How to Run A Horror RPG

[@lamvutran9345]

We did a Halloween special last month. Were asked by my players to surprised them. We decided to play a horror theme RPG game, extreme low lv (like, none of the players actually have combat abilities). The party was on a mission to research mysterious murders that were happening across several towns. Whenever they come to a new place, despite it's there first time there, people would start greeting them out of the blue, as if they've known the party for decades. At the end of each day, a figure of administrative from said town (the mayor, village chief, sheriff, etc) would come to the party and ask the same question: "Hey. Where's the clown? Wasn't he with you yesterday?" They never been in the same location for more than a day, and never stayed overnight. Panic took over. Insight and perception checks were thrown left and right. The party try to explain how weird the situation was to the townsfolks but nothing seem to work. No gore. No jump scare. But it get under their nerves.

[@DesksAndDorks]

Best way to do it!!!

[@kayla_eevee]

10:15 I paused for a minute here and when I came back, that first shot from Smile hit like a jump scare. Out-of-place smiling (basically the entire premise of Smile) is literally my biggest fear.

[@DesksAndDorks]

Oh man, I am really sorry. It was supposed to be effective but definitely didn't mean to cause discomfort.

[@kayla_eevee]

@@DesksAndDorks Oh, that wasn't meant to be a criticism! I thought it was hilarious. The timing was too perfect. I've actually seen Smile and I'll get around to the sequel eventually.

[@DesksAndDorks]

I've heard the sequel was pretty good actually which is i.pressive given it's kind of a low budget franchise.

[@F4ngel]

One thing that my mate did when he dmed was declare "every time he rolls a dice it means something" at the start of the game and not elaborate further. He'd then randomly roll a die when we're discussing or doing mundane things in character and stare at his dm screen like he's working out which attack to use first. Then there's, if someone is randomly rolling their dice in boredom and they roll a nat 20, he'd subtlety tell them that while their character is bored they notice this thing that no-one else does.

[@pietd4781]

Sniping this concept. Thanks

[@DesksAndDorks]

That is a great system ngl.

[@saintjst7]

I have three gaming groups, two of which are paid sessions. During session zero I have a solid discussion with my players about the content of the game. This has served me well in the past and even kept me from picking up additional business (Which I am 100% okay with). I go to great lengths to curate a group of players that understand what my playstyle is and what kind of content they will experience at my table. That being said, I can see how safety tools would be more prevalent in situations where you are dealing with complete strangers. Just stumbled onto your content, I'm really enjoying it.

[@DesksAndDorks]

Glad you're liking it! It's been fun to make these videos!

[@zacharygoguen5126]

I think my personal favorite as a DM "mundane becoming scary" was when my party went to investigate a body in a room. Upon touching the cadavre, it melts away into black tar, seeping into the flagstone floor. They are a bit spooked, but move on.. and then they hear a meaty whack from behind. The body? Back, the cape on it still settling from the fall it apparently just had. When the paladin cast "Detect Good or Evil", i had a bit of fun with it, not using it as written, instead just looking up and smiling at him. "There is no good left here." Memorable session

[@yoursoraka5019]

5:32 the answer is BDSM, the red light method is a sex thing.

[@DesksAndDorks]

Huh. You learn something new every day.

[@ignaciozegers5267]

Awesome visuals!! Love the old timey movie footage. I'll poke you about fonts / text styling next lol Appreciate the safety bit at the beginning; I thought veiling was a quick description and then you skip the scene, so to speak, but a more general definition of adding conditions makes sense to me I like that you broke it down into general concepts to apply, I'll definitely have to play this back for inspiration if I ever intend to run a spooky story

[@DesksAndDorks]

Glad it is an improvement! I actually think custom fonts and text effects should be easy to implement! Also I hope you get to run a game soon I love horror rpgs.

[@FinnA07]

Hell yeah, time to get all my friends together and... oh

[@DesksAndDorks]

You can make new frands! I believe in you

[@salty-nick]

Shoutout to YOU for making this video in 2 days! Made some notes :)

[@DesksAndDorks]

I've been enjoying the live commentary for sure.

[@n0etic_f0x]

A bit of an odd question, I refuse to use safety tools as a DM or player, I like that there exist people who want them can get another GM. Granted I do have an X card though technically speaking, I forget I have it because it's never been used. I have a rule where anyone can place their phone next to a roll when one is made to caution or stop something. People with lines, I refuse on both sides of the table, I just will not play with you, veils tend to be fine I often follow them with no effort. I just wonder your thoughts on that.

[@sameagain4968]

Why though?

[@DesksAndDorks]

Ultimately your decision to play with anyone is up to you. I can understand not including someone with a certain line because you want to include something specific for a game. (For example we had a horror game focused on aging and didn't invite a friend who had a close relative in hospice specifically because of that. However I think if you are saying I'll never play with someone with a line you are probably limiting yourself and maybe missing out on some cool folks. Lastly your x card and phone rule specifically are safety tools so I'd say you're already playing with some amount of safety tools already (I may actually steal the phone rule it's a really nice physical representation that makes it hard for folks to miss). Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk!

[@n0etic_f0x]

@@sameagain4968 I don’t like them, I hear about safety gear and I just don’t understand why I as a player would want them. I have some stop light cards that remain unopened only to gather dust. It’s not simply that I am doubt I will use them I will just put it so far in my subconscious they will not even cross my mind.

[@sameagain4968]

@@n0etic_f0x Honestly I’m the same about safety tools, I mostly forget to use them even if I’m the dm introducing them, but I’m curious about not wanting to join a table at all that uses safety tools. Is it about not vibing with the people that support safety tools? Are you just opposed to the concept of safety tools?

[@n0etic_f0x]

@@DesksAndDorks Possibly, but I also know a lot of people I know that I am avoiding and I really don’t want to intact with them. I know that I get people who are way more rude than you typically encounter and I honestly prefer it that way, I am just not willing to stop my game. I will, but just don’t want to play with people who have the idea stopping the game already.

[@jago2503]

I very much am a supporter of safety tools, but I have to admit, having been using them for years I rolled my eyes a bit and went "surely everyone knows this by now." Then I looked at the comments section, and... apparently not :D so keep up the good work I guess!

[@DesksAndDorks]

Yeah I think it's taken some time for everyone to go from the professional gm sphere to the actual table. Also I just figured worst case people who knew it would use the time stamps to skip! But thanks glad you liked it!

[@jago2503]

@DesksAndDorks yeah I should also have said - fantastic video overall. The pie section? Genuinely disturbing!

[@DesksAndDorks]

Glad you liked it! That image of runny pie popped up in another horror short film, and I was like...wait that would be perfect for an rpg.

[@jago2503]

Ooh what's the film in question?

[@DesksAndDorks]

I can't recall the exact name but the story follows an elementary school teacher who is pregnant with the child of a hate group leader. She brings the world's FOULEST looking pie to a get together that reveals the specific group. (Not sure if I can say exactly which group without the algorithm gods getting angry but the group are fans of a certain Austrian painter who was very active in the 1940s if that makes sense.)

[@chrisbates8906]

Pie is generally horrific

[@DesksAndDorks]

And also somehow....delicious.

[@chrisbates8906]

@@DesksAndDorks especially apple

[@milewesler9592]

If you wanna get to the point skip to 8:46

[@DesksAndDorks]

Time stamps are already there for folks to use but I do think you're missing out by not using safety tools.

[@milewesler9592]

@@DesksAndDorks To each there own boss, Good video otherwise

[@Phinix-playz]

Hi

[@adwadswadsda8458]

SHUT UP AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[@DesksAndDorks]

Lol hello all

[@JinbaHGS]

Well, I *was* going to eat pie later tonight...

[@DesksAndDorks]

You're welcome/I'm sorry

[@Johnsmith-hx6lq]

As I’ve seen in these comments, common sense may not be as common as one might hope 😅 It’s good to see someone bringing up the importance of using the tools we have to create a social contract that allows everyone to have fun at the table.

[@DesksAndDorks]

Yeah it's been.....interesting. but I'm glad you're liking the content!

[@TwinSteel]

🥳🫂👍🏿 I know that Nick ❤

[@salty-nick]

bro.

[@TwinSteel]

@@salty-nick 👋🏿

[@jack02krauser]

Skipped the safety stuff, Stood forthe advice, but started dobuting when you mentioned SMILE, that movie sucked balls.

[@DesksAndDorks]

Different strokes I suppose. I was really impressed with the amount of scares they got off a simple concept.

[@skybunny2226]

I would bet real money that most of the people (i assume mostly men) that are complaining about not wanting to use safety tools in horror or not even discuss it at their table cause “it ruins the tension and scares” or “it’s supposed to make you uncomfortable” are the same people that have sexually harassed players at their table. My ex was continually sexually harassed by his DM a guy who he thought was his friend, was constantly forcing him into hyper sexual scenarios w/o warning or his consent. As a woman I’d be deeply triggered and uncomfortable if the DM put any level of sexual violence or harassment in a campaign, even thought it’s a deep source of discomfort and horror for me and I’d literally cut contact w anyone who forced me into a situation like that w/o warning or safeguards cause it literally triggers a trauma response. So yes safeguards are necessary and if you disagree w that you aren’t a safe person to be around period.!

[@skybunny2226]

Someone replied but i can’t find it to directly reply to w something to the tune of “safety tools won’t stop a creep from being a creep, I’m not a creep but i still don’t use them” and i wholeheartedly agree that creepers are gonna be creepy regardless of what safety tools you’ve established with your table, HOWEVER! You can still unintentionally trigger traumas in your PLAYERS that may not be conducive to good role play! Like disregard the fact that you’re probably a bad friend for not even caring about potentially harming your friends mental states at the table. Having people at your table literally dissociating because they’re so uncomfortable they’ve retreated inside themselves & you haven’t established any checks and balances to make sure they’re ok, is not conducive to good or fun play at the table even in horror. I go almost fully nonverbal when I’m having flashbacks or get extremely uncomfortable, I would be unable to act as my character and be stuck inside MYSELF. This is a COLLABORATIVE storytelling horror game that is supposed to be fun AND scary for everyone, if you’re solely focused on building a horrific, uncomfortable experience it’s not going to be a fun time for everyone involved. Doesn’t matter what you’re identity is, once again if you are not using safety tools you aren’t a safe person to be around/play with. I’d honestly be super interested in playing a game that plays with the player’s specific phobias and genuine fears, but if you are going to facilitate a game like that, you NEED to be safe & kind to your players & you NEED to establish boundaries. If you aren’t a good enough writer that you can’t be conscientious of your friends traumas while still generating spooks for them, you need to get better at writing if you’re gonna be a DM! Go write a book or movie if all you care about is being scary and off-putting without wanting to care about the people at your table. I’m a firm believer that if you’re a good enough writer you can absolutely make almost anything horrifying and scary & if you’re relying on re-traumatizing your players to achieve scares you are a bad friend and a bad writer & you need to do better! Its giving lack of empathy & creativity hun!!

[@DesksAndDorks]

@skybunny2226 someone did reply but I'm just scouring the comments. There's more then a few folks saying some not so great stuff under the guise of "just debating"

[@skybunny2226]

@@DesksAndDorks cringe behaviour fr! Can’t believe some people think it’s a flex to create toxic spaces where they think it’s okay to force people into confronting their trauma at a game night w friends w/o warning! I’m all for a good cathartic trauma dump & bonding night w friends but never when I’m also actively setting myself up to be scared and uneasy all evening. It’s almost like people are just mad that they’re being called out for their lack of care & empathy towards their friends & their poor writing ability. And hey to be fair it seems like a lot of people in these comments would have a lot of fun playing fucked up “no safety tool” games together. I’m sure they’d all have the best time throwing insanely horrifying shit at each other without tact or care! & like no tea no shade but the projection of “I dealt w my trauma so everyone should have to deal w theirs the same way I did” is lowkey hilarious as someone who has also processed a lot of their trauma & has had to face it in real life & literally just has empathy for my friends who have different traumas than I do. I just want to actually enjoy a scary game together w my friends, like ok be mad lol, you’ll probably have less fun than we will because we love & respect & know each other. We’re all avid horror movie fans & work/study in film & tv, if there’s one thing we can do it’s paint a horrifying scary picture while still being conscientious of our friends. Genuinely sad these people don’t seem to have the same quality of relationships w their loved ones :/

[@elfhunter6]

Great way to delegitimize any and every disagreement someone might have. "Oh, you disagree? Sexual Predator." Seriously, tf is wrong with you?

[@k9ine999]

Saftey tools were invented for the BDSM community and then were brought into ttrpgs. Are you playing a kinky sex game with D&D?

[@DesksAndDorks]

X card was invented in 2013 for convention rpgs, and lines and veils are legit just a codified version of the basic convo you should be having with your players anyway. Regardless of their origins, safety tools are an important part of how people run rpgs now.

[@k9ine999]

@@DesksAndDorks Doesn't it bother you that people have become this fragile? I literally can't think of anything more harmless than a TTRPG. Not being snide. I really don't get it.

[@DesksAndDorks]

I'll be honest I used to feel that way. I had a kind of a "people should get over it mentality." The only reason I ran them at the time was because I was required to. Then, I had a safety tool catch something I would have missed. One of my players had recently lost a family member in a pretty rough way and because they were the chill quiet type (and because they were still processing their grief) they didn't share that until it came up in lines and veils. Again, this was a player I liked and who was really vocal and mature about things. It's just that something happened that they couldn't really process well, and the tools did their job. I will say of the 100s of games I run a year. I probably have to use a safety tool maybe once or twice. I treat them like seatbelts. I have them on, just in case. Anyway, thanks for coming to the ted talk. I know I typed a lot, but you seemed sincere, and I wanted to give a sincere response.

[@k9ine999]

@@DesksAndDorks Thanks for the response. To be honest I still am worried more about the attitude behind the safety tools. I feel like it is moving the general direction of society in a bad direction overall, though I'm glad it worked out for you.

[@DesksAndDorks]

Again, I've never had it derail it to the point that it's killed a game or made me want to quit. I think people are just finding new ways to talk about what they need/want from their games. Glad you read the whole response though I felt like I was writing a whole book.

[@k9ine999]

How can you do harm to someone by playing a make beleive game with dice?

[@DesksAndDorks]

The same way you can do harm to someone by insulting them or by digging up past trauma. It is a make-believe game with dice, so if it's only a make-believe dice game, why not just be kinder about it?

[@k9ine999]

Is coddling people kindness? That seems like pointing them down a hard path.

[@pietd4781]

Maybe someone just doesn't want a certain topic when they sit down to play dnd. I don't wanna learn about what happened on medieval Little St. James because I know it'll make me roll my eyes or just grow disgusted

[@squiddles1678]

I feel like the safety tools defeat the purpose of a horror rpg. The whole point of horror is to unsettle and disturb the audience while telling a good story.

[@luke.s8419]

Yes, but there is a strong diffrence between unsettling/scaring your players, and traumatizing them, or possibly bringing up old trauma. Safety tools are especially important in horror as it helps place a boundary where you can get as unsettling as you can, without risking actual harm to anyone at the table. I like to think of it like a haunted house. The goal is to scare the people, but if there were no rules in place to keep the guy with the chainsaw from touching you, it doesn't matter if the chainsaw is fake, there's now a real chance that someone will get hurt. And even though people want to get scared. They don't want to get hurt.

[@elfhunter6]

​@@luke.s8419Your own example defeats itself. You don't sign a contract and list off your traumas before going into a haunted house. You know what to expect already. Bc it's a haunted house. Ffs.

[@Archonus]

Eeehhh...I can appreciate the consideration for people that are squeamish about certain topics, but there is nothing more immersion breaking than someone at the table complaining about what's happening in the campaign. I think it's much better to have a sort of "trigger warning" (ugh...) before the campaign ever starts so we don't have to interrupt the adventure with someone freaking out about what's happening. Dude, I'm trying to ADVENTURE. Adventures are scary, may even be horrifying. If you aren't down for some horrifying adventures you don't have to play with me. There's tons of other tables and online groups to go to. That whole "safety tools" stuff is incredibly immersion breaking. I WANT to feel scared. I WANT to feel uncomfortable about some things happening, especially in a HORROR adventure. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT! I get your perspective, but I completely disagree with it. It's a good thing there's a table for everyone.

[@ignaciozegers5267]

Generally I've seen it done as checking-in on people before long campaigns about stuff they don't enjoy seeing, that way it's not a pause, but rather the GM took that particular beat in different direction to begin with But in a more general sense, just be considerate, man. If someone's pet just died and they don't want to RP about a fictional pet dying (because it takes them out of the action, right), it's super free to avoid that for them

[@squiddles1678]

@@ignaciozegers5267at that point, there isn’t a real point in playing in a horror setting.

[@DesksAndDorks]

Hard disagree. Games a game. Life is life. Taking what's going on with your players into consideration will always take precedence over a game and truly doesn't take that much away imo.

[@ignaciozegers5267]

@@squiddles1678 so if hypothetically you were going to play a horror campaign and somebody said "hey I'm down with any spooky stuff except spooky pregnant women since my wife had a miscarriage recently and I'd prefer not to be reminded", do you think avoiding that specific subject would detract from the campaign enough you'd ask the guy not to play?

[@squiddles1678]

@@ignaciozegers5267 let’s say there is a session where there is a ghost of a miscarriage baby and before that someone says what you said to me (for what ever reason). I would remind them that it is a horror setting and almost (and keep in mind, I said almost, I am not a psychopath) everything is on the table. Even if I didn’t include the ghost baby, I would remind them that almost everything is still on the table. I would remind them the point of the type of horror I am taking part in (paranormal, gore, eldritch, etc)

[@drivinganddragons1818]

You lose all credibility when you bring in safety tools. The ONLY place they have any validity is in convention games and/or paid games. Tell your players what to expect (in general). If they don't like it, they can play elsewhere.

[@DesksAndDorks]

I could not disagree more. People change. Things happen. I'd rather have them and not need them. Doing so shows a base level of respect for players that is essential. Edit: I'd also like to add that in the professional GM space I don't know a single GM or person who actually gets paid for rpgs that isn't using safety tools. If anything not using them loses you credibility.

[@josiahws5]

You sound ignorant. What if the dungeon master wants the players to have fun without getting hurt or disturbed, but still want a scary game? Dungeon masters need to cater to the players at least somewhat or they aren't really a dungeon master.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

​@@josiahws5you highlight everything wrong in ttrpg culture with those few words "the DM needs to cater to the players" No, players need to behave like adults and understand that the GM is also a player and the game is as much for him as them. Safety tools infringe on the GM's agency by giving players active ways to arbitrarily disrupt the GM's agency over the world. Are you uncomfortable? Excuse yourself, step away from the table, and have a discussion with the GM privately later if it's that big a deal.

[@josiahws5]

@@drivinganddragons1818 I said somewhat. If the dungeon master doesn't want the players to have fun they can play alone. I never said the dungeon master has to cater to every whim of the player. Have you ever professionally dm'd? You lose all credibility when you have no safety tools. Safety tools work in both ways as the players could do something that the dm wouldn't want in the game as well.

[@drivinganddragons1818]

​@@DesksAndDorksa professional GM is an exclusion I included. Specifically because once you are paid to GM you are no longer a player but a service provider. Same with convention games, you are a defacto contractor at that point and are obligated to conform to the requirements of your employer. Otherwise, it's called adult behavior. If you are uncomfortable, excuse yourself. Don't disrupt the game with X cards, stoplights, and other disruptions. As a GM, you outline what's in the game in advance. That's your agency as a player. "hey, this game allows this and doesn't allow this and will potentially include these kinds of things." Your only safety tools should be 1) excuse yourself if it gets a little hot for you and 2) don't join that table because your sensitivities infringe on everyone else's game that they agreed to and are enjoying. The player should never be given a free pass to derail the game simply because something is uncomfortable for them.