How to speak SINDARIN - Tolkien's Fictional Language of Elves from Lord of the Rings

Рет қаралды 16,903

Lana Marie

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 49

@engelostermann7203 4 ай бұрын

Tolkien’s greatest mistake was never finishing the Black Speech of Mordor.

@iinc6290 2 ай бұрын

Im sort of glad it wasnt further developed because of how much of a sociolinguistics nightmare it already is. Tolkien has a lot of good but perhaps the worst part of his massive influence and impact on fantasy is the terrible socio-phonoaesthetic concept that certain sounds are inherently evil and used by evil speakers. This doesnt come from some true racism but is just an aftereffect of his usage of victorian perspectives on history and race and language. The existence of an "evil language" is unavoidably built on terrible, outdated linguistics and I'm glad it wasn't worked on more

@engelostermann7203 2 ай бұрын

@ I found your reply interesting and thought provoking. I have given it a thumbs up However I am a simple man and think the Black Speech of Mordor should have been finished because it sounds really cool.

@iinc6290 2 ай бұрын

@@engelostermann7203 this is fair lol

@carlinberg 2 ай бұрын

This is the most beautiful and unexpected interaction I've ever seen on the internet

@PhukYu2 25 күн бұрын

@@iinc6290 you mean logically likely correct perspectives ;) h8 xtians... but hey, that's a positive to him ;)

@SamiP-ik7vj Жыл бұрын

_Some reconstructed Sindarin verbs:_ *amlenna-* "to ascend" *cae(n)a-* (intr.) "to lie horizontally" *dadlenna-* "to descend" *dýchenia-* (tr.) "to misunderstand" *gondra-* (tr.) "to stone, cast rocks at" *gordhada-; rhangada-* (tr.) "to make difficult, hamper, hinder" *ⁿgortha-; fernada-* (tr.) "to kill" *heivia-/heinia-* (tr.) "to pray" (< KHYAM) *hesta-* (tr.) "to command, order, be in command of" *lhosta-* (tr.) "to whisper" *muinada-* (tr.) "to make dear or familiar; to get to know" *pethra-* (tr.) "to express with words; to lyricize" *pínada-* (tr.) "to make small" *saela(da)-* (tr.) "to wisen, educate" *tasta-/ethasta-* (tr.) "to point out, indicate" *tresta-* (tr.) "to pierce, penetrate"

@entwistlefromthewho Жыл бұрын

There's no difference between the la- and u- negation particles; it's simply that Tolkien kept changing his mind throughout his life and we don't really know which he settled on (if he did). Tolkien based a lot of Sindarin on Welsh, some of it is glaringly obvious: the Sindarin for 'city' is "minas" and in Welsh it's 'dinas'. Continuing on the Welsh theme... I've not idea how you missed the initial consonant mutations of Welsh being borrowed into Sindarin. The article (i/in) causes lenition or nasalization to the following noun: 'trann' (shire) - 'i Drann' (the Shire). Tolkien's mutations aren't fully understood but David Salo (who did the Elvish stuff for the movies) posits 5 types: soft, nasal, stop, liquid, and mixed; Welsh has 4: soft, spirant, nasal, mixed. Also, in "Im Arwen" isn't so much "I, Arwen" but "I am Arwen" - in both Sindarin and Quenya it is not only possible - but favourable - to omit the copula. In fact, the Sindarin copula is so rarely used that we don't have an entire conjugation paradigm for it!

@DigitalDNA Жыл бұрын

So there's another language based on Welsh. Now what? You gonna cry to death? I hope you do. Because nobody cares.

@Smoug 3 ай бұрын

I REALLY wish there were more YT videos with elvish content and learning videos

@WilliamLious 17 күн бұрын

As a note, thou of informal and you is formal.

@AurandelElaran Жыл бұрын

Hello. I lead Tolkienian Linguistics communities and contribute to Eldamo, one of your sources. I had emailed you to help you with this Sindarin video before it came, given the amount of complexities around the subject and especially the fact that internet is filled to the brim with outdated information, if not outright misinformation. Sadly you did return to the email, and as I feared, there are issues. I stopped the video at 6:20 to write this comment. That "pronouns" chart is not only full of made up ones, but also they go against the ones which were later published in Tolkien's posthumous notes (i.e. that chart was made in the early 2000s, but a document from 2010s showed some of Tolkien's actual Sindarin pronouns, debunking that chart). The issue is mostly with "ch" forms, where the nominative should rather be "ci" and the other forms should show "g..." instead (e.g. "gín", not "chín"). The chart is also very lacking in its categorisation of what pronoun plays what role. I should also add that, like the chart, the translations in the PJ films predate the publications of some linguistic texts by Tolkien, meaning that, once again, they are essentially "debunked" (in part or in full) by Tolkien himself, as is the fate of most translations and documents from before the 2010s. There are likely other issues in the video. I may edit this comment to talk about them as they come up. Edit 1 - About "Man agorech": Just like I addressed in the chart issue, the "-ch" suffix should be "-g" to say "you". This phrase, "man agorech", is in fact attested, and its translation was offered by the editors of the publication as "what have WE done", as can be seen in the "Túrin's Wrapper" page on your source Eldamo. The "-ch" in this document was an earlier variant of later "-nc" (and "n+c" can yield "ch" via mutation in other circumstances, so the old form reflects older rules). Edit 2 - About "La chebin estel anim": The negative particle in Sindarin with "√LA negation" would rather be "law", not "la" (cf. √BA, the ancient root for prohibitive words, with its Sindarin derivative "baw", not "ba"). The attested phrase with "ú-chebin" is a poor example here, as it complicates matters which require an explanation. Tolkien changed his mind back and forth between "√LA negation" and "√U negation". And when he translated "ú-" as "cannot", he was preferring √LA over √U for negation in general. At other times √U was the actual base of negation and did not mean "cannot", simply "not", just like what "law" should mean in that sentence. So whether "ú-" means "not" or "cannot" depends on whether we use √LA. With √LA, "ú- = cannot", otherwise, "ú- = not". There are good arguments both for an against both approaches, the linguistic community accepts both. Edit 3 - About "in edhil belig": The example confuses copular formations with adjective usage. So instead of "great Elves", we see "the Elves are great". And this also misses a crucial part of adjective usage, soft-mutation. Adjectives not only follow the nouns, but they are also mutated, and while your example "in edhil belig" is accurate for "the Elves [ARE] great", the regular formation with "the great Elves" would have been "in Edhil velig" - notice the mutation with B>V. (Also, the "dh" in "Edhel/Edhil" is pronounced with [ð], not "d-h".) Edit 4 - About "celegwain = swiftest": This is entirely wrong. "-wain" is not a superlative suffix, I am not sure where you read that, but it is most certainly wrong. And I should add that even using "an-" like English comparative "-er" is debatable. Edit 5 - About the tense charts: Once again that website with its charts are extremely outdated and debunked by Tolkien's own notes. Meanwhile your examples with "running" were all accurate, because you took them from Eldamo, and if you pause to compare the forms, you can see that forms in the examples vs. those in the old charts do not at all agree with each other. Edit 6 - About the translations in the films, I just want to reiterate that they are sadly outdated and thus mostly debunked.

@LanaMarie Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your comment and for the corrections!

@SamiP-ik7vj Жыл бұрын

_Some reconstructed -REN adjectives:_ *aradhren* "kingly", *Baladhren* "Valarin, of the Valar", *cenedren/cenethren* "visual", *eithellen* "source-", *emellen/nanethren* "motherly", *(e)nedhren* "central", *faeren* "spiritual", *fladren* "of the skin", *gobellen* "village-", *heledhren* "glassy, of glass", *iavathren* "autumnal", *ithillen* "lunar", *menellen* "of the sky", *nathallen* "of/for guests", *nelegren* "dental", *nemren* "nasal", *onodren* "entish, of the ents", *rochren* "equine", *rhondren* "bodily, corporeal", *sadren* "local", *tingren* "metallic", *torogren* "of trolls", *thonnathren* "fundamental"

@blake_ridarion Жыл бұрын

Been waiting for this one! 😄 I'm Finnish so I would definitely choose Quenya haha

@aidanhart9871 Жыл бұрын

You are fast becoming my favourite channel 😆 😅 I really enjoy your videos. You're so creative and artistic...plus always with a smile :) hope you and your cat are doing well.

@dronesclubhighjinks Жыл бұрын

Wow, you put so much research into this! I really enjoy these videos and thank you for making them! I hope you and your family and friends have a very happy Easter! 🙏💐🐰🐣🗿

@SamiP-ik7vj Жыл бұрын

The attested Sindarin superlative affix (for forming "-est, -iest" adjectives) is *ró-* (PE17 p. 147) which induces the Soft Mutation aka Lenition upon the adjective to which it is prefixed : *ró-* + *maed* = *róvaed* "most skillful".

@SamiP-ik7vj Жыл бұрын

I imagine that the passive verb paradigm in the 2000's Movie-Sindarin by David Salo was *prestar aen* "it is changing", *prestanner aen* "it was changed", *prestathar aen* "it shall be changed". . ?

@geoffreyburton2654 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the video I wish that more videos where like yours. When I next watch the Lord of the Rings this will make them more enjoyable.

@ScaricoOleoso 11 ай бұрын

I am in the middle of digesting your videos (he says, carefully policing his grammar 😉). I would love if you spent at least one video on the Tengwar. I find them particularly beautiful in their construction and how they invite me to consider the construction of sounds. 🙂

@lizkrohn6116 Жыл бұрын

A Video on Westron please

@شعرکوتاه-ع7ظ Ай бұрын

It was a useful explanation, madam. Thank you, good luck

@PleaseNThankYou Жыл бұрын

I love it all. I want it all. It's good that the Ring never came to me. Continue please! I have books of Sindarin-English; Vinyar Tengwar I-II-III; an Elvish writing book or two. I am ready Madame.

@drewferguson8324 10 ай бұрын

After familiarizing myself with all the books I’m attempting this for the first time. Wish me luck! I’ll need it….

@GoldenHeartIncorporated 9 ай бұрын

Same it’s beautiful sounding ❤

@APOLLOPATRIOT Жыл бұрын

I always enjoy your videos and your lovely outfits 👋 you always look beautiful 😎 keep up the great work !

@Flippotycoon4583 Жыл бұрын

Another great informative video :) I hope you are having a great Easter celebration Lana 🐰

@Hemmelka Жыл бұрын

Thanks and congratulation for your work! ^^

@antitangelshow4375 8 ай бұрын

THANK YOU. I WILL USE THIS WHEN I ENCOUNTER ONE REAL ELF IN OUR PROVINCE.

@cyberpunkdarren Жыл бұрын

She's got talents

@truk1236 Ай бұрын

Why you make no more video's about learning sindarin?

@Hemmelka Жыл бұрын

I picked sindarin before quenya but YEAH! Quenya is much more approachable ^^'

@LanguageBLOX1_Alt 9 ай бұрын

quenya quenya quenya quenya

@angealalexander Жыл бұрын

Hi, have you seen the show "Wheel of time" not sure if it could be similar to Rings of power in terms the fantasy aesthetic but if you get to watch it, I'd like to know your opinions/reviews when you get a chance

@LanaMarie Жыл бұрын

Thanks for commenting! I've known about this show for a while and it's been on my list, i might get to it at some point but no promises :)

@angealalexander Жыл бұрын

@@LanaMarie cool

@zeroworldcraft Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@sharoncrimm Жыл бұрын

Hi, I am a new viewer. I tried using the link in your description for the website you have been using but i got an error code. I don't know what I am doing wrong. If you have anything that might help me I'd appreciate it thanks.

@LanaMarie Жыл бұрын

hi! oh i see what the problem is - there are two links there, for two separate websites, but youtube must have collapsed the spacing. i fixed it, it should work now :)

@sharoncrimm Жыл бұрын

@@LanaMarie thanks