How to Respond: Crop Deaths

In Part 4 of this 6 part miniseries, you’ll learn:
🐭 How to respond to the “crop deaths” argument
❓ The shocking reason why people argue vegans kill more animals than omnivores
Welcome to Plant Powered Persuasion: Effective Communication for Vegans! In this six part miniseries, we’ll show you the road map to a vegan future and how you can help make it a reality!
📖Preorder the Plant Powered Persuasion BOOK: www.amazon.com/dp/B0CP8WNWB2
This miniseries is a collaboration between Vegan FTA and Veganography 💞
🐷Produced by Vegan FTA
🎥Written and directed by Emma Schwarz, Veganography
🎶Filmed, edited, animated, and original theme song by John Burton, Veganography
Connect with Veganography 👇
Website: veganography.org/
Instagram: / veganography.films
KZbin: / @veganography
#vegan #vegans #cropdeaths #communication #veganism #plantbased #argument #reasoning
😱 Further reading ~ report predicts COLLAPSE of animal agriculture by 2030: learn.rethinkx.com/hubfs/repo...
References
- Vegan foods kill 7.3 billion small animals per year: r.jordan.im/download/ethics/f...
- 99% of US farmed animals are factory farmed: www.sentienceinstitute.org/us...
- 90% of global farmed animals are factory farmed: www.sentienceinstitute.org/gl...
- Animal agriculture uses 80% of the world’s farmlands: ourworldindata.org/agricultur....
- Animal Agriculture kills approximately 3 trillion animals per year: considerveganism.com/counter/
- 34.4 billion crop deaths
- 70-80 billion land animals
- 2.7 trillion sea animals
- 128 billion TONNES (2,000lbs of individuals per ton) of farmed fish
👉 Free Help Going Vegan: bit.ly/VeganFTA22
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🐓 Website: veganfta.com
🐒 Twitter:/ teamveganfta
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00:00 - Introduction
00:53 - Psychology Behind the Argument
01:26 - The Purpose of Veganism
01:58 - Step 1
02:31 - Step 2
03:29 - Step 3
04:00 - Step 4

[@jarcau_vegan]

I would not say that our goal is to reduce death and suffering. I'd say that our goal is to respect the dignity of all sentient beings. The "reduction" is a consequence of the intention of respect. The respect is not a consequence of the intention of "reduction". Respecting animals means not to see and use them as commodities and properties. Veganism is the baseline for fundamental respect. By the way, the visuals and the format are awesome. Thank you for all the work put in it!!

[@veganography]

Glad you enjoyed the visuals! We are totally on the same page 💚 The ULTIMATE goal of veganism is to eliminate animal exploitation altogether, as we detail in episode 1 of this series. The assertion that our goal is to "reduce harm and maximize good" is in response to the criticism that veganism isn't "perfect." So we're saying, just because we can't be "perfect" in today's industrialized world doesn't mean we shouldn't try. And this reduction of harm/maximization of good still does stand up as an ultimate goal because a 100% reduction in death and suffering would equal the elimination of animal exploitation. It's just a matter of semantics, but ultimately we're saying the same thing 😊

[@jarcau_vegan]

@@veganography Thank you for your response. Yes, I think I undesrtand your point, and I don't know if this may be just a matter of semantics, but it is said that the devil lies in the little details. So, if may, I would like to clarify a few things: - I do agree, veganism is not about perfection. This would be a Nirvana fallacy, another straw-men to attack veganism. Veganism is not the solution for everything. Veganism is the rejection of nonhuman commodification, the solution to animal submission and exploitation. This is qualitatively and significantly different than saying that the goal is reducing or eliminating death and suffering. - I'm not really sure that a 100% reduction of death and suffering would equal the elimination of animal exploitation. There's suffering and death outside animal exploitation. Indeed, both death and suffering are part of this life, and reframing and conceptualizing them as «something to blindly fight against» may produce new situations. - For example, when we say that our goal is to reduce suffering and death (because suffering and death are wrong, or evil) we are letting the doors broad open to welfarism and reducetarianism. Reducetarianism is about driving the focus of a consumer to a reduction paradigm (of death, suffering, pollution, use of water...), meanwhile welfarism is about enforcing the producers to comply with their bare minimum legal duties towards their properties (animals). - The welfarist and the reducetarian propaganda are trying to appeal to «the goodness and good intentions» of the one listening to them. And they usually say: «you don't need to be vegan to reduce your impact on suffering and death on Earth». So, if a vegan message may be sharing arguments, motto and slogans with a pro-exploitative agenda, even cosmetically, should we just dismiss it? - Most of us vegans in this movement have bought and incorporated (to a certain extension and degree) the reducetarian/welfarist propaganda in our vegan sight and speech, probably without even noticing. - Respecting other sentients to the point of understanding their commodification and exploitation as unfair, even when doing so is profitable to us, is (at the very least) about veganism. In other words, veganism is about respecting other sentients to the point of understanding that it is unfair to exploit them, even when doing so is profitable, deathless and sufferingless. So, if death and suffering were to be left out of the equation, what could I point at? I could say that it is wrong to exploit animals because they are not (our) things, but a someone, a somebody who does not lack dignity, regardless of any utilitarian arguments. However, we know we are indoctrinated into seeing, perceiving and believing them as our things, and these words about them having dignity need more explanation for their landing. Exploiting (using them as things) them «without causing them death or suffering» is still wrong. Veganism is not about the amount of death and suffering, but the fundamental respect for the dignity of those who we were told and assumed had none. Thank you for the long reading. I didn't intent to be this long.

[@MrPlantMan6000]

Good points. I believe that is what Episode 3 of this series was getting at: Using animals in any way is not morally justifiable. It isn't a necessity, and is therefore a choice (basically that's what Earthling Ed does). Seems like everyone is on the same page!! So yes, probably a matter of semantics as someone said earlier. I imagine it is probably hard to express a very nuanced position in a single video (or even a long comment haha), but I imagine that's why they wrote a book this series is based on. Thank you for what you do for the animals. I can see you are very passionate and a great advocate 🙏 @@jarcau_vegan 🙏

[@jarcau_vegan]

@@MrPlantMan6000 Thank you for your response. I'm not sure that everybody is on the same page, or displaying the same page. Announcing that veganism is about reducing suffering and death is a false argument, at best, or a misleading one, at worst. Because there are lots of ways of reducing suffering and death that don't involve veganism. So, lots of those who rely on the objective of reducing suffering or death refer to veganism as «another option». Veganism is not an option, and is not about reducing suffering, but addressing, exposing, confronting and defeating the oldest and most unfair prejudice :animals (them) lack dignity because they are not human (like us). This prejudice leads us to animal exploitation, and animal exploitation leads them to death and suffering.

[@redbriarn6295]

Why are vegans not promoting vegan farming?

[@mandy5478]

Thank you! Amazing and well done! I especially liked how you said we aren’t perfect because we aren’t nor should we pretend to try. The problem with perfectionism is it creates unrealistic expectations which can lead to serious disappointment in the future. Are we trying to find better, kinder, more compassionate ways to live so all sentient beings suffer less? Absolutely. We can’t be faulted for that or for be caring enough to want to try to make a difference. Questions such as, why do so many people fight compassion and respect to all sentient beings and give those who are trying to make the world a better place such a hard time? That’s what I don’t understand.

[@veganography]

So glad you enjoyed it! Thanks so much for your support! 💚 I completely agree with you. I think people who fight compassion and respect for all sentient beings, as you say, have so many walls of denial, cognitive dissonance, and speciesism that they would rather cling to irrational arguments and fight compassion than reevaluate themselves. It's very frustrating, but it's our job as activists to learn how to break down those walls and get through to them. Thank you for your kind voice in this movement and everything you do for the animals!

[@TheFettuck]

You clearly don't even want to try to be perfect because you don't want to lose your current conveniences.

[@edusch]

Hey, another two arguments, that I find very persuasive: 1 - We are not breeding animals into existence to kill them. That's for me is a big ethical difference, they are not being exploited and treated as commodities. 2 - For sure a future goal should be to avoid all crop deaths, and all animal suffering in the long run. Some ethical philosophers even debate that a goal for lab grown meat 100 years from now should be to feed carnivorous wild animals to avoid them to prey on other innocent herbivorous animals, if population control becomes a problem there are solutions also without killing any of them. Anyway, the point here is that the only people who really care in solving crop deaths are vegans and a world without veganism will never solve crop deaths.

[@kennysimpson93]

Very very easily broken down way to respond. Using the higher estimates was wise, even if they come from studies that have flaws. It works so well in our favour that the industries worst critiques are still a grain of sand in comparison. I also like to talk about how intentional deaths are morally more abhorrent than unintentional ones, and that a vegan world also has the potential to reduce harm to zero (emphasis potential) whereas non vegan could never possibly achieve this. Of course I’m including lab grown or cultivated meat in a vegan hypothetical too. Love you guys, such a great video 💚

[@veganography]

Great points!! 💚 💯 Thanks so much for your support 🙏 and glad you enjoyed it☺

[@MrPlantMan6000]

So true... "intentional deaths are morally more abhorrent than unintentional ones" And yes, a nonvegan world has a 0% chance at reducing harm to zero. It all seems so simple, yet people make it complicated :) Great comment

[@user-gq4wg4os2j]

One of the main points that I bring up is that vegans do not run the agriculture industry. There are many ways we could be growing food that would result in a trivial amount of harm, we just don't practice those methods because it's not the goal of those running the industry.

[@veganography]

💯💯💯💯💯 GREAT POINTS. We're not in control of how crops are grown or what these profit-driven industries prioritize, the best we can do is eliminate the death that IS under our control - by being vegan. 🌱

[@TheFettuck]

@@veganography Why aren't you in control? Stop making excuses!

[@Dolfadactyl]

lolol looks like ur the master of the universe who can controol everything. i wish i was like u@@TheFettuck

[@Ric.A.Photography]

Absolutely brilliant as always. Thank you

[@veganography]

Thank you so much for your continuing support 🙏 It really means a lot to see your comments each time!!! 💚💚💚

[@ValeriaRossellini]

Excellent, thank you 💗💗💗

[@veganography]

So glad you found it valuable 🙏 thanks so much for your support! 💚

[@ladyaudrey9976]

Great stuff, thank you 💚💚

[@veganography]

So glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for your support!💚

[@watchwhatthehealth4539]

❤thanks 🎉go #Vegan for #justice and #Peace 🎉❤

[@CDAActivism]

1st

[@veganscuis]

Excellent, thank you. Really informative!

[@veganography]

Thank you so much! So glad you found it valuable! 💚

[@denisecounsell2863]

What do your pets eat?

[@Dolfadactyl]

my dog eat WildEarth

[@denisecounsell2863]

@@Dolfadactyl dogs and cats are not vegan. You made the choice for them.

[@Dolfadactyl]

@@denisecounsell2863 cats are obligate carnivores, yes but there is food tech coming out that can make the nutrients they need to survive. dogs can eat plants. do ur research on all this and u will discover interesting news.

[@Dolfadactyl]

@@denisecounsell2863 and u made the choice for all the pigs chickens and cows to have their life taken away for momentary pleasure. if u truly advocate for choice, then give others a choice hypocrite

[@viviendaquino8364]

Excellent presentation. Will save. 😊

[@veganography]

So glad you enjoyed it and found it valuable 💚 Thank you for showing your support! 🙏

[@paaone]

Love this series! Really informative

[@veganography]

So glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for your support 💚

[@LouisGedo]

Excellent video 👍

[@veganography]

Thank you so much! So glad you enjoyed it 🙏

[@RainbowCuga]

Amazing video

[@veganography]

Thank you so much! So glad you enjoyed it ☺

[@LouisGedo]

Debug Your Brain has an excellent series of videos on this topic 👍

[@capucinebellucci3476]

💖💖💖

[@veganography]

🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏💚💚💚

[@rodrigonogueira5561]

I like this series. I'm vegan and I do regular animals' rights' activism posts. That being said, I disagree with "our goal is not perfection". I know people have different notions or perspectives of veganism, don't get me wrong. But I think we should strive for perfection. It's like "I hit my wife but at least I don't hit my kids, my goal isn't to be perfect"... We should rather position ourselves as "Yes, veganism isn't perfect but is constantly striving for finding that perfection, however it presents itself in the future". I mean, I think this is very solid grounds for talking about veganism. Otherwise it leaves room for "gotcha hypocrite vegan" comments and that should be minimized to 0 (as well as animal suffering). Normally, I critique but offer solutions. On this matter, I'm short on solutions and would like to hear more from you. I know that some people with backyard gardens have plants that keep insects away, whether due to their scent, colour, chemicals released. Is it scalable? Maybe not. But people are smart enough to make smartphones, I'm sure we're smart enough to keep insects and small animals away from our crops in a non-harmful way. As always, keep up the fantastic job and much love from a fellow vegan. 🌱❤️

[@veganography]

Thank you for your really thoughtful comment 🙏 I agree with everything you say! The "perfection isn't our goal" phrase is precisely intended to preempt the "gotcha hypocrite vegan" comments, as you mentioned. Because in the CURRENT industrialized world, which includes industrial food production, cars, housing, iphones, etc. it's impossible to completely avoid death. Not every vegan has the resources to purchase a totally vegan car. Not every vegan has the resources to grow their own food 100% organically with no pesticides. Everyone has to live in a house/apartment/etc for which land was cleared and wild animals probably died. Vegans can't be perfect.The best thing anyone can do is eliminate the death that is under our control by going vegan. And all of this is within the context of our CURRENT industrialized world. I agree with you that the ULTIMATE goal is completely eliminating animal exploitation in a future society, which we detail in episode 1. In the description of the video, there's a link titled "further reading: report predicts COLLAPSE of animal agriculture by 2030" that details exactly how this vegan reality (at least in the food system) is already starting to form. The answer is a combination of precision fermentation and what they call "food catalogues" that can be downloaded anywhere in the world and use precision fermentation to create food. They predict that food production will eventually become vegan (in that no animals are used or harmed in any way), localized (eliminating the transportation of food), and make animal agriculture completely obsolete. This technology has serious implications for all other industries that use animals as well, such as textiles. This video is designed as a response to the specific and narrow instance wherein a non vegan claims that "vegans kill more animals than meat eaters." It's intended as a response within the context of our current industrialized world, to shut down this argument from non vegans. It's not intended as a prescription for an ideal future. Thanks so much for your thoughtful and reasonable response. We really appreciate your support and everything that you do for the animals!!! 💚

[@TheFettuck]

Striving for perfection isn't convenient. This is why they used "perfection isn't our goal" argument. Most people still only want to do something when it is convenient, no matter if they are vegan or not.

[@MrPlantMan6000]

There's a huge difference between killing intentionally killing 3 Trillion+ animals and unintentionally killing 7.3 billion animals. Big difference. Check out that graph from the video again. Yeah, it would be amazing to get both numbers down to zero and be perfect. Is it possible with current technology? Unfortunately not. But one day it will be feasible. So perfection just isn't realistic in the current day. That's called reality. @@TheFettuck

[@redbriarn6295]

The misinformation/ misleading reporting in this video, relies heavily that livestock feed is “specifically grown crops” … grass and agricultural/ processed food waste/ byproducts are the main sources of food for livestock

[@veganography]

That is demonstrably false. All of our sources are included in the description. Can you please provide a source for your claims?

[@redbriarn6295]

@@veganography Anne Mottet FAO

[@redbriarn6295]

@@veganography if you consider grass and byproducts/ waste products as “crops”. green water, marginal land and regenerative farming as losses. And the ocean ( 75% of the world’s surface) as a nature preserve… humans will starve to death in a vegan world

[@redbriarn6295]

@@veganography if you consider grass and byproducts/ waste products as “crops”. green water, marginal land and regenerative farming as losses. And the ocean ( 75% of the world’s surface) as a nature preserve… humans will starve to death in a vegan world

[@redbriarn6295]

@@veganography do you deny that most livestock feed is grass ? Do you deny that livestock feeds are mostly made from byproducts/ waste products from human food products?

[@redbriarn6295]

Don’t ignore poisoning animals

[@veganography]

We're not ignoring poisoning animals. That's what this whole video is about 😊 We 100% agree that organic is always preferable and reduces death even more!

[@redbriarn6295]

@@veganography arsenic is organic

[@veganography]

@@redbriarn6295 Organic farming means that no pesticides are allowed. Straight from the USDA: "Substances like strychnine and arsenic are examples of natural toxic substances that are prohibited in organic production."

[@redbriarn6295]

@@veganography (e) As insecticides (including acaricides or mite control). (1) Ammonium carbonate-for use as bait in insect traps only, no direct contact with crop or soil. (2) Aqueous potassium silicate (CAS #-1312-76-1)-the silica, used in the manufacture of potassium silicate, must be sourced from naturally occurring sand. (3) Boric acid-structural pest control, no direct contact with organic food or crops. (4) Copper sulfate-for use as tadpole shrimp control in aquatic rice production, is limited to one application per field during any 24-month period. Application rates are limited to levels which do not increase baseline soil test values for copper over a timeframe agreed upon by the producer and accredited certifying agent. (5) Elemental sulfur. (6) Lime sulfur-including calcium polysulfide. (7) Oils, horticultural-narrow range oils as dormant, suffocating, and summer oils. (8) Soaps, insecticidal. (9) Sticky traps/barriers. (10) Sucrose octanoate esters (CAS #s-42922-74-7; 58064-47-4)-in accordance with approved labeling. (f) As insect management. Pheromones. (g) As rodenticides. Vitamin D3. (h) As slug or snail bait. (1) Ferric phosphate (CAS # 10045-86-0). (2) Elemental sulfur.

[@veganography]

@@redbriarn6295 I am aware. We agree that pesticides are bad. We're on the same page. We are NOT arguing in favor of pesticides! Organic farming, which doesn't use pesticides, is ideal.