How to Rope Up for Glacier Travel

[@seanobrien352]

Solid pose at the end.

[@adventureswithdipsy]

Excellent video - really clear 👍😊 I especially appreciated the clarity on tying off coils and then clipping the ‘extra’ (glacial travel) knot to leave the coils load- free; that’s such a simple and yet crucial concept, and yet I haven’t seen it before, as it’s usually the end of the overhand knot tidying the coils that gets clipped... Going to make that technique our go-to from now on! 🎿

[@josef_kral]

Good point! This could be confusing to a newcomer. I would say that Kiwi coils with overhand knot clipped to a belay loop can be use only where you do not expect to fall in crevasse/hole as in that case you won't be able to escape your rope system. On the other hand it would be time consuming (and probably useless??) to tie another figure-8 on a bight where there you need to adjust the rope length very often (alpine climbs/scrambles/general short roping scenarios).

[@p.richter9592]

Great and detailed video. Loved the stance at the end 😁👍🏻👍🏻🇳🇴

[@BrettGilmour]

Excellent series

[@jimpasterczyk7589]

Butterfly knots are far better than figure 8s on a bight for clipping middle people into the rope; they can take loads from either end without rolling. Compare it with a figure eight tied with parallel ropes with the ends at the same place; that kind of knot has been known to come undone when doing double rope rappels unlike when using the Flemish bend or alpine butterfly bend. See the latest Accidents in North American Climbing for that type of accident.

[@tonyjewell478]

I believe figure eights are fine for middle people as a horizontal pull (or a load from opposite directions) is more theoretical than actual in a crevasse fall. Between slack in the rope, rope stretch, and arresters getting pulled and dragged, the force on the knot will almost certainly come from above and not deform or compromise the figure eight. (And even if did, there's no way the middle person would come out of the knot!) Furthermore, from a teaching/instructional point of view, I prefer not to teach another knot to get people ready for glacier travel.

[@Govanification]

@@tonyjewell478 So teach the overhand on a bight if you don't want to teach the alpine butterfly. It is superior to the figure eight if both strands are loaded in terms of resistance to rolling, uses less rope, and is plenty safe.

[@homayoonasgharzadeh5572]

thanks so much coach

[@johngo6283]

Excellent video!

[@brianharder7714]

The only thing I didn't catch is the length of the rope you started with. With the rising popularity of Petzl's Rad Line, 30m sections are becoming common. I've struggled with coming up with a tidy way to divide up the rope for 2 on a 30m or 3 on 2x30m.

[@rajanlliw]

for 3 people on 2x30m have the middle person clip in to the ends of both ropes. for 2 people on 2x30m you can tie a double fisherman's or similar in the middle to connect the two ropes and do your normal spacing. you won't be hauling on that rope for a rescue, anyway, you'd use the extra on either end that you'd shove in your pack or kiwi coil.

[@lientai]

What's the best way to calculate spacing if I'm adding braking knots?

[@Codywhite10]

Can anyone tell me if only 2 people roped up for glacier travel is a sketchy thing to do? Like if my partner is a big guy (30 pounds heavier than me) and fell Into a crevasse, it would seem like the odds of him dragging me into the crevasse as well would be higher than you’d want.

[@Govanification]

With a large weight difference, yes it can be quite challenging for you to hold a crevasse fall by yourself. Typically you are going to want brake knots in the rope (either big for soft snow or small for firm snow, look for other videos), which also means you'll need to drop a fresh strand of rope in to haul them out (make sure you understand the rope length requirements for whatever system you plan to use). Having a long spacing between you two (~15m ish) allows for more reaction time to arrest. Also put the heaviest person uphill at all times so that gravity is helping pull the lighter person (you) downhill and hold them if they fall in a hole.

[@Innatefulness]

What’s a good rule of thumb for the total length on the rope / how much extra is at each end?

[@Govanification]

50m or 60m is ideal for teams of 2-4, and the amount of rope on the end depends on the hauling system you plan to use. You may hear people talking about teams of 2 on a 30m rope, but you should then ask those people what their rescue plan is. If you plan to do a drop-loop 2:1 system ("C pulley") then you'll need at least 2x the distance from the snow anchor to the fallen climber in spare rope, which can be from the spacing between climbers combined with the coiled rope on the ends. But imagine a middle climber on a team of 3 falls in, then one person will need to enact a solo rescue from one end of the rope, so they need to have all the tools and rope available to do so (basically the same as a 2-person team). Some spacing & rope examples starting with a 2:1 drop-loop haul system: - 2 people on 60m rope: 11m spacing between people, 24.5m coiled on both ends (11x1 + 24.5x2 = 60 and 24.5 > 11x2) - 3 people on 60m rope: 9m spacing between people, 21m coiled on both ends (9x2 + 21x2 = 60 and 21 > 9x2) - 4 people on 60m rope: 8m spacing between people, 18m coiled on both ends (8x3 + 18x2 = 60 and 18 > 8x2) If you learn some different rescue haul systems that don't start with a drop-loop 2:1 (like a direct haul "Z pulley"), then you can get away with using a shorter rope / less rescue coil. But for smaller teams (def 2 and maybe 3 people), it's common to use brake knots so you all don't get pulled into a hole, then you definitely need to drop a fresh rope down to the fallen climber so a direct haul is probably out of the question.

[@UnclePen2090]

You can hear Mark laughing in the background!

[@GoGoGreenGiant]

What is the recommended rope for glacier travel? Can I use my regular Rock climbing rope?

[@MattCookOregon]

Hopefully someone else chimes but but climbing rope is the usual. I have used 9.7mm.

[@alexanderwhitney464]

If you are still wondering, ideally you want a rope with a dry treatment. It will keep the rope from getting wet which will help keep it from freezing and becoming difficult to work with. You can use a standard single rope though if you are going to be solely on glaciers than some people advocate the use of a lighter half rope. Technically they aren't rated for falls by themselves, but with the low factor falls that you will probably experience on a glacier it should handle it just fine.

[@rajanlliw]

use a skinny half rope (~7.5-8.5mm) with a good dry treatment. beefy single ropes for cragging are way overkill. specialized ropes like the Petzl Rad Line (6mm) also exist for this purpose but have extra considerations for use

[@korosulkalamyr6081]

I'm curious about how this would work with multiple partners. Let's say you have a rope team of four on the glacier and transition to lower angle terrain with loose rocks. What's the best way to shorten the rope between each climber and not simply between the leader and second position? Would have folks untie (when it's safe), take in coils, and then retie their knots at shorter intervals or is there a better way to do it?

[@Govanification]

If it's a short rock section, just take in butterfly hand coils so you aren't dragging it. For a longer section you could add to your chest coils by sliding a prusik hitch down the rope before untying so that you are are still tight to your partners while adding/removing coils.

[@mrjakobt]

What gloves is he wearing? Are they still available?

[@colethemakdonbitty]

Glasses?

[@MattCookOregon]

I like his coat

[@paddyoneill3243]

Hi mate few questions. How do you escape your rope system if you tie in direct to your harness and not onto a crab also your rescue rope how do you get to it to use in a situation if it is tied off to you?? I have only ever known to tie onto a crab then have half my coils tied off then another half which comes to a prussik off my belay loop, which I can flip off easy take rope off or bring rope in or make a 3 to 1 pulley Regards paddy

[@josef_kral]

He is talking about it at 3:20. That additional last figure-8 on a bight clipped to a biner transfers all the load in case you fall into crevasse. Then you would just untie over hand knot (and untie figure-8 at the end from your harness loops) to obtain those rope coils for rescue technique and yet you would be hanging in the air/holding your partner on that last figure-8 on a bight clipped to biner he has done... if it make sense.

[@XPrincess30]

wtf is a "cascade sized" glacier, and what are the rules for the other kinds?

[@Govanification]

Glaciers in the PNW (cascades mostly) have medium to large sized crevasses, so you need more spacing between people so there's less chance multiple people fall into the same hole. Even his spacing seems a bit small for the cascades, tbh if we assume his arm span is ~1.5m then 7 arms is only 10.5m for a team of 3. That's more like what I do for a team of 4, and for a team of 3 do more like 12m in Washington. For smaller glaciers with smaller crevasses you can get away with closer (less) spacing between climbers, and for Alaska or other places with massive crevasses you likely want to go with even larger spacing.

[@pearmax]

Hi, what's the name of his gloves?

[@cwadub]

In the first half they are called "Man Gloves" and the second "Air Brake Gloves"

[@tenz2339]

How many spacing is needed if there are 15 members?

[@KingOfStoke]

At that point you should be using 5 teams of 3 most likely

[@Thematic2177]

3 teams of 5

[@osogeo]

@@Thematic2177 6 teams of 2.5

[@beyondthepale2023]

Who would go climbing with 15 people?

[@user-vc5rp7nf8f]

lol the end

[@RC1125]

Pants and jacket?

[@exploreryen]

I think the jacket is Outdoor research Ferrosi hoody softshell jacket.