[@SagasuRunning]

Takumi Sen 10s will be your best friend here. Though, for me, I think there is plenty left in the Vaporfly too.

[@RobertNaik]

Great video. I joined a running club and they are training for a 5k and it’s almost exactly the same plan you have made.

[@SagasuRunning]

This stuff in here is universal for the foundation of most plans. It is often adapted from there.

[@ianbrown9614]

I'd love a video about the differences of running an all out 5k in a racing flat (Takumi/Streakfly) vs a Super Shoe and which is really better for most runners a shorter distances. I'm sure your elites see a benefit but do we?

[@SagasuRunning]

I’m going to touch on this in a data video later this month. I’ll include TS10 data in it as well. No Streakfly running though as I’ve retire my last pair. Maybe Adios 8 though… we will see. Stay tuned towards the end of May.

[@mateuszmrowiec4265]

Thank you for sharing! I like your straight to the point aproach.

[@SagasuRunning]

Hopefully something was helpful here. 🤙🏻

[@klipk7296]

Video just at the right time, have been stuck at 25 minutes for months now. I'm back at the drawing board

[@SagasuRunning]

Hopefully something in here helps you get to your goal in some way. 🤙🏻

[@pseudoty]

Can I talk about watch dependency? Well here I go… yesterday on my long run my Apple Watch rebooted after 13K but I didn’t know how long it had been off for. I knew I should have gotten the voice prompt for 14 K by now and when I looked at my watch saw that my workout had ended. So I started a new workout but MENTALLY I was done it really threw me off. I ended up doing 18K but my speed was much slower and I felt physically spent. I have had an Apple Watch since series 2 and first time this ever happened while on a run. I don’t want to wear 2 watches I see some people use both Apple and Garmin but more thinking about no watch and listening to my body and enjoying the long run but there goes all of my metrics. Any insights? Those Adidas Pro 4 look promising 🎉

[@zhozhforever4047]

@@pseudoty Just try to go watchless for your easy runs and long runs. You could still time it but after it was finished. I've found that i could significantly slow down my easy and long runs just going watchless on my daily routes and recover better and feel better. If you're afraid going too fast w/o watch just call someone on the run: if you have to interrupt your sentense to catch some air - its time to slow down.

[@SagasuRunning]

This is good advice.

[@SagasuRunning]

I have run with two watches, when I was testing moving from Coros back to an Apple Watch… and I don’t want to do that again. It’s a pain to manage l, let alone the two watch tan lines it get… When my watch fails on a run, it has happened to all of them (coros, Garmin, Suunto & Apple) I just pause, restart a new run and get on with it. It’s frustrating but not the end of the world. Mentally being able to get past it is key. It takes some work. On my easy runs I wear a watch, mostly because I want to log the data and distance… but will only look at it once or twice on the he run. I’ve tried running without a watch, it is very nice honestly, but I am a data nerd and want the metrics (for reference) and the distance/time for tracking…

[@nikolasemmer1553]

Aiming for a 90 second improvement is quite an aggressive goal over 2 months! Would love to see an update in 2 months to see if you pull this off as someone who's been floating around 19:30 for a while off of very limited speed work faster than threshold and never 400s

[@SagasuRunning]

Yup, I know. It’s a reach goal for sure. I’ll definitely update in my monthly “Running shoe & training talk” videos and likely do a final review video of how this all went in July. Everyone will see the daily struggles on Strava as well.

[@mhargz]

Love your channel❤ If you wanted to throw in one-two strength sessions into the mix, Where would you slot them in? Would you drop one of the runs?

[@SagasuRunning]

I'd do them on easy days. In fact that is what I do often. 15-20mins kettlebell or bodyweight strength work prior to going out for my easy run. Thank you for watching the channel! 🤙🏻

[@nordicwilly6650]

You have ton of experience to draw on for this plan and it shows. That marathon aerobic base is going to help you tremendously. Pete Magill's Fast 5k book is a great resource that I keep going back to. He is big fan of hill repeats on the Speed Day to generate the strength and speed needed for 5k paces. I also enjoy experimenting with Easy Interval Method by Klaas Lok - banging out lots of 200s fast and relaxed. Great way to accumulate 5k race pace volume without breaking yourself down. As you mentioned, the wildcard is the heat in Taiwan. In watching my kids run high school XC, I am always amazed at how much heat affects their 5k times often by +30 to +60 sec. Their coach will often add "heat buffer" to their target times to manage expectations. Do you ever replace any of your easy days when marathon training with cross training? As on old guy with aching joints, I have jumped onto the Arc Trainer bandwagon, but I don't have enough running experience to tell yet whether it can truly replace mileage.

[@SagasuRunning]

I’ve read Pete’s book and have referred to it in the past. I’ll check out Klaas Lok. Part of this is about learning different approaches and how my body reacts. The what is definitely a factor. I have a video on how heat hits me, from last fall. It’s fascinating. I don’t cross train, other than I do yoga and some body weight or kettle bell strength work. I come from a cycling background and have no desire to go back to it. My wife and I live very minimally and travel frequently so having any equipment “at home” isn’t an option. I also despise gyms so going to one (unless it’s the odd hotel gym) won’t happen. Plus I love to run… the days I don’t run I just feel off.

[@alittleshepherd]

Thank you for a very detailed explanation! I’ll try to use this as a guideline to try and break 22:30 later this year 🙌🏼 How long do you think is the ideal recovery period between reps in those workout days?

[@SagasuRunning]

I use 90secs of standing or jogging, though if I need a little more towards the last few reps I’ll add another 30secs.

[@Otis220]

Is your interval & threshold recovery based on heart rate targets when you should start the next interval? Also, would the goal of these rest targets be different for 400s where you discuss speed is most important... so more recovery? As opposed to 10-12 minute repeats where maybe it is a target heart rate and how do you determine that? Hope this makes sense. Thanks.

[@SagasuRunning]

I roughly go by HR targets (using wrist based and use it roughly given its summer and heat humidity here in Taipei can be off the charts). I basically wait until my HR is near to 100bpm. For shorter work like 400s I find 60secs to be adequate. For 1k repeats I find 60-90secs (depending on weather and humidity). For 5-10min reps I’ve been finding 90-120secs good. If my HR drops quickly into the range I want I’ll start jogging until the “rest” period is over.

[@OdanUrr87]

I think I need to rewatch that mental toughness video again.😅 So do you work out the paces for each of your runs working backwards from your aimed time? I’m currently training by HR/Zones as “measured” by my Forerunner, but I’m starting to wonder whether I shouldn’t start targeting paces for my different workouts and listening to my body if I’m going too hard.

[@SagasuRunning]

Since I’m primarily a Marathoner…I work from my known marathon pace per /km. They adjust up and down from there. For this 5k goal I then made sure it ma she’s up to goal times based on what a few weeks of threshold running had shown me was capable from data.

[@OdanUrr87]

@@SagasuRunning I think I'll keep training by HR zone, use this training plan as a template, and adjust as necessary. I'm curious to see what the results will be 8 weeks from now.

[@SagasuRunning]

That works. But adapt and adjust as needed.

[@pavankumarreddy7265]

Thumbnail is awesome 👌

[@SagasuRunning]

I do like this thumbnail. The Typography still bothers me, but overall I’m very happy with it. It’s one I shot and evolved as I was shooting.

[@pavankumarreddy7265]

Everything about it is perfect

[@st4331]

I'm currently in week 5 of 12 in a Garmin 10k training plan. It's 5 sessions per week, but the structure is very similar. I'm targeting 49mins, I could probably go faster but it's the hot season in Thailand and my runs are in 36C (in the shade), with a 'feels like' temp of about 45C. Each week the length and target times are increased a little. I'm using ES3's for the faster sessions, but surprisingly I found myself reaching for the Mach 6 (wide fitting) for today's long run as it's become a comfortable stable shoe that I just forget about, and it's not bottoming out after 8-10 miles like the Mach 5. One point that I'm unsure about is whether age should play a factor in the training. At 60, I often hear I should be running fewer days. I find 5 days/week fine, sometimes wanting to run on a rest day. Do you have any views on this?

[@SagasuRunning]

The way I structure a week and build a plan is fairly universal. Most plans, for most distances, will start from the same place. Though many plans will add in rest periods and more specific workouts at key areas, something I’m not doing here for a 5k but do factor in for marathon training. We are seeing 30-32c daily now here in Taipei, though the most we will see is 33-34c in the worst of it, we rarely see hotter up here in the north. Nights and early mornings are 25-29c generally. It’s brutal but I imagine Thailand is even worst. As for age, well… as someone who is also a masters runner I will say that I keep an eye on my recovery. If I’m not sleeping well and waking up extra sore or with any odd pains that the massage fun or yoga can’t work out I will rest. As an older runner, the advice of “run less” is vague and general and it’s up to you to know how your body reacts. If 5 days feels good to you, you are recovering and sleeping well… go for it. Listen to your body though.

[@st4331]

@@SagasuRunning Thanks for the detailed reply. 5 days feels fine, and I use the rest days after the higher intensity workouts, so I'll stay with that for now. Hope to visit Taipei again soon; I loved Taiwan when I came 18 months ago just after it reopened.

[@pavankumarreddy7265]

Fortunately city where I live has 5k & 10k time trails happening 1st Sunday of every month ❤

[@SagasuRunning]

Not here. Good luck with those!

[@pavankumarreddy7265]

Thanku

[@rumblerumble2276]

What’s threshold pace mean? At 5:10.

[@SagasuRunning]

www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a20807282/threshold-training/

[@michael-qp9xd]

Hi - u show your just raced 5k pace per mile is 6:31. And then now at start of your 5k training indicating for your threshold training to have this at 6:26 so is faster. But i thought that threshold is where lactic start to rise rapidly so this at much slower pace then current 5k race pace. So threshold thought much easier then race pace. I’m sure that have wrong as you have much more running experience. Please could help me understand. I’ll look to for other video i think you mention on determining this pace. I know can get exact threshold pace info in lab but if can’t afford lab for this pacing - is best to determine by current 5k race pace or can use max heart rate or average HR for current 5k? Thank you very much.

[@SagasuRunning]

You are right. However, the 5K baseline I did had an average HR only 5 bpm over my LT HR and I definitely had more in the tank at the end (like I said it’s as rather unplanned). So my Threshold place in the plan is essentially the same as the 5k baseline that I did. On a day I’m better prepared, with cooler weather I can run a 5k at that pace in or on my LT. Regardless, I’m only using my LT as a reference here as I don’t get it from a lab, I did a TT to determine it. I’m more focused on the paces and gauging my RPE to how I feel to see how I gain fitness and reach my goal.

[@IndianaNaturalDog]

How many miles would you personally put on the VF 2s before you retired them? I've got about 290 miles on mine and still wondering if they've got life left in them for track workouts or interval runs.

[@SagasuRunning]

Generally speaking I’ve always considered 150 racing miles and 150+ training miles in any generation of VFs. Definitely after 150mi the snap/pop off the toe is gone, after that they are great long run and workout shoes until you wear through the outsole (which is squally what happens first).

[@welcometomathy]

Do park run

[@SagasuRunning]

Unfortunately, I’m not in the UK so there not an option. We don’t have the park run culture here in Taiwan.

[@Hana_shorts8436]

Thank god.. you didn't say '5K Marathon'

[@SagasuRunning]

Hahaha… I would never… it’s a pet peeve of mine.

[@MrEirik3000]

@SagasuRunning This looks like a good weekly programme, but there are things you can improve in my opinion :) Here are some tips from a Norwegian guy running 85 to 110km every week aiming for 16:20 in the 5k this year :D 1. THE single most important factor for what your 5km pb will be is your total volume of training at threshold. Therefore I question why you decide to dedicate an entire workout day every single week to speedwork? For the 5km distance your ability to not accumulate lactate is much more important than your ability to push hard while already having high lactate. For this reason I would recommend running a threshold workout on tuesdays aswell. This will also increase your weekly milage, and reduce the mechanical and muscular risk that comes with speed training at your level. I recommend that you only do this speed workout the last 2 weeks of your training if you mentally need the feeling of running faster than your threshold pace before your race. 2. Your easy days have too much volume. I am 100% sure that if you cap your easy days to maximum 60 minutes the quality of your threshold days will increase dramatically. 3. This one builds on 1., if you run your tuesday workout at your lower end of your threshold speed you dont need thursday off; which then means you can have a Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday model that again will increase your weekly milage without leading to increased injury risk if you are able to run your threshold workouts conservative and safe enough (measure your lactate! Aim for lacate between 2 and 3 mmol and you will be safe ;) ). Saturday you can push towards 6 mmol, so slightly above threshold but nothing crazy until your final 2 weeks before racing. Then you only run slow for your long runs (MAXIMUM 85 to 100 minutes!) , since the long run is just for general weekly volume and you are not running a 10km or half marathon. Long story short: Prioritize milage at threshold. Change your model to tuesday, thursday, saturday and then run faster at 60% of your volume the last 10 days before your race :) Good luck! I am sure you will reach your goal :)

[@aleghise9841]

Great advice for everyone!

[@SagasuRunning]

Thank you for this. The main reason I’m prioritizing 400s right now is that I need to work on running at those speeds, both form and building strength. My marathon training will almost never get into those paces and my body is just not used to it. I know the Threshold work I do here is just as/if not more valuable and I will possibly adapt the second half of this to be two threshold days. It depends on how smooth my form feels by then. Running at 4:00/km is fairly smooth for me, 3:30/km is another story. So I’ll work on it. The Thursday rest day is due to life… I’m not able to run that day due to a logistics, this has been my norm for a few years. So I have factored it in as my rest day for many years. I’ll have the occasional Thursday where I have the time and I can run, but they are rare. Per the easy days… I was thinking I’d likely run them on the lower end of the time range, especially the ones later in the week. Again, I appreciate the advice here. Super useful!

[@MidLifeRunner]

@@SagasuRunninglet’s goooo! I’m not an expert but running race pace and faster than race pace will improve form, get the mind and body used to those unfamiliar speeds so it’s not a shock on race day, and improve vo2max for 6-8 weeks. There is obviously a cap and runners already at their ceiling, should definitely transition to buckets and buckets of threshold, but rusty marathoners like us are going to get a big kick from vo2max intervals for a couple months

[@SagasuRunning]

Yup… agree. It’s (literally) a kick in a short shorts coming off of marathon work…

[@zhozhforever4047]

@@MidLifeRunner Agree that having marathon base you dont need that much threshold paced work. Some 5k reps like 12-16*400/100jg will also help with lactate clearance even better than true tempo reps. Even speedwork can be geared towards lactate clearance, example 15*200(40sec=3:20 or @1500-3000k speed) with 200 rest at 1min=5:00 or faster will also boost body's ability to clear lactate and ipmrove mechanics and speed.

[@ernestmabaso9267]

Excellent video. Practical and straightforward to implement 🎉

[@SagasuRunning]

Thank you. 🙏🏻

[@cassiesteenkamp1459]

Thank you. Good video.

[@SagasuRunning]

🤙🏻

[@zhozhforever4047]

Easy runs are way too fast. Should be 5:30-5:40 for this level and even slower after workout days down to 6:00/km. 3*10 min is too much volume for this level. 75 min easy runs are also unnecessary, 35-45 will suffice. You need to be fresh for 5k, not overloaded with junk miles

[@SagasuRunning]

I appreciate the advice. What would you recommend threshold days be? I’m also already considering replacing the long slow run with a second threshold effort. What would those two days be in your mind?

[@zhozhforever4047]

@@SagasuRunning You may skip main threshold and long run altogether in a week and replace it with marathon-paced run upto 30-50 min +wu|cd. I dont think its a good idea doing too much tempo for 5k. Even weekly is too much imo. Maybe alternate weeks with some q1 8-10 by 200-300s fast/2min rest. q2 - fast|slow tempo next week q1 some 400-800 @5k pace&volume with 100-200m jg rest and q2 some long hill reps 1-2 min with full rest (2-5 min) and its ok to skip long run in favor of workouts and do just easy runs all week at 55-65mins. SImilar to this struture helped me to push from 18-10 to 17-30 and from 37-38 to 36-25@10k just doing 55-70/km per week.

[@SagasuRunning]

Noted. I appreciate the advice. I’ll play with it and see how my body feels. This plan is already considerably less volume (by kms/mis & hours per week) than I normally run as a marathoner, even in base… so I’m feeling fresh going into these runs and recovering. I’ll see how it accumulates in my body over a few weeks though.

[@zhozhforever4047]

@@SagasuRunning i'm sure having run a marathon it will be easy for you to go do down to 5k and smash it!

[@SagasuRunning]

We shall see. Marathon work, even “speed work” in a marathon build is much less intense, even the paces at less intense (at least for me). Again though, this is a process and about learning… so I appreciate the advice and feedback. I really do value the interaction and things I learn in the comments here.

[@TroySpringer11]

Your visuals are awesome. Even if you say you’re not an “expert” on coaching I think visual design skills makes this some of the best content I’ve seen on training. Would love to see more!

[@SagasuRunning]

Ha. Thank you. I mean… I am a professional designer and started my career as a graphic designer. If there is one thing I am confident it’s my design sense and skillset. I’ll touch on this stuff off and on. It’s related to what I do on this channel but definitely not my focus.

[@dextersuarez9948]

Used to run 18 flat a few years ago, at 21:30 right now, needed a good layout to get back on track, thank you!

[@SagasuRunning]

Good like on getting that time back. 🤙🏻

[@vinaysoni2032]

You mentioned a long term goal of sub 3 hours, would love to hear your thoughts on periodization across that time, handling seasonal goals and fitting them into that larger goal.

[@SagasuRunning]

This is something I’ve been toying with discussing. In fact I recorded a video on it last year, just never posted it. I’ll work it in at some point on the channel.

[@vinaysoni2032]

@@SagasuRunning Great looking forward to it! Keep putting out the great content!