How to Save the Battlestar Pegasus - Battle Plan

[@Spacedock]

I should say that while I don't have any problem with Lee's decision from a narrative standpoint, I would have liked to see him asked to resign from the military or at least more heavily demoted. They ended up giving him a civilian story arc later anyway so it wouldn't have made much difference to do it earlier.

[@isegrim1978]

It was one of those moments were you begin to think about the bad decisions after he first excitement wears of...

[@Arashmickey]

It would have been pretty interesting if the show spent some more time on that hindsight. The show could have narrowed their options progressively up until they had to sacrifice a battlestar, but I guess that would spoil the dramatic surprise.

[@AzureanSky]

Plan Two, Three and Four all together would be the best plan to use in this battle.

[@botondkalocsai5322]

I generally like BSG, however, the destruction of the Pegasus was the second thing in the series that made me angry, upset. The first was the death of Cain, which was an direct consequence of Gaius's activity. She was the most prominent, efficient warship commander that the series ever introduced. Though she has committed serious war crimes (by marauding civilans), we should admit that, the fleet was never in safe on such a high level, like under her controll or ruling (afterwards Adama admitted that he didn't find any fault in her tactical decisions). Gaius's brain should have been splashed out in time by a bullet into his head, and Cain would resolve the battle with ease. (Interesting fact that both of Adama and Cain were "native" colonists from Tauron, but they did a clearly different approach on being a commander.) The loss of Pegasus seems to me very enforced turn in the story by the screenwriters, and totally doesn't fit in any way into the logic of the plot. Besides the facts, you have mentioned, it seems totally unreal, that in other battles the Pegasus absorbed far more densely ordenance, for much longer time, and it's subsystem remained fully operational, include it's ftl drive. Moreover it's also clearly irrational from the screenwriter's, that permanently crippling the Pegasus, and her FTL drive, required much lesser time, then temporarily disrupt the FTL of Galactica, because Pegasus were far more armored then galactica. In addition, i can not understand why the hell Lee didn't used the same tactic on the other basestar like he did on the first, that he pretty rapidly destructed. Every necessary condition were given, the forward batteries and targeting system remained operational. He could have those kickass main batteries of the pegasus aim at the rotating axis of the second basestar, and it would termine the basestar just like the first. So if we having regard to the performance of Pegasus on previus engagements, the Pegasus should have been capable of eliminating the remaining basestars, and only get moderate damages.

[@SnappyVolcano]

Could the pegases or the galactica have perfomed a orbital bombardment on the cylon barracks and communications while the raptors engage at close quarters?

[@RayPall]

As Roslin once said to Lee: "You're so hellbent on doing the right thing that you sometimes don't do the *smart* thing."

[@SLagonia]

That's why this isn't a plot hole - This is Lee's decision exactly how his character would make it. He's a good CAG. He's a bad Battlestar Commander; And that's fine. That's his character. This isn't bad writing, it's a character flaw.

[@roosiniimiamiciii6666]

@@SLagonia Agreed

[@NATIK001]

@@SLagonia Too often when enjoying fiction people forget that the characters aren't perfect, they don't have perfect information, perfect personalities or skills, they may be gullible, stupid or otherwise ignorant of things we as viewers or readers know. A lot of "plotholes" are really just us viewers/readers having more information or a clearer perspective than the characters.

[@diapason89]

What Adama said: "Damn you, Lee." What Adama wanted to add: "That's an expensive Battlestar!"

[@JustElijahRS]

Lee: "THIS IS THE GREATEST PLAAAAAAAAA-"

[@Angryp0nY]

An irreplaceable and valuable asset that is beyond quantifiably important.

[@felixleong61]

@@JustElijahRS *Fail* Lee, who you think you are? Charles?

[@notthebeaver1532]

He also said, "Thank you" in his next breath...🙄

[@mirandalockey7334]

“Tell that to the cylons”

[@bohellan6227]

This lessened Lee in my eyes so much that I stopped cheering for him. His command of the Pegasus is best remembered by Major Kendra Shaws opening comment "...it doesn't diminish the idea that your daddy handed you command of a battlestar like he was tossing the keys to a new car."

[@TheCrackedFirebird]

Well said.

[@starspaceschool587]

To be fair following this sequence and somewhat before Adama berates Lee for being to soft to command.

[@scotcarr3390]

Y'know, in a real armed force, there are brilliant & capable soldiers & excellent flag officers. Lee was a superb flyer & CAG, but he demonstrated time & again he was completely unsuitable for general staff membership. Just because the other yoyos who took over Pegasus after Cain were even worse, you do not put somebody on the General Staff, which under their circumstances, commanding Pegasus was a de-facto Colonial General Staff level position, who are unsuited for it. For that matter, Adama isn't exactly suited to be Chief of the Colonial General Staff either, as demonstrated by some of his own boneheaded decisions. She may have been ruthless. She may have even been murderous. And no one can deny she lost perspective through her hatred of the Cylons. But, sadly, Cain was probably their best commander. I also think she would've murdered Adama & abandoned the fleet after the battle of the Resurrection Ship. She may have given Adama a pass once, but the next time they conflicted, she'd have killed him.

[@theuncalledfor]

@@scotcarr3390 Abandoning the last survivors of humanity is not a competent command decision. There is no point in attacking the enemy when you have to allow them to slaughter your people to do so. She was an imbecile and a worthless, sad excuse for a commander. It doesn't matter how skilled and/or talented she is in any other aspect of command, strategy, and tactics, she is utterly worthless in the one most important aspect of military leadership.

[@scotcarr3390]

@@theuncalledfor As a human myself, I have to say that you're being slightly unfair to Cain. I totally agree w/you that she was ruthless, borderline sociopathic, & dangerous. BUT she had good reasons for all of of her decisions. Were they correct? She was convinced they were at the time. I don't think they were myself, but who am I? I'm not in her position.

[@Mobius_118]

Plan three brings to mind a comment I saw in the video of the Pegasus's destruction: "Lets have a big hand for the crew of Raptor 108 that appears to be going one on one with a Cylon Raider and an even bigger hand for Raptor 238 that seems to be attacking a pair of Baseships by itself."

[@edwardkim4213]

"The Pegasus' FTL drive was disabled" Clearly, Pegasus lacked plot armor... :(

[@ThePathStrider]

There is no greater plot armor than having the show named after you, although that disappears when the show ends.

[@protorhinocerator142]

@@ThePathStrider Roseanne from the Roseanne show, later renamed The Connors. Valerie from the Valerie show, later renamed The Hogans. I think the best plot armor is being pure awesome all the time no matter what. This is what saved Spock and Han Solo even after they killed off the characters.

[@ZeldaTheSwordsman]

The Galactica's got crippled too, ICYDK

[@jasonissel217]

In the story with the Pegasus and the Engineer captain, the crew that was left down there were not well trained, and the one person that knew enough about how the FTL worked was dead. The reason the FTL failed was probably two reasons, a design flaw in the model that left the FTL prone to fail if certain damage was taken, as we have seen this failure in the show before, and the lack of well-trained crew.

[@ColonelFrontline1152]

All of you 5 plans are much more better then what actually happened. Great planning "Admiral Daniel Spacedock".

[@BoisegangGaming]

Someone put it pretty well: "We're losing our second-best ship! Quick, send in our best ship!"

[@TealJosh]

It wasn't the ships that mattered, it was the people.

[@curious5887]

​@@TealJosh well, the ship does matter, especially if it was meant to protect people in the ragtag fleet

[@sam23696]

The Pegasus should have been lost in an ultimate last stand, against dozens of Basestars, killing some major Characters in the process. Seriously the only time we see Battlestars destroyed was in the start of the show, and during Adama's flash back of the Colonia. We should have seen a Battlestar die in battle with it's fists swinging, not running head first into a wall. The way they handled it lessened the show a great deal for me.

[@Barrobroadcastmaster]

She shouldn't have been lost at all. She should've jumped at the last second amid a massive explosion that left everyone else wondering if she might have made it out.

[@sam23696]

@@Barrobroadcastmaster for a spin off show? If not these kind of productions don't need loose ends like that.

[@smalliesmalls9601]

Sorry to say, but they needed the extra set space for the cylon civil war arc

[@williamalfonso1373]

There is also the Movie Blood and Chrome, battlestar columbia's weapons are disabled and the ship gets destroyed.

[@braderickson9996]

I'm going to second a comment lower down. The loss of Pegasus never did sit well. Pegasus was clearly the superior Battlestar, and if you are trying to survive, Adama should have transferred his flag to Pegasus. If the Pegasus was more equivalent to the Galactica, as in the original TV series, well...that's a different story. But, this is not the original TV series, they are entirely different classes, as presented in the reimagined series. In the latest series, the logic works but...it doesn't, not really, if...you start thinking about it. Wish the scriptwriters had done the same.

[@themadhammer3305]

What I took away from the series is that Galactica is a much more tanky vessel, designed to fight toe to toe with the enemy. In the fights we see Pegasus in she seems much more suceptable to damage and relies much more on her vipers and ECMs to not get hit leading her to technically be less capable in a fight than Galactica was I may have misunderstood how the ships were presented but that's what I took away from it when I watched the series initially

[@briansouthparkstudio1357]

@@themadhammer3305 this is true the Pegasus is less tanky then Galactica but it doesn't need to be it has a strong ECM field powerful and more accurate point defense and flak as well more vipers and raptors (as it had larger flight pods with both pods working) and more fire power having 30 primary turrets that fired 25% faster (thou with not as good firing arc's less guns can hit above or below) and 4 fixed bow guns to Galactica 24 primary turrets as well as being able to use raw ore to make replacement parts and small craft (vipers having a dedicated line) Pegasus was the better ship for the fleet more as a manufacturing ship alongside it's power in defense

[@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547]

@@briansouthparkstudio1357 "The Pegasus is less tanks then the Galactica" the Galactica is a sheet of paper in comparison to the Pegasus. In the epsiode the Exodus the Galactica is almost destroyed by 4 Base stars in a few minutes while the Pegasus in an earlier episode faces an ambush of 4 enemy Basestars, in the initial ambush it's FTL drive is disabled so it has to fight the Basestars for an extended period of time and dosent really take any lasting/major damage, while the Galactica is almost completely destroyed in around a third of the time it takes the Pegasus to recieve minor damage, this is partially due to the Galactica being stripped of much of her armour when she was turned to a museum ship.

[@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547]

@xheralt the spam filter. The Electronic countermeasures and firewalls created by the second Cylon war for the more advanced vessels would be completely impervious to th Cylons if it wasn't for the Backdoor Caprica Six installed into Gaius Baltars FTL navigational programm and this is according to 3,1, Caprica and even Gaius Baltar on multiple occasions. Human military technology was superior in the second Cylon war with the exception of FTL drives , Fighter technology and Dreadis systems.

[@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547]

@Matthew Caughey actually it did, its network was just offline for repairs which is why the virus couldn't infect the whole ship and it could later be purged.

[@billgalactica2982]

Yep, all the plans make better sense! I'd go for a combination of three and four. Get the raptors to launch the drones, wait for the two basestars to go check it out and then send in the nuke armed raptors to take them out. The Galactica then to move into a position above New Caprica to launch a combo of Raptors and Vipers to aid the New Capricans to the ship's on the ground. Meanwhile, hold Pegasus back in the nebular to 're-in force' Galatica once the second two basestars emerge....not that I haven't thought about this much 😄😄 Though I love the 'Adama Manoeuvre' as a visually stunning effect, can't help but think after watching your video, this was a desparate gambit by Adama to create surprise.

[@GonzaloAlvarezWoodCat]

Agree with the combination you mention. Will be an equal or more degree of sucess with less loss on resources and damage. Victory in several ways!

[@JimKirk1]

You know, that's a damn good idea. If you don't mind, I think I'll use that in my short story.

[@AgentExeider]

you could still do the Adama maneuver, if instead the Galactica jumped farther out, while the Pegasus slid into orbit to recover GALACTICA's fighters, and the Galactica comes in to main fire the base stars now coming after Pegasus. The Galactica didn't need to stay where it was to recover the fighters, it could have moved evasively to provide fire support for Pegasus , while Pegasus recovered the fighters. (To which they could transfer it back later after the fight.)

[@wesleycrawford8500]

It was implied that vipers would not make it to the planet in numbers enough to deal with cyclon towers and troop coloumns. If you jump raptors in going lose a lot them from the jump. It did not make sense to sacrifice Pegasus though should been death song of Galactica with Adama surviving to flee to Pegasus.

[@ukmediawarrior]

The loss of the Pegasus never sat right with me from the moment I saw Lee decide to go to his fathers aid. From an emotional stand point it fits Lee's character, and I disagree that if the roles had been reversed the Admiral would NOT have gone after his son. We see in other episodes where Lee is missing, hell even Starbuck, that Adama goes out of his way to stay in dangerous situations to get them back. I loved the Pegasus, it was an incredible ship and as he says here it was newer, more powerful and could construct Vipers and train the pilots so why everyone just went along with Lee's decision to basically go on a suicide mission to rescue his dad doesn't make sense in any form. Bad writing just to get an admittedly awesome visual spectacle and a stomach punch when the Pegasus goes down in flames.

[@mammothmk3355]

But then the show would have to change name, because you know, our main character Galactica isn't there anymore. ;)

[@ukmediawarrior]

I suppose I meant that the lack of fallout for Lee puzzled me, how the writers let him off with destroying arguably the most precious commodity the fleet had at the time, more so than even the Galactica. He wasn't stripped of rank for disobeying orders and losing the Pegasus, he hardly even got a slap on the wrist. And yes the visuals were amazing, but as the Pegasus was slowly being taken apart I was thinking what a waste it was and how could the writers let this happen

[@DragonWyrm]

Agreed, especially with your point about the Admiral. He absolutely would have gone out of his way to save Lee, as he did several times throughout the series.

[@ukmediawarrior]

Mammoth Mk3 Yes, LOL, I suppose they would have had to do that. In the original series which I grew up with, and still love, the Pegasus vanished into space after protecting the Galactica, it wasn't destroyed and I liked that, that they had survived even if they did draw off the Cylons to chase after them. Maybe something like that would have been a better angle than simply seeing the best ship they have blown apart. Maybe the writers kinda wrote themselves into a corner a little, they had to save the Galactica because as you say its the hero of the show, but they had put it in such a no win scenario the only way out was for something equally important and big to go down

[@grayscribe1342]

Mammoth Mk3: Or they could have done the totally unexpected. Show the destruction of the Galactica with most of the skeleton crew ecacuated via Raptor FTL jump from inside the ship and rename the Pegasus to Galactica.

[@vichodeivis1219]

Impossible, Spacedock did it... The final age is upon us

[@bjornjoseph]

okay.. i thought i was the only one obsessed with this. ive been debating this topic since the episode aired...

[@usul573]

If they didn't need to redress the Pegasus set to be used as the basestar, maybe Pegasus would have survived. Damned budget.

[@MatthewBanks100]

This honestly bothers me more than anything that ever happened in the series. The Pegasus could have survived easily

[@forevergimmly7343]

i always have the feeling the pegasus died to fast in this battle... i looks like the galagtica took much more damage and kept going while the pegasus went from a battlestar to a deathstar

[@Gunnar001]

@@forevergimmly7343 The Pegasus wasn't designed for close knife fight range battles. That type of space combat was outdated by the time the ship was created. It was all about long range engagements and sophisticated electronic warfare. The Galactica, on the other hand, was a heavily armored tank that was specifically designed with brutal close combat in mind, as seen in the First Cylon War. Sure, the Pegasus was undoubtedly more advanced and could unleash a lot of firepower, but, it simply didn't have the incredible durability of the old Galactica.

[@forevergimmly7343]

@@Gunnar001 thank you for your comment, it makes the difference in tankynes understandable :)

[@sarpeleveninos4897]

@Fabian Kirchgessner galactica în his last battle figt to much powerfull army that pegasus dose. Adama was much smart than The comander of pegasus was. În some battle you need to be muck clever

[@sarpeleveninos4897]

@Fabian Kirchgessner The Last battle of galactica was smarter than pegasus Will do în 3 life

[@MyColonelSanders]

I agree with many of the arguments made. However, it is important to remember that BSG is primarily a drama and does not focus on visual entertainment like big budget Star Wars. The point of this scene was to show Lee was willing to sacrifice his command and the potential survival of humanity on a mission he thought was hopeless because he couldn't deal with the guilt of leaving his dad behind. There are hundreds of tactical mistakes made during this show, many presented on purpose to show the flawed humanity involved. BSG is a masterpiece of drama and i think its unfair to diminish it with pure logic because for all our posturing, humans are rarely pragmatists when loved ones are involved.

[@btly-wing6531]

Nuclear-armed raptors... I'll have to remember that one

[@reaver1414]

BTL Y-Wing they used a raptor to deploy a nuke when Boomer docked with a basestar disguised with a cylon transponder. Installing a missile launcher under the wing would be pretty easy.

[@starspaceschool587]

They also show it explicitly when attacking the cylon colony. They even had launch systems built into the raptors.

[@randomguy-tg7ok]

. . . I'm assuming the Death Stars are going to blow up multiple times again.

[@Phoenix-214]

Canon materials also state that Vipers could carry and fire nuclear missiles, which would be even better for the proposed strategy laid out by Daniel.

[@Nightdare]

All I wanted was sharks with fricking laserbeams on their heads, but not even that could be acquired

[@TheOneWhoMightBe]

How to save Pegasus: Don't put Lee in charge of anything. :)

[@ancaplanaoriginal5303]

How to save everyone in the ragtag fleet*

[@bcmm1880]

Lasted longer than most of Pegasus's commanders

[@promnightdumpsterbaby9553]

Thats not fair,though i sympathize. He was a sound tactician till this cluster fuck.

[@williamcostigan91]

Personally I think both Captain's Hand and Razor showed that Lee was a natural Battlestar commander. The year of atrophy on New Caprica though seemed to have sapt him of all of his skill and good judgement. Or rather the writers needed the Pegasus gone and made Lee look like a fool to do it.

[@frankharr9466]

@@promnightdumpsterbaby9553 "Thats not fair,though i sympathize. He was a sound tactician till this cluster fuck." Lee's just like his father.

[@NonsenseFabricator]

I'm seeing many comments saying Lee shouldn't have been in command in the first place. As though there was an academy of qualified alternatives to draw on. Real life militaries often end up with commanders more inept than Lee, despite having time and money to train recruits drawn from populations of millions. With only about 50,000 surviving humans, it's realistic that their pool of qualified personnel is extremely shallow. Episodes like 'The Captain's Hand' showed that Lee was a competent commander in terms of technical and leadership skills. He wasn't exemplary, but he was better than the alternatives that were actually available.

[@AgentExeider]

Honestly, I don't blame Lee per se, I blame the shitty plan, Lee's good at tactics just bad at strategy. If the plan was anything like what was described in the video, Lee would figure a way to pull it off in situ.

[@jamesxiaolong2199]

What they should have done is have the crews of both ships board Pegasus so she could operate at maximum efficiency. Or just drafted all the civilians into the colonial navy and left the fleet unmanned at a rendezvous point.

[@jamessullivan4391]

Nah, Lee sucks.

[@s0nnyburnett]

@@jamesxiaolong2199 Except the civilian ships provided resources to support the war effort and there weren't any to raid and pillage Cain style.

[@jamesxiaolong2199]

@@s0nnyburnett the rescue seemed to be a do or die situation, I think for a single battle it would be ok for the civilians to be drafted. They’re not all going to be Viper jocks but they can make sure both ships are operating at their best capacity. There’s probably only around 4,000 human in Adama’s fleet at this point, far below a viable population for humanity’s survival.

[@dajona7860]

The narrative was likely inspired by Commander Cain's similar sacrifice in the original BSG, where he used the Pegasus to launch strategic weapons at a pair of Cylon Base Stars at point-blank range. Unfortunately, mimicking the narrative goes from homage to cringe due to previous narrative decisions - primarily in that the original scenario had both ships of the same class, but in nBSG the Pegasus was a *vastly* superior combat ship possessing *critical* strategic resources in its factory and training facilities. This made the sacrifice of the Pegasus a dramatic sight, but *catastrophic* strategic blunder on a scale that the *average** viewer* with *zero* *military* *knowledge* could see how short sighted the decision was. Had Lee traded another ship of the same class as Galactica to save it, it would have been seen as a more-or-less even trade, and understandable for the audience.

[@Restitutor_Orbis_214]

Well, it did fit the narrative of massive military incompetence on the part of the Colonials. In the original series the dialogue made it clear the Cylons had a vast numerical advantage. The reimagined series just shows the Colonials as utterly incompetent despite possessing such powerful ships in large numbers.

[@richardkenan2891]

The Basestars in the original series were also significantly more dangerous than they are in the new series. In the old series, it was close to a one-for-one equivalence, where a single Basestar was at least close to a match for a Colonial Battlestar. If you correct for the Galactica being the hero ship of the series, the Basestars are even more of a good match. In the new series, Basestars are horribly designed and even more horribly misused. They are incredibly fragile compared to Colonial Battlestars, and have no guns at all, only missiles and Raiders. They *DO* have a metric buttload of both, but a Colonial Battlestar can protect itself quite well from missiles and Raiders with flak counterfire. There's a reason that the best the Cylons could manage over the course of the series was to keep Galactica from settling long enough to properly repair itself until it fell apart from metal fatigue.

[@richardkenan2891]

@@Restitutor_Orbis_214 Military and industrial incompetence among the Cylons too. Don't pretend the Colonials had uncontested control of the idiot ball. The Second War Basestar is one of the most idiotic ship designs ever conceived, and the Cylon attack at the start of the Second Cylon War would have done nothing but get the Cylons wiped out by a freshly enraged Colonial Fleet had somebody caught the flaws in Baltar's software.

[@deinekes9]

I've been waiting for this. Excellent points in the video all around. However, I'd like to add a few points. While Spacedock made excellent tactical critiques as well as quite a few operational points, it is the strategic scale that really decides the situation here. If the overall objective is the survival of humanity, then the colonials' fate as a whole was to be decided at New Caprica. Recall that the small population that kept off New Caprica was not genetically viable and, in all likelihood, not materially viable. Those few thousands that escaped would not have survived long, even without further Cylon pursuit. Therefore, both Adamas were ultimately wrong: both battlestars should have went in together with everything they had. On the operational side of things, there were equally egregious assumptions by the colonials. Lee leaving the Pegasus' CAG behind with the civies was absolutely idiotic. The Civies cannot maintain the Vipers or retrieve them under fire. The Vipers would have been deployed only once as a suicidal distraction at best. The only effective defense the civies had was the FTL jump which, of course having Vipers in the air was at best useless or at worst detrimental. With a proper accounting of friendly and enemy assets (even with the latter being somewhat sketchy) and objectives, the colonial fleet should have gone in with a full blooded strike. Each fully equipped Battlestar could go 1on1 with a Basestar victoriously and hold off two with some trouble. As Spacedock mentioned, there were additional tactical options that would have given the colonials a more or less favorable tactical and operational outcome. Of course, there was the operational problem that the colonials did not know the true strength of the Cylons and could not risk a prolonged attritional exchange. This problem could be simply, though perhaps not easily, solved with a predetermined contingency plan: in the event of overwhelming odds, at least one battlestar was to jump out. By this point, enough civie ships would have gotten off the ground to ensure colonial strategic viability. Ideally, both would survive, though it was also possible that both could be lost. However, this method would play the odds in the most sensible way with the greatest chance of a mostly positive outcome.

[@junker-f3m]

I agree with most of what you're saying, however you're working backwards from the knowledge that Earth I was a nuclear hellscape. At the time, the Colonials had no reason to believe that there wouldn't be a welcoming committee waiting for them on the 13th Colony, so the question of genetic viability isn't quite as serious as you've made it out to be.

[@richardkenan2891]

The loss is even stupider when you realize that the Galactica can go 1v1 against a Basestar. The Pegasus is vastly more powerful, and can almost certainly defeat two of them if it has its CAG in support. 4 Basestars vs. Galactica and Pegasus is stupid odds for the Cylons to take. That is a consistently losing battle for them. People rag on the Adamas for how this battle was run, but the Cylons definitely didn't cover themselves with glory in the planning of this operation. They have suffered minimal casualties in the Second War and their industrial base is completely intact. They should have sent in *DOZENS* of Basestars. Because they still have a functioning, spacefaring civilization behind them. The Colonials do not.

[@ronin3381]

This video is well thought out and competently made. You’re knowledge and enthusiasm for this show are very commendable, but I’m afraid I have to disagree with all of your alternative solutions. 1. Lee leaving his fighters behind was quite a sensible decision, in my opinion. He knew there was a good chance that neither the Pegasus nor the Galactica were going to survive the battle. Fighters are just too valuable an asset to risk. After all, Vipers would be perfectly capable of defending the fleet against Cylon raiders whilst the fleet prepared to jump. This has been shown many times throughout the show. As you noted, they probably wouldn’t be able to do much against a baseship, but by the time one of those arrived the fleet would ideally already have jumped away. Of course, a squadron of Vipers is nothing compared to the protection a battlestar can offer, but it is nonetheless a credible way to defend the fleet and it would frankly have been irresponsible for Lee not to leave them behind. 2. I’m not sure a nuclear strike would have been successful. Baseships are not defenceless. It’s highly doubtful a squadron of raptors would be able to launch missiles before being intercepted by Cylon Raiders or missiles. Also, if a nuclear strike could have been successful admiral Adama would have executed one. The fact that he didn’t probably indicates it wasn’t possible for the above mentioned reasons. 3. The Adama manoeuvre was an essential part of the plan and not doing it would have meant none of the civilians would leave New Caprica alive. This is because the Cylons had raiders flying within the atmosphere of the planet. Raptors would indeed have been able to destroy the watchtowers and aid with the evacuation, but they couldn’t have dealt with those raiders. They needed Vipers to destroy the raiders or else they would have shot down the fleeing civilian vessels. 4. Using civilian vessels as a means of engaging and distracting the Cylon baseships would have been an exercise in futility. Most civilian ships in the fleet were not armoured and even those that were could never sustain more than a couple of missile hits. All such a tactic would be likely to accomplish is to make the other ships in the fleet a little more cramped than they already were. And finally, I also disagree that admiral Adama would not have returned to New Caprica if his and his son’s roles were reversed. In episode five of the first season, William Adama risked the survival of entire human race to search for Kara Thrace even though she was long out of oxygen and it was uncertain if she had even survived the crash. He send out every viper he had and even scattered the civilian ships to find his pilot, leaving the fleet wide open for a Cylon attack. Eventually he did abandon the search but only because the president gave him a dressing down. At the end of the episode, Lee asks his father if he would go to the same lengths to rescue him if it were him down on the planet instead of Starbuck. The commander replies that if it were him down there they would never leave. I think that scene paints a pretty clear picture of how the admiral would have acted in Lee’s place during the Battle of New Caprica. Whilst the loss of the Pegasus was certainly wasn’t the preferred outcome, I do think it was the only one where everyone made it out alive. And at the end of the day, when there are only 39.000 humans left, saving the thousands of souls onboard Galactica was far more important than the survival of the Pegasus.

[@davidedens6353]

This whole situation shows up one of the major differences between the old show and the newer show. In the old show a state of emergency remained in effect which essentially left the military in charge of the overall situation. Adama was not only the last surviving member of the original Council of the 12 he was also the head of the colonial military at the fall of the colonies and the Battle of scimitar. This left him uniquely qualified to lead the fleet in the original series. In the new show they use an American style continuity of leadership system which keeps the civilians in charge and completely ignores the emergency nature of the situation allowing people so completely unqualified to make these decisions to actually be running the government. While I do not have a problem with Laura Roslin as a character there are others like their version of Baltar who just suck and this whole situation is completely and totally unbelievable. I cannot think of any situation where the entirety of humanity were reduced to less than 60,000 people that the military sworn to protect those people would let the civilians do something so phenomenally stupid as settle down on that planet and pretend like the cylons don't exist

[@coderpup4639]

I know your comment was made two years ago but maybe now you can see why the people wanted to settle on the planet regardless of the threat. For the last year our govenments have been shutting things down and initiating lockdowns for people and already a good portion of the population wants it all to end even if the virus is still a threat and mutations a future threat. Humans get mentaly tired and irrational when they can't do what they want. Imagine being in lockdown on a small ship for a couple years and suddently you have a chance to be on a planet with fresh air, grass and open space.. logicaly it should be a no but most would take the risk as they did in the show.

[@davidedens6353]

@@coderpup4639 I don't believe you can compare the situation where the facts are still so murky because of all of the suppression of information going on as to wool what the actual nature of the threat of this virus is as opposed to the deaths caused by incompetent government officials to a race of cybernetic beings hunting you down to commit genocide

[@SadenIsWatchin]

@@coderpup4639 I gotta agree with David here, the situation is beyond 'more drastic' in BSG.

[@kevinhenrique4256]

I now this is Old but anyways,its Baltar Fault yes but for other reasons,New Caprica Nebula Provided a Cover,Its not that Dumb of a Idea to Colonize It,the Cylons only found it Because of a Nuclear detonation by Gina that he Freed,if that did not happened new Caprica would have stayed Hidden and mandkind would have Rebuilded itself on the Planet.

[@davidedens6353]

@@kevinhenrique4256 That still ignores the whole immortal robots hunt you down aspects of the story. The Cylons would have found them eventually. The Nuke merely ensures that it was during the lifetimes of our characters,

[@usel1500]

I really appreciate that you acknowledge why the show runners did it the way they did. I think it would have been really easy to just call it a foolish strategic mistake and ignore it's role in the story. Excellent work, as always.

[@jsullivan649]

yeah i never understood their decision to kill off the greatest asset they had... the Pegasus was a true guardian for the fleet..

[@greggv8]

They did it because the original series had its Pegasus lost (or was it?) due to the actions of a less than competent commander.

[@sarpeleveninos4897]

@@greggv8 galactica was 100 Time better than pegasus

[@duran99adam]

its finaly here! Thank you Spacedock

[@highgrounder5238]

How to save Donnager?

[@GonzaloAlvarezWoodCat]

that's one I like to see...

[@AlexSDU]

Is it the one from Blood and Chrome? My memory a bit hazy.

[@mr0240]

How to save Reach or limit lost

[@GonzaloAlvarezWoodCat]

and those are?

[@AlexSDU]

+Gonzalo Alvarez I couldn't find any reference of Donnager from the link you gave.

[@AviatorFox]

I always had a huge problem with this battle. I knew that both the Adama maneuver and the Pegasus' suicidal charge were reckless, but I sincerely appreciate the graphical and detailed approach that you offer us here as it clarifies this situation better than I had been able. Thanks Spacedock!

[@RinaRavyn]

Even with Lee foolishly jumping in with half strength pegasus and without Vipers, the surprise attack he was running couldve simply demolished the cylons proper... We see the distance the Pegasus was at, when it jumped in, so in that time after mincing the first cylon beehive, they coudlve gone for a second, and then would be in a nicely cut down 2v2 that they could manage with ease... But as is per usual in BSG, space combat is nothing but eye candy or a plot device.

[@Debbiebabe69]

Pegasus wasnt trying to 'mince' all four basestars. Pegasus was trying to eat as many missiles as possible that were aimed at Galactica, to give them time to fix their ftl drive. Standing at range and slowly 'mincing' base ships would leave the toasters free to finish off Galactica before all four of their ships were 'minced'. Also remember that in the resurrection fleet battle it was just 2 battlestars vs 2 basestars (all 4 ships fighter complements were engaged elsewhere). In this battle, even if you consider the Galactica fully functioning rather than near death, and assume the Peggy 'minces' two basestars from range, it is them 2 battlestars vs 2 basestars and *3200 RAIDERS* . Three thousand two hundred raiders. That is why the Galactica was almost destroyed and the Pegasus destroyed. 3200 raiders.

[@pim691]

@@Debbiebabe69 The Galactica had a superior flak battery complement and could withstand a couple more hits. The Pegasus easily destroyed 1 basestar from a distance and coule have the done the same to another within half a minute. Hell, I'd say he could even destroy a third one before they could fully avert their attention to him. He should have brought his viper complement and made them defend the pegasus. That would have been better.

[@Debbiebabe69]

@@pim691 Galactica was finished, the command crew had already resigned themselves to the fact they were dead. Raiders were inside her flack battery and pumping holes into her unopposed, while those 4 base stars were landing hit after hit through the flak. As for Peggy, could she even field enough vipers, or more specifically pilots, to effectively fight? Almost all the best pilots in the fleet were on the ground, and even sending out 'nuggets' there is now way Peggy could field a full complement of vipers. Also remember in 'The Captains Hand' the Peggy was hit by at least 3 fissile missiles, all which exploded. It was never fully explained how much damage those nukes caused and if she fully recovered from that damage.

[@CuriousMind477]

I loved this scene in the series so damned much, but I really do have to agree. The way that Pegasus went out was grand, but made little to no tactical sense.

[@ODST_Parker]

I love this! That whole battle, when I wasn't stunned into silence by the amazing shots of the Galactica's last stand and Pegasus saving the day, I was thinking to myself, "Where'd all of those assault raptors go after the drone launch?" or "Why are they not using nukes when they're so heavily outnumbered?" and things like that. Come to think of it, why did the Cylons not use nukes? They clearly have that capability, and out of four basestars, not one Raider was carrying a nuclear payload? Setting a nuke on the ground, waiting until the battle is already over? That's not very efficient. Blasting the whole colony from orbit? Done by lunch.

[@KhrisKillerX]

Why has Spacedock not featured the Mercury class battlestar? It seems so obvious a choice. Hopefully this oversight will be rectified soon. Love the channel! Keep up the great work.

[@kpmh2001]

he did do a video on it recently if you haven't seen it.

[@Sephiroth144]

@@kpmh2001 Why has Spacedock not featured the HMS Fearless (CL-56)? It seems so obvious a choice. Hopefully this oversight will be rectified soon. (Hey, it worked once...)

[@marcboss6]

Adama should have transferred his flag to the tactically superior ship and assigned Lee the rescue mission

[@Sephiroth144]

Not like they'd like his son, who got the job... yeah, how you would think he got the job? Hell, given the crew left in the RTF that jumped away, I don't think the crew make-up would be an issue.

[@starspaceschool587]

Not really. Remember the human race needs to win this battle to continue existence. It would be better to lose both battlestars than lose this battle. If Adama didn't think Lee could do it which obviously he isn't a great commander than Adama was correct in leading the mission.

[@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547]

@@starspaceschool587 they didn't need to win they only needed to stall until the civilians evacuate and the same civilian ships would have all survived even if the Pegasus had never arrived.

[@starspaceschool587]

​@@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547 The did need to win, they had a strategic objective of getting the human race off the planet. If they achieved that objective than they win even if they lose the battlestars. There are plenty of examples in history of winning battles with losses.

[@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547]

@@starspaceschool587 then they still would have wone without the Pegasus' intervention

[@ModelMinutes]

I 100% agree! When I first watched it, I was surprised that he decided to let the pegasus get destroyed, seeing as it had so many good qualities. It's the whole reason Adama didn't want to risk it in the first place! It just didn't make sense to me - and if it had been a different tv series, I probably would have stopped watching - but I really wanted to find out if they found earth . .. .so . . . didn't . . .

[@Damaroka]

Sometimes I lay in bed, wide awake. My window is open, I can hear the sounds of the highway in the distance. I take another drink from the bottle of Scotch I keep by the bed. I reach for the pack of smokes that I promised myself I wouldn't buy, light it. I walk up to the window thinking to myself the same question that haunts me for the last 10 years, _why sacrifice the Pegasus with such reckless abandon?_

[@LodenVor]

Regarding the Adama Manoeuvre and raptors, the main purpose of getting the vipers into the atmosphere quickly seemed to be to tackle the raiders that the Cylons had based on the planet and that posed a serious threat to the departing civilian ships. The raptors probably wouldn't have been able to provide adequate cover while the ships took off.

[@MrPeanut624]

In conclusion... *Don't give Lee your best ship*

[@douglasrowland9986]

Don't give Lee any ship :)

[@jesseadair5564]

Don't give Lee anything

[@Juan-ng7rs]

@@jesseadair5564 oh no he died

[@joestevenson5568]

He does pretty well with his fancy mk7 viper and the blackbird. Just keep him as a top gun, not a commander.

[@jaffarebellion292]

@@joestevenson5568 He killed the blackbird in one sortie to a piece of stray debris. He's got kind of a track record of getting nice shiny ships blown up.

[@MrGeek2112]

Superb analysis. A couple of other options: Deploy a single nuclear armed raptor at the center of each drone cloud, tasked to destroy / disable the basestars once within range. The drones could act as a screen as well, giving the raptors a small chance of escape. A stealth equipped raptor could haven given Galactica a precise jump point coordinate between the two (known) basestars. A sudden appearance of a battlestar with element of surprise could have resulted in destruction of at least one. These basestars would also risk hitting each other in counterattack. Combine this with planetside deployment of raptors and the Cylons would be in disarray. Excellent as always!

[@theoffshorecartel9322]

Thankyou!!! been waiting on this for years.

[@johnrogers8749]

Highland great video

[@coreydonaldson3303]

The final mission for the Pegasus is a very cool and memorable moment in the Battlestar Galactica series !

[@KuDastardly]

Dude IDK about Adama wanting to abandon his son if the roles were reversed. Remember the episode when the Colonial fleet was ready to abandon the search for Starbuck who was downed on a planet? Lee asked his father what he would do if it was him. Adama replied: _"If it was you, we'd never leave."_

[@paulcontos5965]

Thank you for this video. Ive always hated the loss of the Pegasus.

[@nefariousgremlin7554]

Still not over her, eh?

[@mihugong3153]

me neither

[@dmacbass]

Not me! Lee is a moron.

[@56bturn]

I would've liked them both to survive.

[@badbeardbill9956]

Yeah. Not only is having two battlestars awesome, having one that can build freaking fighters is better than that!

[@rsrt6910]

I'll NEVER forget or forgive Lee for losing her. (Shoulda given ME the pink slip on "The Beast". I'da done her right!)

[@chalithj2000]

Your videos make me feel as if those universes were completely real, keep the good work.

[@HeadlessChickenTO]

I think both ships could have survived if they both worked in tandem. Galactica seems to have better anti-fighter capabilities vs Pegasus which seems to be better suited to ship to ship combat.

[@DanBennett]

I never tire of your shows.

[@kevinbarber2795]

I love these kinds of videos. :)

[@simontmn]

Leadership incompetence was a running theme throughout the series.

[@Revan0822]

I think if Kendra Shaw is still alive during the rescue mission, the tactics might be much better.

[@jonathanhazel3760]

very good and interesting story and plan because the battlestar pegasus is my favourite spaceship in the universe.

[@Jules_Diplopia]

If Admiral Adama was such a good commander then he would not have gone in on such a suicide mission. He would have been aware that his son was not of sufficient command caliber to either a. follow orders and /or to command the fleet.

[@giancarlowolfe3654]

It's a shame the wirters killed off Cain's staff. They could have written in some new officers/leaders.

[@starspaceschool587]

If the admiral did not go in on the high risk mission then humanity would die off. Better to risk success than have guaranteed drawn out failure.

[@joeleek9976]

@Fabian Kirchgessner the officers from Pegasus were ok with killing civilians and torturing skin jobs. I would want a galactica officer at the head of that helm. Someone like Felix Gaeta.

[@joeleek9976]

@Fabian Kirchgessner -he became that person after the amputation. He wouldn't have been on that mission if he was the commander of the Pegasus.

[@MrSwift2568]

Seeing this gives me closure. I was never able to finish that series because of the writing. Battles like this that just didn't make sense bugged me too much.

[@TheSerbianEmperor]

Old man shouldn't have given Lee the command. That's all I'm saying.

[@chickenmonger123]

TheEmperorSRB He wasn't fit for it.

[@TheSerbianEmperor]

chickenmonger123 he he he

[@Echowhiskeyone]

A better choice would have been Karl 'Helo' Agathon. He was the Galactica's XO during this time, but would have made a better Battlestar Commander than other officers available for a 'combat' mission. Lee was good, but he is a better administrator than combat commander; hence, not a great Battlestar Commander.

[@redshirt5126]

Fabian Kirchgessner There's a fanfiction called "Over the Hill" where that happens. It's a BSG/SG1 crossover where before The Fall of the Colonies Adama and a bunch of ships are sent on an expedition to find Kobal. Jurgen Belzen is given command of his own Battlestar and is part of this fleet.

[@MrPingn]

Jon Broschat There are some good ones there. Been especially enjoying the one called World War by AlbertG. Also enjoyed his Trek/B5 crossover. And he and Helo would definitely been better COs

[@andrewparker5564]

Awesome analysis. It's been a while since I've watched this show but after watching this video I'm going to have to revisit the series.

[@OmegaTou]

This definitely felt like lazy writing. "The Pegasus is too awesome, how can we get rid of it?"

[@usul573]

They didn't have the money to build another set actually. If they had the money, maybe Pegasus would have survived longer.

[@protorhinocerator142]

So true. The whole thing made me feel "led by the nose". Here's where we destroy the Pegasus and make it look like nobody had any other choices.

[@DaDitka]

You raise a good point. I wonder if the show's writers saw the name of the series and said, "This show is called, 'Battlestar Galactica,' not, 'Battlestar Galactica and Pegasus.' So how do we get rid of her?

[@Androsynth75]

Pegasus was actually luck: a failed pilot for a lost in space reboot took up the studio next to where Galactica was filming. The show co-opted the set (ironically the Pegasus is actually a dolled up Jupiter 2 set) and in s3 the studio was taken back for another show so they could no longer film scenes on the Peggy, hence Lee’s badly handled assault

[@MrPingn]

Nicely done. I enjoyed the show's ideas from a theatrical standpoint. But you laid out a much better plan.

[@ror359]

Saving Pegasus may have been the logical choice, but saving the galactica was the emotional choice, and Lee always thought with his heart, not his head. Emotion over intellect is kinda the theme of BSG, so the decision made makes character and thematic sense

[@LeReVid]

A precise and direct analisys. My respects!

[@bencoomer2000]

Oh good. I wasn't the only person yelling at the show at this point.

[@conroypaw]

Yeah... completely agree. Thought about this back in 2008, but you know... plot. The Pegasus would have been the better ship to save, but the show is called "Battlestar Galactica" and the Galactica, was arguably, a show character in itself. Also, Lee's mission was to save Adama, as much as everyone else he could. To him, his father, the military leader of the surviving humans was more valuable in the long run, than a Mercury class battlestar.

[@ThatOneGuy46696]

At last.

[@spasticnerfbag4072]

that battlzone audio in the intro hit me in the feels.... -----2 minutes later just bought it on steam

[@prince-solomon]

Nah, the Pegasus felt like a guest star from the very beginning. The show is about the Galactica, hell, it´s called Battlestar Galactica for a reason. Many of you talk about "that´s so unrealistic blah blah blah" when it comes to the Pegasus´ end, well, most "advanced/awesome" ships don´t go down in a blaze of glory or in a heroic sacrifice, it´s often an unsatisfying, inglorious and brutal death, like the Bismarck or the HMS Hood. It doesn´t matter what you could´ve done with these ships in an "optimal" scenario. The awesome ship is gone, now make the best of this situation and don´t look back. -> that´s as real as it gets. The writers had to get rid of that ship and they did it in an appropriate manner. There was a sacrifice but it came at a cost, the loss of a splendid ship, which probably should have been saved. Well, the Colonies should´ve been saved too, but it´s too late. Make the best out of this situation and move on. Also Lee is no command material^^ , he is an ace pilot, nothing more.

[@leow637]

I agree, the point of the sacrifice wasn't about making the best tactical decision possible. Adama already made that based on the information he had: jump Galactica in, create a surprise and grab the attention of the cylons, let the civs escape then sacrifice his ship and life while the civs met up with a safe Pegasus. What we saw here was a dilemma with Lee's priorities. He knew what the best tactical decision was, but he was conflicted - he felt guilty for having left in the first place, now he's letting his dad commit suicide while he's still hiding. He also probably realised that he would now be leading the fleet as the commander of the only Battlestar, something he's already struggled with in the past. They acknowledge it was a tactical mistake ("Damn you, Lee!") The loss of the Pegasus was a junior and over-promoted commander panicking and making an emotional decision, not stupid tactical ignorance on the part of the writers.

[@JetSetRadiumFuture]

I understand all of this, and I like the Battlestar Pegasus, but the show is called, "Battlestar Galactica" and a character that gets them through their journey to Earth. Great vid tho!

[@St-hj1ux]

Couldn't the Pegasus FTL in a favorable position after cutting down the first base star, we seen the galatica do it from orbit.

[@TealJosh]

When Lee jumped in with Pegasus cylong were dealing out finishing blows to Galactica. All major systems were down or failing, rcs thrusters dead, main thrusters dying, ftl offline and main batteries and flak gone. Galactica was in unsurvivable situation and within few minutes of being punctured so badly that athmosphere would've started escaping uncontrollably. What I want you, all of you to understand is that Galactica was seconds from being destroyed. So, Pegasus entered the fight, saw the dire situation, destroyed couple basestars with initial barrage, but Galactica was still getting destroyed. So she flew in between galactica and basestars, maybe it was bad luck I don't know, but she immediately lost FTL. That was it, game over for Pegasus, it didn't have crew to perform combat damage control.

[@patrickdavis1463]

I agree totally with you. Even a combination of using larger ships as decoys, drawing away the 2 base stars and then launching a surgical strike by a wing of raptors with nucs to destroy or disable the base stars would have made tactical sense. After launching their strike, jump back to the civilian fleet or provide transport for evacuating the planet. Running a simultaneous attack on the planet surface with the remaining raptors to provide support in the air and on the ground to confuse the Cylons even more. When the remaining Base stars jump into orbit to provide assistance, have the two battle stars jump and engage the ships in orbit while providing a wing for Vipers to assist the extraction teams on the planet's surface. The remaining ships, used as decoys - if any survive, provide transport areas for off-loading civilians and refuelling depots for the returning raptors. With the area secure, the Galactica and Pegasus can gather supplies and resources and then return to the civilian fleet while suffering acceptable losses in raptors, transports, vipers and pilots. If at worse, just rename the Pegasus as the Galactica. Story and TV show continues. lol

[@imeize]

I should watch BSG again. I quit watching after they established a colony on New Caprica. They had such a long gap between seasons back then I forgot about the show. I guess I’ll see if Netflix or Amazon have them available for streaming!

[@АнтонГоршколепов]

You stopped watching at the exact moment it all started to go downhill.

[@majgijoe]

BSG is available on Prime.

[@nunyabeeswax303]

imeize its on Amazon

[@stephendean2896]

I enjoy your break down of key battles in Battlestar galactica By pointing out huge holes in key battles I hope it Influences future sci-fi writers To do better job in writing Futuristic battle scenes

[@XLentGamingNetwork]

Plan 3 wouldn't work, at least not completely. The Raider squadron next to the decoys would be able to intercept the nukes.

[@Euripides_Panz]

How to save Pegasus. Have it take a skeleton crew lure the Cylons away, seemingly on a suicide mission similar to TOS. Have Galactica, most of the remaining Vipers and Raptors aid in rescuing the New Caprica survivors, with Galactica continuing on towards Earth with the civilian fleet. While most of the surviving Colonials continue the search for Earth, and the show can still be "Galactica," there is, an in TOS, the possibility Pegasus is still out there surviving on her own or finding another seed of humanity to protect and build a new colony.

[@Sephiroth144]

Or here's what I said from shortly after the viewing- everything goes the same as the show up until Pegasus destroys the first basestar... Instead of playing "hey, I'm a target", and going into the middle of the basestars, Pegasus should either 1) turn towards the next basestar and drop another alpha strike on it (from the front arc), or 2) microjump away, and microjump back to do the same thing. (The Galactica could weather the reducing fire for a few more moments, I'm sure... Especially since the Basestars would likely be more worried about the ship that just splashed a quarter of their fleet) Six microjumps later, should have essentially wiped out the Cylon Basestars- and even given that the Basestars wouldn't just sit around waiting to be fragged, the Pegasus definitely outclasses them one on one- by not SITTING AROUND LIKE A GODSDAMNED FLAGETTATE and, I don't know, attacking the enemy more than once, you might defeat the enemy and not have to sacrifice your ship because you're an incompetent fighter-jock turned commander. (And suddenly, I think I see where Holdo got her anti-Poe leanings =p )

[@stephenwhyte2849]

You are the second person in the comments section that recommended the micro FTL jump strategy. The plan would have worked and allowed the battle stars to rescue the civilian fleet and return to the meetup point

[@Sephiroth144]

@@stephenwhyte2849 And even without the microjump- just aim at next bloody basestar at range... getting into the center to be the damage sponge was the worst idea one could come up with. You're the DPS, Apollo- stop trying to be the Tank.

[@Sephiroth144]

@@piotrd.4850 Disagree- Pegasus was able to jump in, reasonably close to the fight. The Beast was able to fire a heavy barrage. Peggy was able to manuever (into the worst positioning possible). And we KNOW the Pegasus's KEWs can autofire ("Set main batteries to autofire cycle B"). Even if they couldn't perform microjumps (for whatever reason), Pegasus could've stayed as a mobile attack craft instead of being a punching bag. But moving into the center of the enemy formation? That was intentional suicide- moving around, destroying the enemy would be strategy with an eye towards victory. Sure, they MIGHT have had to abandon Pegasus- Lee's "strategy" ensured they would.

[@AgentExeider]

Honestly, the Raptor assault plan is probably best, use nukes to take out the first two base stars, then when the other two jumped in, have both galactica and pegasus focus fire on one base ship. I'm trying to remember where I saw it but two battlestars can destroy a base ship inside of 3 minutes with broadsides (the gun captains getting into tempo they just pound the base stars into chunks). Have the fighter squadrons engage the raiders, then switch fire to base star 4 once base star 3 is destroyed, focus fire with either main forward guns or get them into a broadside again. Fighters mop up raiders, fighters and raptors return to battlestars, and jump out.

[@exexpat11]

The Raptors would have had a Greater Surprise Value if they had FTL'ed in and nuked before the Battlestars FTL'ed in. Raptors would have faced few if any fighters and the Point Defense Systems of the Basestars would not have reacted in time. It would have been they appear and fire almost point blank.

[@stephenwhyte2849]

This video provides a good analysis on alternative strategies/scenarios for the Battlestar Pegasus to save the Galactica /escaping civilian fleet and itself in the "Battle for New Caprica" First and foremost Commander Lee Adama could have enlisted the help of the crew of the Pegasus to formulate a German Blitzkrieg (or Lightning attack) strategy in 18 hours. He did nothing. Second, my strategy is a modification of the Picard maneuver used by Captain Picard in the first season of ST TNG. Captain Picard used this maneuver with the USS Stargazer to destroy a Ferengi marauder when it attack the starship without warning. The USS Stargazer executed a micro warp jump and seem to be in two places at the same time. When it appeared in front of the ferengi starship the USS Stargazer launched all weapons and destroyed the ship. The Battlestar Pegasus could execute a number of micro FTL jumps to confuse the Cylon fleet. It would be a better strategy than option 2 (which was used by Commander Cain in " The Living Legend I & II in the original series) If you look at option 2, the Battlestar Pegasus enteres the battle zone above New Caprica and finds the Galactica surrounded by 4 Cylon basestars and their fighters. Next, the Pegasus attack one Cylon basestar and quickly destroy it. The computers on the Pegasus could calculate the position of the 3 remaining basestars and execute it micro FTL jump. When the Pegasus initiate its first

[@xjboy550]

Feck not seen one of these programs but dam you are good at detailing the key elements

[@lovetoeatallthefood]

Reasons the Pegasus was destroyed: 1) The show was called "Battlestar Galatica," not "Battlestar Pegasus". 2) The Pegasus was destroyed in the "OG" BSG series, probably for similar reasons (see point 3). 3) Keeping Pegasus around made storytelling more complicated/challenging, and getting rid of it allowed a return to the series status quo. IMO, the last point is an example of the most disappointing aspect of BSG: for all of Ron Moore's railing against the Trek tropes when he ran DS9, he did many of the same things with BSG. It's just that the BSG story arcs ran a bit longer before they would hit the "Reset to status quo" button.

[@briansmith5579]

Great analysis and creation of alternative strategies. I always hate it when a sci-fi work employs a frankly inept strategy for story's sake, it makes it hard to watch since it is so forced. I love when a truly thought out plan is used, it makes it feel more realistic and much more enjoyable. I'd love to see more of your analysis and alternative plans for other battles or even a doctrine of a group.

[@andrewm4691]

To-Do List: Watch Battlestar Galactica because I haven’t before BREATHE

[@highgrounder5238]

Andrew M You dont know what you missed. Do it right NOW!

[@wreck-itralphreuss7075]

Firstly, I love the breakdowns. All of the different analysis on alternative strategies. I definitely agree for the most part that the loss of the Pegasus was unnecessary and there were several different alternative scenarios that would ensure both victory, and also survivability of both battle stars. I will say this regarding your last comment about Bill Adama acting dispassionately by leaving his son behind, I don’t think that would happen. On one hand, the stakes would be so high with humanity. Survival at the loss of his son, would be an acceptable loss. However, because of that situation, it also means every person is that much more valuable. Regarding sacrificing raptor pilots, they could’ve just remoted that shit in with nukes on timed detonators. Blammo! Then just wailed on them from a distance.

[@tegf4]

I agree with you. The battle was a joke. I was pissed It went down like that. After that I Lost Instress in the show. At that time I was thinking of them doing maneuvers Like the Star Trek Discovery does. 2 battle wagons alternating shooting and jumping at almost point blank range. That's the Teg F4 maneuver. Even before STD was thought of.

[@AlfaTrionThaHighlander]

Very interesting, and well argumented tactical plans. Great how u worked them out in this video. One thing i miss is the one thing i had alway's in mind was that the writers could have wanted to have been true to the ORIGINAL series, where the Pegasus also dissapereared. Although there it was in deep space, now it 's vanishing was used in a well written script. However from a pure strategic view Spacedock is right, but the reason should be seen from a "sf-movie" point of view also. It gave directors the chance to edit the Adama manouvre also, for spectaculair, never seen before footage.

[@bcmm1880]

1:00 Pegasus: Blows up after running into basestar Galactica: Rams into the Colony (much bigger and stronger than any basestar) and survives even with the "cuts" that was taken to make it... think about it.

[@marckrieger3277]

Wow you finally did that! Really a good video but i think you forgett some things. Both Battlestars dont have their full wings, because of loss in the battles before and pilots beeing on new caprica (like Starbuck). Also the vipers which were started in the adama manouever protected the starting civilian ships against cylon raiders, a feat raptors could not do as good. Also also the two battlestar only could destroy the basestars in the battle of the reserection ship because there raiders were lured away. I allways thougt the best way to win the battle is to first do the adama manovure (with the galactica of course), then when the two basestars react, pegasus can jump in and take one out like it did in the show. Then the two colonial ships can finish the remaining basestar with ease. When the cylon reinforcment comes in to play the colonials should have no problem to hold them of long enough until the civilians escape. Well that video was the last nail in the coffin for me, considered your self pledged on patreon by me.

[@stuchly1]

yeah, losing the pegasus just like that... I gotta admit, that's one of my least favourite parts of the series.

[@Negativvv]

Adama would have returned also, Lee is his son and remember the episode in S1 where he almost scrapped every Viper looking for Starbuck? The Raptor nuke plan is probably the most sound however I think two skeleton crew Battlestars might have had far more trouble facing two Baseships as the Resurrection Ship battle was the Colonials at nearly full strength. Lee was a limited captain yeah but his suicide run made sense as the Cylons couldn't ignore it and it allowed both Galactica and the Civilians time to escape, if he tried something more complex then it might have back fired and then everything would have been lost...

[@rionmoonandroid]

Spot on alternatives to handling the battle and a great review of decisions made. However, the real reason the Pegasus was destroyed was that it was in the script and the original series features the Pegasus and was also lost so the creators of the show were somewhat following the original story. The show is Battlestar Galactica, not Battlestar Glaactica and Pegasus. I think, from a story telling stand point, the continued existence of the Pegasus in the show would have overshadowed the older, less capable BSG and taken to much of the spotlight way from one of the main characters - the Galactica herself. It's unfortunate that the writers couldn't find a way to better utilize Pegasus and leave her in the show but then this is the same set of writers who effectively left a foul taste in everyone's mouth with the poorly conceived ending of the series .

[@AK_Vortex]

Lee was a viper jock. His attempts as a Battlestar Commander were only overshadowed by his attempts to be a capable politician were beyond woeful. I get the point that with 49,xxx people remaining, we all make sacrifices and deal with change but Lee's character was like watching my son have a tantrum whenever he didn't get his way. With that said, I agree with you that from story telling, it was good.

[@utxex97]

Your points re: the Adama Maneuver show that the old man wasn't a great tactician either. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[@DanielB__]

Agreed Spacedock. I was not happy that the Pegasus was sacrificed.

[@raymondstpaul4913]

Lee Adama crashes his own fighter then Pegasus an finally convinces the remnants of Humanity to disgorge their tech an go primitive so they can die of disease, hunger, an hardship. The Cylons are so proud of him doing what they could not to ensure the colonials end. If I were Adama I'd have given stricter orders and announced to the crew 'if they disobeyed his orders not to bring the Pegasus into the battle risking their only real asset to destruction he would be executed son or not along with those that didn't follow the order!"

[@splinteredmind4949]

Excellent analysis and breakdown as usual.

[@templarw20]

The loss of the Pegasus was when the writing for BSG when downhill. In a way, it represents when the show began its slow descent to one of the worst endings of a sci-fi show I have seen.

[@kbomb1235]

What are you talking about. The Story of BSG was already written. Its like trying to come up with an interesting version of the story of the Titanic. We all know how it ends, whether you like it or not, that's the lore of the story.

[@raymondstpaul4913]

Totally agree the writers lost their way with the series. It would have been better to have the ship do as the original series did that to me made more sense. It was another of the producers stupid decisions of the series in which had that reboot last scene which even to this day makes me cringe with how stupid it ended.

[@stab74]

Already written? I assume you're joking as Ron Moore frequently admitted that they had no great plan to end show and were winging it from season to season, hence the terrible series finale.

[@darwinxavier3516]

I think he means that it was always meant to be that the Galactica would be there when humanity resettled. Unless they were gonna do something wildly different like everyone dies.

[@casbot71]

I remember reading somewhere that the producers did admit they kind of lost their way during the second half of series 3.

[@Turanic1]

love these battle plans more than other videos I think, so Homeworld like ...

[@kevinvandal8595]

1. The show is called Battlestar Galactica 2. The production team need the space for the new basestar sets

[@VelociraptorsOfSkyrim]

Kevin Van Dal 1) Irrelevant. They could have easily renamed the Pegasus Galactica. 2) Also irrelevant. They didn't need to destroy the Pegasus to get new Basestar sets.

[@kevinvandal8595]

1. No 2. The studio was to small for 3 big sets

[@jamestruelove-ralph3753]

The best strategy to use is if you combine plan 2, 3 and 4 all into one The raptors can destroy the two basestars as well as raptors and maybe some vipers are sent down to the planet to assist in the evacuation once the basestars have been destroyed the other two would likely be called in and the Galactica along with its remaining vipers and the nuclear armed raptors could easily take both of them out this is a much better strategy than the one they used in the show and I liked your one so I combined them and added some of my own ideas in and I would love a visual representation of this because I think it would look really cool

[@anulovlos]

I was under the impression that the Pegaus, despite being newer and a better flagship for the human diaspora, was actually in worse shape than the Galactica due to the decisions made in The Captain's Hand. Due to the personnel reduction resultant of the colonization of New Caprica, both battlestars lost personnel but Pegasus, having fewer to begin with, felt the consequences of a skeleton crew more heavily. Adama's decision to leave Pegasus behind was with the knowledge that Galactica was more fit for the fight and Pegasus would at least be able to defend the remaining fleet until she could be brought up to full strength, should the rescue fail. Remember that above all, the Big Damn Heroes maneuver was planned to rescue the people, not the ship. That and the writers wanted to have Pegasus go out in style but didn't have the budget for more elaborate visual effects that are necessary for all of these suggestions.

[@DanielRMueller]

Lots of good ideas, I think. One thing I found interesting is that I think this is the first time the Galactica lost its FTL due to enemy fire. But it happened before to the Pegasus. Maybe a weakness in its design? My "counterpoints" however: We see in a previous episode that the planned decoy maneuver already was difficult to pull off and required several training sessions. I strongly suspect that that they don't have the (skilled) manpower to pull of a an even more complex mission involving civlian ships or additional Assault Raptors. Both ships had basically only a skeleton crew around, lots of people were on New Caprica. If they don't do the decoy maneuver, the Cylons have ships in orbit and deploy Raiders and Heavy raiders to the planet and can intercept anything the Galactica deploys to the planet, and any ships making their escape. Since they need most of their Raptor pilots for the decoy operation, they need a way to deploy Vipers in the atmosphere fast and for maximum surprise. Hence the Adama maneuver So in the end it comes down to whether Lee takes his available Viper pilots into battle, keeps them with the civlians, or doesn't help at all. No one knows what tricks they have up on their sleeves, but if a Cylon Raider or Basestar can track them somehow after all, the Vipers can at least intercept the initial missile barrages until the civilians jump away. It's not ideal, because it probably screws the Viper pilots, but at least it gives the civilians a fighting chance. And not helping at all - losing the Galactica means losing a signfiicant amount of skilled crew, and stranding the Galactica's Viper pilots, plus potentially losing some additional escape ships because the Galactica isn't around to stop the Basestars.

[@rocketguardian2001]

This happened because despite their excellent writing skills in terms of creating dramatic and insightful stories, the BSG creators were notoriously terrible at logical consistency. I love this show, but there are so many logic errors at key moments that it kind of irritates me on occasion.

[@SirJustinTheLion]

Excellent video and analysis, I thought the same things after watching the episode, not right away because "wow that's amazing!" After, from my armchair, I said: "Wait, why didn't they do 'that'"?

[@UkrainianPaulie]

No real tactics used ever. The Pegasus could have sat back and destroyed the basestars.

[@BEOBIGEVILONLINE]

Bravo. You can be on my Zombie Response Team any day