How to properly tune a 2020 Street Triple R or RS 765

[@xander749]

Thanks

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

Thanks man!

[@hordboy]

You have to tune the low rpm/low throttle angle running with the L (MAP sensor) tables because the ECU is not looking at the F (TPS) tables to determine fueling in those ranges.

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

My tuner and I thought the same thing, and he tried that, and it didn't improve. We talked to Paul Holden over in the UK, that is a pro tuner and races these bikes... won a championship on one if I remember correctly, and he ran into the same issues, and in the end used a piggy back system to dial it in... Now that I have gone through this ordeal, I would recommend the PCV route, even if we didn't have that issue around idle. It is so much easier, because you make a change, it happens in less than a second, you test it, move on... The constant flashing and reflashing of the ECU through the slow bluetooth adapter, takes FOREVER... If you are just making a tweak or two, it's fine, but if you have to do a proper, full custom tune, you will be there for hours longer... The PCV just makes it that much easier and faster. Get in, tune it, get out and call it a day.

[@hordboy]

Hmm. I wonder if Tune ECU is accessing the correct table in the ECU. I had it happen with Tuneboy once on a KTM, they didn’t even realize it until I pointed it out. The base file is often filled with tables that are never accessed, or only under rare conditions.

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@hordboy We tuned the entire rev range and it all worked, except for that area. After talking to some other tuners that have struggled with the 2020 model, it was a common theme. So we went to the PCV and everything is good now.

[@mototronic59]

found out fan operating temp also didnt work, and with etv table, throttle response increased but I set 60% of max power on rain mode table at from 80% to 100% of throttle range, it still gives me 100% power at max throttle.😢 some works and some dont..

[@Narog-s1k]

​@mototronic59 what ???

[@MaxRay16]

Man the Euro5 had to make everything a mess for the new bikes. I was talking to you a bit on FB about maps with the SC Project, I'll definitely do this and just shell out the 400 some for the power commander. I'll be able to make use of it on my Daytona though so that's good. Also can you download the stock map from TuneECU so you have a backup of it?

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

You can't pull the stock map from the bike, but they do have the base map on TuneECU's drop box database. Use that to restore to stock if you need to.

[@wernerxldata]

Good info ! Can you change ignition timing as well in the PC ?

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

With the power commander, you would need to also buy the ignition module... Just do the O2 and SAI delete in Tune ECU, as well as your ignition changes, and then do all the fueling in the PC after you unplug the O2 sensors...

[@wernerxldata]

​@@Daves_Man_Cave I also found some companies that seem to be able to rewrite the ecu, wouldn't that be a better option than this ? Of course it's not easy to adapt stuff yourself but in my case I just want a good running map for a few mods and to compensate the terrible emission values for fuelling. Not looking for ultimate power and being able to change stuff more than once.

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@wernerxldata TuneECU rewrites the ECU and you can tune fuel with it. However, on that bike, it doesn't seem to be able to tune around idle... either the ECU prevents it, or TuneECU chooses not to, I was never able to figure out which...

[@wernerxldata]

@@Daves_Man_Cave As far as I could figure out TuneEcu rewrites part of the ECU, there's actually (professional) tools that are able to download the complete contents of the ECU in means of software and write it back... At least, that is what it seems to be : kzbin.info/www/bejne/pKnbnHSDar2pia8 If you search for street triple on his youtube channel you'll find examples of euro 5 remaps.

[@wernerxldata]

@@Daves_Man_Cave I bought a triple 765 rs today and did some more research on the software options for mapping. I found two options, one is dimsport, they have a device and software that’s able to a lot more than tuneecu. And the other is woolich racing, they have that stuff too. Not really meant for end consumers but dimsport does offer a end user device to retrieve the full contents of the ecu, send it to a tuner and write the changed map, it’s called my genius. I found some other brands too, like kess, but didn’t have time to figure out what it can do. Different brands seem to be able to connect to different ecu types. Not really a one product fixes all problems market.

[@greyanaroth]

Miss you on the triumph forums :) thanks for this! Did you ever figure/test to see if the AFR table changes can be used to make rough changes to the fuel tables?

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

They don't. The only way to tune the bike is to strap it to a dyno and tune it with the fuel tables.

[@greyanaroth]

@@Daves_Man_Cave what does the AFR table do then?? Literally no one's been able to give a clear answer to that question....

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@greyanaroth I am honestly not sure. It's just telling the ECU what the target AFR is, but I don't think that means what I think it means... I mean, the O2 sensor is a narrowband sensor. So it's range is very small. Additionally, the table for those targets, has values that are in the open loop section where the O2 sensor isn't even active...

[@greyanaroth]

@@Daves_Man_Cave true true. On the tune ecu forums, the best I could find was that changing those values ALSO changes the fuel being pushed by a particular %. I was wondering if you noticed any difference between the cells that were 14.5 when you started, which you changed to 13.75 and whether that had any effect

[@greyanaroth]

And yea, cheers for the piggy back system tip. My bikes been flashing at 3 minutes now since it once went into recovery mode. Don't know how that happened. But it's a bit tense every time tbh.

[@xander749]

Massive thanks to Dave for helping me out with this absolute legend 😅

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

Glad I could help!

[@f270]

Excellent info! Thanks

[@aaronsapp9669]

I have a slip on and high flow air filter on a 2020 RS. I have a power commander installed already but I need a map for it, any ideas where I can just get the proper map to add ????

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

The map is gonna be off quite a bit, especially down low. Best bet it to toss it on a dyno and get it tuned...

[@MA-bq8yg]

Thanks a lot. Great video. Do you think on the 2017 rs model, can you increase the low mid range power? Thanks

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

Not really. You can tune it and maybe pick up a little if the stock map is lean in that area... But the 2017-19 years are fairly well fueled from the factory. It's the 2020+ that is the pain in the ass due to Euro5...

[@JasonGraceAdventure]

Will this work on a 2021 Street Triple R (LRH)? I just replaced my stock with Akra same as yours on your Akra video. Another questions is, is this necessary to do for my bike? Only thing ive done is remove the baffle from my Akra and thats it. Will i have a problem if i didnt do this tune? Thanks..

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

Yes, it should. The easy way to find out, is to get the base map from TuneECU for your model and VIN. Open up the map, and scroll down through your ETV tables. ETV1 is typically Rain mode, and ETV2 and ETV3 are typically Road and Sport. Figure out which one is Sport, and look at the 90 and 100% columns... If the tables have 100 as a value up to like 6500rpm and then they taper off to like 65% or something up to redline, then yes, you can put 100's all the way up and reprogram the ECU to get that power back. Let me know if you need help.

[@JasonGraceAdventure]

@@Daves_Man_Cave Wow that was a quick reply thank you so much.. Anyway i'm in the process of ordering the ODB link.. WIll not do anything crazy yet and will just get the info you stated.. I also saw you have a video specifically on the R, how to unlock to make it same as RS. That is awesome..

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@JasonGraceAdventure What country are you in?

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@JasonGraceAdventure I just checked the US and Canada map, 31039... Same throttle restrictions on ETV3. Change the top half to 100, increase RPM limiter to 12,800 and push it to the ECU and you are good to go.

[@CubanRider]

Thank you, really good info. I installed the TuneECU file for the Speed Triple 1200 thinking that it was a massaged version of the stock file, but later found out these are stock maps 🤦🏻‍♂️ One of my goals was to remove the top speed limiter, currently at 159 mph indicated. Do you think messing with the ETV values might let me defeat it?

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

There is no way that I am aware of, to remove the top speed limiter. That is hard programmed into the ECU somewhere, that TuneECU does not have access to. There is a speed limiter on the Bobber, and even the new Street Triple RS... Triumph does this on naked bikes, because at some point, they become unstable and dangerous at those speeds. Besides, anything over 140mph on a naked bike is zero fun anyway. The only way that I know of to defeat it, is to remove the wheel speed sensors... but then you also lose ABS and Traction control, which you wouldn't want to do unless this was a dedicated race bike... and even then, you probably wouldn't choose that bike for that purpose...

[@CubanRider]

@@Daves_Man_Cave thanks, again, really good info. I have America's MotoGP track on my backyard and the S1000XR maxes out at 161, or roughly 155 GPS. The Speedy pushes thru the 150s with plenty of steam and actually hits 159 at the top of 5th, but then the limiter kicks in. It's a bummer because with it's power/weight I estimate I have enough room to take it into the 170s on the back straight. Again, not something that I would use often, but it would be nice to put up a fight on the straights to the very fast crop of sportbikes these days.

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@CubanRider gotcha... Without disabling the wheel speed sensors, I don't know how you can get rid of that limit... I know that Paul Holden races the Street RS over in the UK, and he had to disable the sensors to get past the 146mph top speed limiter.

[@CubanRider]

@@Daves_Man_Cave bummer :/

[@morkys2410]

Interesting about the maps for the R vs the RS. Can you not use the RS map in the R? Or do you have to make the changes in Ecu-Tune at each cell? Is it only fuel or throttle opening that appears different? I suspected the engines are the same (though Triumph specs 12.54:1 compression ratio for RS and 12.5:1 for the R, and 53.4 stroke for RS and 53.38 for R...possibly minute distractions to make you think the engines are different). All of what I read talk of the internal engine changes being the same for R and RS, though they do not say anything about the cams between models. They mention slightly less overlap for euro 5 goals and midrange improvements. Almost makes you think the engines would be essentially the same re cams. It makes sense that they could be the same in order for RS to have same lower and midrange. They may have different exhausts though, possibly beyond that carbon end cap. So what rear wheel peak HP and torque did you manage to get after tuning your 2020 RS? An RS owner in the UK managed ~130 rwhp dyno tuned.

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

Ok, one thing, do NOT try loading an RS map into an R. Dash is different and you may brick the ECU. If you open up the base map for the 2020 R and compare it to the RS, the fuel tables, and ignition tables, etc... are identical. For years prior they are different, due to the actual differences in the cam and motor. So what you want to do is find the correct base map that is in the R from TuneECU's database, and open that in TuneECU. Scroll down to ETV1 which is rain. Leave that alone and go to ETV2 and ETV3 and you will see how 100% throttle, and 90% or whatever the second to last one is, gives 100 up to 6500rpm or so and then cuts back down towards 81%. You just need to copy and paste 100 into those lowered tables, on the 100 and 90 column, and that's it. Save and send it to the ECU. If you want, I can make a separate video on how to do this?

[@morkys2410]

@@Daves_Man_Cave got it. The dashes are different, thanks for reminding me, as that would likely make them not accept each others full set of maps etc. I am in Canada and do not have a 2020 R yet. Deciding between R and RS. The RS brakes and suspension are great but I had a 2018 R and liked it and traded it for a Scrambler 1200 XC. I find I miss the 765R so am seriously thinking of getting a 2020 765 R or RS. Owning multiple bikes is a stretch for me so saving $3500-$4000 CDN goes a long way. Although there is no Track mode for the R, apparently you can use Sport mode, turn off TC and set ABS to Track Mode, so that's pretty decent. It seems based on your reports that you can also make the R engine performance essentially the same as the RS, and/or tune it to similar potential as the RS (using a dyno, ECU-Tune, PCV etc).... So this makes the 2020 R an attractive option for me. Sure I may try my bike on the track, but I don't need the best equipment to have fun, or at least, saving some ca$h may be more worth while for me given the similar engine performance. I was thinking if I bought an R and through on an M4 slip-on and maybe an air filter, used the ECU-Tune to match RS values, and then later tune on a dyno with PCV I could get a lot of performance from the engine. Race headers (no cat) would net another 3-5 peak HP but I would forgo that myself If I get to the point of using ECU-Tune on an R...I will check back with you. I wonder how similar Canadian and US models are. Possible identical or very similar.

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@morkys2410 The map for US and Canada is the same. It's one map that covers North America. So no difference. I would get the RS if going with a 2020 or newer model. Better brakes and suspension. But if you want to save money and the brakes and suspension are good enough on the R... Get the R and unlock the throttle restrictions and get that top end power of the RS

[@morkys2410]

@@Daves_Man_Cave So the only parts of the maps different between the 2020 R and RS are in the upper rpm, should be changable on the R and won't revert or be overridden by the ECU due to euro5 emissions etc?

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@morkys2410 This has nothing to do with fueling or emissions. I have a video processing now discussing and showing this. This is torque restrictions in the ride by wire system. Has nothing to do with the tune. You twist the throttle to 100%, and the ECU says, "Ok, I see that you are asking for 100%, but I am only gonna give you 81%"... What you ask for at the throttle, isn't always what the ECU delivers. This is how they create a rain mode. You ask for lots of power, and it delivers less. They do the same thing with the Road and Sport maps on the R. Good news is that you can easily change that, by changing that 81%, to 100%, and so on...

[@EvolvingMale]

So if I disable the o2 sensor and then get a power commander, how is it going to work if it plugs into the o2? Do I have to turn it back on?

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

You get the power commander, and then put it on the dyno and let the tuner tune it. You don't need the O2 sensor, the tuner will have either a wideband sensor to plug into the O2 bung, or put a "sniffer" down the tailpipe to get readings.

[@EvolvingMale]

@@Daves_Man_Cave ah, I get it. I was thinking worked more like a Rapid Bike tuner. Gotcha. Thanks!

[@aussiemotolife347]

I just bought a cheap Leo Vince slip on for my Street Triple 2020 RS… Is it actually safe to run without a tune… Frankly a power commander costs more than the slip-on and I was a bit stretched just purchasing the slip-on. They say it’s safe on the Leo Vince website but now I’m a bit disturbed about whether it will run too lean and damage the bike. Also running without the Db killer and with the dB killer…

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

If you aren't gonna tune it, then leave the air filter stock, leave the dB Killer in and don't remove the CAT. It should run "ok", but you will be lean and might feel some lean surging. If it stalls occasionally off idle, then get it tuned.

[@aussiemotolife347]

@@Daves_Man_Cave Thanks did you work out definitively that the supposed leave the throttle alone, wait till the fan comes on and then another 15 minute trick works or doesn’t work on a 2020?

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@aussiemotolife347 It doesn't. It's impact is so minimal due to the stricter EURO5 regs... If the fueling is off, it stays off. And that "15 minute tune" only ever applied to less than 20% throttle and even then, only under 5500rpm. Anything outside of that range, which is 4/5 of your fuel tables, was never touched. What's off, stays off...

[@aussiemotolife347]

@@Daves_Man_Cave thank you...I wish it wasn't so... but thank you!

[@danielholder3089]

Thanks, great video. I’ve installed a Yoshi AT2 slip on with stock headers, 2020 RS. Have also ordered a BMC filter. After watching this I should probably hold off installing the filter until I get PC and a tune lined up, would you agree?

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

The BCM filter is the smallest factor here, honestly. The stock air filters flow very well, the benefit of the BMC is that you wash it and reuse it. So long as your CAT is in, maybe leave the dB killer in the muffler until you get a chance to tune it. This bike comes with 2 CATs. You already removed one when you put the new muffler on

[@danielholder3089]

@@Daves_Man_Cave thanks, good to know. I put the db killer a couple of weeks back, even with ear protection my ears were ringing after 30 mins 😬

[@danielholder3089]

Looking at PCV, I can get here here in Aus, part number is 21-024. Is it a good idea to get the O2 eliminator also? Part number 76423007

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@danielholder3089 O2 eliminators don't work on the new Euro5 bikes. You have to disable the O2 sensors with TuneECU and then physically unplug it. The way an O2 sensor worked was it is basically a set of resistors. I want to say 330Ohm and a 1 Megaohm... something like that. Anyway, the Eliminator puts that resistance across the set of wires to fool the ECU into thinking that the sensor is still there. But because it's a set resistance, the "signal" never changes, so the ECU never tries to make any adjustments. But the engineers got smart, and so now the ECU looks for fluctuations in the signal. If it sees a static signal over time, it assumes that something is wrong, and throws an engine light. So you need to disable it in TuneECU and make sure you unplug the wire on the left hand side, down on the bottom under the stator cover. THEN you tune it with the PCV.

[@danielholder3089]

@@Daves_Man_Cave I owe you many beers man, give me a shout if you’re ever in sydney!

[@miniwarrior7]

What microphone is this? It's stereo and so clear

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

I recorded it with my phone. Not sure which one, it was like 6 phones ago....

[@drjmediauk]

Can I get a copy of your SC Project exhaust tune? I keep getting the stalling issue people were moaning about when changing down gears using clutch

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

I don't have it. Had a hard drive crash a couple years ago and lost some files. Also, you can't tune that out in TuneECU, we had to add a Power Commander and then use that to tune around ideal where the stalling from being so lean was occurring.

[@harmlessprankster8417]

I have a 18 RS. I find the throttle response/amount you need to twist to wide open quite slow, even in track mode. Since doing things like the speed tube mod are not possible with RBW, Could something be done with the etv tables to speed it up. Is that something anyone has played with?

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

Possibly. What's your 5 digit base map for your VIN? I can open it up and poke around in there and see if there are any restrictions holding it up.

[@harmlessprankster8417]

@@Daves_Man_Cave 30115. If something can be done that would be amazing. I really like the 765 but after coming from the 675, my only real complaint is the long throw on the throttle. It just feels lazy.

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@harmlessprankster8417 I will go check it out now, give me a few. I had a Daytona 675 and my wife had a Street R 675... I can't think of any area where the 675 was better than the 765 motor. For the Street, we are talking a solid 20-25hp difference, at the wheel... The throttle by wire might feel "slower" than a direct cable, but the performance that it actually delivers, is a lot more. Let me see if there is anything in there that can speed it up.

[@harmlessprankster8417]

@@Daves_Man_Cave I agree, the performance of the 765 is better everywhere. Many people do the tube mod on the 675, if something like that can be done with the ecu on the 765, I'm sure many people would be interested.

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@harmlessprankster8417 You are in luck, just made a tutorial on how to apply the more aggressive 2020 Street RS throttle table values to your 2018, and I am doing the tweaks now and can send you the updated hex file for you to flash to the bike and test out. But the video shows the differences, and explains what is going on, and how to do the mod yourself if you want. Give it a few minutes to upload and process.

[@PhysiqueSteve]

Hey Dave, it’s Steve from fb. How do I get ahold of you since you’re no longer on fb?

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

Give me your email addy and I will reach out to you.

[@djaminad]

Do you have any experience with Spark slip ons for these bikes keeping the main cat ? would you say they need a tune also?

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

For the most part, a slipon is a slipon. If the length of it and the inner diameter is the same, then it performs the same... A 3 in hole is a 3 inch hole... If you just do a slipon and leave the CAT in and don't put in a higher flow air filter... It will be a bit lean... Now, will it hurt anything? I don't think so, but it certainly won't be running optimal... These new Euro5 bikes are very finicky when it comes to mods and fueling... Anyone that tells you that it "tunes itself" doesn't know what they are talking about...

[@djaminad]

@@Daves_Man_Cave my bike is a 2022 st3 765 rs. I’ve sent an email to dynojet asking which power commander was available for this year model and their response was: “we cannot say that as while it may not appear anything has changed, it is possible for the manufacturers to make subtle changes that may not be evident, but change whether the Power Commander can work or not. Until we test the bike, Dynojet cannot support or recommend the installation of our products on an untested platform.” Corporate talk ? Should I just buy the 2020 version and don’t worry?

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@djaminad Yeah, they said the same thing in 2020 so I bought the one for the 2018 model, no issues. The units themselves are all largely the same, the difference is in the plugs. The 2022 has the same injectors and plugs, so it's all the same between years.

[@djaminad]

@@Daves_Man_Cave Thanks a lot. I imagined. On their site they only list PC6 now . Would it be ok to get that one instead of PCV ?

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@djaminad Yeah, it will work

[@Lordy23]

Hey Dave, I've done a bit of looking on the net and tbh I think you're the only one that will know the answer as I can't figure it out .. apparently the 765 has a speed limit in the ecu of 240kph (or there about) which I think I can confirm with my AIM solo2dl data and speed at a recent race circuit , and also direct email trails from a forum user from triumph confirming this but I can't find in the ecu where this limit is or if & where it can be over ridden ? I know the bobber has a limit that can be removed from your other videos . So do you know of a speed limit In the 765RS and how to change or remove it ? I have a 2017 RS Cheers

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

To my knowledge the speed limit on the 765's can't be lifted. It's hard coded from the factory for safety and stability reasons. The only way to get rid of it, is what Paul Holden in the UK does with his race bikes, and that's get rid of the front and rear wheel speed sensors. But doing that means no MPH on the dash, and no ABS or Traction control, so obviously not ideal for a street bike. Mine had that limit and honestly, I was fine with it. Going faster than 145mph on a light, naked bike, isn't much fun at all. haha

[@Lordy23]

@@Daves_Man_Cave yeah that's what I thought, mines a track only and loosing abs wouldn't be so bad but traction is a nice to have. I didn't think it'd be such an issue until you realize how easy it is to reach the limit , obviously road bike is a different story. Thanks for taking the time to reply and thanks for the informative videos

[@pekay26]

I had my 2020 RS tuned by DNK Tuneworks. They said that everything would be properly tuned just through TuneECU. Do you know anything about how DNK does its tunes?

[@pekay26]

Also, how were you able to verify that the low RPM/low throttle position range was not affected by changes in TuneECU? Thanks.

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@pekay26 First, I am familiar with DNK. I am running one of her tunes in my wife's Bobber. She has accumulated some good maps. But it is a canned map. If your bike has the same mods as the bike she made the map for, it will get you close enough. The issue with any canned map, is that if your mods are outside of the scope of the map, then you will need to tweak it. If the areas that need work are outside of that idle area, you can do that. If they are down low where my issues were, there is no way to fix it with TuneECU. If your bike is running fine, don't worry about it. :-) As for how we knew that it wasn't updating in that area on my bike... We kept adding fuel to that area, and saw NO change in the air to fuel ratio on the dyno. We saw the changes outside of the idle area, but on the problem area, nothing. We dumped 70% more fuel there, and nothing. Still stalling from being too lean. The power commander, we added 10% fuel and boom, it corrected and got to the 13.2-13.4 AFR that we wanted.

[@pekay26]

@@Daves_Man_Cave ah I see...forgive my ignorance as this is my first bike but how do you define “running fine”. If it is running crappy would it be obvious? I personally can’t find any faults in how it runs. Thanks again!

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@pekay26 Rough idle, flat spots under acceleration, hesitation, stalling... All signs of poor running. Her maps are usually pretty good. My bike we made significant changes to the exhaust and flow of the motor and so it needed a good bit of work.

[@pekay26]

@@Daves_Man_Cave I see. I put on an sc1-r slip on and sprint air filter. Haven’t had a chance to ride it much since I’m by the nyc area. Bringing it down to Fort Lauderdale soon though. Can’t wait to test it out. Thanks for the info!

[@rahulghai4532]

Hi , Greetings from India. I recently put a SC Project Full System on my 2020 Street Triple RS. I also added a DNA Air Filter & Rapidbike EVO(in Auto-Adaptivity Mode) to the mix. I am having Idling Issue(Cold Start) & Stalling Issue at below 1300 RPM. I was wondering if you could provide me with a Base Map to run with SC Project Full System. Thanks & Regards, Rahul Ghai

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

Unfortunately, that area around idle that gets so lean that the bike stalls... I was only able to fix with a Power Commander. We didn't use autotune, we put the bike on the dyno and dumped a bunch of fuel in that area to sort it out. I have never used RapidBike, and TuneECU couldn't fix it. At one point we dumped 70% more fuel around idle, and it had ZERO effect and kept stalling. So I had to get a Power Commander to get it running right.

[@rahulghai4532]

Hi , Thanks for the prompt reply. In my case, it's actually running Super Rich down low. I had to cut fuel in Idle Area & Voila! It worked like a charm. I rode the bike in neck to neck traffic & had no issues whatsoever. But I have been advised against inputting (Add/Cut) any fuel in Idle Area as it may damage Piston Rings &/or Engine Gasket. Had a word with Paul Holden, great guy, he mentioned the same that Euro 5 bike runs Super Rich down low. He mentioned to run the Lambda Sensor as Stock & run other connectors with Rapidbike. Rapidbike guys also mentioned to run it the way Paul Holden mentioned. Will try that out & revert. But God knows, I am worried sick about my Bike. Thanks & Regards, Rahul Ghai

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@rahulghai4532 Mine was the opposite. Too lean down low around idle. Talking about an air fuel ratio of 18+... so dangerously lean, and was causing stalling when I would pull up to a stop and pull in the clutch, the motor would just die. Added fuel with TuneECU, no change. Installed a Power Commander and added fuel there, fixed.

[@rahulghai4532]

@@Daves_Man_Cave So it seems like Fuel Modification is a solution to this mess. But the million dollar question is it's long term effect on our bikes' engine. Thanks a bunch for sharing your experience. Thanks & Regards, Rahul Ghai

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@rahulghai4532 Tuning the bike to run properly, is always good for the motor long term. Too lean, runs hot... Euro5 is all about emissions... It's up to the bike maker to figure out how to hit those requirements, without sacrificing performance or reliability... It's a balancing act... The problem is that it's right on the line... and doing a full exhaust and air filter, often tips the scales into the bike not running right, or developing issues over time.

[@andylam4350]

I have a quick question if you don't mind answering. I have a 2018 RS model that I would like to have the ECU tuned. Do I have to worry about this or should I just send the ECU in and have them tuned it and mail it back to me?

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

The 2018 is EURO4 and isn't as finicky as the new EURO5 models, so tuning it is much easier. You should be fine, if they have a tune for your setup, go for it.

[@EvolvingMale]

Do you know if a tune is needed for an RS with just the SC s1 slip on with s-curve and a DNA filter?

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

If it's a 2020 and up model then yes. Prior years you could do the "16 minute tune" or reset adaptations and it would be "close enough"... Not optimal, but it wouldn't be lean enough to hurt the motor... The 2020+ models are Euro5, and are gonna run way lean with that setup, so you will want to adjust the fueling...

[@EvolvingMale]

@@Daves_Man_Cave what do you suggest? Just the SC project S1 and DNA filter. I didn’t change the headers

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@EvolvingMale Knowing what I know now... Use TuneECU to disable O2 and SAI and extend the rev limiter... Install a Power Commander and hand it all to a good local tuner to do his thing.

[@EvolvingMale]

@@Daves_Man_Cave thanks. I'm gonna do that tomorrow

[@dominikscholl2938]

Hello guys, I also have a street triple r and remaped it with ecutune. what is important is the R has other ETV 1,2 and 3. ETV 1 is street. ETV 2 rain. ETV 3 is sport. so please program in ETV 3 to 100 percent throttle valve. Everything worked for me after about 15 minutes upload. I also made air fuel from 14.5 to 13.75. best thanks to the video. greetings Dominik

[@dominicmaio9076]

Do you know if you can just use an o2 eliminator and SAI resistor plugs? Is TuneECU just removing the error codes from having them(O2 and SAI) unplugged when you flash it or removing actual written code in the ecu?

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

TuneECU turns off the error codes for when you unplug them. If you leave the O2 sensor in, the ECU will try to use it, even if you disable it in TuneECU. O2 eliminator plugs no longer seem to work on these new bikes. The ECU, if it sees a constant resistance, assumes that something is wrong, and throws a code.

[@dominicmaio9076]

@@Daves_Man_Cave Thanks. I'm looking to tune my 2021 in September. Will the ecu prevent you from tuning if you have the code or can you still tune with the sensors unplugged? Sounds like tune ecu is just preventing a check engine light, but still reads the sensor signals.

[@dominicmaio9076]

​@@Daves_Man_Cave did you have to do a throttle calibration on your pcv and if so do you know the voltages? Are they the same as what tuneecu displays with just the key on for the street triple without starting the bike? I'm going to be starting mine in a few weeks with an autotune. A bit concerned since you said yours was pretty lean at idle.

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@dominicmaio9076 If I remember, there is a "calibrate throttle" feature on the PCV, where you enable it, and then twist the throttle 0-100% a couple times and it reads the voltages and sets the end points.

[@dominicmaio9076]

@@Daves_Man_Cave do you recall if you did that with just the key on or did the bike have to be running on a dyno? I got mine to read correct throttle percentage, but the min and max voltage values on pc5 are much different than tuneecu. Love all the recent content on the, daytona, speed twin, and yamaha.

[@PhysiqueSteve]

Hey Dave, did you unplug the o2 sensor wire under the tank (inside the frame) or the o2 sensor plug itself (attached on the exhaust)? Did you remove the wire as well of left it on the bike? It looks like the wire that’s routed up into the bike is taped up with another wire so I’m not sure which one to pull out

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

The plug is on the ledt hand side of the motor, right below the stator cover. It's right there, no need to remove the chin fairing. Unplug it after disabling it in TuneECU. Then you can unscrew the O2 sensor itself and plug the hole with a bung plug you can get from an autoparts store or Amazon. I left the wire harness and plug there near the bottom of the stator cover, and just taped it up with electrical tape to keep water from getting in there, and zip tied it out of the way so it doesn't flop around.

[@Street765R]

If my 765R got dyno tuned on stock ECU by experienced tuner let's say, can I save his map somehow in TuneEcu app or my phone and do some changed like increase rev limiter ? How about turning off SAI if I do not have SAI kit on the motorcycle at all? My bike made 129hp/87nm and it's much more quicker, throttle response is great, no more lean at low speed/rpm, but no idea what's my Vmax.

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

You can have the tuner send you the map file he made. its in the ECU, but TuneECU cannot take a map from the ECU and save it. It can only push a map to the ECU. If he can send you the tune file he made, then you can modify it and resend it to the ECU.

[@Street765R]

Just checked : - rpms are 12 650, so still not max - fan 103 - etv1 70-85% & 100% - etv2/3 both columns are 100% - o2 & SAI are not turned off (o2 unplugged anyway) - AFR table looks quite weird, like more than half of the space is 14,5 and later drops to 12,5-12,8 Not sure what to think about it...

[@guardenful]

Hey man thanks for the video, do you know anyone who "unlocked" his R and it worked? I'm getting one in june, so I'm really interested! Do you know if Triumph can detect that you messed up with the ECU when you get the bike to a dealership for 1000km maintenance for example?

[@guardenful]

Nevermind, I didn't see you made another video on the topic, and you answered my question in the comments. You said they can know how many times the ECU has been changed though, what would be a valid reason to have this number higher than 0? Wouldn't it be enough to break the warranty?

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@guardenful One write isn't gonna void anything. Every time a dealer updates the ECU, that also goes into that count. 1 extra write in there won't make a difference... Now, if you were tuning it as I was and they see 27 extra writes... yeah, they might question it. haha Also, one of the guys from the Triumph page on Facebook did the mod, and it worked beautifully. This is not a new mod, it's been known for other bikes like Thruxtons, Bobbers, Speed Twins and Tigers... I just happened to go into a Street R map to see if it was there as well, and it was.

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

-1 on the front is fine, but it does make it a bit buzzy on the freeway. I went with +2 on the rear and that seems about perfect. These bikes have a top speed limiter that you can't get rid of. About 144-146mph, so lower your gearing just enough that it hits redline at that speed. For the filter, any of the usual brands... K&N, BMC, DNA or Sprint. As for exhaust, depends on your budget. If you are gonna get a PC-V and have the money and plan to do a proper dyno tune, then go with a full system. Arrow, Akra, SC Project, etc... Use TuneECU to disable O2 and SAI, and then do the rest on the PCV. Make sure that once you disable O2, that you actually unplug and remove the O2 sensor itself... Even when it is disabled, all you are really disabling is the warning light that comes on when you remove it. If you leave it plugged in, the ECU will see it and try to use it...

[@radicalkonrad765]

Is there a way to increase the limiter now

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@radicalkonrad765 Yeah, pretty sure that increasing the rev limiter has been there a long time

[@toppo-ducati]

Hi can you send me the pc5 map you use ? so ive got a start point

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

Couple issues with that... The map is in the PCV and I don't think that my Macbook will talk to it, Also, that map is based off of a partial map in the ECU. If I can manage to get the PCV map out, I can import it into TuneECU and have that make a new base map... But just sending you the PCV map wouldn't help much because it is only half the equation in my case. Some of the tuning was done in TuneECU and some in the PCV... If I had to do it over again, I would just use TuneECU for disabling O2 and SAI and that's it, and then do ALL the tuning with the PCV. That would be easier, faster, and simpler to share with people...

[@toppo-ducati]

@@Daves_Man_Cave ok thanks ive got a pc5 and 02 blanking plug , also got the auto tune module , but never used it as yet got it for my 19 765rs but now own a 2021 one and the pv5 is the same for this new bike , so was thinking of trying it

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@toppo-ducati I have never used auto tune, so I can't say. I think that I had a GSX-R750 that the previous owner had a Bazzaz box with auto tune on it, but I took off the auto tune and put it on a dyno and manually tuned it, and picked up 7hp...

[@BodyPress91]

thank you so much my dear. i have lerning much from you

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

My Dear? That's an odd way of phrasing...

[@rodrigogoni6743]

Oh the myth of arrow map. I have a 2018 765 R. I pass energy from the car and burn the dashboard out. Do you now If will be enough with jus buying a new dashboard panel? I connect one from a tiger and display turnes on but obviously engine didnt start

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

Unfortunately I have no idea with regards to the dash, but my gut tells me that it will need to be the right dash for that bike for the ECU to talk to it, initialize it, etc... I don't even know if you can do that yourself, to be honest, or if it requires a dealer....

[@rodrigogoni6743]

@@Daves_Man_Cave ok, thanks for answer

[@viktorask]

At 5:10 you say dangerous lean. Its very very wrong. F table or I table will not make you lean nor rich by it self. F and I tables it's just basically what is set for AFR, if AFR say 14.5 then F table looks in to these table and constantly adjusting to 14.5, if you set higher or lower ECU will still make 14.5, and there is noooo way it will go over 14.5, if you set way off in F table you get error in dash. You can easly monitor this, put on idle, AFR would be 14.5 and then change say 10% up or down, then open short term fuel trim and see how much ECU adjusting injection timing, if you set to high it will be like in STF -14% if you set even higher like F table STF will be like -20%, but this -20% it just ECU lowering injection timing to make 14.5 AFR in the compustion. So set what ever, there will be never lean or rich, unless you change AFR table. Triumph did very clever with this.

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

No, it was dangerously lean on the dyno. We had a 5 gas analyzer plugged into the header pipes and the AFR was reading around 18+. The motor would stall when you pulled up to a traffic light and pulled in the clutch, and it did this after we pulled out the O2 sensor, and disabled it in the software... so the ECU was not making ANY changes to any trims, because it had no means to do so. It no longer had an O2 sensor installed. I don't know why you think it could never be lean or rich. it absolutely can, and was. If you disable O2 and physically remove the lambda sensor, and you go and dump 50% fuel up top, it will be stinking rich. If you put -50 in the trim tables up top, it will lean way out. It won't matter what is in the AFR target table or what the ECU thinks, because the ECU has no way of knowing what is going on once you remove the O2 sensor...

[@viktorask]

@@Daves_Man_Cave yes if no O2 sensor then for sure ECU has no way knowing if lean or rich, then just looking boldly what's in F or I table. In reality I found hard to understand why would need eliminate O2 sensor and risk to damage engine and other problems. To me it's looks like worst decision. If you need more power just adjust AFR to say 13.5 and then in F and I table finer adjustements to mach STFT close to 0%, O2 sensor is just peace of mind knowing you get what you set as it constantly monitoring. Great video, thanks very much for putting .

[@Daves_Man_Cave]

@@viktorask Because the O2 sensor doesn't do what you think it does. It's not "self tuning". It's a narrowband sensor, not wideband, so it's range of measurement and adjustment is VERY small, and it only operates in a small portion of the map. Go to any brand of bike, and when your tuner puts it on the dyno and tunes it, the first thing they do is remove the O2 sensors.

[@viktorask]

@@Daves_Man_Cave Another thing is there is company like DNK tuneworks where they offer to map ECU without putting on dyno, just remap yourself or send, it just shows there is no need Dyno as ECU learns on it own.

[@viktorask]

@@Daves_Man_Cave Not true. ECU combining data from MAF (if exist), MAP, O2 sensors and adjusting perfect burn for set AFR. You can take spark plug any time and you will see perfect color plug (this is just one indication that ECU does what it's supposed to do.), for another you can hook OBD2 and see in life how STFT and LTFT combined with O2 oxygen range using from 0% till +-100% to adjust perfect burn, it's call adaptation Status and if adapted it shows as 0,% means injector timing always trigers how much fuel inject perfectly. You can also read more about that in the link bellow. If you remove O2 sensor ECU will stop adapting burn and just blindly use F and I tables.