How to Sing Lower 3: Overtone Control Subharmonics

Hey guys here is the 3rd episode of my series! This one is a bit more advanced, so it'll take a little bit of practice to get this concept down. I'm working on some pretty cool videos for the future in this series, hope you enjoy them!
Take care ✌
Facebook: David Lee Larson
Instagram : DavidLeeLarson

[@grant0000]

I’m here after Geoff Castellucci showed me this existed

[@RoniGlaser]

These video are really interesting David, I'm a composer rather than a singer, but it's still interesting to learn about the physiology and the rest of it, plus it's cool to be able to sing really low. Thanks for posting!

[@randyjsing]

I'm still experimenting with this--keep posting vids...I'm learning quite a bit!

[@dannmitton]

Hey David! Some interesting work here. I think you would really enjoy learning more about the International Phonetic Alphabet and lyric diction for singing? I think this will help you to get more specific about the vowels you're targeting? For example the ([y] in IPA) that you think you're singing around [7:38] would really be something closer to in German, or a centralized [œ] in IPA. I watched a couple of your vids and find your exploration fascinating. My own voice sings down to Bb1 in 'chest' or 'modal' or 'M1' or whatever you want to call it, so the idea of delivering these notes as resultants or undertones or subharmonics is interesting to me. I hear you coming from a strong choral context and I'm not sure how your explorations map onto solo singing technique? Thanks very much for posting, it's good to see what other curious singers are up to!

[@drfelixgraham]

...the internet is such a small place, sometimes...

[@lukakvavilashvili]

You're awesome, you sing overtone notes which is pretty impressive and I have never heard of subharmonics which adds a lot of opportunities. I can get to C2 with no problems, some days I hit B1 but some days I cant, but it gets more frequent, I went from hitting b1 once a week to hitting it almost every day. With vocal fry I get to D1 or E1, I go lower but can't tell since it's really messy there. But singing in subharmonic range sounds really clean and natural. How low do you think I'll be able to get with this technique?

[@davidlarson3905]

Thank you very much! on most days, I can get E1 with this technique, but I have gone down to C1 with it before. It doesn't really have that much resonance below F1 right now though. I use a different technique for recording anything below F1 though: Ingressive Phonation ^_^

[@lukakvavilashvili]

Wow there's so many techniques to learn. Our voice is amazing XD

[@mackabu3958]

This is incredible

[@justnormalpeoplethings590]

Okay I literally fucking love you dude, you need like a million billion more subs cause you fucking deserve it. You’ve helped me more than the thousands of videos I’ve watched on low note stuff thank you so much😊

[@MrCash-lm1xz]

You mean a quadrillion.

[@alexanderwilson8297]

Brilliant addition to the series! I've been thinking bout this a lot lately, the interactions with overtones and jaw/tongue placement all that.

[@alexanderwilson8297]

Oh btw I highly recommend checking into rhotics in regards to this This pdf has a lot of good info on it: webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ch1UwSjchJQJ:www.icphs2007.de/conference/Papers/1172/1172.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-a The wiki page may be a better start though. There's a lot of related links including alternative ways to pronounce certain constanents. Also apparently shifting the jaw forward can allow for better voice connection for techniques that require some constriction. Also this is a good one too, www.uta.edu/faculty/jerry/yi-bai-kab-akan.pdf. Sorry not to bombard ya haha.

[@davidlarson3905]

+Alexander Wilson Wow that is some fantastic information! Glad you're enjoying these tutorials! Do you study music/voice at a University, or do you just do this privately on your own? I don't know many people that know what "rhotics" deals with haha ^_^

[@davidlarson3905]

+Alexander Wilson And also, I've been meaning to talk about "dropping the jaw" in my videos, but I always forget because it's something that I learned a LONG time ago for chest voice, way before I heard of subharmonics. It's just a second nature thing for me, and it works very well!

[@alexanderwilson8297]

Thanks ^.^. I'm no expert, only private study. Albeit fairly extensively, as I do search into whatever related fields topics etc I can. You probably know by now if not before, but rhotics are R like sounds, and likewise they has many relations and parallels to L like sounds. Liquid consonants might be proper term then? Tbh I only stumbled upon these particular concepts recently, but there's a strong relation to overtones and formants. Also some rhotics utilize the suppossedly "other vocal system". Many aspects/requirements for various subharmonic techniques utilize the lower "LPVT" track, with some degree of constriction. "Valve Function V1 Glottal vocal fold ad/abduction V2 Incursion of ventricular folds onto V1 V3 Laryngeal constriction, AE compression V4 Epiglotto-pharyngeal constriction V5 Laryngeal raising & lowering V6 Pharyngeal narrowing" "It should be noted that although engagement of V4 and V6 entails the action of V3, or laryngeal constriction in the general sense, the AE folds are not necessarily engaged to the extent of producing a trill" Those quotes are both from the first Ref above. Can't find the direct reference but further more with the jaw thing, probably along the same extent is that the secondary placement can compensate for some constriction, which theoretically a lot of subharmonics techniques can benefit from by lending more "openness".

[@alexanderwilson8297]

Oh look up that AE trill when you can! Its used in death metal a lot, but can be done unvoiced. I believe one ref I read said combining the trill in a more mellow "fry" type way, at 7.5 hertz or so with a 99hertz voiced (G2 I believe?) creates a subharmonic via double perioding. I used to do death metal growls using both false folds, fry, and AE trills, so I feel as if I have a rough feel for what mechanism Im using, and having produced an SH in such a way. I believe multiple subharmonics can be use in combination, esp with that dual tract jaw connection, so I think doors are opening to a LOT of different unexplored musical potential! Both in polyharmonics, and range extension, and more of course. With the right "chords" or use of overtones/subharmonics and related products, I think it may be psychoacoustically possible to make sounds normally inaudibly low audible, and perhaps even with a steady non pulsed (fry or connected.) or at least for the connected pulse to be supplemented into a steady soudning strong fundamental while the overtones carry semblance of lack of temporal gap. Part of that hypothesis is based on the concept of missing fundamental: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_fundamental Ex. Phones can't (or this may be reffed from the past) actually transmit the average males fundamental speaking voice, but the timbre and overtones fill in for the listener, and the brain perceives the fundamental based on the overtones.

[@tervaaku]

I can get a tone but have difficulties moving, and reducing poppiness, what can I do to help this

[@bengerberich2982]

Practice, i have the same thing. It can vary, but it takes about 5-6 months to get this down well

[@eflyapping5154]

The |i| that you hear is a "yod" (|j|). It belongs in a category of sounds we call "semivowels", because they work as consonants, but they actually sound as vowels. Also, it's a "palatal" sound, meaning we produce it with the front of the tongue against the hard palate; just like |i|. So there's nothing strange about the presence of a |i|-sounding segment there.

[@davidlarson3905]

EFLYapping Thank you for the well educated comment, I really appreciate it!

[@eflyapping5154]

You're welcome. Great video, by the way.

[@PyricDemon]

i do vibration bass, close to throat singing a lot so i can practice a lot longer than 30 minutes a day

[@NicValSinger]

I have for certain moments used this technique, but since I am a bass oktavist naturally to begin with it puts me at a sub Contra double A, last key on the oiano, which is too low to be used in most situations

[@DillonHartwigPersonalChannel]

Nic, I, a fellow oktavist, have a question for you: how can you maintain your volume as you sing lower? I can reach a B0 (second to last piano note), but it is usually too quiet to easily hear. Do you have any tips?

[@NicValSinger]

+Dillon Hartwig when you rehearse daily you will discover proper placement and resonance you should be able to hum a note and because the depth of it your eyes will vibrate like crazy and you will also intrinsically strengthen the intercostal muscles if you do this at least 6 days a week it'll take a couple of years but it will never leave you for the rest of your life just remember it's not a force it's a balance between the two breathe down like an accordion use the muscles in the diaphragm and on the right and left side at the bottom of the rib cage and push up from below the belly button and your power will be there just give it a little time but don't neglect at least your mid-range approach it with the technique and religious fervor of a bodybuilder

[@DillonHartwigPersonalChannel]

***** thanks for the advice :D

[@bienfranckogarperio4007]

Why does your subharmonic register sound fine mine sounds rough

[@JayTie1]

because he has been practicing for over a decade

[@LosAnggraito]

hey man, first off - you're amazing! I've been practicing and seeing vast improvements. My question is: my "comfortable" chest voice stops at an E2. Now, using your technique, I'm singing more and more in my subharmonic register, but does that mean there will always be a disconnect from that register (Bb1) to my natural stop (E2)? Because I can't use your technique to sing an Eb2-B1. Any suggestions to connect those missing notes? (sorry if this question is confusing)

[@davidlarson3905]

Hey Donni! I know we've talked on Facebook but I never saw this question on here until now so I figured I should answer it! I will be posting a video hopefully on Saturday or Sunday talking about what you are curious about! A loy of people have trouble with the higher notes. The top part of the register is the hardest, definitely. I can slide from about G#2 to an E1 in my subharmonic register now, but I definitely had to work to get notes above Bb1. There is a slight shift in placement when I go higher than Bb1, but the feeling of the register is not too much different. Like I said, I'll talk it about better in the next video! Thanks man! ^_^

[@LosAnggraito]

Aw thanks, looking forward to it!

[@taylorstocks6371]

I'm managing to relax my voice to the point where the vocal fry comes in and I can control it pretty well, I'm sitting at the minute at a D2 chest voice and with the vocal fry / subharmonic it goes down to a Bb1 Am I doing this right? I just played your Volga Boatmen and mine sounded similar to yours (I mimicked it). I don't know if this is just vocal fry or Subharmonic. Anyway, you've come so far, I mean 100 subscribers and over 2000 views on some videos!! Keep it up man :D

[@davidlarson3905]

Thank you so much! If you could upload a video of your attempt at this technique, that would really help a lot in figuring out if your getting into the register right. It's got a very distinct sounds quality to it!

[@Billyleenyan]

as kargyra is produce with the vestibular folds and subharmonics are just the vocal folds, have you ever tried to combine them?

[@danielconde4419]

In my opinion ia phisically impossible haha, but I would he absolutely amazed if someone managed to nail that

[@comicsans7437]

@@danielconde4419 For me it feels like kargyraa and subharmonic singing are the same. Kargyraa just focuses more on playing with overtones, but I find my throat being in the same position doing either one.

[@AFreshmanPerspective]

I have a question about bridging here. Let's say I'm starting at a c3 in chest and my chest voice ends at d2. I want to sweep down the whole octave from full chest voice down into a c2 in subharmonic register. Is this possible? Or do I have to stop at d2 and move my chest voice back up to c3 to get that octave subharmonic? I guess what I'm asking is if you connect this seamlessly like you can when connecting chest and head voice? Thank you.

[@davidlarson3905]

Very good question! And the answer is kind of a yes to both of your assumptions. Myself, and some others, have practiced this enough so that we can do a descending scale from like... a G2 to a G1, switching anywhere from E2 to C2. It sounds seamless! However, you have to work at this quite a bit to get it down. Since the fundamental is one octave above your subharmonic, your larynx will be in the position it would be if you were just singing the fundamental by itself. So, if you are going from a chest voice E2 to a subharmonic D2, your larynx has to actually make a minor 7th "jump" up to the D3 fundamental position. So yes! It is absolutely possible to make a seamless transition on scales and descending passages - however you've got to practice it quite a bit to get a smooth transition. Hope this helps!

[@AFreshmanPerspective]

+David Larson thank you very much!

[@asreangaming8154]

hey man! first off of any lessons on this you by far you have the best videos on it, so good job!. But im having a problem when I'm using what I conceive the sub-harmonic feeling to be I'm not getting a good tonal output is sounds a lot like a vocal fry ,which its not, you can still distinguish the tones but there not full and are very "poppy" so what could i do or anyone who is having the problem as myself do to better the tone produced?

[@davidlarson3905]

Thank you very much, I appreciate your kind words! Well honestly it's hard to say without hearing exactly what you sound like. One thing that you could be doing is mixing in vocal fry with the subharmonics. This happens to me on lower subharmonics notes, but it also happens to the higher tones when my voice gets tired. Sometimes, to get certain notes in the subharmonic register, you do have to "push" a little bit. You want it to be a fairly relaxed register to sing in, especially when you are first starting out. But I've learned that by pushing and tightening muscles just a little bit, you can add a lot more volume and depth to the sound in certain occasions. I would suggest playing with different extremes of vowels and placement of sound, try to find a spot and shape that resonates best for you. Also, identify what your natural vocal fry feels and sounds like, so you know if your attempt at subharmonics is purely subharmonics off of modal voice, not a mix with fry. Also, (this is one is a bit tougher and harder to describe) play with the amount of airflow being constricted in your throat. This is really a good way to identify the difference between the feeling for vocal fry and the feeling for subharmonics.

[@asreangaming8154]

Awesome. Thank you for getting back so fast and I along with anyone else ho sees this will work on that.Thanks for the advice, and keep making your videos because they're great!

[@davidlarson3905]

+Asrean gaming The fast responses are mainly due to the fact that I'm awake about 19 hours every day lol. Thanks, hopefully I'll have another video up very soon! Keep practicing, take care man!

[@domenickriggio684]

@@davidlarson3905 yeah this was me finding you stuff 6 years ago! soooo cool to see where its gone!

[@Zappers42]

Before subharmonic range, your tone is super dark which is what's causing those minor 7th over tones. If you brighten your tone, especially in a choir, you can use proper diction technique without the nasty over times. In the subharmonic range it can possibly work the same way but that's still a new concept to me.

[@ikaikakahananui6609]

I’m a tenor with a pretty wide range, d2-c5 chest voice, am I still able to sing subharmonically? After trying to hit a subharmonic note I still hear the original tone instead of a harmonic. And it fries my voice. Anybody know what I’m doing wrong still?

[@pinesyeet]

What do you mean by frying your voice? Making it raspy or actually hurting? Cause if it actually hurts, you're doing something wrong I think

[@ikaikakahananui6609]

@@pinesyeet yes I am singing it incorrectly. I can do a vocal fry

[@pinesyeet]

@@ikaikakahananui6609 If you dip into fry directly from a note I'd recommend you keep focusing on holding a tone and very slowly relaxing towards a fry. For me atleast, the subharmonic lies in a tiny tiny gap between tone and fry. Worth noting a few things: The subharmonic will probably sound like a more tone'y fry at first, with the original tone very clearly in it kind of like you describe. I'd focus on being able to hold the subharmonic first, then when that gets easier, try to increase the support of the subharmonic little by little. If you listen closely to when David does his subharmonics especially when he does them in very acoustic places, you can hear the original note on top even when he goes to 2nd subharmonic, so I think you're on the right track. Keep in mind that this is a super hard technique to master since it requires such a delicate balance to maintain. I've only done this for a week or so now, so I'm no expert on this at all, but I've managed to hit 2nd subharmonic, so I decided to share my own experiences. Hope it helps :)

[@nicholasevans5665]

David, I have been practicing your techniques and I've been doing them for a few days now and I'm going along fairly well, but I'm not completely sure if I'm doing it right. so if you see this is there any way that I could send a recording to you on facebook or something so you could give me some sort of idea if I'm doing this right?

[@davidlarson3905]

Yeah definitely! Send me a message on Facebook messenger!

[@nicholasevans5665]

+David Larson I tried looking and I couldn't find your profile.

[@leojoey6606]

+nicholas evans David Lee Larson, in description. or just go to Facebook and then /david.l.larson afterward.

[@vorpalmaze]

I've been practicing for over a week now and I've been progressing well. Because of my accent, I passed this tutorial lol. I have a question though. My subharmonics sound "squeezed" when I hit notes from A1 up. Is it because A1 to about D2 is my lower chest voice range or am I doing something wrong? I wanted my unresonant lower chest notes to become resonant upper Subharmonic notes, but it sounds like a broken film. A flat to about F# I feel okay with the sound. But higher than A flat is sucks. Halp lol

[@vorpalmaze]

Or is that you can only apply SH to notes you can't reach? Like, your lowest chest note can't have SH application when you sing in your chest an octave higher than it then go to fry?

[@davidlarson3905]

+Kevin Straws Very good question! It's basically exactly what my next video is on hahah. I wanted to throw in a more advanced video here for those that are watching that are possibly a bit farther ahead on this learning process, just so they don't get bored. So what you're having trouble with is definitely something I had problems with, but it's able to be overcome, I promise haha. I have 3 sections of my SH range, (I'll talk about this better in the video) - high, mid, and low. High is like F#2-C2. Mid is B1-Ab1. Low is G1-E1. Each part of the range has its own head/throat shape and feeling. The highest part of the range is the toughest to make sound resonant. When I go for my higher range, something that works for me is actually tilting my head up a bit, and closing my throat off a bit too. I think eventually I will be able to have an open throat and same head position as the other parts of my register, but this is what I've had to do to build strength in this part of my register. When I practice this range, I start with a closed sound/throat, then try to tilt my head down toward normal position as I'm singing, and also try to open my throat a bit. What happened to me often when I tried this, was the note would crack a lot and jump and lose control.. but after practicing it a bit, the muscle control gets a lot better. Im actually able to use the higher range more comfortably, although I still have to tilt my head up a little bit to get good control over the note. D2-C2 are pretty much automatic for me now, but higher than that is still a little bit iffy at times.

[@davidlarson3905]

+Kevin Straws Also, I'm almost positive that the SH has no limit going up. As long as you can sing a pitch, you can slide into the subharmonic register. That being said, it does bottom out. Kind of. It's weird.. I can sing chest voice lower than an E2, but below Eb1, my SH register changes to almost a "fry" quality. This is what I've noticed about most people that do this. It mixes with fry past the "bottom limit".

[@alexanderwilson8297]

+David Larson Yeah sort of like a heavy fry with stronger pulses, and consistency of clicks. Might be inevitable to some degree the frequency is the pop almost. I've hit a g0. with mixed techniques that was fairly solid. But my pitch analyzer may be wrong. It doesnt do chords. And I get semi random readings of G1 from it and G0 depending on playing around the selected range fo the note.So I presume that used two SH techniques stacked, but I aint sure. haha

[@davidsoto4169]

+David Larson How do you get such a deep, rich sound? I'm finding that I can slip into my subharmonic range, but don't get that "whole" sound that you do.

[@davidlarson3905]

I'm definitely going to have to make an entire new video on "sound quality" soon - many have been asking about it ^_^

[@davidsoto4169]

+David Larson Thanks!!!!!!

[@artman40]

I have a problem. When I sing subharmonics, it sometimes slips into second subharmonic. It sounds much nicer but it's harder to control. How to control the transition between different subharmonic series?

[@elijahfiest6288]

i have a similar chest register to you but my subharmonics lock in around a G2 and lower instead of the B flat 2, is that strange or simply just how my voice works?

[@davidlarson3905]

Everyone's voice has different ranges for their registers, so I'm not super surprised. I can hit a G2 in subharmonics, but G2 is fairly high for this register! I'm curious, how low are you able to go with your subharmonic register right now?

[@elijahfiest6288]

+David Larson i wasnt very clear, i meant i cant get the subharmonics to come in well until im doing octave drops from G2 and down the scale, sorry. but my lowest subharmonic note is an A0, as low as the piano lets me go lol

[@davidlarson3905]

Ahhh okay.... so are you saying you're having trouble going higher than G1/G2 with subharmonics?

[@elijahfiest6288]

Exactly

[@davidlarson3905]

+Elijah Fiest Well, you can definitely sing higher, but it might be difficult at first. Check out my video addressing this, it's called "How to sing Subharmonic High notes" I believe!

[@pinesyeet]

If there are any tips and tricks to getting a cleaner subharmonic sound except from just practicing for years, could you maybe dedicate a video to it? I can hit 1st subharmonic and I have hit the 2nd, but it doesn't sound very good and not at all like yours by any stretch of the imagination

[@marselmusic]

Once I want to learn this I want to recite "blow"

[@DJNA_Life]

my lowest sub harmonic is E0 which is off the piano and it's hard to control

[@DJNA_Life]

it's not east but it takes alot of practice to reach a note like this and my lowest note b0

[@vladlu6362]

@@DJNA_Life E0 is below audible... The lowest audible note is A0, at 20hz.

[@EdsEvilTwin]

@@vladlu6362 A0 is 27.5hz you can hear the range to the C0 (16.35hz) on a good pipe organ or Imperial Grand piano, the 20Hz figure is an average too everyone differs in their listening range.

[@vladlu6362]

@@EdsEvilTwin that was long ago. Hehe. It is the d0 the lowest note, and it's considered the 20hz because you can hear any frequency, it just has to be strong and loud enough, which most lower than 20hz aren't.

[@zTEXASBOYSX]

I'm lost on these last two tutorials...they aren't really necessarily showing you how to do it. I'm mean the first one helped with you saying to sing the note an octave up and then almost slipping back to vocal fry but not quite, and that's all I really have still 😕

[@davidlarson3905]

This last video was more toward some viewers that are farther ahead than the beginners - I didn't want then to get bored with a bunch of really basic stuff. What about this register are you having trouble with? Not sure of good ways to practice? I'd love to help out where I can.

[@zTEXASBOYSX]

+David Larson When you said in the first video about slipping into vocal fry, that's where I am. I know that can't be the only step to get the full sound. What's the next step? Like what do you do next? Gah this is impossible to explain.

[@davidlarson3905]

+Brady Kowaleski You practice slipping into the register using the "octave slip/jump" from chest to subharmonic until you get the "feeling" down. Once you get the muscle memory down, it's almost automatic for entering the register. Basically you just have to practice getting into the register. A lot. Many many days worth haha... It's like learning how to play a new instrument. Weird, sounds bad, seems impossible. But it's a gradual process that improves with consistency and practice. I'm sure you will get it. One aspect that you can't really "implement" in practice is the factor of time. It takes time to practice, yes. But, the time I'm referring to is rest. Your vocal muscles are getting a different type of workout with this technique, and they need time to grow and develop before they are as strong as the rest of your voice. Remember how it felt trying to re-learn how to control your new voice after puberty? I do 😅 Similar struggles haha

[@zTEXASBOYSX]

+David Larson But is that all you have to do, the vocal fry/octave slip? Do you just practice doing that over and over? Because I thought that there would be more steps than that. I mean when I try and do it I usually end up frying the note instead of going into the register. Is what you said in the first video it?

[@LukeDaPandaII]

For some reason, changing vowels helps me switch to subharmonics easier..

[@ze-kebeatbox]

How are you? David🥺😞😷

[@NicValSinger]

pure chest tone sounds much heavier and stronger, see what I'm talking about on my site nic val. appreciate the effort

[@Ignited]

I hit a C1 at 14 years old, i can easilly hit F1 (using subharmonics tho xd)

[@alejavier80]

@@itz.bradley_ Dick