How To Reduce Oxidation in New England IPA - Brew Dudes

[@ZedTubeGaming]

Really interesting discussion, great video guys! I have had several NEIPAs with underwhelming results because of oxidation. I can or bottle my beers from my brite tank, what I have found works best for me is to fill the brite tank with sanitiser and purge with o2 then I do a closed transfer from FV to brite tank using the PRV on the top of the tank to expel the co2 as it fills with beer from the bottom. I use a bottling/canning gun once the beer is ready to package purging each can/bottle with co2 before filling. Another thing to note is that I always dry-hop at day 2 or 3 while there is an active fermentation happening so that any o2 introduced with the dry hop should be used up by the yeast in the ferment. My last NEIPA turned out great so i think this process works well (for me anyway) Something I read about recently on a forum somewhere (cant find the source) was a suggestion to use magnets either side of the wall to attach your dry hop bag on the inside of the FV (a sanitized magnet inside the hop bag and another on the outside) when you pitch your yeast. When you are ready to add the dry hop you remove the magnet from the outside letting gravity drop your hop bag into the beer, that way you can add a drop hop without having to open the FV - I am going to try this on my next brew as this is a novel approach and removes another potential o2 source.

[@BrewDudes]

Yes, that magnet trick was mentioned in other comments. Appreciate the note! - John

[@chamiboy1]

Hey , great video, this is my experience on bottle condition NEIPA, i fill bottles to the very top and never had bombs (first time i did it was only one bottle and keep that bottle in a safe place covered and no issues), also I'm starting experimenting 0.5-1g of ascorbic acid per gallon of finished beer and had no oxidation on bottling from a bucket, cheers.

[@BrewDudes]

Filling the bottles to the very top shouldn't increase the risk of bottle bombs normally. Thanks for the dosing info with Ascorbic Acid. Cheers! -Mike

[@aaronsams350]

Thanks for this! As a fellow chemist, I really appreciated the discussion of free-radicalization and the divalent cations. I have been really frustrated with all my hazy IPAs oxidizing very quickly. Fortunately, I tend to drink the beer before it gets too bad, but I'd like to get through a keg before the hop profile dies and long before I get to the notes of cardboard. I've long been considering getting a bigger CO2 tank and pushing everything rather than racking by siphon, and I think this might have pushed me to making that decision. Keep up the amazing videos! They certainly have helped me become a better homebrewer.

[@BrewDudes]

We have some closed transfer videos coming up where I use one technique that doesn't require much extra CO2 aside from a fully purged receiving keg. Cheers! -Mike

[@aaronsams350]

@@BrewDudes Excellent! I look forward to checking them out.

[@keifereef9673]

Always something to learn from your channel, and I always thought co2 was heavier 😬, I use a plastic bucket with tap to transfer into the keg through the keg post after pushing sanitiser out of the keg with co2, and have a keg post on the bucket lid so I can push co2 into the bucket, also when dry hopping the hops are suspended on the lid with magnets until I need them to go in, no reason to open the lid until the fermenter is empty. Great channel dudes keep the vids coming!

[@diverbob33]

Me too Keith Aggett and it's mentioned in many of the homebrewing books out there as well.

[@BrewDudes]

It is mentioned in many books. Often just rephrasing what's been heard or said before. -Mike

[@BrewDudes]

CO2 and Air will layer in under perfectly undisturbed conditions. But in real life there is too much disturbance for it to remain that way. If that wasn't the case all the CO2 in the environment would be sitting here at the surface of the planet and the "air" would be above us. Cheers! -Mike

[@keifereef9673]

@@BrewDudes , ah thinking of it like that makes sense, cheers

[@diverbob33]

I love it when Mike starts talking chemistry; it always brings back horrible memories from my college chemistry classes! For one, I remember walking into my first biochem class and seeing a bunch of dudes with beards, briefcases, and thick glasses and I thought to myself man I'm screwed!

[@BrewDudes]

HA! Thanks funny stuff. Thankfully as a biochemist I was never a briefcase beard guy, at least not when I was in school. The glasses and beard have caught up to me. Cheers! -Mike

[@SuziFranzen]

I'm attempting my 1st run @ and NEIPA and this helped me greatly! Nice Job guys and Thank You!!!

[@BrewDudes]

Glad it helped! - John

[@johncrawford8317]

I’ve had great success bottling NEIPA without noticeable oxidation. I rack into bottles directly from the tap of my fermenter. I put priming sugar (~1/2tsp) and a tiny pinch of SMB into every bottle first, then use a bottling wand attached to my fermenter spigot to fill bottles from the bottom. Cap immediately after filling. No bottle purging with a beer gun necessary.

[@BrewDudes]

Yep I didn't mention SMB because I am still trying to really understand the chemistry there. But that is a popular approach as well. Thanks for mentioning it. Cheers! -Mike

[@jamesweltz4844]

Thanks, this is a great discussion. EDTA is a great idea to chelate some of the catalytic divalent cations, I will have to try that. As seen on brulosophy, I have used potassium metabisulfite (campden) as a reducing agent with a lot of luck at concentrations significantly less than many commercial wines. I think a combination of EDTA and metabisulfite would provide excellent flavor stability.

[@BrewDudes]

As long as one is OK with adding these type of additives to their beer the chemistry is sound on making it work. Lots of good ideas. Cheers! -Mike

[@GuilhermeArantesPedro]

How many grams of EDTA do you use?

[@TheKlamminator]

I use absorbic acid and close transer. Those two things really helped my oxidation problems. I've also pressure fermented in a keg which has also had good results.

[@BrewDudes]

How much ascorbic do you add? Cheers! -Mike

[@jeremyroenick2202]

@@BrewDudes I go for 0.1 grams per litre if that helps

[@scottn1au]

Another interesting topic, great job. For bottling best way is to ferment and carbonate under pressure in the same vessel and then fill bottles with a counter pressure bottle filler from said vessel. Absolute zero contact with o2 this way.

[@BrewDudes]

Good advice! -Mike

[@fredrikwesterberg5523]

I ferment under pressure directly in the corny keg with a spundit valve. I've cut the dip tube so I can serve directly from the keg or bottle with a beer gun. No transfer = no O2

[@BrewDudes]

Very True. I was just thinking of trying this for NEIPA the other day. Cheers! -Mike

[@diverbob33]

I also really appreciate Mike's comments about ascorbic acid. There's another YT channel were the guys not only recommend it but they say that always add it to their kegs of any IPA they brew as a standard practice. I'm not going to name them but they also have their own brew pub (lucky stiffs)!

[@BrewDudes]

We are aware of that channel. As a scientist at heart I try to only discuss stuff from a position of understanding the science. There are lots of sources out that there just repeat stuff without really understanding if what they are saying is true. That said I also believe a lot of brewing is artful. If adding vitamin C in the mash or keg works for someone, great. Keep doing it. I just like to understand why. We like to talk about stuff on this channel from a position of experience, not necessarily a position of expertise (or ideas masquerading as expertise). Cheers! -Mike

[@anthonymcgann459]

@@BrewDudes if you add lemon juice to guacamole then it stays green and does not go brown. I think it is common practice to use acids for this purpose, so makes sense it would work in the bottle bucket. Protect your IPAs. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to support using ascorbic acid. I am just wondering about taste.

[@ChuckUnderFire]

In my experience the Starsan I have keeps for WEEKS. If not more like months. I basically always keep it in one of my kegs and rotate it around with pressure transfers from keg to keg and top it off to the VERY RIM for the little bits that are lost. So one 6 gal batch of starsan will last me at least a couple rotations through keg cycles. I only toss it once it looks funky (which takes a while when it only ever touches clean kegs) or if the pH rises out of range (3.6+).

[@BrewDudes]

Starsan will stay good for a long while if you're water is very soft. I also tend to keep it around and then redose it with the concentrate with 10% of what I'd normally need. Starsan turns pretty cloudy with our home water here so I am a bit cautious about how long I keep it around. Cheers! -Mike

[@ChuckUnderFire]

I was gonna ask about redosing a cloudy batch. Wasn’t sure if the “clouds” are problematic or if just bringing the pH back down with a little dose does the job just fine. Seems like it would use a lot less.

[@herbstava]

Liking the chemistry talk here fellas! Regarding the divalent cations though, you mentioned Zn(II) and Mg(II). Both of those cations are redox inactive at the temperature and pH of beer (and really most conditions on Earth!). The thermodynamic "well" for both of these cations prevents any redox chem. Additionally, neither really like to grab molecular oxygen at the concentration that it would be at in the liquid phase (pretty low concentration and they don't have any unpaired electrons where oxygen does). I would imagine that the Fe(II) and Cu(II) present are the perpetrators for superoxide formation (as seen with wine and widely utilized as cofactors for enzymes). I've been wondering though; do you guys think that the oxidation seen with hazys is the oxidation of polyphenols to quinones? P.s.- by every 10 degrees C the rxn increases by 2x. This is just an approximation but in practice it's actually pretty good!

[@BrewDudes]

Thanks for the info, great stuff and good fodder for me to look into more deeply. As for the polyphenols vs. Quinones I've wondered the same thing but I haven't seen anything definitive yet to help me make up my mind there. And I knew when I said it I was messing up the degrees C and rxn velocity but my heart was in the right place! Cheers! -Mike

[@Shreddah]

The correct way to add asorboric acid is on the cold side, either when pitching the yeast, dry hopping, or when bottling or in the keg. I had great success with these methods, even when bottle conditioning. Don't know why you only brought up adding it to the mash.

[@BrewDudes]

Thanks for the info. We discussed using it further upstream because at that time someone had asked about that in that application. We just didn't cover the better option of using it downstream as you mention. Thanks. Cheers! -Mike

[@dwainpannell5208]

Here’s a note I received from Joe Formanek (home brewers extraordinaire and rep for Brewtan B): You are exactly right! The divalent ions such as Cu or Fe+2 interact with free oxygen in the system and via Fenton’s Reaction processes generate free radicals which cascade to oxidize the system. Reduction or removal of these ions reduce the incidence of these reactions regardless of the level of oxygen present. Remember, though, that not all ions are removed, which is OK because some are important for proper yeast functionality. So a combination of oxygen reduction and ion removal is the best case scenario. Tannic acid is not so much an oxygen scavenger as it is an ion remover, so if there is oxygen present it will not have as much of an effect. This has worked well in systems where there is an inherent high level of DO due to equipment used. Using Tannic acid as a mash water treatment helps remove the divalent ions right from the start of the mash and reduces the free radical cascade right from the start. Cheers! Joe

[@BrewDudes]

Thanks for this reference. I had forgotten about Joe F's work on this stuff. Cheers! -Mike

[@jimmythekidd78]

I don't currently keg and just use PET plastic bottles as I'm just starting out doing 1 gallon BIAB batches. To avoid oxidisation I fill the bottles from the bottom trying not to splash. I then remove the bottling wand and squeeze the bottle so the beer is at the brim of the bottle. I then cap it off with a screw cap whilst the bottle is still squeezed. The bottles are misshapen after this, but as the beer carbonates the bottles expand out again to their normal shape which also gives a good indication that carbonation is happening.

[@BrewDudes]

That's an effective way to at least purge out the head space. Nice. Cheers! -Mike

[@Shreddah]

The correct way to add asorboric acid is on the cold side, either when pitching the yeast, dry hopping, or when bottling or in the keg. I had great success with these methods. I have seen quite many split batches experiments with asorboric acid as well. I also never had problems with bottle conditioned NEIPA's oxydizing. Nowadays I keg the beer though. Don't know why you only brought up adding it to the mash. I don't know anyone who does this.

[@BrewDudes]

I agree. We focus in on the mash because it was a question from a viewer long ago. Thanks for adding to the conversation. Cheers! -Mike

[@andrewlutton4684]

Instead of siphoning from fermenter to keg, I have just invested in (not used yet) some John guest fillings to make a spigot near the bottom of the fermenter. I intend to clip it straight to the beer out side of the keg and leave the pressure release valve in the keg open. Hopefully a fairly clean transfer with benefit of less cleaning, however expecting some additional losses from the fermenter.

[@BrewDudes]

Cool idea. Let us know how it goes. Cheers! -Mike

[@thetommyandbobbyshow]

Love the reviews, guys! Keep em coming!! We should have you on our show one of these days!

[@BrewDudes]

Send us a message. - John

[@jafarym77]

I haven't brewed this style yet, but when I, I'll brew 3 gallons and ferment in a corny keg. Then do pressure transfer to my mini 2.5 gallon keg. That's the plan.

[@BrewDudes]

Fermenting and transferring all from a keg is a great way to maintain a fully closed process. Let us know when you give it a try! -Mike

[@dml510]

I stopped making neipas when I bottled cuz after two weeks they were always oxidized. Biggest change for me was Kegging and capturing co2 with a blowoff into a Mylar balloon from my carboy for when I cold crash and I now do closed co2 transfers from my glass carboy. I do the keg filled with starsan and push it into another keg with co2. I’ve had neipas in my kegerator for over a month and their still fresh as the day I transferred.

[@BrewDudes]

Nice. Thanks for the comments. Cheers! -Mike

[@beeroquoisnation]

I started watching you guys in my quest to find info on fermenting in kegs. It might be easier on the beer to introduce the beer to a keg from the kettle via the dip tube. Just a thought. Hazy or NEIPAs aren't really my brew. I could and most likely am wrong.

[@BrewDudes]

I've been thinking of doing more keg ferments so that might make a come back here. Its just that my gear is dialed in for a certain batch size and when I've fermented in kegs before I felt it worked best on a smaller scale, ~4-gallons. Maybe if I scale brewing to 8 gallons I could fill two kegs and try different yeasts or dry hops. Cheers! -Mike

[@beeroquoisnation]

@@BrewDudes Do you find that your blow off fills with wort and fouls with keg fermenting at 4 gallons?

[@jdmlong]

I don't do an actual *closed* transfer, but I do purge the keg, and use another hose to push the CO2 from the purged keg gas post back up into the top of the fermenter as it drains directly (and slowly) into the beer post on the keg. It's exposed to air very briefly as I pull out the airlock and insert a new airlock with the gas tube tight on that center post of the 3-piece airlock. I'd say it greatly reduces oxygen exposure, even if it doesn't quite eliminate it. I've only been transferring this way for the last 3 batches, none of which was a NEIPA, but it should be a process improvement over my last NEIPA. All this, plus using magnets and hop bags for the dry hop so I don't have to open it up.

[@BrewDudes]

Very nice! Cheers! -Mike

[@mrdespizeme]

I'd have to say, the best way to bottle condition would probably be to do a pressure ferment, and fill directly from the fermenter with a gun. Capping is of course still going to be an issue, but at least you'd minimize all other sources.

[@BrewDudes]

Good advice! -Mike

[@poisonpotato1]

Can you purge bottles the same way with a small two hole stopper and a beer gun

[@iflanzy]

My last 2 basic IPAs have oxidized, which is quite disappointing. I think my problem was that I used a basic siphon to go into the keg. I'm hoping my purchase this week of an Anvil brew bucket with its racking arm will help with reducing oxygen exposure so I can finally try brewing a NE IPA.

[@BrewDudes]

You have to be moving beer into a completely CO2 purged vessel too! Cheers! -Mike

[@dazza9360]

Nice vid dudes! I see Gash Slug has just done a vid where he mentions the use of Sodium Metabisulphite as a O2 scavenger.

[@BrewDudes]

That's coming up quite a bit, but its nothing new and it works. Wine makers have been adding sulphites for decades to offer shelf stability. Maybe brewers are only now starting to catch on. Cheers! -Mike

[@WreckedBrewery]

Great tips! Cheers guys!

[@BrewDudes]

Dude! -Mike

[@oldschoolman1444]

I use a keg to bottle from, I purge the bottles with co2 and cap on foam. I also transfer from the fermenter with 1psi co2 to the keg, the orange carboy caps work well to set that up. I do keep them refrigerated and so far no cardboard taste. Probably not perfect but do the best to reduce oxygen exposure.

[@BrewDudes]

Not perfect but I suspect its enough as I've done something similar and its seemed fine. -Mike

[@nickbarley3037]

Have you tried using ascorbic acid to remove chlorine and chloramine in your strike water, as opposed to campden tablets?

[@BrewDudes]

No, but I think the chemistry is a little better with campden, then ascorbic acid at removing those. And I am not altering the base water pH any vs. using ascoribic. Albeit very slightly I would think. Cheers! -Mike

[@thomasfrank1227]

I'm about to keg for the very first time, and of course its a NEIPA........ :-) I can't close-transfer so I'll do what you suggested. In all seriousness, is that short time exposed to O2 going to make a difference once she gets inside the keg with the lid closed and headspace purged. Tom from New Jersey. (Thanks guys)

[@BrewDudes]

Be as careful as possible. Minimize splashing and fully flush the keg before filling. You should be OK. Just don't expect to hold the beer for months on end. Oh and keep it cold. Cheers! -Mike

[@markwilliams5654]

I use open fermenters I do 4 days fermentation then keg it with nitrogen and co2 and chill it looks like orange juice I use beer gas

[@BrewDudes]

interesting use of beer gas. I need to try that sometime. Cheers! -Mike

[@59apachestepside]

Great timing for me as I'm planning to brew my first NEIPA this weekend. Thanks for promoting the use of CO2 and closed transferring. I always chuckle when I see YT videos of brewers transferring into corny kegs with a hose and through the open lid. So when are you guys going to perform the EDTA dosing test?

[@BrewDudes]

yeah, gotta source some food grade EDTA, then ruin a batch of beer to test how well this EDTA idea works. Cheers! -Mike

[@GuilhermeArantesPedro]

Do you suggest how many grams of EDTA???

[@3rwparks3]

In the past, most of my oxidation issues were caused by auto siphoning. I had the worse luck with those damn things. Once I switched to a CO2 transfer system, I never had another bad batch.. Really, people still use buckets. I use a five gallon carboy. with the CO2 transfer to bottle. The only part that sucks is washing bottles..... But I only brew 15 gallons every two months.

[@BrewDudes]

I wonder how many off tasting batches have been created due to the auto siphon. I used one for years and realized that thing was alway sucking are somewhere. I hated trying to pull a standard siphon so I stuck with the auto siphon longer than I should have too. Cheers! -Mike

[@3rwparks3]

@@BrewDudes I still have one, but it only transfers Star San solution.

[@patrickbarnes140]

Have you tried adjusting the mash bill to reduce the number of divalent cations. I've heard that rolled oats are high in manganese

[@BrewDudes]

I have heard that too. I was planning on some beers where I limit the oats and see what type of NEIPA I can get. Cheers! -Mike

[@tman9338]

Big eye opener for my IPA’s. I’ve been pushing for 20G batches but may want to do staggered 10G batches to keep beer fresher. Can only keep2 Corney kegs cold at a time. The other 2 stay at garage temp 68-75 Deg. until space is avail. Any ideas for 2nd 2 kegs?

[@BrewDudes]

Hey T Man - not sure what you're asking, but I will give it a shot. I think for multiple keg storage, the keezer is probably your best bet. - John

[@tman9338]

@@BrewDudes Thanks John! After seeing your video, it makes more sense for me to stick to 10G batches to reduce oxidation and shelf life of my beers. I’m thinking it probably wasn’t the best to make 20G batches and have 2 Corneys sitting @ room temp for 2 months wait for their turn in kegerator. Especially when doing high gravity Neipas

[@sandergroot7329]

I transfer it into a keg that is filled with CO2. It will last for 4 weeks. After that the beer is finished :-) . The same for bottles. Fill them with CO2, fill the bottle with beer and top it with a little bit of CO2 to be sure. After 6 weeks it is still fresh!

[@BrewDudes]

Sounds like you're process is dialed in! -Mike

[@SouthRiverStudios]

Is there a process to reduce oxidation on multiple dry hops in a plastic carboy? I have a mesh screen hopper with an agitator. I don't use the agitator anymore because it gave me a very oxidized beer. I keg as well. I'm about to do a NEIPA and I'm concerned about the oxidation during the dry hops

[@BrewDudes]

The only suggestion would be to rig something up with some tubing off your CO2 regulator and be purging the headspace in the carboy as you add the hop screen. Won't be a zero, but it will help purge that O2 as the hop screen goes in. Cheers! -Mike

[@SouthRiverStudios]

@@BrewDudes that's what I was figuring. I have the depth charge system. I'm just going to be adding CO2 while barely cracking it and putting in the agitator. I don't go crazy with it and create all kinds of bubbles. Just enough to get the pellets hydrated. But it disturbs that imaginary blanket of CO2 on the bottom right? 😬

[@loki8883]

What are your thoughs about kegging with sodium metabisulfite to reduce cold side oxydation?

[@andrewlutton4684]

I would also love to know peoples thoughts on this. My understanding was that oxidation prevention was its specific use in wine making.

[@BrewDudes]

While we haven't done side by sides and really experienced using it that way I can't say for certain. It is a great hypothesis and something worth trying out. Certainly the wine side has been doing it for years. -Mike

[@andrewlutton4684]

@@BrewDudes brulosophy.com/2019/02/11/post-fermentation-oxidation-the-impact-adding-sodium-metabisulfite-at-packaging-has-on-beer-exbeeriment-results/ looks very interesting. Definately going to give it a go.

[@jasonfrost8428]

Do you guys cold crash a NEIPA? Great videos guys, thank you!

[@BrewDudes]

Not as a focused step no. I mean it usually drops a few degrees on its own before I move it to a keg. I cold crash in a keg before I add the dry hops usually. But it depends on whether one considers cold crashing on or off the yeast to be the same thing. Cheers! -Mike

[@thebackyardbrewer5611]

I use SMB in my hot liquor to deal with Chloramine in my tap water, doesnt it also have anti oxident properties?

[@BrewDudes]

It does but I don't think it effectively survives the boil as an antioxidant. It becomes spent. Adding some at packaging is good insurance. Cheers! -Mike

[@Soupy_loopy]

You had me at heavy metal coolator!

[@BrewDudes]

Nice! -Mike

[@Bigpete9000]

Why not take a page from the welding trade where the oxidation process is super sped up. How bout exploring using Nitrogen or Argon for transfers and purge.

[@BrewDudes]

Definitely doable and I've wondered that too but then you'd need a tank of a new gas and regulator set up. Most of us already have CO2 on hand or can capture some CO2 during fermentation in an empty keg. Cheers! -Mike

[@finspin4984]

Any thoughts on using SMB at packaging?

[@BrewDudes]

People do it. Seems to work well. I'd just watch the total sodium level in the water though. Cheers! -Mike

[@marcelogoncalves7532]

Do you guys heard something about SMB and PMS?

[@BrewDudes]

Yep. We've discussed it in comments. Sulfites for those that don't know, FYI. Cheers! -Mike

[@Jonobos]

Wine makers use K_meta to help prevent oxidation. What about using potassium metabisulfite at some point to help prevent oxidation? In theory wouldn't the Kmeta bond with the oxygen to create So2, which shouldn't have the same adverse reaction with the hops? Obviously this is only an option for kegging as it zaps the yeast, but it should in theory knock out all the free oxygen almost immediately? Something like purge keg, transfer kmeta solution to bottom, rack beer slowly onto kmeta solution, seal and keep chilled. I find it really odd that wine makers use this exact process every time they need to transfer, and for exactly the same reason (oxidation) and beer makers have not tried the same thing? Either I am missing something about the chemistry or this is a massive "durp" moment on the part of the beer industry... The ability to stop oxidation has existed for a long long time before pressure fermentation and pressure transfer.

[@BrewDudes]

I was under the impression that the amount of meta needed (regardless of K or Na) to halt oxidation was less than what was needed to stop yeast fermentation. So there still might be a chance at bottling these beers if you use the right amount that doesn't blunt your yeast. I like the "durp" moment concept. It seems strange to me that sometimes the wine and beer worlds don't really share the same knowledge pool about these basic concepts. I don't know why thought. Cheers! -Mike

[@TZerot0]

Frig, about to bottle condition my first hazy.

[@BrewDudes]

Don't fret! Do you're best and drink it quick. Once its carbonated, keep it cold. Cheers! -Mike

[@christianbureau6732]

First to say something..."something" lol Cheers everyone!

[@BrewDudes]

Thanks! - John

[@patrickbedroske9392]

Every 10 degrees C doubles a biological reaction process.

[@BrewDudes]

I knew I was didn't have it right as I said it, but thanks for the correction. Cheers! -Mike

[@mikegrice8232]

air is mostly nitrogen

[@BrewDudes]

But there is enough oxygen to oxidize your beer. - John

[@apenutz987]

Getting too technical. Just drink it so fast it doesn't have a chance to oxidize. Lol

[@diverbob33]

Ha! Now there's some great advice!

[@BrewDudes]

Always an option! Cheers! -Mike

[@TheAlchemistsBrewery]

I use vitamin C in the mash or in the boil. Never tasted the flavor. I use 1g for 5 gallons. It does not give me sour beer. It does not oxidize my beer. So this is wrong but should be tested side by side. One beer with vit C, one without. So my beer is better with vitamin C, hands down. EDTA is a calcium hardness remover. If you put that in beer you will get bad beer. It will remove calcium, magnesium and zinc. And that is just wrong. Yeast needs zinc. So you unfortunately are spreading some very bad misinformation.

[@BrewDudes]

It was just an idea not an edict for all to adopt. Something that one might experiment with. It is possible to use a chelator like EDTA/EGTA and not take all the divalent cations out of solution with proper titration. Thanks for your insights though and the dosages of citric acid for others to see. Cheers! -Mike

[@TheAlchemistsBrewery]

@@BrewDudes I've learned to use vitamin C from genus brewing, they have their own channel and spread a lot of good information. And from what I know, beer never contains sulphites, so vitamin C can never oxidate the beer, it can only prevent oxidation. And I've made a lot of beers with vitamin C in order to prove this.

[@ruanmuller3577]

Look at the Brew dude on the right's body language as soon as the Brew dude on the left mentions "Miracle cures"... Funny, he lost complete interest...

[@BrewDudes]

I watched this video again. I may have just been shifting my stance at the mention but the thought of adding EDTA to a beer isn't something I support 100%, but, ya know, science. - John (Brew Dude On The Right)

[@ruanmuller3577]

@@BrewDudes I actually thought it was because your beer was finished... :-)

[@TheBMurph43]

First

[@BrewDudes]

Congrats!