How to play over a diminished chord and half whole scale

[@Jameswongkl]

Can I just say how great your explanations is? The analogy you used, the explaining is just so easier to understand. As an educator myself, I’ve learnt so much. Thank you Brandon!

[@jazzpianoschool]

Wow, thank you for the comment James! Glad it was helpful!

[@adammorrison6505]

Great lesson, thank you for sharing all this rich information, lucid and joyful!

[@woytd6435]

It'a also nice to look for the diminish chords and major triads within the scale and play around with this:)

[@warrenwilson7836]

Thanks for your work on this. I’ve just begun incorporating diminshed scales (starting over altered dominants) and I love your idea that you have to establish a relationship with a scale. I think the reason the study of jazz is so satisfying is that there are so many tools to learn how to use - a rich mine for those who enjoy learning.

[@jazzpianoschool]

You are exactly correct! Thanks for the comment, Warren!

[@GeorgePatmas]

applying this to guitar practice! thank you!!

[@danieleoduro3829]

The best video about diminished scale ever watched, how I wished you were physically my jazz teacher. Subscribed!!;

[@jazzpianoschool]

;) Thanks for the watching and for the support!

[@thomasmartinscott]

I gave a thumbs up before the video started, just for the intro Music! Excellent Video as well. New subscriber!

[@jazzpianoschool]

Thank you for watching and for your subscription, TMS!

[@PIANOSTYLE100]

I think that is some of best advice I be heard on the dimished scale .. practice from every degree of the whole half. I have never tried that but I think that it might be good to start on the non stable notes like in c diminnished start on the d note. Of course your doing the half whole a step up. . But sticking to whole half would be best. I'm going to try this.. in writing this changing the left chords at will just adds a lot of possibilities. I'd bet Monk did stuff like that, but he probably new what it would sound like before he did it. Lol

[@jazzpianoschool]

Thank you! And indeed Monk explored many quirks... he was a master!

[@PIANOSTYLE100]

JazzPianoSchool.com - Learning Freedom (Online Jazz Piano Courses) definitely an aquired taste.

[@jaydnicolas]

Great Video, very informative Thanx

[@jazzpianoschool]

Thank you Jonathan!

[@moazzamabbas1112]

Very nice

[@jazzpianoschool]

Thanks, @Moazzam!

[@MoechtegernPimP]

4:44 the difference in sound comes from the fact that using the b9 leads to a C7#11b9 (Raga Mela Ramapriya) and using the #9 leads to a C7#11#9 (Hungarian Major). You add a 8th note to the scale of course to match the half whole scale.

[@MoechtegernPimP]

I wrote a piece that uses C7#11, 7#11b9, 7#11#9 and b9b13 ... I just love the sound! One more interesting thing is: the C7#11 scale is also called "Acoustic" scale since it can be created from the first intervals in the overtone-series. The 9th is the last note that appears in the overtone series to create the scale. So the C7#11b9 and C7#11#9 scales are really really close to the overtone scale :)

[@Bflatest]

Love it. I am a guitarist working on jazz Have been a blues guy for 30 years. I love this info. I do however need a simple example of combining it all like a simple chord progression using it all. So I can start shrining the Altered and the diminished scales together. On Dom7 I can use ALTERED scale or Half/whole and on Diminished chords use Whole/half ???? THANKS

[@jazzpianoschool]

Hi @bflatest: on dom7 chords you can use either one! Altered and half/whole scale both work. On dim7 chords whole/half. Hope this helps!

[@Bflatest]

@@jazzpianoschool I saw a video last year and I did not save it not sure who it was. It was a guitar guy. But he showed 3 melodic jazz minor scale modes over each chord each was more outside than the other. you know this idea???

[@ipudisciple]

@JPS Thank you. In the ii-V-I, you used a half-whole scale over the V7, but what do you generally use over the ii7? The half-whole scale has a major 3, so presumably that's out. (I mean, the half-whole scale also has a minor 3, but over a V7 this can be made to sound like a #9, whereas there's no useful enharmonic for a major 3).

[@jazzpianoschool]

Thanks for the question! That is true if you’re dealing with the changes on a micro level. An alternative would be to treat the whole 2-5 as just one long 5, which would then permit you to

[@jazzpianoschool]

use that half whole option throughout the entire 2-5. Hope this helps!

[@michaelcollinsmusic45]

thank you sir......I liked and subscribed .keep promulgating ur ideas

[@ejshelby5460]

Do you have a video on assortment of “patterns”? There’s a thing called pattern piano, what does it mean? Guitarists say they learn a bunch of “preset” riffs, I suppose there’s riffs for piano too you just have to transpose/modulate, I wonder if there’s a video of as many patterns as there are

[@PIANOSTYLE100]

It was a year ago that you commented. You might want to try this. Try the minor A blues scale A C D Eb E G over the C Blues progression. It takes some work but it is used by many.

[@PIANOSTYLE100]

Brendon nice tutorial.. great scale. In the key of , you can run swing arpeggios..c 6 c7 c dim g dim bb dim db dim three sets of flat 9.s. just getting started.. all kinds of altered altered chords and this is staying in definition no passing notes.. I can ma this clearer if anybody wants more.. like you program. Paul from Pianostyle100

[@jazzpianoschool]

Thanks for watching Paul and thank you for your comment!

[@Lihuezapallo]

what's the name of the intro song?

[@kwixotic]

Do you use these scales for playing outside a key(i.e., play a C 7th in the left hand along with a C# Diminished in the right)?

[@jazzpianoschool]

Certainly! You can used the diminished scale in that context to create a more altered sound, yes!

[@kennetheastman5703]

I noticed going down the scale the first four notes say in G dim form a G7 the next four are a D flat7 or a Triton substitution

[@jazzpianoschool]

Hi Kenneth: that’s an interesting way of looking at it. The G whole half diminished scale would work for both G7 and Db7.

[@stevenz9916]

7:38

[@PIANOSTYLE100]

The altered scale for c flats every note except it's name.. say c then bb then ab then gb then fb then eb then db. So ascending c db eb e gb ab bb c. Just remember flat everything except the root..when somebody says altered scale this should work on all 12. It appears to be missing the two and four and five and six and seven. . So it has a root a flat 9 a sharp 9 three flat 5 sharp 5 and flat 7.

[@jazzpianoschool]

Yes! That's an interesting way to think of it... thanks for sharing!

[@PIANOSTYLE100]

JazzPianoSchool.com - Learning Freedom (Online Jazz Piano Courses) Your welcome.. I have made the minors simple. when you press more. A large post will come up do not skip it. It is written in simple language and can forever clear up the three minors. It occurs to me that many people get confused about the three minors. If they take the time to read this over and over. Best to be by your keyboard This should be of great help to many confused people.. I want to pass this along...here is a way to keep the modern western system of minors straight.. think jazz and classical modification. All three main minors have the same first five notes.. that's big (1 2 B3 4 5) I hang my hat on that. I consider that a huge understanding or anchor. Assuming a seven note scale all we do is move the six and seven around , almost like Scrabble. If we flat the six and leave that seventh leading note alone., we get ta dah. the harmonic minor. Which is very exotic sounding. I can hear this scale quicker all of the minors. Now to get the natural minor flatten also the seventh. (1 2 3 4 5)b 6 B7) Now to get the melodic minor just make six and seven natural...(1 2 b3 4 5) 6 7. In practice, just think one minor note in the scale . . the minor third . So if you know your major scales you can swiftly know all your melodic minors. Eg In c: c d (eb) f g a b c. In d : d e ( f ) g a b c# . . In f : f g (ab) bb c d ef... You don't ever have to be uncertain about the melodic minor just change the third to a minor 3rd. I'm texting this .. but I'll double check everything and get on the laptop and make this more readable. tThanks for your great videos)

[@PIANOSTYLE100]

My last post will forever clear up minors and is long but worth studying not just reading.

[@jazzpianoschool]

Cool, thanks for sharing!

[@PIANOSTYLE100]

JazzPianoSchool.com - Learning Freedom (Online Jazz Piano Courses) I know they are long but I try to be simple and to cover the material so no nobody will ever be confused about what the three minors are and how the are formed . Sometimes I look at things that are very complicated and I say later.. but if somebody doesn't have time now.. at least put it under watch later.. all the best..

[@vladimirtsoy2888]

This is called Rimsski Korsakov composer scale and notice his Bee Fly composition

[@diplamatikjuan3595]

Are you talking about flight of the bumblebee? That's mainly based on the chromatic scale not the half whole scale

[@gokselcanerli]

Thank you so much for all your tutorials. It was really easy to memorize dim scales just visualizing them for me ..There are 3 similar shapes Shape 1 =c,c#,d#,e - Shape 2= f,f#,g#,a - Shape 3 =g, g#, a#, b. And one different shape , Shape 4 =f#,g,a,a# . There are 3 different diminish scale groups . C F G . Group C = shape 1 + shape 4. Group F = shape 2 with eb and remaining white keys except neighboor one (e) ) . Group G = shape 3 with db and remaining white keys except neighboor one (c) ) . For F and G shapes (g and a notes are excluded naturally) .Hope it will help another one .

[@jazzpianoschool]

Thank you for the comment!

[@citizencain454]

Love this angle!

[@digitaldesigner5284]

But teacher, what if I play the half tone-whole tone scale over a diminished chord, will it come out wrong? thanks

[@jazzpianoschool]

Thanks for the question - HALF-WHOLE will not work over the SAME ROOTED diminished chord. C half-whole (C C# D# E F# G A Bb) are not the notes you want for Cdim7, instead you want C D Eb F F# G# A B C which would be the WHOLE-HALF scale from the same root. Hope this helps!

[@PIANOSTYLE100]

These days I no longer have been doing octave type scales. I have found it to be not very effective..Pieces of the scale is more effective. Also a overview..Eg. C HW scale is basically a C13. (C E G A Bb) with a few extra tension notes. ( b9 #9 #11.. 8 notes in total. Great for blues etc. . Noodling around on E G A Bb is easy..Also On C blues progression I play the A blues scale. C blues scale sounds resolved.already if just using the C Blues scale. . I

[@jazzpianoschool]

Thanks for sharing this, @PianoStyle100! That's the beauty of this music - that there is not just 1 way to look at things. Everybody has something different that works for them, and that's what makes this music so fun!

[@BrianMegilligan]

I feel the need on behalf of all the traditional theory nerds out there to point out that the C fully diminished chord is technically not C Eb Gb and A. It is a fully diminished 7th so it's actually C Eb Gb Bbb (double flat). Even though it looks like an A on the piano. This distinguishes the C Eb Gb Bb which is the half diminished chord, commonly used in ii V's in the jazz world.

[@jazzpianoschool]

You're exactly right, Brian. Thanks for the comment!

[@onlimi616]

Nice tutorial. But I just wonder, how does anyone possibly remember these whole/half and vice versa scales in different keys? Ok, now I'm playing in Ab and I want to solo over a diminished chord. Ok, let's see that's whole whole half, or was that half whole, then half.... oh forget it the song is already 5 chords ahead!

[@jazzpianoschool]

Thanks for watching, @Onli Mi. Over time and through slow practice! The goal is to reach a level of comfortability where you have can easily hear and access those notes rather than have to think about constructing the scales on the spot. Hope this helps!

[@onlimi616]

@@jazzpianoschool Hi, yes that does help. I think what you are saying was that you were just defining the chord, but that is not the way you would think about them while playing, so that is what I was not understanding. I suppose I need lots more slow practice to be able to visualize the diminished scales while playing. Thanks!