How to SAVE The Muppets

Kermit, Miss Piggy and da gang are not in the best spot as far as Disney brands go. After the failure of Muppets Now and Muppets Mayhem and The Muppets, I’m here to provide a solution on how to save these beloved puppets. It may involve returning to The Muppet Show…
Twitter: / joe_brennan_
Letterboxd: letterboxd.com/joefinbarr/
Discord: / discord
Outro Music: • Futuristic Sci-fi Bac...

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I recorded this whole video while wearing Muppet socks, without noticing or drawing attention to it. That's how committed you know I am to these guys.

[@nathanielk7415]

need proof in dms

[@petros6013]

I’ve got Muppet socks too haha.

[@FatFiber8096]

I used to have animal socks

[@IsiahTomas]

#69: Beacuase it's hilarious?

[@bobbieisnotcool]

iconic omg

[@dinosaysrawr]

I feel like Disney fundamentally doesn't "get" the Muppets and why they're so beloved, because most of their recent attempts at "using" them have either come across as too cutesy-cloying or too smugly self-aware and snarky. Disney fundamentally doesn't seem to understand how to be earnest without just being naive and how to be irreverent and goofy while still caring deeply, so they don't know how to strike that balance with the Muppets.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

It’s such a difficult line to walk but the best projects have all managed. I agree that the general decline in quality is directly in line with the decline in that understanding

[@spcglider]

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Disney is fake. All fake. They calculate how to force the audience to love them. There's not a modicum of honesty in the process. And they are VERY good at that process. The Muppets aren't fake. At least they weren't until the performers started dying and retiring. Thats why I had such hopes for the next generation of characters coming off Muppets Tonight. They were alive and vital and loved from the inside out as the performer's babies. Disney doesn't understand the Muppet process. And I'm not talking about Steve Whitmire's black-list-y gatekeeping of the property. Frank Oz always said "The Muppets aren't sweet." And he's right. But sweet is everything that Disney wants to do. Everything that Disney is prepared to back up. Everything that Disney has designed its process to manufacture. And thats why The Muppets don't belong with Disney. Though its funny how the whole international sale of the Muppets that happened after Jim's Disney deal fell apart is never really mentioned. If you think Disney is doing them dirty, you really should look up THAT debacle.

[@benmalsky9834]

I think there have been several projects where the folks at Disney DO “get” them, most notably the 2011 film, Muppets Haunted Mansion and The Muppets Mayhem

[@maugdw]

Ever since seeing someone pitch The Muppets Beauty and the Beast where they're all Muppets apart from the beast and at the end he transforms into a Muppet, i need it

[@Joe_Brennan_]

That sounds delightful. Why are we wasting time on live action remakes when Muppet remakes are right there

[@maugdw]

@@Joe_Brennan_ Exactly, I would watch all of them. It we would way more creative, interesting and just fun than any of these live action remakes

[@FatFiber8096]

I’ve seen a few muppet parody’s of Sweeney Todd called Sweeney frog

[@davidleavitt835]

​@@FatFiber8096Miss Piggy singing Worst Pies In London. Something both dreadful and, at the same time, something I would LOVE to see.

[@BMoney8600]

I need that!

[@nathanielk7415]

i really genuinely can't understand why disney seem to refuse to go down the muppets christmas carol/treasure island route and just make a fucking movie about something else with the muppets as the characters. it's a foolproof idea that literally made the greatest Xmas film of all time

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I wonder if maybe it’s better to build that kind of project on the foundation of Muppets being an existing thing as themselves. “Gonzo from the Game Awards in Pride and Prejudice” isn’t as exciting.

[@nathanielk7415]

@@Joe_Brennan_ that makes sense. although maybe a good way to make people remember why they care about the muppets is through a movie with another rlly popular thing might lay the groundwork to make people care about the show they need?

[@CarysCantDance]

@@Joe_Brennan_ Gonzo in drag as Elizabeth Bennet in Muppet Pride & Prejudice would be exciting and on brand for Gonzo though!

[@DoriDoesVoices]

Right, why not Muppet retellings of a few Disney films? I mean, all they do is reskin old stories anyway. They just don't care about them much.

[@CeceSaysHi_950]

@Joe_Brennan god damn it Joe now I want muppets pride and prejudice

[@mollymcdade4031]

One thing I’ve noticed is the slickness of the current puppet models. Part of the charm of the original Muppets, even up to Christmas Carol and Treasure Island, is that the puppets are all slightly scrappy. Disney has made them too clean and clinical in their designs, to the point where some of them don’t really look like themselves anymore. I want to see the bobbles on the felt

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I’ve noticed this too, I feel like Piggy is one of the biggest offenders

[@emmagrayce4271]

They're even editing out the arm sticks! They don't need to di that!

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Apparently Kermit was recently meant to appear on stage as part of the Gutenberg musical but it couldn’t be squared with Disney because they wanted the puppeteer hidden at all times. Awful!

[@emmagrayce4271]

@@Joe_Brennan_ THATS SO RIDICULOUS 😭 they know nothing about the heart and the art of what makes the Muppets who they are and it is so upsetting. I wish Disney would sell them back to the ppl who care. bring back Steve too tbh

[@dillonohlemiller401]

@@Joe_Brennan_I mean they want Kermit, not the puppeteer. Kermit’s a celebrity in a way.

[@alexmott507]

Obviously the correct answer is "Muppet Lord of the Rings"

[@Joe_Brennan_]

That’s the best answer of them all

[@aquaarietta]

And/or Muppets Les Mis

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

@@aquaarietta Muppets The Producers or something. (Or Muppet Princess and The Frog.)

[@messiahshepherd9266]

That's the one answer to rule them all, one answer to bind them.

[@perrilewis180]

And Muppets Dracula. Get a human to play Dracula so it works

[@magnetoonproductions9541]

One solution might be returning them to the Jim Henson Company. After all, they’re doing a great job with Fraggle Rock. It only makes sense for them to be in charge of their signature brand again.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Has Disney ever relinquished an IP it owns but doesn’t use? I can imagine them preferring them to rot under Disney than thrive anywhere else

[@magnetoonproductions9541]

And the Jim Henson Company doesn’t have deep enough pockets to get them back.

[@WiGgYof09]

​@@Joe_Brennan_ they sold power rangers back to Saban.

[@jayo1212]

A better solution would be to have Disney buy the Jim Henson Company in the same way they bought Pixar, putting Brian Henson in a senior position on the Disney board...

[@werewolflover8636]

@@jayo1212No! Disney will just destroy Jim’s legacy if they get a hold of it and make it so no other film company other than Disney could hire them to make any practical effects!

[@TheBeastBoss04]

The Muppets have the best Christmas Carol, with Doctor Who being the second

[@Joe_Brennan_]

They’re both such bangers

[@itsjayden8002]

Obviously the 3rd is AVGN

[@NealHunterHyde]

What I’m hearing is that we need a Doctor Who x Muppets crossover on Disney+ in 2025, and I’m here for it!

[@DoriDoesVoices]

@@NealHunterHyde Bro, you're a genius!

[@luisdominguez2048]

The one with Scrooge Mcduck is pretty good too!

[@CroakPad]

I rewatched The Muppets (2011) just a couple days ago, as I watched, I thought the exact same thing you said in this video: they need to bring back the variety show. I think a modern version of The Muppet Show would have a chance at success.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I really wish they’d try

[@benmalsky9834]

I absolutely love the 2011 film. Every time I see it I get teary eyed.

[@Jimbo676-dc4fq]

Simple, you just make a Muppets Star Wars trilogy of films

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Maybe that’s what Rian Johnson is cooking up

[@forrestdupre87]

We need more Muppet adaptations of classic stories.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

It’s so surprising there hasn’t been one in so long, given how much A Christmas Carol defines their modern identity

[@forrestdupre87]

@@Joe_Brennan_ I think James and the Giant Peach would be a good choice or the 3 Musketeers.

[@GrubStLodger]

The ABC Muppets with a full-stop was so joyless at first but it did improve a lot but Muppets Mayhem was wonderful.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

So glad to know others enjoyed Mayhem as much as I did

[@jonnytbirdzback]

I thought Disney finally did something right when The Muppets Mayhem premiered a year ago, but it got canceled after 1 season. Totally uncalled for.

[@benmalsky9834]

@@jonnytbirdzback Well, as long as Adam Goldberg and Bill Barretta are willing to continue to collaborate, we will continue to get more projects just like it. They wouldn’t see the cancellation as a tragedy, but a window of opportunity for things to come.

[@CeceSaysHi_950]

The question of “What do we do with the muppets” feels like a trick question from a teacher, the best answer is the most basic but everyone is too scared to say it for some reason…

[@Joe_Brennan_]

That’s a great way of putting it

[@vegetafan9922]

"What do we do with The Muppets" Well, that's an easy answer. **Pulls out sharpie marker** -What do we do with- The Muppets

[@ryko1478]

@@vegetafan9922 Teacher: THAT'S A CHALK BOARD WHAT ARE YOU DOING

[@FatFiber8096]

As a fan of Jim Henson and puppetry as a whole I genuinely think we could get good muppets content again

[@Joe_Brennan_]

It’s definitely possible, there have been sparks of magic in practically everything they’ve ever done. We just need the spark to light the fire etc

[@benmalsky9834]

@@Joe_Brennan_ Yeah, I think what we all need is more of the good stuff more often, like more of what the 2011 and Mayhem accomplished.

[@EdizAndBen]

A weekly Muppet show on Disney Plus would be amazing! As well as celeb guests for each episode, I'd love to see sketches on all the random ip's they now own. It could even tie in and help promote new releases. A lion king spoof to promote Mufasa or Dwayne Johnson hosting when Moana 2 is released. A new series of Xmen 97? Kermit is cyclops, animal is wolverine and dr bunsen is prof x! It would surely be a corporate synergy dream!!

[@spencerpetunia8268]

But you see, that would actually require Disney to think creatively and care about quality for once.

[@ttintagel]

It could even be a series of specials.

[@historyhen8149]

So many shows just aren't given the chance anymore. Loads of shows start kinda rocky and then grow to become amazing and in modern streaming if its not immediately trending its gone 😢

[@Joe_Brennan_]

It’s also putting people off even starting shows because of how likely it is that a continuation will never see the light of day

[@benmalsky9834]

This is why I think the weekly release model works wonders in the streaming age.

[@CraigGrannell]

I remember bailing on Muppets Now for two reasons. First, it got stale pretty quickly, doing the same thing week after week when The Muppets had always been about variety. But the there was a sketch where Dr. Bunsen Honeydew started trashing Beaker’s treasured possessions. My wife and I gave each other a look and we were both done. That one sketch showcased a critical misunderstanding about what The Muppets are. They can have problems. They can be mean sometimes. But they shouldn’t be cruel. And the production itself certainly shouldn’t be playing cruelty for laughs.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Yeah there are so many unspoken rules about these characters that you’d potentially struggle to name until they’re broken, when they seem blatant

[@brockpifer9929]

Yeah I remember watching Muppets Now when it was released, and I immediately disliked it, it was so boring and stale. There’s nothing enjoyable about it at all. It is definitely what I consider a bad Muppet project and one of the worst Muppet shows

[@CraigGrannell]

@@brockpifer9929Yeah. It probably had enough good material for one show, but the format just off. Even so, for us it was still watchable (if not particularly good) until that sketch that made us switch off. Honestly, I find the whole handling of the Muppets baffling. We get these odd moments where people get it - the reboot movie and some of the KZbin shorts, like Bohemian Rhapsody and Popcorn. But it’s like no-one looks at those and thinks: let’s just do loads more of that.

[@brockpifer9929]

@@CraigGrannell yeah. Like I think a couple good ideas for The Muppets is to try another show and even do a new movie. I thought of some ideas. For the show, I thought of this concept of where Kermit has his own late night show, where it’s like a mix of The Muppet Show, The Larry Sanders Show, Seinfeld and The Jack Benny Program. Like where Kermit brings on guest stars, while also having the classic Muppet songs and skits. 2 possible titles I thought of for the show are A Froggy Evening with Kermit, or Froggy Evenings with Kermit. For the movie, I thought of reviving or make a film loosely based on one of 2 Muppet movie concepts that were developed but never went into production. One of them was one that Jim Henson, Frank Oz and Jerry Juhl all kinda worked on together called The Cheapest Muppet Movie Ever Made. The other was one called The Next Muppet Movie, that was written by Brian Lynch, who wrote Illumination movies like Minions and The Secret Life of Pets, and also wrote Puss In Boots for Dreamworks. If you wanna know about what the drafts and scripts were like and what the stories were about for those proposed films, then I suggest you check out this video called The Muppets’ Cancelled Movies: A Henson History by Retro Ruckus. He fully dived deep into projects that were developed at one point but just never saw the light of day

[@benmalsky9834]

I think it would have been much better as originally planned, as a series of shorts rather than three shorts stitched together.

[@kdjets]

Well, Jason Segal figured it out in the 2010s and helped to produce two of the best comedies Disney has ever committed to. It's such a shame that after those two movies we didn't get anything else from that era. Those films were impeccably good.

[@benmalsky9834]

I can’t believe that Muppets Most Wanted’s box office results made them decide not to make a third entry. It’s so sad that the box office is the deciding factor in whether more installments get made.

[@nothingrhymeswithorange5294]

Frankly, i dont know why Dishey hasn't properly done Muppet Star Wars yet outside of merch. They have everything right there it practically wrotes itself.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I’ll just hold onto the muppet show episode as the pinnacle of the crossover

[@nemo_of_napa]

Instead of making live-action remakes , Disney should do Muppets remakes.

[@ttintagel]

Muppet Fairy Tale Theater could be such delightful anarchy.

[@ChrisKeziahHyde]

What we need is a Muppet Doctor Who episode.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

This is RTD’s end goal having the show on Disney+

[@worthybutter2004]

That's already happened.

[@ChrisKeziahHyde]

@@worthybutter2004 which ep?

[@samuelsolomon7330]

Saw one comment suggesting the muppets playing a dnd campaign, with celebrities playing their ingame characters with the muppet voices playing over. It could definitely make a great hour long special.

[@bug7055]

They really had a good spark with the ABC Muppets comedy, I wish they had a 2nd season

[@Joe_Brennan_]

It could’ve been wonderful!

[@bowlerhatfilmsandreviews2778]

Great video. We need a “The Great Muppet Escape” movie where the gang try to escape out of Disneyland and the mascots of other absorbed franchises like Star Wars are the prison wardens trying to stop them

[@christianwise637]

Or maybe a film about the Muppets being brainwashed and taken over by a shadowy corporate entity one by one while the others try and fight back and prevent themselves being assimilated, a la Invasion of the Body Snatchers

[@benmalsky9834]

That would be way too cynical for anyone to enjoy. Most people DO like the new projects that have come post-acquisition.

[@benmalsky9834]

@@christianwise637 Again, I am not that cynical to think of such a concept. All we need is a something in a similar vein to what Muppets Mayhem was, but with a better release schedule.

[@bowlerhatfilmsandreviews2778]

@@benmalsky9834it doesn’t have to be cynical, I really like some of the post Disney productions like the 2010 movies and the ABC TV show. But long time Puppeteers like Frank Oz have resentment towards Disneys take on the Muppets and I think that’s worth exploring through the narrative lens of a new movie. I imagine such a hypothetical movie would have a tongue in cheek meta attitude to it, not that different from past Muppet projects but the climax be a compromise of classic and modern ideals for the Muppets.

[@benmalsky9834]

@@bowlerhatfilmsandreviews2778 What would you think such a new movie would be about that would be ideal?

[@calebchristiansen3065]

I absolutely loved Muppet Mayhem, and am so sad that I didn't see anyone talking about it, it really felt like a return to form!

[@benmalsky9834]

I am hopeful that the team behind it will come back for another project in a similar mold or Muppets Mayhem will come back if the fans demand it enough like how The Clone Wars and Star Trek Prodigy came back after serious fan responses.

[@leprechaunfarmer4081]

If Bob Iger doesn’t even care about the Muppets then he should just simply sell the brand to another company that does care about these characters and will know what to do with them. I think Universal and ClassicMedia might be a good fit

[@Joe_Brennan_]

They’d be hard pressed to do a worse job

[@jayo1212]

Or buy the Jim Henson Company and leave the franchise to those who better understand it...

[@benmalsky9834]

I think he does care, he’s just been too preoccupied with other things

[@benmalsky9834]

Personally, I don’t but into this rumor of auger not caring about the Muppets. The way I see it, they just haven’t been at the forefront of his attention so much as Pixar, Marvel and Lucasfilm’s IPs have. He probably loves them just as much as everybody else.

[@SSJPENGUIN]

I've always wished they'd bring back 2015 The Muppets but I've accepted it'll never be the case

[@Ar_cadez]

very sad. i feel like you could tell what arcs they were setting up too (not just kermit and piggy) so its a little disappointing well never see those stories.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

There’s so much from the last few years that could have grown into something amazing but wasn’t given the opportunity

[@Asukenick]

Steve never should have been fired.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

It does feel like a major loss

[@WiGgYof09]

I think Steve was a great performer, but I wasn't terribly fond of his Kermit outside of MCC and MTI. I think being Kermit went to his head a bit and the JHC just dealt with it, but Disney saw him as a being in subordinate. He was a performer, and they wanted him to perform what they wanted, not what he wanted. I will say, it speaks volumes that he has not been involved with Sesame Street or any JHC project. He didn't even return for Fraggle Rock, a project he was a major part of.

[@Asukenick]

@@WiGgYof09 Fraggle Rock was his favorite project. He was hurt when he wasn't asked to take part in it. I can't find myself to even watch it because Steve is my favorite performer. I love everything he does.

[@jayo1212]

@@WiGgYof09 I think it was the JHC who saw him as a being in subordinate... But see, it's this whole "He said-they said" that makes his departure particularly upsetting...

[@jayo1212]

@@Asukenick I feel the same way. I mean, it's one thing to have someone new take over for Jerry Nelson, Richard Hunt, or even Frank Oz, but with Steve Whitmire, considering the circumstances, it's just not the same...

[@jonwashburn7999]

You probably gave this more thought than the current i.p. holders.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Oh I’m sure of it

[@finalfroggitapproaches6418]

That “broken record” bit got a genuine belly laugh out of me both times. You’re very funny!

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I’ve had the joke written down for years and now I finally had an opportunity to use it, glad it was worth it

[@MuppetStuffBlog]

Excellent points. Many of us fans have been asking Disney for a Muppet show revival for years. I hope they start listening as I think that would be a great way to bring back the characters like you said.

[@benmalsky9834]

I think The Muppets Mayhem really is the best Muppets project we had in years, and I agree that while the series was a big step in the right direction, it should have been a weekly series rather than all at once.

[@redwhiteandvibranium120]

I agree, the fact that they are missing out on so much potential with a modern day Muppets Show is something I've thought about too. Especially when a lot of us arent very familiar with the celebrities in the original (outside of like Steve Martin and some others)... it would be so fun to see it brought back featuring peope we actually know.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Absolutely! It would be an extra layer of enjoyment

[@travischeramie]

I also believe that The Muppets (ABC) was starting to gain traction and honestly I think that form factor works well for them. I felt like if they would have leaned into “The Muppet Show” we could have had something like a muppet version of 30 Rock. An on screen and off screen comedy that could have continued to highlight special guests, provide variety and explore the implied reality of Muppets as real world celebrities. But, as we all know, Disney has no idea how to handle the muppets and due to their own missteps they no longer have the stomach for giving them a real property.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I really think Season 2 of that show could’ve been superb

[@Kenoqi]

I’ve always desperately wanted a reboot of The Muppet Show, I giggle at the idea of having modern day celebrities clash with Kermit

[@craftypacaderm2095]

I watched that miss piggy as the host show and definitely agreed. It was a rough start. And then my partner and I totally forgot that the electric mayhem show was happening because it got announced and we never heard about it again. Would love to see the Muppets getting a lovingly crafted return.

[@MichaelSar12IsBack]

If they're really so insistent about doing a new "Muppet Show", I think a show about the Muppets all living in a house together (a la "Muppets From Space") has potential. In addition to introducing some new characters, I think it's also a good idea to flesh out some of the "minor" characters. Also, I blame "Muppets Most Wanted" for the state that the franchise is in right now.

[@jalengee8421]

Why would you ever blame most wanted ?

[@MichaelSar12IsBack]

@@jalengee8421 Because it's an awful movie that bombed because it's an awful movie (and because it was up against "Divergent" or whatever that movie was called).

[@jalengee8421]

@@MichaelSar12IsBack except it’s the best and funniest muppet movie

[@MichaelSar12IsBack]

@@jalengee8421 You actually like that it turned the Muppets (except for Kermit, Animal and Walter) into hive-minded idiots who can't do anything right and exist to make Kermit's life harder?

[@Asukenick]

@@jalengee8421 Steve enjoyed working on that more than the 2011 movie.

[@soundwavehope]

I approach videos about the muppets with a lot of trepidation as many have a fundamental misunderstanding of them. However, this is such an excellent video, you have such great takes regarding the muppets. Really awesome job!!

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Thank you so much, I appreciate it. I’ve honestly been a little hesitant making the video because I know we fans can be very protective and I didn’t wanna get it wrong, but I’m glad I didn’t

[@crunch1757]

You could even have the auld guys (can't remember their names) pointing out that they're just doing what they did before. Like they have a built in way to pre-address that criticism.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

“I can’t believe they’re back doing this again!” “Well, if it works” “Yeah, just a shame that it doesn’t! OHOHOHOHO”

[@_Jackal_Gaming]

Wow. I had no idea Electric Mayhem was good and worth watching! Thank you for the recommendation!

[@bloom4360]

A lot of The Muppet Show’s magic, imo, comes from it being set in a theatre and constantly referencing theatre culture. Recurring acts testing new material, audience interaction (you can’t heckle in a TV studio!), and the lived-in warmth of the backstage all contribute to its charm. The main cast are archetypal representations of performers and crew members. Their relationships are built on that dynamic, so when you take them out of the theatre, they feel a bit lost. If you want to make the Muppets work in a new setting, you have to figure out how their quirks, talents, and passions translate to that setting in particular.

[@bobbieisnotcool]

i’m only half way through the video so i don’t know if you bring it up at all but i think one cool thing that happened with muppets fairly recently was them being at the kings coronation concert. back in may 2023 there was like a massive gig for king charles coronation and the kermit and miss piggy made a cameo there, similarly to paddington at the jubilee. i thought it was very cool and i can now say i’ve seen kermit and piggy !!

[@johnylitalo4163]

These studio & network executives, tycoons & moguls in Hollywood had taunted, abused and neglected everything, you all loved and cared about and tainted all of them. They're the REAL TV and Movie villains.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

It’s sad imo

[@johnylitalo4163]

@@Joe_Brennan_ What's the point of exposing them to the world of what they really are if you don't have any evidence as proof?

[@BMoney8600]

I’d love to see the Muppets come back.

[@benmalsky9834]

Many of the more obscure Muppets projects or even panned ones I have just as much fondness and nostalgia for as the ones everyone gives attention to.

[@VideoGamePhilosopher]

The interview with Seth Rogan in muppets now was really funny. I also really liked Bunson and Beaker making a science KZbin channel. Idea for a sequence of the new muppet show: tea with Kermit.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

There were a few really wonderful moments in Muppets Now, Pepe very often made me laugh. I just wish that magic had felt consistent.

[@VideoGamePhilosopher]

@@Joe_Brennan_ oh right! I forgot about the game show and the episode with the screaming goat. 🐐 that was funny.

[@updownstranger564]

just got randomly recced this channel. joe you have a fantastic sense of humor & timing. i can see the muppet influence for sure. LOL

[@Joe_Brennan_]

This is such a lovely compliment

[@SMJ-ix8qn]

I think the muppets on ABC was a near perfect way to be new while being a show itself Electric mayhem is SO underrated. I ended up talking about them in a final project for a music class I was taking

[@dannybright8708]

“IT’S MY IP TO SIT ON AND DO NOTHING WITH!!!”

[@MajoraWaffle]

i honestly just think disney need to sell them back to the jim henson company, or at least a production company that knows how to market these iconic characters and make shows for them on a reasonable budget. the ip isn't making them the billions that they clearly expect to make back from every piece of media they release and...well, the ip being owned by disney is just so counterintuitive to the muppets essence as is. the muppets were made as a satirical and cynical commentary on 70s and 80s culture and capitalism; that will never come back for as long as they are owned by a media empire like disney.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I feel like Disney would rather let them rot unused in the closet than risk allowing them to be an asset of a rival

[@MajoraWaffle]

@@Joe_Brennan_ i guess? but the brand means so little to them right now as is that i doubt they'd care for whatever would happen to it after the fact.

[@MichaelSar12IsBack]

After their participation in the blacklisting of Steve Whitmire and "The Happytime Murders", I do not trust Brian, Cheryl and Lisa with the Muppets.

[@jayo1212]

I think Disney should buy the remainder of the Jim Henson company and consolidate their Muppets subsidiary into it...

[@GramGramGenX-ln5sc]

I think after all this time, it's safe to say that what the Muppets were in the '70s and '80s is not coming back. Too much time has gone by... Like 40 years peeps. The generation that loved the Muppets and loved that program has got one foot in the grave. And I can say this because I am from the original Sesame Street generation and I'm 60 now. Disney sat on the franchise too long. The younger generations are into new things. And I think this is something we just have to move on from collectively. Remember a few years ago they tried to bring back the Three Stooges with new actors? The movie was really pretty good but the time had passed. I think we're at that point here with the Muppets. Keep the good memories, but let go of what Disney will not give you.

[@amybrennan7490]

Yipeeee Joe AND muppets on the same day!! What an excellent Sunday

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Oh yeah!

[@emduquemack7514]

Its honestly a good idea especially since they had that small youtube success era where they just had tiny sketches and music and they were very successful, that popcorn video and bihemian rhapsody did so well

[@basicallybet]

I’m still patiently waiting for Muppet Great Gatsby with Leonardo DiCaprio reprising his role as Gatsby.

[@ajzeg01]

I just want more Muppets Mayhem and another movie man

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I’d kill for another season of Mayhem, or even a series about other Muppets with the same style and tone

[@PixarPins]

Great video! Some of my thoughts: I have watched the latest Muppet Babies series with my son and it is very high quality. Just worth pointing out that it is another corner of the muppets that has been handled well. I assume it was shown outside of Disney+ originally? Muppet Mayhem shows that Adam F Goldberg might be a good fit going forward. I wonder if they had just committed to a similar format (in terms of ratio of humans to muppets, comedy to character driven story, sitcom structure etc) but with the full Muppets cast it would have been more successful. The format is just such a good fit for TV rather than streaming though! The Muppet Show was very much in line with variety/entertainment popular back in the day. This has massively declined and a lot of the popular light night shows are mainly known for condensed clips that are popular on social media. So I do appreciate that KZbin videos and muppets now have at least tried to translate the concept into a modern context. It would be great for a Mayhem esque show about the Muppets struggling to adapt the muppet show to this new context and make some comedy out of the problems they’ve had with the muppet ‘brand’.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I think it would be a real shame not have Adam F Goldberg back for another project, but I also think it feels likely that he won’t be

[@realfingertrouble]

And yes I LOVED the Muppets - yes like Discovery, too dark at the beginning, but it totally could have worked if again it had been given time.

[@reitonkyoju8]

It’s the Muppet Show, with our very special guest….JBOI!

[@Joe_Brennan_]

That’s the dream

[@djadj_]

excellent video and I wholeheartedly agree. also, your kermit is actually really good, easily one of the best i've heard.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

That’s very kind of you

[@r.o.b.xmarie7727]

I always been thinking this and this is the only KZbin video I’ve seen addressing the muppets today thank you

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Thank you for watching!

[@r.o.b.xmarie7727]

@@Joe_Brennan_ your the only person I’ve seen actually address the fact the muppets just arent doing anything anymore

[@bsabruzzo]

I think the Muppets should do a real talk show in the way Johnny Carson did his back in the day. Have Kermit be the interviewer and he can interview regular people, and then have the wacky shenanigans run by somebody else, another crew, so you introduce new Muppets. You'll have the interviews you'll have a sketch with the star and you'll have sketches with the other Muppets very much the way the old Muppet show was but in a new light. In fact dropping the fake documentary style that they tried and doing it as a straightforward talk show brings it back to the Muppet show but you chose them in where their strength is.

[@ttintagel]

21:15 You've hit on something important there with "If he's written well enough." One of the essential conflicts between Steve Whitmire and the new management was that they saw the performers as nothing more than actors reading lines from a script, whereas the OG performers were used to much more of an improv style, and having more input into creating and developing the characters. Frank Oz has mentioned the same thing. Gonzo being attracted to chickens, for example, all stemmed from one throwaway line Dave Goelz ad libbed when a real chicken walked away from him in a Season 2 episode. I'm not 100% certain they can completely get the magic back if there's going to be a rigid division between writers and performers.

[@DoctorWhoHome1]

Bring them back.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I agree!

[@mkozlinski]

Muppet Show is very close to something that in Poland is called "tv cabaret" - mixture of tv, literary cabaret and theatre with its own reality: zany, bit chaotic, sometime anarchic...often in tacky, retro decorations, mostly based on very thin plot but always with great performers, great dialogs, great songs. This is something you can't do with "content creators" in Excell. Jim Henson imagination is gone, original puppeteers are gon or retired... I was raised on Muppet Show - in early 80s in bleak times of disintegrating socialism in Poland it was one of the few really funny shows on tv. I can't see place for Muppets now. Disney don't understand them. Original Muppets were very very human. They were like bunch of outcasts trying to do a show. The were family. They were mean to each other and they were supportive, there was some kind of warm. You could feel Gonzo's weirdness and melancholy, bitternes of Floyd or Kermit's struggle to run the show without nerveous breakdown. Something has been lost.

[@benmalsky9834]

I think it’s about time for a new Muppets theatrical movie again. With Disney aiming to focus on quality theatrical releases again with sequels to Moana and Zootopia coming and the return of Tron and Star Wars on the big screen, a new Muppets movie would fit comfortably right in

[@Poyostar]

I love The Muppets, and I would absolutely love to see a true revival of The Muppet Show in some form or another. Seriously, these guys deserve to be utilized more in the modern era, given how much of a legacy they have under their belt and whatnot. Maybe someday...

[@Joe_Brennan_]

The plus side of the fact they’ve all but disappeared is that we’re due another expensive revival from a successful fan any time now

[@benmalsky9834]

I’m really sad that the 2015 series didn’t last more than one season. Had it continued with the new show runner it could have really flourished.

[@ForrestFox626]

Bet you if Muppet Mayhem was on ABC, we'd be getting a second season

[@theLINK7778]

I enjoyed the Muppets Haunted mansion, and LOVED the Muppets Mayham. I really hoping we get a season 2 and more "park ride parodies" like Muppets Jungle Cruise, never gonna happen... but I want more Muppets!

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Muppets Tower of Terror would be a real delight, I’ve always thought they should retheme the rock n rollercoaster around the Electric Mayhem. Again, that’s something that’ll never happen but I’d love.

[@Ross_YT84]

Something about the way you said " love you lots" just hit different. not in a weird way but in a wholesome way.

[@MrMadshepherd]

I don’t know why Disney don’t see what everyone else sees. The Muppets are wonderful and they shine brightest when they’re putting on a show. All they need to do is do another show like the original or Muppets Tonight. Not reboot either show but just make another one. I feel like that’s what Muppets Now was supposed to emulate but it was just too low effort. Didn’t bother doing anything but try to chase trends. The Muppets was on the right track but as you say it was too little to late after it’s miserable and awkward start. They need to do a proper variety show ran by Kermit I’d also like to see more films in the vein of Christmas Carol and Treasure Island adapting classic literature. Pride and Prejudice or something.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Pride and Prejudice is the one I often see suggested and it’s a great idea. I do feel that this kind of adaptation is better when the Muppets actually feel like they’re FROM something as themselves. If they’re just half-remembered presences from Christmas Carol to most of the audience, the character work has less potential

[@MrMadshepherd]

@@Joe_Brennan_ it definitely requires them to be established to the audience. Christmas Carol worked well enough as they were still fresh in the mind, not at their peak but popular and actively being used. And they were known for The Muppet show and Muppets Tonight. Knowing who the characters of the Muppets are is vital to the heart and humour of them and the parts they ended up playing in these adaptations. The casting of a certain Muppet as a certain character works so well because they’re either such a similar parallel or such a huge contrast respectively.

[@karsonbollinger8412]

The muppets mayhem getting canceled after winning an Emmy is still crazy to me

[@airconditionedstudios1011]

If I where to do anything corporate related I'd become the CEO of disney, re-open blu sky & put everyone from the actual disney animation studio there, make every company they've ever acquired independent (except marvel) & give them their IP back, give pixar planes, put all disney propeties in the public domain, & shut disney down taking marvel studios with it & giving the people that work there job opportunities in the studios made independent but all of that is if I get lucky enough to do that

[@ttintagel]

I'm still holding out home for some version of the Great Muppet Movie Ride at WDW.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Electric Mayhem Rock N Rollercoaster has always been my dream

[@oneframesam]

17:03 I feel sorry for this mysterious, hypothetical person

[@garethridings5338]

I do hope Disney comes out with a new Muppets show bringing back Jim Hennsons legacy.

[@natertot736]

Ive said it before and ill say it again, id love to see a muppet show about the muppets running their own streaming service. You could get plenty of the back stage comedy with interstial bits from the "shows" theyre producing or shows being pitched

[@JoeyBeansLI]

Yes. Bring back the muppet show for the modern day! Awesome video!

[@DVR01]

Exactly. I hope the Muppet Show will be filmed live and livestreamed from the El Capitan Theatre when the show will be back in business permanently for far more than 5 years each with guest stars especially during each holiday including Christmas. #ReviveTheMuppetShowForever

[@Mulchmite128]

20:30 brilliant

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Just a glimpse at what I could do as a full time Muppeteer

[@TheGerkuman]

As much as I'd love to see another Muppet Adaptational Film, I think that script for Muppet Great Gatsby shows why it can't be the only thing that the Muppets are known for. (not that the script is bad, but because that's one of the key messages of it). I'm glad to see Muppets Tonight get some love. I remember watching it when it came out and loving it. I even don't have an issue with Clifford hosting (though he looks better with the sunglasses). I think that Muppets From Space is a good case study on what happened to the franchise, because it was pitched as one thing (Muppets In Space) but then they had a different more quirky idea that didn't quite work, and so people didn't love it as much. Or the two recent films really being half of an amazing Muppet film (The Muppets isn't zany enough and lacks ideas and Muppets Most Wanted isn't heartfelt enough)

[@Joe_Brennan_]

It’s a shame they didn’t make a third new Muppet film that was a whole good movie

[@AdamTheUltimateWhovian]

Yay! The Muppet Mayhem was such a solid show! Great video! I hope that for the Muppets that something better comes along, like the Daniel Craig Muppet Show special!

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Would be fantastic

[@AdamTheUltimateWhovian]

@@Joe_Brennan_ definitely wanting a new Muppets musical because across their films were some sensational songs!

[@donnakelly653]

Thank you for this video! I've been on a BIG Muppets binge lately. Always been a fan but have recently been going thru the old episodes of The Muppet Show and all the old movies - what a joy. The Muppets are iconic and I hope the Jim Henson docco coming out soon brings them back into the zeitgeist - it's time. A revival of The Muppets Show would go off 🙌 I honestly was not at all interested in the Electric Mayhem series solely on Lily Singh being in it 😂 But now based on your recommendation, I'll give it a watch!

[@ArtFlunky]

Love your heart on this. A Muppet Show revival would be awesome. Here’s how to switch it up: Produce it almost like SNL style: Not live, but a one to two week production cycle. So if Taylor Swift is on the show, it’s what she did last week, not some vague time in the past. Current, but never topical. That would capitalize on the immediacy of puppet performance.

[@dillonohlemiller401]

Steve Whitmire should have never been fired. Also, I’ve been saying bring back The Muppet Show since the live show at the Hollywood Bowl. And Disney refuses to do it. The franchise could be great again. But I’m not holding my breath.

[@Asukenick]

It's a good idea but I'm not big on today's celebrities. Nothing beats the 20th century.

[@Bloby_tnt]

To the final part where you mentioned modern celebs. The Jack black muppets scene was the best scene in the movie and he needs an actual full muppets host episode

[@nickl2854]

Golly I wish they kept going with muppets most wanted type stuff. It was so much closer to what these characters are than the schmaltzy Jason Segel mess.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I didn’t have time to rewatch Most Wanted ahead of this but I’m definitely keen to

[@jamescarroll7349]

I'm glad to see this addressed in a heartfelt way rather than with the disdain that many other KZbinrs have. I also feel like you've gone a little far with some conclusions. I grew up with Jim Henson's Muppets, The 1979 film being the first film that I remember seeing theatrically at the age of 5. I still carry some ill feelings about the Swedish Chef after he bungled his job as a projectionist. 😆 As I see it, the Muppets have 4 problems: 1. The performers and writers haven't always worked in tandem like they should. This has greatly improved with projects like Haunted Mansion and Mayhem being the best examples. There have been some quality creatives and sweet celebrities with good intentions who have had the opportunity to tinker with the Muppets while Bill Barretta, Matt Vogel, and Kirk Thatcher have been working hard in the trenches for decades. 2. Many fans won't let the Muppets grow and are too harsh when they make mistakes. Muppets now wasn't conceived as a show. It was Disney giving the veteran writers and performers the opportunity to play and improv and not worry too much about the financial cost or the franchise's reputation. These were going to be like the Forky shorts on Disney Plus. Those segments are hit-or-miss and so were these. Sewing them together as a show was an idea inspired by lockdown. Some fans only be satisfied having the characters simply retrace old steps. Jim didn't like repeating himself and that would have fallen flat. Few fans have perspective on the Muppets, and you touch on that, incorrectly believing that all of Jim Henson's (or the Henson Company’s) work with the Muppets was well received. They began floundering with Little Muppet Monsters and the Henson Hour. 3. Bob Iger expressed a quote in his autobiography that a colleague shared with him. - "Avoid getting into the business of manufacturing trombone oil. you may become the greatest trombone-oil manufacturer in the world, but in the end, the world only consumes a few quarts of trombone oil a year!” - This seems to reveal Iger's lack of consistency and care with relatively smaller brands under the Disney banner, like the Muppets. It's shortsighted because all Disney fans have their favorite niche and nostalgic properties and care for those brands as a whole should be a priority. En masse, they are as important as Pixar or Star Wars. Iger has a history of undercutting any momentum the Muppets have gained during his tenure. Canceling the critically acclaimed and Emmy winning Muppets Mayhem is a current example. 4. Like DC's Snyder fans, some of the Muppet fans still carrying ill will toward Disney, The Muppets, and Matt Vogel (that has been uniquely cruel) since Whitmire's contract wasn't renewed need to let it go and move forward. It's simply not going to change. It was a big adjustment to Whitmire in the 90's like it has been for Vogel the past few years. Whitmire never got Kermit completely right, but I looked to the things in his performance that were fun, heartfelt, and close enough. I honor his work and performances. I don't like how ugly this situation became in public, no matter what happened behind the scenes. Also, Whitmire's contracts with Fraggle Rock under Henson and Ernie under Sesame weren't renewed either. Jim Henson's family agreed with Disney's decision and helped choose Matt Vogel. That seems to either be unknown to many fans or has gotten lost under the bad feelings about the situation. Right now, as a fan, I believe that the right thing to do is show our enthusiasm for the things that went right with Haunted Mansion and Mayhem instead of the usual Disney disdain. They've struck a chord with audiences twice in a row. We should be encouraging the company to keep moving forward, grow what they're doing now, and see where it goes. Like you said here, that's how they did it all those years ago on the Muppet Show. Thanks for raising an interesting and reasoned discussion. 🌈 🐸 🪕

[@noahmitchell7903]

THIS VIDEO. I have had the EXACT same thoughts, but lacked the time, energy, platform, and audience to get this point across. The Muppets work best within the Muppet Show context (and subsequently building other projects off of that). I won’t rehash a lot of your points, but I’ve thought for YEARS that having stars interacting with the Muppets like Tom Holland (maybe as Spider-Man), Drake, or even athletes like Gabby Douglas (what a strange list) would make for GREAT episodes of the new show. I first discovered the Muppet Show after the 2011 movie (even though I knew of them before that) and it’s an indescribable feeling to know that what they were trying to revive in the movie was ACTUALLY something that happened irl (and not me watching the series before the movie). And on top of that, the Muppets have always been like kids SNL (similar to All That or the original Animaniacs), they should be out there making tasteful jabs and lighthearted fun of the world we’re in today and the people who are in it. I’d love for it to take on the model of playing on tv first and going on streaming the next day (much like a Rick and Morty Adult Swim style) and you could air it on Disney Channel or ABC or wherever BEFORE dropping it on Disney+. Also, having it be clip-able so that you can advertise funny clips or short sketches on TikTok and KZbin Shorts would be a MUST! If they could include a SMALL bit of modern meme humor, fast-paced, random, a bit absurdist then I’m POSITIVE it would go viral (much like Back at the Barnyard, which was originally hated, but gained cultural following due to memes). Anyway, this is getting long (and I haven’t even mentioned the potential for Marvel, Star Wars again, Dune, Game of Thrones, etc. episodes) but thanks for finally making the video I’ve been looking for for years!

[@theojenner1902]

With talk shows dying and puppeteers funnier then comedians now, just bring back the muppet show or have them interview celeb guests

[@Joe_Brennan_]

My thoughts exactly

[@SubsonicSparkle]

I always felt like The Muppets 2015 got a raw deal. It was really on to something with it’s more character-driven approach. Episodes like Gonzo losing his confidence or Piggy realising Uncle Deadly was her closest friend; it was a different take on the cast but still authentic and engaging. Yet it also made time for celebrity spots and great performances! The format was definitely generic as hell, but it rose above it by the end and proved itself as a good show. God knows how genuinely great it could’ve become if ABC hadn’t given up on it so hastily. I think the enduring charm and value of the Muppets is clear as day on social media. Kermit is right up there with Spongebob and Simpsons for most legendary reaction GIFs and memes. The fans understand what makes these characters great; it’s only Disney that seems to have no clue.

[@nairrdlairrd]

I had a lot of fun with Muppets Mayhem, but I actually thought it focused too much on the boring human POV characters

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I felt the balance was pretty good actually, but i understand the desire for more Mayhem

[@Ar_cadez]

i agree but i feel like that's more because they didn't make me care enough about Nora and Moog. idk what it is, i enjoy human characters in other Muppet media. Its not even just a Disney thing because i liked Gary in the 2011 movie. shrug i suppose.

[@werewolflover8636]

Michael Eisner greatly respected and loved The Muppets! You can thank him for Muppets 3D show at Disney World, he green lit several films, and I still remember him doing promotional materials with the muppets! You never see anything like this from the current management.

[@KrazyJoe1701]

As a Star Wars fan, I'm so thankful for Disney. Disney and Kathleen Kennedy have made more good High Quality Star Wars than George Lucas ever did.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I think there’s been a fairly decent decline in overall output since the move to streaming in 2019 though

[@GoofyGeeks]

Could you imagine a new muppet show where the special guest is like Trixie Mattel or Ryan Gosling? Like hilarious!

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Gosling is a must

[@DVR01]

I hope the Muppet Show will be filmed live and livestreamed from the El Capitan Theatre when the show will be back in business permanently for far more than 5 years each with guest stars especially during each holiday including Christmas. #ReviveTheMuppetShowForever

[@amybrennan7490]

I am to watch this while eating dinner (I’m not even joking)

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I hope you like it

[@ttintagel]

Some days, I feel like the hardest part of being a Star Wars fan is... other Star Wars fans.

[@oosthakker]

They dont have the quality they used to have anymore if you have the right team and puppeteers you could make them work in any setting but disney doesnt seem to want to recreate the muppets in there original style so nothing works. They fired all the good puppeteers or pissed them off. now the personalitys are gone and just some soulless puppets are left. maybe disney just wanted to destroy the muppets so they had less competition in the entertainment area.

[@Funcrocodileog]

I wish they would bring back the Muppets app, because I miss it

[@azaanyasir2811]

good video! I definitely agree people just overthink "how to make X relevant" when you just need to make something good most the time. Do you think there's an elaborate story for Iger's muppet hatred?

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I’d love there to be some tragic muppet themed backstory but I think he just reduces them to the bottom line and doesn’t see enough dollar signs

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

If you ever saw the short-lived TV show Reboot, (It's on Disney+.) they should do that but with The Muppets. And longer than a single award-nominated series that's only 8 episodes.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I hadn’t even heard of Reboot, what kind of thing do they do that should happen to Muppets?

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

@@Joe_Brennan_ It's a show about failing TV stars in a reboot of their old sitcom on Hulu. The producers are torn between having it be an old happy show and it being a more true-to-life reboot. It's very good. Got cancelled right after its second nomination. I recommend it.

[@unicornclutter]

for me the appeal of the muppets was always the puppeteers having fun putting on a puppet show, making characters, making sketches, doing something silly, exactly like how a lot of uk sketch shows did well such a little britain or league of gentlemen. Both the muppets specifically and puppets in general I think need to just have outlets to let the people behind them have *fun* and its hard when there's pressure for things to be an overnight sensation and not have the time needed to build a real relatiobship to their audience. I'd love to see a new muppet show or a puppet sketch show or maybe a more fast paced version of the old jim henson's Storyteller series since while that was sensational visually and a wonderful idea they kind of treated it too much like a documentary and it made it literally sleep inducing. I would love to see maybe them partnering with people who have a background in these kinds of genres to put on some interesting shows